What do you think of the racial paragon classes?

[Deepbluediver]

To make a long(ish) story short(er), I was recently working on a homebrewed race and associated paragon class, and it lead me to rereading some of the racial paragon classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm) on the SRD. And to be honest, my initial opinion was that most of them are kind of lackluster.

They seem similar in some respects to prestige classes, and I know that judging the optimization level for this kind of thing is tricky, but they still look neither powerful, nor interesting. They all follow the same format of small but unique features or bonus feats for 2 levels, and then a +2 boost to one stat at 3rd level.
Even the paragon classes that grant spellcasting benefits seems like they wouldn't be much more than tier 4 or 5, because none of them grant full spellcasting.


Now, one of my biggest weaknesses is that I don't have much experience outside of core, especially with variant rules like this. I have some ideas for improving the paragon classes, and maybe requiring prerequisites to balance them out, but I would like to hear some other people's thoughts or suggestions first.

[Khatoblepas]

Human Paragon is a good choice some of the time, 2/3 spellcasting with a bonus feat and an ability bonus, and a permanent class skill (*coughcoughIaijutsuFocus*). I've seen it used a lot. It's the best racial paragon class (for the best race, apparently). There's only one reason not to take it, and that's the 2/3 spellcasting. Before Factotum became a thing, it was VERY popular.

Half-Orc paragon is a good way to get Rage as a lawful character.

I can see Gnome Paragon being used in a Bard/Sublime Chord Shadowcraft Mage, because of the +Cha and +3 CL to Illusion spells.

All the others... ain't so good. I've taken a level of Drow Paragon before as an alternative to a third level of Wizard, but most of the racial paragon classes suck.

I think for a good racial paragon class, you need a unique feature, not just tiny bonuses. The stat boost can stay, it doesn't affect things enough. Humans get their bonus feat and a permanent class skill and +2 to an ability of their choice. This is actually quite powerful (or at least tempting) compared to every other racial paragon class. I'm not sure how I'd fix them, though.

[eggs]

They're pretty vanilla filler levels. Human, Elf, Gnome, Kobold and Drow can be chucked into a lot of gishes without much notice; Half-Orc is decent on meleers. They're usually equivalent, if occasionally slightly better, than core classes in appropriate builds. I don't think any of those need touching (though Drow's level-1 casting progression bothers me to a certain degree).

The other ones are kind of crummy, and would generally benefit from partial casting progression (or other meaningfully-scaling advancement mechanic) in whatever classes are most fitting to the race.

[KillianHawkeye]

I like them. I have a character who is a Wizard (Abjurer) 1/Human Paragon 3/Master Specialist 2 getting ready to go into Abjurant Champion who is a lot of fun.

[LeshLush]

First level of Orc Paragon gets rid of Light Sensitivity, which can be nice for Orcs if that bothers you too much. It's too bad that the second level ability Elf Slayer is so pointless that sticking around for the Strength bonus isn't worthwhile.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Half-Orc Paragon 1 plus the feat Menacing Demeanor (RoD, CS) gives a +8 to Intimidate checks, and taking it at first level starts you off with four skill points, which is a huge upgrade for a (Zhentarim) Fighter build or similar. Half-Orc Paragon 2 grants Rage regardless of alignment, so you can put it on a lawful character, you can get Extra Rage to use it more often, and even swap it for Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ). Half-Orc Paragon 3 is +2 Str, which combined with all the other benefits makes it a superb filler choice for nearly any primary melee character, especially if you're just trying to get BAB to qualify for your favorite prestige class.

Halfling Paragon could be useful in a Master Thrower (CW) build, since you get to throw two daggers per attack and it adds +2 damage per dagger.

Human Paragon and Elf Paragon have a niche role in certain gish builds, though at an opportunity cost. Most of those builds will start out trying to get +4 BAB and 2nd level spells as quickly and painlessly as possible to dip one Spellsword level and then go into Abjurant Champion, so they'll start out Fighter 2/ Wizard 4 (or a similar Full BAB 2/ Caster 4). Instead of that, you could start Human or Elf Paragon 1/ Fighter 1/ Wizard 2/ Paragon 2, you'll get the same BAB, same spellcasting, slightly better saves, better HD, considerably better skill points, the ability bonus, and whatever else your chosen paragon class grants. The only reason not to start such a build this way is if you want the 2nd level of your full BAB class for whatever reason, such as gaining Dungeoncrasher for Fighter, or if you're using the build that starts out Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4, or if you're using Crusader and/or Warblade you can take the second level after Wizard for 2nd level maneuvers (but Warblade alone won't qualify you for Spellsword).

Drow Paragon can also be used for a gish build, otherwise it's only worth a single level dip.

None of the rest of them are even worth considering. Half-Dragon Paragon in particular is completely upstaged by a feat in Races of the Dragon.

[panaikhan]

I used Kobold Racial Paragon levels in my dragonheart mage build.
Offset some racial setbacks, continued sorcerer progression, gave some interesting features.
probably not the most optimal choice, but my books are limited and it fitted the flavour.

[Baalthazaq]

I use them all the time for NPCs.

I run a homebrew world where all of the ancients (the first elf, the first human, etc) are effectively their favoured class, the racial paragon, and the "Monster of Legend" template.

I basically said that all the firsts were immortal until "the fall", where their punishment was to endure forever to watch their offspring grow old and die (that's why they're still around 3K(ish) years on).

It's flavour, not power. If you think it's underpowered, stack on more levels of other stuff until they're as powerful as you want them to be for NPCs.

Otherwise, try convincing your DM to allow each of the paragon classes to further previous classes the same way Uncanny Trickster does. That's effectively what I did with my Gnome Wizard Illusionist (My DM allowed Wizard rather than bard progression), and my Human Bard (he allowed me to continue progressing Bardic Knowledge with it).

I used it with an Orc ranger too (was allowed to continue progressing animal companion for 2/3 levels).

Makes them all very attractive. Just don't abuse it by doing cheesy recursion tactics and it all works out well.

[Deepbluediver]

Thank you all for the feedback, it will be very helpful when/if I ever get around to redoing a few of these. After thoroughly reading all your replies, I have two followup thoughts.

It seems like the racial paragon classes that offer something unique (like Human) tend to be favored over the more generic versions. So what do you think of as a defining characteristic for the various races? For something like orcs, it seems to be "more barbarian". But are elves just better arcane casters? Or should they take the whole smart/graceful/pretty thing into account?


Secondly, I'm all for turning up the power level on these mini-prestige classes, but I also try to keep balance in mind, so I have a few thoughts about adding some sort of prerequisite. Something like (and this is for all paragon classes): Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha all 10+
The idea being that as a paragon of a particular race, you don't have any glaring weaknesses. If you want to offer any suggestions, or conversely anything you would stay away from, I'm all ears.

[Flickerdart]

Half-Elf Paragon makes an ok case for being a half-elf if you're just filling levels before hitting a PrC - +2 ability score and a feat is nice, as is the +2 to Charisma skills (which you're going to like even better after going into Human Paragon for another +2, another feat and Iaijutsu Focus). If your PrC grants spells, you can take the dead levels early and only eat a single level lost for spell progression.