My Magus - ability score placement?

[Brock Samson]

Ok guys, I'm still trying to make my first ever Magus (2nd ever PF character).

I've decided to play a Strix, a race with wings (60 ft fly speed - average), and they get a +2 Dex, -2 Cha.

Thanks to our way of rolling, my stats are: 18, 17, 15, 14, 12, 9. I've read the Magus Handbook and know you can either go a Str-based route, or a Dex-based route, but I've got some pretty darn good stats (and our DM might be giving us 2 more points to place where we desire).

So I'm thinking either:
Dex 18 (20)
Int 17
Con 15
Str 14 (allows Power Attack)
Wis 12
Cha 9 (7)
And going the Dervish route, focusing on Dex. Obvious choices for feats being Weapon Finesse, Dervish Dance, Power Attack, Intensify Spell (Shocking Grasp), and grab the 2 traits the lower Metamagic costs for one spell if my DM gives the go for both. Then just go to town.

Alternately:
Str 18
Int 17
Con 15
Dex 14 (16)
Wis 12
Cha 9 (7)
Then just Power Attack away with my Intensified shocking grasps.

So I'd have a slighlty lower to-hit going the Str route, and damage I suppose, but saving 2 feats, and still have the points to end up with a +3 so I could ultimatley take advantage of Mithril Full Plate even.

But going Dex route at only level 8 I could have a +8 Modifier (w/ +4 item), and that means Initiative and Acrobatics and Fly checks.

Anywho, what are peoples thoughts?

And I keep looking through all the archetypes, I'd hate to get rid of Spell Recall but nearly all of them do it. The only one that doesn't is the Blackblade one I believe, which... well, what are people's opinions on that archetype?

[Togath]

Which type of weaponry do you prefer?, that would help decide whether to go dervish or soemthign else, though with strix dervish might be better, as it boosts your flying ability

[klemdakherzbag]

I would personally go the first score distribution, but place the 14 into Wisdom, once you start Dervish Dancing with a scimitar (+Dex to attack and damage) the Power Attack really wont be a big thing (opinion). Also dont forget to take Arcane Mark (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/arcane-mark) and get extra attack even after you run out of Shocking Grasp. I wouldnt trade Spell Recall unless you are willing to invest in lots of Pearls of Power.

Are you planning on stacking the two (maybe) metamagic traits on one spell?

[watchwood]

I considered a dex build with my own magus, though I eventually decided to go for a strength build and save the feats for other things. If you're going that route, you should definitely consider the Kensai archetype. You lose a lot of the secondary Magus abilities, but gain a ton of stuff from the Duelist class that will make you into a juggernought powerhouse.

[Togath]

I would personally go the first score distribution, but place the 14 into Wisdom, once you start Dervish Dancing with a scimitar (+Dex to attack and damage) the Power Attack really wont be a big thing (opinion). Also dont forget to take Arcane Mark (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/arcane-mark) and get extra attack even after you run out of Shocking Grasp. I wouldnt trade Spell Recall unless you are willing to invest in lots of Pearls of Power.

Are you planning on stacking the two (maybe) metamagic traits on one spell?

how do you get an extra attack with arcane mark?

[QuidEst]

how do you get an extra attack with arcane mark?


Spell Combat
…As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty)…


Spellstrike
…At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell…

It's a bit cheesy, and you look like Zorro, but Arcane Mark is a cantrip with "touch" range and unlimited casting. Cast it every round and you get a free attack.


As for the OP, Dervish works better with DEX-based. I like the spare feats of STR-based, personally, since that lets me get an Improved Familiar or something fun like that.

[Togath]

ah, that makes sense, i hadn't realsied it was a touch range spell

[Baroncognito]

Str 14 (allows Power Attack)
You're taking weapon finesse already, so you might as well take Piranha Strikes instead of Power attack.

[Daftendirekt]

...They work exactly the same in this instance, and he doesn't want his STR to be too low otherwise he can't carry his gear and armor.

IMO, though, lower the str to 13, because power attack only requires that much. You don't care about the higher modifier because dex replaces it for damage.


It's a bit cheesy, and you look like Zorro, but Arcane Mark is a cantrip with "touch" range and unlimited casting. Cast it every round and you get a free attack.


I've been playing my magus for a while now, and I still don't get how people interpret it this way. Spell Combat functions like TWF except that your off-hand weapon attack is actually a spell being cast. You don't get to toss out a touch-ranged cantrip and suddenly get an extra attack out of nowhere.

[watchwood]

I would personally go the first score distribution, but place the 14 into Wisdom, once you start Dervish Dancing with a scimitar (+Dex to attack and damage) the Power Attack really wont be a big thing (opinion). Also dont forget to take Arcane Mark (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/arcane-mark) and get extra attack even after you run out of Shocking Grasp. I wouldnt trade Spell Recall unless you are willing to invest in lots of Pearls of Power.

Are you planning on stacking the two (maybe) metamagic traits on one spell?

Level 1 Pearls of Power are dirt cheap, and enough of them will give you effectively unlimited castings of your level 1 spells. Even more ridiculously so if you take Craft Wonderous Item. (Pathfinder's crafting rules are stupidly OP, if properly abused)

[Togath]

...They work exactly the same in this instance, and he doesn't want his STR to be too low otherwise he can't carry his gear and armor.

IMO, though, lower the str to 13, because power attack only requires that much. You don't care about the higher modifier because dex replaces it for damage.



I've been playing my magus for a while now, and I still don't get how people interpret it this way. Spell Combat functions like TWF except that your off-hand weapon attack is actually a spell being cast. You don't get to toss out a touch-ranged cantrip and suddenly get an extra attack out of nowhere.

ok, so I was reading that part right. now I sort of wonder how the thing with arcane mark started.

[Crasical]

I've been playing my magus for a while now, and I still don't get how people interpret it this way. Spell Combat functions like TWF except that your off-hand weapon attack is actually a spell being cast. You don't get to toss out a touch-ranged cantrip and suddenly get an extra attack out of nowhere.

It works like this, basically. A 2nd level magus uses Spell Combat to TWF in the method you describe, striking with his weapon in one hand and then using his off hand to cast Arcane Mark. Ordinarily the magus would be entitled to a free touch attack to hit with the arcane mark, but the magus has spellstrike....


Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks.

So, instead of making a free melee touch attack, you stab the target instead.

[Brock Samson]

Arcane Mark totally does work, it IS a melee touch attack spell, even if it delivers nothing harmful NORMALLY.... Yeah, it'll be one of my always cantrips.

I was unaware of Pirana strike. That would allow me to tank my strength more and buff up wisdom a little bit.

However the Strength based build isn't bad either. With both a good Str and a good Dex I'd have a good CMD, and when I couldn't spell I could always two-hand. aaaahhh I dunno. Both seem like good ideas. What does it amount to at levels 4, 8, and 12? If I go Strength and start with 18, at level 4 I might have a +2 Item, for 20. At level 8, with 2 stat points put in and +4 item if lucky, then I'll have 24 Str, +7 to attack from Str, 2 open feats could mean Weapon Focus, for +8 to attack, and another feat. Dex focused I'd start with 20, so my attack bonus is the same, damage is about equivalent except in circumstances where I'm two-hand-fighting. Which... ok, probably shouldn't be about ever. Lower or higher Initiative seems a big difference, but that extra feat could go into Improved Initiative of course....

[Daftendirekt]

It works like this, basically. A 2nd level magus uses Spell Combat to TWF in the method you describe, striking with his weapon in one hand and then using his off hand to cast Arcane Mark. Ordinarily the magus would be entitled to a free touch attack to hit with the arcane mark, but the magus has spellstrike....



So, instead of making a free melee touch attack, you stab the target instead.

Ah. I guess that makes sense now. It is incredibly cheesy however. I won't ever do it with my Magus, and were I DMing, I wouldn't allow it.

[watchwood]

Ah. I guess that makes sense now. It is incredibly cheesy however. I won't ever do it with my Magus, and were I DMing, I wouldn't allow it.

Why not? It's not like it's a Locate City Bomb, it's an actual class feature.

[Brock Samson]

Do people think it's Cheesy because Arcane Mark doesn't do damage? Or because it's a Cantrip and thus unlimited? (I'm assuming the latter).

If there was a Cantrip that did 1d3 points of damage on a touch attach you'd be the same result.

Actually, isn't that a Magus Arcana, Close Proximity, something like that, that would let you use Ray of Frost/Acid as a melee touch attack, thus allowing your Spell Combat/Strike?

[Daftendirekt]

I dunno... the way I do it with my magus is spell combat to throw up a buff and then use my weapon attack to spellstrike something.

[Novawurmson]

I mean, there's always the close range arcana (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/magus-arcana/paizo---magus-arcana/close-range-ex) and Ray of Cold. It's just delaying the inevitable to not allow Arcane Mark to work.

[Crasical]

I dunno... the way I do it with my magus is spell combat to throw up a buff and then use my weapon attack to spellstrike something.

That's certainly one way to do it. Focusing on touch attacks to deliver through Spellstrike is another way of building a magus, and having a cantrip that you can use with spellstrike is a nice fallback measure if you end up running out of other slots.

[Warlok]

I dunno... the way I do it with my magus is spell combat to throw up a buff and then use my weapon attack to spellstrike something.

Not sure if Im interpreting that correctly, but it seems he is implying his magus uses spell combat to cast a buff spell, and then uses spellstrike to deliver another spell all in the same round. You cannot cast two spells in one round with spell combat and spellstrike used together.

Using spellstrike and spell combat in concert allows you to: cast one spell with a range of touch along with a free melee attack (at -2) to deliver that spell, an additional attack (or attacks based on your BAB, all at -2), and a 5 ft step... in any order.

So I could cast shocking grasp as a spellstrike, 5ft step into melee combat, deliver the shocking grasp with a free melee attack (@-2 when made in concert with spell combat) granted by the spellstrike, and then take all my normal melee attacks granted by my BAB (@-2 from spell combat).

Spellstrike does not give you a free spell, just a free melee attack to deliver a touch spell (replacing the free touch attack normally granted from the spell.)

Spell combat doesnt give you a free spell either, just the ability to cast a spell and make an attack in the same round. So combining spellstrike and spell combat adds no additional spells per round, only melee attack(s).

[Psyren]

1 extra weapon attack, especially one that doesn't deliver actual spell damage, is not going to break anything. I'd allow it.

He still has all the other spell combat control to keep him in check, such as needing to cast defensively or provoke, needing to take an attack penalty for the concentration check bonus etc.

[Warlok]

1 extra weapon attack, especially one that doesn't deliver actual spell damage, is not going to break anything. I'd allow it.

He still has all the other spell combat control to keep him in check, such as needing to cast defensively or provoke, needing to take an attack penalty for the concentration check bonus etc.

Yeah, I agree. When playing a Magus, I find myself Spellstriking far more often than spell combating at early levels. Those cast defensively checks are not a slam dunk unless you grabbed Combat Casting as your lvl 1 feat. With spellstrike, you can cast the spell well out of range and deliver it on the next round with Spellstrike. What I try to do is set up at least one round of the combat where I start the round a 5ft step away, so I can successfully use Spell Combat and spellstrike in concert without the cast defensively check. I use the vanish spell to help accomplish this (it lasts me 3 rounds due to a trait I selected).

It's that ability to deal a critical hit with a weapon and a spell through one attack, using the weapon's crit range. That's the attractive part of spellstrike. At 5th level, most smart Magus builds will have a weapon crit range of 15-20.

[Alefiend]

You're taking weapon finesse already, so you might as well take Piranha Strikes instead of Power attack.

Only if you're using a light weapon. Not just a finessable weapon, a light one. Granted, you can probably do enough bonus damage as a magus this way that the base weapon doesn't really matter, but I felt I had to make the distinction.

[Talya]

The Arcane Mark trick isn't cheesy. It's basically giving them the same benefit as Two Weapon Fighting, only their taking the extra attack with their main hand that generates an AOO or requires a defensive casting check.

[Psyren]

And they provoke AoO for the privilege on top of it. Though at least they don't need to take the feat, and count as having their other hand free for things like Kensai.