Charm Person vs. Detect Thoughts...and Misdirection vs. Zone of Truth

[Palanan]

I'm running a short mystery segment in a larger campaign, involving a beguiler/spymaster who's being hunted for a murder which he most definitely committed. He's an NPC, hiding among other NPCs, who might be smoked out by the PCs' next move.

The PCs are planning to use Zone of Truth to question several suspects at once (the beguiler among them), along with Detect Thoughts running in the background. Since the suspects are officers on board a ship, they'll be ordered to answer all questions put to them. So, two questions here:


1. If the beguiler uses Charm Person against the cleric who's casting the spells, can he convince her to keep quiet about whatever thoughts she might pick up?

2. And, if the beguiler casts Misdirection on a sea chest or something, would this deflect the effects of Zone of Truth? (This seems a little sketchy, but worth a try.)

3. Aaaaannd, if you were a beguiler/spymaster caught in this situation, what would you do?

[Lapak]

Annoyingly, Magic Mouth isn't on the Beguiler list. But it's enough of a go-to for dodging simple question-and-answer sessions that it's worth investing in a wand or scroll and getting some use out of UMD.

Cast a series of Magic Mouth spells on yourself, using your own voice, with the mouth appearing high on your chest under your clothes. The various Mouths respond to slightly different verbal triggers - ('hmm', 'umm,' 'let me think...') to fire off the appropriate statement ('Yes,' 'no', 'I was on shore leave at the time,' 'I've already told you that,') You'll want multiple castings and triggers for 'yes' and 'no.'

Go 'hmm,' mime along with the Mouth so people don't notice it's not you speaking, and (despite all appearances to the contrary) you're not actually lying. Zone of Truth doesn't keep you from THINKING lies, just speaking them, so you might need a Bluff check or something against the Detect Thoughts to stay on message - just plain 'hmm' and not 'ok, it's 'hmm' to say no and 'umm' to say 'yes', let's say.

[GeekGirl]

First how likely is it that he fails his will save?

Also even if he failing there is a difference between telling the truth and answering the question they asked. As long as he can dodge the real answer he may be ok, but that take a certain kind of person to do... I probably couldn't. this may work as a more mundane solution.

[Palanan]

Well, he wasn't planning to be caught in this situation, so he won't have anything customized to help him out specifically. He's been counting on bluffing with his cover identity and otherwise being lost in the crowd.

Also, he's got a level in spymaster, which gives undetectable alignment. I don't know if that by itself would be enough to protect against Detect Thoughts, and I'm thinking not.

And his will save is +7, which isn't great.

[Lapak]

Given the situation and that he's already well caught up in it, don't be afraid to go ahead and let them smoke him out. If the party takes the smart action and methodically cuts off realistic options for the villain to get away with something, they should get rewarded for their prudence. (I was thinking more in terms of planning ahead for this eventuality with my suggestion.)

If the villain (or your execution of him) left vulnerabilities, well, sometimes bad guys do stupid things! It's completely ok for that to happen.

[Roguenewb]

Whats the level here? Judging from that save, like 8?

A beguiler in combat can be *very* hard to pin down. Invisibility at this level can go a long way. Misdirection is a cute option. But legion of sentinels->invisibility->obscuring mist is really good way to get lost. Follow up by murdering a crewman (in a less detected way) and using that mundane Disguise skill to be more ready for the next encounter.

[Glimbur]

1. If the beguiler uses Charm Person against the cleric who's casting the spells, can he convince her to keep quiet about whatever thoughts she might pick up?


Charm Person makes them your friend. Would the cleric cover up a murder that one of her friends did?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Roguenewb
Follow up by murdering a crewman (in a less detected way) and using that mundane Disguise skill to be more ready for the next encounter.

Yup, that's about what I had in mind.

He's level 7 (good call there) and I do worry he's a bit much for a small 4th-level party. He's done some clever things and some not-so-clever things...and while the goal of the mystery is for the party to identify and neutralize him, I also want to play the beguiler smart, cunning and ruthless.

The beguiler is involved in some commercial espionage, so he has no intention of toying with the party; he wants to finish his assignment and leave. But first he needs to survive this question-and-answer session...and I have no idea what'll happen next.


Originally Posted by Glimbur
*good point*

Good point.

:smallwink:

[Slipperychicken]

1. If the beguiler uses Charm Person against the cleric who's casting the spells, can he convince her to keep quiet about whatever thoughts she might pick up?


Let's look at Charm Person, shall we?


Charm Person
This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target’s attitude as friendly). If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.

The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell. You must speak the person’s language to communicate your commands, or else be good at pantomiming.

First, the Beguiler would need to get the Cleric to fail her Will save against Charm Person. Then, if the Cleric would ordinarily let her Trusted Friend and Ally get away with murder, she probably would let the Beguiler slide (plus the Cleric would need to lie about the Detect Thoughts result, incurring Bluff checks). If that is not something the Cleric would ordinarily do, the Beguiler must succeed on a Charisma check to give the Cleric an order to do so.

[Palanan]

Okay, the points on Charm Person are well taken. That won't help him here.

Also, I'm guessing that since Zone of Truth is enchantment rather than divination, it won't be affected by Misdirection. Double wash.


Originally Posted by Lapak
Given the situation and that he's already well caught up in it, don't be afraid to go ahead and let them smoke him out. If the party takes the smart action and methodically cuts off realistic options for the villain to get away with something, they should get rewarded for their prudence.

Very true, and I'd meant to comment on this before. I'll be glad if the PCs can smoke him out...I just want them to work for it, and I want to play the beguiler as smart as possible.

Any other suggestions on what he might do? He still needs to get to his espionage objective, and the PCs are planning to coat the floor of that cabin with a fine layer of flour, to highlight any footprints. (They know they're up against something invisible, they're just not sure what.)

If only beguilers had Gust of Wind...

[Slipperychicken]

Glibness could pull him through this (3rd level spell, on the Beguiler list. Pretty sure he has it by now). For magic "that would detect your lies or force you to speak the truth", it forces them to make a CL check with DC [15+CL], or else the magic does not detect your lies or force you to speak the truth. It works against Zone of Truth, and you can make the argument that Detect Thoughts would "detect his lies" so that might force a CL check, too.

Your PCs are 4th level, so they need to roll a 17 or higher to beat the Glibness (and they don't know if they won or not). With a bit of CL-pumping, it's literally impossible for them to make that check. His Bluff check should be astronomical (low-mid forties?), for what that's worth. He could say a vile enchantress (one of the other crew perhaps) planted the incriminating memories in his head or possessed him, and is a master deceiver with Glibness. Under a ZoT with an impossibly-high bluff check, the PCs would have a hard time disbelieving him.


He could try casting Charm Person on himself (or Dominate if he has it) and act like the crew-member he's framing is his bestest friend ever (obviously, he'll use Glibness to buff his Bluff to high heaven). Then the PCs detect he's under the influence of that magic via Sense Motive, and dismiss him as a suspect.

[Palanan]

Glibness sounds great, but the beguiler has a couple of non-casting levels in his build (spymaster, etc.) so he only has access to second-level spells. Your strategy would be perfect otherwise.

As it happens, he's already been making extensive use of Silent Image and Dancing Lights to convince the ship's crew that a ghost has grim designs on their voyage. The PCs, clever and slightly genre-savvy, are convinced it's an illusion, but they're not sure who's casting or why.

[Psyren]

I can't help much with the rest of it, but ToM has a sidebar on Detect Thoughts you might find interesting:


Reading a creature's surface thoughts reveals not only the immediate thought in its mind, but also some general information that it might know. If the target fails its saving throw, the mind reader should learn a brief description of its emotional state in broad terms, such as "bored and hungry," "nervous and alert," "angry and plotting," skeptical and cautious," and so on. The mind reader can also determine the target's awareness of other allies and enemies in the vicinity.

"Immediate thought in its mind" is the biggest problem for the NPC from an interrogation perspective - all the PCs have to do is use the old "don't think about elephants" trick. The emotional state can also reveal a lie - e.g. "nervous and alert" prior to lying, "angry" if a lie is discovered, or "relieved" if a lie is believed. The allies/enemies part might kick in if he had any accomplices, or worse, if he suspects that anyone would turn him in (giving the PCs probable cause to question that individual.)

[Jack_Simth]

I'm running a short mystery segment in a larger campaign, involving a beguiler/spymaster who's being hunted for a murder which he most definitely committed. He's an NPC, hiding among other NPCs, who might be smoked out by the PCs' next move.

The PCs are planning to use Zone of Truth to question several suspects at once (the beguiler among them), along with Detect Thoughts running in the background. Since the suspects are officers on board a ship, they'll be ordered to answer all questions put to them. So, two questions here:


1. If the beguiler uses Charm Person against the cleric who's casting the spells, can he convince her to keep quiet about whatever thoughts she might pick up?

2. And, if the beguiler casts Misdirection on a sea chest or something, would this deflect the effects of Zone of Truth? (This seems a little sketchy, but worth a try.)

3. Aaaaannd, if you were a beguiler/spymaster caught in this situation, what would you do?

Let's see...
1) Sure, although if it's not something the Cleric would normally go along with (military person, up in the ranks a bit, avoiding orders?) then there's an opposed Charisma check required. Plus: Do you REALLY think you're going to have a Cleric fail a WILL SAVE? Sure, it can happen, but it's remarkably unreliable.

2) Not at all. Misdirection affects Divinations that gather information. Zone of Truth is an Enchantment that (if you fail the save...) prevents you from speaking deliberate falsehoods. Neither has any bearing on the other at all. Oh yes, and as an Area spell, the caster doesn't know if anyone in the area made the save, or not (that's left for targeted spells, such as Discern Lies - which IS a divination, which specifically reads auras...). Might work on the Detect Thoughts, though, if you really think that the Cleric will fail a WILL SAVE.

3) The right mindset can bend the truth until it is no longer recognizable without actually breaking it. It takes a fairly well-trained interrogator (whom your DM almost certainly isn't) to bypass a skilled truth bender. Or, you know, just hope to beat the saves (both Detect Thoughts and Zone of Truth permit Will saves - which is a good save, for a Beguiler) and then avoid thinking of pink elephants by choosing to picture a plaid one (Yes, when someone tells me not to think about pink elephants, I do so by thinking of a plaid elephant, occasionally a plaid rhino. It's an even more ridiculous image).

Also: How far into Spymaster are you? It seems like it should have some useful class features for just such situations as this.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Protection from X -may- block zone of truth by a certain reading.

Zone of truth forces you to avoid deliberate lies. That sounds like excersizing mental control over you to me.

It's comparable to charm person making you act friendly toward another character. Though charm person does have the option to give an order whereas zone of truth does not.

[Palanan]

Here's a thought: can the beguiler simply use Disguise Self to create an illusion of himself, but one which mouths the correct words inside the Zone of the Truth instead of the self-incriminating replies?

It wouldn't do anything about his verbal replies, but he can mumble those.

[Psyren]

Protection from X -may- block zone of truth by a certain reading.

Zone of truth forces you to avoid deliberate lies. That sounds like excersizing mental control over you to me.

No, because the caster cannot direct your actions. You have to be truthful, but you can say anything ("Bananas are yellow!" "I like donuts!" "My pen is missing!") so long as it is the truth - you don't actually have to answer any questions asked of you. Therefore, this is not "ongoing mental control."


Therefore, they may avoid answering questions to which they would normally respond with a lie, or they may be evasive as long as they remain within the boundaries of the truth.

[Palanan]

This is the issue the PCs are facing--they can ensure that whatever is spoken will be the truth, but they can't compel anyone to speak. They're relying on the fact that everyone being questioned is an officer and will be ordered to respond...with the hope being that the guilty party will be detected by his silence.

And that's the weakness the beguiler is looking to exploit. If Disguise Self won't work, he'll have to fall back on pure sophistry, which may be his strongest card to play.

[Kelb_Panthera]

No, because the caster cannot direct your actions. You have to be truthful, but you can say anything ("Bananas are yellow!" "I like donuts!" "My pen is missing!") so long as it is the truth - you don't actually have to answer any questions asked of you. Therefore, this is not "ongoing mental control."

I'd say that it's ambiguous enough for a DM to call it either way. Mental control isn't a defined game term so it's subject to interpretation.

[Varil]

How many suspects are being interrogated? Maybe the Beguiler could try to charm the other suspects instead, and force as many as he can(probably via charisma checks) to simply refuse to speak.

Or use the mundane disguise skill to make someone else look like him and charm them into going to the interrogation for him? Assuming the PCs don't think to ask "What's your name", the decoy won't even have to lie any. "Did you murder him?!" "Nope."

This depends on nobody actually recognizing this guy's voice off-hand, though, or knowing him well enough to recognize if his body language is wrong.

[Deophaun]

The beguiler may rightfully feel cornered at the moment. That makes him dangerous. I would expect him to start a distraction of some sort in a bid to escape (read: hide) or frame someone else. If the ship suddenly catches on fire, and he creates an illusion of himself dying in the flames, it could give him an out. Similarly, he could kill suspect #1 on the party's list, hide the body, and then craft an illusion that shows the suspect rendezvousing with another vessel. Whatever, he has to act before the party interrogates him.

[Palanan]

Well, we had our next session this afternoon, in which the beguiler was well and truly cornered--and slipped away, and then was cornered again, and almost slipped away again. I'll explain:

--No, no, there's too much. I'll summarize:

The beguiler is a spymaster on a mission of commercial espionage; his cover identity as one of the ship's officers gives him access to just about anywhere in the ship. This morning he was brought into the great cabin with the other officers, and after the cleric cast Zone of Truth, they were asked a number of questions en masse.

The beguiler managed to make his will save, but he couldn't count on that ahead of time, so he charmed one of the other officers and used him as social cover. The cleric also had Detect Thoughts running, but was only able to sense the beguiler's cover identity, although she did have a strong feeling that something was amiss. Detect Evil also didn't turn up much, because the beguiler is a cool neutral.

He came in for sharper questioning after the rest of the officers had been dismissed; but by this time the Zone of Truth had faded away, and he was able to bluff his way along. His cover identity is a hopeless, bumbling flake, and it's easy for everyone to dismiss him as a harmless nonentity. The cleric actually had a second Zone of Truth prepared, which they were about to apply to the beguiler for individual questioning, but the party decided to pursue other leads.

Off the hook! But then he went back for more:

He still hadn't accomplished his mission--and in his profession, one failed mission can utterly ruin a reputation that's taken years to develop. He still needed to get at something in the great cabin, and he was on a tight deadline, so he made a final, last-ditch attempt to get what he'd been hired for.

Unfortunately for him, the PCs had set an ambush, knowing that some entity had been after the item in the cabin. The halfling swashbuckler hid in the quarter-gallery, while the cleric and the elven archer waited in the captain's sleeping-quarters. The beguiler, unfortunately, didn't scout as thoroughly as he should have, a combination of wishful thinking and deadline pressure.

He cast Sleep on the marine sentry standing outside, then went invisible and quietly opened the door to the great cabin...only to see flour, of all things, scattered in thin drifts across the deck of the cabin. The PCs nearly caught him here once before; they know they're facing something invisible, and the halfling has taken to sifting flour at strategic points. It'll be impossible to walk anywhere in the cabin without leaving footprints.

The beguiler smiles. He casts Spider Climb and moves along the ceiling, allowing the door to quietly close below him.

No footprints. The PCs are baffled.

The beguiler is grooving his way across the ceiling; he's hearing theme music from Mission Impossible. He climbs down the wall above the target item, and slowly reaches out to work the simple latch. It jiggles.

The halfling swashbuckler explodes out of the quarter-gallery, slicing at the air in front of the item where he expects an invisible person to be standing. The beguiler beats his initiative by a mile and is already out of range. In the adjoining cabin, the cleric and the archer both roll natural ones for initiative.

So far, the beguiler's got nothing to worry about:

But he wants to cover his escape and make one more try at the target item. Still invisible, clinging to the beam above the deck, he casts Obscuring Mist.

The halfling, not missing a beat, slices ferociously at the mist above the item: nothing. In the next cabin, the elven archer finally gets it together and kicks in the door to the great cabin, only to find himself surrounded by billowing mist.

The beguiler takes a cool pleasure at this. So much for the vaunted "specialists" who had been closing in on him. A little more misdirection and the race is run.

And then the cleric comes to the open door behind the elven archer, sees nothing but dense mist and vague outlines, and casts Light of Lunia.

Oh bugger.

She'd cast it intending to be ready for a target...but the spell's immediate effect is a bright, silvery radiance. Inside a roomful of mist.

Standing directly in front of her, the elven archer sees his shadow cut a path away through the mist...and, positioned right next to the beguiler's target, he just manages to see another shadow through the mist, almost directly above him.

He punches an arrow up through the beguiler's side. Suddenly this is no longer fun. The cleric grants Snake's Swiftness to the archer, who instantly follows up with another shot.

Really time to leave. The beguiler casts Expeditious Retreat and hotfoots it across the ceiling. His shadow is lost in the mist, at least to the elven archer, but the halfling catches a glimpse of him in the far corner, above the cushioned seat that runs below the broad stern windows.

It really should've called for a skill trick, but it was too hilarious not to let him try. The halfling made a mightly leap onto the cushions, a mighty bounce from there, and described a soaring arc towards the cabin's low ceiling, his rapier aimed high above.

He hit. The beguiler's really starting to bleed.

Now what?!

As the halfling drops down, and before the archer can get any closer, the beguiler scuttles out the same door he'd entered, hurting badly and trying to survive. As he races down the companionway to the next deck, he can hear the halfling and the archer in hot pursuit behind him.

And he's leaving great splashes of blood all over the deck. How convenient.

Still invisible, still bleeding, still moving very fast, the beguiler plows through a group of seamen in a mad dash forward, towards the bow of the ship, where he'd already planned a contingency escape. But first, to delay his pursuers, he pauses just long enough to cast a scroll of Summon Monster.

The halfling and the elven archer come up short as a massive, rank-smelling crab clumps its heavy way towards them through the dim confines of the lower deck. The archer lines up a double shot--and after the first arrow his bowstring snaps, taking him out of the action. The cleric misses a shot with Light of Lunia, and then the halfling takes the fight to the crab, as the sailors stampede across to the far side of the deck.

The crab is a carbuncle-encrusted monstrosity with giant rending claws. It tries, it really does. But the halfling swashbuckler is too nimble, too daring, and just too handsome to lose this fight. With a cold iron rapier and a silver dagger, he fends off its clumsy attacks, carves great gashes into its claws, and then springs at the head of the weakened beast, plunging his blades between its crooked eyes and riding them down again, very Halfling Unleashed. The sailors erupt into cheering.

It only lasted a few seconds, but the crab did accomplish its purpose.

The end in sight:

Meanwhile, the beguiler is promising himself he will never, ever complain about the price of a healing potion again. Why struggle with a wand--finicky, unpredictable--when you can just drink a lovely, lovely potion?

He drinks two; he needs them. After oiling his way out of the interrogation, and coming so close to his target, his day is suddenly going steeply south.

Down in the lowermost deck, in the fore platform just above the hold, he manages to make his way unseen to a small forward compartment, where he knows the ship's second leftenant can be found at this time of day. One Whelm and one Disguise Self later, a rather more composed second leftenant casually mounts the fore companionway, heading all the way topside. Climbing through the next deck, he can already hear the first leftenant yelling at the men to clean up the mess the halfling left.

The beguiler hurts, but just a few moments more and he'll be fine. The halfling and his affiliates are off somewhere else, chasing false leads; so much the better. Time to get away, and live to skulk another day.

Gaining the deck, not caring about the rain, he orders several hands to hoist the jolly-boat over the side, citing Captain's orders. These are strange orders, the sea too heavy for small boats, but the second leftenant is well-liked and the Captain's orders aren't to be questioned. The beguiler watches from the rail as the small boat is swung out over the side and lowered to the ocean's rough surface.

Over the rail:

--And there on the foc'sle are his three pursuers, somehow alerted to him; the halfling calls down to the hands to stop lowering the boat. "Captain's orders," the beguiler calls out confidently, as he carefully begins to descend.

A few seconds more, a few precious seconds of hesitation and uncertainty on the deck above, while the halfling calls at the confused sailors to belay and raise the boat again. Soaked and wounded, wearing a hastily borrowed face, it's not the way the beguiler had imagined leaving the ship; but his sore feet touch the jolly-boat's planks, he pitches unsteadily down, and all he has to do now is release the guy-ropes.

--Two arrows punch into him, knocking him backward and down, and through the fresh agony he sees the elven archer perched on the rail, already drawing his bow again, the halfling standing beside him issuing orders. With an effort as painful as the embedded arrows, the beguiler focuses for just an instant, and has the satisfaction of seeing the foc'sle explode in a billowing wash of golden dust, glittering-bright through the steady rain.

And then...

And then the game store was closing down for the night, so we had to leave it there. Both the halfling swashbuckler and the elven archer failed their will saves, so the session ended with their world flashing golden and going dark. I don't think the halfling made a single will save all day.

Our last couple of sessions were almost entirely roleplaying, so this was a welcome dose of action. Much fun and hilarity were had by all.



DM Notes:

This is the very first time I've ever run a beguiler, so I probably didn't play him up to his full potential. I wanted him to be crafty, intelligent, and such a convincing actor that no one would ever suspect him; but I also didn't want him to be so clever and prepared that the PCs wouldn't have a chance.

The turning point came when the cleric cast Light of Lunia, and I realized that her brilliant silvery light would cut shadows through the mist like sunlight across a range of thunderclouds. After that, the PCs were convinced they had the beguiler cornered, and he just barely escaped from the great cabin. Even so, they would have run him down, except they were sidetracked for a few precious moments, which gave him enough time to open up a lead, summon his +1 crab of delaying, and get far enough below to assume a new identity.

In fact, he would've slipped completely away, since the PCs were sidetracked once more after taking down the crab; they went back to the great cabin again, thinking their adversary might have circled around for yet another try at his target item. Instead, he was whelming and disguising down in the hold, and they remained several crucial minutes behind him until I sent a midshipman to warn them that something strange was happening up on deck.

So, we'll start the next session with half the party blinded on deck, the beguiler severely wounded in the boat below, with only one first-level and one second-level spell remaining. If anyone has any suggestions for what he can do next, he'll weakly thank you from the bottom of the boat.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Woof, that's a well run session from where I'm sitting.

The only suggestion I can think of is to drop another obscurring mist, cut the guy-lines from the boat, and paddle for dear life.

[Deophaun]

Not sure how Light of Lunia would have discovered an invisible creature, fog or no, but it resulted in a great encounter, which is all that matters.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Not sure how Light of Lunia would have discovered an invisible creature, fog or no, but it resulted in a great encounter, which is all that matters.

If I understand correctly, he applied the real-world fact that light tends to bounce around in mist to raise the contrast in the misty area, and called the void occupied by the invisible character a "shadow," kinda like an invisible character that's underwater making a visible, person-shaped bubble.

[Slipperychicken]

If the boat is fast enough, and the main ship doesn't have cannons, he might be able to make it out by sailing away, and trying to stay behind total cover or being invisible so he isn't shot to death.

If the boat is light enough, he could cast Invisibility on it once people start shooting him again. The archer could probably still hit his sails from a distance, but he could get out of the Cleric's range. Ideally, he has enough of a head start to GTFO.

Also, Light of Lunia does not reveal invisible creatures, so the Beguiler should have been pretty much fine, by RAW anyway. Even if the spells interacted like that, Obscuring mist still blocks sight >5ft away, and grants concealment even so.


He might not have gotten the objective, but he may well come out of this with his life, and an fine story to boot. After all, what good is getting paid when you're dead?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera
Woof, that's a well run session from where I'm sitting.

Thanks, I appreciate that. ...:smallsmile:

This was the culmination of several sessions' worth of plot and roleplaying, and it came together rather well. I love the beguiler class, and it was great fun to play a cunning spy with a mad bluff mod. The PCs had three meals a day with this guy and were just starting to suspect him.


Originally Posted by Slipperychicken
Also, Light of Lunia does not reveal invisible creatures, so the Beguiler should have been pretty much fine, by RAW anyway.

This was a DM call on the fly, and Kelb's point about high contrast is one of the factors I had in mind. Because the ambush took place in a confined cabin, there was hardly any spot where the beguiler wasn't within five feet of someone.

And I figured that Light of Lunia, being celestial radiance, would be stronger and more mystically penetrating than ordinary light. Maybe a slight stretch, but it gave the PCs that little edge they needed.

Is it debatable? Sure. Was it a ton of fun? Yes, it was. ...:smalltongue:



And I know I've barely scratched the surface of what a beguiler can do. Invisibility, Spider Climb and Expeditious Retreat all at once make for a great infiltrator package. You're a ghost without the inconvenience of Detect Undead.

The only limitation I can see, at least so far, is how quickly even a social infiltrator can run through spells. You're a charming, whelming, disguising machine and suddenly you're down to your last Dancing Lights. It calls for some very careful planning...which, as this beguiler has discovered, can only take you so far.



Speaking of which, thanks for the suggestions about the beguiler's last desperate move. Casting Invisibility on the jolly-boat is a very good idea, since he has Practiced Spellcaster and I don't think the boat weighs 700 lbs. (The weight of a standard jolly-boat: another obscure nautical fact to run down.)

If that'll work, then that Glitterdust may have just saved his life. For weeks now I've been wondering what possible use that spell could ever be, given he was always operating in confined cabins...and then it occurred to me right there at the end. I do catch on eventually. ...:smallbiggrin:

[Deophaun]

Is it debatable? Sure. Was it a ton of fun? Yes, it was.
And that's why I don't have a problem with it. It's also not like there are no first level spells that can reveal an invisible creature, so I don't think you're opening yourself up for future trouble with the ruling.

[Palanan]

So, we had our next session this afternoon, and I thought I'd share the second half of the story.

We picked up right at the instant the last session left off. What follows is what happens when a desperate beguiler is scraping bottom for ideas to get away...

Drifting off:

The beguiler cuts the final guyline, and watches in painful satisfaction as the halfling and the elf become mismatched golden silhouettes in the heart of a sparkling cloud. The elven archer nearly killed him, but now his superior elven eyes can't see worth--

No time for that; as shouts are raised on the deck above, the beguiler casts Obscuring Mist on the fo'c'sle, knowing it will sweep aft as the ship continues forward. The mist gives him vital cover as his jollyboat slips past the massive hull. With a stabbing effort, he seizes onto a rope and casts Invisibility on the jollyboat, and then guides it aft along the larger ship's waterline.

As he comes close to the ship's great rudder, he hears further shouting above, conflicting orders from different officers concerning the other ship's boats. He clings a moment to the rudder, at work with his hands, grateful for a moment's natural confusion that he didn't have to cause.

As the mist begins to creep over the quarterdeck, he lets go of the rudder, and listens to the heightened shouting that comes with a ship's crew working at cross-purposes. No time to savor the delicious confusion; painfully he crawls under the folded sails--he'll step the mast later, once he's left the ship behind--and drinks the last of his healing potions.

Then the captain's voice thunders down from above, ordering the next boat to be sent over the side. "Belay that," the beguiler murmurs, "keep those boats aboard." A few moments earlier he'd cast Message on several seamen for just this purpose, and as he rests beneath the covering sails, he issues countermanding orders to the topmen, the bosun's mate and the sailors by the ship's boats.

An arrow whistles through the mist, far to one side, dropping into the choppy water with a feeble slap. The mist is washing over the taffrail now, dispersing into the rain and wind, but the beguiler knows he can't be seen. A few more moments, a little more confusion--"Let fly the to'gallant staysails!"--and he'll be lost in the dull grey seas. He's had better days, but he's almost clean away.


Into the swing of it:

Peering from beneath the covering sails, the beguiler sees the last of the mist vanishing off the receding quarterdeck--and the halfing and the elven archer running to the taffrail at the stern, staring straight at him.

Did they see him? Can't be sure; can't take chances. He's still within range for Dancing Lights, and once again creates the amorphous glowing figure, the sickly yellow-green light that's stood him in good stead with these superstitious scrubs before.

Unfortunately the scrubs are too busy for superstition; there's much focus on the boats, with the first leftenant directly supervising the crew lowering the 22-foot yawl into the water. These are rough seas for small boats, but as the beguiler watches, he sees the cleric and the captain of the marines almost throw themselves into it, eager to be in pursuit.

He watches them grimly. If he times this right--

A sudden sharp impact knocks the breath from his mouth. It wasn't an arrow; he isn't hurt; but the halfling is at the taffrail, staring directly at him with a long strip of something in his hand. Could he have actually made that impossible shot with a sling?

The yawl is moving away from the great ship now, oars rising and dipping into the chop. As it passes below the aft quarterdeck and the great cabin, the halfling suddenly leaps over the quarter-gallery, grabs a convenient line, and swings down onto the yawl's compact bow, making a perfect landing despite the drenching rain. He makes some quip that's lost to the wind.

Swing away, the beguiler thinks. Right...about...now--


Boom, sir.

A sharp thundercrack echoes from directly beneath the great cabin, sending wood flying and blowing out several windows. The beguiler watches their startled faces with much more than professional satisfaction: the halfling and the others in the small boat alongside, the elven archer thrown off balance on the quarterdeck above.

The alchemical package had worked to perfection; the beguiler promises he'll buy that dwarf a drink. Lodged between the rudder and sternpost, the explosive wasn't strong enough to blow off the rudder completely, but from the crescendo of shouting on deck it must have shattered the tiller and severed the tiller ropes. He couldn't have asked for more.

The great ship had been yawing to starboard, but now she now longer answers the helm, which in turn answers the beguiler's cold thin prayers. His greatest fear had been that she'd come about and run him down under a great press of sail; now the broken windows of the great cabin are veiled by sheets of rain, indistinct and still receding. The rudder will take an hour to repair, at the least, and by then he'll be long out of sight.


Bullet time:

Another sharp impact on the jollyboat's stern gives the beguiler another frisson. Over a hundred feet away, the yawl and its small crew press on, the halfling riding easily on the bow. Wild laughter drifts across the water, and the beguiler begins to question the sanity of his pursuers.

No question: the halfling is sending sling bullets after him. The next several miss, but the beguiler knows he's been spotted somehow. He can't take the time to step the mast and come about; the yawl is catching up too quickly under the steady oars.

Time to fire back. The beguiler reaches to his belt and slips out a long metallic splinter, and flicks it towards the halfling. A silvery flash and the halfling's chest is scorched--but he doesn't fall.

Another sling bullet spins by and drops harmlessly into the rain-spattered swell. Another silvery flash catches the halfling square on--and still he doesn't fall. The beguiler begins to regret not having spent more time reading up on poisons; a simple blowgun might be more useful than these pretty arcane trinkets.

The seamen are pulling hard now, and the yawl is only a stone's throw away: the halfling riding the bow, the young cleric and the marine captain right behind him. Another sling bullet goes astray--and now the beguiler throws one of his own.


Snakes in a boat:

The beguiler enjoys the sudden commotion, the shouts of terror and screaming, the marine captain's frantic attempts at stabbing the small slithering things writhing around his feet. Too late, the beguiler realizes the halfling is standing on the yawl's compact bow--and something swift and dense hits the beguiler's head like a flying funeral urn. The sling bullet drops with a heavy rattle as the beguiler fights a sudden oily surge of pain and nausea.

His only consolation is the continuing screaming and confusion from the yawl, no longer under coordinated power and beginning to swing to one side. Apparently the seamen have quite a terror of snakes, and the marine captain's vaunted swordplay is evidently not much good against opponents at ankle height. If only the venom could take them all, the beguiler could shape his course at leisure.

"I don't think these are real," he hears the halfling say, "--yeeaarrrgh!"

It's a beautiful moment, one the beguiler wishes would last. Unfortunately, all too soon the rapiers are done with the snakes, and the yawl grows quiet across the water. Peering cautiously over the transom, he finally dares to hope: the two seamen are slumped in the stern, their oars askew, and even as he watches the marine captain crumples down across the thwarts. The cleric, a novice of the Moonshaes' earth-mother goddess, is tending to all of them as best she can, looking drawn and distressed; even the godsdamned halfling is wrapping a bandage around an oarsman's leg.

Well, all for the best, then; even if the halfling didn't have the decency to be poisoned and slip beneath the waves, most of the others are halfway there. Neither the halfling nor the girl can pull an oar like a true seaman, and they aren't even trying; while the beguiler watches, the yawl nearly broaches to, and the distance between the boats slowly widens again. Now the halfling seems to be bailing vigorously, not even glancing at the jollyboat.

His head still twisting with angry nausea, the beguiler settles back down beneath the sails, into the cold sloshing water fed by rain and chop. He's drenched through and deeply chilled, queasy from the rough waves and the shock of that sling bullet; but he's dealt with his pursuers great and small, and all he has to do is ride it out a little while longer. He'll have a miserable evening, a miserable night, and then he'll make his rendezvous and be on his way to warm, safe, wonderfully dry land again. He considers relocating to Silverymoon.

Then he hears the sniffing.


I really otter be going:

He'd always been faintly wary of the cleric's silver-furred otter, which she'd fed tidbits to in the wardroom; the midshipmen had watched this with a certain hungry resentment. Otherwise he hadn't given it much thought. It's certainly the last creature he expects to see now.

And yet, when he peeks out, there's the creature with its head rising easily from the swell, staring at him from ten yards away.

And then it's gone, a silvery streak racing off in the direction of the not-yet-distant yawl. The beguiler swears viciously to himself; he has a fresh vial of scentbreaker in his belt, but he'd never thought to use it today, and he doubts it would even work on the open water. If only he had some smelt, he could try to make friends.

From across the water, he hears a familiar voice: "Follow that otter!" The halfling, of course. No, no friends with the otter.

But the seamen can't pull the oars; his pursuers are still laid low, and otter or no otter, the beguiler begins to think they really can't do much else. What matter if they can see him, when they can't reach him? It's not as if they can swim in these seas.


Going overboard:

There's trouble over in the yawl: the cleric, wet and miserable, is conferring with the halfling--and then, as the beguiler watches with a cold twisting feeling, she reaches to her waist, reads briefly from something she's holding, and touches the halfling.

The beguiler knows the halfling wears glitterfine armor beneath his coat; the little braggart makes a point of it. The beguiler was hoping that armor would drag him straight to the bottom of the ocean, if only he'd ever contrive to fall in.

But now the halfling leaps deliberately into the rain-pelted sea--and instead of drowning like an obliging fellow, he's somehow remaining on the surface. And swimming with a surprising expertise and speed.

The beguiler frantically runs down his list of emergency backup contingency items, all neatly slotted into their separate pockets in his belt. Antitoxin, bottled night, his last thunderstone...none good. Somehow the black fan talisman doesn't seem appropriate here.

The ship's second leftenant--whose identity he's temporarily borrowing--habitually wore an elven courtblade, which the beguiler has borrowed as well. Now he scrabbles to pull it from its sheath, trying to haul around the unwieldy blade; he's not even sure if he can use it eff--

The halfling swings up onto the transom in a surge of seawater; the beguiler flings back the sailcloth and leaps up with the blade--

--the blade grating against his inner ribs, somehow thrust into him before he could even begin a swing, and the hot lance of sudden pain drives him into darkness.


Not over yet:

The beguiler drifts into muzzy consciousness to the lovely softness of a woman's touch, and the scent of an intriguing perfume rich in his nostrils.

He coughs on cold seawater. His body is a bent and twisted thing of pain, especially his wrists, now trussed hard behind him. His eyes are bound with something silky-fine but effectively opaque; it has the scent of one of Waterdeep's finer establishments, and half-consciously he registers he's been blindfolded with something that wasn't intended for that purpose. Then he realizes it was.

Splashing footsteps beside him. "Earlier today," the halfling says pleasantly, "I had a choice of whether to put a dagger in your eye. Would you like to guess what will happen if I have to choose again?"

The beguiler gives a faint whine, which degenerates into another wheezing, desperate cough; he's been gagged as well. A tiny part of him admits this was a sensible move. The rest of him is praying to every thunder god he can think of for a miraculous bolt of lightning, and a finger-knife.

The thunder gods must be answering their more faithful adherents. No lightning, not even a hopeful little scorch.


Yawl come back now:

The beguiler drifts in and out, listening occasionally to discussions between the halfling, the cleric and the marine captain. Unfortunately no one seems to have died. More unfortunately, they've stepped the yawl's foremast and turned loose the jollyboat, removing his last possible hope for escape.

The rain is lessening now, and he hears them discussing their options: virtually no chance of finding the great ship, their only hope to make for land. The Nelanther Isles discussed--a harsh maze of barren rocks, home to reavers and seaborne thugs--and the Moonshaes proposed as a far better alternative, a likelier chance for a rendezvous at Llewellyn or somewhere on the Snowdown coast. At some point, guessing direction from wind and current, the halfling takes the tiller and guides them toward the west.

The beguiler is a pale cold thing, lying half-sunk in frigid water; he would be ravenous if his head wasn't knocking against the keel with every surging wave. No one has offered him food in any case; but endless hours later, when the rain has stopped and he senses night has come, he smells what can only be brandy, and the sweet sharp scent of chocolatl, that strange dark novelty that's been popular in Waterdeep. The cleric has never tried it before; she's having a small revelation. Somehow there is sweet bread, and cheese, and on the thwarts around him there is muted conversation.

He lies forgotten in the sloshing water, hating them silently. He is crushingly exhausted and weak; his body hurts too much to allow any sleep. His wrists and ankles are too tightly bound--even for a seaman, the halfling has a deft hand for ropework--and he doesn't doubt the little creature's threat.

But he is alive. They are heading towards land. And in the morning...things will be different. He knows they will.



DM Notes:

As you probably noticed, this took several turns I wasn't expecting, including the decision to try to reach the Moonshaes with a small ship's boat. I'd been planning for the ship to make a stop in the islands, just not quite this soon.

We didn't have quite the energy level of the previous session, because rolling a lot of terrible spot checks on the open water tends to slow things down; keeping up the narrative flow is something I need to work on.

I'm also wishing I'd been able to give the beguiler some more effective alchemical tricks once his spells ran out. I know aboleth mucus is all kinds of harsh, but I worried that would be too much for low-level characters. The beguiler had two other options he ended up not using: a scroll of summon monster (which I passed over, because the eels from Stormwrack are pathetic*) and an auran mask, which he would've used as a desperation measure--except he knew the otter would easily find him, above or below the water.

It was a somewhat anticlimactic end to the day's pursuit, and I'm disappointed I couldn't do more for my beguiler, but the party did get their prize.

_______
*
Why not a shrieking eel? That would be worthwhile.


Help your friendly neighborhood beguiler!

He's in a wretched position, but he hasn't given up yet. He's nursing a bitter grudge against the halfling, and he's feeling professionally challenged as well.

They'll be on the open sea all night, and the beguiler knows that once the halfling goes to sleep, he'll have a little more leeway to try working on the ropes. The halfling had a good Use Rope check, though, so I don't know how well he'll do.

Any suggestions for how he can get out of this situation? The two seaman and the marine captain are still weak from the viper venom, but the halfling and the cleric are another matter--and the otter is too alert by half. Is there any hope for our beguiler?

[Malroth]

Use pathetic looks at the crew members to get ungagged then attempt to use Diplomacy to try to turn the party against eachother, The Beguiler won't risk any lies under this circumstance since she'll suspect detect lies, but saying "I heard X" or "It seems like Y" can be perfectly true. She'll spread mistrust, innuendo, and dissent trying to find the weakest link in the group and then try to get herself untied or at the very least try to get someone to take out the halfling for what they think are their own reasons.

[Slipperychicken]

If they decide to switch him into proper manacles, he can Knock (only a Verbal component) them open, then try to GTFO again.

Take 20 on Escape Artist when no-one's actively watching (When the Halfling's asleep? That should give him the 20 minutes required). Failing that, attempt to deal 4 damage to the rope, possibly by leaning/rubbing on something sharp or reaching a dagger if they failed to disarm him properly.

[Jack_Simth]

Hmm... what level of spells is he capable of casting, again? You said he's seventh level, but has some levels in Spymaster, as I recall.

Let's see... he's got Silent Spell as a class feature... did he take Still Spell, and maybe Eschew Materials?

As his captors decided to take him alive, he's got a few options for his plan:

1) Let them take him to some authority or another, and try to get out of that (escape, argue his case well (diplomancy), or whatever).
2) Escape now.
3) Escape later.

What's his personality? Is he the type to carefully examine a situation before choosing his route, or is he the opportunist who will take the first seemingly-good option to come along?

Given that he's a professional spy....

OK:
He plays the model prisoner. Oh yes, and the party appears to be lost at sea. Perfect. He needs to cut a deal. He'll need his hands free to be of help (obviously), and he'll need to be able to communicate with people.

The guy needs to claim to be great at navigating, and that he'll take them wherever they'd like - after all, it's no use to him if he dies of thirst at sea - and then he needs to take them where he wants, rather than where they want. He's probably got allies or a base of operations somewhere that'll bail him out, he just needs to get to them.

And maybe get a bite to eat ....

[Palanan]

Thanks for the suggestions so far; let me give a little more detail on the beguiler's situation.

He is securely bound, blindfolded and gagged, and not likely to be untied by anyone in the boat. The halfling's Use Rope check was a 24, and the beguiler has a +3 Dex bonus and no ranks in Escape Artist, so I don't think it's mechanically possible for him to successfully take 20.

For the past several days, on the main ship, the beguiler has been playing his cover identity to the hilt, and only this morning did the PCs even begin to suspect him. Having seen just how cunning an actor he is, they're extremely unlikely to believe anything he says.

There are no manacles around, so Knock probably won't be an option (although the beguiler dearly wishes it were). The navigate-to-safety approach is a good idea, except the halfling is a better navigator to begin with, and the cleric is originally from the Moonshaes and she'll recognize the coastline.

So, there may not be anything the beguiler can do. Sometimes the players do a really good job of covering their bases, and I don't want to take that away from them. But if there's even the remotest chance the beguiler can get away, he'll take it.

[laeZ1]

A point I didn't see anybody bring up (though they could have... I only read about half of the responses this time) is the other NPCs. The sailors on this vessel probably don't very much like this group of adventurers lining them up on their own ship. Have some be angry at this interruption. Make sure they've got names. Players'll metagame, even if they don't try. Named NPCs are more-likely suspects. Have some of the NPCs try to refuse to be questioned. Even though they're innocent, it'll feel like A) their sailor's honor is being tarnished, and B) They don't want to lose face in front of the other tough-guy sailors.

Another point about names. If you've got twenty sailors being questioned, makes sure about 6 of them have names on command, but the beguiler doesn't have to be one.

If twin brothers are sailing the ship together, but never happen to be in the same room, that'll misdirect the players too (wait... didn't I see him on the other side of the ship just a seccond ago?). Perhaps they're pranksters and like to mess with travelers, and their pranks might be mistaken for suspicious activity by the party.

[Palanan]

Good point about the sailors' potential attitude. As it happens, though, the halfling PC has maxed out Diplomacy and he's an experienced sailor, so he's become very popular on the ship in just a few days, due mainly to some very good roleplaying. The hands like him, and they've already taken to calling him "Ghostbane," on account of his having instantly leaped into battle with a ghost when it appeared within reach.

(The ghost, of course, was a distraction cast by the beguiler, but the hands don't believe that.)

Also, the PCs have the captain's approval of their actions, so the sailors have direct orders to cooperate. At the moment, there are only two sailors in the small boat with the party, and they defer to the halfling as the closest officer-like being in sight.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Seems to me that your beguiler can't do anything active at this point. He'll just have to bide his time until the PC's make a mistake he can capitalize on.

That said, maybe you should just let them have this one and prep a replacement villian.