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Morithias
2012-08-10, 02:33 PM
Hey everyone, new campaign, old idea.

One of the first campaigns I ran was the "Final Fantasy Tactic Advanced" Plot, (this was like 8-9 years ago), where the PCs get transported into the D&D universe.

This of course comes with it's own problems the PC's know all the tricks and best way to fight and dominate the world, but after an event in a pirate campaign recently (I didn't consider them fire-balling the sail) I've realized that I need a break from epic storytelling 101 and go back to something more basic less I overwork myself trying to plan for every event that my chaotic PCs will do.

To this end I've decided to go back to my routes, only this time I'm writing around the hole of "why can't I burn down the town with my fireball spell" by justifying it in-world, this is a new virtual reality MMORPG. The reason your fireball won't burn the bakery down is because the programmers made it so it doesn't.

This obviously ruins a fair bit of the skill lists though. Knowledge is useless cause it's all about the mmo, and there's no reason why they can't just log off and google stuff, so I'm probably going to give them the world map from the get-go.

Another thing I want to do is revamp the craft and profession skills. Make it so they're actually workable as skills.

Due to the way D&D 3.5 works one can't have max-ranks in all the craft skills. I'm considering for those skills some kind of Mabinogi "leveling" system, where via using the skill you get better at it, and removing the time it takes to craft anything (basically you just walk up to the forge and declare you want to craft a sword), it might not seem like a ton but saving 66% on your purchases can mean a lot.

Profession will probably be rewritten to make daily checks, and businesses check weekly instead of monthly. Probably have a similar leveling system of "practice to get better" type thing.

What kind of suggestions does the almighty wizard forum have for this? Have any of you done anything similar?

Yora
2012-08-10, 02:40 PM
I don't understand what you are proposing.

Morithias
2012-08-10, 02:43 PM
I don't understand what you are proposing.

How would you rewrite parts of the game to make it work as a high-tech videogame instead of a "real" world?

What part don't you understand?

The Boz
2012-08-10, 02:47 PM
So should it BE an MMO (look at DDO) or should it stay as a tabletop game (look at 4th Ed.)?

Tyndmyr
2012-08-10, 02:48 PM
If your pen and paper game offers no more realism and freedom than a computer MMORPG, does it offer the graphics and playerbase of an MMORPG?

If not, I think your players would be better up playing the computer game.

Morithias
2012-08-10, 02:55 PM
So should it BE an MMO (look at DDO) or should it stay as a tabletop game (look at 4th Ed.)?

I'm thinking more "neverwinter nights", type thing.


If your pen and paper game offers no more realism and freedom than a computer MMORPG, does it offer the graphics and playerbase of an MMORPG?

If not, I think your players would be better up playing the computer game.

Well to be fair, they game to be with their friends, not for xp and loot, seriously I'm our main DM and I am heavily burned out. If they want a better campaign they can write it, this is my last stand before I break down and basically quit Dming.

Will it allow more realism and freedom? Sure, you don't have to pay $20 to play as the warforged. The player base is made up of npcs played by the DM sure, but that can be said for any tabletop game.

Geeze, given the negative backlash so quickly, maybe I should just throw this idea out and quit dming "until one of you completes a whole campaign" or something.

Loth17
2012-08-10, 02:59 PM
Im currently doing something similar and so far it is pretty solid

Ravens_cry
2012-08-10, 03:02 PM
If your pen and paper game offers no more realism and freedom than a computer MMORPG, does it offer the graphics and playerbase of an MMORPG?

If not, I think your players would be better up playing the computer game.
Yeah, if I want to play an MMOROG, I'll play an MMORPG.
If I want to have the freedom and interaction of a pen and paper game, I'll play a pen and paper game.
Much of the conventions of the MMORPG come from the limitations of the medium, limitations pen and paper role play does not have.
Why play against the strengths, the very draw of the medium in exchange for bear ass collection quests, no permanent effect on the game world, boring interactions with NPC's and utterly transparent railroading?
Woo, sounds like a hoot. </sarcasm>

Tebryn
2012-08-10, 03:02 PM
Have you told your gaming group you're sick of DMing and want a break? Two comment saying "This is a bad idea" isn't negative backlash either. I think the real issue here is you're tired of DMing and need a break.

Loki_42
2012-08-10, 03:04 PM
I think this could work, if you took it a bit more tongue and cheek. I don't really see that you would have to retool all that much, pretty much anything you can justify as just a rule of the game, because that's exactly what it is. What kind of system are you using(I would assume D&D) and what edition would you run(what you say makes it sound like 3.5, but 4th edition could work well. Not trying to flame war here or anything, but 4e really does play like a hotbar focused modern MMO.). If you think you could make it fun, I say go for it.

However, other things you say make it sound like your just burnt out on DMing, and you think this will curtail your players from doing the kind of free-form things that Tabletop Gaming let's them do over an MMO. If your really just burnt out, your best solution is to not DM. You're a lot less likely to be able to make any concept into a fun game if you don't feel like DMing. Is anyone else in your group willing to run a game. If not, is everyone in your group willing to talk to you about why you're feeling burnt out?

Hylas
2012-08-10, 03:10 PM
I thought about it for a little a few years ago but decided against it because most of my players haven't played an MMO, so any sort of references and whatnot would be lost.

What I think would be neat is to use E6 and allow respecs by getting rare item X. Of course if you want to allow players to create their own pocket dimensions and do other crazy things then that won't work out as well. Doing E6 can allow for some interesting combinations like unlock "sub-classes" by using gestalt instead of just leveling up a ton. It would also for more balanced gameplay because at level 20 there is a difference between a fighter and a wizard in available options and power using D&D.

So what I would do is when players get to level 6 they stop, and can unlock additional feats as usual E6 rules, and can even change feats around by using a rare item that costs like 10,000 GP. Eventually they can do a quest that unlocks the ability to have a sub-class, which mechanically is allowing them to have a standard or prestige class as part of a gestalt (So a Fighter 6 could turn into a Figher 6//Duelist 1 then into a Fighter 6//Duelist 2, etc until Fighter 6//Duelist 6). I'll probably award additional feats and skill points as quest rewards and stuff instead of the standard E6 scheme, due to the gestalt idea.

For the setting I'd have it all be on one big server, like EVE Online. I'd take a page from .hack// stuff and have it be a big complex MMO that is massively popular, like 10-20 million active users. You'll interface using VR goggles and custom controls (the details aren't important). The game will be complex enough that GMs themselves have a hard time catching problem players sometimes. The economy will be 99% player driven, like in SWG. Rare drops will consist mostly of raw materials that need a crafter to turn into a powerful weapon, with few exceptions like "Excalibur" or whatever mythical weapons you want to have. Hearthstones, or some other item that allows going back to a major city, should be allowed, but have a cooldown as normal. Have only a few major cities and the rest be player-built, this allows for hostile takeovers and sieges and other fun things from MMOs long gone.

Add something to the game that makes it so griefers are considered a kill on sight kind of thing rather than an annoyance. Like, why would a guild not want to destroy a city for fun? Well all of the crafters need a crafting place, and you can bind and teleport to a city, and it's where you resurrect and can find doctors, entertainers, or other temp buff dispensers. People like one-stop shopping too so it's good for business and the economy. People also need houses to store all of their crap and to decorate, so the safer cities will be more expensive because who wants to lose all of that work?

Travel can be as big or as small of a deal as you want. The Mages of Blue Socks, a guild that has powerful casters exclusively, has set up a network of instant-teleport hubs, but they charge a hefty fee compared to the railroad network, but not everyone wants to wait. There's also rent-a-horse which gives you a 1 hour long summoned mount to go adventuring off the beaten path. Pick what you like.

Going back to the game being super complex. I'd have the developers be kinda reclusive and secretive and the GMs usually have to be the face for the company, but even they are mostly in the dark with what's going on. Sometimes hacked items and players that cheat show up and cause problems. "Oh, the door to the inn? It doesn't lead outside, it leads upstairs. Have fun being stuck! Muahaha!" Hacked items can be rare artifacts, or overpowered swords, or even seemingly useless magic items, feel free to go crazy. Maybe the players can get on the wrong side of the law and end up Kill On Sight for major cities and be forced outside of society, all while trying to unravel the mystery of why events in the game are affecting real life. They can fall into areas which aren't released or even finished yet, where certain pieces of code haven't been added, like gravity or damage.

For skills like Knowledge you can have them add in-game benefits, like +1 to attack on enemies your character identifies, or the character's ability to spot things like structural weaknesses or traps. Another idea I had was that they represent your player's ability to use Google to find information. It's kinda wonky and hand-waving, but it can work.

Kol Korran
2012-08-12, 03:00 PM
First I think you should ask the players if they are interested in such a game. opinions may vary, and it's important to know them before committing yourself to it.

However, I do think like some above posters that if you feel burned out, that you should have some time off. I too DMed some campaigns, and always made a "deal" with the group that once the campaign is over- someone else takes the reigns for a short time, letting me be a player, and recharge my batteries. It brings me up to the next campaign with much renewed vigor. If I didn't do this, I think i would burn down mid campaign, which would be quite a waste of time for everyone involved.

WildPyre
2012-08-12, 03:48 PM
The one thing everyone seems to be missing here...


What kind of suggestions does the almighty wizard forum have for this?


He's not even asking us guys. :confused:

Morithias
2012-08-12, 03:57 PM
The one thing everyone seems to be missing here...

He's not even asking us guys. :confused:

Almighty Wizard Forum = Joking name for the forum, aka what you people make up. Don't act like you seriously misread that.

Kuma Kode
2012-08-12, 08:47 PM
I vaguely remember coming across a webcomic that was based on the idea of an MMORPG world, but that something inside the game figured out how to reprogram it. Not that the game was hacked, but that someone figured out they were in a game and could rewrite the code to their world.

You could start with a generic MMO style thing and develop it into something more interesting. Without a plot or something the MMO idea goes absolutely nowhere. It would be the worst of both styles smashed together.

NikitaDarkstar
2012-08-12, 11:00 PM
It CAN work, if you put a little bit more at stake than basically telling you're players they're playing character's who are playing a game, that gets them to disconnected.
I'd suggest taking a look at something like the anime .HACK//Sign where the game ends up A) having effects on the real world, and B) Starts behaving in ways it wasn't really designed to do. Then twist it around until you're happy with it.
Something like that can potentially keep people inside of the MMO, and having to follow the programmed rules, but still make it feel like it actually matters.

As for retooling skills? I'd consider looking at how other D20 systems have done it. Pathfinder removed the double cost on class skills and combined some skills that made sense. The Warcraft/World of Warcraft RPG worked over crafting and profession some to make them work more along the WoW trade skills. But my favorite skill system must be Iron Heroes where each class gets groups of skills as their class skills. They invest one point in a group and it raises every skill in that group. (They can also take skills one by one from other groups of course.)

I'd also look at alternative crafting systems to cut down the amount of time it takes to create pretty much anything, and for the MMO feel I'd look into a Mana Point system instead if the traditional Vancian system D&D uses. (BESM has one system, the WoW RPG has one as an alternative, and there's obviously more.)

Only thing is, if you're burned out as a DM, are you sure you want to do something that will require you to spend a lot of time balancing house rules and homebrew? See if someone else in the group feels up for DM'ing and take a break.

Sith_Happens
2012-08-12, 11:05 PM
So, just to make sure we're understanding this correctly, your idea is for a D&D campaign whose plot/setting/premise is something along the lines of .hack? If so, my recommendation would be to have parts of the campaign take place in the "real" world, possibly using d20 Modern rules.