What do NPCs know about PCs' class/level?

[suszterpatt]

Never played pen and paper, but I'm curious: how accurately can NPCs tell a PC's class/level just by looking at them or conversing with them?

Surely an NPC can't get an exact breakdown of your levels, but just how outrageously could a PC lie about their capabilities before people, even lowly peasants, start to catch on? Could a rogue pretend to be a wizard by combining UMD'd scrolls/wands and Sleight of Hand? Can a 19th level cleric pretend to be a 1st level bard?

I'd imagine this is highly influenced by a bunch of skill checks, spells, etc as well as the NPC in question, but you get the idea.

[Water_Bear]

I'd imagine this is highly influenced by a bunch of skill checks, spells, etc as well as the NPC in question, but you get the idea.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner.


There's a rule (I think it was Complete Warrior, but you can find it in Rules Compendium more easily) that says you can use Sense Motive to determine relative CR with about a ~1 CR margin of error.
The SRD also has rules for researching creature's Hit Die (although they specify it is a metagame concept and characters think of it much differently).
Finally Knowledge checks to identify creatures will give you information about their racial abilities or ones they got from a template.


Combine those, and you get approximate CR, exact HD, and Type / Subtype / Species; enough to tell if your foe has PC class levels, if they have any cool templates, and what they do.

[Flickerdart]

Sense Motive has a new use in Oriental Adventures: by hitting an incredibly trivial DC, you can get someone's BAB, weapon damage and Iaijutsu Focus ranks.

[GenghisDon]

Never played pen and paper, but I'm curious: how accurately can NPCs tell a PC's class/level just by looking at them or conversing with them?

Surely an NPC can't get an exact breakdown of your levels, but just how outrageously could a PC lie about their capabilities before people, even lowly peasants, start to catch on? Could a rogue pretend to be a wizard by combining UMD'd scrolls/wands and Sleight of Hand? Can a 19th level cleric pretend to be a 1st level bard?

I'd imagine this is highly influenced by a bunch of skill checks, spells, etc as well as the NPC in question, but you get the idea.

The skill checks are given, but it kind of depends how common various PC classes are in a given campaign also (what common knowledge checks include). Ordinary folks may know a fair bit or little. I'd guess classes like wizard, sorcerer, warlock, wu jen, ect, would tend to be lumped together most of the time. It might be more interesting to consider what common folks/NPC's DO NOT KNOW, but think they do. Superstition & rumours will surround many classes & races. This could be a hinderance sometimes or a boon.

A rogue may well be able to pretend to be ANY class...disguise, bluff, UMD, SOH, & perform(acting) all ought work nicely for that. The cleric would need some ranks in perform, I would think, but beyond that, why not? They might need to divest themselves of some identifiable holy gear/symbols, ect, to "sell it", however.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

In general, carried items, armor, and other gear are a big tell for various types of opponents.

Holy Symbol or Divine Focus: Cleric or Paladin or other divine spellcaster. Typically high Fort and Will saves, decent HP and AC, capable melee combatant on top of the spells. Target with Reflex save-or-lose effect (Web) and kill them second to last as long as they can be reliably controlled.

Spell Component Pouch: Arcane spellcaster; +instrument/armor = Bard, +spellbook = Wizard. Typically high Will save, low HP and AC, poor in melee (unless Bard), extremely powerful spells. Neutralize asap, preferably with hard hp damage or Fort save-or-lose effects (Blindness or Nauseated).

Light armor, high quality melee and/or ranged weapons, none of the above caster tells: Rogue or Ranger or similar. Typically high Reflex and maybe Fort saves, medium HP and AC, extremely dangerous melee or ranged physical attacks. Send minions to engage, and/or target with strong debuffs (Solid Fog or Slow), otherwise use Will save-or-lose (pref Dominate/Charm or Confusion, otherwise Glitterdust).

Medium or Heavy armor, high quality melee and/or ranged weapons, no spellcaster tells: Fighter or Barbarian or similar. Typically high Fort saves, high HP, high AC, extremely dangerous melee or ranged physical attacks. Target with Will save-or-lose (pref Dominate/Charm or Confusion, otherwise Glitterdust) and/or Reflex save-or-lose (if they're close to the divine casters), kill last if they can be reliably controlled.

No armor, no weapons, no spellcaster tells: Some fool is playing a Monk, send one of your weakest minions to occupy him, maybe he'll actually defeat it and get to feel special. If he happens to be a Swordsage instead, treat as Rogue/Ranger archtype.

Animal Companions and similar: Ray of Stupidity automatically takes them out of the fight in one hit. Otherwise treat as Rogue/Ranger archtype.

[The Redwolf]

...disguise, bluff, UMD, SOH...

What are UMD and SOH?

Edit: SOH is sleight of hand I bet, still can't peg UMD though, sorry.

[GernifTheBard]

What are UMD and SOH?

Edit: SOH is sleight of hand I bet, still can't peg UMD though, sorry.

Use Magic Device. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useMagicDevice.htm)

[Baka Nikujaga]

"Use Magic Device"

[Edit]
Swordsage'd!

[The Redwolf]

Use Magic Device. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useMagicDevice.htm)

Thanks, I've seen that thrown around a lot but I just couldn't figure it out, feel a little silly now that it was just a skill. :smallredface:

[GenghisDon]

Sorry, I'd seen the short forms used elsewhere on the forum. It's true what they say though; "there are no dumb questions"

With skills/items a rogue could cast spells or perform "miracles", as well as sound like, act & look the part of a wizard, bishop/priest, ect

Such a con-man or charlattan type rogue can be fun to have one's players interact with.

[molten_dragon]

It depends on whether or not the character is trying to hide who they are or not.

Class generally isn't too hard to figure out. The big guy with a sword and full plate is probably a paladin (if he has a horse), a fighter (if he doesn't), or a barbarian (if he froths at the mouth and screams at the top of his lungs all the time when he's attacking). The guy wearing leather with the bow or the daggers that's always trying to slip around behind you is most likely a rogue. The guy with the animal with him is probably a druid or a ranger. The guy in robes is a wizard. etc. Most of the time, if someone isn't trying to hide their class, you should be able to figure it out pretty easily (or at least get close).

Level is a bit harder, but it can sometimes be done too. There are a few things to watch for. With spellcasters, if you have spellcraft and can identify what spells they're casting that will give you an idea. How many iterative attacks the melee guys make can give you a very rough idea what level they are. Knowledge checks might let you know specific class features that certain classes get at certain levels that you could look out for. And you can also get a rough idea by sizing them up with detect magic. Depending on exactly how many and how powerful the auras of their gear on should give you a rough idea how powerful they are.