Tarquin's end

[Cifer]

With the classic words of the sporadic forum-goer: I don't know whether this has been talked about already, but... oh well.

We know how Tarquin wants to end: With a dramatic duel on top of a castle or at least next to a world-shattering McGuffin against his own son. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html) A battle that will be immortalized in bardic songs, the ugly ten minutes between "lived like a king" and "became a legend".
So... right now he's made himself a faceless mook. Maybe there won't be a dramatic unmasking. Maybe he'll just be killed and the heroes will guess what's under the hood, but refuse to pull it off, simply to deny Tarquin his epic death, leaving his carcass to rot in the desert.

At least, it's the only way I can think of where Tarquin wouldn't get exactly what he wanted.

[Sorator]

That, or they'll kill him like a faceless mook, unmask him, and let Belkar use his head for another litterbox.

[t209]

How about his three empire, along with Tarquin and his buddies? If they fell, the people of western continent are gonna suffer under constant warfare.

[Lord Tyger]

How about his three empire, along with Tarquin and his buddies? If they fell, the people of western continent are gonna suffer under constant warfare.

Right now, they suffer under warfare interspersed with suffering under murderous totalitarian regimes...

[Gift Jeraff]

*obligatory butt joke*

[KillianHawkeye]

With the classic words of the sporadic forum-goer: I don't know whether this has been talked about already, but... oh well.

We know how Tarquin wants to end: With a dramatic duel on top of a castle or at least next to a world-shattering McGuffin against his own son. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html) A battle that will be immortalized in bardic songs, the ugly ten minutes between "lived like a king" and "became a legend".
So... right now he's made himself a faceless mook. Maybe there won't be a dramatic unmasking. Maybe he'll just be killed and the heroes will guess what's under the hood, but refuse to pull it off, simply to deny Tarquin his epic death, leaving his carcass to rot in the desert.

At least, it's the only way I can think of where Tarquin wouldn't get exactly what he wanted.

Is there some reason why he shouldn't get what he wants? :smallconfused:

[Gift Jeraff]

Is there some reason why he shouldn't get what he wants? :smallconfused:

He discussed wanting it on-panel. That pretty much means it won't happen.

[DukeGod]

Or maybe he can avoid that fate of not getting what he wants cause he said what it was.

Narrative rules can be broken too
For all we know he could also take one of the gates for himself, keep the world hostage and ask for godhood as ramsom and then ascend into one of the OotS-verse pantheons

Oh, and I don't think he's in any danger of dying anytime soon. He can pretty much curb-stomp the Order. And I bet he's got an item that can cast Word of Recall somewhere in him. Or Malack could just cast it
Or Malack could just ressurect him...if he dies.

[Kish]

At least, it's the only way I can think of where Tarquin wouldn't get exactly what he wanted.
Really? The only way?

What he wants hinges on extremely specific scenarios: Nothing defeats him, ideally. Failing that, Elan defeats him in some way that makes him look ridiculously badass and then tells all the world about it. So, scenarios that do lead to Tarquin getting what he wants=2. Scenarios that lead to Tarquin not getting what he wants: Infinity-2. Casually killed by Xykon, killed by any or all of the Order who then don't mention him to anyone, killed by any or all of the Order after which Elan writes an epic song about the Order's battle with the fiendish Empress of Blood in which her buffonish general gets one line, etc., etc., etc., ETC.

[Gnome Alone]

And don't forget "knocked into a god-killing interdimensional rift and annihilated utterly, latest in a nameless rabble of victims." That's a possible end too.

[ti'esar]

Is there some reason why he shouldn't get what he wants? :smallconfused:

Tarquin's plan essentially exists in the first place because he wants to imitate the success of previous evil overlords. Were he to succeed, more people would in turn want to follow in his footsteps. This would not be good.

As for the main question, my money's still on "crushed like a bug by Xykon".

[Turgon9357]

Here is what I envisioned the other day:

The fight between the remaining members ends up in the Gate room. Those who aren't engaged with Tarquin are either out of the fight or trying very hard to not be curb-stomped by Team Evil.

Roy gets not-Thog on the ropes and starts smashing at him, à la Luke hammering on Vader in Return of the Jedi. Roy gets a crit and cuts off not-Thog's hand, and his ring of regeneration with it (it would be Elan, but he uses a piercing weapon and doesn't fight in that manner). not-Thog goes down, but is still conscious (die hard feat seems at least possible for him).

As he looks on, not-Thog observes Xykon putting Elan and others in the deep fryer, possibly with lighting spells or his signature energy drains (à la Palpatine wrecking Luke after the duel). not-Thog is displeased and drags himself to his feet, hoists up Xykon and chucks him into the gate (à la Vader dropping Palpatine down the shaft). Possibly during this display the OOTS figure out who not-Thog is, and Elan removes Tarquin's helmet.

As Tarquin dies in Elan's arms, something happens to prompt Girard's Gate to go critical. At this point, the LG is completely shattered (aside from Malack, possibly), and Team Evil bugs out. The surviving members of the OOTS race out with Tarquin's body, per Elan's refusal to leave without it (à la Luke with Vader). They escape, gate goes boom (à la Death Star).

The Order has a funeral pyre for Tarquin (à la you get it), again largely for Elan's sake. Thus begins the race for Serini's Gate.

Seems like an appropriate way to integrate a climactic finish with a sobering wrap up. It would also bring all the Star Wars references to a head and be done with them. They were pretty much brought up in the arc, so it would be good to have them over and done with before moving on.

Man, that didn't seem so long in my head.

[Silvos4422]

As much as I want to see Tarquin's prediction come true, with all the predicted steps already occuring, I agree the star wars theory is far more likely.

I think to add more tension the the situation, Nale would need to die in some fashion that would prevent resurection, so that it would require Tarquin to save his only remaining son to keep his lineage alive, and make sure his story is told. This would also support the star wars theme as well as cover Sabine's last comment foreshadowing.

[Nimrod's Son]

:smallsigh: Rich made a couple of Star Wars jokes a hundred and fifty stips ago; he's not retelling Return of the Jedi here. I think he can probably think of a decent story for himself without cribbing from another one - he seems to be doing alright so far.

[Grape Starburst]

What if Nale ends up being the one to kill him in some dramatic, public way? He could think he's getting exactly what he wanted only to find out right at the end of the fight that's its Nale, not Elan he's fighting. Instead of a legendary death at the hands of his heroic son, it ends up being essentially looking like a just as bad as he is son killing his father to take his place. Nothing legendary about it, he's just one of many rulers knocked off by a successor who didn't want to wait.

[KillianHawkeye]

What if Nale ends up being the one to kill him in some dramatic, public way? He could think he's getting exactly what he wanted only to find out right at the end of the fight that's its Nale, not Elan he's fighting. Instead of a legendary death at the hands of his heroic son, it ends up being essentially looking like a just as bad as he is son killing his father to take his place. Nothing legendary about it, he's just one of many rulers knocked off by a successor who didn't want to wait.

Except for the part about Nale impersonating Elan again (been there, done that), this is probably the most poetic way for Tarquin to achieve neither conquering the world or going down as a legend that I've seen so far.

[Wightsbane]

How about: Elan disguises himself as Nale and defeats his father publicly for the reasons above. Then he lets the Order beat him up really easily, also publicly, so that Nale has a reputation as being really pathetic. And by proxy, Tarquin.

[Silferdrake]

While I am not sure about how it's going to happen, I have a feeling that Tarquin will be handled by Elan and Haley in the epilogue of the story. Just my two copper pieces.

[runeghost]

I don't think the Giant picked the name Tarquin randomly out of a hat. The members of the Tarquin Dynasty were the last three kings of Rome before the establishment of the Republic. I've no idea how it's going to happen, but I expect that Tarquin's going to find his empire turned into a popularly ruled republic/democracy of some type. Quite possibly this will be Elan's fault/plan. Tarquin may even be left alive at the end, thus completely subverting his trope and desired epic death.

[Emperordaniel]

I don't think the Giant picked the name Tarquin randomly out of a hat. The members of the Tarquin Dynasty were the last three kings of Rome before the establishment of the Republic. I've no idea how it's going to happen, but I expect that Tarquin's going to find his empire turned into a popularly ruled republic/democracy of some type. Quite possibly this will be Elan's fault/plan. Tarquin may even be left alive at the end, thus completely subverting his trope and desired epic death.

The Giant himself said that Tarquin is named after that dynasty, so this sounds plausible - and is personally my favorite theory so far. :smallsmile:

[Mike Havran]

He will get eaten by the Empress of Blood. My two CP

[Trouvere]

When Malack created the mummies, I thought Tarquin might somehow contract mummy rot and eventually "shrivel away into sand and dust that blow away into nothing at the first wind." But that seems less likely now.

[Fish]

Roy gets not-Thog on the ropes and starts smashing at him, à la Luke hammering on Vader in Return of the Jedi...
This is exactly how I imagine it too, with one addition: the red dragon queen (big round flying ball with destructive ultimate weapon) is the Death Star, which Elan destroys. Bonus points if Belkar or Durkon is encased in carbonite.

[Gitman00]

I think the only sure thing is that Tarquin's downfall will be ignominious. He wants to go down in history as a legend. But for his story to have a satisfying end (for the reader), a villain as despicable as Tarquin needs to not get exactly what he wants. So I would bet money that he's going to be defeated in an utterly humiliating and/or anonymous fashion. Either way, his legacy will not be as glorious as he imagines. Bonus points if he realizes that's how it's going to end just before he dies.

I can see it going down something like Goblinslayer's defeat in Goblins. The protagonists show him he's not the Big Bad he thinks he is - he's just a minor setback on the way to the real threat - Xykon.

[Smolder]

Tarquin brought with him his 2 most trusted advisers who are also likely to be the only 2 people from EoB who know where Tarquin went. So if all three of them die in there, regardless of how, no one will ever know what happened to them. And since they ruled from behind the thrown, it's unlikely anyone will care much about their fates either.

[Fish]

Tarquin's other companions could well be the monkey wrench in this scheme. He's got Malack; where are his other adventuring buddies? Where is the fighter chick whom he betrayed? Where's the bounty hunters?

Return of the Jedi jokes aside, this denouement could get messy.

[veti]

I don't think the Giant picked the name Tarquin randomly out of a hat. The members of the Tarquin Dynasty were the last three kings of Rome before the establishment of the Republic. I've no idea how it's going to happen, but I expect that Tarquin's going to find his empire turned into a popularly ruled republic/democracy of some type.

I like this theory very much, but it does kinda run against the D&D mechanics of the strip... D&D rules are designed for epic fantasy, not political intrigue.

In real life, if enough peons get together and stage a revolt, they can boot out their ruler no matter how personally formidable he is. But in D&D - well, there simply is no number of 1st-level revolutionaries that could realistically take down Tarquin and his associates. So any revolution has to hinge on the presence of some high-level individuals, and what's to stop them becoming the next tyrants?

As I said, I like the theory. I just don't see how it can satisfactorily work.

[Grape Starburst]

I like this theory very much, but it does kinda run against the D&D mechanics of the strip... D&D rules are designed for epic fantasy, not political intrigue.

In real life, if enough peons get together and stage a revolt, they can boot out their ruler no matter how personally formidable he is. But in D&D - well, there simply is no number of 1st-level revolutionaries that could realistically take down Tarquin and his associates. So any revolution has to hinge on the presence of some high-level individuals, and what's to stop them becoming the next tyrants?

As I said, I like the theory. I just don't see how it can satisfactorily work.

Maybe if its a really big group and they roll a lot of 20's.

[Emperordaniel]

I like this theory very much, but it does kinda run against the D&D mechanics of the strip... D&D rules are designed for epic fantasy, not political intrigue.

In real life, if enough peons get together and stage a revolt, they can boot out their ruler no matter how personally formidable he is. But in D&D - well, there simply is no number of 1st-level revolutionaries that could realistically take down Tarquin and his associates. So any revolution has to hinge on the presence of some high-level individuals, and what's to stop them becoming the next tyrants?

As I said, I like the theory. I just don't see how it can satisfactorily work.

OOTS runs first on Rule of Funny, then Rule of Plot, and only then on D&D rules. Thus, it's not out of the question that Tarquin could be overthrown by a popular uprising. :smallwink:

[Tergon]

My money's on the Dark Horse - Tarquin dies a heroic death.

Say, he and Elan (and/or Haley) are trapped and pinned down by Xykon or Redcloak and a mob of uber-mooks. Tarquin realises that there is absolutely zero chance of them all getting out alive. He can't bring himself to sacrifice the son he actually cares about or his potential daughter-in-law, or at least not like this, and besides that he's smart enough to realise by this point that tOotS are the only chance the world has of stoppin Xykon and Redcloak from taking control of the Gates.
I can see him sighing and informing Elan sadly that this is an absolutely terrible end to his story, before telling his son to run, giving his best evil grin, and suicidally charging the enemy to give Elan the chance to escape.

[Bubbles]

I don't find Tarquin's end at the hands of Xykon or anyone besides Elan to be all that likely. Unless it fits into that secret plan Elan has to deal with his father. We've already had one secret plan of Elan's that we don't get to see as joke way back in Cliffport. Elan's plan for his dad was presented in a more simple and serious way than the his plan for getting from Cliffport to Azure City was. It seems unlikely Elan's plan for dealing with Tarquin will go down as another unrevealed punchline.

That said, anything is possible. I think the strongest of possibilities relies on Elan outclassing his father in genre savvy-ness.

[Tazar]

As far as I'm concerned, Tarquin can go out by riding a comet to the Earth while throttling the Snarl with one hand and raising a fist to the heavens triumphantly in the other, backed by a brilliant sunrise all the while.

He's been the best thing to happen in this comic for a long time, and never ceases to be entertaining. He's earned it.

That said, Elan's mysterious plan is still up in the air and it would be poor storytelling for Rich not to reveal it at some point, so, sadly, I suppose Tarquin will not get his epic end.

I would like to see Tarquin die holding off Xykon in defense of Elan; while I don't think this will happen, it would be quite touching and very powerful.

[Emperordaniel]

As far as I'm concerned, Tarquin can go out by riding a comet to the Earth while throttling the Snarl with one hand and raising a fist to the heavens triumphantly in the other, backed by a brilliant sunrise all the while.

Now this would be awesome. Unlikely, but AWESOME. :smallbiggrin:

[Jeopardizer]

I have that pet theory that Tarquin will sacrifice himself to delay Xykon, yhus allowing Elan to go on to protect the Gate.

He only win because of well-timed heal/buff, kill Xykon, and when he begins to wonder where the heal/buff come from Redcloak exit the shadows and coup-de-grace him; "don't worry, for your help your name will be legend for the Goblin Nation".

Or he could conquer the Heavens and become a god, looks good either way.

[Umberhulk]

Tarquin will help Elan before the end, maybe because he will find out more about the gate than Nale is capable of telling him. Will he die a heroic death, or even die at all? Rich will surprise us is all I know.

[BlackDragonKing]

I'm personally imagining Tarquin won't die at all; not just because dying like a complete badass is exactly what he wants (and he's mentioned the prospect of some random peasant taking him out when he got old didn't bother him when he got into this, so it's really just a plus for him), but because Elan's not that kind of person. If he feels morally obligated to save Nale, who is evil, hates him, and will never, ever stop trying to kill him as things stand, he'd probably also want to find another way around killing Tarquin, who is evil, loves him, and only gains in his own view from dying at Elan's hands.

I'd imagine they'd find something less dramatic; not killing Tarquin, but taking away his power in some way and leaving him with some manner of cool and unusual punishment. For some reason, I imagine Elan's mom involved somehow. :smalltongue:

[Emperordaniel]

I'd imagine they'd find something less dramatic; not killing Tarquin, but taking away his power in some way and leaving him with some manner of cool and unusual punishment. For some reason, I imagine Elan's mom involved somehow. :smalltongue:

Now I'm picturing something similar to the series finale of Avatar: The Last Airbender, where Avatar Aang stripped the Big Bad of the series, Phoenix King Ozai, of his firebending - the source of his power - without killing him. Elan has referenced the show in conversation with Tarquin before, so...who knows? :smalltongue:

[Forikroder]

I have that pet theory that Tarquin will sacrifice himself to delay Xykon, yhus allowing Elan to go on to protect the Gate.

He only win because of well-timed heal/buff, kill Xykon, and when he begins to wonder where the heal/buff come from Redcloak exit the shadows and coup-de-grace him; "don't worry, for your help your name will be legend for the Goblin Nation".

Or he could conquer the Heavens and become a god, looks good either way.

and then Redcloak realises hes down the epic spellcaster he needs to activate the ritual?

[Toy Killer]

Plenty of spell casters have been featured (Nale, V, Z, the entire school in Cliffport), Not to mention that he has an entire nation of goblinoids who statistically have to have at least a few arcane magic users in their midst. And I think he would be most satisfied by having a Goblin or Hobgoblin spell caster complete the ritual. Probably one that has passing mention or will be introduced shortly.

Perhaps right-eye's daughter?

[Kish]

and then Redcloak realises hes down the epic spellcaster he needs to activate the ritual?

vx-[ppphnjjjjjjmmmmmmmlpo;'[;'/1) Why why why will this meme that the Dark One's ritual requires epic-level spellcasters rather than mid-level ones not die?
2) No, then Qarr appears behind Redcloak and says, "Yes, heh heh, my employers have instructed me to help you with this ritual of yours!" Or Redcloak explains why the arcane spellcaster needed for the ritual will be Zz'dtri, or a hobgoblin in a chartreuse cloak, or the creature in the darkness.

(Not that I think this is going to happen. Redcloak supposedly needing an epic-level arcane spellcaster for the ritual is not the reason it will not, however.)

Editing provided by my cat, who is unimpressed with the meme in question.

[JCAll]

I'd imagine they'd find something less dramatic; not killing Tarquin, but taking away his power in some way and leaving him with some manner of cool and unusual punishment. For some reason, I imagine Elan's mom involved somehow. :smalltongue:

I hear the Order have an opening in the Litter Box Department.
Though Elan would probably object to that.

[asphias]

what most of you keep forgetting, is right in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html

"and hey, i was willing to take that deal when it was just some random peasant schmuck taking me out. now i can really see the big picture. its YOU elan, if anyone will ever defeat me, it will be you!"

so no, tarquin already thinks he has won if he rules for some 30 years and then dies to some random peasant.

i'm afraid letting him live, but without an empire, sounds like the best option to avert his idea of winning.

[Kish]

Assuming what Tarquin says there should be treated as gospel truth--which it should not--I fail to see how "let him rule for 30 years and then lock him up*" would be more thoroughly defeating him than, "let him rule for 30 years and then kill him, without making him a legend."

*Presumably, you're proposing incarceration, not just taking the empires away from him and counting on him not to start over.

[Wightsbane]

I'd imagine they'd find something less dramatic; not killing Tarquin, but taking away his power in some way and leaving him with some manner of cool and unusual punishment. For some reason, I imagine Elan's mom involved somehow. :smalltongue:

That would be awesome, if only because if Nale finds out that her ideas are as needlessly complicated as his, then he would be wasting even more time trying to come up with too many alternatives to her too many counters to his too many plans... and be too busy having another aneurism to get in anybody's way except for his own troops :smalltongue:

[Tergon]

See, this is why I stand by my "Heroic Death" theory. It fits all the blocks and it's what Tarquin deserves. He'll die as cannon fodder at the hands of someone far more evil, powerful and famous than him. He won't get his epic duel with Elan and force his own son to kill him. Nobody present will tell his story for the ages and let him win. And he'll die fighting an Evil character, performing at technically Good act, which will nudge his soul toward Neutral, which he almost certainly would despise.

It also fits with his character - Tarquin actually likes the world and doesn't want to see it unmade by the Snarl. He wants to be the one who lives like a king, so he doesn't want to play second fiddle to Xykon and/or Redcloak. And whatever else is true, he genuinely cares about Elan, and I do believe that Tarquin would willingly (if grudgingly) sacrifice himself to save his son's life in a scenario other than the climactic duel that he wants so badly.

It's a karmic death for Tarquin to be killed by a Bigger Bad. It's a Crowning Moment of Awesome to see him charge in and save his son. It gives him the sort of death a cool character deserves while denying him his Legendary Status story, so the good guys still win. Hell, it even gives Elan some "You killed my father, prepare to die" points (Yeah, the kobolds used that joke, but it's always good for a recall.) Or if not Elan, we might get to see Malack flip his wig at the sight of his friend dying, and you just know that's a show worth seeing.

I'm telling you, Tarqin dies a heroic death saving Elan, because it's exactly as awesome as he deserves.

[Emperordaniel]

And he'll die fighting an Evil character, performing at technically Good act, which will nudge his soul toward Neutral, which he almost certainly would despise.

I don't think Tarquin would despise it - he doesn't even believe in alignments, after all.

[Incom]

Yeah, although Tarq is clearly LE, he doesn't like people thinking of him that way and might actually prefer the TN afterlife (since it's the closest thing to "screw the alignment system" you can get in DnD IMO).

I'm thinking Tarquin either gets offed by Team Evil in the next couple strips or is gonna stick around until towards the end of the story. Depends entirely on where Team Evil is right now and if Z's teleport destination is anywhere nearby.

[Man on Fire]

I once wrote theory on tvtropes about it - I belive Xykon will kill Tarquin, while monologuing how HE is the BBEG here and Tarquin is just a minor character.

[Tergon]

I meant more for the sake of his story. He may not subscribe to the classic alignment tables, but most people clearly do (with varying levels of nuance and subtlety in how they see it). Spending his life performing evil acts and then dying while performing a good one is at best a cliche and at worst it makes him look like a fool. He'd hate that.

Plus, if he wants to enjoy his fame, the Gods also follow the alignment system. Assuming Tarquin isn't unmade by the Snarl and nothing untoward happens to his soul, he's going somewhere when he dies. As it stands, if he showed up in the Lawful Evil afterlife after spending his entire life being the magnificent bastard that he is, they'd make him a new poster boy. Showing up in the Neutral afterlife? "Meh, new guy." I don't think he'd be pleased.