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View Full Version : I am a Rogue Fighter in a Fighter That Is Rogue



willpell
2012-08-11, 08:39 AM
And I fight rogues who have gone rogue while piloting fighters. In other words, I'm using the briefly-described variant classes of Unearthed Arcana, where the Rogue and the Fighter trade their class features.


Fighter

Some fighters prefer stealth and cunning over martial skill. This variant can also be combined with the thug variant.

Gain
Sneak attack (as rogue).

Lose
Bonus feats.



Rogue

The rogue who favors martial training over stealth and cunning can profit if she chooses her fights carefully.

Gain
Bonus feats (as fighter).

Lose
Sneak attack.


These variants simply swap one or more of that class's features for one or more class features of another class. A class feature gained works just as it did for its original class, including the level at which it is gained and any other effects, except as noted below.

I have two questions regarding a Rogue built using the second variant (the first one has nothing to do with my question, I just tossed it in there for the sake of symmetry). Since he doesn't have an actual Fighter level, I'd assume he can't take Weapon Specialization when he gets to Rogue 4 and gains his third FBF. Is it instead possible for him to multiclass between "rogue with fighter bonus feats" and the actual PBH Fighter class? That way, he could go Rogue 2 / Fighter 3, pick up a feat every level for his first four levels (and an extra one at level 3), then add one more Fighter level, take Weapon Spec (along with a second "any" feat since he's now level 6), and then go back to advancing as a Rogue, gaining still more FBFs, potentially including Weapon Spec for additional weapons (I'm aware you can't stack them for the same weapon).

Does this seem like a tactic deserving of book-throw, or is it a perfectly legitimate attempt at a build that isn't normally possible? If you disapprove of the player gaining four feats in four levels, would you allow him to use his variant-Rogue level to pick up Weapon Spec?

Salanmander
2012-08-11, 08:48 AM
And I fight rogues who have gone rogue while piloting fighters. In other words, I'm using the briefly-described variant classes of Unearthed Arcana, where the Rogue and the Fighter trade their class features.








I have two questions regarding a Rogue built using the second variant (the first one has nothing to do with my question, I just tossed it in there for the sake of symmetry). Since he doesn't have an actual Fighter level, I'd assume he can't take Weapon Specialization when he gets to Rogue 4 and gains his third FBF. Is it instead possible for him to multiclass between "rogue with fighter bonus feats" and the actual PBH Fighter class? That way, he could go Rogue 2 / Fighter 3, pick up a feat every level for his first four levels (and an extra one at level 3), then add one more Fighter level, take Weapon Spec (along with a second "any" feat since he's now level 6), and then go back to advancing as a Rogue, gaining still more FBFs, potentially including Weapon Spec for additional weapons (I'm aware you can't stack them for the same weapon).

Does this seem like a tactic deserving of book-throw, or is it a perfectly legitimate attempt at a build that isn't normally possible? If you disapprove of the player gaining four feats in four levels, would you allow him to use his variant-Rogue level to pick up Weapon Spec?

Sounds completely reasonable to me. Rogue-with-bonus-feats is certainly a different class from fighter. That many bonus feats will certainly let many builds "come online" quickly, but I doubt it's going to break any games.

darksolitaire
2012-08-11, 08:49 AM
Weapon Specialization gives +2 additional damage with one weapon type, there's hardly anything game breaking there. And by picking the bonus feats, you are losing potential damage from sneak attack. I don't think anyone who knows their D&D would disallow Rogue getting to pick the feat.

Ditto for picking four feats in four levels, I don't think there's anything (save some TO shenanigans) that would invite book throwing. Might seem strong for some low-optimization groups though.

God Imperror
2012-08-11, 08:51 AM
Take note that there are LOADS of feats that you might think that should be fighter bonus feats but they are not. You will be really limited.

Zombimode
2012-08-11, 08:53 AM
Is it instead possible for him to multiclass between "rogue with fighter bonus feats" and the actual PBH Fighter class?

Yes. ACF's (thats Alternative Class Features) have no effect on multiclassing or anything else for that matter that is not directly correlated to the class features.

Anything that has "sneak attack" as a requirement can not be taken with this rouge ACF, if you have no other source of SA.


There is nothing worth book-throwing here. You gain something by giving something up. You are using the provided character options without shady reading or favorable interpretation.

willpell
2012-08-11, 11:54 AM
Take note that there are LOADS of feats that you might think that should be fighter bonus feats but they are not. You will be really limited.

Those I'm not above houseruling to count, if I'm confident it won't break anything. Reckless Offense (which for no visible reason is in the XPH) is the foremost example to me; I'm this close to outright declaring it an FBF for my games.

Kelb_Panthera
2012-08-11, 09:55 PM
I agree with everyone else, there's nothing ambiguous about multiclassing between feat rogue and standard fighter to get 4 feats in four levels. Hell, you can do the exact same thing by going fighter 2/psychic warrior 2.

I would however deny that the feat rogue is a fighter for the purposes of picking weapon spec and the like. Rogue levels are not fighter levels, even if they get the same class feature.

willpell
2012-08-12, 12:19 AM
I agree with everyone else, there's nothing ambiguous about multiclassing between feat rogue and standard fighter to get 4 feats in four levels. Hell, you can do the exact same thing by going fighter 2/psychic warrior 2.

Six bonus feats in six levels.... drool

Kelb_Panthera
2012-08-12, 02:14 AM
Six bonus feats in six levels.... drool

It's really not that big a deal. A fighter 20 or feat rogue 20 gets almost as many feats as levels anyway, especially if he's human.

I'm glad you got the response you were hoping for though. :smallsmile:

kitcik
2012-08-13, 11:15 AM
Thank goodness you are not a Rouge Fighter. Just for that you get +++