Help me Artifice this gun

[EliteChoboHax]

Hey all ;)

Im going to be playing an artificer soon and i had an idea for a magic gun, but im not sure i've got the right grasp on calculating it, even after reading the Artificers Handbook. So , im hoping someone could help me, here goes:

Subject: Single Shot Gun, fires regular metal bullets, masterwork

Goal: To have this gun automatically reload its chamber after a bullet is fired, essentially making it usable as many times in a round as you have actions. Added bonus, i would like it to be able to "swap" ammo between various metal types like Adamantite, Cold iron, etc.

I've looked through the spells and decided on Major Creation, a level 5 spell, to base this effect on, as it can create any type of metal i'd like

Now, as Major Creation is able to produce virtually limitless items, and i only want it to produce a single bullet at a time, i'd like to reduce the Command Word Cost of 1800 to something much lower. I went with 500gp instead, but im not sure if thats the right price to base it on - Am i too low or too high? In any case, i need it calculated somehow. As a level 7 Artificer with both the 25% reduction Gold Cost and Exp Cost feats

My own result came to 3.282gp and 99xp as total cost, but im not sure if thats correct at all - Artificing can be a little confusing and i really need to be 100% sure how it all works, as im the first to play one and my GM doesnt really know them all that well and i dont want to get accused of cheating, so i better get this straight

Halp! ;)

[Fouredged Sword]

There is a magic enchantment for crossbows that reloads them out of a pre-loaded magic space. Can't remember where it is though.

[MatrixQ]

Isn't there something like an endless quiver? Maybe you can compare your costs with that.

However, you should probably agree with your GM, that the bullets are not worth anything and can't be used as craft material or anything. That will probably cut down the costs quite a bit. Otherwise you could shoot at the ground for half an hour and have your costs back :smallwink:

Edit:
Since the create spell can provide a huge amount of material, maybe you can apply the x per day option for the costs. Divide the total cost by 5 for 1 per day, which should be more than enough bullets for a day, so the cost should work out like that.

[EliteChoboHax]

The rare metals, such as Adamantite, summoned with Major Creation lasts for only 1 round per level, so it wont be an unlimited supply of materials in any way.

[MatrixQ]

Right, but I didn't mean to actually put the spell on it, just to use it to emulate your idea.

I've got another idea though:
Create the gun, so it has multiple chambers with different ammunition, and you can switch what kind of ammunition you use with a free action. After that, you enchant the gun with the Indisputable Possession Infusion from the Magic of Eberron book. Instead of creating and firing the bullets, it fires an existing bullet and calls it back to you, once it hits. It's a level 1 infusion, so it should be fairly cheap to make.

[EliteChoboHax]

Thats actually not a bad idea at all - I'd have to get my hands on the rare metals and craft the bullets myself, but its a pretty good idea. I assume i'd need to pay for several castings of the infusion, considering there will be several different ammos

How much would 6 infusions made permanent (To symbolize a 6 shooter for coolness) cost?

Caster level x spell level x 1800 (Since it going to use the excact thing the infusion can do, full price would be warranted here, but i assume you could make the gun be able to magically appear in your hand as well for that price - in case its stolen og you drop it or whatever)

So, thats 1800 base gp, as well as 72xp cost (Per infusion cast)

Now, this would be the market price right? So i can divide that with 2, to get the crafting price of 900gp and 36xp

With the discount feats of 25%, we hit 675gp and 27xp - Per cast (Let me know if i messed up in the math somewhere)

So, in total, if we imagine that im going to need 6 enchants:

4050gp and 162xp - Correct? In theory we could halve that, but saying that 2 chambers out of the 6 has Adamantite, 2 has Alchemical Silver and 2 has Mithral

Thats: 2025gp and 81xp instead

Hopefully someone who has created a buckload of items are able to tell me if these calculations are right or wrong and where i went wrong if i did

[MatrixQ]

I think you'll only need one enchantment. If you enchant a ranged weapon, the ammunition gets enchanted automatically when you fire it.

It would be a use activated item rather than command word (I imagine you'd want it to go off by pulling the trigger, not by yelling "Bang!" :smalltongue: ), so it would be 2000 gold base cost, but that should be fine. Since the infusion duration is measured in minutes, you'll need to multiply that by 2 (that's in the DMG below the magic item cost table), so the gun would cost you 4000 gold market price. Subtract the "doing it yourself" and feat, and it'll cost you 1500 gold and 120 XP (remember that XP is based on market price, not gold spend to create). You might want to add a second version of the spell, that lets you return the weapon to you, since having one enchantment count for both bullets and gun itself might be a bit much.

And you wouldn't have to determine the kind of ammunition beforehand. Just put whatever bullets you need into the gun, and you'll be good to go. Though changing the ammunition should probably take some time (say a minute or so), so the gun has at least a bit of a drawback, if you don't have the right ammunition loaded. You can say the gun needs to get reset to the new ammunition and that's why it takes that long.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Here's my version, though I do wonder what exactly is wrong with a +1 quick-loading (+1 enhancement) hand crossbow.

Take the aforementioned crossbow, remove the bow portion and spend 12,000 to add a use activated catapult spell. Hollow out the handle and make that the load-point for the quick-load extra dimensional space. Load it with "clips" of bolts as needed.

Total cost 8000 for the X-bow plus 1200 for the catapult effect equals 9200 for what's basically a handgun with a 30ft range increment that does 1d4+2 damage per hit.

Honestly, I'd rather skip the extra cost and just use the X-bow and pick up X-bow sniper to extend my sneak attack range and add some dex to the damage roll.

Edit: The same effect could be done with an actuall gun by using the renaissance era handgun from the DMG. That'll up the damage to 1d10+2. The catapult effect removes the need for gun/smoke- powder, and quick-loading makes it a repeater.

[EliteChoboHax]

Thanks MatrixQ, finally someone who did some math for me ;) Its a good suggestion to have it take a minute to change the ammo, it does make it a bit more balanced considering its relatively low cost, but im thinking i'll go the Major Creation way instead, so i can have the ammunition change by uttering a single word while holding it. Its gonna cost more ofcourse, but its worth it for the coolness factor :D

And for Kelb: The thing thats wrong with that hand crossbow, is excactly that, its a crossbow - Im permitted to have a gun, a duster and an Indy Hat - Why not do it? Also, in the steampunk setting my GM created, guns are very very powerful, but they are 1 shot guns, taking 1-3 rounds to reload - I want to avoid excactly that by building my own - Also its just more fun to have made your own thing, instead of basically any magic item from the DMG

[MatrixQ]

Though I am not sure how you get to your very low price. Major creation is a 5th level spell. The price is calculated as
spell level x caster level x 1800
The caster level here is 9, the lowest level a wizard can cast the spell. The resulting cost would be:
5 x 9 x 1800 = 81000 gold market price.
The price to create it on your own would then be
81000 x 0,5 x 0,75 = 30375 gold
and the xp cost would be
81000 x 0,04 x 0,75 = 2430 XP

You could probably reduce it quite a bit by saying that it only creates bullets, not anything you want, but that would involve bargaining with your DM. This would be the numbers by the book.

[Kelb_Panthera]

What about the option I added to the end of my post. Use a renaissance era pistol, with the quickloading enhancement and catapult effect? It's a gun, that reloads as a free action and fires without powder. You can fire a shot with every attack in your full attack that'd deal 1d10+2 per hit.

[panaikhan]

When I try to make unique items for myself, I find the mechanics first, and refluff later.

There is a Warforged Weapon, the ArmBow (I think) that has a limited ammo supply of it's own, but leeches your HP if you want more. It might give you the 'mechanics' of auto-load to shoe-horn behind your 'fluff'.
As for different metal types, there is an enchantment that changes a weapon to deal with material damage reductions... and the name of that escapes me as well (I'm sure it was in the Magical Item Compendium)

[panaikhan]

Another option, check out firearms and firearm enchantments in Pathfinder