Riding dogs are messed up.

[Snowbluff]

So, I am doing a fight based game with a couple of buddies of mine, and I have this dog... named Dog.

After carrying the party ( A level one Swordsage, and a Level 1 DRUID) for the first session mostly unstatted, he needs some feats.

Now, I am planning on keeping him around for as long as I can for a running gag (that and nearly killing the Swordsage with Alchemical Fire), and I need some of the wall stuff to do with him.

First thing first, he is receiving Warbeast Training between sessions, and will be HD 3. He is also getting a set of barding.

What's the feat that makes Share Spell have more range? It seems to me the spells I share stop working after my dog moves out of range.

I was going to start with some Bind Vestige, but I don't know much about binding, can someone give me some tips? What vestige would be useful?

Also, I was also going to take Shape Soulmeld, just for the additional wonkiness in the form of the "I jacked a class feature from a player class" variety. Are their any other class feature I can get from feats? What Soulmeld should I pick up?

[Coidzor]

The feat you're thinking of is probably Companion Spellbond from PHB 2. Out to 30 feet.

There's a soulmeld that gives Evasion, IIRC. Don't recall the name though.

[lord pringle]

The feat you're thinking of is probably Companion Spellbond from PHB 2. Out to 30 feet.

There's a soulmeld that gives Evasion, IIRC. Don't recall the name though.

Impulse boots, IIRC.

[Gotterdammerung]

The feat you're thinking of is probably Companion Spellbond from PHB 2. Out to 30 feet.

There's a soulmeld that gives Evasion, IIRC. Don't recall the name though.

Enspell Familiar is a feat from the Dragon Compendium. It is much better than companion spellbond.

It gives you a 1 mile range

[KillianHawkeye]

Enspell Familiar is a feat from the Dragon Compendium. It is much better than companion spellbond.

It gives you a 1 mile range

Somehow, I'm guessing that it only works on familiars, not animal companions.

[Coidzor]

It does specify familiar in both requirement and benefit from what I've read.

Now, if houseruling is on the table, an urban companion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) might be something one could argue for and get with some level of reasonableness... or they could have just houseruled for Enspell Familiar to just apply to all things with the share spells tag because houseruling.

[Khedrac]

First thing first, he is receiving Warbeast Training between sessions, and will be HD 3.The DM needs to house-rule this in - an animal companion has to be a normal member of the species before companion effects. Also Warbeasts are not listed as a viable animal companion type.

Essentially RAW on companions you cannot template them at all - they have to be a basic animal of a listed type.

As for armour, yes barding is great - seeing if you can get the party arcanist to cast Mage Armor can work better later on.

[The Random NPC]

The DM needs to house-rule this in - an animal companion has to be a normal member of the species before companion effects. Also Warbeasts are not listed as a viable animal companion type.

Essentially RAW on companions you cannot template them at all - they have to be a basic animal of a listed type.

As for armour, yes barding is great - seeing if you can get the party arcanist to cast Mage Armor can work better later on.

Unless I'm mistaken, it isn't a template. Warbeast training is a beast, that has been trained for war.

EDIT:Nothing to see here, move along.

[Daftendirekt]

Unless I'm mistaken, it isn't a template. Warbeast training is a beast, that has been trained for war.

You are mistaken. Warbeast is a template. Monster Manual II, page 219.

[GenghisDon]

yes, but riding dogs & war horses essentially already have that training.

animals in general are horribly statted & handled in d20 D&D, so yes, riding dogs are messed up. Even their name & very concept are rediculous, though they statisticly suit a "war dog" somewhat.

[Urpriest]

Unless I'm mistaken, it isn't a template. Warbeast training is a beast, that has been trained for war.

Others have touched on the template aspect. Another relevant point is that Warbeasts are not trained for war necessarily, rather (read the description) they are bred for war. A warbeast can lack training and still be a warbeast, since the warbeast traits are inherited (not in the template sense since that concept didn't exist yet). Because of this, training a preexisting creature as a warbeast is highly dubious. That said, if the OP has got it past his DM, more power to him.

[GenghisDon]

ok, riding dogs & war horses also have that breeding.

[Urpriest]

ok, riding dogs & war horses also have that breeding.

Yes precisely. You've hit upon the third reason why this whole setup fails.

[The Random NPC]

You are mistaken. Warbeast is a template. Monster Manual II, page 219.

That would explain it, I'm not as familiar with any of the Monster Manuals other than the first.

[Mnemnosyne]

A warbeast is an acquired template, not an inherited one. Under the warbeast entry, there's specific instructions for training a warbeast. If the base creature is a domestic animal, it doesn't even need to be specially reared, it can just be trained. Riding dogs are domestic animals, so even if you acquire a fully-grown riding dog, you can still train it as a warbeast with a DC 20 Handle Animal check; it takes 2 months.

As for an animal companion not being able to acquire the warbeast template...not exactly. It's likely intended that an animal companion be normal, but that is not what the rules say.

A 1st-level druid’s companion is completely typical for its kind except as noted in the sidebar on page 36.
Due to the "a 1st-level druid's" specification in that sentence, that limitation only applies to a 1st level druid. The only RAW limit I see on an animal companion being a normal member of its species is at 1st level, as well as what animals can initially be called to become animal companions in the first place (at any level) - the rules limit acquisition of animal companions, but nothing limits changes made to them after acquisition.

[Urpriest]

A warbeast is an acquired template, not an inherited one. Under the warbeast entry, there's specific instructions for training a warbeast. If the base creature is a domestic animal, it doesn't even need to be specially reared, it can just be trained. Riding dogs are domestic animals, so even if you acquire a fully-grown riding dog, you can still train it as a warbeast with a DC 20 Handle Animal check; it takes 2 months.


Please actually read the template in question. There are indeed instructions for training a warbeast, just like there are instructions for training any animal. The section specifies that a warbeast can be reared and trained just as the base creature can, and then goes into detail by listing the relevant 3.0 Handle Animal rules. If that section were absent, you would assume that warbeasts, as inherently domestic (in the D&D sense) creatures, were always trained as domestic creatures, with two months of training and a DC 20 check, no rearing required. Instead, they are treated as the base creature.

That section does not, except under rather extravagant wishful thinking, provide rules for turning an animal that is not a warbeast into a warbeast. Note that the section specifies that vermin, completely legal targets for the warbeast template, cannot be trained. Further, the template gives the Combative Mount ability, which specifically applies only to those warbeasts that have gone through the training described in the sidebar. If warbeasts were the result of training a preexisting non-warbeast animal, then vermin warbeasts could not exist and all warbeasts would have the Combative Mount ability.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Also, I was also going to take Shape Soulmeld, just for the additional wonkiness in the form of the "I jacked a class feature from a player class" variety. Are their any other class feature I can get from feats? What Soulmeld should I pick up?

Blink Shirt gets you shortrange standard action teleports. Impulse Boots gets you Evasion. Airstep Sandals for Flight. Mage's Spectacles for UMD bonuses.

[Rubik]

Blink Shirt gets you shortrange standard action teleports. Impulse Boots gets you Evasion. Airstep Sandals for Flight. Mage's Spectacles for UMD bonuses.When you're higher level you can use one of the Open Chakra spells to bind the phase cloak on both your and your dog's shoulders slots; now you can ride him through walls, floors, and ceilings, and never have to hoist him with a rope-and-pulley system up vertical inclines again!

[nedz]

... Mage's Spectacles for UMD bonuses.

Wow - a UMD Riding Dog, now that would be something.:smallbiggrin:

Shame you can't give them levels of Wizard.:smallsmile:

[Snowbluff]

Okay, so no warbeast.

I have been paying attention to the thread, but I've been a little busy. Thanks for the help guys!

[Rubik]

How about some of these (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm)?

A dog who runs up walls FTW!

[Kelb_Panthera]

When you're higher level you can use one of the Open Chakra spells to bind the phase cloak on both your and your dog's shoulders slots; now you can ride him through walls, floors, and ceilings, and never have to hoist him with a rope-and-pulley system up vertical inclines again!

Only if you also take the feat that lets you share soulmelds in the first place. It's not something you can do by default.

[Coidzor]

How about some of these (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm)?

A dog who runs up walls FTW!

Mostly I just wish there was a Riding version of the Climbdog.

[Snowbluff]

How about some of these (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm)?

A dog who runs up walls FTW!

Okay, so here are the class feature I am jacking.

Soulmelds (Shape Souldmeld)

Vestiges (Bind Vestige)

Psionics (Hidden Talent) Well I would, if Dog had the Cha for it. Still, some psionic feats sounds good.

UMD would not work, since I think he would need hands to use wands.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Okay, so here are the class feature I am jacking.

Soulmelds (Shape Souldmeld)

Vestiges (Bind Vestige)

Psionics (Hidden Talent) Well I would, if Dog had the Cha for it. Still, some psionic feats sounds good.

UMD would not work, since I think he would need hands to use wands.

Be aware that while these are RAW legal, except for the UMD, a DM would be well within his rights to say that a creature of animal intelligence simply doesn't have the necessary patience or understanding to shape a soulmeld or bind a vestige.

[nedz]

... UMD would not work, since I think he would need hands to use wands.

Wands are simply spell completion devices, just give the dog a bone.

UMD would be cross-class though, and their Charisma is not exceptional.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Wands are simply spell completion devices, just give the dog a bone.

UMD would be cross-class though, and their Charisma is not exceptional.

UMD would be primarily obtained by the feat Shape Soulmeld (Mage's Spectacles). But ranks would probably come in handy as well.

[Kazyan]

Dog: GRRRRRWROUF.
Naberius: Fine, fine, as long as you sniff something interesting.

[Snowbluff]

Be aware that while these are RAW legal, except for the UMD, a DM would be well within his rights to say that a creature of animal intelligence simply doesn't have the necessary patience or understanding to shape a soulmeld or bind a vestige.

It's a rather smash and grab campaign. This should be fine, and I think the comedic value would win over my DM.


Wands are simply spell completion devices, just give the dog a bone.

UMD would be cross-class though, and their Charisma is not exceptional.

If I give him a bone wand, his mouth would be too full to bite people. :smallfrown:


Dog: GRRRRRWROUF.
Naberius: Fine, fine, as long as you sniff something interesting.

Lololol. Yep. You get it. :smallcool:

[Quietus]

If I give him a bone wand, his mouth would be too full to bite people. :smallfrown:

Spiked barding with wand chambers?

[Snowbluff]

Spiked barding with wand chambers?

Those are going to have to be some big spikes. IIRC, the weapon has to be at least one-handed for the hilt to be considered large enough for wand chambers. :smalltongue:

EDIT: The spikes might be good for manufactured attacks, though. I'll have to look into it.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I was going to suggest a mouthpick weapon, then I realised that the dog would still need proficiency.

Maybe Large spikes? Eat the -2 penalty?

Actually, can you even GET Large spikes on medium armor?

[dextercorvia]

Those are going to have to be some big spikes. IIRC, the weapon has to be at least one-handed for the hilt to be considered large enough for wand chambers. :smalltongue:

EDIT: The spikes might be good for manufactured attacks, though. I'll have to look into it.

You can explicitly put a wand chamber in a shield. How about a puppy buckler?

[Coidzor]

I must admit, I'd been trying to figure out a good way to get my own riding dog companion a somewhat relevant attack, haha x.x

Then the group fragmented.

[nedz]

Wands are simply spell completion devices, just give the dog a bone.If I give him a bone wand, his mouth would be too full to bite people. :smallfrown:
You could always hang some objects on his collar.

Maybe it would be easier to make some potions as scooby snacks.

[Urpriest]

I was going to suggest a mouthpick weapon, then I realised that the dog would still need proficiency.


Nope! Mouthpick weapons actually grant proficiency. It's very good for those of us who really like the idea of Spiked Chain wielding Krakens.

[Coidzor]

Nope! Mouthpick weapons actually grant proficiency. It's very good for those of us who really like the idea of Spiked Chain wielding Krakens.

At least, as long as it's a Mouthpick (the property) weapon rather than a mouthpick the weapon. And the Mouthpick property is definitely the superior option. Once I have the cash to spend on a +2 equivalent weapon, that's what I'm getting my character's riding dog, if that game ever continues via the internet anyway.

At least I think there's some kind of weapon actually called a mouthpick. From one of the dragon-related books, I want to say...