The Unmighty Fihyr

[CthulhuEatYou]

I've always loved the Fihyr because of its fluff, but have to admit, that it's CR, like any other monster of the MMII, is grossly miscalculated. This isn't so bad in my case however, reading somewhere that the Greater Fihyr was a CR 8 rather than a CR 15. I'm hosting a 3.5e d&d game for some of my friends, their characters is between level 6-7, all semi optimized (meaning, good for their level, but not broken). Is the Greater Fihyr an appropriate boss challenge for them?

More Details:
We have a rouge (assassin build), Cleric Healer + melee (rolled great attributes, lets keep it at that), a Fighter and a Wizard.
There will be no sunlight in the environment, and since the Fihyr's Emotion Control Ability is useless, I'm adding Cause Fear at will instead and Wrack 2/day, Caster level 8 for balance, (Spell Compendium 243) as a hidden surprise for my heroes.

Is this appropriate? So far I haven't been able to challenge them very much, since they are smart combatwise and semi-optimized. Also, any ideas for changes to the creature is appreciated.

[Zombimode]

1. Yeah, CR 15? That's BS

2. Buuuuut: the Fihyr is not a monster you drop in a dungeon room and expect to have a balanced level-appropriate fight. If you do that, you are using the monster wrong. Fihyrs are tools for adventure/campaign building, they are plot obstacles, they can be used to enhance an already dire situation. They are however not main antagonists or huge threats by themselves.

3. This ties in with the second point: the Emotion Control ability is not useless. It only is if you think of the Greater Fihyr as a combat encounter.
Reread its entry: the Greater Fihyr has no motivation whatsoever to break its invisibility and actually attack the party. It wants to feed of emotions and its Emotion Control ability let it just do that.

If you want to use the monster right, do something like: the party explores a spooky dungeon. There is a Greater Fihyr. It spots the party and closes in using its Emotion Control ability. DONT tell the players that there is a creature. Describe the effects of the ability and tell them the mechanical effects. Then let them proceed. THEN other stuff happens.
The Fihyr is an extra, not the main dish.

[CthulhuEatYou]

1. Yeah, CR 15? That's BS

2. Buuuuut: the Fihyr is not a monster you drop in a dungeon room and expect to have a balanced level-appropriate fight. If you do that, you are using the monster wrong. Fihyrs are tools for adventure/campaign building, they are plot obstacles, they can be used to enhance an already dire situation. They are however not main antagonists or huge threats by themselves.

3. This ties in with the second point: the Emotion Control ability is not useless. It only is if you think of the Greater Fihyr as a combat encounter.
Reread its entry: the Greater Fihyr has no motivation whatsoever to break its invisibility and actually attack the party. It wants to feed of emotions and its Emotion Control ability let it just do that.

If you want to use the monster right, do something like: the party explores a spooky dungeon. There is a Greater Fihyr. It spots the party and closes in using its Emotion Control ability. DONT tell the players that there is a creature. Describe the effects of the ability and tell them the mechanical effects. Then let them proceed. THEN other stuff happens.
The Fihyr is an extra, not the main dish.

I'm Using the Fihyr because of the plot, I'm aware that means I have to tweak It, alot. However, try reading up on the Control Emotion ability, it uses the Emotion spell, which doesn't exist in 3.5. Making it useless.

It will be fed, and the players will have to outsmart it, so to speak, to get to it. It will not attack them willingly, feeding of their emotions until they do. It's an "thinking" encounter rather than a power and brawn encounter, until the final moment.

[GenghisDon]

So Emotion was broken up into pieces...give them all the pieces. Rage, Fear, ect. Make some up if need be.

Certainly feel free to fix CR or anything else about a monster, or change it entirely if it suits you.

If you WANT an Fihr as a combat critter, adjust like crazy. You're doing the "right" thing, looking at your PC's capabilities to gauge what's a challenge for them.

I think you are underestimating the PC's, probably, however. Cause fear isn't of any use vs L6-7 characters, unless you have hand waved the 5 HD limit away or intend for it to be used on cohorts, mounts, pets or maybe animal companions.

[CthulhuEatYou]

Nah, couldn't remember the names of any other Fear spells, so I was lazy and went with what I remembered. Will use a better version. The Rage spell is a buff spell, so would make no sense in this case, can't remember than name of the spell that causes players to go berserk, except for Confusion. The Crushing Despair is great however, so will add that, with a few tweaks.

Edit: Will use the Fear spell instead.

[sonofzeal]

Nah, couldn't remember the names of any other Fear spells, so I was lazy and went with what I remembered. Will use a better version. The Rage spell is a buff spell, so would make no sense in this case, can't remember than name of the spell that causes players to go berserk, except for Confusion. The Crushing Despair is great however, so will add that, with a few tweaks.

Edit: Will use the Fear spell instead.
Rage can be a buff spell. It "functions like a Barbarian's Rage" though, so what happens if you toss it on... say, the 8 Str Wizard? Or the Finesse Rogue who's already struggling for AC?

[CthulhuEatYou]

Nah, targets have to be willing :(

Could edit it, however, that may be a bit overpowered against mages.

[Fable Wright]

Nah, targets have to be willing :(

Could edit it, however, that may be a bit overpowered against mages.

Well, if Control Emotions could be used to create a Rage effect, and didn't only target Willing creatures, why should the Rage effect work that way? Just give it a Will save, let it affect hostiles, and call it a day.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

You could always just handwave in the 3.0 Emotions spell. No worries.

[GenghisDon]

Looking at it, and the origonal from 2e, you could just use the 3e MM2 version as is, & call it CR 8.

If you wanted more like the origonal, it needs a bit of work, although it's a very "straight" convertion as it is. Of course, that makes it very whimpy when it was a fairly strong critter in 2e.

Some things even a "straight" conversion failed on...AC (total) should have been 22. I'd make the emotion control a SU power, and take ability focus for it (DC 22). emotion control can act as Rage, Fear, Crushing Depair, perhaps other spells.