A Little Bit o' the Book of Nine Swords

[Andorax]

One thing that always stood out to me with the Tome of Battle is that it remains useful even if it is just "splashed" in at higher levels, in no small part due to the unusual mechanic of counting 1/2 of your non-initiator levels towards your initiator level for the purpose of determing what level of maneuvers you can pick up.

While this has broad application in various character builds, I'm also quite interested in what it can do for adding a 'splash' of Tome of Battle to the creatures they party encounters. This usually falls into two categories:

1) Minor additions via feats. Between the Martial Study (up to x3) and Martial Stance feats, a certain amount of Tome of Battle-ness can be added to monsters. The problem lies in the pre-requisite maneuvers for higher level powers not playing nicely with the rate at which they can be acquired.

A monster can, for example, take (though obviously not all of):

A 1st level maneuver with their 1st or 3rd HD feat
A 2nd level maneuver with their 6th or 9th HD feat
A 3rd level maneuver with their 12th HD feat
A 4th level maneuver with their 15th HD feat
A 5th level maneuver with their 18th or 21st HD feat
A 6th level maueuver with their 24th HD feat
A 7th level maneuver with their 27th HD feat
An 8th level maneuver with their 30th or 33rd HD feat
A 9th level maneuver with their 36th or higher HD feats.


The problem lies in that many of the higher-level maneuvers require so many prerequisite maneuvers in turn that it is literally impossible to obtain them through feats alone.


2) "quick pick" additions via a single level of an Initiator class.

I'm not sure if it's a standing rule, but I've always held that any monster with a 3 or higher Int can take class levels if so desired. This gives the opportunity to provide a series of maneuvers, and even get at higher level ones, with a single class level and a +1 bump to CR (because of the 1/2 level Initiator thing, I always consider Initiator classes to be "associated" classes).

Crusaders get 5 maneuvers known at 1st level. Swordsages 6. This is enough to get access to nearly all highest-level maneuvers (given enough initial HD). Warblades only get 3 to start, but with a combination of that and pre-loading some feat-based maneuvers, even they can get the top-end abilities.


Ok, so what's this thread all about? I thought it would be interesting to take a look at some of the various ways you can add a bit of Bo9S into a monster's build and make something interesting from it. I'll be posting some of my ideas, of course, but I'd invite anyone else who cares to to join in the fun. Please try to follow the format if you can, and if you are using a third-party or homebrew maneuver or school (yes, they're welcome), please also link to them as part of the post.

[Andorax]

Page 1:
- Setting Sun Air Elementals
- Sultan of the Desert Flame (and Lesser Efreeti)
- Crusading Deva
- Storm On Stone (Storm Giant Warblade)
- Inevitable Law
- Minotaur Bullwrecker - when that initial charge just HAS to mess someone up.
- Feral, Frenzied Tigerclaw Ghouls
- Punishing Steel Ogres
- (Advanced, Greater) Shadow Assassins

[Andorax]

Setting Sun Air Elementals:

Medium Air Elemental (CR3)
Substitute: Martial Manuver (Mighty Throw) for Dodge.

Huge Air Elemental (CR7)
Substitute: Martial Maneuver x2 (Mighty Throw, Comet Throw) for Alertness and Combat Reflexes.

Elder Air Elemental (CR 11)
Substitute: Martial Maneuver x3 (Mighty Throw, Comet Throw, Ballista Throw) for Alertness, Blind-fight and Iron Will.

Air Monolith (CAr) Swordsage 1 (CR 18)
Take the full line of throws from the Setting Sun school:
Mighty Throw, Devastating Throw, Comet Throw, Soaring Throw, Ballista Throw and...Tornado Throw! With 200' of movement, Tornado Throw can create some dramatic results.



Sultan of the Desert Flame:
Advanced (30 HD) Efreeti Swordsage 2 (CR 20)
An assortment of Desert Wind maneuvers, mostly adding up to qualifying for Inferno Blast, an impressively (and appropriately) massive fire strike for a powerful fire being.

Lesser Efreeti of the Desert Flame:
Efreeti (CR 8)
Substitute: Martial Maneuver x2 (Burning Brand, Fire Ripost) for Combat Casting and Dodge.



Astral Deva Crusader 1 (CR 15)
Pick up Foehammer, Vanguard Strike, Shield Block (with a shield as added equipment), Revitalizing Strike and Divine Surge.
Iron Guard's Glare for a stance is appropriate as well.


Storm On Stone:
Stone Giant Warblade 1 (CR 14)
Overwhelming Mountain Strike, Elder Mountain Hammer, and Stone Dragon's Fury can be used to deal out some extra damage.
Pick up Punishing Stance from Iron Heart just to add that much more extra.


Inevitable Law
Advanced (HD 18) Marut Inevitable (CR 15)
Substitute: Martial Maneuver x2 (Foehammer and Lawbearer) for Great Fortitude and Improved Bull Rush.

[Spuddles]

I rebuilt the troll hunter in MM1 with swordsage instead of hunter. It teleports and throws things and has sneak attack. And can jump very long distances. It's a scary beast.

[Crasical]

Very nice. Hope to see more along these lines!

[Andorax]

There's a lot more you can do with full-on rebuilds, but I'm looking more that the +feat or +1-2 level additions, what you can add to the critters just by splashing a bit of ToB in.

[SSGoW]

My group killed a dragon and started complaining about how they steam rolled it (it wasn't the boss... They left the dungeon before meeting the parents).

However I gave 2 ancient black dragons crusader/warblade levels (the party was 8 PC's and level 20...so close to 21). Oh was it great when a dragon uses white raven tactics >:D .

They never complained again...

Note: They did win... They started doing hit and run tactics after the first person got the crap smacked out of them!

[Novawurmson]

Reminds me of some of the rebuild for the baddies in the Red Hand of Doom DM's guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171284). Very cool thread - I'll try to contribute sometime.

[Saintheart]

Swap out some feats from the Greater Shadow (MM 1) for the lower-end Shadow Hand maneuvers and stances (Shadow Jaunt, Assassin's Stance, Child of Shadow. Assassin's Stance, if you can get it, is rather nice for a living shadow that hits for STR damage only on a melee touch attack; catch someone flatfooted and they don't even have DEX bonuses to add to their AC. You could get your to-hit AC down to raw 10.

[Crasical]

Minotaur Bullwrecker (CR4)
Substitute: Martial Manuver (Charging Minotaur) for Great Fortitude, Powerful Charge for Power Attack.

Losing power attack stings, but on the upside, the minotaurs are potentially dealing 8d6 +10 points of damage on their charge, and get to bull-rush the target back for another charge next round.

Ogres only have one feat they can trade out, so there's a limit to what you can do with them. I'm tempted to say that the various schools could be modified for different ogre tribes (Desert Wind becomes the Tarblaze Tribe, with the ogres all knowing the Burning Blade manuever, ect) if you wanted some extra flavor.

[Tesla_pasta]

I approve this practice so hard.

I've been writing out Ghoul swordsages for my next campaign. Tigerclaw maneuvers for so many chances to hit with paralyzing touch, plus dat mobility.

[Runestar]

With regards to elementals, consider this.

Elder elementals get IL12 with their 24 HD. Have them spend 3 feats on 3xmartial study feats. Then add 1 lv of martial adept. This immediately lets you snag up to 7th lv maneuvers, and it should be easier to qualify now that you have a few prereq maneuvers. Also consider spending another feat getting a stance of 6th lv or lower; by its wording, the 1st of of martial adept only lets you select a 1st lv stance, regardless of your IL.

Similarly, an elder elemental swordsage5 gets 9th lv maneuvers and is cr16. Their impressive physical stats help make up for any lack of gear and maneuvers mitigate the low damage output due to their slam's low base damage.

Ogres get 2 feats. I would swap them out for steel wind and punishing stance. This lets them, in the 1st round of combat, to active the stance as a swift action, move into position, and attack 2 PCs as a standard action. You can even equip them with large reach weapons for 20-ft reach if you so desire. You can do this for any creature with at least 3-HD, but for some reason, the mental image of an ogre swatting 2 PCs simultaneously just cracks me up every time.:smallbiggrin:

Any monster with sneak attack can consider island of blades or that invisibility maneuver to help them land that extra damage more readily.

If you don't mind sinking all of a monster's skill points into concentration (or if it already has ranks in them), moment of precise mind can help stave off that 1 application of a battlefield control spell such as slow, glitterdust, sleep or colour spray, especially since monsters tend to have poor will saves.

Similarly, you know undead and constructs tend to have crap fort saves, so mind over body is a great defense against disintegrate (good for liches). Action before thought against parties that like to hurl fireballs (and better if they can access evasion somehow).

[Talya]

The Shadow Hand teleportation line (Shadow Jaunt, I think is the first one?) have no prerequisites, even the higher level ones. Very nice for Martial Study feat selections...

[Answerer]

by its wording, the 1st of of martial adept only lets you select a 1st lv stance, regardless of your IL.
Incorrect. That is a reading of the text, not the reading. The text is ambiguous since the phrase "begin play" is not a technical term defined anywhere. Whether that refers to any character taking the first level of an initiating class, or specifically to an ECL 1 Warblade 1, is not clear.

Actually, if you want to read it really literally, it would mean that when you create the character, you can only take one 1st-level stance, period. Even if you're a Warblade 20. After all, the character had only just started play. That reading would state that you can only learn more or higher-level stances stance after your first if you gain those levels during play (or you take the feat). Though then you get into a weird specific-trumps-general about which is more specific, that line or the one saying you're entitled to more and higher-level stances as you get higher in level.

Regardless, IMO, it is not good for the game to read the wording either of these ways. Treating that single case as different from every other way you might learn a maneuver is inconsistent and inelegant, and I do not consider the result desirable in the least.

[Acathala]

Also Mountain Tombstone, the 9th level Stone Dragon strike, infamously has no pre-reqs.

[Andorax]

I approve this practice so hard.

I've been writing out Ghoul swordsages for my next campaign. Tigerclaw maneuvers for so many chances to hit with paralyzing touch, plus dat mobility.

I definately like this idea...frenzied, leaping ghouls hurtling into the fray, claws and fangs flying everywhere.

I don't think you want to trade out their Multiattack, but Ghoul Swordsage 2 (CR3) is enough for:

Swapping between Blood in the Water and Hunter's Sense (a pack of ghouls that can track people down like bloodhounds).

Sudden Leap to close the gap quickly.
Wolf Fang Strike for a double-attack even with a move
Rabid Wolf Strike for that initial burst of terrifying damage and feral viciousness.
Four more 1st level maneuvers (though only one likely to be seen)...pick and choose to fit the flavor you're seeking.

Plus throwing their Wis to AC in for good measure. I like the imagery...a lot.


Swap out some feats from the Greater Shadow (MM 1) for the lower-end Shadow Hand maneuvers and stances (Shadow Jaunt, Assassin's Stance, Child of Shadow. Assassin's Stance, if you can get it, is rather nice for a living shadow that hits for STR damage only on a melee touch attack; catch someone flatfooted and they don't even have DEX bonuses to add to their AC. You could get your to-hit AC down to raw 10.

Sadly, this doesn't work out of the box...9HD isn't enough to pick up a 3rd level Stance.

However, a HD-advanced Greater Shadow can burn their Alertness feat for Shadow Jaunt or Drain Vitality, and their 12th HD feat on Martial Maneuver: Assassin's Stance. Then, it works, and you don't have to give up Spring Attack for it either.

[Rubik]

However, a HD-advanced Greater Shadow can burn their Alertness feat for Shadow Jaunt or Drain Vitality, and their 12th HD feat on Martial Maneuver: Assassin's Stance. Then, it works, and you don't have to give up Spring Attack for it either.Since shadows have fly speeds you'll want to trade in Spring Attack for Flyby Attack. It's so much better it's not even funny, and you can use it with maneuvers, as well.

[Roguenewb]

This is my favorite thread, ever. Foehammer isn't bad for really DRed players. Emerald Razor can let you hit a player with a silly high AC. Fire Riposte makes a good surprise for a player, as does Island of Blades. White Raven Tactics is as cool as ever, and it can help the Action Diseconomy boss monsters have. A mindflayer with drow crusader slaves...Grapple, WRT, full grapple, WRT from the other, Extract. Good turn everyone.