Next round of the ambush

[dtilque]

So far in the ambush, we've had Haley attacking from the front, Durkon attacking from the side, and Belkar attacking from above. Keeping up the theme, the next round should have a different member attack from a different direction.

Roy seems to be sitting the fight out combat-wise, so it'll be either Elan or V. Since V is already on the next lower level, he's most likely to be the one to attack from below. An attack by V will not have been coordinated by Roy, so will be a random intrusion. It could be V next, but I think more likely Elan.

So where does Elan attack from? Behind seems to be the only direction left, but that means he'd be attacking Malack and Qarr. Not a good move on his part (he'd be seriously out of his league) and that would violate another theme of this ambush: effective attacks.

So that leaves the sixth direction: out of the 4th wall!

Yep, that's right. He's going to jump out of the audience and attack someone. Using the 4th wall like that is probably one of the special abilities that Dashing Swordsmen have and not available to other classes.

Not sure who, but probably Z. His pun attacks will not be effective, since Z is deafened (I assume the target of a pun attack has to be able to hear and appreciate the puns), but Z is a wizard, and without spells should be no match for a Bard. Or possibly he'll help Durkon by flanking Tarquin. That'd make for an interesting battle.

[Snails]

Elan could easily have 4th level Bard spells, which are none too shabby if used intelligently. A smartly played illusion could cause havoc. There are other spells he could use as well, but illusions are the one place Elan has shown some degree of skill with in the past.

The awesome play on Roy's part would to use his stupid animals to trigger traps that affect the LG. A little trickier with Durkon where he is, but still possible.

[Ted The Bug]

Something tells me that isn't likely.

[oppyu]

I don't know why Roy isn't involved; right now a possible flaw with his plan is that it leaves Durkon 1v1 against Tarquin. While the dwarf can hold his own in melee combat, it would be better with Roy and Durkon flanking the dangerous melee fighter that dominated them earlier.

Elan with illusions should be effective at this point however.

[Grail]

Roy hasn't involved himself as he needs to see what the results of the sprung steps already are. This way, he holds himself in reserve to inject himself when and if necessary. Making sure he goes for the target that the group need him to go for and waiting to see if there are any contingencies that he didn't account for or unexpected results.

[Hbgplayer]

I'll tell you why Roy isn't attacking right now: he's actually putting his MBA to practical use! Clearly, he's directing the chessboard.

[dtilque]

Elan could easily have 4th level Bard spells, which are none too shabby if used intelligently. A smartly played illusion could cause havoc. There are other spells he could use as well, but illusions are the one place Elan has shown some degree of skill with in the past.

Illusions won't be much use in this battle. Tarquin's ring of True Seeing will make him immune (although Elan doesn't know he has one) and my guess is that Z is blind as well as deaf. If he does attack a sighted being (i.e. Nale), then Mirror Image (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mirrorImage.htm) could be very effective.


The awesome play on Roy's part would to use his stupid animals to trigger traps that affect the LG. A little trickier with Durkon where he is, but still possible.

I really doubt we'll be seeing any new traps set off. Only two trap triggers were shown (foreshadowed) in previous strips and both of those have already been tripped.

The sawblade trap is near where Belkar and Nale are fighting, so it may be set off again if they move around in their engagement. Now that I think about it, it would be a good tactic for Belkar to intentionally set that one off. The blade comes in at a height appropriate for humans, but too high to harm halflings. It could catch Nale by surprise from behind.

[Unisus]

Actually the sawblade trap is probably jammed, as Nale told Sabine to do so - depends on Durkon's timing.

But of course it would be a nice addition to Belkar's collection of "humans thinking too tall" like the hanging scene at the bandit camp.

[Fish]

Elan has cast 5th-level bard spells (mass cure light wounds, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html)).

Given that, the spell "Seeming" could wreak some havoc. Disguise Zz'dtri as V, disguise Nale as Roy, disguise Durkon as one of the Linear Guild. Even if Tarquin isn't fooled, the others may attack each other. It's a shame we don't have any evidence that he has it. His other 5th level spell was Greater Dispel Magic.

[Marlowe]

I'll tell you why Roy isn't attacking right now: he's actually putting his MBA to practical use! Clearly, he's directing the chessboard.

Ah, there you are.

[Quakes]

Song of discord could be effective. Tarquin might fumble the will save, and would begin attacking Zz. I imagine it wouldn't effect the deaf people.

Or, he could use inspire heroics/greatness on Durkon for some benefits while fighting Tarquin, though he's not used his bardic performance skills very much in the past.

[Marlowe]

There are a great many things that a Bard could do to effect things. The one thing the class can't do well is inflict damage, which is something almost anyone else can do.

But it's Elan, which means he can only do what he remembers he can do.

[zimmerwald1915]

Song of discord could be effective. Tarquin might fumble the will save, and would begin attacking Zz. I imagine it wouldn't effect the deaf people.
A plan whose success depends on Tarquin screwing something up? Perish the thought! :smallsigh:

[Kish]

INCONCEIVABLe!

[Caractacus]

Song of discord could be effective. Tarquin might fumble the will save, and would begin attacking Zz. I imagine it wouldn't effect the deaf people.

Or, he could use inspire heroics/greatness on Durkon for some benefits while fighting Tarquin, though he's not used his bardic performance skills very much in the past.

Does song of Discord not require the targets to actually hear it? :smallconfused:

[Quakes]

Even if he's level 18, his will save is only +6. His wisdom certainly isn't low, so we'll give him another 2 maybe. Plus another bonus from items?

Elan's save DC would be 15+cha at min, so let's say 20. That gives Tarquin about a 50/50 chance of making the save. Not too bad of odds to at least give it a shot.

And yes, Tarquin wasn't deafened, so he'd hear it. Durkon would hear it too, but his Will save is much higher, and so likely he wouldn't be affected.

[Scrynor]

Here's my guess: Roy's fighting smart. He wouldn't have thrown his two strongest melee fighters (not counting himself) at Not-Thog and Nale with a very dangerous and squishy caster in Z remaining unmolested if he didn't have a further plan to disable Z, especially without his own arcane caster present. Furthermore, he's using what he knows about the LG to beat them this time and applying the known strengths of his team appropriately. My conclusion:

An Elan guided illusion of V shows himself and leads the V-obsessed Z away from the general combat without interacting with him (to avoid saving throws where possible). The deaf (but not blind if this is correct) Z falls for it and cannot hear Not-Thog shouting that it is just an illusion. *Elan may or may not be naked to increase his stealth during this process.

Now that he is confident he isn't needed to confront the caster Roy charges to flank the strong but isolated Not-Thog with Durkon.

...Not-Thog responds in an unexpected yet effective manner.

[Smolder]

I'd guess that Roy will be the last to step out of the shadows and make his move. That would make this fight a perfect mirror image of previous Order battles in which Roy usually charged forward into battle.

[Nxd6+!?]

I know I have a tendency to see chess in the most innapropriate places, but if Tarquin dies without having a brilliantly scripted chess scene vs. Roy, I will be most disappointed.

[Shred-Bot]

His pun attacks will not be effective, since Z is deafened (I assume the target of a pun attack has to be able to hear and appreciate the puns).

This is correct. The giant octopus in 478 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0478.html) could not hear his puns, and Elan actually had to dumb them down so the trolls could understand them in 506 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0506.html)... so until the deafness wears off no pun attacks for Z.

Though Holy Word's deafness only lasts 1d4 rounds... so perhaps the puns and bard songs will come in handy soon (possibly as soon as next strip).

[dtilque]

Actually the sawblade trap is probably jammed, as Nale told Sabine to do so - depends on Durkon's timing.

Very unlikely it's been jammed. Besides the timing, there's the Belkar problem.

The sawblade comes down from a trapdoor in the ceiling, In order to jam it, Sabine would have to open that trapdoor. Guess who's hiding behind the trapdoor in the ceiling? Right, our favorite homicidal halfling. She obviously didn't collect a couple dagger wounds in the face, so I'm guessing that she didn't open the trapdoor.

Here's a possible scenario involving that sawblade trap (I'm going to spoiler it for no real reason):

Belkar jumps around a lot during his usual battles. He jumps to the other side of Nale and happens to land on the trigger plate in the floor. Nale is stuck in place because of the dagger through his foot. The sawblade comes down and gives Nale an extra-deep haircut. Belkar says to himself "hey that was pretty neat" and does it again. And keeps on doing it. Why not, it probably gives more damage than his knives.

Sabine is now at the IFCC HQ watching the fight on their HD (Hell Damned) TV. She sees Nale in deep trouble and starts to panic. She needs to do something to help him. What can she do? She's banished for 24 hours, so she can't go there herself. Can she persuade someone else to go there? Send help some other way?


Tune in next week for the exciting conclusion to


Buzz Cut for Nale
-or-
S(h)aved by the Sex Fiend

[Umberhulk]

Roy will attack next, once the guild members have all found something to focus on. He'll lay into whomever is exposed. Then Elan will step in and assist whomever needs assistance. Haley continue to fire any visable enemy.

[Boogastreehouse]

Belkar jumps around a lot during his usual battles. He jumps to the other side of Nale and happens to land on the trigger plate in the floor. Nale is stuck in place because of the dagger through his foot. The sawblade comes down...

I believe you're onto something there, but I'll bet Belkar pinned Nale to the floor on purpose. Belkar has always been good at using random objects and battlefield features to his advantage in combat; a moonshine jug at Blind Pete's, dousing Miko with sake, releasing the dinosaur and, of course, using a certain terrified undead skull to great effect.

This sort of battlefield improvising might just be one of Belkar's strongest talents, and the closest that a creature like him could come to being creative.

[Fish]

Very unlikely it's been jammed. Besides the timing, there's the Belkar problem.

The sawblade comes down from a trapdoor in the ceiling, In order to jam it, Sabine would have to open that trapdoor. Guess who's hiding behind the trapdoor in the ceiling? Right, our favorite homicidal halfling. ...
Well-reasoned, but Sabine could also have jammed the floor-plate trigger mechanism without revealing Belkar.

[dtilque]

Well-reasoned, but Sabine could also have jammed the floor-plate trigger mechanism without revealing Belkar.

We see the floor-plate trigger in panel 7 of the current strip and it doesn't look any different than it was before Nale gave the order. You'd think if she'd jammed it, there would be some difference, say something stuck into its edge.

[Fish]

It's possible that Rich didn't wish to draw that; it's possible Sabine never had time to do it.

[Jay R]

... my guess is that Z is blind as well as deaf.

I doubt it. Gust of Wind is useful only if the presence of the smoke is keeping you from seeing.

[Emperordaniel]

I doubt it. Gust of Wind is useful only if the presence of the smoke is keeping you from seeing.

And the presence of the smoke is what's keeping Tarquin and Nale from seeing properly. Before he was deafened, Nale had been ordering Zz'dtri to find a way to clear the smoke if you recall. :smallwink:

[dtilque]

I doubt it. Gust of Wind is useful only if the presence of the smoke is keeping you from seeing.

At that point, he would not have known if the Holy Word had blinded him as well. In D&D, there is no differentiation between being blinded by smoke, fog or other environmental effects and being blinded by magic. OK, a smokestick will gradually clear absent a wind, but there hadn't been time for that when we last saw Z.

I'm not saying he was definitely blinded by Holy Word, but he could have been. We just don't have enough info right now.

There are 6 possible outcomes from a Holy Word spell. If Z was blinded, then the 5 LG members affected each got a different effect. The only effect not suffered was being outright killed (assuming Kil-Kil was just paralysed).

[dtilque]

It's possible that Rich didn't wish to draw [a jammed trigger plate]; it's possible Sabine never had time to do it.

If it's important to the plot, he'll draw it.

If he doesn't follow that rule, then people will, with considerable justification, be able to claim he's pulling a deus ex machina. He doesn't want that, so he's always careful to include important details like that as well as foreshadowing important events.

So either she didn't jam it or she did but no one's going to trip it, either intentionally or not.

[Fish]

I wouldn't take that as axiomatic. Nale told Sabine to jam the trap; she said yes. It may not be necessary for him to draw a whatsitz stuck in the trigger plate also; Rich told us that the plan was to disable the trap.

Do you see a lot of jammed traps on this page? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html) No, you don't. You see Haley saying "that's the last trap." Rich is telling us explicitly that the traps are disarmed, but he's not drawing little trap-blocking or trap-disarming devices on every step.

Did you see Nale carrying around a Wand of Enervation prior to this thread? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0806.html) No, because in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html) comic, Nale clearly says he's going shopping for magic items. It isn't necessary for Rich to draw every single item that Nale is carrying.

Did you see V carrying around healing potions prior to this strip? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0657.html) No.

I take that to mean that not everything that is important to the plot will be drawn explicitly or foreshadowed visually.

[oppyu]

Where would Sabine have found the time to disarm the trap? Nale tells her to jam the trap, and a few seconds later while he's still talking, Durkon comes out and blasts Nale's attempt to scramble to smithereens.

[Winter]

Illusions would be a good thing to cast for Elan. He should overlay Tarquin with an illusion of Roy.
Tarquin might be able to see through it, but Nale won't, he'll attack and tie up Tarquin in a one-on-one with Nale.

[dtilque]

I wouldn't take that as axiomatic. Nale told Sabine to jam the trap; she said yes. It may not be necessary for him to draw a whatsitz stuck in the trigger plate also; Rich told us that the plan was to disable the trap.

But the casual observer, or even the close reader would probably think she didn't have time to do it. After all, she was airborne when he gave the order and still airborne when the Holy Word was cast. There wasn't a whole lot of time between those events.


Do you see a lot of jammed traps on this page? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html) No, you don't. You see Haley saying "that's the last trap." Rich is telling us explicitly that the traps are disarmed, but he's not drawing little trap-blocking or trap-disarming devices on every step.

This example supports my point. Those jammed traps were not important, so they weren't shown.


Did you see Nale carrying around a Wand of Enervation prior to this thread? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0806.html) No, because in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html) comic, Nale clearly says he's going shopping for magic items. It isn't necessary for Rich to draw every single item that Nale is carrying.

And some people on this message board claimed he was pulling a deus ex machina there.


The point about this trap and the sliding door one is that the trigger-plates are always shown whenever they would be in the picture. That's not true of other traps in that same section of hallway. When we first see them in 855 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0855.html), Haley identifies four traps, but we see only those two trigger-plates. And it turns out they were important, since the LG tripped both of them.

They may be still important in that someone may try to trip one again. If so, then the status (i.e. jammed or not jammed) becomes important, so I would expect it to be visibly shown.

[theinsulabot]

Did you see V carrying around healing potions prior to this strip? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0657.html) No.




...dude, V didn't HAVE healing potions, that's why he clearly had to go loot them off the corpse of that dead guy to give to O-chul.

[kickassfrog]

I believe you're onto something there, but I'll bet Belkar pinned Nale to the floor on purpose. Belkar has always been good at using random objects and battlefield features to his advantage in combat; a moonshine jug at Blind Pete's, dousing Miko with sake, releasing the dinosaur and, of course, using a certain terrified undead skull to great effect.

This sort of battlefield improvising might just be one of Belkar's strongest talents, and the closest that a creature like him could come to being creative.

At the very least, it has to make it difficult for Nale to dodge Haley's arrows. Would it get rid of his DEX bonus to his AC?

Right now, I think the most important job for the Order is to get rid of Z, effectively eliminating the LG's casters (Nale doesn't count because of multiclassing)

[Jay R]

If it's important to the plot, he'll draw it.

Not quite. If it's important for the development of the plot for the reader to know it right now, he'll draw it. This is not the same thing.

The fact that Vaarsuvius's Familicide spell killed of the Draketooths and left one gate mostly undefended was important to the plot, but Rich didn't draw it - until it was the right time for that fact to be revealed.


So either she didn't jam it or she did but no one's going to trip it, either intentionally or not.

Or he plans to make a plot point out of the fact that nobody knows whether it's jammed, or he plans to make a surprise attack with it, or....

Story-telling often includes surprises that grew out of unresolved issues from earlier in the story.

[Fish]

Not everything that happens in the strip is drawn in advance (Elan's Potion of Glibness, for another example; the kobold village that triggered Belkar's curse for another). We also didn't see Elan sending Roy's great club to be cleaned, or Durkon preparing Wind Walk. Samantha the bandit queen is out of spells because she says she is, not because we saw her spell list. In this case, Rich may simply be informing the reader, "Don't expect that trap to go off again, because I'm telling you it's being disabled, but I don't have to draw it happening."

By your logic, if Rich had wanted us to see that Sabine didn't disarm the trap, he would have shown it.


...dude, V didn't HAVE healing potions, that's why he clearly had to go loot them off the corpse of that dead guy to give to O-chul.
What's the difference? We didn't see him carrying around healing potions either!

[theinsulabot]

*face palm*

Even though the comic shows the exact opposite of what I said it did, clearly I am still right!

[dtilque]

I was going to let the jammed/not jammed trap argument die. It had the potential to be one of the interminable and unresolvable arguments that this board is prone to. I didn't want to be responsible for one of them.

But I just realized why I originally argued for not jammed based on the premise that Sabine would have encountered Belkar while jamming the trap, and she obviously did not do that.

Take a look at panel 5 of the previous strip (859) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0859.html). In it, we see Sabine standing on the floor next to Nale. In the next panel, Nale gives her the order to jam the trap and she's taken off to do so. Why has she taken off when the trigger-plate is right in front of Nale on the floor?

It seems to me that she didn't even try to jam the trigger-plate and was going to jam the sawblade itself. And thus my initial argument. Also final one.

[Peelee]

*face palm*

Even though the comic shows the exact opposite of what I said it did, clearly I am still right!

Well, it's a valid point. Person X had healing potions on him without any foreshadowing of such. Whether Person X is V or Jirix is immaterial.