Primary and Secondary Attacks

[Private]

Hey all,

This may be a simple question, but I can't seem to find a concrete answer.

Are there any limitations on the order in which you take your attacks, specifically referring to Primary and Secondary Attacks. For example, if you had a character with, say, a tail attack, which is always considered Secondary, do you HAVE to take that attack after you make your Primary Attacks, say a Bite or Weapon Attack?

The names sort of imply that Secondary attacks would be made, well, second, but I don't actually see any rules involving full attack routines that addresses this issue.

Any thoughts?

[Curmudgeon]

The order requirement would be inherent in the names, I think. And if you mix in iterative attacks, you're required to take all attacks in order of decreasing AB.
If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. There aren't any exceptions for natural attacks.

[jaybird]

And if you mix in iterative attacks, you're required to take all attacks in order of decreasing AB. There aren't any exceptions for natural attacks.

Sure about that? That quote only addresses iterative attacks, not multiple natural attacks.

[Private]

The order requirement would be inherent in the names, I think. And if you mix in iterative attacks, you're required to take all attacks in order of decreasing AB. There aren't any exceptions for natural attacks.

By your interpretation, If a creature that had an iterative weapon attack, and then natural attacks, with the Multiattack feat, that creature would do them all in order of Attack Bonus?

For example:

Longsword: +10/+5
3 Tentacles: +8

So full attack action: Longsword +10, 3 tentacles +8, Longsword +5

My group has never played like that, but if you could cite it in the rules I would appreciate it.

Also, would you have to take the Manufactured Weapon attacks first? What if the Secondary Attacks all had a higher Attack Bonus than that Primary Weapon attack?

For Example:
A creature has Longsword, Primary Attack, and 3 tentacles, Secondary attacks. That creature has Weapon Focus Tentacles, Multiattack, and Magic Fang, Greater (say, CL 12, so +3), but attacking with a mundane longsword?

Longsword: +10/+5
3 Tentacles: +12

So would you do the Primary Attack first, even though the Secondary Attack actually has a higher bonus?

[Curmudgeon]

Sure about that? That quote only addresses iterative attacks, not multiple natural attacks.
The rule is conditional on having iterative attacks, but it says nothing about only applying to iterative attacks. It's a general rule for Full Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fullAttack) action, which also applies if you want to take secondary natural attacks.

By your interpretation, If a creature that had an iterative weapon attack, and then natural attacks, with the Multiattack feat, that creature would do them all in order of Attack Bonus?
Yes, that's what I'd do. I'd also have secondary attacks precede primary attack if that's what decreasing AB order dictates.

[Siosilvar]

So would you do the Primary Attack first, even though the Secondary Attack actually has a higher bonus?

"...you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first."

Being able to strike with either weapon you dual-wield first strongly implies that the prior sentence refers to your base attack (less iterative and/or secondary penalties), since it's trivial to get an off-hand to-hit higher than your main hand. So yes, I'd take the primary attack first.

[Anxe]

I'm not sure what the ruling is by RAW, but for Natural attacks I usually do the highest one and then the others in whatever order I choose. For something with iterative weapon attacks and naturals, I do all the weapon attacks from highest to lowest (If TWF, I do the primary weapon first and the secondary weapon second) and then I do the naturals.

So if its a creature with a bite attack wielding a longsword and shortsword:
+10 Longsword
+5 Longsword
+10 Shortsword
+5 Shortsword
+10 Bite

It may not be RAW, but its worked for me.

[Private]

First, I totally forgot to mention that I'm asking about Pathfinder, however I doubt there is much of a difference.

Secondly, My group has always played the same way, all of the weapon attacks first, then natural attacks. I just didn't know if the issue was actually addressed in the rules.

Due to a build I've been working on, it just benefits me to be able to take my natural attacks first, so I was looking for something concrete for when my DM will surely assert that one must make Weapon Attacks first, since that is how we have always played.

Anyone else have any other opinions?