Derailed Thread...

[LanSlyde]

So I've been looking through this for giggles.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0

It states that heightened fear levels last as long as the fear effect with the greatest duration. Awesome.

Now I understand the concept of fear stacking, but I can't seem to find where it says in the rules that fear effects that are elevated last until all fear effects are dissipated. I mean, lets say we have an enemy that is shaken for 4 rounds, and then he gets hit with something else that causes fear for 1 round. I get that he is now frightened but I can't seem to find where it says he is frightened for the entire duration of all the fear effects. Instead of being frightened for 1 round and then back to shaken for the last 3. If someone could point me in the right direction I would be grateful.

[Kane0]

We just houserule that kind of thing.

Bard casts cause fear (successfully saves), I follow up with warlock fear blast (fails save). End result is frightened for one round then shaken for 9 rounds after that.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Rules Compendium, page 53, Escalating Fear:
Multiple exposures to the same effect don’t trigger this
escalation of fear. Exposure to different effects does. When
such multiple exposures occur, the worst stage of fear lasts
until the duration of all the effects causing the fear expire.

So the Desert Half-Orc, Half-Orc Paragon 1/ Zhentarim Fighter 9, with Cha 16 charges in, triggering his Dreadful Wrath feat (DC 22 with Ability Focus and Unnatural Aura), which makes opponents Shaken for 10 rounds. He then uses a swift action to demoralize them (+31 without magic bonuses) with Never Outnumbered, escalating it to Frightened for the remainder of the duration. Meanwhile, the Wizard casts Web with Invisible Spell, using Snowcasting (with Summon Component (CM) if necessary) to add Flash Frost Spell (PH2) so it will add no-save damage to trigger Fell Frighten. Opponents are escalated to Panicked for the new remaining duration of one minute from their most recent instance of damage from the Web, and they're trapped in the web and forced to cower. The party then proceeds to beat them all senseless.

[LanSlyde]

Thank you people.

Also, out of curiosity, would you happen to know how to detect an AMF without randomly casting to find out?

[Greyfeld85]

Thank you people.

Also, out of curiosity, would you happen to know how to detect an AMF without randomly casting to find out?

permenencied Detect Magic?

large cone hat permenencied with Shrink Item?

[Fenryr]

I assume everyone has magic items of +X to stats. If you walk into AMF you feel weaker?

[LanSlyde]

permenencied Detect Magic?

large cone hat permenencied with Shrink Item?

I suppose I should go ahead explain the situation. We are nearing the end of a rather long campaign and the armies of evil are marching up to our doorstep. I've decided to to start dropping Erupt spells.

http://dndtools.eu/spells/serpent-kingdoms--24/erupt--3253/

These spells will be enhanced with Energy substitution (+0), Born of the 3 Thunders (+0), and Explosive(+1) metamagic. Basically making a working Locate City Bomb. But this ones actually legal via RAW. Anyway, I've got the immunity to shock and sonic down, I just need to know if the area I'm going to drop this on is covered in an AMF. I'd rather not waste them.

[Kelb_Panthera]

AMF's are relatively rare. The spell emenates from the caster, who can't be less than 11th level, out to 10ft. Anywhere else and you're dealing with either a dead-magic zone, which will be just as big a surprise for the enemy, or your DM is pulling stuff out of his ***.

If you absolutely must be able to detect a dead-magic zone, just cast continual flame on a torch. Torch goes out, you've either entered a dead-magic zone or you're about to be ambushed.

[LanSlyde]

AMF's are relatively rare. The spell emenates from the caster, who can't be less than 11th level, out to 10ft. Anywhere else and you're dealing with either a dead-magic zone, which will be just as big a surprise for the enemy, or your DM is pulling stuff out of his ***.

If you absolutely must be able to detect a dead-magic zone, just cast continual flame on a torch. Torch goes out, you've either entered a dead-magic zone or you're about to be ambushed.

Considering that the city where the bad guys keep all their slaves is covered in one massive permanent AMF and our own home base has an AMF surround the Citadel of the Holy Order (which is customized to only prevent magic from non order-members)? While normally I would ignore it and just dive bomb the armies I rather not attempt this only to have my magic fizzle out and get swarmed by mooks. What about trying to use clairvoyance on the area I plan on impacting? I mean, if it blocks all magic I shouldn't be able to view the area via magic. Right?

[The Random NPC]

Depends on the divination in question, most create an invisible sensor that you view from, bypassing the AMF.

[LanSlyde]

Depends on the divination in question, most create an invisible sensor that you view from, bypassing the AMF.

Alright... would a simple clairvoyance spell work or should I just start using summon monster 1 to just randomly drop badgers into the thick of things to see if they wink out?

[The Random NPC]

Clairvoyance creates said invisible magical sensor. So it would depend on how far from the AMF the sensor was. Your best bet would be to find some kind of low level area of effect spell with visible effects to test for AMFs. And summons must be summoned on something that can support them.
EDIT: Suitable low level spells that can help would be Prestidigitation, Dancing Lights and Obscuring Mists.
EDIT2: It seems (Extended for 20 rounds) Dancing Lights or Prestidigitated items would be the best, although the Dancing Lights would only be able to travel 100+10/level feet from you.

[The Redwolf]

Also as the effects of an instantaneous summon they'd stick around in an AMF. I learned that from a huge argument in another thread.

[The Random NPC]

Also as the effects of an instantaneous summon they'd stick around in an AMF. I learned that from a huge argument in another thread.

Any creation of an instantaneous spell lasts (unless it doesn't). Which becomes ridiculous when you think about the orb spells. You can pick them back up and throw them back to the mage that cast them.

[The Redwolf]

Any creation of an instantaneous spell lasts (unless it doesn't). Which becomes ridiculous when you think about the orb spells. You can pick them back up and throw them back to the mage that cast them.

Another thing mentioned in that topic.

[Psyren]

As I mentioned in that "other thread" - technically, all the Orbs are orbs of acid that somehow deal {element} damage. A glob of protoplasm, if you will. So "picking them back up" would probably involve a sponge, and getting them back into orb shape probably wouldn't be possible without more magic.

[KillianHawkeye]

This is a strategy that somebody in my gaming group came up with to locate antimagic fields using a cantrip: cast prestidigitation and use its ability to change the color of something to change everybody's arrows bright orange. Now you can shoot the arrow to basically any nearby location and know if the area is covered by antimagic by just watching to see if the arrow changes back to its normal color or not.

[The Random NPC]

As I mentioned in that "other thread" - technically, all the Orbs are orbs of acid that somehow deal {element} damage. A glob of protoplasm, if you will. So "picking them back up" would probably involve a sponge, and getting them back into orb shape probably wouldn't be possible without more magic.

I was not aware of that, but I still find it funny that there exists liquid so loud, it hurts.

[DementedFellow]

Another thing mentioned in that topic.

Would it be possible for you to link this other thread?

[nedz]

To detect AMFs
Dancing Lights, Light spell on the end of a 10' pole, Continual Flame on the end of a 10' pole, Mage Hand with a pebble, and many more.

[The Redwolf]

Would it be possible for you to link this other thread?

It's the thread called Casting Into Antimagic Fields, it's on the first page. I can if you'd like but it's easy to find as the debate is ongoing, even though it shouldn't be because Psyren, UrPriest, and the associated Playgrounders are right, as should be plain to almost everyone.


Side Note: Psyren, how exactly would you get the orbs to hold their shape/put them back into that shape?

[Psyren]

Side Note: Psyren, how exactly would you get the orbs to hold their shape/put them back into that shape?

I have no idea, nor would I want to do that. Orbs shouldn't be reusable, especially not by non-casters.

[The Random NPC]

It's the thread called Casting Into Antimagic Fields, it's on the first page. I can if you'd like but it's easy to find as the debate is ongoing, even though it shouldn't be because Psyren, UrPriest, and the associated Playgrounders are right, as should be plain to almost everyone.


Side Note: Psyren, how exactly would you get the orbs to hold their shape/put them back into that shape?

Perhaps with the Sculpt Spell feat?

[The Redwolf]

I have no idea, nor would I want to do that. Orbs shouldn't be reusable, especially not by non-casters.

But it would be so much fun to have the entire party carrying around a sack full of various orbs. Just have the wizard or sorcerer spend a day lobbing them at a tree and then someone picks them up and bags them and everyone carries some for just in case. I think that would be awesome.

[LanSlyde]

But it would be so much fun to have the entire party carrying around a sack full of various orbs. Just have the wizard or sorcerer spend a day lobbing them at a tree and then someone picks them up and bags them and everyone carries some for just in case. I think that would be awesome.

Indeed, but I think orbs act like very angry water balloons. They retain their shape until they hit something, then they splatter all over it.

[ahenobarbi]

I have no idea, nor would I want to do that. Orbs shouldn't be reusable, especially not by non-casters.

U B non-caster buster?

[nedz]

Surely the Wizard/Sorcerer could just cast the spell, and not launch them ?

Actually, reading the spell, you have to fire the orb; you just need some way to catch them.

Since they are not magical, or they wouldn't pierce an AMF, the party Monk with snatch arrows can catch them, and throw them back later.

So, by RAW, orbs can be stock-piled, except that their duration is Instantaneous. Extend and Persistent Spell won't work here. Unless you have a solution to the Instantaneous problem, there is no exploit here.

[The Random NPC]

Surely the Wizard/Sorcerer could just cast the spell, and not launch them ?

Actually, reading the spell, you have to fire the orb; you just need some way to catch them.

Since they are not magical, or they wouldn't pierce an AMF, the party Monk with snatch arrows can catch them, and throw them back later.

So, by RAW, orbs can be stock-piled, except that their duration is Instantaneous. Extend and Persistent Spell won't work here. Unless you have a solution to the Instantaneous problem, there is no exploit here.

Instantaneous Conjurations create nonmagical amounts of stuff, so in this case, it creates nonmagical balls of sound/acid/cold/fire/I don't remember what else. Because it isn't magical it sticks around. You can also do the same with Acid Splash.

[nedz]

Instantaneous Conjurations create nonmagical amounts of stuff, so in this case, it creates nonmagical balls of sound/acid/cold/fire/I don't remember what else. Because it isn't magical it sticks around. You can also do the same with Acid Splash.

OK, and since its all modified acid, all you have to do is collect it in bottles.
Force grenades anyone ?
A bottle of force would make for an interesting drinking challenge mind.
Which of course opens up the idea of cocktails, that's one in the eye for Molotov.:smallbiggrin:
I throw my bottle of Force/Fire/Cold/Sonic/Electrical/Acid at the Dragon.

[Mnemnosyne]

Orb of force actually doesn't work that way from what I can tell. I see what Psyren means, since most of the orb spells say "this spell functions like orb of acid except..." but orb of force doesn't say that. It simply says "You create a globe of force 3 inches across..."

[The Random NPC]

Orb of force actually doesn't work that way from what I can tell. I see what Psyren means, since most of the orb spells say "this spell functions like orb of acid except..." but orb of force doesn't say that. It simply says "You create a globe of force 3 inches across..."

The orb spells are instantaneous Conjuration(creation) spells, meaning that although the object is created through magic, it lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence. That leads to 3 inch balls (possibly protoplasm) of nonmagical force/fire/ect.

[nedz]

OK, so no Force.

Presumably though, if you had a big enough bottle you could fill it with several Orbs of the same type ?

"I throw my Melchizedek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_bottle) of Ice at the Red Dragon, do I get sneak on this ?"

[The Random NPC]

OK, so no Force.

Presumably though, if you had a big enough bottle you could fill it with several Orbs of the same type ?

"I throw my Melchizedek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_bottle) of Ice at the Red Dragon, do I get sneak on this ?"

I think you misunderstand, you can use Force. And Fire, and cold, and sonic. They are nonmagical blobs of energy.

[The Redwolf]

I think you misunderstand, you can use Force. And Fire, and cold, and sonic. They are nonmagical blobs of energy.

What the person at the bottom of the last page was saying is that orb of force is slightly different from the others. The others specify, "As orb of acid but with..." which leads to the interpretation that they're like the orb of acid. Orb of force specifies an orb of force rather than using the "as orb of acid" qualifier, so it seems that it is formed differently from the others.

[The Random NPC]

What the person at the bottom of the last page was saying is that orb of force is slightly different from the others. The others specify, "As orb of acid but with..." which leads to the interpretation that they're like the orb of acid. Orb of force specifies an orb of force rather than using the "as orb of acid" qualifier, so it seems that it is formed differently from the others.

Do you mean that because it isn't like acid, you wouldn't be able to put it in a bottle? If so, just use them as sling bullets. If not, then it doesn't matter, because it is still an instantaneous Conjuration (creation) spell.

[The Redwolf]

Do you mean that because it isn't like acid, you wouldn't be able to put it in a bottle? If so, just use them as sling bullets. If not, then it doesn't matter, because it is still an instantaneous Conjuration (creation) spell.

I think it's more like you said there using it for bullets sort of thing. I'm thinking of it from the description as rather than being a glob of force like the other things are globs it's like a globe of force, like if you made a glass sphere that was hollow inside, except instead of glass it's force. That's how the orb of force is sounding to me.

[Hyde]

It doesn't specify the consistency or construction of any of the orbs.

The reason why "Orb of Force" doesn't have the "like acid" line is because it has a different range and damage cap (also no save, and no secondary effect...), so unlike the other spells, it would take far more "this does Y instead of X" lines than to just rewrite the entry, which is why it's presented that way.

I fail to see why this has been such a mystery.