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View Full Version : Turn resolution mechanics - Simultaneous turns



jseah
2012-08-14, 03:34 PM
I played D&D and made a character for a FATE game (which never started) and looked at GURPS before (although not closely and mainly only the spells).

Additionally, I have made many TPRGs on a computer, including FFT, FFTA, and a few others I can't recall off the top of my head.


While imaginative mechanics involving turns are plenty; FFT has spellcasting delay, a Touhou TRPG had projectiles that moved over a period of turns as the main attack method, and many initiative breaking mechanics (like readied actions and reactions); I almost never see a different resolution method to turn by turn.

The only truly non-turn based TRPG-like thing is Frozen Synapse. It runs off a simultaneous resolution system, where you make your moves for ALL your guys at the same time and the bad guys also make their moves. Then the moves resolve and you play the next turn.
The turn mechanics are darned complicated but that's a factor of the game design not the idea.


So, anyone seen a simultaneous turn resolution system instead of initiative orders? How did it turn out?

Any ideas on how to build one?

Gnoman
2012-08-14, 04:44 PM
Armarillo Design Bureau's Star Fleet Battles and Steve Jackson's Car Wars both used the "Impulse" system, where everyone plotted their movement speed and used a chart to see who moved when. They work great (if somewhat slow) for wargaming, so I see no reason why you can't adapt the system to an RPG.

RandomLunatic
2012-08-14, 05:51 PM
Crimson SKies (the board game) has all players secretly write down what moves they want to make. When everybody is done, the moves are revealed, and the planes are all moved simultaneously.

Come to think of it, a really old game I have on my shelf called Star Force does this too, for both strategic and tactical maneuvering.

Knaight
2012-08-14, 06:22 PM
FATE has a simultaneous turn option, inherited from Fudge. I vastly prefer it to the alternating turn system, but I think that's a minority position. The ORE systems also all use simultaneous turns, though the actions aren't simultaneous.

Glimbur
2012-08-14, 06:25 PM
Street Fighter (oWoD) has a speed-based turn system. Each person selects a maneuver each turn (which is written on a card). Then you count up from 0 speed until everyone is done. Slower moves are on lower numbers; when your number comes up you have to declare your move. The advantage of a faster maneuver is that you can interrupt the slower maneuver either before it occurs or between the attack and the move. Simultaneous speed is resolved with, I think, comparison between the Wits stat with the smarter character being faster. It works pretty well.

jseah
2012-08-14, 06:50 PM
I meant more like a simultaneous resolution of actions rather than an initiative order, even if actions have to be declared simultaneously.

So, Crimson Skies, how were various conflicting actions resolved? Like if two planes decided to move into the same area or... are conditionals even allowed?

Knaight
2012-08-14, 06:58 PM
I meant more like a simultaneous resolution of actions rather than an initiative order, even if actions have to be declared simultaneously.
Looking at ORE, it's nothing like an initiative order. Everyone rolls their actions, forms sets of dice, the sets each go at a certain point (larger sets first, larger numbers on the sets break ties), and then they go off, interacting with each other the entire way through. It actually feels pretty realistic.

RandomLunatic
2012-08-14, 07:51 PM
I meant more like a simultaneous resolution of actions rather than an initiative order, even if actions have to be declared simultaneously.

So, Crimson Skies, how were various conflicting actions resolved? Like if two planes decided to move into the same area or... are conditionals even allowed?

To be honest, I am not sure a simultaneous resolution is practically possible for a table top game. About the best you can hope for is something like BattleTech or the aforementioned Star Fleet Battles, wherein all results of attacking are delayed until the end of the phase in which it happened. So if while playing BT, your Awesome blows away a Stinger, the latter still gets a chance to shoot back before it unceremoniously removed from the board.

To answer your question, Crimson Skies allows multiple aircraft to occupy the same hex, but they may collide with each other.

Knaight
2012-08-14, 07:55 PM
To be honest, I am not sure a simultaneous resolution is practically possible for a table top game. About the best you can hope for is something like BattleTech or the aforementioned Star Fleet Battles, wherein all results of attacking are delayed until the end of the phase in which it happened. So if while playing BT, your Awesome blows away a Stinger, the latter still gets a chance to shoot back before it unceremoniously removed from the board.


Fudge has one. To use a melee example, both people apply stances, roll, and then you see who hits who how hard. If neutral or defensive stances are used, it will either be a tie where nobody gets hit or one person hitting, if offensive stances are used you can get a double hit. It works quite nicely, as it emerges from contested rolls which are naturally simultaneous.

Aux-Ash
2012-08-15, 11:02 AM
The swedish rpg Eon has a somewhat simultaneous turn resolution.

It's divided into 4 phases.

First all ranged mundane combat is resolved. Friendly and hostile and it all occurs at roughly the same time.

In the second phase melee combat takes place. Here the complexity kicks in. Combat initiative is determined by a roll against "Win initiative". The opening turn of combat all combatants roll this. Those who succed on their roll become attackers and those that do not become defenders. Attackers have the initiative and thus get to choose freely what to do. Defenders may only take defensive manouvers and counterattacks. They can only act in response to the attackers actions. In the beginning of each subsequent turn the defenders will roll a "win initiative" roll and if they succeed they manage to take it from the attackers.

Attackers then set up the actions they wish to take, defenders those they wish to take and for each attacker/defender grouping the actions is resolved one after another.
For example, if the attacker decides to go attack, parry, attack and attack and the defender chooses to dodge three times. Then first is the first attack and dodge resolved, then the second (the attackers third action and the defender's second) and lastly the third. The attackers parry is void since the defender never performed a counterattack. The exact order in which actions are set up is important for difficulty reasons (basically, each subsequent action after the first raises the difficulty one step. So in this case our attacker chose to set parry second in order to ensure it was an easier roll).

After all melee combat has been resolved the turn goes into the third phases which is spells. All spells are then cast. Friendly and hostile. Simultaneously.

Finally the turn ends with the rolls for death (difficulty determined by the trauma and bloodloss recieved) and unconciousness (difficulty determined by trauma, bloodloss, pain and exhaustion). This also means that no opponent can be dropped before they take their actions that turn... unless you decapitate them.

It's a very complex system and very slow unless you got someone that has gotten some experience with it, but very entertaining in my opinion.

jseah
2012-08-15, 06:26 PM
I have been thinking about making one though, and here are some thoughts on a generic turn resolution system:
All actors declare their next turn's action at the same time.
Each turn is divided into some number of ticks (say 20 for example).

Key Terms:
Delay
Commitment
Action
Recovery

Every action goes through a few phases; Delay -> Action -> Duration/Recovery

Delay is the number of ticks where nothing happens (ie. "charge time").
Action is the number of ticks for whatever it is to happen, this starts at the end of Delay.
Recovery is the number of ticks it takes for the character to recover, this starts at the end of Action.

So primarily, characters declare their intentions and the stuff happens as scheduled.
If their intended action would take less than a full turn (ie. Delay + Action + Recovery < 1 turn), then they get to fill in another one, which must also be decided at the start of turn. If they have some other action

Commitment is the number of ticks the character can still abort and do nothing (or whatever default defensive action) that turn, after that number, the character must follow through to whatever result.
- Some actions have Commitment numbers at 20, which means it is cancelable at any time, including in the middle of Action phases, but crucially, not in the middle of Recovery phases.
Aborting an action is immediate and can be done at any time between determining results of actions.

If the Delay, Action and Recovery took longer than the number of ticks in a turn, the action just continues into the next turn unless aborted before then. The character has to decide whether to abort the current action at the end of the previous turn (if possible) so everyone can react to the abort. If aborted, the character's turn is empty and he fills it as normal; if not aborted, the turn has whatever remains of the previous action and the character fills any remaining empty space. The character CAN still abort the action at the start of the next turn, but loses whatever ticks the action would have taken up.

Commitment taking longer than a turn becomes a multi-turn action and should be special case handled. Just almagate however many turns it takes to resolve it and have a continuous row of ticks.


Optionally, some effects might be better modeled with multiple Action phases denoting certain effects. (or even multiple Delay and Action phases in some order)

While I formalized alot of things, the system should be possible to just run it fast and loose if you draw a sidebar listing delays and such. Can draw little lines denoting Delay/Action/Recovery and the Next Turn Line.

3.5 might be possible to turn into this. Initiative could be simply an inverted order of delay (highest init gets 0 delay, everyone else has some starting Delay based on how far they are away from him). Surprise rounds then become a flat bonus to initiative.
Some special handling for immediate actions would be needed. And spell interruption in the middle of Actions needs to be handled (perhaps only interrupt during the Delay portion of a spell? The Action portion could represent the flight time of a fireball say)

Would complexify an already complex game though.

kyoryu
2012-08-15, 06:50 PM
Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're suggesting, all of the Burning Wheel games use simultaneous turns as the core of their "complex" systems.