[PF] Mount optimization

[badhorse]

Making a mounted ranger for pathfinder. I'm wondering how to best utilize my horse in combat - should I take improved/greater bull rush or overrun and use it to bowl over enemies and smack them with my lance when they provoke AoOs? Should I focus on improved natural attack and similar feats to boost its damage output? Is there another way I can make my mount kick ass?

So far I'm leaning towards bull rushing or overrunning opponents with the mount and either taking advantage of their new prone condition/disadvantageous placement, or forcing them to provoke AoOs from my ranger and getting free attacks in.

[grarrrg]

Making a mounted ranger for pathfinder. I'm wondering how to best utilize my horse in combat - should I take improved/greater bull rush or overrun and use it to bowl over enemies and smack them with my lance when they provoke AoOs? Should I focus on improved natural attack and similar feats to boost its damage output? Is there another way I can make my mount kick ass?

So far I'm leaning towards bull rushing or overrunning opponents with the mount and either taking advantage of their new prone condition/disadvantageous placement, or forcing them to provoke AoOs from my ranger and getting free attacks in.

I'm not much for Mount Optimization, but the ARG gave 2 decent options you might want to look at.

Fell Rider (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-hobgoblin/fell-rider-cavalier-hobgoblin) Cavalier (Hobgoblin only)

Order of the Paw (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/orders/paizo---cavalier-orders/order-of-the-paw-halfling) Cavalier (Halfling only)

[Andvare]

For a ranger, I would forego a horse as a mount and take a roc instead.
I know it is not on the list, but the entry for a roc explicitly states that it can be used by a ranger.
Just get boon companion, and it can be used as a flying mount at level 7.

[Serafina]

Or take Sable Company Marine (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/sable-company-marine), which gives you a Hippogriff at the cost of your first favored terrain. Large, Fly-speed of 100 feet with average maneuverability, 1 Bite and 2 Claws. It can also fly and carry you straight away, instead of having to wait for a few more levels.

It's also 100% RAW and RAI, and less likely to be banned regardless since it's a Archetype instead of just a strange pick from a list somewhere.

Compared to the Dire Bat, the Hippogriff has a higher fly speed, better Dexterity, slightly lower Strength and natural armor, two extra claw attacks and scent.
Compared to the Giant Mantis, the Hippogriff has higher fly speed, better Dexterity, lower Strength and natural armor, an extra bite and scent.
Compared to the Pteranodon and Quetzalcoatlus, the Hippogriff has higher fly speed, worse Dexterity, better Strength and two extra claw attacks but a worse bite.
Compared to the Roc, the Hippogriff has slightly higher fly speed, lower Strength and much worse natural armor, better Dexterity and scent.
The Hippogriff also has a better land speed than all of those, which can be quite relevant indoors.

I'd say that, if you want a good flyer to carry you around, the Hippogriff is ideal. If you want your animal companion to attack for you others are probably better.

[Andvare]

And it can be used early.
The entry doesn't say when, quite an oversight IMHO as that would actually mean it can be used from level 1, but a more reasonable level would probably be at level 4.
And it does have a higher fly speed, but only after its 4th level upgrade (but, again, it can be used as a flying mount straight of the bat).
It certainly isn't as good a fighter as a roc, but it isn't, as you say, as prone to being banned (I'm still having a hard time seeing why a ranger, who doesn't need to be nerfed, can't get the better druid list of animal companions, sorcerers do...). A roc gets grab on its attack. Grab-fly-drop is rather effective.

I dunno why I keep forgetting this archetype. I like this archetype, it is not only useful, it has nice fluffy parts.

[badhorse]

This is great advice, and I'll certainly use it for the future, but I have been limited to non-flying mounts.

In other news, I am DEFINITELY taking boon companion. Holy crap what a good feat.

[grarrrg]

This is great advice, and I'll certainly use it for the future, but I have been limited to non-flying mounts.

In other news, I am DEFINITELY taking boon companion. Holy crap what a good feat.

You did notice the part about being Capped at your Character level right?
It is a good feat, but you (usually) have to Multi-class for it to do anything.

[Andvare]

This is great advice, and I'll certainly use it for the future, but I have been limited to non-flying mounts.

In other news, I am DEFINITELY taking boon companion. Holy crap what a good feat.

Okay, want some cheese?


If a character receives an animal companion from more than one source, her effective druid levels stack for the purposes of determining the statistics and abilities of the companion.

Now, you can use this to get on the far better druid list, if your GM hasn't already seen the light.

You can also use it together with the cavalier class, which might be better suited for mounted combat.

Or you can use it to cheese you companion. Now this last part requires two feats, and you being a druid (with the possibility of multi-classing into a cavalier). You can, theoretically, be a druid/ranger, but it isn't nearly as cheesy.
The first feat is Skill Focus: Knowledge Nature, a pre-req for the cheese, the milk of the build if you will.
Now get the Eldritch Heritage feat, use the Sylvan (fey) bloodline, which gives you:


Animal Companion (Ex): At 1st level, you gain an animal companion. Your effective druid level for this ability is equal to your sorcerer level – 3 (minimum 1st).

Now, your effective sorcerer level is character level -2, so your effective druid level is character -5 (minimum 1), so this build doesn't really do anything much until after level 6, where each time you level, your companion "levels" twice. So, at level 13, your companion will have the abilities granted by a level 13+(13-5) = 21! Epic, literally.
At level 12 it has 15 HDs, a BAB of 11, good saves, 15 skill points, 8 feats, a bonus of 6 to strength and dex + 3 further ability points, and a couple of other treats.
Okay, that will probably not be accepted, it shouldn't. It is, AFAIK, RAW though.

On a more serious note, I'd really try to stay away from the horse, it really is sub-par.
Some good rides:

Ankylosaurus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions#TOC-Ankylosaurus)
It has a mean stun attack. And it looks quite good.
High natural armour (9, increases to 11), but a bit on the low side in other stats. Getting it large (at level 7) helps a lot. Still, an AC of 21, without barding or buffs, is quite good.

Elephant (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions#TOC-Elephant-Mastodon)
Trample! And decent stats (22 str, 7 natural armour).

Lion, or tiger... Liger! (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions#cat-big-lion-tiger)
Pounce and grab. Plus good stats, only drawback is its sucky natural armour.

Allosaurus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions#TOC-Allosaurus)
The Dino version of the Liger. Better stats at the cost of rake, a trade I would easily make. Both can get rend via feats.


Baluchitherium (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions#TOC-Baluchitherium)
Pretty much the same as the elephant. but I prefer its looks, as well as the thought of riding a pre-historical rhinoceros. Slightly better HP, slightly worse damage.

Axe Beak (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions#TOC-Axe-Beak)
The fastest of the bunch, and the only one as fast as a horse, and also the only one you can ride as a medium creature at level 4 instead of level 7.
Not as good as the others, but does trip as part of their charge (if it connects with the enemy of course), and that is very nice, keeps your enemy from retaliating with more than a standard action.
Sucky natural armour though, and low strength at level 1.

Arsinoitherium (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions#TOC-Arsinoitherium)
The best charger of the bunch, with both powerful charge and trample. Decent stats, except they are bloody slow. 30ft, a barbarian can run these down.
But it is the only one that can get Impaling Charge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/impaling-charge-monster).


If you are going for a horse, I would go the overrun route, so that you can charge again and again without penalty.
Depending on your choice of creature, this might change. Not every creature has 12 strength at level 1 (all does at level 7 though).

But, for Gnu's sake, do put your first ability increase in Int, and take one point in linguistic for your creature, choose a language you can, and, presto, your companion can now understand you.

Also be sure to agree with your DM if an animal is "suitable for a mount". A quick glance says that the Axe Beak is, but the bestiary doesn't say anything about for example the elephant, which is suitable for a mount IRL nor the big cat, which isn't suitable IRL (but has long been a stable for fantasy settings as an exotic mount).

[Andvare]

You did notice the part about being Capped at your Character level right?
It is a good feat, but you (usually) have to Multi-class for it to do anything.

With him being a ranger, it is quite good.

[grarrrg]

With him being a ranger, it is quite good.

BAH! with all this "mount" nonsense I somehow convinced myself the first post said "Cavalier"...

Please disregard.
Me no am smartish today.

[Blyte]

my advice is go small and use a medium mount.

you won't be able to charge in many situations (in dungeon settings) on a large mount.

having a medium mount with the feat "wheeling charge" will make your character very dungeon friendly; able to charge around players and corners in a hallway.

[Serafina]

While a Cavalier can't usually take any flying mounts, RAW you should be able to grab an animal companion from another source and let your Cavalier-levels stack with that for determining the Strength of your animal companion.
RAW the benefit of a Cavaliers mount always having light armor training doesn't apply (because that is an effect of the "Mount" ability, rather than a sub-effect of that ability that gives you an "druid-level like animal companion progression), but it should be possible to convince the GM to allow that (or simply take no ACP-armor via Mithral, Masterwork and Comfort-enchantment).

A Paladin also applies nice benefits - such as flight and celestial template wih some archeyping - to his mount, but that requires taking quite a lot of levels.

[grarrrg]

While a Cavalier can't usually take any flying mounts, RAW you should be able to grab an animal companion from another source and let your Cavalier-levels stack with that for determining the Strength of your animal companion.

Just throwing out some RAW issues here quickly;

Most Cavaliers are stuck with the standard Horse/Dog/Camel
The Beast Rider (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/archetypes/paizo---cavalier-archetypes/beast-rider) archetype opens it up to _most_ 'ride-able' animal companions. EXCEPT if you read through the archetype you'll find this "A beast rider cannot choose a mount that is not capable of bearing his weight, that has fewer than four legs, or that has a fly speed".


Also, Animal Companion =/= Mount. They are two different class features that just happen to reference the same advancement table. That said _most_ Animal Companions will stack with each other, and _most_ Mounts will stack with each other.


And as usual, either/both of the above can be overridden with DM approval.