She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

[Kellus]

Kellus, why is there no ability to make "computer" viruses?

I protest!

Well, you can already hack into a circuit and insert trigger/response pairs, or change the ones already in it. I imagine you could design a machine to automate the process, too...


Also, I might need to make an Understanding that allows Biollurgy to design diseases...

Wayyyyy ahead of you. There's a 2nd level graft called a Disease Incubator, and it even lets you change the vector.


Alright, so Biollurgical material retains its old properties... if you were to combine, say, Iron BM and Silver BM, would each bit keep its old properties? Or would the entire thing be converted into one or the other?

When you combine biostructure, the entire mass gets the worst of all the individual properties. But it keeps the combined weight and volume, which means that you can indeed blend densities together. But your silver/iron alloy ends up with hardness 5 and 10 hit points per inch of thickness, even though there's iron in it.

Now, the question of whether it 'counts' as various metals for things like a transformer or an engine is an interesting one. I have to be forced to conclude that because you add the volumes together without changing the combined weight, the metals both still exist in the alloy. So, for example, if you combine 0.5 cubic feet of iron with 0.5 cubic feet of silver, you end up with 1 cubic foot of biostructure that still counts as both 0.5 cubic feet of both silver and iron for gramaric principles even though it has the vital statistics of pure silver.

Clear as mud?

[Amechra]

So, would I be able to turn that hypothetical Silver-Iron BM into an Ascending engine after the fact, or would there not be enough material left?

(My eventual goal is to have a Biollurgical Chassis that produces BM that counts as all the Planetary metals. Simultaneously.)

[Qwertystop]

So, would I be able to turn that hypothetical Silver-Iron BM into an Ascending engine after the fact, or would there not be enough material left?

(My eventual goal is to have a Biollurgical Chassis that produces BM that counts as all the Planetary metals. Simultaneously.)

I think you'd need to have more.

[Kellus]

So, would I be able to turn that hypothetical Silver-Iron BM into an Ascending engine after the fact, or would there not be enough material left?

(My eventual goal is to have a Biollurgical Chassis that produces BM that counts as all the Planetary metals. Simultaneously.)

Not even close. An Ascending engine requires 8 cubic feet of silver, and this biostructure only counts as 0.5 cubic feet of it.

But if you're looking for an easy way to fly around in a suit, may I suggest a controlled polarcane flux centered around you with a gravity trait? You can flip the gravity in the bubble whatever direction you want, and you freefall. You could also automate something like that with some heuristic programming to essentially make you weightless, by stuttering the reverse gravity effect on and off.

EDIT: By the way, for anyone that's handling metals, I added a density column to the alchemetry chart in Mysterious Metallurgy that measures the planetary metals by lb/cubic foot. Should make things a little easier, I hope?

EDIT the SECOND: Also, holy crap did I ever lowball the weight of metal. Now I know see why everybody was yelling at me about that. I'm changing all of the Alchemetry targets to "Solid planetary metal body of no more than 8 cubic ft. and weighing no more than 5,000 lb". I am so sorry, people. :smallfrown:

[Arkhaic]

Makes me think of a class I'm designing that does gravity/weight stuff, but is still useful in combat. (The lodebearer reminded me of it too). The most practical application in combat so far is to Establish Control over everyone in the area (it let's me change their weight at will, instead of requiring physical contact) and then increase the weight of their eyelids. How's line of sight working out for you now Mr. Rocket-Tag?

Edit: Earlier I was talking about a flux effect inside of a semi-plane.

[Amechra]

Don't worry, Kellus; I, too, was surprised when I saw how heavy stuff like Gold was.

[General Patton]

But if you're looking for an easy way to fly around in a suit, may I suggest a controlled polarcane flux centered around you with a gravity trait? You can flip the gravity in the bubble whatever direction you want, and you freefall. You could also automate something like that with some heuristic programming to essentially make you weightless, by stuttering the reverse gravity effect on and off.

I thought putting Imachination stuff on your person was awesome but, by Celestia, this is the greatest thing ever. After finally rereading the spatial reference principles with a proper mindset of "I can totally wear these", I must point out that you could surround your flight flux with several additional fluxes that direct gravity away from you. Now, if you have all these fluxes surrounding a small object instead and have both Double Time and Slow Time Demiplanes attached to it and get your trusty AI to micromanage all the things, you can fly around with deflector shields in an extradimensional cockpit that either reduces travel time and aging or gives you bullet-time for that extra competitive edge. But wait, there's more! Take that object underwater first, encase it in Orange Filters and lift it out of the water and it's now in a total vacuum. Carefully place and orient semi-spaces around the object such that oncoming air from any direction is portaled around the object. Your flying machine is no longer subject to a terminal velocity and you shouldn't have to worry about wind speeds compromising your vacuum chamber.

[Gideon Falcon]

My one issue with this frankly fantastic class is the Silver Input Transformer and the Green and Violet Kaleidomantic Filters. Specifically, you have caster level checks pitted against skill checks. There are not a lot of ways to optimize caster level checks, whereas skill checks are easily optimized from level one. In addition, you can take twenty on the skill check. This means that, at first level, with the rogue Aiding you, CHA of 16+, 4 ranks in UMD, and Skill Focus (UMD), fairly low investment, you could make items that grant the user SR 32. At twentieth level (my rule of thumb being a standard primary ability modifier of +12 at that point), with The Architect, this increases to at least 58 without items.

Really, the CL checks should have a DC that scales linearly with level, not something like skill checks.

Once the negative is over and done with, though, HECK YES!!!
This is yet another masterpiece worthy of Kellus, and resonates with me especially, because I plan on some day writing a book or something on how magic would interact with real-world physics. Combining that concept of magiscience with your magitek, the Geek level becomes well over 9000.

[Kellus]

My one issue with this frankly fantastic class is the Silver Input Transformer and the Green and Violet Kaleidomantic Filters. Specifically, you have caster level checks pitted against skill checks. There are not a lot of ways to optimize caster level checks, whereas skill checks are easily optimized from level one. In addition, you can take twenty on the skill check. This means that, at first level, with the rogue Aiding you, CHA of 16+, 4 ranks in UMD, and Skill Focus (UMD), fairly low investment, you could make items that grant the user SR 32. At twentieth level (my rule of thumb being a standard primary ability modifier of +12 at that point), with The Architect, this increases to at least 58 without items.

In my defense, the pseudo-spell resistance is one-half the Use Magic Device check, but your point still stands.

I used a different mechanic on a later principle that I wrote when a similar issue came up. The main problem is that in this system you very specifically do not have a "gramarist level", which makes the traditional DC formula hard to use. The solution I came up with was a formula of 5 + 5 per principle you know from that discipline. That starts out at a flat 10 at level 1, and maxes out at 25 30. Not perfect, but I like the predictability a lot better. Thank you for bringing my attention to this oversight! :smallsmile:


Once the negative is over and done with, though, HECK YES!!!
This is yet another masterpiece worthy of Kellus, and resonates with me especially, because I plan on some day writing a book or something on how magic would interact with real-world physics. Combining that concept of magiscience with your magitek, the Geek level becomes well over 9000.

Hey, I'm glad you like it! I think magitek is a pretty awesome idea, too!


I thought putting Imachination stuff on your person was awesome but, by Celestia, this is the greatest thing ever. After finally rereading the spatial reference principles with a proper mindset of "I can totally wear these", I must point out that you could surround your flight flux with several additional fluxes that direct gravity away from you. Now, if you have all these fluxes surrounding a small object instead and have both Double Time and Slow Time Demiplanes attached to it and get your trusty AI to micromanage all the things, you can fly around with deflector shields in an extradimensional cockpit that either reduces travel time and aging or gives you bullet-time for that extra competitive edge. But wait, there's more! Take that object underwater first, encase it in Orange Filters and lift it out of the water and it's now in a total vacuum. Carefully place and orient semi-spaces around the object such that oncoming air from any direction is portaled around the object. Your flying machine is no longer subject to a terminal velocity and you shouldn't have to worry about wind speeds compromising your vacuum chamber.

I... I have no words. This is beautiful.

Fun story time! The Orange filter, and then all of Kaleidomantics, and then this entire idea initially came from me wanting a way to build a vacuum airship in D&D. I kept thinking that there had to be some way to use magic to keep gas out of an area, but nobody ever thought that there should be rules about that sort of thing. :smallsmile:

[Milo v3]

You may want to add Heal to the class list, otherwise the Biollurgist specialists are screwed.

Edit: As a mental excerise I was wondering about creating a living poket watch:

Get 1 cubic foot of gold (Cost 48,000 gp)
Phase Change - Lower its melting point.
Heat to a molten state.
Lower Density to 132.277 lb.
Phase change - increasing its melting point.
Get crafted into a pocket watch (Dimunitive in size).
Attach 1 or three Gravity Polarcane Fluxes to it.
Convert pocket watch into Biostructure.
Animate Construction

Finished Result = Living golden scarab/pocket watch which can attach to or lie in my hand as if it weighed nothing and "fly" back into my pocket at its whim. In addition, if anyone steals it, it will weigh 60 kg.

Note: Level 14 is required.

Also, I think I'm going to try and make a Disciple; Horotheurgy. Sadly its name doesn't sound very Magiteky.

[Eldan]

Time you mean? Tempo- works as a prefix, the Latin word for time.

Alternatively, go Greek and use either Kairos or Chronos, both of which mean time. Chronotect is a pretty cool name. Kairogenist (Maker of the right moment). Chronurgist (maker of time).

[Eldan]

So, one of my players wants to build a god computer now.
Still working on details, but the basics is a system that telepathically detects pious thoughts and outputs divine spells that are helpful to the praying person. Divine magic for everyone!

[Omnicrat]

So, one of my players wants to build a god computer now.
Still working on details, but the basics is a system that telepathically detects pious thoughts and outputs divine spells that are helpful to the praying person. Divine magic for everyone!

Man. And I thought I was saving the world by making solar powered spell transformers for food, water, and illness in every town...

[EdroGrimshell]

...What would happen if a warforged or other race that doesn't need sleep just just kept on working to build something continuously for a week?

[Kellus]

You may want to add Heal to the class list, otherwise the Biollurgist specialists are screwed.

Good catch, thank you.


As a mental excerise I was wondering about creating a living poket watch

Nice use of the density mod!


So, one of my players wants to build a god computer now.
Still working on details, but the basics is a system that telepathically detects pious thoughts and outputs divine spells that are helpful to the praying person. Divine magic for everyone!

That's the coolest idea for a deity I think I've ever heard. :smallsmile:


...What would happen if a warforged or other race that doesn't need sleep just just kept on working to build something continuously for a week?

Yeah, if you can get around sleep you're a much more efficient gramarist!

[Eldan]

One of my players, the Yggdratecture specalist, had an idea for what is basically a gramarie grenade: a semispace filled with a substance (oil and alchemist's fire came up, but also biollurgical creatures), tethered to something like glass or clay that breaks on impact.
What's your opinion on this? I ruled that breaking the tether counts as tearing the space from the tether.

[Omnicrat]

I was thinking: Wouldn't higher prices for specialist principles make sense? They're harder to come by, they're incredibly useful, and they are very necessary for almost everything Gramarists want to do. It seems like specialists would charge more for their unique principles than their common ones.

[Kellus]

One of my players, the Yggdratecture specalist, had an idea for what is basically a gramarie grenade: a semispace filled with a substance (oil and alchemist's fire came up, but also biollurgical creatures), tethered to something like glass or clay that breaks on impact.
What's your opinion on this? I ruled that breaking the tether counts as tearing the space from the tether.

I'd tend to agree. Breaking or destroying the tether should collapse whatever is attached to it.

That being said, alchemist's fire and its ilk don't stack the way that most people think they should, which is the reason you don't see people throwing barrels of it around in catapults already. Having a massive amount of it in one place increases the area that it affects, but not the damage. Although you could combine a nice delivery system like this with an acid output to make the surprise a little more potent... :smallamused:


I was thinking: Wouldn't higher prices for specialist principles make sense? They're harder to come by, they're incredibly useful, and they are very necessary for almost everything Gramarists want to do. It seems like specialists would charge more for their unique principles than their common ones.

I need to do some thinking anyway about pricing for gramarie, since so much of it is subjective. Somebody earlier in the thread suggested relative price levels compared to the tech level of the setting, and it's a pretty good idea. This is as well, and I think combining them should have the effect of:

1. Not allowing players to get crazy rich at low levels
2. Not allowing players too easy access to high level stuff they can't make
3. Not allowing players to ignore specialist constraints

I need to run my numbers a few more times before I make any changes, but this is an excellent suggestion. Thank you! :smallsmile:

[Volthawk]

I'd tend to agree. Breaking or destroying the tether should collapse whatever is attached to it.

That being said, alchemist's fire and its ilk don't stack the way that most people think they should, which is the reason you don't see people throwing barrels of it around in catapults already. Having a massive amount of it in one place increases the area that it affects, but not the damage. Although you could combine a nice delivery system like this with an acid output to make the surprise a little more potent... :smallamused:


Ah, awesome. I wasn't the guy who first came up with that, but I have an alternative version - stick a biollurgical chassis in there, so all you have to do is smash a glass bead or whatever and there you go, you have a creature out there! Magitech pokemon.

Of course, there's the life support issue, but I'm sure there's tons of ways of dealing with that.

[Eldan]

Have two creatures, one breathing X and exhaling Y, the other the same in reverse?

[Volthawk]

Have two creatures, one breathing X and exhaling Y, the other the same in reverse?

Biollurgical chassis also need to be fed. I guess some system with silver transformers doing food-generating spells could work...hmm, I guess you could give one of them the Metabolic Reserve graft, so they can spit out energy damage that charges up a corresponding transformer to power the food-generating tin one.

[Eldan]

That should work.

[Merchant]

I think it was Amechra who mentioned it but has any one figured how to make the internet yet. The way I see it couldn't every one have like personal circuit fixed on the and have the whole city covers in one big AI bubble. Isn't possible to have an AI imachinate ones voice and transfer the sound to routing bubbles to send messages?

How would one create nanobots?

I think Heuristics specialist should b very scary. Would be an interesting mind controller/hacker . Just for starters.

How long does overcoming the circuit? If it takes a minute your saboteur could do less time. I'm trying to come up with a security system. AI scans intruder's, purpose then pulls them into shifting plane, while at the same time a wall of imachination kicks in and shows the character attempting to break in (for purpose of any partners nearby.

Is there any way to scry like using cameras for security.

[radmelon]

Ah, awesome. I wasn't the guy who first came up with that, but I have an alternative version - stick a biollurgical chassis in there, so all you have to do is smash a glass bead or whatever and there you go, you have a creature out there! Magitech pokemon.

Of course, there's the life support issue, but I'm sure there's tons of ways of dealing with that.

stick a biollurgical chassis in there, so all you have to do is smash a glass bead or whatever and there you go, you have a creature out there! Magitech pokemon.

Magitech pokemon.

Magitech

pokemon

All of my want. (http://mylittlefacewhen.com/media/f/img/mlfw3682-1331715509946751.gif) This. We need more of it. Heck, you don't even need biolurgy. Just put any old creature inside. Heck, put soldiers in there and use it as an airdrop delivery system.

[Eldan]

How would one create nanobots?


My first instinct says biollurgic swarm or ooze, but I don't see any way of achieving that, right now.

[Hellwyrm]

First, I would like to say that this is one of the most beautiful, eloquent and, most of all, exciting pieces of homebrew I have seen on the forums. The possibilities that this spawns in terms of world-building, character concept realisations etc. is staggering.
Unfortunately I haven't read enough to come up with any new novel uses for this system, but the potential is very great indeed.

I just have a few questions about BIOY 101 and the volumes it effects in relation to the volumes taken up by creatures. I have read through the thread, but I found that the link you provided only had information about the length or height of a creature. Estimation is possible, but eyeballing the volume more exotic creatures occupy is open to a lot of interpretation, so would a list of creatures volumes per size category and whether they are quadrupeds or not would be great.

Secondly, making a HUGE SUPER MONSTER OF DEATH (really, this thing screams out for someone to attempt to recreate godzilla) using BIOY 228 is extremely problematic if you require sleep, because of the consecutive preparations required to animate objects of that size. For reference, an elephant is Huge in DnD, and in real life it takes up a volume of approximately 5 cubic metres, which is about 135 cubic feet, so creating a bio-chassis war elephant would take about 6 days straight.
One way to remedy this I see could be to alter the BIOY 273 to be able to alter a bio-chassis' size by one category larger or smaller, maybe as a special 8 hour preparation? With a maximum and minimum size limit based on your ranks in Heal?

Overall, love it so much :smallbiggrin:.

[Amechra]

You can speed up construction by either getting friends to help, or by simply locking the Principles you've got on there and coming back later.

[Hellwyrm]

You can speed up construction by either getting friends to help, or by simply locking the Principles you've got on there and coming back later.

.... You can come back to principles later? Wow I really misread something in there, I thought you had to prepare a Principle enough times to create/affect whatever you wanted to affect/create consecutively.
That's fine then.

Second nitpick, in BIOY 101, you can create affect cubic foot per preparation, but the HD of the biostructure created is keyed of the thickness of the structure. Does this mean I could prepare the Principle 100 times and create a wall 1 foot by 1 foot by 100 foot long and key the thickness of the 100 foot length, so it would have 100HD?

[Volthawk]

Could you put a list somewhere of how much all these materials cost per cubic foot? Even for the materials that have a cost per pound (iron, copper, silver, gold and platinum) need you to go to the DMG to find the cost, go here to Alchemetry to find density, and then work it out, so having the cost per cubic foot would be convenient. As for the rest...well. Adamantine, cold iron and crystal, although they have writeups, all only work out their costs based off usage in weapons and armour, not for other items or just chunks of the stuff. And the rest of the materials needed (like lead, mercury, diamond and tin), we don't have any pricings, only density for most of them (but some like diamond don't even have that). So yeah, knowing how much we're supposed to pay for the materials to make all the gramarie stuff would be useful.

EDIT: Oh, and how biollurgical chassis size in cubic feet quite relates to size category would be handy.

[radmelon]

.... You can come back to principles later? Wow I really misread something in there, I thought you had to prepare a Principle enough times to create/affect whatever you wanted to affect/create consecutively.
That's fine then.

Yeah, I don't think it's ever explicitly mentioned anywhere, but since it is needed in order to work for more than 16 hours a day, most people were assuming it. It would be good for it to be explicitly mentioned in the text.

[Eldan]

As for the biollurgy volume problem:
I took the possibly too complicated approach.

I calculated the volume of a human (70 kg body weight at density equal to water (~1) gives 0.07 cubic meters or about 2.5 cubic feet).
Next assumption was that that human fills a 6 ft. cube in D&D terms, or 216 cubic feet.
That gives a correction factor of 90: living creatures have about 1/90 of the volume in actual body matter of the space they take up in D&D terms.

Which leads to this table. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApCuoSxQMcvddFVudnpLc1pOY29WLU13eGV2eUJMU Xc)

[Amechra]

Actually, if you check the Principles of Grammarie class feature, right after where it talks about multiple Grammarists working on the same project, there is a little bit about Grammarists "locking" a set of Principles so that only they can come back and work on them.

Also, thanks for the table; I'm assuming that the minimum/maximum cubes columns are the numerical ranges for cubic feet?

So a Human would take about 3 preparations, if I'm reading that right.

[Nanoblack]

If someone sticks their head through a black filter, does their body go limp?

[Omnicrat]

If someone sticks their head through a black filter, does their body go limp?

Since they don't loose all of their memories, I'm going with no.

[Amechra]

Yes they would; their nerve impulses would stop at the Black barrier.

Anesthetic, perhaps?

[Eldan]

Actually, if you check the Principles of Grammarie class feature, right after where it talks about multiple Grammarists working on the same project, there is a little bit about Grammarists "locking" a set of Principles so that only they can come back and work on them.

Also, thanks for the table; I'm assuming that the minimum/maximum cubes columns are the numerical ranges for cubic feet?

So a Human would take about 3 preparations, if I'm reading that right.

"Cubes" refers to the area a creature fills by the rules. A medium creature is between four and eight feet in size, so I assumed that it takes up a cube with a length of between four and eight feet for combat purposes. It's actual body volume is only a small part of that, which are the volume columns.

[Omnicrat]

Yes they would; their nerve impulses would stop at the Black barrier.

Anesthetic, perhaps?

No other barrier prevents the internal functions of life, why would black?

[Amechra]

Because all the other ones specifically state that they don't affect things inside a living creature, and Black has no such note?

[Omnicrat]

Because all the other ones specifically state that they don't affect things inside a living creature, and Black has no such note?

But then when your brain passed through it, or books, or scrolls, wouldn't the information contained within be lost?

[Silva Stormrage]

But then when your brain passed through it, or books, or scrolls, wouldn't the information contained within be lost?

I am confused by this statement :smallconfused: The black filter essentially makes it impossible to know what is happening on the other side of the filter... nothing more nothing else. Thus when someone's hand is through the filter their brain should not know what the hand is experiencing since you can't know whats happening on the other side.

Or at least thats what I thought the argument was.

[Kellus]

Magitech pokemon

Radmelon's right. Want.


First, I would like to say...

Thank you! I'm glad that you like it. Amechra's exactly right that you can come back to a principle later on to keep working on it, so if you spend enough time or get enough buddies to help you you can make some truly enormous stuff.


Second nitpick, in BIOY 101, you can create affect cubic foot per preparation, but the HD of the biostructure created is keyed of the thickness of the structure. Does this mean I could prepare the Principle 100 times and create a wall 1 foot by 1 foot by 100 foot long and key the thickness of the 100 foot length, so it would have 100HD?

This has to do with how hit points in objects are measured. Most material, like iron, has hit points per inch of thickness. That means that if I swing a hammer at a wall of iron or something, I know how many hit points I have to chew up before I break through to the other side in that particular spot. Unlike creatures, structures don't necessarily suffer critical existence failure just from smashing part of them (unless we're talking about sunders). Because biostructure has properties of both creatures and objects, instead of a flat number of hit points per inch it has one HD per inch of thickness. Note that when you turn it into a chassis and give it life, it loses this material accounting technique and switches to a normal creature progression of hit points.


Could you put a list somewhere of how much all these materials cost per cubic foot? Even for the materials that have a cost per pound (iron, copper, silver, gold and platinum) need you to go to the DMG to find the cost, go here to Alchemetry to find density, and then work it out, so having the cost per cubic foot would be convenient. As for the rest...well. Adamantine, cold iron and crystal, although they have writeups, all only work out their costs based off usage in weapons and armour, not for other items or just chunks of the stuff. And the rest of the materials needed (like lead, mercury, diamond and tin), we don't have any pricings, only density for most of them (but some like diamond don't even have that). So yeah, knowing how much we're supposed to pay for the materials to make all the gramarie stuff would be useful.

I'll see what I can do, absolutely. The problem with arbitrary pricing though is that in a gramarie-enabled setting you can turn iron (cheaply available) into pretty much any other metal. The price of metals has a lot to do with the technology level of your setting.


EDIT: Oh, and how biollurgical chassis size in cubic feet quite relates to size category would be handy.

The space and height guidelines are just that- guidelines. Like Eldan said, humans take up far less space than a Medium-sized creature could take up. Essentially, they're maximums. As soon as you roll over the maximum space alloted to a Medium creature (measured by volume) you end up classified a Large creature. That being said, the rules are incredibly inconsistent with this, having long and tall and skinny and fat creatures that make no sense with their designated size category. So... yeah! For something inherently inventive like designing a chassis, your best bet is to describe the proportions and features of it, figure out what rough category it fits into, and then decide how much of that maximum space is actually filled with monster. :smallsmile:


If someone sticks their head through a black filter, does their body go limp?

Very interesting question, and it relates to the nature of information. I'm going to go with sort of. Explicitly the only way that information can be carried back and forth through a Black filter is physically. Sensory information just doesn't pass through it. But everything else in the world does pass through it like it weren't there. If you reach through a Black filter and touch something, you wouldn't feel it because the sensory information needs to move from your hands to your mind, passing through the filter. So, yeah, anesthetic is totally possible with it. But once your brain passes through to the other side, you can interpret everything on that side of it properly. I realize that the rules text for this filter is somewhat ambiguous, I'm going to try to clean it up and explain it a little better. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!


But then when your brain passed through it, or books, or scrolls, wouldn't the information contained within be lost?

Similarly, no. It's sensory outputs, exactly as described in imachination, that don't pass through a Black filter.

--

After doing a lot of calculations the last two days, I'm also introducing two new rules to YGGD 101 to stop ridiculous abuses:

1. Fields that occur inside of a semi-space do not pass through the portal and radiate out from it. For example, if you have an input transformer inside of a semi-space, the net doesn't extend past the portal.
2. Similarly, inside is a nebulous term when it comes to a semi-space. From now on, something is called inside whatever space more than 50% of its volume is in. Eldrikinetic engines now only generate Push in the space that they're described as being inside.

--

Secondly, I also have new pricing rules! Huzzah!

When you buy something made of gramarie, you're essentially buying a set of principles that have been prepared on your behalf, and you're buying the raw materials. Every principle that has been used has a value of anywhere from 1 to 9. Every principle starts at a value of 0 for price.

{table=head]Factor|Value
Baccalaureate Principle|+1
Magisterial Principle|+3
Doctorate Principle|+5
Baccalaureate Tech-Level Setting|+2
Magisterial Tech-Level Setting|+1
Doctorate Tech-Level Setting|+0
[Specialist] Principle|+2[/table]

Once you establish the value of each principle that went into the thing you're buying, check this chart for the price of purchasing it:

{table=head]Value|Price
1|3 gp
2|9 gp
3|27 gp
4|81 gp
5|243 gp
6|729 gp
7|2,187 gp
8|6,561 gp
9|19,683 gp[/table]

This has several ramifications: the same gramarie is valued less by society as the general technology level of the society advances. For example, a magical empire on the Astral Plane which is at Doctorate-level won't be willing to pay as much for your semi-space as the mud farmers back home.

Next, specialist principles are now much more valued, since only one out of any eight gramarists will have the specialisation that you need.

In general, the numbers seem to work fairly well to stop players from abusing it too badly on both ends: making a ton of money for nothing, and buying awesome stuff too cheaply (especially stuff that they couldn't make for themselves, like specialist principles).

[jseah]

Light Beam
A Gold output transformer outputs full daylight for 4 ebbs. Full daylight is quite energy intense.

The Sun's rays are attenuated as they pass through the atmosphere, thus reducing the irradiance at the Earth's surface to approximately 1000 W m−2 for a surface perpendicular to the Sun's rays at sea level on a clear day.

With an appropriate system of mirrors (specifically a parabolic mirror), this can be turned into a beam of light. A pair of focusing lenses later, you have a tight beam of very bright light.

Why would you want such a thing? Well, for one thing, bubbles get obscenely expensive in terms of time as they get larger. And chaining wood transformers results in stupidly high losses.

You can use light beams to perform long range power transmission (10+ kilometers) at 75% maximum efficiency using a Gold input on the other end, with little required other than a set of focusing lenses if you need a waystation due to curvature and such.

Also, if you have enough UMD and ebbs, it's also somewhat like a laser cannon. No, that was definitely not an intentional result. =P

[General Patton]

Time to design my first handheld weapon. Create a demiplane, preferably time accelerated, and build in it a generator system linked to a Crystal Output Transformer. Encapsulate the Transformer in a sphere-like configuration of semi-space portals that loop around to the other side. Place at least one additional portal in this area and link them to the ends of your gun-shaped implements of choice. Assign an AI control of the portals and Transformers, turn on your epic sub-woofer and accumulate infinite decibels. If you'd like to limit the hemispherical wave of destruction that ensues when you open the portal, just fashion a barrel out of Black Filters to make it into a cone or a beam.

Here's another interesting idea: get a sphere of uniform density and tether two gravity Fluxes to it so that exactly half of the sphere is in each one. Tether a Violet Filter to the sphere and then get an AI to modulate the gravity Fluxes to get the sphere floating perfectly stationary in the air. Finally, have the Fluxes directed in opposite directions.

[Quester]

Now this is a very complex system so forgive me if my following assumptions are fundamentally flawed.

1) A golden arcanodynamic input creates a 5ft bubble of darkness in otherwise complete day light producing 3 ebbs

2) A golden arcanodynamic output requires 4 ebbs to fill its bubble with sun light, whether that bubble is 5ft or 50ft

If those points are correct then one could create a 50ft sphere of light would cost 4 ebbs per round to power and put a number of golden inputs within that area producing tremendous free power. If I’m right it’s probably because golden transformers are unique in that increasing the bubble actually increases the affect, were most have a measurable affect unrelated to area.

Also regarding the YGGD 101 rule changes. Aw, now I’m going to have to rethink several of my contraptions. Do the new rules affect output transformers, or affects that target the closest person or object?

How do the new YGGD 101 rules affect heuristic circuits, are nodes within semi-spaces that are within heuristic fields counted as being in the heuristic field themselves? My gut says no but I have to ask.

Also can a Gramarist use his eldritch blast as a power source?

[Amechra]

I would think so...

But yeah, you can do some very nasty things with a Daylight Cannon; you'll need a cart, but you can vaporize many undead without much problem by just pointing the aperture at them and removing a cover.

There's also the fact that you can make Gold a lot lighter by converting it into Biostructure, then combining it with a cubic foot of Tin, also converted to Biomass.

Since it always goes for the worst of all values, you'd end up with the equivalent of 1 cubic foot of Gold and 1 cubic foot of Tin with Tin's stats.

Then, alter the density of this material by a factor of [Diplomacy check/10]; so, if you can hit a DC 40 Diplo check, you can easily get it down to just weighing 90 lb/cubic foot.

So, yeah, you just cut down weight by 1020 lbs, even though you doubled the volume taken up.

Then, we have the thing absorb light, and turn something nasty into a vicious acid. So, for example, take Quicksilver, which is a liquid at room temperature, and turn it into a vicious acid.

I'm sorry, everything immersed in the doubletime death fluid has the rate of damage DOUBLED.

Yay 40d6 Acid damage/round equivalent!

[Kellus]

Now this is a very complex system so forgive me if my following assumptions are fundamentally flawed.

1) A golden arcanodynamic input creates a 5ft bubble of darkness in otherwise complete day light producing 3 ebbs

2) A golden arcanodynamic output requires 4 ebbs to fill its bubble with sun light, whether that bubble is 5ft or 50ft

If those points are correct then one could create a 50ft sphere of light would cost 4 ebbs per round to power and put a number of golden inputs within that area producing tremendous free power. If I’m right it’s probably because golden transformers are unique in that increasing the bubble actually increases the affect, were most have a measurable affect unrelated to area.

Good question! You're right that gold transformers work a little differently than most of them, and the key thing you missed is that output transformers have bubbles attached to them that follow all the same rules for input transformers. This only comes up when you have something like the heat or cold or light transformers that affect some ambient feature inside of the net; for the other transformers it's only real relevance is that the bubbles have to match in size to fit them together.


Luminous output generates illumination within the bubble. The level of the illumination depends on the amount of energy transformed. If 2 ebbs are transformed, shadowy illumination is generated. If 3 ebbs are transformed, normal light is generated. If 4 ebbs are transformed, full daylight (including all benefits related to daylight, such as its effects on vampires) is generated. A specific level of radiance can be set when the transformer is first prepared, and the level can be modulated by anyone holding the transformer. Excess energy increases the area of the illumination, increasing the bubble of light's radius by 10ft. per ebb. Light output from a transformer still radiates lesser illumination beyond its normal radius like any other light source.

So it starts off with a radius of the normal bubble size for the net, and extra ebbs can advance the bubble size beyond that. You're absolutely right that you could probably set up a machine that uses sets of gold input and output to make some free energy, but it's not quite as simple as just setting the gold output to 500ft. or something.


EDIT: I'm sorry, I was looking back over your post, and I'm actually not sure whether you thought that the bubble of light was increasable with extra ebbs, or if you thought that the radius could arbitrarily be decided when you set it up. If the former, that is indeed what's intended. Sorry if I misinterpreted :smallfrown:



Also regarding the YGGD 101 rule changes. Aw, now I’m going to have to rethink several of my contraptions. Do the new rules affect output transformers, or affects that target the closest person or object?

Haha, yeah, I'm sorry. There's just too many easy exploits, like completely negating the point of engines having weight.

Specifically it targets area effects. You can still, say, shoot an arrow through the portal, or a ray, or something like that. But something like a fireball or an output transformer's bubble stops at the boundary.


How do the new YGGD 101 rules affect heuristic circuits, are nodes within semi-spaces that are within heuristic fields counted as being in the heuristic field themselves? My gut says no but I have to ask.

Good catch! The circuit is itself a bubble-shaped field which can control the portal. So you can control the portal opening or closing, which could also trigger a circuit built inside of the space, but you don't automagically get to control everything inside the space. This is actually a fairly key point, because it means that you can't have a six-mile wide demiplane under the perfect control of one circuit just because the portal is inside of the bubble. :smallsmile:


Also can a Gramarist use his eldritch blast as a power source?

Yes! It's a spell-like ability, and can be used to power a silver input. I gave it to them specifically so that they would always have a way to generate energy, actually. That's also why silver nets come with ARCD 101.


Time to design my first handheld weapon. Create a demiplane, preferably time accelerated, and build in it a generator system linked to a Crystal Output Transformer. Encapsulate the Transformer in a sphere-like configuration of semi-space portals that loop around to the other side. Place at least one additional portal in this area and link them to the ends of your gun-shaped implements of choice. Assign an AI control of the portals and Transformers, turn on your epic sub-woofer and accumulate infinite decibels. If you'd like to limit the hemispherical wave of destruction that ensues when you open the portal, just fashion a barrel out of Black Filters to make it into a cone or a beam.

I really like that use of Black filters! That's very inventive. :smallsmile:


Why would you want such a thing? Well, for one thing, bubbles get obscenely expensive in terms of time as they get larger. And chaining wood transformers results in stupidly high losses.

You can use light beams to perform long range power transmission (10+ kilometers) at 75% maximum efficiency using a Gold input on the other end, with little required other than a set of focusing lenses if you need a waystation due to curvature and such.

Also, if you have enough UMD and ebbs, it's also somewhat like a laser cannon. No, that was definitely not an intentional result. =P

That's pretty super great. Once you have long-range transmission like that, it also means that you can have circuits communicating with each other across massive distances. And also it just totally seems like a thing that would happen, with engineers designing this awesome power source and somebody getting the idea to use it as a death cannon. :smallsmile:

EDIT


Then, we have the thing absorb light, and turn something nasty into a vicious acid. So, for example, take Quicksilver, which is a liquid at room temperature, and turn it into a vicious acid.

I'm sorry, everything immersed in the doubletime death fluid has the rate of damage DOUBLED.

Outstanding. Awesome use of quicksilver and acid outputs, that's really clever.

[Hellwyrm]

Radmelon's right. Want.
This has to do with how hit points in objects are measured. Most material, like iron, has hit points per inch of thickness. That means that if I swing a hammer at a wall of iron or something, I know how many hit points I have to chew up before I break through to the other side in that particular spot. Unlike creatures, structures don't necessarily suffer critical existence failure just from smashing part of them (unless we're talking about sunders). Because biostructure has properties of both creatures and objects, instead of a flat number of hit points per inch it has one HD per inch of thickness. Note that when you turn it into a chassis and give it life, it loses this material accounting technique and switches to a normal creature progression of hit points.


Ahh, so when trying to damage a section, it has HD and thus hitpoints based on the thickness relative to the direction the damage is coming from?


Which leads to this table. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApCuoSxQMcvddFVudnpLc1pOY29WLU13eGV2eUJMU Xc)

That table’s great Eldan!

After a much more thorough read through, I have just a few more teeny, tiny, miniscule little questions in relation to some of the Principles.

1. With orichalcum in ALCH 364, since one cubic foot of orichalcum weighs 1,340lb according to your table and stores 100 Ebbs, a “bead” of orichalcum which stores 1 Ebb will have a weight of 134lb, and if the bead was in the shape of a cube would have size lengths of approximately 2.5 inches (a bit bigger than a clenched fist). Not sure if this was intentional, or not?
2. Also with the same principle, with Alkahest is there a limit to the volume of metal that can be dissolved in some volume of Alkahest? With one cubic foot of alkahest could I cumatively create infinite effective alkahest, because it specifies that the dissolved metal is added to the volume of the Alkahest solution? Would adding a limit to the volume of non-Alkahest metal that can be dissolved in an Alkahest solution based on the volume of the pure Alkahest solution work?
3. In ELDK 355, with the lightning leap ability, the wording does not specify what is the end of a leap, so how far can you travel with one leap? Is it based of the speed due to the Push of the Engine and Bulk of the cargo?
4. When transforming planetary metals using ALCH 286, does the transformed amount key of the volume of the metals, or the weight of the initial and final metals? For example if I had 1 cubic foot of tin, would it create 1 cubic foot of gold? Or would it create a ¼ a cubic foot of gold? Additionally if a had a cubic foot of gold and turned it into tin, would it produce 1 cubic foot of tin, or would it create 4 cubic feet of tin?
5. Also with polarcane flux in YGGD 212, with the gravity and magnetic fields created, is there some kind of interaction with the effect of the gravity or magnetic field with the Push created by engines, and so can we use them to push objects somehow?
6. Does increasing the size of input bubble for an arcanodynamic transformer with ARCD 101 increase the number of Ebbs it can absorb? For example, if I have a gold arcanodynamic transformer, with a typical 5ft bubble input, then it can absorb a maximum of 3 Ebb per round, with full daylight in one square. If I then increase the input bubble size to 10ft (which has up to 8 squares included in the input), does that mean the gold transformer will then absorb a maximum of 24 Ebb per round (assuming the UMD check was high enough)?
/Super Nitpick Mode Engaged/ In IMCH 101, when talking about mimicry, you mean “Kenku” not “Kenky” /Mode Disabled/
Hope this feedback is of some use!

First use - Endless biostrucucture converter:
Scratch that, just released you can only use HEUR 302 with alchemetric or kaleidomantic stuff, not biollurgy :smallfrown:.
Ok then, may as well use what I've already got - endless wall reinforcer.
First create 2 gold arcanodynamic transformer set to input using ARCD 204, which turns freely available sunlight into Ebb. Then create a wooden arcanodynamic transformer, using ARCD 101, set to output the Ebbs created using the gold transformer as puissance. These two transformers have a bulk rating of 54, as they take up a Tiny space combined, and gold is extremely heavy. A simple orthogonal engine is created using ELDK 101. These three are then combined using one preparation of HEUR 101 and 6 preparations of HEUR 302 to create the logical decision to output the Ebb’s as puissance into 6 preparation of ALCH 101 to increase the hardness and hitpoints of a an adjacent volume of substance 3 times greater than that normally affected by a preparation of ALCH 101 (i.e. 24 cubic feet, or almost a 5ft by 5ft by 1ft rectangular prism), and further whenever this preparation is completed to route the Ebbs directly from the gold arcanodynamic transformers into the simple orthogonal engine, and so move the entire contraption forward by 5 feet along rails, and to then repeat this command upon the newly adjacent surface.
If I haven’t done anything wrong with the HEUR principles, this is an automatic wall reinforcer which you can plop down on some rails and use it to strengthen walls, and even to make proper roads, sidewalks etc.!

[Eldan]

If you combined several of those light rays with black filters, you could build a kind of laser semaphore. Now nothing is stopping you from building the internet.

[Amechra]

Alright, a challenge, everyone; what is the coolest device you can make at level, say, 6, assuming that you are the highest level Grammarist in the world?

[Omnicrat]

I think its easier to get infinite power generation from gold inputs/outputs than you think.

1) get a 385x385 feet space to work with, preferably in the open
2) create one gold output in the center of the space
3) create 8 gold inputs in each 5 foot square surrounding the input
4) link the inputs to the output via a circuit
5) either wait for the sun to shine or create a daylight spell
6) you generate 24 ebbs powering the gold input, creating roughly 385x385 area of sunlight on the ground, which is about 29,000 squares without anything in them
7) create gold outputs in each square
8) produce roughly 87000 ebbs per round.

Who needs orichalcum when you have gold transformers?

[Amechra]

Cut that number to a 9th; overlapping bubbles don't all generate energy, only the newest one does for any light in that area.

[Eldan]

One of my level six players is currently trying to build a sword made entirely from red filters. It would be charged by immersing it in lava.

That should be pretty good for the level 6 challenge. I'm ruling it as dealing 2d6 fire damage, and extra on a critical.

[Orderic]

Interesting idea for a sword. However, all of the required heat has to be in place before the last filter is constructed, otherwise the space between the filters will always be the same temperature.

[Eldan]

I think the idea was that there would be a cube of six filters, one of which could be moved to the side to open the cube, for recharging. It will probably be closer to a mace or warhammer than to a sword.

[General Patton]

If the inside of the sword is a closed space, then you can just super-heat the inside before adding the last filter. You'll never lose any of that heat when you swing it through someone, it'll steal everything back when you remove it from them. If you create some kind of facility to separate all the heat from thousands of gallons of lava, encase the heat in red filters and find a way to make it come out of a portal tethered to a handle, you've created a lightsaber.

[Eldan]

You don't need the portal. The filters can just go through someone.

[General Patton]

I meant that the red box full o' heat can slide in and out of the handle via portal so that you can sheathe it when you're done, and pretend you're a sith.

[Eldan]

Ah, right. Yes, that would be cool.

[Omnicrat]

If you combined several of those light rays with black filters, you could build a kind of laser semaphore. Now nothing is stopping you from building the internet.

Internet, television, radio, and telephone (hereafter refereed to as the hypernet) are easy once you get YGGD 241 and HEUR 328. This does assume overlapping intelligent cicuits that overlap can communicate with one another. If not it will cost a little more, but this is already something only the wealthiest nobles or most advanced societies would have.

1) create a central hub (if you can, do so on a demiplane)
2) in the central hub, create a massive intelligent cicuit
3) fill your hub with a power source (possibly my aforementioned solar power source if that stays in)
4) create spell outputs for clairvoyance and clairaudiance (giving sensory perception to the hub), Ghost sound, hallucinatory terrain, legend lore, illusory wall, several of major image and any other
5) create as many connected semispaces to the hub as you want hypernet links, have each space be locked as small as possible and have the terminus end attached to... I don't know, a shiny rock? It doesn't really matter.
6) sell these along with alchemetric silver spell outputs for clairvoyance and clairaudiance (giving sensory perception to intelligent circuits), Ghost sound, hallucinatory terrain, illusory wall, several of major image, and any other spell outputs you want to include in the hypernet along with an intelligent circuit filling the hypernet room.
7) preform television and radio show episodes in the hub using the spell outputs found on terminus ends of links or with performers while the the hub circuit is watching, allowing the hub to communicate how to cast the illusions to replicate the shows on terminus ends; allow people to "upload"
there own shows for the viewing pleasure of uploads; allow one person with a terminus to communicate with another person with a terminus, either only vocally or with a total illusory projection; read all books to the hub, allowing it to transmit the information from said books to termini who request them.

Now, this will cost millions of gp, but its still all that stuff rolled into one.

[Omnicrat]

Alright, a challenge, everyone; what is the coolest device you can make at level, say, 6, assuming that you are the highest level Grammarist in the world?

I can make a room where I fire eldrich blasts at a silver input and can replicate any spell of level 3 or lower.

A weapon made completely out of heat or cold with no blade.

Nigh indestructible tin armor plating for buildings and walls.

Before spell casting stopped working from one side of a YGGD 101 portal to the other, I could also make portable versions of the aforementioned spell room with a maximum of 7 outputs.

[Omnicrat]

Cut that number to a 9th; overlapping bubbles don't all generate energy, only the newest one does for any light in that area.

None of those input bubbles overlap. they all only fill up one 5 foot square

[Omnicrat]

Also, Kellus, did you have to break all my things?

Can't you at least add new Doctorate level principles that let you cast spells through semispaces and have totally semispaced engines that still work and stuff like that?

Maybe just a special 16th principle at level 20 or something for each specialty?

[jojolagger]

Alright, a challenge, everyone; what is the coolest device you can make at level, say, 6, assuming that you are the highest level Grammarist in the world?
Challenge Accepted.

I'm further assuming no access to help from other grammarist for production. I only need 5 principles. That said, there are a few Magisterial Principles that would add a lot.

A WWII era tank in 21 days. Thank you Spectroconstruction.

ALCH 101 with all properties applied to the fullest. Assuming +10 diplo, that's +15 hp/inch, +6 hardness, 1/3 fire and cold damage, +7.5 break DC.

ARCD 101 has a large silver inputs forming a bubble around the outside, meaning a large number of chances to catch and cancel incoming spells. (assuming E6, a really good caster would have a .9^X chance of failing to beat all the SR's). The bubbles can be layered by shaping the bubbles if need be. There will also be small bubbles inside, so magical occupants can power the magitek systems.
Further more, we'll have many silver outs on the same lump of silver. As many spells as possible will be loaded into those, the first orders of business being an ammo creation spell, and possibly animate object to avoid fuel costs, though I am sure Minor creation could produce fuel aplenty.

BIOY 101 offers me nothing at this point, and will be ignored.

ELDK 101 offers me me nothing at this point, why would I make a crappy engine when I have a working tank? Given the chance at a single Magisterial principle for further upgrades, the ascending engine is a strong choice.

HEUR 101 is really important. It channels energy from the outer defense field and charging points to the spellnode, and allows for someone with +1 in auto-hypnosis to control the spellnode. By preparing the circuit that makes logical decisions for the spellnode at 1, anyone should be able to command it from within the tank.

IMCH 101 offers me nothing. However IMCH 267 would also be a strong contender if I we to have one Magisterial principle. Because Invisible tank or flying tank. Invisible seems likely to win so that I don't have to include the other stuff that would be needed to run the flying tank (daylight production, orthogonal engines.)

KALD 101 allows for true fireball immunity, by covering the tank in red filters, and also allows yellow filters to allow immunity to arrows, stones, bolt, and most siege weapons. Some shenanigans would be needed for total protection of the tank while still allowing the gun to be fired, but the gun could be done away with, and a unseen servant could easily shift the anchor of the filter to allow firing.

YGGD 101 offers little, but the semi-spaces should help with comfortably fitting the crew inside for long periods, along with increasing ammo/fuel/food storage abilities. The third big contender for a Magisterial principle would be YGGD 241, as it would dramatically increase the size available inside the tank, potentially allowing for a larger crew (meaning more ebbs of magic), or private rooms with a small crew.

Furthermore, there will fallback systems of Silver in/out links that cast specific spells. Namely, Minor Creation, create food and drink, mending, make whole, Repair X damage, whatever spell is used to generate ammo, and a raw silver out to act as a backup cannon.

The Net result of this is a Tiger II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_II), with immunity to fire and most weapons, object resistances, massive health and hardness, access to almost every spell in existence, a maximum speed of 225 ft/round, Theoretically indefinite runtime, and a very good chance of ignoring magic. Plus, If we can set it up right, the circuit could counterspell anything that bypasses the SR.
Please note the dual machine guns and heavy cannon, all of which can effectively engage at 2000 ft.

I wish to note that with magic-psionics transparency, Minor Creation is available at level 1, meaning a large amount of fuel can be produced with 1 ebb.

Please note that a team of 3 level 1 warlocks could run the tank until the end of time. The Ideal selection would be me, the level 6 grammarist, and 4 of the most powerful people I can find with access to limitless magic. Assuming that is 4 grammarists of 4th or 5th level, we generate up to 6 ebbs a round after accounting for the loss from wood outs weakening the charge, Ideally, they'd all be warforged for 24 hour awareness..

Further more, by firing at it's own shields (using a spell with a 1 round delay) to charge, we can effectively store energy sans battery at the cost of 1 ebb/round. We generate 6 ebbs per round. I think that counts as winning.
Spoilered due to wall of text

TL:DR
I made a super magitek tank that never runs out of fuel, can fire forever, and can easily support its crew of 5 up to and beyond their natural time of death.
Spoilered for those who don't just want the summary.

[Quester]

So it starts off with a radius of the normal bubble size for the net, and extra ebbs can advance the bubble size beyond that. You're absolutely right that you could probably set up a machine that uses sets of gold input and output to make some free energy, but it's not quite as simple as just setting the gold output to 500ft. or something.


EDIT: I'm sorry, I was looking back over your post, and I'm actually not sure whether you thought that the bubble of light was increasable with extra ebbs, or if you thought that the radius could arbitrarily be decided when you set it up. If the former, that is indeed what's intended. Sorry if I misinterpreted :smallfrown:

Extra ebbs expand a golden transformer's light beyond its normal bubble, but as it is written you can still prepare the same output multiple times to get a larger radius for golden transformers, and it sounds like the light comes from the entire inside bubble, not from the center of the bubble.

Does the bubble of darkness made by a golden input create shade?



I made a super magitek tank that never runs out of fuel, can fire forever, and can easily support its crew of 5 up to and beyond their natural time of death.

I... I think you just broke warfare. This mean people or creatures with at-will spell like abilities are more useful in battle as controllable, endless batteries than soldiers.

[Amechra]

None of those input bubbles overlap. they all only fill up one 5 foot square

Wrong; it's a 5' radius bubble. It fills a lot more than a single 5' square.

EDIT: Then I remembered that you can have bubbles fill up less space than normal when making them. Carry on, citizen.

And I like the tank.

[jojolagger]

I... I think you just broke warfare. This mean people or creatures with at-will spell like abilities are more useful in battle as controllable, endless batteries than soldiers.

Actually, having them as rational beings with the ability to run the tank is also very important.
Also, enchant the tank cannons with distance. By assuming effective range is anywhere where you get less than -2 to hit from range, then the range increment of the tanks weapons would be something like 1000 ft., 2000 after distance. Meaning a good or luck shot can hit someone a mile away.

Plus, why can't we just use sending between AI nodes to make the internet?
If we assume 100 possible characters, and an average of 5 characters per word sending is awesome for this.

[Omnicrat]

Can one use a spell output to cast spells into the creation of a new output?

[Quester]

Actually, having them as rational beings with the ability to run the tank is also very important.
Also, enchant the tank cannons with distance. By assuming effective range is anywhere where you get less than -2 to hit from range, then the range increment of the tanks weapons would be something like 1000 ft., 2000 after distance. Meaning a good or luck shot can hit someone a mile away.

Plus, why can't we just use sending between AI nodes to make the internet?
If we assume 100 possible characters, and an average of 5 characters per word sending is awesome for this.

Darn, here I was looking forward to dehumanizing warlocks.

Also sending targets a creature, would an AI node count as one? If not you could just use a circuited biollurgical chassis. If it is a permanent telepathic could also be used for prolonged or continuous contact.


Can one use a spell output to cast spells into the creation of a new output?

I would think so, as long as the first spell output was able to cast the spell when the second spell output is first prepared. So a gramarist could use a spell output to make copies of it indefinitely by hand, or the spell output could be used in conjunction with HEUR 302.

As a complete side note can you eat and drink while preparing a principle? I only ask because if he could a human gramarist with the wakeful mind graph could work indefintely.

As another random question, could you put a semi-space inside another semi-space? if so infinite recursive storage, just make the opening to the interior semi-spaces as wide as the semi-space its in.

[General Patton]

I'd like to see some way to have an Exotic Intelligence mounted in a Biollurgical Chassis so that the EI can take class levels. The BC is treated as circuited for the purposes of being under the EI's control, but this allows the EI to experience the world in a meaningful way so as to develop skills and also grants it a body with which it can actually use all of its class features. I guess this would need to be a template with level adjustment.

On an unrelated note, remember that crazy EI-controlled hive of circuited BCs I described? Make those BCs as large as possible to give them maximum HD and give them the Ghost-Stitched Soul graft.

One final thing: does anyone know any good classes/builds for optimizing DR/-? I want to know who should be donating regenerated limbs to make the best Biollurgical Material.

[EdroGrimshell]

Did anyone think of the Engine that fires things as projectiles for the tank? For things immune to spells or specific energy types that'd make the tank ineffective for offense.

[Quester]

I'm pretty sure jojolagger's tank would have a mundane cannon or other weapon, seeing as he does give mention to ammo and such. I mean, mundane siege weapons are pretty powerful on their own and when your talking about a setting with extra dimensional spaces and altering base qualities of materials, gunpowder for a cannon doesn't seem to far fetched.

Also you can't use a stationary elderkinetic engine to launch things without magisterial principles.

[Eldan]

As a complete side note can you eat and drink while preparing a principle? I only ask because if he could a human gramarist with the wakeful mind graph could work indefintely.

Years of seeing both chemists and engineers at work seems to indicate "yes". :smallwink:

[Omnicrat]

Can a spell output cast into another spell output for the purpose of creation?

[Silva Stormrage]

An interesting idea presented itself to me with Biolurgy. Do the creatures it creates have souls? If they do then you could start mass producing them and sacrificing them (Rules in BoVD) to gain craft gold and craft xp. Or anything else you want. You could even make them WANT to be sacrificed by programming it as an instinct and get bonuses on the knowledge religion check. I could see an evil biolugirst mass producing creatures to sacrifice them and give his evil deity lots and lots of extra souls. I believe evil gods get stronger through this right? Or is it just devils?

Can you make a creature sentient and have instincts? :smallconfused:

[Quester]

Years of seeing both chemists and engineers at work seems to indicate "yes". :smallwink:

Heh. I shutter to ask if other biological functions can be done while preparing a principle


Can a spell output cast into another spell output for the purpose of creation?

I believe so, as long as its done at the same time?


An interesting idea presented itself to me with Biolurgy. Do the creatures it creates have souls? If they do then you could start mass producing them and sacrificing them (Rules in BoVD) to gain craft gold and craft xp. Or anything else you want. You could even make them WANT to be sacrificed by programming it as an instinct and get bonuses on the knowledge religion check. I could see an evil biolugirst mass producing creatures to sacrifice them and give his evil deity lots and lots of extra souls. I believe evil gods get stronger through this right? Or is it just devils?

Can you make a creature sentient and have instincts? :smallconfused:

That would an interesting situation for an adventure, a paladin striving to stop creatures form being killed, by killing said creatures.

I don't think that if you imbue a chassis with instincts it would have a soul, but one with intelligence probably would, although at that point they can take actions to protect themselves an you lose any control over them, or so I think. I also think you have to choose between instincts or intelligence but I could be wrong.

Edit:


The main criteria are that the creature be
alive and have an Intelligence score of 3 or higher.


So Sentience from BIOY 273 is needed.

[Amechra]

Actually...

Neither one prevents the other.

So you could make a perfectly intelligent creature that wouldn't be able to think outside of narrowly-proscribed guidelines.

[Silva Stormrage]

Actually...

Neither one prevents the other.

So you could make a perfectly intelligent creature that wouldn't be able to think outside of narrowly-proscribed guidelines.

Or the way I thought it might work an intelligent creature that has irresistible urges to do certain things when applicable. In this case, volunteer to be a sacrifice to an evil god.

[jojolagger]

One final thing: does anyone know any good classes/builds for optimizing DR/-? I want to know who should be donating regenerated limbs to make the best Biollurgical Material.

I know of an E6 build that stacks 'roll with it' from savage species in every feat slot he can, for Dr 2x/-, where x is the times the feat is taken. Heck, just make a really big HD thing and have it spend all its feats on roll with it. Grab Dr 100/- parts. Win. All you need is CON 20, toughness, and roll with it says outright that it stacks with itself.


Did anyone think of the Engine that fires things as projectiles for the tank? For things immune to spells or specific energy types that'd make the tank ineffective for offense.
Seeing as it is literally a Tiger II tank in addition to the magitek, it seemed superfluous. And it was the biggest gun used on a WWII tank.
However, as it has access to all combat spells and the raw blast option, the actual tank cannon would likely be rarely used, as a spell to produce ammo for any weapon isn't showing up. There is one for bolts, arrows, and sling bullets, but I can't find one that can do normal bullets.

[Amechra]

Of course that Tank would get annihilated by any culture using Magisterial-level tech.

And whatever counter there would be utterly destroyed by anything made with Doctorate tech.

Seriously, once you get up there, you get stuff like orbital lasers.

Or the ****ing Zerg horde.

[radmelon]

An interesting idea presented itself to me with Biolurgy. Do the creatures it creates have souls? If they do then you could start mass producing them and sacrificing them (Rules in BoVD) to gain craft gold and craft xp. Or anything else you want. You could even make them WANT to be sacrificed by programming it as an instinct and get bonuses on the knowledge religion check. I could see an evil biolugirst mass producing creatures to sacrifice them and give his evil deity lots and lots of extra souls. I believe evil gods get stronger through this right? Or is it just devils?

Can you make a creature sentient and have instincts? :smallconfused:

If I'm not mistaken, you've perfectly described Thrulls (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&subtype=+[%22Thrull%22])from MtG. I think. I'm not a big MtG fan.

[jojolagger]

Of course that Tank would get annihilated by any culture using Magisterial-level tech.
Not Necessarily. If I get a complete spellnode before them, I should still be able to win. Provided I can get the lock down on the spellnode concept before other do, I can use the ultimate cosmic power it comes with to maintain a monopoly. It would take Doctorate level stuff before I can scry and die anyone else, and magic and my current defenses should be sufficient, aside from 1 or 2 options.
Even then, magic should allow me to fight back well.


Seriously, once you get up there, you get stuff like orbital lasers.
That reminds me to build a Magisterial-level orbital weapon. Because you can't do it without some access to flight.

[radmelon]

Seriously, once you get up there, you get stuff like orbital lasers.

Or the ****ing Zerg horde.

Orbital zerg drop cannon. That is all.

[Omnicrat]

Can sunmetal store ebbs?

I think it it can it balances okay, because it is so dangerous to work with.

[radmelon]

No, sunmetal gives off energy, which either kills things, or, with a lead input, generates power. Attempting to charge sunmetal with ebbs will most likely result in a massive explosion.

[Kellus]

The third prestige class, the contractor, is now up. It's the specialist class in Alchemetry!

[Silva Stormrage]

Can sunmetal store ebbs?

I think it it can it balances okay, because it is so dangerous to work with.

Undead are immune to it's effects. Just saying. Its not that dangerous to work with.

[Kellus]

And for the questions that came up!


Can sunmetal store ebbs?

No, radmelon got it exactly right.


Can a spell output cast into another spell output for the purpose of creation?

Quester's right, after it's cast it's just like any other spell.


An interesting idea presented itself to me with Biolurgy. Do the creatures it creates have souls?

Fascinating, I never even thought about that. It's a great question, because in D&D beings really do have souls. I'm going to unfortunately have to go with no for most creatures, but I'm going to specify that creating sentient life brings with it a soul. So yes, you can build a race of programmed sentient cows that exist only to walk into a demonic slaughterhouse. :smalleek:

what have I done


I'd like to see some way to have an Exotic Intelligence mounted in a Biollurgical Chassis so that the EI can take class levels. The BC is treated as circuited for the purposes of being under the EI's control, but this allows the EI to experience the world in a meaningful way so as to develop skills and also grants it a body with which it can actually use all of its class features. I guess this would need to be a template with level adjustment.

Also a really neat idea! Cross-discipline stuff like that is really very interesting, and I like the idea so much that I'm going to make it one of the HEUR perks for the upcoming Heuristicism prestige class, the dreamason. :smallsmile:

For those wondering about making more interesting chassises as well, like swarms and oozes as Eldan(?) mentioned earlier, that'll be a perk for the biollurgy PrC, the graughtsman. Sorry for the delay with the PrCs, I'm back on track now and they should all be up in the next few days.


As a complete side note can you eat and drink while preparing a principle? I only ask because if he could a human gramarist with the wakeful mind graph could work indefintely.

Sure! Most people still need to sleep, but if you can get around that, go nuts! The rules are pretty vague on eating and drinking anyway, so I don't really care one way or the other.


As another random question, could you put a semi-space inside another semi-space? if so infinite recursive storage, just make the opening to the interior semi-spaces as wide as the semi-space its in.

This does work, and you can make very deep semi-spaces this way, but there's two caveats to keep in mind: first, you're limited by the maximum width of 2ft by 2ft to start with, and secondly even if the portal is as wide as the space, it's still a boundary for area effects like bubbles and bursts. Otherwise, go nuts!


TANK

This is just completely awesome, and I love it. :smallsmile:

That being said, this brings up an interesting point about modern technology. The assumption in most D&D settings, and in this material, is that moderns technology not only doesn't exist, but it's pretty much actively impossible. That is, it's actually impossible in-setting to build an integrated circuit or an aerofoil and so on. That's why I've presented magical alternatives, such as a simple orthogonal engine instead of an internal combustion engine to create horizontal movement. The example of the WWII-era tank in the spectroconstruction table was mostly there to show how much raw physical labour something like that would take to create, not necessarily the technological and scientific invention and advances that went into designing the tank in the first place. Spectroconstruction, as mentioned earlier, gives you unskilled labourers, and in a normal D&D setting, they wouldn't be able to invent and construct an actual tank I'm afraid.

That being said, if your setting actually includes real technology on par with that sort of thing, spectroconstruction is totally appropriate to build it. The thing to remember is that it's just unskilled labour, it's not people inventing and innovating things beyond the mundane technology of the setting. I realize it's a fine line to walk, but then you have craziness like using spectroconstruction to build things like actual computers and so on. :smallfrown:

EDIT

After some insightful comments by Quester, I've decided to drop the normal method of enhancing a gold output's light radius. Instead, excess ebbs are now transformed into a bolt of light akin to a searing light effect. Thank you for bringing up how ridiculous it was! :smallsmile:

[Qwertystop]

The third prestige class, the contractor, is now up. It's the specialist class in Alchemetry!

Why limit this to only Evil planes?

[Amechra]

Unless you are a Contractor, of course.

[Kellus]

Why limit this to only Evil planes?

Because that's just what the prestige class is; devils and demons are traditionally associated with tempting and making deals with mortals, and this class follows in that proud tradition. It's not like there's an alignment restriction, you can still be a Good person and negotiate with demons on the side, but the class itself is about dealing with fiends. :smallsmile:

EDIT


Unless you are a Contractor, of course.

Haha, yeah. But you still need to make the Diplomacy-as-Craft check, so whatever you build needs to be within the realm of what a Craft skill could normally design. There's still no invention, because there isn't a Craft (fully automatic machine gun) skill in the game. :smalltongue:

[Qwertystop]

Because that's just what the prestige class is; devils and demons are traditionally associated with tempting and making deals with mortals, and this class follows in that proud tradition. It's not like there's an alignment restriction, you can still be a Good person and negotiate with demons on the side, but the class itself is about dealing with fiends. :smallsmile:

Yeah, but among other things, this means that you can't use the capstone to call the souls of skilled artisans who weren't evil. And the thing is, that might not just be fluff. What if you want to make lots of medicines?

[Silva Stormrage]

CONTRACTOR IS AWESOME.

For Continual Carmot does it give regeneration or did you mean fast healing? If regen what bypasses it, and can it affect undead or creatures without con scores?

Personally I think there should be a cap on the amount of damage that you can deal with sunmetal just because I could see a contractor sitting in a semispace making a bomb which would could deal trillions of damage with trillions of negative levels >.>

General question about sunmetal. Is it blocked by death ward? Radioativity doesn't sound like negative energy to me so I wasn't sure.

For Phlegmatic Phlogiston I really don't think this is needed... Phlogiston is already REALLY REALLY REALLY good. Can't it easily make a generator that generates 98 ebbs a round?

For solomon's key, can you craft magic items with it? Assuming you can craft the items?

[jojolagger]

This is just completely awesome, and I love it. :smallsmile:

<reasons tank wouldn't normally work>

Honestly, I just saw the challenge and wanted to do something cool with Spectroconstruction. Oh hey, tank. I'll take a heavy German tank from late WWII, and use magic to cover the fuel and repair problems.

Another way to use Spectroconstruction would be to basically summon 1.2 carts a round, to drop on people or form barricades.

Also, with the magisterial principle KALD 207, you can seriously concentrate alcohol. Vodka is Water and ethanol, with trace amounts of other stuff. Pass it through a blue filter and you have near pure ethanol, which is a backup fuel source for the tank.
There is a more complex way to distill alcohol with only Baccalaureate principles, but needs a red filter box with the internal temperature between the boiling points of said alcohol and water.
Alternately, you just boil vodka and have some biomass filter out the water vapor.

[Kellus]

Good questions!


For Continual Carmot does it give regeneration or did you mean fast healing? If regen what bypasses it, and can it affect undead or creatures without con scores?

It just gives plain regeneration, which by the rules isn't passed by anything. Much like the tarrasque's regeneration, you would have to kill the person and then use a wish effect to keep them dead. Or more likely, since it's from something they ate, just tie them up while they're unconscious and wait 24 hours for it to pass out of their system.


Personally I think there should be a cap on the amount of damage that you can deal with sunmetal just because I could see a contractor sitting in a semispace making a bomb which would could deal trillions of damage with trillions of negative levels >.>

That sounds like a pretty awesome plot hook, I'll be honest. And remember that the range of the thing is still limited by the amount of it. Realistically, a normal sunmetal bomb is going to pretty much devastate the area anyway; 1d10 negative levels is enough to destroy nearly any society. This is mostly just added insurance.


General question about sunmetal. Is it blocked by death ward? Radioativity doesn't sound like negative energy to me so I wasn't sure.

Death ward protects against "death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects". Radiomantic bombs don't reference any of those, so no. As is, the only way to protect against it is to be inside of a lead input net, or in an antimagic field (and that last one won't help against a bomb made by a 20th level gramarist).


For Phlegmatic Phlogiston I really don't think this is needed... Phlogiston is already REALLY REALLY REALLY good. Can't it easily make a generator that generates 98 ebbs a round?

Yep. This makes one that generates more!


For solomon's key, can you craft magic items with it? Assuming you can craft the items?

Yes, if you have the Crafting feat you could make magic items with it really really fast, although you would have to supply materials and (ugh) XP as normal.


Yeah, but among other things, this means that you can't use the capstone to call the souls of skilled artisans who weren't evil. And the thing is, that might not just be fluff. What if you want to make lots of medicines?

This is interesting; the idea of summoning specific souls is mostly just fluff, the implication is that you can craft pretty much anything you want. But I realize that's a cop-out with what I just said to Amechra, so I'm going to add some expository text in there describing the limits to the Craft skills you can replicate. :smallsmile:

[jojolagger]

There's still no invention, because there isn't a Craft (fully automatic machine gun) skill in the game. :smalltongue:

Actually, the craft skill that lists available crafts uses such as. And gunsmithing fits quite nicely into that list. So would auto-making. :smalltongue:

[Kellus]

Actually, the craft skill that lists available crafts uses such as. And gunsmithing fits quite nicely into that list. So would auto-making. :smalltongue:

Okay, I give up. The contractor can build machine guns. :smalltongue:

Seriously though, I really liked the tank, and it kind of broke my heart to have to say that it wouldn't work. I changed the table entry in spectroconstruction and added a note about the unskilled labour aspect of it so that hopefully other people won't get a mistaken impression as well. :smallsmile:

EDIT: By the by, I ended up changing my mind about exotic intelligences and chassises. If you have a chassis connected to a circuit that has an EI, it can take control of it as if it were the brain of the creature.

[Silva Stormrage]

Good questions!



It just gives plain regeneration, which by the rules isn't passed by anything. Much like the tarrasque's regeneration, you would have to kill the person and then use a wish effect to keep them dead. Or more likely, since it's from something they ate, just tie them up while they're unconscious and wait 24 hours for it to pass out of their system.

And can it affect undead or constructs?




Death ward protects against "death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects". Radiomantic bombs don't reference any of those, so no. As is, the only way to protect against it is to be inside of a lead input net, or in an antimagic field (and that last one won't help against a bomb made by a 20th level gramarist).


The question I more of had then is do things that block negative levels block the negative levels gained through handeling radioactive material? Or the explosion from sunmetal?

[Kellus]

And can it affect undead or constructs?

Undead and constructs are both creatures, so they both gain the regeneration property for 24 hours if they consume carmot.


The question I more of had then is do things that block negative levels block the negative levels gained through handeling radioactive material? Or the explosion from sunmetal?

I'm... not clear what the question is, I'm sorry. Radiomantic negative levels are not from negative energy, so effects that block that sort of thing won't help you. It is supernatural in nature, so being in an antimagic field suppresses the radiomantic nature of sunmetal. And a lead input transformer has much the same effect.

[Silva Stormrage]

Undead and constructs are both creatures, so they both gain the regeneration property for 24 hours if they consume carmot.



I'm... not clear what the question is, I'm sorry. Radiomantic negative levels are not from negative energy, so effects that block that sort of thing won't help you. It is supernatural in nature, so being in an antimagic field suppresses the radiomantic nature of sunmetal. And a lead input transformer has much the same effect.

For the undead question I simply ask that because regeneration can't normally affect creatures without a con score. Also that makes any undead creature immune to damage while under it's affects as regeneration turns the damage into non lethal damage which undead and constructs are immune to.

For the second some things aren't like death ward were they specify negative energy. For example soulfire armor just blocks "Negative levels" you might want to specify that the negative level's aren't blocked by anything that normally blocks negative levels.

[EdroGrimshell]

Undead and constructs are both creatures, so they both gain the regeneration property for 24 hours if they consume carmot.

Technically, Regeneration is limited to living creatures, ones with a Con score, IIRC.

EDIT: Yep, I was Right (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration). Last line says it

[Kellus]

For the undead question I simply ask that because regeneration can't normally affect creatures without a con score. Also that makes any undead creature immune to damage while under it's affects as regeneration turns the damage into non lethal damage which undead and constructs are immune to.

Oh, excellent catch. Good point, I think I'll just avoid the entire problem by making it flat fast healing. Thank you, I can't believe I'm that dumb :smalltongue:


For the second some things aren't like death ward were they specify negative energy. For example soulfire armor just blocks "Negative levels" you might want to specify that the negative level's aren't blocked by anything that normally blocks negative levels.

Haha, no, something like that would be fine. These are negative levels that don't come from a negative energy source. So if you explicitly have an effect that blocks negative levels of all kinds, it provides immunity to radiomantic stuff. If you have something like an undead, which is explicitly immune to negative levels, it's also immune to radiomantic stuff. Death ward in particular doesn't give immunity to negative levels, it gives immunity to negative energy effects.

It's a fine line, but it's like being immune to fireballs and being immune to fire damage.


Technically, Regeneration is limited to living creatures, ones with a Con score, IIRC.

Yes, I had a flash of astounding stupidity. :smallredface:

[EdroGrimshell]

I'd actually like to see some extra disciplines/principles and PrCs that can have multiple specializations.

[Omnicrat]

I'd actually like to see some extra disciplines/principles and PrCs that can have multiple specializations.

2nd

Also, how do engines consume fuel? Is it matter to push or something different?

[Morcleon]

I'd actually like to see some extra disciplines/principles and PrCs that can have multiple specializations.

3rd. Also, perhaps some feats? Maybe a high (16-20) level one that allows your bubbles to penetrate semi-spaces? :smalltongue:

Question:
If you place an engine fully in a semi-space, then attach combined wood input/output transformers, placed intersecting the portal, would the engines be able to be powered by a heuristic circuit?

[General Patton]

EDIT: By the by, I ended up changing my mind about exotic intelligences and chassises. If you have a chassis connected to a circuit that has an EI, it can take control of it as if it were the brain of the creature.

So to clarify, the EI can't learn and gain class levels while inhabiting a chassis? So much for having an EI Wizard who governs a population of chassis and is capable of ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL to lay down some magical wrath. By the way, do EIs also have a soul?

[Kellus]

So to clarify, the EI can't learn and gain class levels while inhabiting a chassis? So much for having an EI Wizard who governs a population of chassis and is capable of ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL to lay down some magical wrath.

Absolutely they can. They have mental statistics and everything, they don't even need a body to gain class levels. But I imagine it would help.

Now, the LA on something like that, I have absolutely no idea since there are far too many variables. But an EI is well within their rights to take class levels.


By the way, do EIs also have a soul?

Based on the interpretation that sentience confers a soul as established with Biollurgy, yes they do.


I'd actually like to see some extra disciplines/principles and PrCs that can have multiple specializations.

Let me finish the core eight prestige classes for specialization, and then I'll see what I can do about hybrids. I could see some really interesting ones, like the heartisan (BIOY/ALCH specialist who builds things out of abstract emotions) or the theologineer (ELDK/YGGD specialist who, quite literally, moves mountains in the name of his god). But there are any number of those hybrids you could come up with (okay, actually 28), so I'd like to get the core specialties covered first.

Incidentally, for anyone interested, the discovery lists (Alchemastery, Elder Kinetic, etc) are intended to be universal, so any specialist prestige class would have access to them.


Also, how do engines consume fuel? Is it matter to push or something different?

Whatever you like. The important thing is that the fuel starts out in the same space as the engine, and is consumed. The special FX for that are entirely up to you.


3rd. Also, perhaps some feats? Maybe a high (16-20) level one that allows your bubbles to penetrate semi-spaces?

As I mentioned before, I'm very much not a fan of feats for single classes or specific magic systems like this, because all they do is give unfair advantages or create feat taxes. There are literally thousands of feats out there, I don't really want to add to the problem.

EDIT


If you place an engine fully in a semi-space, then attach combined wood input/output transformers, placed intersecting the portal, would the engines be able to be powered by a heuristic circuit?

Clever! I'm going to say yes, since none of the rules laid out in YGGD 101 are violated.

[Amechra]

I'd actually like to see some extra disciplines/principles and PrCs that can have multiple specializations.

You know, if you want to work with me on one or two...

I mean, there isn't one for Geo-Engineering, at the very least (it's large scale Landscape Architecture; basically, it would all be climate/weather control, turning deserts into rainforests and the like.)

[General Patton]

For Submerging Engines, can we get some sort of approximate conversion rate for HP to volume of fluid blood? With the help of Black Filter anesthetic and a bunch of magical healing, you could fuel the engine without actually killing anything.

Also, when an EI uses Abnormal Behavior to produce another EI, does it use their Intelligence or that of the Gramarist at the time of preparing Abnormal Behavior? A level 12 EI that took increases to Int could make an EI that starts out smarter than they did.

[Milo v3]

I like that idea of Geo-Engineering:
Use a principle to reduce Humidity in the air to 0, making it near impossible to rain, resulting in less plants, less plants results in no stability in soil, this results in sand. Thus a desert is soon formed. It would take a year or two to do but the results can be very interesting.

Also, I made a variant version of the Contractor as I don't use the Tome of Magic's Binding. Here is a link. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254261)

[EdroGrimshell]

Heh, sorry Amechra, I'm just not good enough to make this kind of stuff yet, I'll be able to pitch ideas and the like, but that's about is. I'm already having enough trouble with a bit of homebrew I'm making that builds souls from soul fragments (which is a 3rd party thing, TBH, so it likely won't show up on here).

[Kellus]

Interesting!


For Submerging Engines, can we get some sort of approximate conversion rate for HP to volume of fluid blood? With the help of Black Filter anesthetic and a bunch of magical healing, you could fuel the engine without actually killing anything.

Unfortunately, no. Having more hit points doesn't actually mean that you have more blood in you (in fact, it's not super clear what it means, but that's a whole other story). A 20th level character has roughly the same volume of blood in his body as a 1st level character. Bleeding has never really been covered by the rules in a volumetric fashion, so I'd suggest going by the adage that a person can stand to lose 1 gallon of blood before they pass out. Any more than that and it could get really dangerous.

If anything, I'd apply some sort of temporary Constitution or Strength damage from bloodletting, but I don't think the rules are consistent enough to make it a hard and fast rule.


Also, when an EI uses Abnormal Behavior to produce another EI, does it use their Intelligence or that of the Gramarist at the time of preparing Abnormal Behavior? A level 12 EI that took increases to Int could make an EI that starts out smarter than they did.

Okay, here's where Abnormal Behaviour gets interesting. When it's triggered, it's the original gramarist who actually prepared it, it's just activating later. Thus, it would use the mental statistics of the gramarist who prepared the AB. On the other hand, if an EI took levels in gramarist and then created another EI, it would use the mental statistics of the first EI, which by this point could've increased beyond their original parameters. :smallsmile:


I mean, there isn't one for Geo-Engineering, at the very least (it's large scale Landscape Architecture; basically, it would all be climate/weather control, turning deserts into rainforests and the like.)

That's a really cool idea! There are for sure other disciplines I'd like to look into after getting the basic system finished, but I wanted to get the essentials done first. Still, that's a super awesome idea. I'd be happy to help with something like that, too, if you like.

[General Patton]

If any of you have experience with thermodynamics would you mind doing some calculations? I've forgotten the exact mathematics involved.

You have an enclosed space made out of Red Filters. You super-heat the air inside. This air should be exerting greater pressure than the atmosphere and therefore pushes the outermost layers of air through the filters. The filters will separate the heat out of the air, causing the total thermal energy in the enclosed space to remain approximately constant. With a decreasing quantity of air molecules to possess this thermal energy, the air temperature will increase as a result. Based on whatever the functions are that describe this body of gas, would the pressure continue to exceed atmospheric pressure as the enclosed space asmptotically approaches a paradoxical combination of vacuum and nigh-infinite temperature? Or would it reach equilibrium?

[Quester]

I just realized something, red kaleidomantic filters are extremely dangerous. If a person passes through a red filter floating in space in a room that's 20 degrees Celsius their body temperature drops from about 37 degrees Celsius to 20 degrees Celsius, that's not fatal to everyone, but it is instant and severe hypothermia.



As the temperature decreases further physiological systems falter and heart rate, respiratory rate, and blood pressure all decreases. This results in an expected HR in the 30s with a temperature of 28 °C (82 °F).

Difficulty in speaking, sluggish thinking, and amnesia start to appear; inability to use hands and stumbling is also usually present. Cellular metabolic processes shut down. Below 30 °C (86 °F), the exposed skin becomes blue and puffy, muscle coordination becomes very poor, walking becomes almost impossible, and the person exhibits incoherent/irrational behavior including terminal burrowing or even a stupor. Pulse and respiration rates decrease significantly, but fast heart rates (ventricular tachycardia, atrial fibrillation) can occur. Major organs fail. Clinical death occurs. Because of decreased cellular activity in stage 3 hypothermia, the body will actually take longer to undergo brain death.

On a lighter note there are also some interesting culinary applications, a perfect even through and through roast as well as flash freezing and instant thawing.

As is my nature time for a question completely out of left field question, can you grow handicap graphs on a chassis?

[Hellwyrm]

I posted these questions before and I think they might have been missed, so here they are again!
1. With orichalcum in ALCH 364, since one cubic foot of orichalcum weighs 1,340lb according to your table and stores 100 Ebbs, a “bead” of orichalcum which stores 1 Ebb will have a weight of 134lb, and if the bead was in the shape of a cube would have size lengths of approximately 2.5 inches (a bit bigger than a clenched fist). Not sure if this was intentional, or not?
2. Also with the same principle, with Alkahest is there a limit to the volume of metal that can be dissolved in some volume of Alkahest? With one cubic foot of alkahest could I cumatively create infinite effective alkahest, because it specifies that the dissolved metal is added to the volume of the Alkahest solution? Would adding a limit to the volume of non-Alkahest metal that can be dissolved in an Alkahest solution based on the volume of the pure Alkahest solution work?
3. In ELDK 355, with the lightning leap ability, the wording does not specify what is the end of a leap, so how far can you travel with one leap? Is it based of the speed due to the Push of the Engine and Bulk of the cargo?
4. When transforming planetary metals using ALCH 286, does the transformed amount key of the volume of the metals, or the weight of the initial and final metals? For example if I had 1 cubic foot of tin, would it create 1 cubic foot of gold? Or would it create a ¼ a cubic foot of gold? Additionally if a had a cubic foot of gold and turned it into tin, would it produce 1 cubic foot of tin, or would it create 4 cubic feet of tin?
5. Also with polarcane flux in YGGD 212, with the gravity and magnetic fields created, is there some kind of interaction with the effect of the gravity or magnetic field with the Push created by engines, and so can we use them to push objects somehow?
6. Does increasing the size of input bubble for an arcanodynamic transformer with ARCD 101 increase the number of Ebbs it can absorb? For example, if I have a gold arcanodynamic transformer, with a typical 5ft bubble input, then it can absorb a maximum of 3 Ebb per round, with full daylight in one square. If I then increase the input bubble size to 10ft (which has up to 8 squares included in the input), does that mean the gold transformer will then absorb a maximum of 24 Ebb per round (assuming the UMD check was high enough)?
/Super Nitpick Mode Engaged/ In IMCH 101, when talking about mimicry, you mean “Kenku” not “Kenky” /Mode Disabled/
Hope this feedback is of some use!
EDIT: Sounded unnecessarily terse, thats what I get for posting to early.

[radmelon]

I just realized something, red kaleidomantic filters are extremely dangerous. If a person passes through a red filter floating in space in a room that's 20 degrees Celsius their body temperature drops from about 37 degrees Celsius to 20 degrees Celsius, that's not fatal to everyone, but it is instant and severe hypothermia.

The description for red filters explicitly notes that it does not do this.

[Quester]

Red: A red filter excludes heat. Changes in temperature or external sources of hot or cold do not pass through the filter or have any effect on the temperature of the other side. Any physical objects or creatures which move through a red filter which are warmer than the ambient temperature on the other side have their internal temperature reduced to match the temperature on the other side of the filter. A red filter is vulnerable to extremely low temperatures. If it absorbs a total amount of cold damage equal to the Spot check, it collapses.


Where does it say this?

[radmelon]

Huh, I could have sworn it said something to that effect. It says it for orange, green, and indigo filters, so I assumed that it was the same for red. My bad.

[Kellus]

Sorry, didn't mean to miss your questions!


Question's reposted as not answered:
1. With orichalcum in ALCH 364, since one cubic foot of orichalcum weighs 1,340lb according to your table and stores 100 Ebbs, a “bead” of orichalcum which stores 1 Ebb will have a weight of 134lb, and if the bead was in the shape of a cube would have size lengths of approximately 2.5 inches (a bit bigger than a clenched fist). Not sure if this was intentional, or not?

Ahaha, yeah, I guess the dimensionality on that is a little silly. The bead terminology is based off of an old Indiana Jones computer game. If the dimensions are a little off, that's okay, that's just how orichalcum works.


2. Also with the same principle, with Alkahest is there a limit to the volume of metal that can be dissolved in some volume of Alkahest? With one cubic foot of alkahest could I cumatively create infinite effective alkahest, because it specifies that the dissolved metal is added to the volume of the Alkahest solution? Would adding a limit to the volume of non-Alkahest metal that can be dissolved in an Alkahest solution based on the volume of the pure Alkahest solution work?

No, the idea is that when you dissolve metal in it you end up with more dissolving solution, so in theory it could keep spreading and dissolve massive amounts of metal over a long period of time. Totally intentional, and it gets more awesome even worse with the Amazing Alkahest discovery by a contractor. :smallsmile:


3. In ELDK 355, with the lightning leap ability, the wording does not specify what is the end of a leap, so how far can you travel with one leap? Is it based of the speed due to the Push of the Engine and Bulk of the cargo?

The Push always determines what speed is imparted to the vehicle on the round. The squares that it moves through with this speed are affected by the lightning effect as it transforms into a bolt of electricity. This is why it specifies a Push result in the first place.


4. When transforming planetary metals using ALCH 286, does the transformed amount key of the volume of the metals, or the weight of the initial and final metals? For example if I had 1 cubic foot of tin, would it create 1 cubic foot of gold? Or would it create a ¼ a cubic foot of gold? Additionally if a had a cubic foot of gold and turned it into tin, would it produce 1 cubic foot of tin, or would it create 4 cubic feet of tin?

Volume is preserved, but that's a very good point. I'll specify that in the original write-up.


5. Also with polarcane flux in YGGD 212, with the gravity and magnetic fields created, is there some kind of interaction with the effect of the gravity or magnetic field with the Push created by engines, and so can we use them to push objects somehow?

Yes! Simple orthogonal, ascending, and descending engines are all keyed based off of the direction of gravity relative to the engine. When you change the direction of gravity, that also changes the direction that those engines generate Push in. There's always more than one way to do something in gramarie.


6. Does increasing the size of input bubble for an arcanodynamic transformer with ARCD 101 increase the number of Ebbs it can absorb? For example, if I have a gold arcanodynamic transformer, with a typical 5ft bubble input, then it can absorb a maximum of 3 Ebb per round, with full daylight in one square. If I then increase the input bubble size to 10ft (which has up to 8 squares included in the input), does that mean the gold transformer will then absorb a maximum of 24 Ebb per round (assuming the UMD check was high enough)?

No. It increases the size of the net, but not the number of ebbs that it can process in a given round.


/Super Nitpick Mode Engaged/ In IMCH 101, when talking about mimicry, you mean “Kenku” not “Kenky” /Mode Disabled/
Hope this feedback is of some use!

Very useful, thank you! Good typo catch, I'll fix that right up. Thanks for the insightful questions! :smallsmile:


I just realized something, red kaleidomantic filters are extremely dangerous. If a person passes through a red filter floating in space in a room that's 20 degrees Celsius their body temperature drops from about 37 degrees Celsius to 20 degrees Celsius, that's not fatal to everyone, but it is instant and severe hypothermia.

Yes, they are very dangerous! Remember that in D&D low and high temperatures aren't as dangerous as in real life, but they can still be very hazardous. The appropriate rules section is extreme climate conditions.

I like culinary applications, too. :smalltongue:


As is my nature time for a question completely out of left field question, can you grow handicap graphs on a chassis?

A handicap graft is a 0th level graft, and you have one free 0th level graft slot on every chassis (usually for disguises and aesthetics). You're also allowed to put lower level grafts in higher level slots if you want to, so if you want more handicap grafts for some reason you could use on of the 1st-4th level slots.


You have an enclosed space made out of Red Filters. You super-heat the air inside. This air should be exerting greater pressure than the atmosphere and therefore pushes the outermost layers of air through the filters. The filters will separate the heat out of the air, causing the total thermal energy in the enclosed space to remain approximately constant. With a decreasing quantity of air molecules to possess this thermal energy, the air temperature will increase as a result. Based on whatever the functions are that describe this body of gas, would the pressure continue to exceed atmospheric pressure as the enclosed space asmptotically approaches a paradoxical combination of vacuum and nigh-infinite temperature? Or would it reach equilibrium?

Really interesting question! Red filters are really weird because they somehow filter out heat while allowing the passage of everything that normally causes heat (ie, agitated molecules). The easiest explanation for this paradox is that in D&D land, heat is an actual thing that can exist on its own. This is actually really well backed up by the rules, because otherwise a wall of fire or a fireball makes absolutely no sense. Fire is an element in D&D, and is an actual thing that you can create and move around without having to be formed or controlled in the same way as normal heat. Carnot was correct, the caloric theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caloric_theory) is actually how the universe works, and heat is just a substance that can be tossed around.

Under this interpretation, the red box makes perfect sense. Air moves out as it heats up, and the heat remains inside the box until it reaches equilibrium at the point when it's the same temperature as the source. For most flames, that's somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 degrees Centigrade. So you end up, absurdly, with a very hot vacuum. :smalleek:

[Kellus]

Hang on, sorry, I just doublechecked that:


1. With orichalcum in ALCH 364, since one cubic foot of orichalcum weighs 1,340lb according to your table and stores 100 Ebbs, a “bead” of orichalcum which stores 1 Ebb will have a weight of 134lb, and if the bead was in the shape of a cube would have size lengths of approximately 2.5 inches (a bit bigger than a clenched fist). Not sure if this was intentional, or not?

If 1,340 lb of orichalcum stores 100 ebbs, then 1 ebb is stored in 13.4 lb, not 134 lb. Thought that seemed a little off. :smalltongue:

[Hellwyrm]

Ah ok that makes more sense. Thanks.


The Push always determines what speed is imparted to the vehicle on the round. The squares that it moves through with this speed are affected by the lightning effect as it transforms into a bolt of electricity. This is why it specifies a Push result in the first place.

Yes, but I haven't seen anything about the time spent in the lightning leap or the distance traveled in it. It does provide the Push, and so in turn the speed of the object is given. However does one leap last for one round? Or a minute?

[Kellus]

Ah ok that makes more sense. Thanks.

Yes, but I haven't seen anything about the time spent in the lightning leap or the distance traveled in it. It does provide the Push, and so in turn the speed of the object is given. However does one leap last for one round? Or a minute?

Every jump is a single movement that the engine and its cargo takes. When you punch it, you transform into a bolt of lightning. The Push generated tells you the speed that you get based on the Bulk of the thing:


Lightningleap: A lightningleap engine uses electricity as a fuel source and is made out of solid mercury. It requires 10 volts of electric potential for every leap it makes. Every leap provides the equivalent of 200 points of Push in any direction, as the engine and whatever it is attached to transforms into a bolt of lightning. The vehicle reconstitutes into its original form at the other side of the leap. It also deals electricity damage to everything it passes through during the leap (10d6 damage with a Reflex save for half damage, against a DC equal to the Concentration check of the engine). A lightningleap engine can also be activated for a single leap with 10 ebbs of puissance.

So for example if you would have gotten a speed of 90ft. based on the amount of Push, you teleport 90ft. in any direction, and every square between your starting square and ending square is struck by lightning. :smallsmile:

[radmelon]

So, rather than giving a steady push over a series of rounds, the lightningleap engine works in a series of jumps each 6 seconds apart.

[Quester]

Huh, I could have sworn it said something to that effect. It says it for orange, green, and indigo filters, so I assumed that it was the same for red. My bad.


That's ok, I was working on the same assumption until I reread it just now for General Patton's enclosed space question



Yes, they are very dangerous! Remember that in D&D low and high temperatures aren't as dangerous as in real life, but they can still be very hazardous. The appropriate rules section is extreme climate conditions.


I'm sorry but I think red filters present a unique situation. There are only rules for a person of normal body temp being exposed to cold for long periods of time, not for having their body temperature removed. One pass through a red filter in room temp is the equivalent of hours spent freezing in weather. Also having your body temperature reduced to, say, -10 degrees Celsius would be an instant death effect.

[General Patton]

Under this interpretation, the red box makes perfect sense. Air moves out as it heats up, and the heat remains inside the box until it reaches equilibrium at the point when it's the same temperature as the source. For most flames, that's somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 degrees Centigrade. So you end up, absurdly, with a very hot vacuum. :smalleek:

Aww, but that's not apocalyptic enough. :smallfrown:
Under real physics this happens.
Some quick Googling reveals that one cubic meter of air at STP has roughly 2.5X10^25 molecules. Set up your cubic meter red box in the winter when it's freezing at 273 K and blast the inside with fire until it's 1273 K. Eventual result? One molecule at 2.5X10^28 + 273 K. Heck, I wanted to siphon the heat out of a lava flow for this purpose. That's got way more molecules full of heat.

[Kellus]

So, rather than giving a steady push over a series of rounds, the lightningleap engine works in a series of jumps each 6 seconds apart.

Yes, exactly! Which is why the description compares it to a Ballistic engine in that sense, rather than the sustained motion of every other engine (except the planejumping one of course). :smallsmile:


I'm sorry but I think red filters present a unique situation. There are only rules for a person of normal body temp being exposed to cold for long periods of time, not for having their body temperature removed. One pass through a red filter in room temp is the equivalent of hours spent freezing in weather. Also having your body temperature reduced to, say, -10 degrees Celsius would be an instant death effect.

You're absolutely right, some basic research shows that even small changes in internal body temperature are incredibly dangerous. I'll go the way of other filters and say that living creatures cannot have their body temperature changed using a Red filter. Luckily for everyone involved, that still allows dead bodies to be modified, so the Instant Defroster is still viable. And thus was Christmas saved once more.


Some quick Googling reveals that one cubic meter of air at STP has roughly 2.5X10^25 molecules. Set up your cubic meter red box in the winter when it's freezing at 273 K and blast the inside with fire until it's 1273 K. Eventual result? One molecule at 2.5X10^28 + 273 K. Heck, I wanted to siphon the heat out of a lava flow for this purpose. That's got way more molecules full of heat.

That does in fact sound pretty super awesome, and that was only my interpretation. If that would make your game better (and it's hard to imagine it not), be my guest! :smalltongue:

[Amechra]

...

And then you use it to get as many ebbs as you need.

Because a Red filter won't block the bubble for an Ice Input...

[radmelon]

...

And then you use it to get as many ebbs as you need.

Because a Red filter won't block the bubble for an Ice Input...

You have doomed us all. But at least it will be an awesome doom.

[Kellus]

You have doomed us all. But at least it will be an awesome doom.

Haha, indeed. The lava generator is pretty much the end-all be-all for generators. On the other hand, if you go with the caloric interpretation, it's just a convenient way of partioning off heat. You could still use it to build up a huge reserve of heat before you get access to phlogiston, but not quite at the level of doomsday apocalypse, since the heat is used up during the transformation, and would have to recharge. :smalltongue:

[ForzaFiori]

Ok, this is epic. I'm subscribing and reading through it sometime this weekend after all that text sets in.

[Kellus]

By the way, I wanted to mention that I really appreciate the intricate analysis and rules-reading that people are giving this project. I read somewhere that the best way to edit game rules would be to get a group of optimizers and offer them 10 bucks for every infinite loop or gamebreaking combo that they found. I don't have that much money (I don't think anybody has that much money), but I still wanted to thank everybody that's contributed to the early stages of this project. This project is all about creative problem-solving and using things in totally novel ways. You guys have thought up stuff and imagined things to do with these tools that I would never have thought of, and it just blows me away. Thank you! <3

[jojolagger]

By the way, I wanted to mention that I really appreciate the intricate analysis and rules-reading that people are giving this project. I read somewhere that the best way to edit game rules would be to get a group of optimizers and offer them 10 bucks for every infinite loop or gamebreaking combo that they found. I don't have that much money (I don't think anybody has that much money), but I still wanted to thank everybody that's contributed to the early stages of this project. This project is all about creative problem-solving and using things in totally novel ways. You guys have thought up stuff and imagined things to do with these tools that I would never have thought of, and it just blows me away. Thank you! <3
I love doing stuff like this. I get to combine Math, Engineering, legalese, and programming, to produce interesting results in a setting that interesting despite having no significant NPC's (yet).
Also, the wording for semi-spaces only stops bubbles originating from inside a semi-space from exiting, and it makes no such rule about a bubble from outside the semi-space entering it. Or through it if a semi-space is linked to another and then an opening.
Meaning the change to stop the AI from being everywhere doesn't stop my method for the AI being everywhere.

[Kellus]

Also, the wording for semi-spaces only stops bubbles originating from inside a semi-space from exiting, and it makes no such rule about a bubble from outside the semi-space entering it. Or through it if a semi-space is linked to another and then an opening.
Meaning the change to stop the AI from being everywhere doesn't stop my method for the AI being everywhere.

Hey, nice catch. Fixed it, although the change was for more than that. I was also concerned about people carried around infinite numbers of transformers and getting all the benefits of their input nets at once. :smalltongue:

EDIT:
no significant NPC's (yet).

I do actually have a lot of plans for this, once the basic system is fairly solid and I'm happy with expansion material (most notably PrCs and racial substitution levels) I'm thinking about making a setting to show off some of the sorts of things that are possible with the technology...

[radmelon]

I just realized that biollurgy and eldrikinetics makes "Rocket Surgeon" a perfectly viable character concept. :elan:

[Eldan]

Hm. Biorocket. I'll get back to you on that.

[Eldan]

You know what prestige class should be adapted to this system? The Madspark Eccentric. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127043)

1. Because it's awesome.
2. Because it fits Gramarie.
3. Because sparks are clearly gramarists.
4. Because Girl Genius is the perfect source of inspiration for this system.

[General Patton]

Now that I think about it, you don't need to resort to the abomination that is caloric theory in order to have our so-called hot vacuum. When/if the last remaining molecule passes through the red filter, the heat separated from it becomes infrared radiation.

[Answerer]

If any of you have experience with thermodynamics would you mind doing some calculations? I've forgotten the exact mathematics involved.

You have an enclosed space made out of Red Filters. You super-heat the air inside. This air should be exerting greater pressure than the atmosphere and therefore pushes the outermost layers of air through the filters. The filters will separate the heat out of the air, causing the total thermal energy in the enclosed space to remain approximately constant. With a decreasing quantity of air molecules to possess this thermal energy, the air temperature will increase as a result. Based on whatever the functions are that describe this body of gas, would the pressure continue to exceed atmospheric pressure as the enclosed space asmptotically approaches a paradoxical combination of vacuum and nigh-infinite temperature? Or would it reach equilibrium?
I... think thermodynamics breaks down somewhat in that kind of situation. Thermodynamics is a statistical analysis of the gas as a whole, which becomes decreasingly reasonable the fewer atoms are in the gas.

It does remind me of the sun's corona, which is a region of a few but energetic particles. They are, in fact, the hottest particles in the sun, IIRC, but since they're so spread out you wouldn't even notice them (the radiation from the sun, though, that you definitely would).

And yes, once the last atom has exited the space, the word temperature no longer has a definition. The best I can come up with is that the filters, or the space between them, "remembers" the temperature, so that any particles that pass through the filter are heated to that temperature. It's sort of like if homeopathy were a real thing, instead of just a particularly egregious form of quackery...

[Eldan]

Now there's an epic principle for you. Functioning Homeopathy.

The epic Alchemetrist can take one potion and make two from it, both at an increased caster level.

[General Patton]

Well, you can already dissolve Carmot in a nigh-infinite quantity of water to spread the benefits to an entire population. Using Alkahest to dissolve the Carmot and retrieve it in granular form makes it pretty easy. Now, going so far as to enhance potions by reducing the amount of ingredients and energies in the dosage kind of breaks suspension of disbelief.

[radmelon]

It also occured to me, that a red filter box of hot vaccuum could be used as a simple, one-shot poor man's battery, way before you get orichalcum. Just be sure to enclose the box of red filters in a cage of real matter, so that someone doesn't put their hand through it, and lose the hand.

[Quester]

Red filters could be used to melt and solidify metal, or anything, extremely quickly, making molding much more time efficient.

If you made a red filter box with a removable top and poured molten metal into it, wouldn't the metal solidify instantly upon being cooled after it passes through the filter, in effect make a metal box in the shape of the filter?

What happens if two red filter boxes with radically different internal temperatures passed through each other's space? My thoughts are that either they couldn't, they'd just bump into each other as two solid objects would, or the universe would implode.

Being submerged in lava causes 20d6 damage (according to the dungeon master's guide), so if you dropped an ice input in lava (with protection from red filters of course) it would (if my understanding is correct) accrue any were from 3 to 20 ebbs per round. That combined with using red filters to make habitable rooms in even the most extreme temperatures makes a volcano lair so much more feasible.

Also what counts as a container for the purpose of most filters? Could you use a pipe or tubing or even some form of tap to remove matter from a reservoir contained by filters?

By freezing water, applying ALCH 202, and melting it you can produce flammable water, that is all.

[Amechra]

"Why won't the fire go out? I keep hitting it with water, but it won't stop burning!"

Better yet, you can make water magnetic; that way, you can sculpt it with magnets into cool shapes.

That's... actually a decent solution to the problem of "security doors"; just make a thin layer of Magnetic Acidic Water, and then just keep it in the shape of a rectangle, slotted into an acid-proof door.

And the thing about an Ice transformer is that it would cause the lava to harden to stone upon contact with the bubble (it causes a reduction to 20 degrees, which is cold enough that the lava just stops being hot. Consider that, unlike Phlogistan, Lava does not generate its own heat. Meaning that an Ice Input would simply cause it to cool.)

My theory is that, when an Ice input overlaps with a Red-barrier-encased space, the input simply cools the area inside the Red barrier, as it just converted it into energy.

[Quester]

And the thing about an Ice transformer is that it would cause the lava to harden to stone upon contact with the bubble (it causes a reduction to 20 degrees, which is cold enough that the lava just stops being hot. Consider that, unlike Phlogistan, Lava does not generate its own heat. Meaning that an Ice Input would simply cause it to cool.)


I think you're underestimating the heat of lava, lava is liquid at any where from 700 to 1,200 degrees Celsius, so I don't think dropping the temperature by 20 degrees would cause lava in a volcano to solidify.

Random question time, can you add a graph using a principle to the descendent of a of a hand made chassis? and How close do you have to be to something to prepare a principle on it? Right now, unless I'm missing something, there's no limit to the distance and you don't even need a line of sight or effect.

[Morcleon]

I think you're underestimating the heat of lava, lava is liquid at any where from 700 to 1,200 degrees Celsius, so I don't think dropping the temperature by 20 degrees would cause lava in a volcano to solidify.

Not by 20 degrees. To 20 degrees. Slight difference there. :smallwink:

Question! Could gravity fluxes allow for a sort of "landing gear" on starships, if placed and oriented correctly? Would they need to cover the entire ship?

[Silva Stormrage]

Noticed an error, both the Prime Mover and the Lode Bearer don't have heal as a class skill.

[Quester]

Not by 20 degrees. To 20 degrees. Slight difference there.


Ah, my bad. I guess you'd need some form of conveyor belt to bring lava to the input then drop it back into the volcano



Question! Could gravity fluxes allow for a sort of "landing gear" on starships, if placed and oriented correctly? Would they need to cover the entire ship?


Heck, the whole engine could be an area of gravity flux, well on earth or in orbit at least.

Thank you so much, you made me realize that Gramarie gives you everything you need to make a space ship, from space age materials to C02 scrubbers to just about everything else. Orcs in space.

[radmelon]

Conveyor belt? Heck, just use carefully placed and oriented gravity fluxes.

[Amechra]

Alright, what principle do you think altering how much friction/adhesion a substance has?

Maybe as an additional Baccalaureate principle?

[Eldan]

Aside: I have now decided that the Skype Gramarie campaign I'm running will be set in our world, in the year 1517. The players are disgraced nobles (and one slave escaping from the Turk conquest of Egypt) who are leading the first Spanish expedition to the American Mainland. They will run into the Aztec Magitech empire. (While armed with magitech themselves. One of them is also a priest).

[Quester]

How do you resolve bull rush attempts against objects? I'm thinking about magnetic polar arcane fluxes, I would assume it would be like repel metal or stone effect but I'm not sure.

[ArkenBrony]

you know, i only just realized that all the quotes for this class are from Xkcd

[jojolagger]

I know that people have been requesting feats for this and that Kellus dislikes feat tax feats.
Solution
A mastery feat for each principle.
IE

ALCH 101 Mastery
Prerequisites: ALCH 101, Diplomacy 4 ranks
Effect: ALCH 101 takes half the time to prepare if the object in question already has ALCH 101 applied to it.
Now, it doesn't have enough of an effect to make everyone with ALCH 101 take it, but makes hardening walls easier, and makes applying all four ALCH 101 effect to an object take 1.25 hours instead of 2.

Now, it's not a feat tax, because not all alch 101 users will need the time saving, and there will likely be other options worth considering. Further more, there are 5 principles per discipline, and 8 disciplines. The average level 20 grammarist will have 12 feats, not even enough to master all the principles they know.
Also, an races with a bonus feat gain nothing, from these, because you need the principle to take the mastery feats, and you can only have 1 principle at first level.

[Amechra]

you know, i only just realized that all the quotes for this class are from Xkcd

They aren't; off the top of my head, the Alchemetry one is from Babylon 5, the Heuristicism one is from War Games, the Arcanodynamics one is a famous quote about the laws of thermodynamics, and the Eldrikinetics one is from some 19th century poet (can't remember which.)

Now, XKCD might actually have those quotes somewhere in its archives; doesn't mean that they originated there.

[radmelon]

Well, the imachination one is, and alchemetry one is from Carl Sagan, if I'm not mistaken.

[Matar]

Hey Kellus, for YGGD 212 it says that you have to pick one property to incur inside the space.

Could we then treat it again with YGGD 212 to get both properties?

If we can't, what about tying something magnetic and something gravity together? Would both effects take place?

[EdroGrimshell]

Quick question, what would happen to the eldritch blast damage if you gestalted this with Warlock? Do the two stack or overlap?

[Omnicrat]

Can a lightningleap engine with 100 epr make 10 jumps per round, or only one?

[Kellus]

Hey, awesome questions everybody, a little under the weather but will put up another prestige class tonight. Meanwhile:


You know what prestige class should be adapted to this system? The Madspark Eccentric.

Oh, that's really cool! I saw it when it was first posted, but I've never really gotten into Girl Genius. If there's anyone that is familiar with the source material that wanted to do a conversion or homage, I'd be more than willing to work with them for it!


It also occured to me, that a red filter box of hot vaccuum could be used as a simple, one-shot poor man's battery, way before you get orichalcum. Just be sure to enclose the box of red filters in a cage of real matter, so that someone doesn't put their hand through it, and lose the hand.

Yeah, that was pretty much what I ended up with, too. You can get the box pretty damn hot, but it's not like phlogiston where it just perpetually maintains a temperature. You would have to heat it up again before you could use it again. Still has some fascinating applications, though...


Also what counts as a container for the purpose of most filters? Could you use a pipe or tubing or even some form of tap to remove matter from a reservoir contained by filters?

Anything fully enclosed, including things like boxes and flasks and people, but not drinking straws, for instance.


Random question time, can you add a graph using a principle to the descendent of a of a hand made chassis? and How close do you have to be to something to prepare a principle on it? Right now, unless I'm missing something, there's no limit to the distance and you don't even need a line of sight or effect.

Assuming you're talking about grafts, I don't believe there's any rule about having to "own" a chassis to work on it. The principle that grows the grafts just specifies a target of "a chassis".

Range is more interesting, and should be addressed. In general it's assumed you're within touching range of whatever you're working on over the duration of the preparation.


Noticed an error, both the Prime Mover and the Lode Bearer don't have heal as a class skill.

Thank you, will update for biollurgy.


Alright, what principle do you think altering how much friction/adhesion a substance has?

Oo, interesting! That's a material property, so I'd expect Alchemetry would be appropriate, but I'm not at all sure that it's worth a full principle in its own right. I think that might work best as an augmentation that you can apply with ALCH 101, or maybe Preternatural Fluids, since that one's a little sparse right now. The main problem with implementation is that friction isn't defined at all in the rules, which makes it very hard to write ways to modify it. Let me think about it!


Aside: I have now decided that the Skype Gramarie campaign I'm running will be set in our world, in the year 1517. The players are disgraced nobles (and one slave escaping from the Turk conquest of Egypt) who are leading the first Spanish expedition to the American Mainland. They will run into the Aztec Magitech empire. (While armed with magitech themselves. One of them is also a priest).

This is just too fantastic for words. :smallsmile:


I know that people have been requesting feats for this and that Kellus dislikes feat tax feats.
Solution
A mastery feat for each principle.

That's not a bad idea, and would give gramarists something to burn their bonus feats on. I'm still a little worried about the feat tax, since I have a feeling these would become the new "default" principles in peoples' minds, making everything vanilla underpowered by comparison. I don't think straight-up power-ups is the way to go for them, but instead orthogonal versatility. Things like:

Alchemetric Apprenticeship [Mastery]
You've completed a basic study into alchemetrics, and have a better grasp on the fundamentals of the field than some people ever achieve.
Requirements: ALCH 101, Knowledge (nature) 4 ranks
Benefit: You have a new option for an ALCH 101 modification. Add the following choice to your list of modifications that can be applied with the principle.
Friction: The friction coefficient of the target can be increased or decreased by a factor of 2. This means that depending on which version of this modification you prepare, the body requires either twice or much or half as much effort to move. Any bull rush or other push or pull on the object has the distance the object moved multiplied or divided by 2 before resolution based on your selection. This change only applies if a surface would normally resist the movement of the body.

Something like that, anyway, where you don't just get a simple power-up but a small new use of the principle entirely. I do really like the idea of the mastery feats, though! Food for thought!


you know, i only just realized that all the quotes for this class are from Xkcd

They're not; they are, in order, Carl Sagan, thermodynamics, a song I like, John Gillespie Magee, War Games, xkcd, André Gide, and David Eddings.


Hey Kellus, for YGGD 212 it says that you have to pick one property to incur inside the space.

Could we then treat it again with YGGD 212 to get both properties?

Yes! In fact, that's the only way to apply a gravity and magnetic flux trait at the same time.


Quick question, what would happen to the eldritch blast damage if you gestalted this with Warlock? Do the two stack or overlap?

Again, I'm not an expert on gestalt, but I believe that the faster rate of accruement of the same class feature is the one you use.


Can a lightningleap engine with 100 epr make 10 jumps per round, or only one?

Activation and steering of an engine is a standard action, but with enough puissance, yes, it can make multiple leaps per round.


How do you resolve bull rush attempts against objects? I'm thinking about magnetic polar arcane fluxes, I would assume it would be like repel metal or stone effect but I'm not sure.

Objects gain a size bonus to their bull rush 'resistance' essentially, as well as a bonus for being particularly stable (since they're, you know, inanimate). They don't make any kind of opposed Strength check, since they don't have a Strength score. So the difficulty to push them would be 10 + size modifier + 4. Looking at the principle now, I need to put in a note about the effective size category of the flux for this purpose; I'll also clear it up a little for future askers.

Anyway, great questions people! I need to go lie down now as my head feels like splitting open, but prestige class in a few hours! :smallwink:

[Silva Stormrage]

Activation and steering of an engine is a standard action, but with enough puissance, yes, it can make multiple leaps per round.



What if you had multiple people manning the engine?

[Omnicrat]

That's not a bad idea, and would give gramarists something to burn their bonus feats on. I'm still a little worried about the feat tax, since I have a feeling these would become the new "default" principles in peoples' minds, making everything vanilla underpowered by comparison. I don't think straight-up power-ups is the way to go for them, but instead orthogonal versatility. Things like:

Alchemetric Apprenticeship [Mastery]
You've completed a basic study into alchemetrics, and have a better grasp on the fundamentals of the field than some people ever achieve.
Requirements: ALCH 101, Knowledge (nature) 4 ranks
Benefit: You have a new option for an ALCH 101 modification. Add the following choice to your list of modifications that can be applied with the principle.
Friction: The friction coefficient of the target can be increased or decreased by a factor of 2. This means that depending on which version of this modification you prepare, the body requires either twice or much or half as much effort to move. Any bull rush or other push or pull on the object has the distance the object moved multiplied or divided by 2 before resolution based on your selection. This change only applies if a surface would normally resist the movement of the body.

Something like that, anyway, where you don't just get a simple power-up but a small new use of the principle entirely. I do really like the idea of the mastery feats, though! Food for thought!

Kellus, maybe it's just me, but that seems a lot more feat taxy than Mastery feats... I mean, this can basically double push of ground vehicles


Activation and steering of an engine is a standard action, but with enough puissance, yes, it can make multiple leaps per round.

So, my inter-city mass instant transit system will work? Excellent! :smallbiggrin:

[Omnicrat]

What if you had multiple people manning the engine?

I figured an intelligent heuristic circuit could just do it. Even a contingent one maybe...

[Amechra]

You know, there actually is a good model of friction in the rules...

You know, Grease? Just add a little bit of somethin', and it should work.

[Kellus]

You know, there actually is a good model of friction in the rules...

You know, Grease? Just add a little bit of somethin', and it should work.

I thought about it, but there's not really a lot of mechanical overlap. Grease is essentially just an ongoing area-based SoS, whatever the SFX are. It represents a frictionless area, but there's nothing to play with there to represent having degrees of greater or lesser friction. You just cast it, and everyone in the area starts falling down. It's not a physics implementation, it's slapstick.

I do really like the idea, although I agree, Omnicrat, that that particular feat is not a good way to implement it. I mostly jotted it out to show what I meant by 'extra capability' feats instead of 'number boost' feats. And that just goes to show why such narrowly specific feats with a tiny niche audience that will always want them is such a bad idea, just like the binder feats from Tome of Magic that every binder ever takes, just like Natural Spell that every druid ever takes, just like Font of Inspiration, and so on. It's well-trod ground, and I don't really like the model.

I'll think about it, I'm sure I can come up with something for feats that are appealing but not necessary.


What if you had multiple people manning the engine?

Yes! If you can get around that problem, whether with multiple operators, programming, or an EI running the show, you can have really really fast lightning jumps with it! :smallsmile:

[Quester]

Does a Gramarist have any special control over a chassis he makes? I had always assumed so but can't find any text to support it. I guess you could teach it tricks with handle animal.

Also I'm really curious as to what happens if two red filter boxes with different internal temperatures try to go through each other.

I can't believe I haven't said it yet, but this is the best piece of home brew I've ever seen.

[Omnicrat]

I can't believe I haven't said it yet, but this is the best piece of home brew I've ever seen.

This is closer to a whole new game than a homebrew. Gramarie changes everything.

[Kellus]

Does a Gramarist have any special control over a chassis he makes? I had always assumed so but can't find any text to support it. I guess you could teach it tricks with handle animal.

Nope, not by default. Although you could certainly teach it tricks (although note that it's an Aberration) or instill instincts in it like "follow my directions".


Also I'm really curious as to what happens if two red filter boxes with different internal temperatures try to go through each other.

Oh, I'm sorry, I missed the question when it was asked earlier. :smalleek:

It's a good question, and I'm tempted to avoid confusion to just put in a blanket rule that filters of the same colour interact with each other as solid. I can't think of any situations where that would be an issue, and a couple, such as this or the gas filter, where it would solve some headscratchers like this. Thank you for bringing it to my attention!


I can't believe I haven't said it yet, but this is the best piece of home brew I've ever seen.

Thank you, I'm glad you like it! :smallredface:

Anyway, for anyone interested, the graughtsman is now up! :smallsmile:

[jojolagger]

It's a good question, and I'm tempted to avoid confusion to just put in a blanket rule that filters of the same colour interact with each other as solid. I can't think of any situations where that would be an issue, and a couple, such as this or the gas filter, where it would solve some headscratchers like this. Thank you for bringing it to my attention!
When two boxes overlap, it could result in the space between both having 2 sets of temperatures at once. However, for those with the same temperature, the same inside would still only have one temperature, and not be weird.
Thus, I suggest that barriers of the same color with different settings count as solid to each other. So then, two red boxes containing equal temperatures can pass through each other, but red boxes with different temperatures collide.

[Quester]

And here I thought no prestige class could be as cool the Contractor.

Does Gramaric Graft allow non-specialists to prepare specialist principles and ignore requisite principles known?

It's funny I was just thinking one of these prestige classes would require magic ability, though I suspected it would be the Arcanitect (or which ever prestige class based on arcanodynamics).



Nope, not by default. Although you could certainly teach it tricks (although note that it's an Aberration) or instill instincts in it like "follow my directions".


Unless I'm mistaken a chassis that isn't sentient would be unable to understand you, so even if instinctively driven to follow your orders it wouldn't gain the ability to speak common. Oh well, a gramarist makes decent money and can afford to hire an animal trainer.

Also if you turn an arcanodynamic transformer into to biostructure would it still act as a transformer, what about turning into a chassis?

Please say yes, because then I can make and army of cattle who shoot fire balls when I zap them.

[Kellus]

And here I thought no prestige class could be as cool the Contractor.

Does Gramaric Graft allow non-specialists to prepare specialist principles and ignore requisite principles known?

Yes! I updated the text to be more clear on that point.


It's funny I was just thinking one of these prestige classes would require magic ability, though I suspected it would be the Arcanitect (or which ever prestige class based on arcanodynamics).

All it really requires is a caster level to take an item creation feat, which the gramarist technically has from his eldritch blast.


Unless I'm mistaken a chassis that isn't sentient would be unable to understand you, so even if instinctively driven to follow your orders it wouldn't gain the ability to speak common. Oh well, a gramarist makes decent money and can afford to hire an animal trainer.

True! I suppose you could give it an incredibly complicated set of instructions to follow specific commands and stuff, but it's probably easier to make it sentient and just give it commands to be perfectly obedient.


Also if you turn an arcanodynamic transformer into to biostructure would it still act as a transformer, what about turning into a chassis?

Please say yes, because then I can make and army of cattle who shoot fire balls when I zap them.

Yes! You can even turn them into the transformer after they're a chassis, since they still count as an object of their previous material! Also, you gave me an excellent idea for a new discovery for the graughtsman, genetic gramarie. Check it out! :smallsmile:

EDIT


When two boxes overlap, it could result in the space between both having 2 sets of temperatures at once. However, for those with the same temperature, the same inside would still only have one temperature, and not be weird.
Thus, I suggest that barriers of the same color with different settings count as solid to each other. So then, two red boxes containing equal temperatures can pass through each other, but red boxes with different temperatures collide.

This is a good idea, but I think it might be a little too complex. It could also lead to some weirdness if you had two partially-overlapping boxes, and one of them started hearing up inside while the other didn't.

[Eldan]

Anyway, for anyone interested, the graughtsman is now up! :smallsmile:

Want. So much.

You do realize you just gave me most of the tools to recreate Neon Genesis Evangelion in this system?

Have you considered the Living Construct subtype for your Biomech suits?

[jseah]

True! I suppose you could give it an incredibly complicated set of instructions to follow specific commands and stuff, but it's probably easier to make it sentient and just give it commands to be perfectly obedient.
I don't actually see any restriction on how fast a circuit "thinks". A bunch of chained logical decisions can effectively make a CPU instruction set (you only need goto, add and subtract for Turing completeness IIRC; although bitshift left/right and other things would simplify programming greatly), followed very shortly by assembly language powered by punch cards read via Unorthodox Trigger.

EDIT: currently thinking on a gramarie powered rocket/jet engine/scramjet thingy

[Necroticplague]

It seems to me that the black filter seems a bit cross-school. You can get an almost identical effect with a static, ablative illusion that targets all the senses. Also, why the switching between SI and customary measurements? The distances are in empirical units (inches, feet,miles), while the temperatures are given in metric (Celsius).

Also, can anyone think of a way to cool something down so you can actually use mercury outputs? Once you have one, you can use it to keep the area cold enough to make more, but the trouble is getting the first one. The only thing I can think would be to get liquid mercury, use BIOY101 to turn it into solid biomass, then turn it into an output. Actually, I think BIOY101 requires solid planetary metal, so not even that works. Maybe using Preternatural Fluids to increase the heat capacity to that a small change in temperature causes it to freeze, then making it into an output so it can maintain its cold temperature (or maybe just ramp down the heat capacity so that it doesn't change temperature quickly and stays solid).

Come to think of it, outside of Preternatural Fluids, their is on odd desire to stick with manipulating solids.

[Morcleon]

It seems to me that the black filter seems a bit cross-school. You can get an almost identical effect with a static, ablative illusion that targets all the senses. Also, why the switching between SI and customary measurements? The distances are in empirical units (inches, feet,miles), while the temperatures are given in metric (Celsius).

Also, can anyone think of a way to cool something down so you can actually use mercury outputs? Once you have one, you can use it to keep the area cold enough to make more, but the trouble is getting the first one. The only thing I can think would be to get liquid mercury, use BIOY101 to turn it into solid biomass, then turn it into an output. Actually, I think BIOY101 requires solid planetary metal, so not even that works. Maybe using Preternatural Fluids to increase the heat capacity to that a small change in temperature causes it to freeze, then making it into an output so it can maintain its cold temperature (or maybe just ramp down the heat capacity so that it doesn't change temperature quickly and stays solid).

Come to think of it, outside of Preternatural Fluids, their is on odd desire to stick with manipulating solids.

Just freeze it first, then place a bunch of red filters around it to stop heat getting in.

[Kellus]

It seems to me that the black filter seems a bit cross-school.

A lot of the principles are partially cross-school in that they use some of the same terminology and references as other schools. That's necessary for any system to stand as a whole, so that the pieces fit together properly. Ablative illusions and Black filters are similar in what they do, but also totally different. An ablative illusion actually removes a sensory output, making things invisible or inaudible or unsmellable or really really bland to eat. A Black filter is like a black curtain that you just can't see or hear anything through it no matter what. You know it's there, but there's still no getting through it with your senses. :smallsmile:


Also, why the switching between SI and customary measurements? The distances are in empirical units (inches, feet,miles), while the temperatures are given in metric (Celsius).

I don't like this, but the game itself has an unfortunate habit of using imperial measurement for pretty much everything. 5ft. squares, hit points per inch, and so on. Everything is measured in feet. While I would be happier if I could use metric, it would just make everything way more confusing if you had to convert it all back to imperial to see what it actually does in the context of the rules.

The only exception, as you say, is temperature, because the Fahrenheit scale is just really, really dumb.


Come to think of it, outside of Preternatural Fluids, their is on odd desire to stick with manipulating solids.

Again, this is mostly because the game doesn't really have rules for interacting with liquids or gases in any way. There's lots of rules for interacting with solids, so that's what most of gramarie is all about: building solid things, moving around solid things, and so on. Preternatural Fluids is actually pretty interesting, since it sort of blurs the line between fluids and regular gramarie.


Have you considered the Living Construct subtype for your Biomech suits?

Thought about it (actually, I thought about it for biostructure itself) and it's not worth it. It already has the biostructure creature/object traits that go into a fair amount of detail about what it does and doesn't count as as far as effects go. The LC subtype was mostly just a hotfix to try to make a construct playable race, and isn't really appropriate for what BIOY is doing.

Glad you like the class, though! :smallsmile:


I don't actually see any restriction on how fast a circuit "thinks". A bunch of chained logical decisions can effectively make a CPU instruction set (you only need goto, add and subtract for Turing completeness IIRC; although bitshift left/right and other things would simplify programming greatly), followed very shortly by assembly language powered by punch cards read via Unorthodox Trigger.

I'm... hesitant to put in too many restrictions on processing power, but saying anything is "unlimited" is a really bad idea. I think I'll keep it simple, and say that an EI can make 100 logical decisions per round.

[Nanoblack]

I hope you're happy with yourself. You've just made the below picture possible and have given me the divine insight necessary to bring that glory to fruition.

http://i46.tinypic.com/34gsdb6.jpg

Biostructure conversion facility and its massive guardian chassis. Giant tractor beam in the center for mass abduction... I think I just might be in the midst of creating the reapers from Mass Effect.

EDIT: Is biostructure edible? I'd like to see if it would be possible to keep my chassis fed with a diet of biostructure.

[jseah]

A Black filter is like a black curtain that you just can't see or hear anything through it no matter what. You know it's there, but there's still no getting through it with your senses. :smallsmile:
What is considered a "sense"? Is a laser rangefinder a sense?

Does a black filter prevent say... searing light as a spell? How about a glowing rock (daylight) vs vampires/drow with a filter in-between?


Jet engine has at least two designs now (turbofan and scramjet), it is rather complicated so I need to draw some diagrams. Will do them later.
A convertible that can swap from turbofan to ramjet to scramjet as the aircraft goes supersonic then hypersonic will be nice to have but I haven't thought of a way yet. The nozzle design for turbofan (de Laval nozzle) and scramjet (aerospike) is just too different.
Power source in the form of phlogiston acceptable for sub-hypersonic speeds, needs proper fuel for scramjet operation. (temperatures are ridiculously high in a scramjet)
Afterburners in the form of Ice (phlogiston has a speed limit as temperatures will only go up) optional, and very inefficient.

One would think you could trap a piece of metal in between two yellow filters with no extra volume would then become a poor man's wall of force. Even if you hit the metal with high velocity, the metal can't get out, can't bend, can't dent. The entire filter itself will experience a slight increase in pressure, but as long as you don't excess the weight limit (spread out all over the filter area, which means ALOT), the filters will contain the hit and it just all comes out as heat and sound.
With additional preparations, you can make the metal wall increasingly hard to break.

I am planning to use this as engine lining (with red filters to block heat)... =D Either that or shell out the cash for riverine.
Orange filters aren't going to work since a speed that wouldn't break the filter is a speed you'd be better off using Polarcane Geometry to obtain. (and this engine is clearly for speed junkies so you'ld be using Polarcane Geometry anyway, gravity AND magnetic; and then go even faster with this)

[Kellus]

I hope you're happy with yourself. You've just made the below picture possible and have given me the divine insight necessary to bring that glory to fruition.

http://i46.tinypic.com/34gsdb6.jpg

Biostructure conversion facility and its massive guardian chassis. Giant tractor beam in the center for mass abduction... I think I just might be in the midst of creating the reapers from Mass Effect.

Okay, now that would be impressive. :smallsmile:


EDIT: Is biostructure edible? I'd like to see if it would be possible to keep my chassis fed with a diet of biostructure.

Yes, it's a creature, so it could certainly be used for sustenance.


What is considered a "sense"? Is a laser rangefinder a sense?

Does a black filter prevent say... searing light as a spell? How about a glowing rock (daylight) vs vampires/drow with a filter in-between?

Clever girl...

Yes, any means of gaining information about the other side of the filter fails. The laser rangefinder doesn't go through. I would even go so far as to say that all light and sound fails to penetrate it, so yes, you can block searing light and daylight with it. Someone earlier I think was using Black filters to shape the cone of sound on a sonic cannon.


Jet engine has at least two designs now (turbofan and scramjet), it is rather complicated so I need to draw some diagrams. Will do them later.
A convertible that can swap from turbofan to ramjet to scramjet as the aircraft goes supersonic then hypersonic will be nice to have but I haven't thought of a way yet. The nozzle design for turbofan (de Laval nozzle) and scramjet (aerospike) is just too different.
Power source in the form of phlogiston acceptable for sub-hypersonic speeds, needs proper fuel for scramjet operation. (temperatures are ridiculously high in a scramjet)
Afterburners in the form of Ice (phlogiston has a speed limit as temperatures will only go up) optional, and very inefficient.

As a pilot I absolutely adore this. Can't wait to see your diagrams! :smallsmile:


One would think you could trap a piece of metal in between two yellow filters with no extra volume would then become a poor man's wall of force. Even if you hit the metal with high velocity, the metal can't get out, can't bend, can't dent. The entire filter itself will experience a slight increase in pressure, but as long as you don't excess the weight limit (spread out all over the filter area, which means ALOT), the filters will contain the hit and it just all comes out as heat and sound.
With additional preparations, you can make the metal wall increasingly hard to break.

This is a very clever way to make an unbreakable sheet of metal! The only limit to it does seem to be the weight restriction on the filters themselves... And of course it's also vulnerable to things like acid or alkahest that would just chew through it. But that's a brilliant way to spread out the force from a kinetic impact or support massive loads without deformation.

[Omnicrat]

What is considered a "sense"? Is a laser rangefinder a sense?

Does a black filter prevent say... searing light as a spell? How about a glowing rock (daylight) vs vampires/drow with a filter in-between?

Yes to all of that. In fact, those things are pretty much the point.


A convertible that can swap from turbofan to ramjet to scramjet as the aircraft goes supersonic then hypersonic will be nice to have but I haven't thought of a way yet. The nozzle design for turbofan (de Laval nozzle) and scramjet (aerospike) is just too different.

Semispaces. The answer is always semispaces.


Power source in the form of phlogiston acceptable for sub-hypersonic speeds, needs proper fuel for scramjet operation. (temperatures are ridiculously high in a scramjet).

Just use red filters to contain the heat and keep using it as fuel.


One would think you could trap a piece of metal in between two yellow filters with no extra volume would then become a poor man's wall of force. Even if you hit the metal with high velocity, the metal can't get out, can't bend, can't dent. The entire filter itself will experience a slight increase in pressure, but as long as you don't excess the weight limit (spread out all over the filter area, which means ALOT), the filters will contain the hit and it just all comes out as heat and sound.
With additional preparations, you can make the metal wall increasingly hard to break.

1) Most projectiles are metal or stone anyway, so this is a bit redundant.
2) If you layered it with a few red/yellow layers, you could make the the metal molten (it would take a LONG time, but 100 ballistic engines firing wood chips could do it) or start with it molten with at least one solid layer in the back. That way, even if they break your front layers of filters, they are flooded with glowing-hot molten metal! :smallbiggrin:
3) Is it even possible to break through the metal under these conditions? No matter how damaged it is, as you said, it has no where to go. Even the Molten layers would still be as dense as the solid ones.

[Omnicrat]

This is a very clever way to make an unbreakable sheet of metal! The only limit to it does seem to be the weight restriction on the filters themselves... And of course it's also vulnerable to things like acid or alkahest that would just chew through it. But that's a brilliant way to spread out the force from a kinetic impact or support massive loads without deformation.

How does the weight restriction work? If I have 100 1x1 yellow filters, does it support 100 times more than a single 10x10 filter?

[Quester]

I don't actually see any restriction on how fast a circuit "thinks". A bunch of chained logical decisions can effectively make a CPU instruction set (you only need goto, add and subtract for Turing completeness IIRC; although bitshift left/right and other things would simplify programming greatly), followed very shortly by assembly language powered by punch cards read via Unorthodox Trigger.



I'm... hesitant to put in too many restrictions on processing power, but saying anything is "unlimited" is a really bad idea. I think I'll keep it simple, and say that an EI can make 100 logical decisions per round.


I would of thought a chassis's ability to process information would be controlled by its wisdom and intelligence score.

Also to make a filter cube you would have to prepare the principle 6 times, seeing the principle can only be used to make 2d shapes, right?

I just realized how useful the ability to convert gasses could potentially be. Just of the top of my head you could make an underwater structure and fill it with air by vaporizing surrounding water.

Would a closed cube of filters count as a container for going through filters?

[Omnicrat]

Can two gramarists work on HEUR 302 or gramarie grafts, one person prepairing 302 or making the graft while the other prepares the principle to be reproduced?

[EdroGrimshell]

Nother interesting question, could you have a chassis that eats organic materials and uses everything but carbon, producing diamonds as waste?

[Omnicrat]

Nother interesting question, could you have a chassis that eats organic materials and uses everything but carbon, producing diamonds as waste?

Cheapest resurrection spells ever.

[Quester]

Nother interesting question, could you have a chassis that eats organic materials and uses everything but carbon, producing diamonds as waste?



Now that it has true life, it also requires a normal diet, including water to drink and food to eat.


An interesting idea but I don't think not processing carbon is a normal diet, and even if you could you wouldn't get diamond with out tremendous pressure and heat, so you would only get raw carbon.


Can two gramarists work on HEUR 302 or gramarie grafts, one person prepairing 302 or making the graft while the other prepares the principle to be reproduced?



As part of this principle you must also prepare a principle which has an immediate effect such as an alchemetric transformation or a kaleidomantic filter


It does specify that you (the person preparing the principle) prepare the auxiliary principle as part of HEUR 302, so by that interpretation no.

Some one may have already asked, but could you give us the weight per cubic feet of non-planetary substances, like wood, crystal, ice and stone?

[Necroticplague]

An interesting idea but I don't think not processing carbon is a normal diet, and even if you could you wouldn't get diamond with out tremendous pressure and heat, so you would only get raw carbon.

This gives me an idea for a diamond generator: A red filter box inside of a orange filter box. The gradually increasing to incredibly high temperature, combined with the fact that the air can't escape, would create massive amounts of pressure based off the high temperature. Hold a piece of charcoal in the generator using a something that isn't your hand, watch it slowly get compressed into a diamond. To make the heat go up faster, use phlogistinate.

[Amechra]

Out of curiosity, what would a Grammarie-using world use as currency once the general tech level hits Magisterial levels?

I'm going to be playing in a (NSFW) campaign where there is a magical byproduct for... naughty things, which essentially is currency (with fascinating sociopolitical consequences.) Since the byproduct breaks down quickly even if not used, it works wonders as a form of income and (short term) money.

So, in other words, a Magisterial-level world would have to figure out some other currency. Perhaps Platinum based? Or maybe it is based off of how many Ebbs you generate in your home generator, which you can then send to your friends in Red-cell batteries?

Ooh, ooh, maybe you can charge a dull grey Ioun stone with a ebbs, and have that be the currency; a Dull Grey Ioun Stone costs 25gp, so you could have one store 25 virtual ebbs, and you could transfer those ebbs between DGISes with no loss, with each virtual ebb counting as 1 GP.

These ebbs can't be used to power a circuit (think of it as trying to power a computer with a lemon battery), and normal ebbs can only be added to the economy by creating new Dull Grey Ioun Stones; of course, the secret to making Dark Grey Ioun Stones is closely regulated by the government, and well, inflation starts to hurt once you have too many of them in the economy, which prevents governments from just making billions of them.

Now, here's what I think is neat about this: spells that cost a number of GP to cast? If you are in a Wood field that is putting out Ebbs, you can simply use an amount of ebbs equal to the material component cost to cast whatever spell you want.

Of course, for anything like, say, Raise Dead, you would cause nearby city lights to flicker out briefly, since you would need heinous amounts of energy (11 P/I generators, all hooked up to Wood outputs, all centered around a Wood Inputm which is itself connected to a Wood Output, would get you the necessary juice. It's gonna tingle, though.)

This variant would, of course, replace Eschew Material Components (if you can get an Ebb emitted to you, you get pretty much the same effect.)

[Qwertystop]

This gives me an idea for a diamond generator: A red filter box inside of a orange filter box. The gradually increasing to incredibly high temperature, combined with the fact that the air can't escape, would create massive amounts of pressure based off the high temperature. Hold a piece of charcoal in the generator using a something that isn't your hand, watch it slowly get compressed into a diamond. To make the heat go up faster, use phlogistinate.

Thing is, whatever you use to hold the diamond would also be completely destroyed. And once the pressure gets high enough, it would be really really hard to actually get the diamond into the box, so you couldn't set it up ahead of time.

[Necroticplague]

Thing is, whatever you use to hold the diamond would also be completely destroyed. And once the pressure gets high enough, it would be really really hard to actually get the diamond into the box, so you couldn't set it up ahead of time.
I actually thought of this, and (I think) I have a solution. Instead of being free-floating, the generator is inside a small piece of yggdrictecture, whose entrance is inside a small bag. So you don't need to hold the charcoal, just fling it into the bag, the turn it upside down and dump out the diamonds a few hours/days later. Do of course, be careful when opening the bag, after running long enough, the pressure will be so great that the diamond will end up being shot out of the bag like a bullet when opened (I'm assuming the space is just large enough to hold the generator so the coal/diamond can't go anywhere else until the bag's opened).

[Nanoblack]

I'm not as versed in how all of this science-y stuff works, but what's to stop the gas molecules from just escaping the red filers once they get so hot? Heat rises, right? So once they get so hot, they'd just get carried out of the filters by the momentum and immediately cooled back down.

[Necroticplague]

I'm not as versed in how all of this science-y stuff works, but what's to stop the gas molecules from just escaping the red filers once they get so hot? Heat rises, right? So once they get so hot, they'd just get carried out of the filters by the momentum and immediately cooled back down.

The orange filters, which trap loose gases.

[Amechra]

You... do realize that diamonds burn, right?

The only reason why they convert underground is a lack of oxygen; since you are using atmospheric gas, unless you can figure out a way to remove oxygen (hey, burning stuff inside the filter box would work for that, actually. Or a Chassis that breaths oxygen and emits another substance).

So, in other words, you are leaving out a step; vacate any oxygen inside that area, and then heat it up, dump a piece of carbon in, and then dump it out.

Say... how high a pressure do you think we can get? Do you think we could hit one NI high?

I kinda want to see if we could pull off a fusion reactor...

[General Patton]

Thing is, whatever you use to hold the diamond would also be completely destroyed. And once the pressure gets high enough, it would be really really hard to actually get the diamond into the box, so you couldn't set it up ahead of time.

EI controlling gravity flux. Antigrav stasis fields are the solution to all remote material handling problems.

[Qwertystop]

I actually thought of this, and (I think) I have a solution. Instead of being free-floating, the generator is inside a small piece of yggdrictecture, whose entrance is inside a small bag. So you don't need to hold the charcoal, just fling it into the bag, the turn it upside down and dump out the diamonds a few hours/days later. Do of course, be careful when opening the bag, after running long enough, the pressure will be so great that the diamond will end up being shot out of the bag like a bullet when opened (I'm assuming the space is just large enough to hold the generator so the coal/diamond can't go anywhere else until the bag's opened).

But once the pressure builds up, the diamond won't be able to go through the border into the generator. It doesn't matter whether it's in a semi-space or not.

[Necroticplague]

But once the pressure builds up, the diamond won't be able to go through the border into the generator. It doesn't matter whether it's in a semi-space or not.
hmmm....
Could a reverse-geometry flux be used to force the two together?

[jseah]

Semispaces. The answer is always semispaces.
Wait till you see the design. The two are so different that I don't see where to begin (they won't help since its a question of nozzle spread vs air pressure; which I can't see semi-spaces helping)


Just use red filters to contain the heat and keep using it as fuel.
I already assume my entire engine is red filtered to keep the heat down. The problem is that phlogiston is only 1000 degrees (or 2k if you use the super version). They're good for preheating (I can see the use of a pholgiston-lined intake) to increase air flow, but at mach 5, you need to keep adding heat.


1) Most projectiles are metal or stone anyway, so this is a bit redundant.
2) If you layered it with a few red/yellow layers, you could make the the metal molten (it would take a LONG time, but 100 ballistic engines firing wood chips could do it) or start with it molten with at least one solid layer in the back. That way, even if they break your front layers of filters, they are flooded with glowing-hot molten metal! :smallbiggrin:
3) Is it even possible to break through the metal under these conditions? No matter how damaged it is, as you said, it has no where to go. Even the Molten layers would still be as dense as the solid ones.
I wasn't actually intending them as armour plating. I needed a material that would withstand large constant forces and not deform. We can do it in RL with some expensive special materials, but D&D metallurgy kinda sucks.
And of course, applying gramarie to the problem is a plus since you know, that's what this thread is about.

I could always use magic (wall of force comes to mind), but what's the fun in that? I could build a perfectly good cee-fractional reactionless drive using magic items and some questionable tricks with ring gates, but that's not the point. =D

[Morcleon]

Could you please move Handle Animal in front of Heal? The lack of alphabetical order annoys me every time I try to copy down the list. :smalltongue:

[Omnicrat]

Wait till you see the design. The two are so different that I don't see where to begin (they won't help since its a question of nozzle spread vs air pressure; which I can't see semi-spaces helping)

Have both noses in different semispaces that you can swap on the fly with a mechanism. You'll probably need something alot better than that at such high speeds, but still its a start.



I already assume my entire engine is red filtered to keep the heat down. The problem is that phlogiston is only 1000 degrees (or 2k if you use the super version). They're good for preheating (I can see the use of a pholgiston-lined intake) to increase air flow, but at mach 5, you need to keep adding heat.

Hm... Capture the heat of the sun somehow?


I wasn't actually intending them as armour plating.

Regardless of intent, there is always another application. Dynamite comes to mind.[/QUOTE]

[jseah]

Have both noses in different semispaces that you can swap on the fly with a mechanism. You'll probably need something alot better than that at such high speeds, but still its a start.

Well, design for Turbojet with basic calculations. I skimped out on calculating the flow but it's late and I'm getting lazy.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh47/jon_seah/GramarieTurbojet.png

This nozzle is basically a funny shaped tube that you stick under a wing or build an aircraft around.

The aerospike has this huge thing right down the middle. And if it goes up to scramjet designs, the huge thing is actually the aircraft body and the engine is built around the aircraft instead of the other way around.


Hm... Capture the heat of the sun somehow?
You want to build a Sunmetal powered version of the Orion drive? Go ahead, be my guest.

I'll... be... right... over... here...
ooo, I hear holidays in Milawee, that nice island on the other side of the world, is all the rage nowadays. Well, cya, and don't kill yourself with that thing.
caster who has teleport wanted urgently! oh gods, let me leave before he does a test fire...

[General Patton]

Oh Celestia, we've got legit engineering up in here. This man is now the patron-saint of magitek.

[jseah]

You're likely to find that actual thrust is going to be alot lower though. The nozzle will be underexpanded at higher altitudes because ambient pressure is lower, but it's more stable this way.

Also, you might find that you need to regulate the airflow with fins or even a proper turbine after the gust of wind section. Someone with actual aerospace engineering can do that. I'm just a guy with a calculator and wikipedia.

...

Come to think of it, aircraft in this world are going to be rather different. That Eldrikinetic airship picture has got to be practically the worst way you could design an airship. And no, eldrikinetic engines are just plain bad.

*grin* I'll procrastinate on the aerospike for now, designing an airship first.

[Kellus]

The dreamason (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13732930#post13732930) is now up! I hope you are not getting tired of prestige classes because I am not getting tired of prestige classes!

Awesome comments, I'll reply to them in the next post. :smallsmile:

[Omnicrat]

You make alchemetrists (my good healer) deal with devils and heurists (my evil tyrant) hippies.

If I didn't know better, I'd say you were doing this just to mess with me...

edit: Upon further inspection, it is clear that the heurist prestige class works really well for a tyrant.

[Qwertystop]

It says the dream reserve stores ebbs, some of the dreamcatchers produce ebbs, some of them produce power points, and Dreamaster takes power points from the dream reserve? But there's no listed way for the ebbs in the Dream Reserve to be used for anything, and nothing that the circuit can do with the power points until you get Dreamaster?

Also, it seems pretty evil to me. You make areas of space that just do bad things to anyone in them.

[Kellus]

How does the weight restriction work? If I have 100 1x1 yellow filters, does it support 100 times more than a single 10x10 filter?

Not quite, if they're layered on top of each other, as soon as the first filter collapses, all the weight would be applied to the next one and so on. You can't 'reinforce' a filter, because it's intangible to everything else in existence.


I would of thought a chassis's ability to process information would be controlled by its wisdom and intelligence score.

Nope! Turns out it's a flat number to make theorycrafting easy. Who knew? :smallsmile:


Also to make a filter cube you would have to prepare the principle 6 times, seeing the principle can only be used to make 2d shapes, right?

Yes!


I just realized how useful the ability to convert gasses could potentially be. Just of the top of my head you could make an underwater structure and fill it with air by vaporizing surrounding water.

Eeheehee Atlantis will be complete before I am through


Would a closed cube of filters count as a container for going through filters?

Sure, I guess.


Nother interesting question, could you have a chassis that eats organic materials and uses everything but carbon, producing diamonds as waste?

Interesting, We're shooting for "implausible yet believable", not "excrete DIAMONDS". Nice try, though! :smalltongue:


Out of curiosity, what would a Grammarie-using world use as currency once the general tech level hits Magisterial levels?

Completely setting-dependent, but I could see some really interesting scenarios. Your ioun stone idea is pretty awesome, or you could have materials that aren't buildable by gramarie, like crystal. I do like the material component transparency there, though, that would make the God-machine much easier to pull off, I think. :smallamused:

When I get around to writing up some magic items that interact with gramarie (ie god knows when) I'll make sure to stat up the DGIS!


Could you please move Handle Animal in front of Heal? The lack of alphabetical order annoys me every time I try to copy down the list.

Sure, I'm sorry. In my defense, the alphabet is complicated! :smallfrown:


Well, design for Turbojet with basic calculations. I skimped out on calculating the flow but it's late and I'm getting lazy.

Oh wow, that's really excellent! I especially love the way you use gusts of wind to get the air moving into it in the first place, that's just brilliant. It's awesome the way you use gramarie to replace real-world technologies needed for the engine. So cool! Now I'm imagining a tribe of fighter pilot halflings out to even the odds against the hill giants. :smallbiggrin:


Some one may have already asked, but could you give us the weight per cubic feet of non-planetary substances, like wood, crystal, ice and stone?

For most of those, sure. Wood is difficult though, because it's so wildly inconsistent based on grain and moisture content. I'll give it a shot, though!

EDIT


It says the dream reserve stores ebbs, some of the dreamcatchers produce ebbs, some of them produce power points, and Dreamaster takes power points from the dream reserve? But there's no listed way for the ebbs in the Dream Reserve to be used for anything, and nothing that the circuit can do with the power points until you get Dreamaster?

You can use the dream reserve to power things in the circuit just like a battery of orichalcum or the output from a transformer. So it can be fueled to activate an engine, prepare a principle, power a transformer, and so on.

[Silva Stormrage]

You make alchemetrists (my good healer) deal with devils and heurists (my evil tyrant) hippies.

If I didn't know better, I'd say you were doing this just to mess with me...

edit: Upon further inspection, it is clear that the heurist prestige class works really well for a tyrant.

Ya fueling their Magitek with sleeping creatures in a permanent nightmare seems pretty evil to me :smalltongue:

[General Patton]

Why do all of these Dreamcatchers have to be so evil? Only the Psionic one is remotely tolerable. At least with the paltry 10 ebbs a soul produces, you can get a Wish out of your Silver Output Transformers to bring them back, but still, needs more neutral options. What about something that can be powered by successful Concentration checks or Autohypnosis checks?

As described, it's not clear if EI's are susceptible to Mindfuel. Also, it would be kind of neat if ebbs gained from Dreamcatchers could be converted to XP for an EI.

[Kellus]

Why do all of these Dreamcatchers have to be so evil? Only the Psionic one is remotely tolerable. At least with the paltry 10 ebbs a soul produces, you can get a Wish out of your Silver Output Transformers to bring them back, but still, needs more neutral options. What about something that can be powered by successful Concentration checks or Autohypnosis checks?

Eh, energy needs to come from somewhere. People could still willingly sacrifice their bodies or power points or whatever to power the circuit, but the class is all about finding human energy sources. All of the sources are renewable, so a society could potentially power itself on its own populace.

http://www.geekosystem.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/071610battery.jpg


As described, it's not clear if EI's are susceptible to Mindfuel. Also, it would be kind of neat if ebbs gained from Dreamcatchers could be converted to XP for an EI.

Uh, technically yes, I guess. But I imagine that most of them would make themselves immune to the dreamcatcher, since they control the circuit. Still, that would be an awesome way to kill an EI, by hacking into the circuit and circumventing their immunity to the mindfueling. :smallsmile:

The XP idea is pretty cool, I think I'll update it in there!

[Omnicrat]

Not quite, if they're layered on top of each other, as soon as the first filter collapses, all the weight would be applied to the next one and so on. You can't 'reinforce' a filter, because it's intangible to everything else in existence.

No, I didn't mean stacked, I meant having one-hundred 1x1 filters taking the place of one 10x10 filter being able to hold 100 times the weight due to weight distribution.

Example: There is 10,000 pounds placed on one 10x10 filter, it tries to support all the weight and fails. There is 10,000 pounds placed on 100 1x1 filters, each one supporting 100 pounds, and it holds up.

This isn't exactly OP, as it requires 100 times the prep time, but I still think it should be addressed.

Also, the way it is written, we are all connected circuits can only talk to we are all connected circuits. Was that intentional?

[Quester]

The number of times you can manifest powers in a day is limited only by your power point reserve. You do not regain power points every day like most psionicists, but instead you can use your eldritch blast to steal the consciousness of other intelligent beings to fuel your psionics.

As a dreamason, you simply know your powers; they are ingrained in your mind. You do not need to prepare them (in the way that some spellcasters prepare their spells), though you must get a good night’s sleep each day to regain all your spent power points. The Difficulty Class for saving throws against your powers is 10 + the power’s level + your Intelligence modifier.


Is this a mistake or do you have to get a full nights sleep to refill your power point reserve with the eldritch blast?

Geeze, what happened, your prestige classes have gotten so much more evil, I love it. I can imagine a lawful good society just sentencing criminals to prolonged death sentences in dreamcatcher circuit.

[Kellus]

Is this a mistake or do you have to get a full nights sleep to refill your power point reserve with the eldritch blast?

Copy/paste mistake, sorry about that. I don't do much with psionics, so I used verbatim text from the SRD, and that slipped through. Thank you for the heads up!


Geeze, what happened, your prestige classes have gotten so much more evil, I love it. I can imagine a lawful good society just sentencing criminals to prolonged death sentences in dreamcatcher circuit.

Indeed! It should also be noted that mechanically, all a nightmare does is make you fatigued and stop you from regaining spells. You can explicitly program whatever dream you want, so you can feel free to construct a pleasant dream for your victims subjects, they'll just feel drained and tired when they wake up. :smallwink:


No, I didn't mean stacked, I meant having one-hundred 1x1 filters taking the place of one 10x10 filter being able to hold 100 times the weight due to weight distribution.

Example: There is 10,000 pounds placed on one 10x10 filter, it tries to support all the weight and fails. There is 10,000 pounds placed on 100 1x1 filters, each one supporting 100 pounds, and it holds up.

This isn't exactly OP, as it requires 100 times the prep time, but I still think it should be addressed.

That's just a distributed load, and is the same reason you can walk on a bed of nails. Totally okay, it spreads out the weight across the filters.


Also, the way it is written, we are all connected circuits can only talk to we are all connected circuits. Was that intentional?

Yes!

[Orderic]

Great. If we find a way to connect the dreams of those trapped in a Lucid Dreamcatcher, we can build the Matrix.

Edit: mabe an EI could control the dreams.

And someone mentioned trapping the heat of the sun. How about something even better: Directly siphoning heat from the sun. All we need is an yggdratectural portal placed inside the sun and several red filters, protecting it from the heat.
Side effects of siphoning power from the sun may including severe iradiation, death, complete devastation of the landscape and the urge to build a sun-powered doomsday device.

[jseah]

I kind of cheated with the turbojet design though. Gramarie tech might be able to build the materials and so forth, but there's no reason why they would even be able to design this engine at all without advanced mathematics and fluid dynamics theories that *we* used to design it.

The Aerospike one is even worse, its not obvious the aerospike would even work at all without doing the calculations. (It does work because we have test rockets that use it, but the reason for it working is not at all obvious)

....
Ahahaha. MUHAHAHA *choke* *cough* ahem.
Just had the most Interesting idea.

Sunmetal dissolved in Alkahest. 2% solution in water. With careful construction of the tank to prevent more than 1 cubic foot from gathering anywhere. (use a non-planetary metal for obvious reasons)

Significant ebbs generator (phlogiston generator x2), channels ebbs to exhaust nozzle. Spray Nuclear Fu-... 2% sunmetal into the exhaust nozzle and channel ebbs into it. Keep constant small flow of 2% sunmetal and ebbs...

You have a Nuclear Salt-water Rocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_salt-water_rocket)!

Depending on how sunmetal explodes, may or may not be workable. If the explosion follows line of effect (so it actually radiates all that heat instead of magically raising temperature without going through the intervening space), your exhaust nozzle made of riverine will be able to generate Massive thrust on very little fuel.
After all, its just like riding a continuous nuclear explosion into the sky.

Oh, you'll leave behind a crater that'll glow blue for the next couple of centuries but eh, screw the hippie elves, this thing'll get you to mars in four days flat.

[Quester]

Indeed! It should also be noted that mechanically, all a nightmare does is make you fatigued and stop you from regaining spells.




The nightmare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nightmare.htm) prevents restful sleep and causes 1d10 points of damage. The nightmare leaves the subject fatigued and unable to regain arcane spells for the next 24 hours.




You can explicitly program whatever dream you want, so you can feel free to construct a pleasant dream for your victims subjects, they'll just feel drained and tired when they wake up.


I love that, heck some people may consider that a fair trade, if you take requests its like putting people on a holodeck every night.

[Kellus]

Great. If we find a way to connect the dreams of those trapped in a Lucid Dreamcatcher, we can build the Matrix.

Edit: mabe an EI could control the dreams.

True. You can control the dreams of the creatures, so an EI could simultaneously manage the shared dream of pretty much as many sleeping creatures could fit into the circuit.


And someone mentioned trapping the heat of the sun. How about something even better: Directly siphoning heat from the sun. All we need is an yggdratectural portal placed inside the sun and several red filters, protecting it from the heat.
Side effects of siphoning power from the sun may including severe iradiation, death, complete devastation of the landscape and the urge to build a sun-powered doomsday device.

By default you can only connect a portal to a space you built or a location you already are. You can't just open one up 'wherever'. The lode-bearer has a discovery that lets you place one like with a teleport, but you would need a greater teleport effect to place one on the sun. Sorry!


Sunmetal dissolved in Alkahest. 2% solution in water. With careful construction of the tank to prevent more than 1 cubic foot from gathering anywhere. (use a non-planetary metal for obvious reasons)

Significant ebbs generator (phlogiston generator x2), channels ebbs to exhaust nozzle. Spray Nuclear Fu-... 2% sunmetal into the exhaust nozzle and channel ebbs into it. Keep constant small flow of 2% sunmetal and ebbs...

You have a Nuclear Salt-water Rocket!

Depending on how sunmetal explodes, may or may not be workable. If the explosion follows line of effect (so it actually radiates all that heat instead of magically raising temperature without going through the intervening space), your exhaust nozzle made of riverine will be able to generate Massive thrust on very little fuel.
After all, its just like riding a continuous nuclear explosion into the sky.

Oh, you'll leave behind a crater that'll glow blue for the next couple of centuries but eh, screw the hippie elves, this thing'll get you to mars in four days flat.

I like Mars and don't like elves, so I'm gonna go ahead and say that this is viable. Honestly, you had me at "exhaust nozzle made of riverine".


I love that, heck some people may consider that a fair trade, if you take requests its like putting people on a holodeck every night.

Pretty much, or more likely like some kind of eternal inescapable dream prison of despair. But yeah, a holodeck's good, too. :smalltongue:

You would probably need to heal most people between nightmares, but that's pretty doable with a silver transformer, which could be powered with a fraction of the puissance each nightmare generates (100 ebbs per person per nightmare).

Finishing up another prestige class, should have it up later today. :smallsmile:

[Orderic]

By default you can only connect a portal to a space you built or a location you already are. You can't just open one up 'wherever'. The lode-bearer has a discovery that lets you place one like with a teleport, but you would need a greater teleport effect to place one on the sun. Sorry!

I'm sure, we can build a spaceship, protected with red filters and powered by a planejumping engine. With that we jump near to the sun and launch the portal into it.

[Amechra]

Alright, new project: make a PrC that let's you ride around inside a construct chassis that's the same size as you.

You know, more like power armor than anything.

I mean, I'm already rewriting the Slaad Brooder to use Grammarie (basically, you can apply Preparations to your implanted Slaad, because they are the main chaotic representatives...)

[Volthawk]

Hmm, the Graughtsman doesn't seem to have a way of mimicking spells for crafting, which is a bit of a pain given the fact that they have a CL and Craft Reserve, but no way of providing the spell prereqs that magic items have.

Edit: Also, do natural weapon grafts count as accessories or tools? I mean, I could see tool since you actually have to attack with it for it to be used, but it's also not something you really activate, more something that's there and usable for attacks, so I'm not too sure...

[General Patton]

A way to use the Lucid Dreamcatcher for training simulations to grant XP would be kind of cool. Maybe 10 XP per hour so players can't exploit it, but low-level NPCs and Sentient Biollurgical Chassis could get some decent benefit after a while.

Commoner 1/Swordsage 1: I know kung-fu.
Awesome Bald Guy 20: Show me.

[Omnicrat]

A way to use the Lucid Dreamcatcher for training simulations to grant XP would be kind of cool. Maybe 10 XP per hour so players can't exploit it, but low-level NPCs and Sentient Biollurgical Chassis could get some decent benefit after a while.

Commoner 1/Swordsage 1: I know kung-fu.
Awesome Bald Guy 20: Show me.

The matrix system more lets you retrain past levels than get new ones. You would still advance in level by obtaining normal xp, but the operator gives you the ability to re-assign your feats, skills, and even classes at will.

Maybe as a full-round action...

[Quester]

The matrix system more lets you retrain past levels than get new ones. You would still advance in level by obtaining normal xp, but the operator gives you the ability to re-assign your feats, skills, and even classes at will.

Maybe as a full-round action...

Eh, that sounds a bit over-powered to just tack onto lucid dream, maybe add it as a discovery, probably one selected at 10th level, and tack on an xp cost, other wise its just to easy to abuse

[Omnicrat]

Eh, that sounds a bit over-powered to just tack onto lucid dream, maybe add it as a discovery, probably one selected at 10th level, and tack on an xp cost, other wise its just to easy to abuse

Oh, I wasn't saying that should be implemented, just that it was closer to how the matrix system worked. It is very OP for a D&D game.

[jseah]

Presenting the all new Da Bullet. A simple, lean aircraft frame that will fit small to medium purposes; and most importantly, cheap! Stop cursing those eldrikinetic engines and buy one today!

For surveying, non-teleport-safe emergency cargo, high speed leisure cruises, sightseeing trips and much more!

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh47/jon_seah/DaBullet.png

Lift Grid and Stabilizer details
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh47/jon_seah/GridandStabilizer.png

Should be able to break sound barrier, although you'll want to yellow-filter wrap the nose if you are aiming to do that. Turbojet is powerful enough and profile is small enough. Seriously, polarcane flux makes building an airship far far too easy.

Actually, it's not really an airship; airships don't zip around at mach 1-2. And it's not a plane coz it lacks wings. You don't need wings if you have antigravity.
This guy will zip around with an agility and maneuverability that will put modern day aircraft to shame, while carrying many many times the payload. It can hover, it can pitch and yaw on demand and it'll haul a couple of tons minimum (turbojet engines are not small).

The weight of a small boat, the speed of a supersonic plane, the agility of a helicopter. This baby can do it all.

Optional modifications (cost extra)
Pivoting engine mounts - Connectors for the turbojets can be a pivot, allowing the thrust to be directed anywhere for steeper, faster climbs and better maneuverability at the cost of being more fragile.

Heavy weight cargo lift (Why do you need to use this? Teleport network hello?) - Cargo deck can contain a polarcane flux that covers half the deck. Take VERY good care in weighing and stacking your cargo to keep the balance. Costs more and lower acceleration or need bigger engines.

Lightweight - Single engine design possible, just build a single deck around an engine and tada. No nose cone to doodle on (that's your air intake) and lift grid is more complicated, a heavy ring around the engine. Lighter, meaner, faster, cheaper; carries less weight.

Gravity Thrust - With some mathematics, misaligned polarcane fluxes and various niggly details, one can actually pivot the lift core of the stabilizers and the grid. Then the control node can be fully descended (all the core is inside the polarcane flux) and the gravity direction changed to be a sum of forward and upwards vectors. This will allow the weight of the core to contribute to thrust for MOAR speed. Complicated, involves math and logic systems, probably cost a bit more; adds some speed.

Auto-zeroing Lift Core - Core is mounted on yellow-filter-wrapped rails in the ceiling. With a few small gyroscopes, you can determine (by toggling and watching the 'scopes) whether the core is in front or behind the center of gravity. The core can then be moved to account for this. Rail-mounted means adjustment range only goes as far as the rails do (should be enough if your core is big enough for the ship), more cost and complications, grants a minor tolerance to bad balancing.

[Omnicrat]

Presenting the all new Da Bullet. A simple, lean aircraft frame that will fit small to medium purposes; and most importantly, cheap! Stop cursing those eldrikinetic engines and buy one today!

For surveying, non-teleport-safe emergency cargo, high speed leisure cruises, sightseeing trips and much more!

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh47/jon_seah/DaBullet.png

Lift Grid and Stabilizer details
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh47/jon_seah/GridandStabilizer.png

Should be able to break sound barrier, although you'll want to yellow-filter wrap the nose if you are aiming to do that. Turbojet is powerful enough and profile is small enough. Seriously, polarcane flux makes building an airship far far too easy.

Actually, it's not really an airship; airships don't zip around at mach 1-2. And it's not a plane coz it lacks wings. You don't need wings if you have antigravity.
This guy will zip around with an agility and maneuverability that will put modern day aircraft to shame, while carrying many many times the payload. It can hover, it can pitch and yaw on demand and it'll haul a couple of tons minimum (turbojet engines are not small).

The weight of a small boat, the speed of a supersonic plane, the agility of a helicopter. This baby can do it all.

Optional modifications (cost extra)
Pivoting engine mounts - Connectors for the turbojets can be a pivot, allowing the thrust to be directed anywhere for steeper, faster climbs and better maneuverability at the cost of being more fragile.
Heavy weight cargo lift (Why do you need to use this? Teleport network hello?) - Cargo deck can contain a polarcane flux that covers half the deck. Take VERY good care in weighing and stacking your cargo to keep the balance. Costs more and lower acceleration or need bigger engines.
Lightweight - Single engine design possible, just build a single deck around an engine and tada. No nose cone to doodle on (that's your air intake) and lift grid is more complicated, a heavy ring around the engine. Lighter, meaner, faster, cheaper; carries less weight.

The skype campaign came up with a system like this. Except our plan was to use semispaces, blocks on the roof, and internal counter-weights.

Also, gravity gives you a maximum of 70ft per round. So, unless I read something wrong, that’s the maximum speed a ship like this can get.

[jojolagger]

Pivoting engine mounts - Connectors for the turbojets can be a pivot, allowing the thrust to be directed anywhere for steeper, faster climbs and better maneuverability at the cost of being more fragile.

Kaylee, how would you feel about pulling a Crazy Ivan? :smallbiggrin:

[General Patton]

The skype campaign came up with a system like this. Except our plan was to use semispaces, blocks on the roof, and internal counter-weights.

Also, gravity gives you a maximum of 70ft per round. So, unless I read something wrong, that’s the maximum speed a ship like this can get.

What is that, terminal velocity? If you can find a way to have the entire craft's movement based off of the gravitational acceleration of a smaller object inside of the craft, then you can put that smaller object in a yellow filter vacuum to completely remove drag and terminal velocity. Yellow orange filter box constructed underwater, lift it out, voila, instant vacuum chamber.

[jseah]

The skype campaign came up with a system like this. Except our plan was to use semispaces, blocks on the roof, and internal counter-weights.

Also, gravity gives you a maximum of 70ft per round. So, unless I read something wrong, that’s the maximum speed a ship like this can get.
It's not gravity powered. Antigravity assist is only to negate weight and make it smaller (no pesky wings means not vulnerable to updrafts and all that complications that come with having giant surface areas to weight)

You see the turbojets (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13831646&postcount=448)? That was on page 15.

[Omnicrat]

What is that, terminal velocity? If you can find a way to have the entire craft's movement based off of the gravitational acceleration of a smaller object inside of the craft, then you can put that smaller object in a yellow filter vacuum to completely remove drag and terminal velocity. Yellow filter box constructed underwater, lift it out, voila, instant vacuum chamber.

I may be wrong, but I thought terminal velocity was based on gravitational force, not wind resistance.

Also, I think you mean orange filters, and high speed winds break orange filters, so that's out.

[Omnicrat]

It's not gravity powered. Antigravity assist is only to negate weight and make it smaller (no pesky wings means not vulnerable to updrafts and all that complications that come with having giant surface areas to weight)

You see the turbojets (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13831646&postcount=448)? That was on page 15.

Ah. I thought you were redacting the math beyond the current level of civilization. How are you explaining that in your world?

[jseah]

Ah. I thought you were redacting the math beyond the current level of civilization. How are you explaining that in your world?
Am not? >.> You could build a much simpler one (without the precision shaping) that is a couple of times less efficient with little math and just some handwaving. Basically a tube with a bell at the end.
No math version will probably not break sound barrier but it'll still go. And fast too. EDIT: without the pinching throat, you can't compress the air down to make it move at supersonic velocities, and the thrust becomes purely thermal, ie. a hot fan.


And if you want to, you can build a NSWR. That's a whole lot simpler. Although you'll be pushing a couple of million tons minimum for that one.

[Omnicrat]

Am not? >.> You could build a much simpler one (without the precision shaping) that is a couple of times less efficient with little math and just some handwaving. Basically a tube with a bell at the end.
No math version will probably not break sound barrier but it'll still go. And fast too.


And if you want to, you can build a NSWR. That's a whole lot simpler. Although you'll be pushing a couple of million tons minimum for that one.

I just thought of how a civilization would figure out how to build a turbojet.

Given the unique properties of red filters creating high pressure areas and vacuums, the dumbed down version you described would be obvious. From there, all you need is a great mathematician/scientist to be commissioned to figure out how to make it better. This would work best in greek-like cultures (since the greeks did this sort of thing irl) but could be part of any culture not actively opposed to the idea of advancing mathematics and sciences.

[General Patton]

I may be wrong, but I thought terminal velocity was based on gravitational force, not wind resistance.

Also, I think you mean orange filters, and high speed winds break orange filters, so that's out.

I did mean orange.

Gravitational force causes essentially constant acceleration regardless of your speed. Drag is proportional to the square of an object's velocity with respect to the fluid it is moving through. In Earth's atmosphere, your downward acceleration is actually 9.8 m/s^2 minus the effects of drag. Terminal velocity is where the drag exactly matches gravity. If you were already going faster than terminal velocity, then drag would be stronger than gravity and you'd start slowing down until you reached terminal. The whole point of parachutes is that they drastically increase your drag coefficient so that your terminal velocity becomes something nonlethal. So... yeah, that's why in space, or artificial vacuums, there is no such thing as an arbitrary top speed. As long as you can provide thrust, you can get faster, because you aren't being resisted by anything proportional to your speed.

If your orange filter vacuum chamber is inside your craft, then the hull is protecting the filters from the wind speeds.

[Omnicrat]

I did mean orange.

Gravitational force causes essentially constant acceleration regardless of your speed. Drag is proportional to the square of an object's velocity with respect to the fluid it is moving through. In Earth's atmosphere, your downward acceleration is actually 9.8 m/s^2 minus the effects of drag. Terminal velocity is where the drag exactly matches gravity. If you were already going faster than terminal velocity, then drag would be stronger than gravity and you'd start slowing down until you reached terminal. The whole point of parachutes is that they drastically increase your drag coefficient so that your terminal velocity becomes something nonlethal. So... yeah, that's why in space, or artificial vacuums, there is no such thing as an arbitrary top speed. As long as you can provide thrust, you can get faster, because you aren't being resisted by anything proportional to your speed.

If your orange filter vacuum chamber is inside your craft, then the hull is protecting the filters from the wind speeds.

It's been a while since terminal velocity came up in my daily life. My mistake.

If the vacuum filter is inside the craft, isn't it still subject to terminal velocity? The gravity-drive powering the ship is still attached to the ship, after all.

[General Patton]

It's been a while since terminal velocity came up in my daily life. My mistake.

If the vacuum filter is inside the craft, isn't it still subject to terminal velocity? The gravity-drive powering the ship is still attached to the ship, after all.

That's why you need to find a way to have the rest of the ship's motion be based on the motion of your vacuum chamber antigrav core. Perhaps the metal hull is sandwiched between yellow filters that are tethered to the core.

1. Small object freefalls without drag in direction of choice
2. Yellow filters move with object
3. Hull moves with filters
4. ???
5. Profit
6. Light speed (at least according to Newton's gravity equation, not sure what general relativity has to say about this)

[Omnicrat]

That's why you need to find a way to have the rest of the ship's motion be based on the motion of your vacuum chamber antigrav core. Perhaps the metal hull is sandwiched between yellow filters that are tethered to the core.

1. Small object freefalls without drag in direction of choice
2. Yellow filters move with object
3. Hull moves with filters
4. ???
5. Profit
6. Light speed (at least according to Newton's gravity equation, not sure what general relativity has to say about this)

Hm... the filters would eventually collapse from the increased weight of the metal pushing on them. Even if the hull is only one inch thick alchemetric mithril, and we have one inch by one inch yellow filters to increase the maximum weight able to be held, and it still breaks down as the speed of light is approached.

Sounds pretty dangerous, unless you want to put the thousands upon thousands of hours of labor into all those filters, and then it still breaks down at the highest possible speeds.

[Amechra]

Yeah, lightspeed ain't happening.

Seriously, you've got the problem of hitting NI mass, no matter what, so you are going to be crushed by the weight of your own hair.

So...

Why even bother with metal hulls? Last time I checked, a layered Red/Orange/Yellow/Violet hull would be far superior, and would have the added benefit of being massless.

And, if you want to add some fun... You can have a semi-space portal connect you with home, so you literally don't have to be there.

Because otherwise... how are you going to shield against relativistic effects? If I remember correctly, there aren't any fluxes that decrease mass, which are going to be what you would want...

The ideal spaceship would be a small ball of whatever, tethered to a layered Red/Yellow/Orange Barrier, which is itself used to cover over a subspace, which leads back to home base, where that side is covered by a violet hatch to stop idiots from walking through.

The small ball is shot at where-ever you need to go with a ballistic engine, and you would just have to wait.

And, oh, because no-one has mentioned it yet... open a subspace at the bottom of the ocean.

Connect it to one at a different point.

Best water gun?

[Omnicrat]

Amechra, one problem with your hull: Orange filters are broken by wind. Theoretically, you could make a heat vacuum, but it still takes a lot longer to be able to make that than a gravity ship.

I mean, max speed of 70 fps isn't that bad, and can be enhanced by simple engines.

[General Patton]

Hm... the filters would eventually collapse from the increased weight of the metal pushing on them. Even if the hull is only one inch thick alchemetric mithril, and we have one inch by one inch yellow filters to increase the maximum weight able to be held, and it still breaks down as the speed of light is approached.

Sounds pretty dangerous, unless you want to put the thousands upon thousands of hours of labor into all those filters, and then it still breaks down at the highest possible speeds.

Time to break out the big guns.

1. Build your ship on a demiplane
2. Wrap the outside of it in portals facing inwards
3. Build your vacuum chamber antigrav core on the material plane
4. Place portals on the material plane, surrounding the core, tethered to it, facing outwards, in the exact same shape as the portals covering your ship

The antigrav core moves around with ease while it and the portals act as something of a proxy by which the ship itself can interact with the material plane. You now have a ship that is stationary and virtually projects its presence onto another plane without actually being there. Much easier than designing an inertial dampener.

I originally came up with this concept while trying to draft up some ultimate gramary power armor that would have most of the benefits of teleoperation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleoperation)/telepresence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telepresence) by virtue of being able to shut down the portals to save the operator and armor at the cost of the mobile proxy reference point. Why go exploring in a dangerous place when you can be 5 feet away from every form of support imaginable and interact via portals? Never could get that to pan out though. Unlike a ship, the armor has to have parts of itself move relative to each other. Getting the output portals to mirror that is too hard.

[Omnicrat]

Time to break out the big guns.

1. Build your ship on a demiplane
2. Wrap the outside of it in portals facing inwards
3. Build your vacuum chamber antigrav core on the material plane
4. Place portals on the material plane, surrounding the core, tethered to it, facing outwards, in the exact same shape as the portals covering your ship

The antigrav core moves around with ease while it and the portals act as something of a proxy by which the ship itself can interact with the material plane. You now have a ship that is stationary and virtually projects its presence onto another plane without actually being there. Much easier than designing an inertial dampener.

I originally came up with this concept while trying to draft up some ultimate gramary power armor that would have most of the benefits of teleoperation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleoperation)/telepresence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telepresence) by virtue of being able to shut down the portals to save the operator and armor at the cost of the mobile proxy reference point. Why go exploring in a dangerous place when you can be 5 feet away from every form of support imaginable and interact via portals? Never could get that to pan out though. Unlike a ship, the armor has to have parts of itself move relative to each other. Getting the output portals to mirror that is too hard.

That works well. You would need two vacuums at least: a heat vacuum and a standard vacuum. Everyone seems to keep forgetting high speed winds break vacuum filters. Worst case scenario, it could be an ortho engine block with some type of power source (probably magnetic) and use that to increase speed beyond terminal velocity. Of course, this model of the ship requires doctorate principles, or at least magisterial if your "ship" is just a room in your castle.

A similar principle could apply to your power armor. Have your body be in a different place than your arms, legs and head, letting any spell you need be cast on you by your spell output array. In a worst case scenario, you can pull your appendages back to your home base and seal the portals. This would also let you wear heavy armor on the other end on your hands, legs and head, with your limbs being held an appropriate distance apart by bars of alchemetricly enhanced mithril or tin, depending on how much money you have to spend. Hope that helps!

[Quester]

Hey, can you see a kaleidomantic filter? Filter's are supposed to work like a wall of force, which is invisible, with given exceptions, none of which mention appearance. Which is weird because the only filter that would resemble the color for which its named would be black, and only because it doesn't let light pass.

[General Patton]

That works well. You would need two vacuums at least: a heat vacuum and a standard vacuum. Everyone seems to keep forgetting high speed winds break vacuum filters. Worst case scenario, it could be an ortho engine block with some type of power source (probably magnetic) and use that to increase speed beyond terminal velocity. Of course, this model of the ship requires doctorate principles, or at least magisterial if your "ship" is just a room in your castle.

A similar principle could apply to your power armor. Have your body be in a different place than your arms, legs and head, letting any spell you need be cast on you by your spell output array. In a worst case scenario, you can pull your appendages back to your home base and seal the portals. This would also let you wear heavy armor on the other end on your hands, legs and head, with your limbs being held an appropriate distance apart by bars of alchemetricly enhanced mithril or tin, depending on how much money you have to spend. Hope that helps!

If the edges of all the portals are connected without gaps and the entire inside of that space is a yellow filter vacuum chamber, then there is no contact with air, stationary or moving.

Oh my gosh, you're a genius! One of my early ideas was something similar to motion capture wireframe model thingies. Things being held at certain distances by bars of material has inspired me with a way to flesh out that other method.

First of all, our notion for the standard VCAC (vacuum chamber antigrav core) needs to be altered to include at least 8 gravity fluxes distributed evenly across it, each covering one quarter of a hemisphere. This allows for both rotation and propulsion in any directions simultaneously. The armor proxy's main VCAC will be located somewhere in the torso and act as the driving element for the motion and orientation of the whole. Tethered to this will be a number of yellow filters which hold other VCACs. These will function in a fashion comparable to ball and socket joints, albeit more flexible, in order to rotate and turn the limbs/head/etc. Continue adding these elements as you work your way down through the limbs to the smallest mobile extremities. Tether your proxy portals to these individual sub-elements and get an EI to orchestrate all of the rotating joints to correspond with your motions in the armor.

However you build the actual armor, its presence on other planes will be capable of effortlessly floating, gliding, flying and reorienting itself without resistance, with no upper speed limit. Having the actual armor in a gravity flux with some imachination effects would give you a perfect simulated environment for controlling it. Your EI can keep the armor floating in one spot, close to your helpful support stuff, while it fakes the sensation of gravity any time you need to orient yourself with the ground. Of course, you might not want to feel gravity, if maybe you're circle strafing in some crazy diagonal direction over your target, at 80 mph, while spinning, and flipping. In that case, anti-dizzy mode is totally an option too.

[jojolagger]

Just remember, 100 logical decisions per round. Meaning you'll likely want multiple EI's each in charge of specific functions, as each joint movement could end up as multiple logical decisions, and normal movement uses lots of joints.

[General Patton]

The optimal building material for this armor would likely be some alchemetricly enhanced material turned Biollurgical so it gets fast healing and can benefit from heal spells. Use a time accelerated demiplane and have your power armor control facility made out of quicksilver for quadruple time. You'll want a Dreamason to produce all the EIs and circuitry so that the circuits' bubbles protrude through the portals and expose all nearby enemies to all 4 types of Dreamcatcher. With the EIs gaining XP from this, they could all take levels in spellcasting/manifesting classes and provide you with gratuitous amounts of spells/powers in an emergency. Get input transformers overlapping the armor to eat most harmful effects. Imachination on the armor and proxy for a perfect cloaking system, including the possibility of decoys that function better than displacement. Get some xenomachinery tools for all of the ranged attack grafts built into the armor, particularly Nimbus of Light so you can ignore damage reduction. Have the inside of the proxy and your power armor control facility shielded by black filters. You could have those extendable red filter lightsabers built in as well. A bunch of other filters could probably be stacked together for perfect environmental protection.

Can anyone else think of stuff I missed? I need to implement all the things.

[Amechra]

You know, there isn't what we think of as wind in space...

[jseah]

Hmm... pushing against any material filter does not exert force on the anchoring object or position.
Therefore, filters violate conservation of momentum, aka, they can make momentum disappear simply by halting objects. =(

If you can make momentum disappear, you can make it appear.

If you can violate conservation of momentum in the sense of arbitrarily deleting momentum, removing conservation of energy is only a short step away.


Bloody hell, this is the same as the ring gates. Reactionless drives are possible... =(

|
|--------O
|

A yellow filter is anchored to a metal ball. A metal spring is inserted between the filter and the ball (this spring can be anything that exerts force, like a high pressure gas cylinder; the pressured cylinder is better because you can do hydraulics on it and adjust the force exerted)

Result: the metal ball goes rocketing off. The spring pushes the ball, the ball accelerates, the yellow filter moves with the ball and pushes the spring...

[Omnicrat]

How is this for a new Oneirotecture ability?

[sorry if I don't format it quite right]

Open source: Requires you have HEUR 302. While preparing HEUR 302 you can choose to not prepare an additional principle in tandem with it. Instead, anyone at a later date can choose to prepare any principle they know and is valid for Abnormal Behavior.

Also, what principles do work? For example, what constitutes an instantaneous effect? I don't see how a filter is more instantaneous than any other principle.

[Morcleon]

How does Aid Another function in regard to preparing principles? Can anyone use Aid Another to help prepare a principle? Do they have to know the principle in question? What's the limit of people that can help?

[Nanoblack]

Would it be possible to create the equivalent of a two-part engine using polar arcane fluxes to make the gravity between orthogonal engines perpendicular?

[ScionoftheVoid]

This is an absolutely incredible system. Just astounding.

Not especially inspired, but a nifty, easily-customisable use of Biollurgy:
If you want these things to breed (I'd recommend budding if you have them do so) you need one Doctorate level principle, otherwise everything is Magisterial or lower.

Required principles: ARCD 101 and 204, BIOY 101 and 228.
Optional extras: BIOY 273, 340 and 381, ALCH 101 and 286.
Note that while the basic form is specialisation-neutral, the optional extras include specialised options for each mentioned discipline. If you want these things to breed you need to specialise in Biollurgy, if you want easy materials to make them you need to specialise in Alchemetry.

Materials required: 1 cubic foot each of gold and silver. We'll also need some spellcasting, though the highest-level spell is second. We also need to pay 50gp for a material component.
The gold is going to become a gold input transformer, while the silver is going to have two preparations of ARCD 101 to become silver outputs keyed to specific spells. One preparation will be keyed to Obscuring Mist and the other to Create Water. I think we can do this, since you can prepare the same material for multiple purposes. If this doesn't apply like this in this case we can just make a totally separate second silver output for the second spell.
Regardless, we then use BIOY 101 to make them all into biostructure and then combine them all into a single mass. We now have a single mass of either two or three cubic feet which has a gold input and two silver outputs, one keyed to Obscuring Mist and one to Create Water. Assuming I'm understanding all of this correctly.
The biostructure will inhale water vapour, we can have it exhale whatever.

Cast Continual Flame on the biostructure (you can probably do this at any point, but you may as well do it now). This guarantees two ebbs per round from the gold input, which can run both spells, setting them off every turn. It has a permanent supply of breathable "air" and of water.

Next, we make this biostructure into a chassis using BIOY 228. The details are, as mentioned, customisable, except that we then want to add two second level grafts: Wakeful Mind and Devil Eye. The former allows it to run around twenty-four hours a day and the latter allows it to see despite the gold input field. It would preferably be omnivorous, because it doesn't have an on-board food supply, but that's all it needs to function. So you have autonomous creatures running around in fields of darkness doing... whatever you equip them to do with their remaining grafts.

If you specialise in Biollurgy you can have them breed, easily making swarms of the things. If you specialise in Alchemetry you can make them out of sunmetal and silver, allowing them to deal negative levels through touch. Have a specialist of each work together and you can get a dark swarm, bringer of the wightocalypse. :smallwink: And that's with first or second and three third or fourth level grafts slots free for customisation. The blind- and tremor-sense grafts obviously remove the need for the Devil Eye, too.

[Necroticplague]

Seeing all the ideas everybody's coming up with want me to try and see what kind of things can be created in 8 hours, projects you can do while the rest of your party sleeps (fun fact I learned while thinking of this: Alchymetry has both the principal with the shortest (ALCH 101) and longest (Unexpected Materials) preparation times, of .5 hours and 4 hours).

[Gideon Falcon]

You know, with the whole Silver Input SR thing, I think that basing it off your ranks in the discipline's key skill is a lot less clunky than basing it off the number of principles known.

In fact, you could use ranks instead of level for any effects that need to scale with level, such as save DCs, caster level check DCs, and similar.