She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

[QuidEst]

fibonacci has a closed-form solution.

True, but not a useful one. It's harder to compute by hand than the recursive implementation.

[sreservoir]

True, but not a useful one. It's harder to compute by hand than the recursive implementation.

the recursive implementation is significantly harder without memoization. we just happen to be able to make the recursive implementation linear by memoization because we know that the fibonacci mapping is a function.

we could theoretically do that in finite space, but I'd think most of us begin with a known pair and do out the calculations on paper without erasing, which makes for essentially linear space. (it's ... more like quadratic, because number length, but.)

a naïve recursive implementation, if you cared to work it out, takes O(fib) time and O(fib) space.

the close-form solution with exponentiation should be somewhere around O(ln n) to compute, but just has a really huge constant hidden in the O-notation for most of us.

[QuidEst]

-snip-
There is a time and place for O notation- having it show up in D&D is usually a bad sign. XP
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/equations/FibonacciNumber/NumberedEquation6.gif
That's not going to happen.

[sreservoir]

There is a time and place for O notation- having it show up in D&D is usually a bad sign. XP
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/equations/FibonacciNumber/NumberedEquation6.gif
That's not going to happen.

hm, I wonder what a god kills when cs comes up!

[Amechra]

People who are bad at math!

So there are more of us left.

And, for those that are curious, I suggested Sigma Fibonacci. Because I like it.

[Arcanist]

I suggested Sigma Fibonacci. Because I like it.

Chemistry has beaten the "bad at math" out of me I'm afraid :smallsigh:

Unfortunately I am not versed in Sigma, mind giving me a crash course? (PM me) :smallsmile:

[QuidEst]

Chemistry has beaten the "bad at math" out of me I'm afraid :smallsigh:

Unfortunately I am not versed in Sigma, mind giving me a crash course? (PM me) :smallsmile:

Sigmas are used for sums, so Sigma Fibonacci simply uses calculation by summation. (Or adding numbers, if you're willing to pass up a perfectly good rhyme.)

[Arcanist]

Sigmas are used for sums, so Sigma Fibonacci simply uses calculation by summation. (Or adding numbers, if you're willing to pass up a perfectly good rhyme.)

Ah, I've always just referred to it as adding. Well that's humiliating :smallredface:

[QuidEst]

Ah, I've always just referred to it as adding. Well that's humiliating :smallredface:

(Don't worry- I always did as well. XP)

[Silverbit]

Wow. Just.... Just.... Wow.
This is amazing. All of it. It all interacts! All of it. I shudder to think of the effort that must have gone into creating all this... But.... Wow. All I can say. I've just started a thread for a low level Gramaire game, in the PBP forum. Thank you for making this awesome stuff.

Questions: Can you add a transformer to biostructure? Can you add biostructure to yourself? Can you add Eldrikinetic engines to biostructure, and thus yourself?
I'm thinking of going Biolurgy specialist, with a hearty sprinkling of transformers and engines. Being able to add them to creatures intrinsically would help.

[Omnicrat]

Wow. Just.... Just.... Wow.
This is amazing. All of it. It all interacts! All of it. I shudder to think of the effort that must have gone into creating all this... But.... Wow. All I can say. I've just started a thread for a low level Gramaire game, in the PBP forum. Thank you for making this awesome stuff.

Questions: Can you add a transformer to biostructure? Can you add biostructure to yourself? Can you add Eldrikinetic engines to biostructure, and thus yourself?
I'm thinking of going Biolurgy specialist, with a hearty sprinkling of transformers and engines. Being able to add them to creatures intrinsically would help.

Answers (hopefully correct ones too! :smalltongue:): Yes, but only if it started as the appropriate metal. I don't think an official ruling was made on this, but probably. Same as with transformers.

Note: The average human takes up a total volume of two cubic feet. To add engines or transformers would a) add 50% of the persons volume to them again for only one and b) add hundreds of pounds of weight the person's own muscles would have to hold up. Not the best of ideas.

[Milo v3]

To add engines or transformers would a) add 50% of the persons volume to them again for only one and b) add hundreds of pounds of weight the person's own muscles would have to hold up. Not the best of ideas.

a) I'd say replace rather than add.
b) You can reduce the weight of the metal before it becomes biostructure using Alchemetry.

[Silverbit]

Thanks for the replies. Can you add biostructure to living creatures, and then mutate it? It might be an easy way of adding grafts. Or I could be completely misunderstanding the Biollurgy stuff, in relation to PCs.

[QuidEst]

Questions: Can you add a transformer to biostructure? Can you add biostructure to yourself? Can you add Eldrikinetic engines to biostructure, and thus yourself?
I'm thinking of going Biolurgy specialist, with a hearty sprinkling of transformers and engines. Being able to add them to creatures intrinsically would help.

We've established that biostructure from something like carmot or sunmetal retains its properties. So while you probably can't add an engine to biostructure, you might be able to turn one into biostructure without ruining it.

Unfortunately, weight will be a huge problem. Let's say you want a simply orthogonal engine- that's made of iron. You need a cubic foot of it (which is going to be large and unwieldily anyway). That's 491 pounds. If you found an Alchemetrist managed a Diplomacy check of 100 (enough to start casually wiping out cities when you please), you could reduce that to 49 pounds, which is still rather inconvenient. All of the materials listed have the same problem, or cannot have their weight reduced. You could get a submerging engine attached, but that is not very useful. (Note that turning yourself into a submerging engine would drain all the blood from yourself.)

[Volthawk]

Hm. How have I only just noticed that high level Shadowrights can be radioactive and explode like a radiomantic material?

Hm, now I'm thinking about how using Unorthodox Triggers and attaching sufficiently charged orichalcum as a kind of dead-man's switch thing as a deterrent from attacking him (if you've read Snow Crash, a bit like Raven).

[QuidEst]

Hm. How have I only just noticed that high level Shadowrights can be radioactive and explode like a radiomantic material?

Hm, now I'm thinking about how using Unorthodox Triggers and attaching sufficiently charged orichalcum as a kind of dead-man's switch thing as a deterrent from attacking him (if you've read Snow Crash, a bit like Raven).

There's also the low-budget version. If they instead carry a small piece of fully charged Ruby filter stored in an extradimensional space to keep it safe, they can set it off with just a little cold damage, dealing 1000d6 fire damage to a radius just shy of a mile. Since Shadowright can get immunity to fire, they can survive it.

[Volthawk]

There's also the low-budget version. If they instead carry a small piece of fully charged Ruby filter stored in an extradimensional space to keep it safe, they can set it off with just a little cold damage, dealing 1000d6 fire damage to a radius just shy of a mile. Since Shadowright can get immunity to fire, they can survive it.

True, there are other ways, but eh, I like the idea of having the capacity of being a walking nuke. Also, raw fire damage has it's limitations, fire immunity being the biggie (also, it doesn't quite kill the land like a radiomantic bomb).

Probably a silly question, but eh - does detonating kill you? What about if you're a Shadowright 10 and thus have immunity to the negative levels and damage from a radiomantic detonation?

[QuidEst]

True, there are other ways, but eh, I like the idea of having the capacity of being a walking nuke. Also, raw fire damage has it's limitations, fire immunity being the biggie (also, it doesn't quite kill the land like a radiomantic bomb).

By the way, where does it include the detonation bit? I couldn't find that.

[Volthawk]

By the way, where does it include the detonation bit? I couldn't find that.

Emphasis mine.


Frequent: At 9th level, you gain frequent vision. Just as fast as the speed of light is the speed of the darkness that it casts. With your sight moving at such speeds, how can mortal barriers obstruct you? As a free action, you can turn this ability on or off; while active, you can see through obstacles within 120ft. of you. You can choose how many layers to penetrate inside of the area of effect. Lead is the only thing that blocks your vision; however, while this ability is active, you give off radiation like a radiomantic metal with the same volume as your body (and can explode like one).

[Necroticplague]

Unfortunately, weight will be a huge problem. Let's say you want a simply orthogonal engine- that's made of iron. You need a cubic foot of it (which is going to be large and unwieldily anyway). That's 491 pounds. If you found an Alchemetrist managed a Diplomacy check of 100 (enough to start casually wiping out cities when you please), you could reduce that to 49 pounds, which is still rather inconvenient. All of the materials listed have the same problem, or cannot have their weight reduced.
You don't have to make that giant check all at once. You free to reduce its density by a smaller amount multiple times. Although, looking at that raises a question for me: when it says the density is "altered by a factor", does that means it's added/ subtracted (so getting a result of one is pretty much useless), or is it multiplied/divided (in which case getting a one is very useful, since this results in a factor of 1/10).

[QuidEst]

Emphasis mine.

Ah! Thank you. I would say you are destroyed. My reasoning is that you can't re-use a sunmetal bomb. So even if you protect yourself, I don't think you can survive blowing yourself up.


You don't have to make that giant check all at once. You free to reduce its density by a smaller amount multiple times. Although, looking at that raises a question for me: when it says the density is "altered by a factor", does that means it's added/ subtracted (so getting a result of one is pretty much useless), or is it multiplied/divided (in which case getting a one is very useful, since this results in a factor of 1/10).

Oh, you're right! One of the lower-level principles only lets you have one applied at a time, so it has to be all in one check. This doesn't have that, though. That's good… you can get stuff really light this way. Thanks for clearing that up. And it would be multiplied or divided. One check of 100 gets me 1/10 the weight. Two checks of 50 would be much better- 1/25 the original weight.

[Necroticplague]

Ah! Thank you. I would say you are destroyed. My reasoning is that you can't re-use a sunmetal bomb. So even if you protect yourself, I don't think you can survive blowing yourself up.



Oh, you're right! One of the lower-level principles only lets you have one applied at a time, so it has to be all in one check. This doesn't have that, though. That's good… you can get stuff really light this way. Thanks for clearing that up. And it would be multiplied or divided. One check of 100 gets me 1/10 the weight. Two checks of 50 would be much better- 1/25 the original weight.

In that case, if it multiplied/divided, a really high check and a really low check are the same. Instead of getting 100 and dividing by 10, rolling a 1 and multiplying by 1/10 give the same results.

[Milo v3]

I thought that you add or subtract and that it works like the following:
Roll Result 1 = ±1/10 lb.
Roll Result 10 = ±1 lb.
Roll Result 20 = ±2 lb.
Roll Result 100 = ±10 lb.

[sirpercival]

I thought that you add or subtract and that it works like the following:
Roll Result 1 = ±1/10 lb.
Roll Result 10 = ±1 lb.
Roll Result 20 = ±2 lb.
Roll Result 100 = ±10 lb.

That would allow for 0 and negative weight.

[QuidEst]

In that case, if it multiplied/divided, a really high check and a really low check are the same. Instead of getting 100 and dividing by 10, rolling a 1 and multiplying by 1/10 give the same results.

No, not according to the wording. You can change it by a factor up to 1/10 of your roll. A roll of one is useless- whether you multiply or divide, you are changing it by a factor of 10, which is greater than 1/10. (You may be using the 1/10, but you're also changing it by a factor of 10.) The wording there could use some clearing up to avoid that, and possibly to limit continued doubling or halving with a result of 20. (If it is the intent to require high rolls for large changes.)

[Omnicrat]

a) I'd say replace rather than add.
b) You can reduce the weight of the metal before it becomes biostructure using Alchemetry.

a) As far as I know, half of your body mass being taken away (regardless of what half you remove) would be fatal. Your organs wouldn't function as they should if turned into biostructure.

b) Not by enough for the average humanoid.

B edit: ... except for all the explaining everyone just said. Are we sure the second application uses the new weight, not the original? I thought original.

[Necroticplague]

a) As far as I know, half of your body mass being taken away (regardless of what half you remove) would be fatal. Your organs wouldn't function as they should if turned into biostructure.
Two counterpoints:
1: You can survive in the technical sense without any of your limbs, as long as bleeding is stopped. Fortunately, a little over 50% of all body weight is in the limbs, so you could, indeed, lose over 50% of your body mass and still survive. Plus, even getting into the core, their are many muscles used only for movement, and aren't strictly necessary (in fact, some people have deformities that make them lack those muscles, with the only effect being an odd restriction of movement, like "can't raise arms over their head").

2.Are we sure organs would stop functioning if it became biostructure? A sword still cuts as well when its biostructure, and a wall still supports when its biostructure,and armor still protects you (arguably better, since its not as likely to break), so why wouldn't organs continue doing whatever when turned to biostructure?

[QuidEst]

2.Are we sure organs would stop functioning if it became biostructure? A sword still cuts as well when its biostructure, and a wall still supports when its biostructure,and armor still protects you (arguably better, since its not as likely to break), so why wouldn't organs continue doing whatever when turned to biostructure?

I'm fairly sure. Your organs will now need to breathe in addition to requiring blood for oxygen. If you want it animated, it will now also need to eat in addition to requiring blood to provide nutrients. Furthermore, assuming this works, you now have organs with their own HD. The next fireball will kill your organs, which you are dependent on. If you want grafts, you can:
1) Cut off limbs and design the chassis to attach to the stump
2) Play Xenoalchemist
3) Play Graughtsman



B edit: ... except for all the explaining everyone just said. Are we sure the second application uses the new weight, not the original? I thought original.
No, we're not. I don't think it should, RA(my)I. But RAW, it doesn't say to use the original.

[Necroticplague]

I'm fairly sure.

1.Your organs will now need to breathe in addition to requiring blood for oxygen.
2. If you want it animated, it will now also need to eat in addition to requiring blood to provide nutrients. Furthermore, assuming this works, you now have organs with their own HD.
3.The next fireball will kill your organs, which you are dependent on. If you want grafts, you can:

O.k., taking this point by point:
1. You could very well say that the organ normally breaths by getting the gasses through the blood stream, and will continue to do so after conversion into biomass.
2. Why the heck would you animate your own organs? Irregardless, this is answered pretty similarly to the above question, it normally eats by absorbing nutrients from the blood stream, and will continue to do so.
3. Except for the fact that your body will interrupt line of sight and line of effect to your internals, making them untargetable unless you come across a psionic user with Burrowing Power and a ring of x-ray vision.

Edit: I just realized this was all a moot point anyway, because you can't target just part of a creature with BOIY101 anyway.

[Draken]

I'm fairly sure. Your organs will now need to breathe in addition to requiring blood for oxygen. If you want it animated, it will now also need to eat in addition to requiring blood to provide nutrients. Furthermore, assuming this works, you now have organs with their own HD. The next fireball will kill your organs, which you are dependent on. If you want grafts, you can:
1) Cut off limbs and design the chassis to attach to the stump
2) Play Xenoalchemist
3) Play Graughtsman


No, we're not. I don't think it should, RA(my)I. But RAW, it doesn't say to use the original.

Technically, your internal organs would have full cover from area spells and effects. This full cover would be you.

[Anecronwashere]

What is the best storage device possible?
Barring actual batteries.

Is it possible to simply loop ebbs through an Array that generates/loses a net of 0 Ebbs and keep it running indefinitely.
With both a way of inputting from the real generator and an output to release the Ebbs.

[Omnicrat]

What is the best storage device possible?
Barring actual batteries.

Is it possible to simply loop ebbs through an Array that generates/loses a net of 0 Ebbs and keep it running indefinitely.
With both a way of inputting from the real generator and an output to release the Ebbs.

Its possible to make systems like this that produce new ebbs on their own. An old system of mine that got removed due to utter brokenness involved one lightout with hundreds or thousands of lightins. While that system no longer works, there are still many infinite increasing ebb generators. Battery and factory all rolled into one!

[Anecronwashere]

Yes I know.
But I want a stable one because of an array I'm thinking of making.

If I store it all cycling (mostly to save money from all the Orrichalum Id need to generate or whatever) I can keep it at a constant level.
Then I can simply dump the whole thing into a series of SilverOut Telekinesis set to move the small rocks I set SilverIns, Filters etc. on to make a turtle mode for my battleship, (and optionally if I can get enough generators to provide backups to switch them if broken down)

And I don't want wastage, I'm OCD like that but I'd rather simply not generate or bleed off the extra Ebbs in storage than watch it go to waste when I activate the thing.

If I just hook a generator array up then I'd need to devote that section which would likely take more than a battery Array. But by making it via a battery Array I can have my generators only divert power to it when it needs recharging (set Logic Circuit so I divert Puissance into the Battery Array when below X Ebbs, otherwise work into my backup power supply running through the ship)

Also is there any way to make an EI control more than a 25ft radius? ie. hook multiple Circuits together so EIs make logical decisions over all of them

[Omnicrat]

Yes I know.
But I want a stable one because of an array I'm thinking of making.

If I store it all cycling (mostly to save money from all the Orrichalum Id need to generate or whatever) I can keep it at a constant level.
Then I can simply dump the whole thing into a series of SilverOut Telekinesis set to move the small rocks I set SilverIns, Filters etc. on to make a turtle mode for my battleship, (and optionally if I can get enough generators to provide backups to switch them if broken down)

And I don't want wastage, I'm OCD like that but I'd rather simply not generate or bleed off the extra Ebbs in storage than watch it go to waste when I activate the thing.

If I just hook a generator array up then I'd need to devote that section which would likely take more than a battery Array. But by making it via a battery Array I can have my generators only divert power to it when it needs recharging (set Logic Circuit so I divert Puissance into the Battery Array when below X Ebbs, otherwise work into my backup power supply running through the ship)

Also is there any way to make an EI control more than a 25ft radius? ie. hook multiple Circuits together so EIs make logical decisions over all of them

You could always use your excess ebbs for lighting or a sustained positive energy field inside your battle cruiser. When you enter combat mode, the lighting dims and the positive energy field either goes away or gets reduced... or stays up to heal biostructure armor. Probably that second one. Still, dimmed lighting as a signal for entering battle and a way to sate your ocd seems good. Hm... if you have your crew all be undead, you could have a negative energy field that also helps against boarding parties. Can biostructure be undead? OH! Why can't we select which two energy types heal/harm? Like healed by fire but extra hurt by water?

[Anecronwashere]

If you could designate a vulnerability to water damage everyone would take it
Considering there isn't any such damage type

The ship isn't built traditionally. I'm trying to abuse as much of semispace as I can, so even if there is an inside (and not just 10x cycles of all Filters, then as many Generators as I can stuff into Semispaces filling that area) about 1/2 of the inhabitable part will be planetside (and airtight, not to mention very well defended) and using Semispace to make non-euclidean hallways and rooms (with the Always-Go-Right/Left option leading straight to a prison made entirely of Purple Filter (except the door which slides down at the start of the hallways and moves down to catch the whole team))

I could switch it so if there is a positive charging make a connection into the main power grid to power misc stuff. Thanks :smallsmile:

It would end up something like this:
--------IxxI---Defense Mode
IxxxxxxxIxxI
IxxxxxxxI--O--Main power
I-------I
I
I
Input from original generator


xs are empty space. The box is the battery. O is the connection point
Input comes in. Logical Decision to not send more Ebbs in when it has X Ebbs
If Ebbs inBattery >= X+1 create connection and pass excess Ebbs into the connection point
If Ebbs in Battery < X+1 stop sending Puissant to the Connection Point

Connection: If Turtle-Mode Activated send all Puissant to Defense Mode
If Turtle-Mode not Activated do not send any Puissant to Defense Mode
If Turtle-Mode not Activated send all Puisant to Main Power
If Turtle-Mode Activated do not send any Puissant to Defense Mode

Depending on size of battery I could make the same EI in Battery and Connection Mode

[thethird]

This is a really cool concept/class/prc!

As a chemical engineer (and as an industrial engineer) I approve!

First of all let me congratulate Kellus and everyone who contributed during this 35 pages long thread. You made an awesome accomplishment this class is so... awesome. I cannot pick only one specialization, it leads me to want to play it, so many times, one after another, it is really really cool.

Some questions/ideas to see if they would work.

Can a high level biollurgist / graughtsman (with mad surgeon feat, to be able to attach two grafts of the head slot) with the help of an alchemetrist create a chasis, turn into gold, and then into a GoldInput ARCD transformer, with a nimbus of light graft (from the xenoalchemist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205119)'s graft) with knowledge of how to make WoodOutput ARCD and HEUR 101 (to link itself to circuits).

Basically it is a creature that emits light and processes it into ebbs.

Could said creature, let's call it "maintenance wasp" have the instinct to go to batteries and just connect itself there?

Could someone create a circuit with a SilverOutput that periodically casts Darsson's Fiery Furnace (http://dndtools.eu/spells/shining-south--25/darssons-fiery-furnace--3274/) (60 C) into an IceInput. How would that work? Which effect takes precedence? At which rate are the ebbs produced?

[Necroticplague]

Also is there any way to make an EI control more than a 25ft radius? ie. hook multiple Circuits together so EIs make logical decisions over all of them

an EI can control anything connected to its circuit. I've found that imachinations are useful for expanding circuits.Like "A fake image of the floor half an inch above the actual one" would allow you to connect everything on the ground in a circuit within the radius of the illusions. You can add more illusions to use as conjunction points, or different illusions for different situations (to deal with moving biostructures, they're connected by an adaptive rope).

[Gideon Falcon]

Alright, let's give this a whirl:

The Dementianeer

Requirements: To become a Dementianeer, you must fulfill all of the following requirements.
Gramarie: Any two Principles
Skills: Knowledge (The Planes): 8 ranks
Special: Must have the Strange Anatomy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153536) class feature.

Hit Die: d8
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Class Skills: The Dementianeer's class skills are Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha)

The Dementianeer
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Principles

1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Manifest Form, Mad Science (Alchemetry)|
+0

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Mad Science (Biollurgy)|
+1

3rd|+2|+1|+1|+3|Strange Movement, Mad Science (Eldrikinetics)|
+2

4th|+3|+1|+1|+4|Swallow Whole, Mad Science (Yggdratecture)|
+3

5th|+3|+1|+1|+4|Mad Science (Geoccultism), Gramaric Discovery|
+3

6th|+4|+2|+2|+5|Mad Science (Heuristicism)|
+4

7th|+5|+2|+2|+5|Mad Science (Imachination)|
+5

8th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+6|Mad Science (Arcanodynamics)|
+6

9th|+6/+1|+3|+3|+6|Mad Science (Kaleidomantics)|
+6

10th|+7/+2|+3|+3|+7|Mad Science (Apotheosis), Gramaric Discovery|
+7

[/table]

All of the following are class features of the Dementianeer.

Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: As a dementianeer, you gain no additional weapon or armour proficiencies.

Manifest Form (Ex): Dementianeer levels stack with Ozodrin Levels for the Manifest Form ability and features available.

Form Points: The dementianeer gains 2 Form Points per level.

Principles of Gramary: You continue to advance your study of gramarie. At 2nd level, and again whenever indicated on the class table, you learn a new principle of gramarie that you qualify for. At 5th level you gain access to Magisterial-level principles.

Mad Science (Ex): At each level indicated, you gain an ability fusing your otherworldy nature with the science you have dedicated yourself to.

Alchemetry: The penalty from Aberrant Feats to Diplomacy does not apply to checks made to prepare Alchemetry principles. In addition, you gain the following augment to all features that grant natural attacks:

Alchemical Feature:
Cost: 5 form points
Benefit: When you shape this augment, choose a special weapon material. The feature this augment is applied to is treated as being made of that material for all purposes.
Special: This augment may only be applied a number of times to a particular feature equal to the number of ALCH principles you know.

Biollurgy: When you create a Biollurgical Chassis, you may choose to replace one of the available grafts with a number of features equal to the number of BIOL principles you know. In order to do so, you must sacrifice half again as many form points as it would cost to shape those features. The combined cost of the features cannot exceed your Charisma modifier. You may also apply this ability to stationary Biostructure. To remove or change features so placed, you must be in contact with the structure or chassis.

Eldrikinetics: You gain the Strange Movement class feature, as the Ozodrin. Dementianeer levels and Ozodrin levels stack to determine the maximum distance traveled each day, as well as to determine the limitations of the feature. You gain five additional feet of Strange Movement for every ELDR principle you know.

Yggdratecture: You gain the Swallow Whole class feature, as the Ozodrin, if you did not already have it. In addition, the size of your Primary Stomach, as well as any Stomachs you form with the stomach feature, double in size. This does not affect the Large Stomach augment. Note that any class that progresses Manifest Form also increases stomach size.

Geoccultism: You may place a single Geoccult Pole inside of your Primary Stomach. This affects the entirety of your stomach, and any other stomachs you form. The basic effects of the pole are powered by your internal systems, and you need only pay material or ebb costs for terrain and climate features placed within. In addition, if you have GEO 323, you may incorporate an additional metal type into a pole.

Heuristicism: You and any separate features formed by you can be included in heuristic circuits as other forms of Gramary. Such separate features may be controlled through the circuit as logical decisions.

Imachination: You gain the benefits of the Live My Nightmare feat, even if you do not meet the prerequisites. The save DC for the effect is equal to the save DC for your Manifest Form, although feats such as Ability Focus affect them separately. If you gain the Sinister Image class feature, all your Imachination images count as images of you, no matter the actual sensory output. In addition, the first time any creature encounters a particular Imachination construction of yours, they make a Will save, at the same DC as your features. If they fail, the image becomes a phantasm for them, and they percieve all the appropriate sensory input, thus preventing any sensory mismatch. Fundamental Disconnects are still possible. If the creature succeeds on their saving throw, they continue as before, none the wiser, but cannot be subjected to this ability again for the same Imachination construction.

Arcanodynamics: You gain access to the following augment to the Flesh feature:

Voltaic Flesh:
Cost 6: A flesh with this augment may hold a number of ebbs equal to your CHA mod. This augmet may only be applied to a skin once. Any affects of the flesh that would produce nourishment (e.x., Energy Consuming Flesh, Magic Eating Flesh) may instead at you option produce one ebb per pound of food/gallon of water the nourishment is considered. If the flesh is also a Regenerative flesh, you may use one ebb in place of a pound of food. You may use up one ebb to be considered to have consumed a pound of food and drank a gallon of water for purposes of avoiding dehydration and starvation. Multiple Voltaic Flesh do stack when determining total capacity, but you cannot use up ebbs from more than one voltaic flesh in a round (you're free to absorb ebbs to multiple Voltaic Flesh in a round, however).

Kaleidomantics: When you create a Kaleidomantic Filter, you may choose for the substance it blocks to be transported instead to the interior of one of your stomachs. This can only affect a number of filters equal to the number of KALD principles you know. In addition, you may place a single Special Eye on each of the same number of filters. They cannot see, but the effect of their gaze emanates from the filter, affecting creatures who see it as normal.

Apotheosis: You have attained the height of your abilities, and your scientific and extracosmological abilities fuse in disturbing harmony. You gain the Construct type and the Aberrant Construct (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10058670&postcount=46) subtype.

Gramaric Discovery (Ex): At 5th and 10th levels, you gain a Gramaric Discovery from the list associated with your specialization. This does not provide any benefit if you do not have a specialization.

Thanks, Necropticplague, for the help on this. Your input was valuable, as you can see.

[Arcanist]

Eager to see your revamp for the class :smallsmile:

MASSIVE EDIT:

Since it has become apparent that the Min/Max forum will not be back up for a while I matter as well post some fixes that I figured for the Chrononaut a while back, but never got to implement. Tell me your thoughts :smallsmile:

Yes, I was inspired to do this by the guy above me, now shush!


The Chrononaut

"Time is money... Actually Time is the non-spatial continuum in which events occur linearly usually in the direction of increasing entropy"

http://th08.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/322/8/d/time_traveler_for_ifx_by_jessibeans-d5lfq6d.jpg
image credit JessiBeans (http://jessibeans.deviantart.com/) of deviantart.com

The Chrononaut are explorers first and foremost who explore not just singular locations in the multiverse, but multiple moments in that same multiverse. Most people spend their entire lives trying to find a Chrononaut only to never encounter one, however on rare occasions they select a very lucky person to travel with them throughout time and space.

Requirements: To become a Chrononaut you must meet all of the following requirements.
Gramarie: Polarcane Geometry and Any 1 YGGD & Atypical Ballistics any 1 ELDK Principles
Skills: Concentration 13 ranks, Forgery 13 ranks
Specialization: Must be specialized in Yggdratecture or Eldrikinetics

Hit Die: d4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifer

Class Skills: A Chrononaut's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (architecture and engineering) (Int), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (the Planes) (Int), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

The Chrononaut
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Principles|Bonus Principles

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Yggdrakinetic Applications, Journey (Seconds)|+0|+1|

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|Journey (Hours), ETT (Heal)|+1|+1|

3rd|
+1|
+3|
+1|
+3|Journey (Days), ETT (Open Locks)|+2|+1|

4th|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|Journey (Months), ETT (Gramarie), Doctorate principles|+3|+2|

5th|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|Journey (Years), ETT (Fantastic!), Temporal Casualty|+4|+3|[/table]

All of the following are class features of the Chrononaut.

Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: As a Chrononaut, you gain no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

Yggdrakinetic Application: A Chononaut specializes in the transportation of objects and people across time and space, through the combined applications of Yggdratecture Semi-spaces and Eldrikinetic Engines. Upon entering this prestige class you are treated as if you specialized in both Yggdratecture and Eldrikinetics disciplines, can select specialist and doctorate level principles from either of these disciplines. In addition to this, at 1st, 4th and 5th level you gain access to one bonus principle that must be spent on either an Eldrikinetic or Yggdratecture principle.


At 1st level you may select between Incongruous Pathways or Unnatural Propulsion.
At 4th level you may select between Uncanny Cosmology or Strange Locomotion.
At 5th level you may select between Abstruse Causality or Immaterial Travel.


Journey (Su): A Chrononaut's particular research into Eldrikinetic Engines and Yggratecture Semi-space finally enlightens them to discover a cheap and effective method of travel to anywhere... or when...


At 1st level, you discover an interesting feature of Polarcane Geometry gaining access to the Time Flux
Time:This kind of Flux has a different flow of time then normal proportional to the amount of Push traveling or generated inside the Flux. By generating 100 Push inside a Time Flux you allow the contents of the bubble to exist 1 round/100 push into the future. This functions exactly like a Double Time Demiplane except in size. Living creatures cannot travel through a Time Flux. Push does not generate motion while inside a Time Flux.

At 2nd level, you discover the method for creating Time Rooms. By creating a Semi-space and then tethering a Time Flux inside of it you create a special Time Room that exist on a 4th dimensional plane of existance. This Time Room functions as a Time Flux, however it allows for living creatures and you may instead exert twice the amount of Push to travel through hours instead of rounds (1 hour/200 Push).
At 3rd level, you learn how to connect two different Time streams together through the Incongruous Pathways Principle. In addition to this you learn how to exert more control over a Time Flux. By supplying more Push to a Time Flux you can travel forwards by days instead of hours or rounds (1 day/300 Push). You may use any amount of Push generated to achieve travel to a specific point in time (For example: 300 Push, 200 of which would be used to travel forward by 1 hour and 100 of which will be used to travel 1 round).
At 4th level, you make an astounding discovery in the field of Yggdratecture and Eldrikinetic temporal applications, gaining a mastery over 4th dimensional perception. You are now able to travel backwards in time as well as forwards, however traveling backwards in time might create a Time Paradox at which point you are vulnerable to inducing the Blinovich Limitation Effect which states:


"The Universe does not allow Paradox, and will attempt to repair damage invoked by Paradoxes by any means necessary. Small changes to details can be executed with relative ease, thanks to faulty and fickle memory and records. Most often the Universe will adjust for the Paradox created through any number of means, most predominantly in causing another, less significant figure to step in and take that role to fulfill the event in question.

An example of this would be traveling back in time to assassinate an important figure before they become relevant. The Universe would simply create a double of that person continuously until that person fulfills there fate.

Creating a Predestination Paradox (such as meeting yourself in the past and giving yourself foreknowledge or any attempt to do so) is also against the Universes wishes as well. As such, the parties meeting will invariable forget there entire meeting and all traces of said meeting will vanish immediately thereafter. However, traveling back in time as you are about to die to show your past self your dead body is acceptable as no detailed information is granted from either party beyond the fact that you are about to die.

In addition to this new found access to the entirety of Time you discover methods of enhancing your Time Fluxes. You may now now travel to Months in addition to Days, Hours and Rounds by supplying a greater amount of Push (400Push/Month).


At 5th level you possess a complete Mastery of Time. Whenever you are in a Time Flux that is inside a Semi-Space that is Tether to an object of your bulk rating or greater. You may connect a Planejumping Engine if you have access to the Immaterial Travel Principle. In addition to functioning as a standard Planejumping Engine you may also have it replicate the effects of a Greater Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportGreater.htm) at the same cost. Also, by supplying an extreme amount of push into a Time Flux, you can travel years in addition to Months, Days, Hours, and Rounds (500/Push/Year).

ETT (Emergency Temporal Tools) (Su): You have developed a number of tools that assist you in your explorations of Time. At 2nd level you may take 10 on any heal check to stabilize a dying character as a Full-Round action. At 3rd level you may replicate a Knock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/knock.htm) or an Arcane Lock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/arcaneLock.htm) spell on any door within 30ft of you as a full round action without any material components. At 4th level you may destabilize any gramarie within 30ft of you as a full-round action for 5 rounds, the gramarie is treated as if it were in an Anti-magic field for the duration of this effect. At 5th level you may use any of the previous abilities as a standard action instead.

Temporal Causality (Ex): At 5th level your constant exposure to Push and the Time Fluxes effects have altered your genetic structure. You no longer age and are immune to the penalties of aging. In addition to this, you gain a special trait that allows you to overcome death. Once per day if you are reduced to 0 or below HP you may subject yourself to a special type of Reincarnation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htm). You are reincarnated as your own race with an entirely new appearance. You lose no level, no XP, no Constitution as per the normal Reincarnation spell. Performing this takes 1 minute to complete during which you are at your most vulnerable and are considered Helpless (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#helpless) until the process is complete. After this process is complete you take a -5 to all rolls involving Strength, Dexterity and Constitution for 24 hours after reincarnating.

Credit: My Uncle for sitting me in front of old reruns of the classic Doctor Who when I was growing up, Kellus for this wondrous piece of homebrew, Sirpercival for giving me a better idea of how to manage Time Paradoxes.

I now leave you with a quote from I'm sure most of you already stating out your Chrononaut are thinking about:


"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff."
Thinking back, I probably should have used that for the quote for this class!

[TooManySecrets]

Okay, so I'm interested in making a Graughtsman in a campaign. One of the major draws of the Graughtsman is the ability to make biological suits of power armor. The problem is that they seem to suck. Badly.

It comes down to this:

A chassis has different Hit Dice than a normal mass of biostructure. It trades its normal Hit Dice for a single Aberration Hit Die, and gains an additional Hit Die for every size category above Medium.
The way I'm reading this is basically the way new, errata'd shapeshifting works i.e. none of your character abilities transfer over and you act as that creature for the duration.


It trades its normal Hit Dice for a single Aberration Hit Die, and gains an additional Hit Die for every size category above Medium.

The chassis is going to have - at most - 5 HD, and that's at size Colossal, which is extremely hard to effectively play (hope your campaign takes place only in clear, open fields). Realistically, it's going to be 3 HD.

A 3 HD Construct has 3d10 HP, +2 BAB, and +1 to base saves.

In order to make this, you need to be at least a 2nd level Graughtsman, which in turn requires you to be a 7th level Gramarist. When you make your bio-armor, you have 9 HD, 9d6 HP, +4 BAB, +5 to Fort, +2 to Ref, and +8 to Will. In other words, you are almost strictly superior to your bio-armor and are probably superior in HP as well.

You can slightly improve the situation by picking up Material Fleshshape at 4th level Graughtsman and turning your bio-armor into a Dragon, which picks up +1 BAB, turns the HD into d12s, and makes base saves +3. Of course, two levels of Graughtsman gives you 2d6 HP, +1 BAB, and +1 to all saves i.e. it doesn't really improve the power of your bio-armor in relation to you.

Now, your bio-armor does have hardness, which is nice, but being durable doesn't really matter if nobody has any reason to attack you and you have no real way of doing damage. About the only way I could see of salvaging the situation is by giving your bio-armor a damaging graft (like a Draconis Fundamentum or Nimbus of Light) and just spam that, except that it would still probably be better to just give it to yourself through xenomachinery.

Am I missing something here?

[Volthawk]

Okay, so I'm interested in making a Graughtsman in a campaign. One of the major draws of the Graughtsman is the ability to make biological suits of power armor. The problem is that they seem to suck. Badly.

It comes down to this:

The way I'm reading this is basically the way new, errata'd shapeshifting works i.e. none of your character abilities transfer over and you act as that creature for the duration.



The chassis is going to have - at most - 5 HD, and that's at size Colossal, which is extremely hard to effectively play (hope your campaign takes place only in clear, open fields). Realistically, it's going to be 3 HD.

A 3 HD Construct has 3d10 HP, +2 BAB, and +1 to base saves.

In order to make this, you need to be at least a 2nd level Graughtsman, which in turn requires you to be a 7th level Gramarist. When you make your bio-armor, you have 9 HD, 9d6 HP, +4 BAB, +5 to Fort, +2 to Ref, and +8 to Will. In other words, you are almost strictly superior to your bio-armor and are probably superior in HP as well.

You can slightly improve the situation by picking up Material Fleshshape at 4th level Graughtsman and turning your bio-armor into a Dragon, which picks up +1 BAB, turns the HD into d12s, and makes base saves +3. Of course, two levels of Graughtsman gives you 2d6 HP, +1 BAB, and +1 to all saves i.e. it doesn't really improve the power of your bio-armor in relation to you.

Now, your bio-armor does have hardness, which is nice, but being durable doesn't really matter if nobody has any reason to attack you and you have no real way of doing damage. About the only way I could see of salvaging the situation is by giving your bio-armor a damaging graft (like a Draconis Fundamentum or Nimbus of Light) and just spam that, except that it would still probably be better to just give it to yourself through xenomachinery.

Am I missing something here?

Well, there is the size-dependent health boost from being a construct (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#constructType), but yeah, on the whole chassis aren't too resilient, unfortunately.

[Amechra]

I've always thought the number of HD that Chassis get are way too low.

I think it would be totally OK to houserule that any Chassis a Graughtsman builds gets +1 HD for every level you have in Graughtsman.

So a Grammarist 7/Graughtsman 5 could build an 8 HD Dragon Chassis that would be sized as if it were 3 HD.

[TooManySecrets]

Well, there is the size-dependent health boost from being a construct (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#constructType), but yeah, on the whole chassis aren't too resilient, unfortunately.

Purposefully ignoring Construct bonus HP, the same way I was purposefully ignoring Con bonus.

For completeness, however, I'll do the math. Our chassis is going to be created with a Heal check of around 50 (12 Heal ranks, +12 Heal item, +1 from Graughtsman, +3 from Gramarist, +2 from Wis [let's say], taking 20). 50 / 5 = 10. 10 + 10 = 20 Constitution. 3 * 5 Con bonus = 15 bonus HP + 40 construct bonus HP. Total HP = 3d10+55, giving a range of 67 to 85.

Our character has 9d6 HP, plus Con. Let's say our Constitution score is 14 (usually a safe assumption). That's 9d6+18, giving us a range of 32 to 72.

The bio-armor has more HP - as long as it's a Construct. If you change it over to being a Dragon, however, it now has 3d12+15, giving us a range of 29 to 51.

However, it's not just about being resilient. A 9th level Fighter has 9d10 HP, +9 BAB, +6 Fort, and +3 Ref and Will. Remember, too, that the Fighter is probably going to have a Str of at least 14, Dex 12, and Con 14 and 5 Fighter bonus feats and 2 normal feats. The Fighter's HP is 9d10+18, giving us a range of 34 to 106.


It gains a Strength score and a Dexterity score, which combined equal twice the Constitution score of the mass. The exact values are set when this principle is first prepared, and neither the Strength nor the Dexterity can be more than twice the value of the other.

The chassis is going to have a Str of 13 (which gives it a Dex of 7).

(I'm ignoring Size bonuses, mostly because size can be gotten around with Polymorph Other et al and other sorts of spells that, while the Fighter can't cast, he can get access to)


I've always thought the number of HD that Chassis get are way too low.

I think it would be totally OK to houserule that any Chassis a Graughtsman builds gets +1 HD for every level you have in Graughtsman.

So a Grammarist 7/Graughtsman 5 could build an 8 HD Dragon Chassis that would be sized as if it were 3 HD.

Heal skill check = 60 (15 Heal ranks, +15 Heal item, +2 from Graughtsman, +3 from Gramarist, +2 from Wis, +3 Skill focus, taking 20)
Chassis Con = 22

Chassis: +8 BAB, +6 Fort, +6 Ref, +6 Will, 8d12+(6*8) HP [67 to 144], 3 feats

Gramarist: +5 BAB, +6 Fort, +3 Ref, +9 Will, 12d6+(12*2) HP [41 to 96], 5 feats

Dwarf Fighter: +12 BAB, +8 Fort, +4 Ref, +4 Will, 12d10+(12*3) HP [57 to 156], 5 feats, 7 fighter feats


Adding HD is not sufficient, especially since you're limited to adding 10 HD total.

[Cipher Stars]

Every further preparation of this principle can add 2,000 lbs of carrying capacity to a portal fixed in space. If it is torn from its reference with a Strength check or from overburden, a semi-space collapses permanently.

A semi-space can be at most 2ft. by 2ft. by 2ft. Unlike most principles, you cannot prepare this principle multiple times in order to create larger spaces.

That must be a really dense 2ftx2ftx2ft cube to ever need to prepare it multiple times.



It provides partial concealment (20% miss chance) to a creature the size of the portal or up to one size category larger. Creatures smaller than the portal can use it for total concealment (50% miss chance).

If the portal is always 2ftx2ft, when is this ever going to be relevant? (I mean that in a nice inquisitive way, not an antagonizing way)



I feel like I've read bucketloads now, but I really still don't get this thread. I see the ideas, I have a sense of whats going on, but I don't understand all the references and all that.
It feels like I'm missing things, but I've read quite a lot already... :smallannoyed:
Such as references to circuits and ebbs, or referencing Gramarie as though it's some substance to be used and expended as if it were coin or some pile of ore.

[Draken]

Just a a nitpick, your Str and Dex for the chassis is wrong. The sum of the two abilities has to be "twice the constitution, meaning a total of 40 here. For 26 Str and 14 Dex.

Chassis' are too frail as a whole, however. I would think that a way to increase their HD is in order.

[Qwertystop]

That must be a really dense 2ftx2ftx2ft cube to ever need to prepare it multiple times.




If the portal is always 2ftx2ft, when is this ever going to be relevant? (I mean that in a nice inquisitive way, not an antagonizing way)



I feel like I've read bucketloads now, but I really still don't get this thread. I see the ideas, I have a sense of whats going on, but I don't understand all the references and all that.
It feels like I'm missing things, but I've read quite a lot already... :smallannoyed:
Such as references to circuits and ebbs, or referencing Gramarie as though it's some substance to be used and expended as if it were coin or some pile of ore.

I can answer some of this:
The weight limit is on force applied to a fixed-in-space (that is, floating in the air) portal from the outside. Such as if someone decided to hang something over the lip of it.

A 2'x2' square is big enough to nearly cover a halfling if he stoops a bit, or if it's placed corner-down and he's in the middle. So full concealment to Small creatures, partial to Medium, and that's without really crouching down or otherwise really trying to take cover. Seems relevant to me.

Circuits are explained in Heuristicism. Ebbs are explained in eldrikinetics. I'm still not sure what WoodOut transformers are for, though, since it seems a circuit can do the exact same job.

Gramarie would basically mean the same thing as "technology". The things you make with principles are gramarie; alternately, the principles themselves are.

[Cipher Stars]

So how the Kringle do these bubbles work? And why do they take so long to scale?
You have to prepare eight times to increase the size of a bubble by one? (5ft+5ft), then the way it scales is more confusing than a blue-nose Rudolf... Taking one hundred and twenty five preparations just to make a 25ft bubble?
That's almost six days, which might not be all that much for the effect but the point is I can't see any logic behind the scaling method. If I wanted to make like a 100ft bubble, I can't find any way to scale it except to double the number of preparations for each 5ft, which is inaccurate since the way the examples scale doesn't seem to double but is in fact more then double, or less then double.

Do all these preparations need to be consecutive? Or can you extend bubble size at any time? Working nonstop just to increase the bubble to 10ft would be a pain in the arse for anyone, let alone 15+ feet...

I don't mean, if I sound like such, to be negative. I just want to know what's going on, so I could scale higher than the table provides.

[Amechra]

Take the cube of the number of 5' increments.

1- 1
2- 8
3- 27
4- 64
5-125

Your 100' bubble would take 8000 preparations.

That's only just under a year of constant working!

Unless you get, like, 19 grammarists to help you work; for larger projects, you simply make a buncha blueprints (or set up a holisticism factory) and hand 'em out to less experienced people with more time on their hands.

[Arcanist]

Unless you get, like, 19 grammarists to help you work; for larger projects, you simply make a buncha blueprints (or set up a holisticism factory) and hand 'em out to less experienced people with more time on their hands.

Not cost effective. Better create a bunch of Instincted Chassi to do the labor for free. :smallamused:

[Anecronwashere]

Or just set up a bubble-making factory

Using HEUR302 a bunch of times in the same circuit (with an EI factory manager).
1. Make any item (like a SilverIn or a Semispace) using HEUR302
2. Make a circuit (HEUR101) using HEUR302
3. Expand the bubble with multiple HEUR101 set HEUR302s

With an EI in charge of HEUR302-a and HEUR101-a in a different spot to the EI in charge of HEUR101-b+ you can have have them sent to multiple expansion points (step 1-2 makes a circuit, step 3 expands it but takes more time. So having multiple places where step3 takes place means multiple bubbles being made)

Optional:
4. Fill the circuit with whatever you want it to actually do
5. HUER302-c set to use HEUR328 on the completed circuit

[Anecronwashere]

Fun challenge: What is the lowest level team of Gramarist that can make a space-worthy ship?
Assuming access to every Principle its possible to qualify for because its a Team

What Principles would be needed

[Amechra]

Not cost effective. Better create a bunch of Instincted Chassi to do the labor for free. :smallamused:

Now now, just tryin' to ease our friend in here.

[Anecronwashere]

Does anyone else find it funny that you can stockpile up to 3600 Blueprints and get them all done in 30 minutes?
Provided they are Bac-level

Spectoconstruction specifies untrained human laborers.
Bac-level Blueprints say that Readers are minimum untrained
Ergo...:smallamused:

[Arcanist]

Fun challenge: What is the lowest level team of Gramarist that can make a space-worthy ship?
Assuming access to every Principle its possible to qualify for because its a Team

What Principles would be needed

You need Polarcane Geometry, Intro to Yggdratecture, and Intro to Kalediomantics, Unearthly Color, Intro to Heuristicism and finally Nonstatic Instruction and you need to be a Dreamason (so you need to be level 9, but there are more methods of space travel, but I'll discuss that later).

Make a Semi-Space bound to an object, tether a Gravity Flux to the same object, connect a Heuristicism circuit to the Flux while inside the Semi-Space (Rabbit Hole), Give the Circuit a Nonstatic Instruction (to be used as a control panel), then create 4 Kalediomantic doors out of all the filters you have access to. and then put them in front of the Semi-Spaces entrance.

When you want to fly, give the instruction to make gravity in any direction you wish. According to a certain Sage ruling objects fall at 500ft per round meaning that you can travel at 500ft per round.


Now now, just tryin' to ease our friend in here.

Meh, just saying! :smalltongue:


Does anyone else find it funny that you can stockpile up to 3600 Blueprints and get them all done in 30 minutes?
Provided they are Bac-level

Spectoconstruction specifies untrained human laborers.
Bac-level Blueprints say that Readers are minimum untrained
Ergo...:smallamused:

This does give me an idea for how I want to create the Cybermen :smallamused: (If anyone is familiar with the Cybermen, then you understand how difficult and annoying it is to make them out of a BIOY Chassi).

[Proud Tortoise]

What do you use a wood transformer for?:smallconfused:

[Morcleon]

What do you use a wood transformer for?:smallconfused:

Transferring ebbs in and out of Ins and Outs, as well as other, non-circuit things.

[Proud Tortoise]

But you can attach a transformer directly to a heuristical circuit.

[Morcleon]

But you can attach a transformer directly to a heuristical circuit.

Not through a semi-space (unless you have Rabbit Hole). It can also be used for things that can't be attached to a circuit, such as orichalcum.

[Arcanist]

Not through a semi-space (unless you have Rabbit Hole).

And this is why the Dreamason is one of the single best prestige classes for a Gramarist who wants to perform Ebb efficient Space Travel :smallwink:

[Morcleon]

And this is why the Dreamason is one of the single best prestige classes for a Gramarist who wants to perform Ebb efficient Space Travel :smallwink:

Of course it is! It also allows space-efficient power generators. :smallbiggrin:

[Anecronwashere]

Rabbit Hole is broken though. Something I really like :smallbiggrin:
It doesn't specify that it stops after the first, just that if it ever enters a Semispace it will expand from the entrance the size of the original bubble.
So whenever it hits the next Semispace it will spread through that the same size as the original bubble.
And so on and so forth

So it will totally fill an entire Semispace network with 1 EI.
Thus allowing SemiSpace factories and multi-Generators without making immense Demiplane SemiSpaces.
And improves those too because you can transport the finished product out easier because 1 EI is controlling it all

[Milo v3]

Here is a race I made with Biollurgy (With some added advancement rules so that it creates the right monster), I'm not sure on what the LA should be for the Ur-Kourman or the CR of either:


Ur-Kourman Statistics
Medium Aberration (Aquatic)
HD: 1d8 + 5 (13 HP)
Init: +9
Speed: 30 ft., swim 30 ft.
AC: 19 (+9 Dex), Touch 19, Flatfooted 10
BAB/Grapple: +0/+2
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Attack: Tentacles +4 melee (1d6+5; plus Thrall)
Full Attack: Tentacles +4 melee (1d6+5; Thrall)
Special Attacks: Eldritch Tendril, Thrall
Special Qualities: Amphibious, Darkvision 60 ft., Eldritch Mind, Hardness 2, Regeneration 1, Telepathy 200 ft.
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +9, Will +2
Abilities: Str 14 (+2), Dex 28 (+9), Con 21 (+5), Int 10 (+0), Wis 10 (+0), Cha 10 (+0)
Skills: Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 (+2), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 2 (+2), Heal 2 (+4), Stealth 1 (+10), Survival 0 (+2), Swim 0 (+10)
Feats: Self-Sufficient
Environment: Any Underdark.
Organisation: City
Challenge Rating: ?
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Any
Advancement: See Below

Kourman stand at a height of five and a half feet tall, with dark azure flesh. They have lithe bodies with a humanoid build. A thin regenerative liquid drips from their dark flesh, leaving them constantly slimy, though intense heat dries this chemical from their skin. From a glace most notice their faces lack mouths, but they actually have a concealed mouth. At their will, a Kourman can split the lower sections of his face vertically. This reveals their squid-like beak mouth in the centre, and a collection of tendrils on both sides which can emit electrical signals.

Kourman can breathe oxygen from the air or in water, which is converted into water within their bodies. This means they don’t need to drink water to survive. Any excess water is mixed with an enzyme to produce a regenerative slime. The Kourman diet consists of feeding on the electrical impulses in the brains of creatures.

At any stage in their life, a Kourman can decide to reproduce. The child gestates in the Kourman’s womb for nine months. While they don’t require another to reproduce, Kourman often randomise the genetic information of their spawn transmitting electrical signals through their tentacles with other Kourman.

They are masters of gramarie, which they use to produce their marvellous cities in the Underdark. Despite this power; they instinctively collect thralls and servants, though they often convert them into biostructure to fuel their research.

All Kourman follow them instruction of an intangible sentience known as the True Mind. The True Mind is older than the Kourman species, and its agenda is unknown.

Eldritch Mind (Ex): The Kourman mindset is a one of constant thought, filled with unending urges. These urges can be resisted with sufficient will power, requiring a Will Save (DC 30). The instincts of the Kourman people are the following:
Do as the True Mind commands
Produce more Kourman
Survive
Seek Evolution
Collect Thralls
Eat brains
Protect Knowledge
Learn Gramarie
Like Water
Beware Surface

In addition the eternal thought stops Kourman from ever sleeping, though they can go unconscious.

Eldritch Tendril (Sp): The electricity discharged by the tendrils of a Kourman create confusion in the minds of those nearby. This bestows a +2 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls for the Tentacle attack. These bonuses have been applied to the statistics above.

Regeneration (Ex): The regeneration of a Kourman is bypassed by fire damage.

Thrall (Sp): When the Kourman succeeds on an attack with it’s tentacle attack the target must make a Will save (12 + Charisma Modifier) or be affected by a charm monster effect at a caster level equal to 10.

Skills: Kourman can take 10 on Swim checks to perform special actions, even if stress or distraction would normally prevent them from doing so. Kourman gain a +8 racial bonus on these Swim checks.

Kourman as a Playable Race
+4 Str, +18 Dex, +10 Con
Aberration (Aquatic)
Medium Size
A Kourman’s base speed is 30 ft., and possesses a 30ft. swim speed
Darkvision out to 60 ft.
Racial Hit Dice: A Kourman begins with one level of aberration, which provide 1d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +0, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +0, Ref +0, and Will +2.
Racial Skills: A Kourman’s aberration levels give it skill points equal to 4 * (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Heal and Knowledge (All taken individually).
Racial Feats: A Kourman’s aberration levels give it a single feat.
Natural Weapons: Tentacle (1d6)
Special Attacks (see above): Eldritch Tendril, Thrall
Special Qualities (see above): Amphibious, Darkvision 60 ft., Eldritch Mind, Regeneration 1, Telepathy 200 ft.
Automatic Languages: Common.
Favored Class: Evolutionist.
Level adjustment: +?.
Adult Age: 15
Middle Age: 30
Old Age: 45
Venerable Age: 61
Maximum Age: 61+1d6
Special Advancement: A players Kourman must follow the special advancement rules detailed above.

Standard Kourman Statistics
Medium Aberration (Aquatic)
HD: 5d8 + 25 (47 HP)
Init: +9
Speed: 30 ft., swim 30 ft.
AC: 22 (+9 Dex, +3 Natural), Touch 19, Flatfooted 12
BAB/Grapple: +4/+7
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Attack: Tentacles +9 melee (1d8+5 + 1d6 electricity; plus Constrict, Improved Grab and Thrall)
Full Attack: Tentacles +9 melee (1d8+5 + 1d6 electricity; Constrict, Improved Grab and Thrall)
Special Attacks: Constrict, Eldritch Tendril, Improved Grab, Psi-Like Abilities, Thrall
Special Qualities: Amphibious, Darkvision 60 ft., Eldritch Mind, Electricity Resistance 5, Hardness 2, Regeneration 1, Researched Knowledge, Telepathy 200 ft.
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +10, Will +6
Abilities: Str 14 (+2), Dex 28 (+9), Con 21 (+5), Int 13 (+1), Wis 11 (+0), Cha 10 (+0)
Skills: Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 6 (+9), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 2 (+5), Heal 5 (+10), Intimidate 0 (+2), Stealth 2 (+11), Survival 0 (+3), Swim 0 (+10)
Feats: Great Changer, Improved Unarmed StrikeB, Self-Sufficient
Environment: Any Underdark.
Organisation: City
Challenge Rating: ?
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Any
Advancement: See Below

A standard Kourman possess 4 levels of Evolutionist.

Constrict (Ex): Whenever the Kourman wins a grapple check, he deals damage equal to that of his tentacles attack.

Eldritch Mind (Ex): The Kourman mindset is a one of constant thought, filled with unending urges. These urges can be resisted with sufficient will power, requiring a Will Save (DC 30). The instincts of the Kourman people are the following:
Do as the True Mind commands
Produce more Kourman
Survive
Seek Evolution
Collect Thralls
Eat brains
Protect Knowledge
Learn Gramarie
Like Water
Beware Surface

In addition the eternal thought stops Kourman from ever sleeping, though they can go unconscious.

Eldritch Tendril (Sp): The electricity discharged by the tendrils of a Kourman create confusion in the minds of those nearby. This bestows a +2 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls for the Tentacle attack and the attack deals an additional +1d6 points of electricity damage. These bonuses have been applied to the statistics above.

Improved Grab (Ex): Whenever the Kourman hits a creature at least small size with his tentacles, he can attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Psi-Like Abilities (Ps): At Will – Detect Psionics, Detect Thoughts; 3/Day – Far Hand, Telempathic Projection. Manifester Level 6.

Regeneration (Ex): The regeneration of a Kourman is bypassed by fire damage.

Researched Knowledge (Ex): Kourman gain a +4 bonus on all knowledge checks made to discern information about a creature because of their experiments.

Thrall (Sp): When the Kourman succeeds on an attack with it’s tentacle attack the target must make a Will save (12 + Charisma Modifier) or be affected by a charm monster effect at a caster level equal to 10.

Skills: Kourman can take 10 on Swim checks to perform special actions, even if stress or distraction would normally prevent them from doing so. Kourman gain a +8 racial bonus on these Swim checks.

Special Advancement
The statistics given here are the base statistics of the race upon reaching adulthood. Afterwards they start to evolve and their true abilities appear. The first four levels a Kourman gains after its first HD must be from the Evolutionist Class with the following mutations selected:

Level One Evolutionist: Evolve Combat Instinct, Superior Cognizance, Improved Grab, Constrict, Psi-Like Ability (Far Hand).
Level Two Evolutionist: Detect Psionics, Natural Armour, Energy Resistance (Electricity).
Level Three Evolutionist: Evolve Will, Evolve Combat Instinct, Detect Thoughts.
Level Four Evolutionist: Superior Cognizance, Psi-Like Ability (Telempathic Projection), Psychic Enhancement.

Also at 3 HD, they must take the Great Changer Feat and gain the Elemental Attack (Electricity) and Superior Instinct Mutations. At the same level, the Kourman must take the Dire Body Teratomorph.

After the above is followed, the Kourman can advance via class levels or by HD. Every additional 5 aberration levels increases the Kourman’s size category.

[Cipher Stars]

Is there any way to get two YGGD priciples... by 4th level XD? Or at 5th level, just generally with 4 or less Gramarist levels.

[Arcanist]

Is there any way to get two YGGD priciples... by 4th level XD? Or at 5th level, just generally with 4 or less Gramarist levels.

It is impossible (as presented) to have 2 of any discipline since you need to be 7th level to learn Magisterial and the earliest you can have 2 of any discipline would be 1 Bacc and 1 Magi.

On a side note: I'm contemplating a Blueprint for an infinite power generator that uses the sun, some ice cubes, a semi-space and a Dreamason. :smallamused:

(Hmm... Might need an Arcanodynamics specialist AND a Dreamason...)

[Anecronwashere]

Why would you want infinite power generation? Just set up GI/SO squares

Right, so i'm working on a Gramarie Factory in a week (assuming 6 hours downtime to do other stuff and no sleep because Construct) but I'm kind of stuck.
I need a way to carry the True Creationed materials down a conveyor belt or something but I'm just not coming up with anything.
Can Orthogonal Engines be controlled by EIs?


Also I think I solved the deforestation and weight problem for the bigger Engines.
True Creation SilverOuts.

The caster creates a nonmagical, unattended object of any sort of matter. Items created are permanent and cannot be negated by dispelling magics or negating powers. For all intents and purposes, these items are completely real. The volume of the item created cannot exceed 1 cubic foot per caster level.
Unlike the items brought into being by the lower-level spells minor creation and major creation, objects created by the casting of true creation can be used as material components.

Buy a Scroll of it and cast into a SilverOut and then cast on a bunch of SilverOuts being prepared (though you need a schmuck or schmucks to drain XP from)
Then set it onto a circuit with an EI set to cast True Creation: Wood at CL16
It means indefinite movement at max speed for 16 minutes /number of engines before needing to cast again
So for 1 Engine that's 16 minutes. For 16 Engines its every minute. For 8 Engines that's every 2 minutes.
Keep a stockpile of 5* Number of Engines in reserve with the EI set to channel 8 Ebbs into the SilverOut whenever it goes below that number
So if for some reason your Silvers stop working you have 5 minutes to fix the problem before stalling completely (The last minute might be slower depending on numbers)

8Ebbs/16 minutes is better than 6Ebbs/round by 120x (ie you spend 120x more Ebbs using the other way than this one)

[Arcanist]

Why would you want infinite power generation? Just set up GI/SO squares

Because those:

1. Take up more space then they are worth
2. Don't generate as much power as I'm thinking about/require.

I'm thinking about a method for creating a multi-piece infinite power generator. Capable of creating and powering an entire city (Platinum or otherwise) with very little effort and even allowing it to be mobile (Ascending, Descending, Space Travel, Planar Travel, or any combination, or all of them) if so desired. :smallsmile:



Blueprint Name: Solar Sailor
Principles Required: ALCH 101, ARCD 101, ARCD 350, HEUR 101, HEUR 266, YGGD 101, YGGD 212, YGGD 241.
Prestige Classes: Dreamason and a 14th level Arcanodynamic Specialist, 9th (OR 2 7th) level Yggdratecture Specialist.

Alright, so we all know our friend the Sun, right? Well! I have recently been interested in harvesting our friend, the Sun's heat for a power source. At it's Core, the Sun that our planet orbits radiates at approximately 15 million degrees Centigrade all day, everyday, until it converts into it's red giant phase (after that... DAYUM...)

Anyway! First, we take a cubic foot of Ice. Using ALCH 101, we increase the Ice's melting point beyond the temperature that the Ice is most likely to experience at the Heart of the Sun. You can perform this via a Super-Charged Aid Another Diplomacy if you so desire. (Call it a "Research Team")

Then you create a Semi-space and tether it to a random object (let's pretend it is Fez). This Object, also has it's heat durability increased equal to the Ice. Make sure the Semi-Space is smaller then 1 cubic foot so that the Ice can't fit inside of it. Now using Rabbit Hole, the Semi-Space can now have Heuristicism Bubbles pass through it.

Now make the Semi-Space an Incongruous Pathway connecting to a place I'd like to refer to as "Curie" which has a WoodOut on the other side which can connect to whatever you desire that requires ebbs.

Now connect the IceIn to the Object with the Semi-Space and create a Heuristicism bubble that passes through to the WoodOut. Now tether a Gravity Flux to it (the Object) and direct it to travel towards the Sun. Also connect an Unorthodox Trigger to tell it to "Deactivate the Flux once it is surrounded by 15 million degrees centigrade." or something like that.

The Object Travels towards the Sun, arrives, is surrounded by 15 million degrees of raw heat generating a grand total of 1,499,998 per round. which allows you to power anything you desire back on your home planet through the Semi-Space.

For the record, the Curie is a Doomsday device I'm plotting. It's supposed to covers all 38 sextillion cubic feet of the Earth and just blast it out of existence... Unfortunately even The Solar Sailor doesn't gather enough Ebbs for that (I believe it would require a Quadrillion Ebbs, Pardon, it's 3am while I'm writing this.)

... Ah well... When Men dream, God's laugh :smallsigh:

[Anecronwashere]

Roughly how high a diplomacy score would you need to make Ice's melting point HIGHER THAN THE SUN!

Seriously, dayum that's high


And how is a 15ft x 15ft x 5ft too big?
Or a 15ft x 15ft x 15ft cube (which is worth slightly more than 3 squares)

Making daylight (using the Daylight spell) costs 3 Ebbs (its a level3 spell) and earns 3*26 Ebbs/round
Assuming CL5 it lasts 50 minutes before needing a refresh of 3 Ebbs. Bump that up by 1 CL just for ease of math.

Set up a Wood with a 10ft bubble (prepared 8 times) with a Circuit (again prepared 8 times) and an EI on a far corner you can have 4 for the price of 1 Wood/Circuit/EI

78 /round /generator
780 /minute /generator
46,797 /hour /generator

Thats plenty for most non-doomsday devices.
Also remember that your UMD check for an IceIn has to be 14,999,980 because that is the max it can convert in any one round.

[Arcanist]

Roughly how high a diplomacy score would you need to make Ice's melting point HIGHER THAN THE SUN!

Seriously, dayum that's high

Hey! When people want to burn the world to ash, we figure a way out. You need a Diplomacy check of roughly 150 million to even get 15 million as an option (roughly 75 million participants). You need a MASSIVE research team for this, but honestly? I'd just MAKE the research team out of BIOY Chassi. I chose not to include that in the construction because I figured it went without saying that this requires ass backwards amount of work :smalltongue:

I understand that there are easier ways to do this, but I am just offering a single example for going about this method.



78 /round /generator
780 /minute /generator
46,797 /hour /generator

Thats plenty for most non-doomsday devices.

Bah... To slow for my taste...


Also remember that your UMD check for an IceIn has to be 14,999,980 because that is the max it can convert in any one round.

That Research Team never vanishes (Unless you wanna donate them to your Geoccultism buddies) :smalltongue:

[Necroticplague]

Roughly how high a diplomacy score would you need to make Ice's melting point HIGHER THAN THE SUN!

Seriously, dayum that's high

Not really, since the point of ice is that keeps the ambient temperature at 20 degrees at most, or lower if its lower when the icein is set up. It would make the buble that contains it a safe little bubble of room-temperature (or maybe a bit colder) in the middle of the burning sun. So the highest your check would have to be is 20 on alchemetry to modify its melting temperature that much.

[Anecronwashere]

Really Geocultist and Eldrikinetic Specialists are only barely Gramarists.
Why would I donate my Biollurgy creations to them?


78/Round /setup is GREAT for a self-perputating generator.
You need a Generator, a Factory for more Generators and a Demiplane.
(this isnt a full Blueprint writeup cause a) Im lazy and b) I haven't got all the details for my factories yet)
Build the Generator I mentioned up ^^, then a Semispace (expanded to allow a human-sized creature to walk through) with Incongruous Pathways to the Factory.
Then you need the following: (Note this is the finished self-sustaining product smaller copies can be made)
26* SilverOut: True Creation (Gold) CL16 (thats the minimum CL)
26* 16* 60* HUER302 GoldIn
SilverOut: True Creation (Silver) CL16
2* SilverOut: Daylight CL6 (1 above minimum)
60* 16* HUER302 SilverOut
SilverOut: True Creation (Wood) CL 16
60* 16* *2 HUER302 Wood
60* 16* *2 HUER302 Circuit
60* 16* /4 HUER302 Exotic Intelligence
Circuit prepared enough to fill the whole factory and an EI attached (or multiple Circuit/EIs connected to fill the whole thing)

Have the EIs send in 8 Ebbs to SilverOut: True Creation (Silver) when there is no Silver excluding SilverOuts in the Factory
Have the EIs send in 8 Ebbs to SilverOut: True Creation (Gold) when there is no Gold excluding GoldIns in the Factory
Have the EIs send in 8 Ebbs to SilverOut: True Creation (Wood) when there is no Silver excluding WoodIns and WoodOuts in the Factory

Have some Biollurgy Instinctual creatures to walk through the Semispace, collect the GoldIn/SilverOut and assemble them into the cube formation around the Wood/Circuits

Now that isnt the fastest aggregation rate (you would need 600* not 60* to maximise the potential SilverOut production) nor is it completed (you need a second Semispace to funnel out the unneeded Ebbs into the main power so you can use it for other projects)
But you end up with 960 extra generators an hour taking up 35ft * 35ft * 15ft for every 4 Generators
Meaning +74,880 Ebbs /round every hour accumulative.


Now do you think its not enough? :smallamused:

[Arcanist]

Not really, since the point of ice is that keeps the ambient temperature at 20 degrees at most, or lower if its lower when the icein is set up. It would make the buble that contains it a safe little bubble of room-temperature (or maybe a bit colder) in the middle of the burning sun. So the highest your check would have to be is 20 on alchemetry to modify its melting temperature that much.

AUGH! I knew I was forgetting something! That totally changes things :smallsmile:


Really Geocultist and Eldrikinetic Specialists are only barely Gramarists.
Why would I donate my Biollurgy creations to them?

I wouldn't say that exactly. I actually like Eldrikinetics, however I acknowledge that it's not precisely the best method of space travel or long term ascension based projects.

In fact, at the moment I am torn between Alchemetry, Heuristicism, Eldrikinetics and Yggdratecture as my favorite discipline.

I like Alchemetry because I'm curious about exploring the rest of the periodic table since Kellus only gave us 8 to work with and to ascend :smallamused:

I like Heuristicism, because it is simply the easiest to work with. Unfortunately Dreamason as written is impossible to get into without wasting a feat or dipping a level in a Psionic class, but yeah. It's pretty neat to imagine the power and potential. :smallsmile:

Eldrikinetics and Yggdratecture pretty much go hand-in-hand as the Traveler disciplines and usually, they involve the use of any of the above disciplines :smallsmile:



78/Round /setup is GREAT for a self-perputating generator.
You need a Generator, a Factory for more Generators and a Demiplane.
(this isnt a full Blueprint writeup cause a) Im lazy and b) I haven't got all the details for my factories yet)
Build the Generator I mentioned up ^^, then a Semispace (expanded to allow a human-sized creature to walk through) with Incongruous Pathways to the Factory.
Then you need the following: (Note this is the finished self-sustaining product smaller copies can be made)
26* SilverOut: True Creation (Gold) CL16 (thats the minimum CL)
26* 16* 60* HUER302 GoldIn
SilverOut: True Creation (Silver) CL16
2* SilverOut: Daylight CL6 (1 above minimum)
60* 16* HUER302 SilverOut
SilverOut: True Creation (Wood) CL 16
60* 16* *2 HUER302 Wood
60* 16* *2 HUER302 Circuit
60* 16* /4 HUER302 Exotic Intelligence
Circuit prepared enough to fill the whole factory and an EI attached (or multiple Circuit/EIs connected to fill the whole thing)

Have the EIs send in 8 Ebbs to SilverOut: True Creation (Silver) when there is no Silver excluding SilverOuts in the Factory
Have the EIs send in 8 Ebbs to SilverOut: True Creation (Gold) when there is no Gold excluding GoldIns in the Factory
Have the EIs send in 8 Ebbs to SilverOut: True Creation (Wood) when there is no Silver excluding WoodIns and WoodOuts in the Factory

Have some Biollurgy Instinctual creatures to walk through the Semispace, collect the GoldIn/SilverOut and assemble them into the cube formation around the Wood/Circuits

Now that isnt the fastest aggregation rate (you would need 600* not 60* to maximise the potential SilverOut production) nor is it completed (you need a second Semispace to funnel out the unneeded Ebbs into the main power so you can use it for other projects)
But you end up with 960 extra generators an hour taking up 35ft * 35ft * 15ft for every 4 Generators
Meaning +74,880 Ebbs /round every hour accumulative.


Now do you think its not enough? :smallamused:

Hmmmm... It's creative, it's edgy, I like it. Make it into a Blueprint and then lemme read it over in that format and we should be crystal.

SPEAKING OF CRYSTAL! Has anyone figured anything out using the Crystal Transformer that doesn't use a Silver Transformer? :smalltongue:

[Anecronwashere]

It allows an Exotic Intelligence to talk and gives orders with a CrystalOut

And a CrystalIn is a quick Silence effect by expanding the bubble to 10ftradius, attaching to an Arrow (or using Dreamason's Rabbit Hole and a Semispace linked to that arrow if you cant get a cubic foot of crystal attached to an arrow) as a way to stop spellcasters as a Ranger
Its also reusable by recovering the Arrow


Eldrikinetics are barely Gramarists because their Principles don't require skill checks. They are the lazy way of Gramarie.
It's almost like using a GoldOut instead of a SilverOut (except when scared of Vampires). Inefficient and eyeroll worthy. Everyone knows a Daylight spell is at minimum a saving of 1,997 Ebbs (4 Ebbs to produce daylight/round compared to 3 Ebbs/50 minutes)


Also, I wish we could use SilverOuts on Su abilities. It makes protections so much easier to create

[Hanuman]

BUG- Radiomantic negative levels currently appear to have no save DC.

Barefoot Gen (NSFW, Gore, Horrific and Disturbing)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfJZ6nwxD38

I've created a homebrew rule for sunmetal inspired by the fallout series, Kellus feel free to use or change it as you see fit:

Alternate Radiomantic Events:
Radiomantic Ghoulification-
Alternatively the DM may rule that when sunmetal would slay a creature it has a chance to turn them into a necropolitan (or zombification), using the radiomantic event as the ritual, the hellfire damage from a radiomantic event will damage the necropolitan's body as if it were an object during the initial death.
Finding Shelter-
Hellfire damage does not bypass shelter or even complete cover unless it is within 1/8 mile of the source. All hellfire damage will attempt to destroy cover and re-apply damage to what was behind it if the cover is destroyed.
Brightest Thing Ever-
At the start of a radiomantic event a flash of light is emitted permanently blinding all observers who fails a DC15 reflex save to shield their eyes. After that point this counts as a 10,000x strength daylight spell for 10 rounds, overloading all light-collecting transformers exposed to it.
Shockwave-
Radiomantic events deal sonic damage in replacement of 20% of the hellfire damage, applied before it.

[Proud Tortoise]

Why is Geooccultism an option for players? The things it creates are stationary and require absurd amounts of metal to run.

What happens if two gravity fluxes intersect?

Can a biollurgical chassis gain tremorsense?

[Anecronwashere]

The same reason the ability to make the Internet is an option to players
Also some campaigns don't focus on kicking in doors and moving to bigger doors in the next kingdom over. Some deal with more intellectual fare where Geocultism could be better suited.
Also Gramarie is only a couple steps from being an NPC class without the NPC-prereq

For 2 Gravity Fluxes, if they are opposing then they cancel. If they are not then they interact (Left Gravity and Right Gravity cancel so it's like there is no flux and Up Gravity + Left Gravity means diagonally up and to the left)

I think so but I haven't read through Biollurgy fully yet. Im sure there is a way


EDIT: Also Geocultism doesn't require absurd amounts of metal.
Just hook up a SilverOut of True Creation. 8Ebbs for 16 cubic feet

[thethird]

BUG- Radiomantic negative levels currently appear to have no save DC.

Barefoot Gen (NSFW, Gore, Horrific and Disturbing)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfJZ6nwxD38

That video made me cry remembering when I was at the Hiroshima Museum



Can a biollurgical chassis gain tremorsense?

A grammarist with BIOY: 340 can attach Sensitive Antennae (a 4th level graft) that grants tremorsense (60ft range).

[Volthawk]

Silver outputs annoy me, since tons of things that need to be dealt with are just reduced to "eh, just use a SilverOut with x spell".

[Anecronwashere]

But they make things soo much easier. :smallbiggrin:

[Nanoblack]

Silver outputs annoy me, since tons of things that need to be dealt with are just reduced to "eh, just use a SilverOut with x spell".

It would take far too long to include a grammaric option for every spell effect. Sure it kind of cheapens it, but there isn't really another option available that doesn't severely limit Grammarists as a whole.

[Draken]

EDIT: Also Geocultism doesn't require absurd amounts of metal.
Just hook up a SilverOut of True Creation. 8Ebbs for 16 cubic feet

I prefer Wall of Iron + Polymorph Any object SilverOuts for this. More Ebbs for each pair (14 vs 8, or just 6 if you want iron) but each pair does the job of five True Creation SilverOuts (40 ebbs) and it costs less to setup (50 gold material component for Wall of Iron vs likely much higher experience cost for True Creation).

Wall of Stone can be used in place of Wall of Iron too, WoS is one spell level (one ebb) lower and has no material component cost, but is useless for geoccultism without the PAO SilverOut.

[Amechra]

I'm still working on alternate SilverIn/Outs; Grammarie doesn't need to be able to do everything, after all.

It can already do a lot of really neat stuff without cheating; I really think we need some kind of alternative (hell, I was thinking that if you had it so you entered Invocations in there, using their ESL to determine how much they would cost, it would be kinda neat. Just have it so that the person activating it can place Personal invocations on themselves, and any Eldritch Essences that you put in can modify the output blast.)

[Anecronwashere]

I prefer Wall of Iron + Polymorph Any object SilverOuts for this. More Ebbs for each pair (14 vs 8, or just 6 if you want iron) but each pair does the job of five True Creation SilverOuts (40 ebbs) and it costs less to setup (50 gold material component for Wall of Iron vs likely much higher experience cost for True Creation).

Wall of Stone can be used in place of Wall of Iron too, WoS is one spell level (one ebb) lower and has no material component cost, but is useless for geoccultism without the PAO SilverOut.

Yes, but all you need is an army of XP Farmers and some Biollurgy to get as much XP as you want.
Though I will admit Wall of Iron does have its advantages in space saving and XP storing.


Anyway, how far along is the Internet project? I have a few ideas for it.
I'd need a slightly cheesy interpretation of Rabbit Hole and might get bogged down with multiple tabs

EDIT: For the alternate SilverOuts based on Warlock Invocations.
Each modifier to an Eldritch Blast is it's own SilverOut attached to the original. Turning it on or off is a Logical Decision.
Consecutive applications of modifiers must be placed onto the latest SilverOut, making a line of them.
If using two modifiers that would disqualify each other if used together then treat the oldest as applying first

[Arcanist]

Why is Geooccultism an option for players? The things it creates are stationary and require absurd amounts of metal to run.

Actually it goes off Density of the metal. To fuel this I would just hire a 7th level Alchemetry Specialist and have him make me Copper, melt it down and then I would use Preternatural Fluids to make the Coppers as dense as required using an Animated Chassi (the Aid another rules says nothing about the creatures helping needing to be sentient, just being able to make skill checks).



What happens if two gravity fluxes intersect?

The two bubbles interact accordingly. If Gravity Flux A is directing gravity to subjective Gravity Left and Gravity Flux B is directing gravity to subjective Gravity Right then an Object or person would be able to choose which direction they would prefer to go in.

For more information on this effect check out Subjective Directional Gravity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#subjectiveDirectionalGravity).

[Hanuman]

That video made me cry remembering when I was at the Hiroshima Museum
My body shook a bit in awe as I read up on the tsar bomba for the first time a few years ago.
The most powerful tested nuclear weapon:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Tsar_Bomba_Paris.png

3.5KM of pure fire, after that 35KM of complete destruction.

It can cause more than an 8.1 richter earthquake, break windows in every state in USA (besides alaska and hawaii), cause 3rd degree burns at 100KM, and cause a mushroom cloud 7 times higher than mt. everest and 40KM wide (enough to entirely engulf new-york within it's cloud alone).

And all of the above at only HALF it's total yield.

[Arcanist]

Epic Image of Epic-ness.

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/306/3/d/3d716c066efbe1644d95e2edb782c282-d4eszm2.jpg
"You will be upgraded."
Drawn by the wondrous and masterful paulhanley (http://paulhanley.deviantart.com/) Colored by charliekirchoff (http://charliekirchoff.deviantart.com/)



Blueprint: Cybermen
Principles: ALCH 101, ARCD 101, ARCD 204, BIOY 101, BIOY 228, BIOY 273, BIOY 381, HUER 101, HEUR 328
Prestige Class: 10th level Graughtsmen & 10th level Dreamason.

Cyber Unit Log #90784: The Reproduction of the Cybermen.

Cybermen are not created, such a creation can hardly be considered a true Cybermen. Instead for a Cybermen to be True, you must create destruction and proceed to be Upgraded to the next stage of existance.

First you must acquire an ample supply of Gold and Silver of at least 2 cubic feet for each material. It will then be enhanced by Basic Alchemetry Principle 101.

The Material will then be converted into a structure resembling the form of a Cybermen only to be animated as an Outsider with limited intelligence immediately after the Structure will be Circuited and the ability to act as an individual Cybermen as soon as the Exotic Intelligence possesses it usually taking up knowledge of Gramarie thereafter. During this process, the Cybermen is armed with a Silver Transformer directed Outwards to project a Magic Missile at 10th caster level and Shocking Grasp at the same caster level. Next the Cybermen power source for this weapon is created in the form of a Golden Transformer. The Transformer itself will then have a Continual Light source projected on to it as to generate the required ebbs to power it's weaponry.

The Cybermen have multiple variations of this process, however this particular process is used for creating standard Cybermen.

Assuming the Graughtsmen gets a 10 on the Heal check and is level 17 (+20 Heal), +3 competences bonus from specializing in Biollurgy, +2 circumstance for masterwork tools and you have a 35 in total on your Heal check. Making a Constitution of 17 which would double out to 34.

The Dreamason chooses the Alignment of the Exotic Intelligence. For a reference point I'll just make them Any Lawful. Assuming that the Dreamason is a college educated Hippie that realizes that he can't just smoke pot everyday his intelligence will be 18 at least.

Our stats for the Cybermen will be 20,14,17,18,18,18 just to make our Cybermen Strong enough to graple down the Doctor Chrononaut PC's.

Cybermen as Monsters


Cybermen Model 1085

Size/Type: Medium (Native) Outsider
Hit Dice: 1d8+3 (12 HP)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30ft (6 squares)
Armor Class: 12 (+2 Dexterity)
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+1
Attack: +6 Slam 1d6+6
Full Attack: +6 Slam 1d6+6
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Arcanodynamic Transformer (Magic Missile CL 10th), Arcanodynamic Transformer (Shocking Grasp CL 10th).
Special Qualities: Golden Transformer (Su), Exotic Intelligence (Su)
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +4, Wis +6
Abilities: Str 20, Dex, 14, Con 17, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 18
Skills: 48 Skill points.
Feats: 1 feat.
Environment: Mondas or Alternate Reality Prime
Organization: N/A
Challenge Rating: N/A
Treasure: N/A
Alignment: Any Lawful
Advancement: By Class level
Level Adjustment: +4

The creature that stands before you resembles a Warforged in it's structure and size, however something is different. It lacks any form of notable emotional response as it dictates it's commands to you...

Arcanodynamic Transformer (Su/Sp): As a Logical Decision the Exotic Intelligence inside the Cyberman frame can direct 1 ebb from the the Golden Transformer into either one of the Silver Transformers to power a Magic Missile casted at 10th caster level or a Shocking Grasp casted at 10th caster level. This can be performed as a Standard Action.

Golden Transformer (Su): The Golden Transformer generates 1 ebb of power each round to power the weapons on the Cyberman. Furthermore, More Ebbs are generated when more light is let into the Cyberman's Golden Transformer thus making them immune to all Light based spells. For more information on this effect examine the Golden transformer (In).

Exotic Intelligence (Su): The Primary brain of the Cyberman allows for 200 logical decisions to be made while in the Cyberman Frame. While an Exotic Intelligence that is inside of a Cyberman Frame is inside another bubble for a Heuristicism Circuit it can transfer from the Frame into the Bubble and perform normally from there. The Exotic Intelligence loses it's Physical ability scores while in this form.

Cybermen as PC's

+10 STR, +4 DEX, +7 CON, +8 INT, +8 WIS, +8 CHA.
Outsider (Native).
Medium Sized.
A Cyberman's base speed is 30ft.
Darkvision 60ft.
Proficient with all Simple and Martial Weapons.
Racial Hit Die: The Cyberman starts out with 1 level of Outsider, which provides 1d8, a BAB of +1, and a base saving throw of +2 Fort, Ref, and Will. The Cybermen may replace this HD with a single class level.
Racial Skills: The Cyberman's Outsider Hitdie provide it with Skill points equal to 8+Int Modifier *4.
Racial Feats: The Cybermen's 1 HD give it 1 feat.
Natural Weapons: Slam (1d6)
Special attacks: Arcanodynamic Transformers (Out)
Special Quality: Arcanodynamic Transformer (In), Exotic Intelligence
Automatic Language: Common
Favored Class: Gramarist (Graughtsmen)
Level Adjustment: +4


The Cybermen are built as an upgrade from the mundane existence of mortality. They do not age, they are created fully into adulthood after 9 months of production.

The Cybermen are property of BBC. I do not own or endorse them... Besides, the Daleks are totally superior in every way.

If anyone has any complaints or commentary or "That's against da rules!" for this blueprint hit me up, because I really want to get started on the Dalek.

[Omnicrat]

Epic Image of Epic-ness.

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/306/3/d/3d716c066efbe1644d95e2edb782c282-d4eszm2.jpg
"You will be upgraded."
Drawn by the wondrous and masterful paulhanley (http://paulhanley.deviantart.com/) Colored by charliekirchoff (http://charliekirchoff.deviantart.com/)



Assuming the Graughtsmen gets a 10 on the Heal check and is level 17 (+20 Heal), +3 competences bonus from specializing in Biollurgy, +2 circumstance for masterwork tools and you have a 35 in total on your Heal check. Making a Constitution of 17 which would double out to 34.

The Dreamason chooses the Alignment of the Exotic Intelligence. For a reference point I'll just make them Any Lawful. Assuming that the Dreamason is a college educated Hippie that realizes that he can't just smoke pot everyday his intelligence will be 18 at least.

Our stats for the Cybermen will be 20,14,17,18,18,18 just to make our Cybermen Strong enough to graple down the Doctor Chrononaut PC's.

Cybermen as Monsters


Cybermen as PC's

+10 STR, +4 DEX, +7 CON, +8 INT, +8 WIS, +8 CHA.
Outsider (Native).
Medium Sized.
A Cyberman's base speed is 30ft.
Darkvision 60ft.
Proficient with all Simple and Martial Weapons.
Racial Hit Die: The Cyberman starts out with 1 level of Outsider, which provides 1d8, a BAB of +1, and a base saving throw of +2 Fort, Ref, and Will. The Cybermen may replace this HD with a single class level.
Racial Skills: The Cyberman's Outsider Hitdie provide it with Skill points equal to 8+Int Modifier *4.
Racial Feats: The Cybermen's 1 HD give it 1 feat.
Natural Weapons: Slam (1d6)
Special attacks: Arcanodynamic Transformers (Out)
Special Quality: Arcanodynamic Transformer (In), Exotic Intelligence
Automatic Language: Common
Favored Class: Gramarist (Graughtsmen)
Level Adjustment: +1


The Cybermen are built as an upgrade from the mundane existence of mortality. They do not age, they are created fully into adulthood after 9 months of production.

The Cybermen are property of BBC. I do not own or endorse them... Besides, the Daleks are totally superior in every way.

If anyone has any complaints or commentary or "That's against da rules!" for this blueprint hit me up, because I really want to get started on the Dalek.

1) unless I'm wrong, silverouts can only have one spell in them at a time.
2) LA+1 only? With those ability bonuses? AND racial HD? ... I look forward to the races we get to plan in the campaign :smalltongue:. Seriously, way more than a +1. +6 or something just eyeballing it... (I have a tendency to over [or under for +1 and +2, but I don't think that really matters here] LA things so someone else should probably evaluate it)

[Necroticplague]

1) unless I'm wrong, silverouts can only have one spell in them at a time.


I was under the impression it had two silverouts, each of which had the separate spells.

[Arcanist]

2) LA+1 only? With those ability bonuses? AND racial HD? ... I look forward to the races we get to plan in the campaign :smalltongue:. Seriously, way more than a +1. +6 or something just eyeballing it... (I have a tendency to over [or under for +1 and +2, but I don't think that really matters here] LA things so someone else should probably evaluate it)

As they are written a sentient Biostructure is limited in it's LA.


A chassis has a Level Adjustment of +1 for a basic Medium-sized race that has a Heal check of 10, sentience, and three 1st or 2nd level grafts.

It is Medium Sized, has only a Heal check of 10 is sentient and has no grafts. By this logic it is a LA of +1. But yes, just eyeballing it, I would make it something a little Higher, perhaps LA +4 or +5 due to the way it interacts with the world at large.

The sheer fact it is an Outsider should make it a +1 LA.


I was under the impression it had two silverouts, each of which had the separate spells.

It does.

[Gideon Falcon]

So, would it be whiny of me to ask for some thoughts on the dementianeer? For starters, a better name? Also, have a potential epic feat.

Academic Minor [Epic]
Prerequisites: Two principles in the chosen discipline, cannot be a General specialist, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 24 ranks, 24 ranks in the chosen discipline's skill.
Benefit: Select a discipline of Gramarie other than your specialization. You may now learn additional principles from it as if you were a Generalist.

[Necroticplague]

So, would it be whiny of me to ask for some thoughts on the dementianeer? For starters, a better name?

Well, since you went asking...

You should state whether ozodrin and dementianeer levels stack for purposes of determining stomach size (more explicitely, since it is only done so very indirectly, by manifest form advancing features, including the stomach, which advances primary stomach).

You talk about you and your spawn being connected to a heuristic circuit, but HEUR only targets pieces of grammary, so may want to add something akin to the following in their, whether as its own clas feature or an addendum to HEUR (note:brackets indicating thing that aren't part of the actual text but me explaining why they're their):

Flesh as Iron: You, all features formed by you [for menacing manors, beast shaped, machines, those with spawn and puppets or the corrupting land feat], and all creatures that have features formed by you [because i remember there was a PRC that let you do that] may be included in a heuristic circuit as if the were a piece of grammary.

the GEOC ability interacts oddly with the way stomachs normally work: stomachs aren't normally made of squares, its just a sac that's as big as it has to be to contain what it does unless you have the Shaped Stomach augment. This occurs if you normally just swallow something and turn it into a pole, but in this case you're intending on that interaction, so you should be sure to address it. I think somehow making it so that when you "buy" terrain features, you simply keep track of how many squares you've bought, which you can then re-distribute whenever you re-assign form points. For example: you "buy" 20 squares worth of trees, then when you get a Shaped Stomach, you can place the trees where you want. Also, you might want to say what ,metal the default pole is, or if you get to choose, and if it's possible to change that decision later. [personally, I would go with you're stomach pole being an omni-pole you can use terrain features from any type within, but you have to pay for them using the appropriate metal, and without a baseline terrain, but that's just me]. Also, I totally understand not using my GEOC ability, it was horrifically big and complicated.

Also, just my 2 coppers once again, but the ALCH should possibly have an option (maybe gained later) for Flesh to have armor materials applied to them (though I admit, a lot of them wouldn't do anything, since skins don't have ACPs, weight categories, ASF, or MDB).

[Milo v3]

If it was created with a Heal roll of 10, then that cyberman should have a constitution of 12.


10/5+10=12.

This lowers it's stats considerably.

Also why give them so high intelligence scores, and thus wisdom and charisma scores? It just makes it more unplayable.

[Arcanist]

If it was created with a Heal roll of 10, then that cyberman should have a constitution of 12.

Rolled a Heal check of 10 (as in the d20 landed on a 10) and then adding the modifier into it from various sources (Ranks, Circumstance bonus, Competence bonus). I assumed that the maker has a Wisdom score of 10 so that doesn't even account for Modifier.

Seriously though, I'm nitpicking and arguing on a RAW level, I'd be right, but this is Homebrew so the intent can be noted and holds more strength then RAW.

...BUT! Like I said, a more appropriate LA for the Cybermen would be +4, +5 or +6. I'm a little against +4 or higher because then a Cyberman cannot create a Cybermen. Thoughts for or against a +3 LA? Might go +4 just because of Buy-Back variant?


Also why give them so high intelligence scores, and thus wisdom and charisma scores? It just makes it more unplayable.

The Cybermen possess an intelligence that dwarfs that of the average Human and mental stats that would be truly appropriate of that (12-13) would be an insult to the Cybermen.

The Cybermen were never truly meant to be playable. They were meant to be antagonist and are always destined to be antagonist (Unless they have a spin-off series where they are), however if I didn't do that they wouldn't be able to reproduce and would be forced to reproduce through Gramarie and only Gramarie.

[Milo v3]

I'm pretty sure the Heal roll refers to the result of the check, not the dice roll. Otherwise basing the LA off it doesn't make any sense.

[Kellus]

Hello people who like gramarie! Having had my hopes of RPG-Superstardom dashed against the uncaring rocks of Paizo's stony shore yet again, it's time to do some more work on gramarie! Expect new material shortly, as well as some long-overdue fixes!

[Anecronwashere]

Yay.
Please leave RabbitHole alone. We need it for making Skynet

[Amechra]

Would you like me to post my write-up for Silver Information transformers?

I mean, why burn books when you can use them to fuel the furnaces?

[Omnicrat]

If you're serious about removing the spells from silver transformers, we need more than just a new silver transformer, whatever that may be. As I see it, we need at least: positive energy, negative energy, nourishment, perception (sensory), emotion (set specific emotions into ins and outs [probably always outs] if you want [faithin powering joyout anyone?:smallbiggrin:]), and influence (like diplomacy or bluff, put enough ebbs in and you have a dominate effect [maybe thats what you're really using the faithin for...:smallamused:]). I think that's all that's specifically needed to replace spells.

Some nice stuff to also have would be information (which you said you had), matter (though that's probably a no), memory, destiny (not sure how it would work, and it would probably be too setting specific... which gives me an idea), fealty (again, not sure how it would work [and fealtyins would probably foment rebellion base on how soundins and lightins work]), or alignment (once more, not sure how it would work, maybe a mix of ebbs, people in the field, and level determine if your alignment gets alterd or absorbed depending on if its an out or in).

In this model, I think woodins should be retooled to to absorb spells and psionics as silverins, but not produce spells or powers in woodouts. In this model, you can even have higher level spells produce ebbs at the old (new) rate of spellins.

A problem is that I feel those first 6 should be basic and easily accessed, but that would require them to be planetary metals, which are in short supply. We could use silver and iron, and maybe ascended metals, but that puts them in at doctorate level, which is rather high.

Now, that idea I mentioned earlier, why not create some setting specific transformers that use the same material. That way we can have a bunch of interesting options, that would be too niche to be part of the main body. Faith should actually probably be one of these.

EDIT: Moved the last two in necessary up from would be nice to have. Said specifically doctorate level is rather high.

[davethebrave]

Hello people who like gramarie! Having had my hopes of RPG-Superstardom dashed against the uncaring rocks of Paizo's stony shore yet again, it's time to do some more work on gramarie! Expect new material shortly, as well as some long-overdue fixes!

You're lucky I just came back to this computer from the bathroom, or I would have needed a new change of pants.

[Arcanist]

Hello people who like gramarie! Having had my hopes of RPG-Superstardom dashed against the uncaring rocks of Paizo's stony shore yet again, it's time to do some more work on gramarie! Expect new material shortly, as well as some long-overdue fixes!

Eager to see your new work. Curious how the Asternomist class will work for already established methods of space travel :smallamused:

[Omnicrat]

Turns out minmax has been back up for at a week now.

[Arcanist]

Turns out minmax has been back up for at a week now.

Hadn't even noticed that.

[Byzantine]

Hello. I'm currently building a world where magitek has been lost. Rather, the race that used it disappeared, and their creations are destroying the world. This was recommended for building the main devices of the setting. For me, the main issue is that, since I don't have a bunch of time to dedicate to reading over the mechanics and working them together, I'm a bit.... stuck. Perhaps one of you might be willing to help?

The magitek itself is fluffed differently than gramarie (it's fluffed as truenaming, but that's a story for later), but I doubt that makes a difference in the mechanics. Other than size, which isn't much of an issue for the devices, since they are housed in large temples.

The device(s) in question are creations that drain magic from the surrounding area, in a constantly growing radius. The problem is that magic is the force of life in this setting, so this magic drain has begun killing the world and it's peoples. The drained magic is then sent, in beam form, to an as of yet undetermined location. Assume cross-planar sending if that factors in. The structure that houses the device is almost completely invulnerable.

Any suggestions on how this would be built?

[Anecronwashere]

Look at Silver Transformers
In order to do the magic-drain effect what you need is this:

1 generator to power the creation. This is easiest done with a SilverOut Transformer casting Daylight surrounded by GoldIn Transformers. And then make a bunch of those.
1 SilverIn. This will absorb any spells with Spell Resistance: Yes but that can easily be homebrewed away
a bunch of Hueristics 302 set to improve the SilverIn.

Then look at the bubble mechanics. Every hour /HUER302 you have had 1 preparation. It is a slow expansion that slows down even more the larger the area affected but adding more 302s should speed the process up

As to beaming the generated magic away, Puissance (the energy generated by the SilverIn) isn't really visible to the naked eyes and the easiest way to transport it is through a Yggr Semispace linked where you want it to go.

[Morcleon]

Hello. I'm currently building a world where magitek has been lost. Rather, the race that used it disappeared, and their creations are destroying the world. This was recommended for building the main devices of the setting. For me, the main issue is that, since I don't have a bunch of time to dedicate to reading over the mechanics and working them together, I'm a bit.... stuck. Perhaps one of you might be willing to help?

The magitek itself is fluffed differently than gramarie (it's fluffed as truenaming, but that's a story for later), but I doubt that makes a difference in the mechanics. Other than size, which isn't much of an issue for the devices, since they are housed in large temples.

The device(s) in question are creations that drain magic from the surrounding area, in a constantly growing radius. The problem is that magic is the force of life in this setting, so this magic drain has begun killing the world and it's peoples. The drained magic is then sent, in beam form, to an as of yet undetermined location. Assume cross-planar sending if that factors in. The structure that houses the device is almost completely invulnerable.

Any suggestions on how this would be built?

The magic drainage could potentially be a modified dreamcatcher EI. What exactly do you want the "drain" to have, mechanically? Would it be an AMF?

For the invulnerable part, create a normal wall of biostructure (created from metal), then cover it with an airtight, perfectly fitted shell of yellow filters. As yellow filters block metal from passing through them, and the filters allow for no movement (being perfectly fitted), the damaged biostructure has no place to move when damaged, rendering it essentially invulnerable to physical damage (still sorta vulnerable to disintegrate, though).

Energy damage can be taken care of through hardness increases and the alchemetrical modifications that increase the divisors for energy damage.

[Byzantine]

Look at Silver Transformers
In order to do the magic-drain effect what you need is this:

1 generator to power the creation. This is easiest done with a SilverOut Transformer casting Daylight surrounded by GoldIn Transformers. And then make a bunch of those.
1 SilverIn. This will absorb any spells with Spell Resistance: Yes but that can easily be homebrewed away
a bunch of Hueristics 302 set to improve the SilverIn.

Then look at the bubble mechanics. Every hour /HUER302 you have had 1 preparation. It is a slow expansion that slows down even more the larger the area affected but adding more 302s should speed the process up

As to beaming the generated magic away, Puissance (the energy generated by the SilverIn) isn't really visible to the naked eyes and the easiest way to transport it is through a Yggr Semispace linked where you want it to go.


The magic drainage could potentially be a modified dreamcatcher EI. What exactly do you want the "drain" to have, mechanically? Would it be an AMF?

For the invulnerable part, create a normal wall of biostructure (created from metal), then cover it with an airtight, perfectly fitted shell of yellow filters. As yellow filters block metal from passing through them, and the filters allow for no movement (being perfectly fitted), the damaged biostructure has no place to move when damaged, rendering it essentially invulnerable to physical damage (still sorta vulnerable to disintegrate, though).

Energy damage can be taken care of through hardness increases and the alchemetrical modifications that increase the divisors for energy damage.

Thank you for the quick responses!

As for what the drain does, ideally, it dampens, but does not completely eliminate magic. Considering the length of time that the devices have been running, the AMF would be miles or more wide, and I don't want any mages in groups to feel completely useless near them.

[Anecronwashere]

Well note that the SilverIn does not actually auto-drain magic. It forces an SR Save of 5+(Number of Principles in Arcanodynamics)
so depending on level could be SR15, 20, whatever

Homebrew so that it applies even to SR: No and you are set.
Every spell has a chance of failure. Weaker mages are shut down, strong masters of magic power through it only losing a spell if they make a mistake (like rolling a 1)

[Byzantine]

That sounds good to me. I'll keep open to others' ideas, but I'm glad that I at least have a start.

[Morcleon]

Thank you for the quick responses!

As for what the drain does, ideally, it dampens, but does not completely eliminate magic. Considering the length of time that the devices have been running, the AMF would be miles or more wide, and I don't want any mages in groups to feel completely useless near them.

Try taking a look at the impeded magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#impededMagic) and wild magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#wildMagic) planar traits. Impeded magic could probably have the DC increase, depending on the power level you expect.

You could also have a SilverOut that spreads a mana flux or magic miasma effect.

[Anecronwashere]

For everyone's Ebb needs I present:
The GoldenShadow Generator Mk1

Name: Golden Shadow Generator MK1
Use: Generation of 124,788 Ebbs /cycle /generator (208 /round, 12Ebb cycle cost)
Requirements: ARCD101, ARCD204, HUER101
Optional Upgrades: HUER328, YGGR101, YGGR241
Material Usage: 4x 1cf of Silver, 104x 1cf of Gold, 1cf of Wood, 360x 1cf of random unused material
Spell Usage: Daylight (CL5 minimum, CL6 recommended for math purposes)

How to:
Creating a SilverOut requires ARCD101
Creating a WoodIn requires ARCD101
Creating a GoldIn requires ARCD204
Creating a Circuit requires HUER101

1. Designate the area you are utilizing. This takes up a rectangle with the following dimensions: 35width x 35length x 15height
2. Starting in the corner of the Generator's area place in the centre of that 5*5 square a 1width x 1length x 2height block of material (Hereafter designated a Support Block).
3. Place a Support Block in 9 squares, forming a square of 15width x 15length.
4. On top of every Support Block place 1 GoldIn Principle set to draw light from that square (you should create an area of darkness totally filling the 15x15x5 area).
5. Place 2 Support Blocks on every GoldIn
6. Place 1 SilverOut: Daylight on the center Support Block then 1 GoldIn on each of them remaining 8 Support Blocks ringing the Silver
7. Place 2 Support Blocks on every GoldIn and SilverOut
8. Place a GoldIn on every Support Block
9. Repeat steps 2-9 starting from one of the other corners. If no other corners then proceed to Step10
10. Place 3 1/2 Support Blocks in the exact center of the Generator
11. Place 1 WoodIn that has been prepared to have a 15ft bubble on the Support Block in the center of the Generator
12. Create a Circuit centered on the WoodIn and prepare until it has a 15ft bubble

Recommended: (taken into account in calculations at the top, not taking recommendation may cause deviations in finished product)
1. Use a CL6 version of Daylight with 1hour duration. The default CL5 has a 50 minute duration that adds additional math steps and reduces efficiency (due to lowered times between cycles) by 12 Ebbs every 5 hours of runtime
2. Staggering the refresh rates between the 4 SilverOuts requires an expenditure of 3Ebbs /15 minutes in 1 round as opposed to 12Ebbs /60, this creates more fluctuations in grid energy levels but less of an impact allowing for greater leeway and usage of resources

Optional Upgrade 1: Link to the grid
Creating a Semispace Pathway requires 2 preparations of YGGR101 and 1 preparation of YGGR241 to link the two

1. Create a Semispace next to the WoodIn
2. Create the exit Semispace in the place needing Ebbs (or the main point where Ebbs are distributed from)
3. Link the two

Option Upgrade 2: Overseer EI
Creating an EI requires HUER328

1. Create an EI programmed to supply Ebbs to a SilverOut:Daylight when it's duration ends

It is possible to make a smaller version of the Generator.
Simply make 1 iteration of steps 2-9 rather than 4 and place a WoodIn prepared only once inside the same square as the Silver. This reduces output by 75% and has a lot more Circuits (400% more circuits for the same Ebb output)

A larger version with a bigger WoodIn/Circuit bubble is also possible but takes longer to expand the bubble

[lonely_cubone]

First of all, this is absolutely incredible, and the amount of work that's gone into this is astounding. If you put all of this in a book, I would buy it. I'm definitely using it in my next campaign, or maybe even working it into my current one.
I have one question for clarification though. The blue Kaleidomantic filter blocks water that has up to 1 part per thousand of impurities dissolved in it. Seawater and other salt water is usually a lot less pure than that. Is it intended for the filter to not apply to salt water? Whether it is or not, it would probably be a good idea to mention it in the description of the filter.

[Omnicrat]

I wrote a knack (quasi gestalt + better npc classes, basically) for gramarie if anyone is interested. Give your fighter a principle!

url to homebrew: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253278

[Gideon Falcon]

You know, we need a more concrete layout of the ebb generation of various noise levels for Crystal transformers.

Also, we need a way to make crank-powered generators, like a reverse Eldrikinetic engine.

Updated Dementianeer as requested.

[Silva Stormrage]

I notice that for the The Apogineer doesn't have an Earthlore ability for platinum geoccultism. Is that intended or was that an oversight?

[Amechra]

Platinum Geoccultism didn't exist at that point.

[Silva Stormrage]

Platinum Geoccultism didn't exist at that point.

Ah that makes sense, are there any plans on adding a Platinum Earth Lore ability? I would love to have it for an upcoming campaign where I am using this homebrew.

[Lady Tialait]

Absolutely wonderful. I can't wait to see what fixes show up for the silver out. Everyone I have shown this completely ignored the coolness just to preach about how broken all homebrew is.

*sigh* Anyway, while I may not be able to run this...I can dream.

[Omnicrat]

Absolutely wonderful. I can't wait to see what fixes show up for the silver out. Everyone I have shown this completely ignored the coolness just to preach about how broken all homebrew is.

*sigh* Anyway, while I may not be able to run this...I can dream.

There's always online play. Be it play by post or over Skype, given enough time, you can probably find a group where you could play anything.

There is a (currently stalled, awaiting silver fix) gramarie game I'm in. We're always open to new members. PM me if you're interested!

[Amechra]

I'll get it done! I might have time to write it up after my root canal on Thursday...

[Omnicrat]

I'll get it done! I might have time to write it up after my root canal on Thursday...

With all the drugs you'll probably be on, whatever you write up will be interesting at least. :smalltongue:

[Lady Tialait]

There's always online play. Be it play by post or over Skype, given enough time, you can probably find a group where you could play anything.

There is a (currently stalled, awaiting silver fix) gramarie game I'm in. We're always open to new members. PM me if you're interested!

My computer hates skype, so that is simply not an option. As for play by post...not hearing people and having vocal interaction makes the game seem a little less immersive to me.

[Morcleon]

My computer hates skype, so that is simply not an option. As for play by post...not hearing people and having vocal interaction makes the game seem a little less immersive to me.

Ah, but with PbP, the RP can be so much more in depth with detail and dialogue. It's like reading a book. :smallwink:

[Proud Tortoise]

The skill requirements for various principles make it very difficult for a universalist to get principles of multiple disciplines. :smallfrown:

[Morcleon]

The skill requirements for various principles make it very difficult for a universalist to get principles of multiple disciplines. :smallfrown:

How? Gramarists gain 6+Int skill points. There are only 9 disciplines. You should take at least a 16 Int to start (and/or play a human and/or take Nymph's Kiss). :smallwink:

[Lady Tialait]

Ah, but with PbP, the RP can be so much more in depth with detail and dialogue. It's like reading a book. :smallwink:

I've done a lot of PbP, I just prefer cheetos and whiskey RP table, and this seems like it would be perfect for that. A group of players with thier Gramarie pencils and extra paper getting passed around as they create bigger and greater machines. As DM I would be giving experience to them based on accomplishment instead of killing doods or exploring dungeons.

By the end of the night we would have re-created a campagin setting and be totally drunk and cheeto filled....

[Gideon Falcon]

We neee to make a compilation of the various tricks you can do, like the turbojets from page 15, so that people don't need to scour through the entire thread. I'm especially looking for things that a Geoccultism specialist could do in a city pole.

Here's a possible platinum earthlore:
Mighty Metropolis
You platinum poles cost 25% less. Your bizarrechitacture may include a third set of features. When you connect a Heuristic circuit to a Zeitgeist through power ribbons, if the circuit has no Exotic Intelligence, you may expend 20 lbs. to allow the Zeitgeist full control over the circuit. In addition, the Zeitgeist costs half as much additional material.

[Omnicrat]

Absolutely wonderful. I can't wait to see what fixes show up for the silver out. Everyone I have shown this completely ignored the coolness just to preach about how broken all homebrew is.

*sigh* Anyway, while I may not be able to run this...I can dream.

Also, the most broken aspects of gramarie are the silver transformers and yggdratecture. You could just take those out and everything balances a lot better for use in a more standard campaign. I also recommend not letting EIs take levels. Maybe you could run a gramarist like this?

[Proud Tortoise]

Can you use spell-like abilities to imprint a silver-out transformer? Or to power a silver-in?

Is there any way at all to increase the Will save of an EI?

[General Patton]

Is there any way at all to increase the Will save of an EI?

Have it take class levels. It'll get the base save bonus and ability score increases every 4th level. Though that does raise an interesting question. Does the EI's Wis and Cha continue to increase with its Int? Or does the equivalence only apply to base score generation?

[Proud Tortoise]

How would an EI gain experience/class levels?

[Draconas1]

We neee to make a compilation of the various tricks you can do, like the turbojets from page 15, so that people don't need to scour through the entire thread. I'm especially looking for things that a Geoccultism specialist could do in a city pole.

Well, there is a thread of blueprints here: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8508.0
That you can add thing like the turbojets to or ask sirpercival to add it if you don't have an account on minmaxboards.

[Omnicrat]

How would an EI gain experience/class levels?

Well, dream masons give EI's a special way to gain experience, but I would imagine most EIs gain experience and class levels the normal way. By killing things.

Edit:
Can you use spell-like abilities to imprint a silver-out transformer? Or to power a silver-in?

Yes.

[Milo v3]

Well, dream masons give EI's a special way to gain experience, but I would imagine most EIs gain experience and class levels the normal way. By killing things. Achieving goals.

Fixed that for you.

[Omnicrat]

Fixed that for you.

No, while achieving goals is what grants xp, most people specifically gain xp by killing.

[Milo v3]

No, while achieving goals is what grants xp, most people players specifically gain xp by killing.

Fixed that for you.

[Omnicrat]

Fixed that for you.

When was the last time you met a level 6 farmer who wasn't an ex soilder? Most xp comes from killing.

[Milo v3]

When was the last time you met a level 6 farmer who wasn't an ex soilder? Most xp comes from killing.

NWN 2, but I generally don't ask farmers about their backstories.

Also lifetime of RP xp can get you a decent (but useless) amount of NPC levels.

[Omnicrat]

NWN 2, but I generally don't ask farmers about their backstories.

Also lifetime of RP xp can get you a decent (but useless) amount of NPC levels.

Idt NPCs get RP xp. I mean, its not really role playing if it is your life.

I wish I could have abbreviated get somehow...

[Milo v3]

Idt NPCs get RP xp. I mean, its not really role playing if it is your life.

I wish I could have abbreviated get somehow...

Then every commoner must be level 1. Why did they even bother with levels 2-20.

That would have been good.

[Omnicrat]

Then every commoner must be level 1. Why did they even bother with levels 2-20.

That would have been good.

Consistency. Also, commoners can murder other commoners.

[sreservoir]

dammit why do people keep thinking killing is the only source of xp, it's right there in the dmg that killing doesn't generally provide xp.

[Lady Tialait]

dammit why do people keep thinking killing is the only source of xp, it's right there in the dmg that killing doesn't generally provide xp.

A hold over from 2nd edtion, and re-instated in 4th edition. Each monster having an XP value. 3rd added the CR chart that is basically the same thing. Also, a lot of DMs don't give RP xp..or xp for overcoming challenges (I.E. non-violent overcoming fights, Traps)

[Proud Tortoise]

If you place terrain features with a geoccultist pole, is the cost taken from the pole daily or just once? What about the supernatural terrain feature? Because some of them have a cost, and then a separate daily cost for refreshing water and whatnot.

Also, how does an EI kill things and/or accomplish goals?

[Morcleon]

If you place terrain features with a geoccultist pole, is the cost taken from the pole daily or just once? What about the supernatural terrain feature? Because some of them have a cost, and then a separate daily cost for refreshing water and whatnot.

Also, how does an EI kill things and/or accomplish goals?

Using circuited biostructure! :smallbiggrin:

[Omnicrat]

If you place terrain features with a geoccultist pole, is the cost taken from the pole daily or just once? What about the supernatural terrain feature? Because some of them have a cost, and then a separate daily cost for refreshing water and whatnot.

The cost is the maximum volume of matter needed to maintain a geoccult pole, while the daily cost is matter consumed by the pole to maintain specific stuff.


Using circuited biostructure! :smallbiggrin:

Don't even need biostructure. One damaging out transformer and purely mental problem solving.

[Morcleon]

Don't even need biostructure. One damaging out transformer and purely mental problem solving.

But then you're just sitting there waiting for things to get within range. :smallamused:

[Lady Tialait]

But then you're just sitting there waiting for things to get within range. :smallamused:

Eldrikinetic engines to move a damaging output, perhaps? There are options other then Biollurgy to create a genocidal machine God.

and I for one, welcome our new robot overlord.

[Morcleon]

Eldrikinetic engines to move a damaging output, perhaps? There are options other then Biollurgy to create a genocidal machine God.

and I for one, welcome our new robot overlord.

Could. Would be pretty vulnerable to overload by wood transformers, though.:smallamused:

"Bow down to me, for I am y-"

*1'x1'x1' blocks of wood are thrown*

"What is this power? Noooooooooooo..." *crash*

[Omnicrat]

But then you're just sitting there waiting for things to get within range. :smallamused:

Have him spread the word that there is 100 gold at the end of the hallway or something...

[Lady Tialait]

Could. Would be pretty vulnerable to overload by wood transformers, though.:smallamused:

"Bow down to me, for I am y-"

*1'x1'x1' blocks of wood are thrown*

"What is this power? Noooooooooooo..." *crash*

And this is all I could think... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM_M1ct554U)

[Anecronwashere]

Actually that is a rather stupid exploit.

@Creator: I advise you add a clause to the EI that it may link to a piece of Gramarie within range using 1 logical decision, by default not linking to any foreign objects like a mindless circuit would, in the case of a trap.


In other news due to HUER302 I can create Factory-Making Factories, PowerPlant-making Factories, Weapon Factories etc. all churning out billions of manhours worth of wares every round.
I can almost obsolete the unskilled labourer. All I need is a way of making a conveyor belt and assembling Gramarie machines
I dont want to use Eldrikinetic engines inside a belt and Biollurgy doesnt solve the second problem cause it still relies on meat (and is less efficient than citizens for the initial setup, before becoming self-sustaining)

Now what do I do with my 10^999999 Ebbs per round?
I suppose go terraform every planet in the solar system into massive platinum cities but what's the point when each house is in it's own private Demiplane and thus takes up 2 5ft squares (2.5 ft on either side of the opening to allow medium-sized creatures to walk between them and not get confused of addresses. Since the ones next to it also have the same gap it is a flat 5ft between each opening). I can reduce the number with YGGR's connecting pathways or any other way you can think of but that seems silly at this point

[Qwertystop]

Could. Would be pretty vulnerable to overload by wood transformers, though.:smallamused:

"Bow down to me, for I am y-"

*1'x1'x1' blocks of wood are thrown*

"What is this power? Noooooooooooo..." *crash*

Make sure to throw them so they come out the other side. That way you get the component-removed save as well as the ebb-flow disruption from the WoodIn.

[Morcleon]

Make sure to throw them so they come out the other side. That way you get the component-removed save as well as the ebb-flow disruption from the WoodIn.


Puissance input absorbs a gramaric charge which enters the net. This can be primarily used to interrupt or redirect a circuit created with a principle of heuristicism. If a circuit is running through the net and gramaric energy flows along it, the energy is absorbed into the transformer instead.

Circuits aren't automatically linked to everything in the net. These just drain ebbs every round. :smallbiggrin:

[kestrel404]

OK, this is very neat, well written, and for the most part extremely well thought out. I've only got a few points about ridiculously abuseable abilities.

Here are some examples super-nasties:
YGGD212 - Gravity. That's not something you let people play with in the mid-leagues. That's, at the minimum, doctorate level stuff. Why? Let me give you an example (literally the first thing I thought of when I read that power): You take a 10' pole. You make one end of the pole the focus point of a gravity field (1g, simple) that points in the direction of the other end of the pole ('down' is along the length of the pole). You tie a rope to the pole. You take a 5' radius boulder and drill a hole through the middle. You thread the rope through the boulder. You then pull up on the rope. After lifting the boulder into the air on the rope, you stand on the boulder, build a platform on it, whatever. As long as you never put more weight on that one boulder than it weighs (and a 5' radius ball of rock is going to weigh about 4 tons), then it will never fall all the way through the reverse gravity bubble and will therefore always have neutral boyancy as long as you keep the stick relatively slack. You now have a free vertical ascending/descending engine (ELDK 276) - to go up, you pull on the rope (which causes more of the rock to be in the reverse gravity field, causing the system to move upwards to adjust - but since the tension on the rope is relative to the rock you're on, the upwards movement continues until you stop pulling on the rope). To go down, you push on the stick. Total cost of this infinite-use, free operation flying machine? Probably about 10 copper pieces and an hour of effort. And ANY level 7 Gramarist can pull this off.

Magnetic flux is almost as bad. If I wanted to get fancy, I can describe how to use several flux fields and a big metal spool of copper to generate infinite electricity (which can be turned into infinite ebbs, by changing the copper wire into a copper transformer). And by infinite, I mean about 1000 Ebbs/round forever (back of a napkin math, that's what I can do easily with 5 flux fields and 1 pound of copper).

So, YGGD 212 is kind of broken.

The only other Area I've got a bone to pick on is Tactile under IMCH 101. That should really be moved into IMCH 295 for one very nasty reason. With the way IMCH works, you'd have a hard time getting enough clues in time to 'disbelieve the air (http://agc.deskslave.org/comic_viewer.html?goNumber=56)'. Given KALD 207 and a golem with an airtight container to act as a vacuum pump, this isn't even a difficult trap to set up.

One question I do have: The targets for ARCD are all '1 cubic foot of material x'. Does it have to be a full cubic foot of that material? Can you use it on smaller amounts?

I'm just curious, because some of those can get very expensive:
Silver: 3147 gp/cubic foot
Gold: 57900 gp/cubic foot
Platinum: 643200 gp/cubic foot

I think those are the big 3.

On other question. When you say that a Silver Output transformer that's got a spell stored and is being controlled by someone can have the aspects of the spell changed by the controller, how much change can they make? The specific example I've got in mind is as follows:
You create a silver transformer that's set to cast True Creation to generate 10 GP worth of silver (costs 2.5 thousand XP to create, granted). Can a person controlling the transformer than use it to generate 10 GP worth of something else (like gold or platinum)? Since the base limit on the True Creation spell is the amount of XP expended and therefore the GP cost of what's created, does this allow you to make unlimited material goods at a rate of 10 gp of value per activation?

[Arcanist]

In other news due to HUER302 I can create Factory-Making Factories, PowerPlant-making Factories, Weapon Factories etc. all churning out billions of manhours worth of wares every round.
I can almost obsolete the unskilled labourer. All I need is a way of making a conveyor belt and assembling Gramarie machines
I dont want to use Eldrikinetic engines inside a belt and Biollurgy doesnt solve the second problem cause it still relies on meat (and is less efficient than citizens for the initial setup, before becoming self-sustaining)

I think you're forgetting the purpose of a Factory and Industrialization :smallconfused:

[Anecronwashere]

It uniforms the production process allowing unskilled labour to do the work of several professionals and one to do the work of many, many people.
but with an EI I can go further, obviating the need for ANY but the most experienced who can build even better plans to do other things.

Only skilled Gramarists would even understand this stuff, let alone be able to oversee the things that could go wrong
The only need for unskilled labourers in a Gramarie Industry would be 'carry X from A to B. Rinse and repeat'

[Omnicrat]

It uniforms the production process allowing unskilled labour to do the work of several professionals and one to do the work of many, many people.
but with an EI I can go further, obviating the need for ANY but the most experienced who can build even better plans to do other things.

Only skilled Gramarists would even understand this stuff, let alone be able to oversee the things that could go wrong
The only need for unskilled labourers in a Gramarie Industry would be 'carry X from A to B. Rinse and repeat'

You have EI controlled chassises for your manual labor, and portals to make every point in the world a mile away from every other point. A world that realizes the full potential of gramarie has everyone living forever in their own personal demiplanes. That's the point. Now, most games and game worlds will never get that far, but the potential is supposed to be there.

Also, some modern factories do not have workers, but are fully automated. We're moving closer to a fully automated means of production in the real world, and gramarie reflects that.

[EdroGrimshell]

Also, some modern factories do not have workers, but are fully automated. We're moving closer to a fully automated means of production in the real world, and gramarie reflects that.

They still have maintanence workers

[Omnicrat]

They still have maintanence workers

Some have maybe one guy. Some have guys who only come in when there is a problem. I heard of a factory where the conveyor belt broke, and the one guy on hand, instead of calling for repairs re-programed the giant mechanical arms to catch and throw engine blocks. This was discovered when technicians came to fix something else. My point is you have a very small elite work force if you totally automate, and a gramatic world still has gramarists.

[Milo v3]

If this was ported to PF, what disciplines would have what key skill:
Name|Original Skill|PF Skill
Alchemetry|Diplomacy|Diplomacy
Arcanodynamics|Use Magic Device|Use Magic Device
Biollurgy|Heal|Heal
Eldrikinetics|Concentration|?
Geoccultism|Survival|Survival
Heuristicism|Autohypnosis|Autohypnosis
Imachination|Bluff|Bluff
Kaleidomantics|Spot|Perception?
Yggdratecture|Forgery|Linguistics?

EDIT: The other change you need to make with PF is reduce alll the prerequiste ranks for Principles by 3.

[Omnicrat]

Perception definitely works.

[kestrel404]

Eldrikinetics: Fly skill, obviously
Yggdratecture: Slight of Hand?

[Omnicrat]

Eldrikinetics: Fly skill, obviously
Yggdratecture: Slight of Hand?

Not slight of hand. Its forgery because you are making a fake plane, basically. Some type of craft, maybe?

[General Patton]

Linguistics? That's what Forgery was lumped into, and it would now carry some True Speech-esque connotations.

In the beginning, Level 20 Grammarist said "Let there be light." (in 5-dimensional hyper language), and there was, and it was Major Good Aligned.

[Cogidubnus]

This has so many awesome applications it could keep me busy for years. I have already designed a preliminary Iron Man suit (because that is what I do whenever I am given a way of creating energy in a new way).

However, one question. Bubbles. When you make a larger radius bubble, what formula are you using to decide how many preparations it takes? I can see each gap is getting larger, but is also less relative to the number of preparations. Is it based on the cube's volume?

Ed: Wait, got it. Divide the volume of the sphere by 523.5987756, the volume of a sphere with 5ft radius.

[Proud Tortoise]

This has so many awesome applications it could keep me busy for years. I have already designed a preliminary Iron Man suit (because that is what I do whenever I am given a way of creating energy in a new way).

However, one question. Bubbles. When you make a larger radius bubble, what formula are you using to decide how many preparations it takes? I can see each gap is getting larger, but is also less relative to the number of preparations. Is it based on the cube's volume?

Ed: Wait, got it. Divide the volume of the sphere by 523.5987756, the volume of a sphere with 5ft radius.

:smallconfused: It's (radius/5)^2.

[Cogidubnus]

:smallconfused: It's (radius/5)^2.

It's really not. For example:

15ft radius takes 27 preparations. Your formula produces (15/5)^2, or (3)^2) = 9. Dunno if my method's the *simplest", but it produces results in line with the table.

[Amechra]

The bubble preparations is (radius/5)^3, people.

1
8
27
81
...

It is a fairly obvious mathematical progression...

[Proud Tortoise]

The bubble preparations is (radius/5)^3, people.

1
8
27
81
...

It is a fairly obvious mathematical progression...

Right, duh. Worked that out another time but forgot...

If my colleague is a yggdratecht, can he join a semispace he creates to a semispace I've created? Or must he create both of them?

[Anecronwashere]

Since joining is another preparation totally separate your buddy should be able to link the two.

[Proud Tortoise]

As a level 20 grammarist, it seems like I would be able to cram a semispace with a silver-in and several silver-outs, each with a powerful 8th or 9th level spell stored in it, and then use my eldritch blast to power it. And be able to cast some 9th level spells at-will. Does anything prevent my doing this?

[Omnicrat]

As a level 20 grammarist, it seems like I would be able to cram a semispace with a silver-in and several silver-outs, each with a powerful 8th or 9th level spell stored in it, and then use my eldritch blast to power it. And be able to cast some 9th level spells at-will. Does anything prevent my doing this?

No, but spells cannot cross the thresh-hold of a semispace.

[Morcleon]

No, but spells cannot cross the thresh-hold of a semispace.

And that, my friend, is when you have a silverOut of gate to create a portal that spells can pass through. :smallwink:

[Proud Tortoise]

What if it's a sending spell or something along those lines?

[Morcleon]

What if it's a sending spell or something along those lines?

Sending spells bypass the portal entirely. They work the same as they normally would (ie, 5% failure chance for being on another plane).

Spells that work between planes work normally. It's just that spells can't be cast through the portal.

[Proud Tortoise]

Hmmm... Silver transformers needn't be cube-shaped, correct? What if the bulk of each transformer was housed in the semispace, but had a narrow rod sticking through the portal?

[Hanuman]

Feats that changes input options, I was watching The Thing (1982 Classic) and I thought it would be a cool plothook for villain to just be grabbing people, skewering them on big hooks in a cellar and draining their blood into some sort of giant obscure magitech stone that absorbs the stuff to fuel it, then I thought how rad Gramarie would be for having blood input, then I thought how rad it would be to have engines and such have options to be fueled by higher-scarcity inputs at a higher efficiency rate, the lava-bucket in the furnace so-to-speak.

[Proud Tortoise]

Feats that changes input options, I was watching The Thing (1982 Classic) and I thought it would be a cool plothook for villain to just be grabbing people, skewering them on big hooks in a cellar and draining their blood into some sort of giant obscure magitech stone that absorbs the stuff to fuel it, then I thought how rad Gramarie would be for having blood input, then I thought how rad it would be to have engines and such have options to be fueled by higher-scarcity inputs at a higher efficiency rate, the lava-bucket in the furnace so-to-speak.

Well, submerging engines...

[Hanuman]

Well, submerging engines...

Oh man I totally forgot that one.

Still, not a fan of having fixed random input, options would be nice.

[Milo v3]

Fridge horror, when you realise that originally they didn't know blood would do anything to the engine.

[Hanuman]

Cowboy Bebop Lobster Scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QadhPRU0Dn8

Hey, hey, why do engines not have Byproducts? Too complicated?

[Omnicrat]

Fridge horror, when you realise that originally they didn't know blood would do anything to the engine.

A gramarist just accidentally pricked his finger and it moved down?

[Proud Tortoise]

Silver transformers needn't be cube-shaped, correct? What if the bulk of each transformer was housed in the semispace, but had a narrow rod sticking through the portal? Would they be able to cast spells normally, then?

[kestrel404]

Silver transformers needn't be cube-shaped, correct? What if the bulk of each transformer was housed in the semispace, but had a narrow rod sticking through the portal? Would they be able to cast spells normally, then?

I suspect it would fail, due to rulebooks impacting the player's skull.

Very much outside the spirit of what's written.

[Omnicrat]

Silver transformers needn't be cube-shaped, correct? What if the bulk of each transformer was housed in the semispace, but had a narrow rod sticking through the portal? Would they be able to cast spells normally, then?

Engines and transformers only work in semispace/plane x if over 50 % of their mass is in said plain.

[Cogidubnus]

I wonder if it was intentional that a gold, lead or platinum transformer be so hard to use? Such a thing, having a volume of at least one cubic foot, would weigh over a ton for even the lightest of these three. As bubbles don't extend beyond semi-spaces, there isn't a simple solution to this.

[Amechra]

You can make things lighter, you know.

[Omnicrat]

Alternatively, Semi-space caring case.

[Arcanist]

I wonder if it was intentional that a gold, lead or platinum transformer be so hard to use? Such a thing, having a volume of at least one cubic foot, would weigh over a ton for even the lightest of these three. As bubbles don't extend beyond semi-spaces, there isn't a simple solution to this.

It would be silly for an Arcanodynamisist to at least not take Preternatural Fluids. Hell almost every discipline can benefit from that Principle. Now actually getting those metals is an entirely different story :smalltongue:

[Cogidubnus]

Alternatively, Semi-space caring case.

Gotta tip it out to use it, mind, which can be both undignifed and impractical.


It would be silly for an Arcanodynamisist to at least not take Preternatural Fluids. Hell almost every discipline can benefit from that Principle. Now actually getting those metals is an entirely different story :smalltongue:

True, if you've got access to the principle it's a great help. Though it's another annoying added time-consumer.

[Omnicrat]

Gotta tip it out to use it, mind, which can be both undignifed and impractical.

I designed a very efficient carrying case. It is a very thin alchemtricly treated sheet of metal to be both light and sturdy with a handle (And a semi-space on the bottom of it) and a sheet on the bottom with 4 latches.

Place it on the ground, twist to undo latches, and lift

and your transfomers/engines are deployed

when done, slide lid back over transformers/engines,push down till laches click, then twist handle back. Lift your few pounds of carrying case.

[Arcanist]

True, if you've got access to the principle it's a great help. Though it's another annoying added time-consumer.

When you get to a certain level of power (Doctorate Principles), time stops being a factor since you can theoretically just create a Fast Time Demiplane, Build a Quicksilver facility inside of it and then build a Fast Time Demiplane in side of that Quicksilver Facility (Not sure how much time you gain from that...)

And then you get stuff like using portable, self activating, self powering Arcanodynamic transformers to constantly put you in a state of Time Stop when it expires, giving you potentially more time.

Of course doing something like this requires 2 Doctorate level Gramarist (Yggd and Alch).

In fact...



Blueprint: Time and Relative Dimension in Space [Time Lock]
Principles: YGGD 101, YGGD 353, YGGD 371, HEUR 101, ARCD 101, ALCH 364
Prestige Class: None
Explaination: People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually — from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint — it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly... timey-wimey... stuff.

Yes, the Time Lords... The undisputed masters of time and space who long since ruled the cosmos eons before lesser races discovered fire... This Blueprint was created to allow a Time Lord to simply lock themselves outside of time to return for a later date to be declared by the user; often when the user wants to leave the Time Lock they select a normal person outside of it to unlock it for them... So if you ever hear drum beats, you should PROBABLY walk the opposite direction, but this is rarely done, because only an idiot creates a door with a door knob on a single side.

But yes, by using a series of Demiplanes, Quicksilver facilities and Arcanodynamic Engines the Gramarist can potentially remove time as a factor from their work.

First the Gramarist takes a small item, usually a key or something and tethers a Semi-Space to it. The Gramarist then goes into the Semi-Space to create another Semi-space inside of it, this semispace will become a Demiplane with the Double Time Trait.

After this the Gramarist then creates a Quicksilver Facility inside of this Demiplane and then steps inside of it to construct another Semi-Space that will become another Demiplane with the Double Time Trait. Perform this processes as much as you desire or until a book is thrown at you.

Finally you create a GoldIn and connect it to a SilverOut with Time stop connected to it. You can make this item as weightless as you desire using Alch 325 if you desire. Make sure the GoldIn can supply enough Ebbs to the SilverOut to make it trigger once per round and you should be golden.

When you work inside of your... Hmm... Lets call it "T.A.R.D.I.S." you should be able to work at such a rapid speed that time no longer becomes a factor for you.

[Amechra]

That wouldn't speed you up past x4; once you create the next demiplane, you are on a different plane, and not inside the facility anymore.

[Necroticplague]

And even if it did work, you would have the problem of starting to age more quickly, assuming you aren't an elan or warforged.

[Arcanist]

That wouldn't speed you up past x4; once you create the next demiplane, you are on a different plane, and not inside the facility anymore.

Allow me to correct myself:

Creating additional Double Time Demiplanes is unnecessary; All you would need is Quicksilver facilities after the first one.

Quicksilver is easily the most breakable element of Gramarie.


Objects and structures made from quicksilver experience time at a faster rate than other materials. For all purposes, they experience two rounds for every normal round. Spaces, creatures, and objects (Including Quicksilver) completely enclosed by quicksilver experience the same effect, although it's usually impossible to interact with the outside world from such a location in order to take advantage of the property.

Meaning that a facility inside a facility inside a facility (all three layers made of quicksilver) experiences 8 rounds of time for every 1. The Demiplane is honestly only there to save space and is unnecessary since regardless of location it is still bound to the Material Plane as far as time goes meaning that a Fast Time Demiplane inside a Fast Time Demiplane still experiences just as much time as the original Fast Time Demiplane.


Double Time: For every round that passes on the Material Plane, two rounds pass on this demiplane.

It doesn't care about the conditions outside of the Demiplane since it is all within itself.

You are effectively: Taking a bag, putting a semi-space in it, walking into that semi-space, turning it into a Demiplane and then building facilities from there on as layered as you need. When you need to build a piece of Gramarie you go into the bag and make what you need, then pop out.


And even if it did work, you would have the problem of starting to age more quickly, assuming you aren't an elan or warforged.

At this level of play, Caramot is the logical solution to avoid this problem. It takes an hour to make and gives you 24 hours of of time to construct as you please.

EDIT: You can also be an Elan, a Warforged, or a Necropolitan if you want, but by the time Doctorate level Principles come online you are already beyond aging being a flaw.

EDIT 2: Better yet, be a Warforged, take Silver Tracery (Planetary Metal), turn it into Mercury (DC 35), turn it into Quicksilver (DC 70). You are now constructing at twice the speed of a normal Gramarist!

[Proud Tortoise]

I don't get how potential works for the dungeonjammer. Could she just shovel a bunch of dirt into her Monty Haul, or what?

[Eldest]

I don't get how potential works for the dungeonjammer. Could she just shovel a bunch of dirt into her Monty Haul, or what?

From my understanding, yes.

Because I don't think I've actually posted, I do like this project and actually recommended it for the Eternus setting (Byzintine actually already posted in this thread about it).

[Geordnet]

Wow.

I never thought I'd see the day I admit that Magitek can actually be cool. :smallbiggrin:

[Gideon Falcon]

There needs to be a more expanded list of ebb generation for the Crystal input. It has no indication how much puissance is generated by, say, a waterfall.

[Arcanist]

I've been working on the Campaign setting for Gramarie and trying to account for all the things I'd like to implement into the world.

Currency has been solved for (Alternate materials that an Alchemeter cannot replicate) and an environment has been plotted 56% is Wasteland (this includes mountains and dungeons) 24% is Ocean (includes Island nations) 10% other (Forest, Jungle, Tundra and a little bit more leeway for additional environments.)

So far it is resembling a mixture of Ravenloft, Athas, the Fallout series and Eberron if the war had dragged on and instead of stopping after the Mourning, everyone tried to figure out how to replicate that which elevated into people developing preventatives towards survival (Yggdratectural Demiplanes).

Guns exist in the world as well as Ballistic Engines that can be used to make heavier weapons and used as Guns to be modified as such. I am still having a problem with the damned Silver(Out) :smallannoyed:

Magic and Psionics functions MUCH differently in the world since the war. Magic is greatly empowered in certain areas of the world and at certain altitudes, or it is chaotic and wild, however for the most part it is impeded. Specifically Divination magic pertaining to Alignment. Paladins can be of any alignment and instead of Smite Evil have Smite Opposition.

The entire setting takes place in a close circuited Demiplane with multiple other Demiplanes surrounding it that intercept Teleportation spells and powers (having it's own transitive planes, including a replication of the Ordial Plane). This prevents a Yggdratecturist from creating portals to other planes and at least puts a limit on the amount of space the Gramarist that inhabit and use without at least using a little Yggdratecture.

Creatures have been mutated into Titanic versions of themselves, gifted inherent spell-like abilities as well as Psionic abilities.

The most important note is that the world is already dead. Nothing can nor will it ever bring it back to it's former grace...

[Omnicrat]

Saying nothing could ever bring the world back is a hard thing to swallow. There is literally a whole discipline of gramarie dedicated to changing terrain types. What could have possibly happened to make it impossible?

[Milo v3]

Saying nothing could ever bring the world back is a hard thing to swallow. There is literally a whole discipline of gramarie dedicated to changing terrain types. What could have possibly happened to make it impossible?

Repeated Sun Metal nukes?

[Arcanist]

Saying nothing could ever bring the world back is a hard thing to swallow. There is literally a whole discipline of gramarie dedicated to changing terrain types. What could have possibly happened to make it impossible?

Perhaps I was being to melodramatic :smalltongue:


Gold: Gold ascend into sunmetal, which is a radiomantic element. Radiomantic elements deal 1 negative level per round to anyone who handles them. The DC to remove a negative level from a radiomantic element is 25. If at least a cubic foot of radiomantic material is charged with at least 100 ebbs of puissance on a given round, it detonates in an explosion with a radius of 1 mile per cubic foot of metal. The explosion deals 1d10 negative levels to every living thing in the area, hellfire damage equal to the total number of ebbs channeled into the metal (Fortitude save for half damage against DC 25) and it poisons the earth; no living thing can grow there for the next 50 years. Geoccult poles in the area are affected by this. If the number of ebbs channeled in the explosion exceeds the Survival check of the pole, it is destroyed and the metal used in its construction disintegrated; other geoccult poles set up in the area in the next 50 years must beat this DC or disintegrate upon preparation. Sunmetal has a Diplomacy DC of 85.

It's not entirely "nope, world is dun4evar!" it's more like "Nope, it's beyond your skill to fix the entire world." Most terrains that survive have effects in place that prevent any halfway decent adjustment to the world like excessive amounts of Taint in the land and unusual weather patterns (Evil Weather), however through all of this the largest deterrent from rebuilding the world through Gramarie is that nobody really has much time for it. Sure you get the occasional Biome, however it is fairly rare to see such a place without the use of a G.E.C.K. :smallwink:

To summarize an even longer BS rant: "Pie in the Sky, Wizard did it, It's Magic I ain't gotta explain ****, DM's fiat, rule zero." :smalltongue:

I'm considering making note of what happens after a Nuclear Fallout (Black Rain) that effectively destroys the plant life and wild life in the area of the explosion to be request for Sunmetal (my favorite Ascended Metal, by far.) or a Geoccultism biome that has this same effect and is more or less a black stain on the map so to speak (nothing else can replace it or go over it). I'd rather see the world go more into the direction of survival, rather then "well! we destroyed the world! Let's make a new one and do it again!" This isn't Sim city...

[Milo v3]

or a Geoccultism biome that has this same effect

I was actually planning on making biomes for ascended materials. With Sunmetal biomes acting as a Chernobyl-style wasteland.

[Arcanist]

I was actually planning on making biomes for ascended materials. With Sunmetal biomes acting as a Chernobyl-style wasteland.

beautiful, lets see your thoughts on them so far.

[Terror_Incognito]

I'm REALLY digging this system.

Here is an idea that I'm suprised no one else has suggested. I'm not so sure about the details but here are the basics.

Self Cleaning Cultists:
Use PlatinumIn with the bubble covering their profane house of worship linked to a Sunmetal out (possibly with Oricalcum in there to build a charge).

BAM, standard Stop The Cultist Campaign done.

While I was thinking about this I also wondered if Ritual Sacrifices should generate Ebbs and what would define a sacrifice if it did.

[Arcanist]

Self Cleaning Cultists:
Use PlatinumIn with the bubble covering their profane house of worship linked to a Sunmetal out (possibly with Oricalcum in there to build a charge).

Nah, daddio, your thinking small time, SMALL TIME! Join the Cult and convert their great symbol of worship into a PlatinumIn and then connect a Semi-Space through to transfer ebbs and use their prayers to fuel your Gramarie. In addition to this connect some Sunmetal into a woodOut (that is connected to the platinum) and then POW! Right in the kisser, all those chumps are knocked on down to dance the swing with their bosses when they get a large enough bunch of other chumps to sip the kool aid, know what I mean?

[Milo v3]

beautiful, lets see your thoughts on them so far.

Annoyingly I can't find the damned file. :smallannoyed:
I may have to start from scratch.

[Silvernale]

When I first saw this I laughed a bit. Then I read it and though "damn that is some awesome stuff for [insert my character name]". One big question tho.. any plans for Epic Level gramarie?

[Omnicrat]

When I first saw this I laughed a bit. Then I read it and though "damn that is some awesome stuff for [insert my character name]". One big question tho.. any plans for Epic Level gramarie?

Yes. I believe they are called theories, and will be combinations of two disciplines.

[Proud Tortoise]

I keep having ideas for grammarie settings, but then discarding them because of the existence of Yygdratechture. A single portal from one continent to another renders obselete just about every vehicle ever. :smallmad:

[Silvernale]

I only read over the first page, but were there feats for this? I've been working on a gramarist since I read this :smallsmile:

[Omnicrat]

I keep having ideas for grammarie settings, but then discarding them because of the existence of Yygdratechture. A single portal from one continent to another renders obselete just about every vehicle ever. :smallmad:

Basically, yeah. Vehicles are for expansion, personal travel, and fun basically. Even still, the best vehicle is a TaRDiS using YGGD where it links back to a personal demiplane. You can solve this problem a few ways. 1) Portals are illegal for wide-spread use due to their use in wartime, 2) That principle hasn't been invented yet, 3) never have that principle.


I only read over the first page, but were there feats for this? I've been working on a gramarist since I read this :smallsmile:

I believe I remember kellus saying specifically he did not want any gramarie feats to exist.

[Arcanist]

I keep having ideas for grammarie settings, but then discarding them because of the existence of Yygdratechture. A single portal from one continent to another renders obselete just about every vehicle ever. :smallmad:

I am working on something like this as well. I simply created an entire self-contained Cosmology similar to Eberron so that Yggdratecture does not deal to much damage.

Originally I wanted it to have some SpellJamming elements included, however that would be adding to much spice into a soup :smallsigh: Instead simply making Yggdratectural Pathways folds in space (Worm Holes so to speak) is much more simple and makes it a much less optimal method of Planar Travel. The Planes are instead Planets in this setting.

It is when you get into Doctorate level stuff that the setting falls apart. The Highest level character should, at most, be 14th level and only have access to a single Doctorate level Principle and that is it. A Single Doctor amongst a ten-thousand Baccalaureates, a thousand Magistrates and a million of everything else.

If you do want to use more High level Gramarie and still have a setting similar to the Forgotten Realm? Make an Entity that can completely say NO to Gramarie flat out (like Mystra) and a million billion more entities that can just pop down and curb stomp the PCs (not endorsing this as a DM, mind you).

Good night, moon.

[Zireael]

God, I wish the D&D rules were metric.

You know D&D is metric in some translations?

I love the hypernet on pg. 11.


conversion rate for HP to volume of fluid blood
I'd make a conversion rate for Con to volume of fluid blood.

Also, Biollurgy makes me want to combine a Biollurgist with http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240717 ...!

Tangentially related - where are the PrCs? I can't find them on pg.1.

Oh, yeah, a Madspark Eccentric would be brilliant too!

A mastery feat for each principle would be brilliant...



***
I want a setting to go with this! Totally...
EDIT: And a wiki to go read everything in peace.

[Gideon Falcon]

There needs to be a more expanded list of ebb generation for the Crystal input. It has no indication how much puissance is generated by, say, a waterfall.

Is it just me, or does this thread seem to ignore a lot of legitimate questions?

[Omnicrat]

Is it just me, or does this thread seem to ignore a lot of legitimate questions?

Someone responded to you.

Edit: Also, that sonic thing was asked before you.

[Exthalion]

I am sorry if this is really thick, but I haven't had time to read all of the thread so these may have been asked before.

1. Are there any other ways to make batteries besides orichalcum?

2. Can circuits stretch through Yggdratecture portals and into their spaces and such?

3. What is the interaction between normal magic items and magitech? Could I use continual flames to produce ebbs with a crystal transformer forever?

4. Can the products of magic produce or be used by magitech? Could I True Creation up some sun metal or Wish for a pocket space?

5. What are the rules for producing semi spaces inside of semi spaces or demiplanes inside of demiplanes? (I get the feeling this is in the first page and I just missed it in my reading)

[The Tyler]

You know D&D is metric in some translations?

I love the hypernet on pg. 11.


I'd make a conversion rate for Con to volume of fluid blood.

Also, Biollurgy makes me want to combine a Biollurgist with http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240717 ...!

Tangentially related - where are the PrCs? I can't find them on pg.1.

Oh, yeah, a Madspark Eccentric would be brilliant too!

A mastery feat for each principle would be brilliant...



***
I want a setting to go with this! Totally...
EDIT: And a wiki to go read everything in peace.

The hypernet from page 11 was cool, but it was very expensive and mostly used spell to generate its effects. I'd like to see how much of an internet analogue we can create using just gramarie. The biggest issues I see are data storage and and scaling.

I'd suggest volume of fluid blood for size category.

Prestige classes are in post #12 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13732930&postcount=12) and #13 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13732940&postcount=13)


Is it just me, or does this thread seem to ignore a lot of legitimate questions?

Waterfalls are going to vary in their sound volume. I'd say that most generate 1 ebb, since the few I have experience with are loud enough to drown out general conversation, but not much more.


I am sorry if this is really thick, but I haven't had time to read all of the thread so these may have been asked before.

1. Are there any other ways to make batteries besides orichalcum?

2. Can circuits stretch through Yggdratecture portals and into their spaces and such?

3. What is the interaction between normal magic items and magitech? Could I use continual flames to produce ebbs with a crystal transformer forever?

4. Can the products of magic produce or be used by magitech? Could I True Creation up some sun metal or Wish for a pocket space?

5. What are the rules for producing semi spaces inside of semi spaces or demiplanes inside of demiplanes? (I get the feeling this is in the first page and I just missed it in my reading)

I'm going to try to answer these, but I may be wrong in some accounts.

1. Not in the base class, though I think some of the prestige classes provide alternate means of storing ebbs.

2. No, although one of the prestige classes lets you expand your circuits through a semi-space portal.

3. Not with a crystal since it absorbs sound, but it it's bright enough, you can do so with a gold.

4. I'd say yes to the pocket space. I'm not sure about making sunmetal with True Creation.

5. Sub-spaces can be connected to two other sub-spaces, but it can't be done with the Baccalaureate principle . I don't think there's a limit to creating demiplanes.

[Necroticplague]

1. Not in the base class, though I think some of the prestige classes provide alternate means of storing ebbs.


Specialist Geooccultist can make lightning pools to store ebbs. a bit over the top by most account, but definitely workable (and useful, if you have access to them).

[The Tyler]

Specialist Geooccultist can make lightning pools to store ebbs. a bit over the top by most account, but definitely workable (and useful, if you have access to them).

Okay. I missed that part then.

On the subject of Heuristic circuits, can you link multiple circuits to a single piece of gramarie? For example, a circuit set up within a semi-space or demiplane that connects to the portal and a circuit outside that is also connected to the portal. If that is possible, then can those two circuits interact to pass puissance from one circuit to the other?

Also, do demiplanes have suns or natural ambient light? If so, at what level?

[Gideon Falcon]

Someone responded to you.

Edit: Also, that sonic thing was asked before you.

Who responded to me? I can't find any responses. Also, I'm pretty sure the other time it was asked was me, and I didn't see any responses then, either.

[Omnicrat]

Who responded to me? I can't find any responses. Also, I'm pretty sure the other time it was asked was me, and I didn't see any responses then, either.

The general consensus, both times, if I recall, was yes there should be, then the conversation moved on. Your question was not adressed any deeper than that. But you know what? Make it yourself if you feel like it. However, Tyler seems to have further addressed your specific waterfall point.

Also, the hypernet now requires at least one Heuristic specialist with the ability to unify all his circuited EIs through portals. The best model uses a circuited EI race of chasises which are incredibly large and hold all the needed transformers in their bodies. They first one needs to be made by someone with the 10th level ability of the biollurgy PrC that passes on transformers and engines to its children. Also, there is a user interface upgrade in the imachination PrC. This version reduces the actual cost of the hypernet to a reasonable level, but requires 2 17th level gramarists.

As gramarie stands, this is still the best from of internet, television, radio, telephone, soup kitchen, or secret spy network that one could have. If you want a version with less spellouts, invent new principles or applications of principles.

[The Tyler]

The general consensus, both times, if I recall, was yes there should be, then the conversation moved on. Your question was not adressed any deeper than that. But you know what? Make it yourself if you feel like it. However, Tyler seems to have further addressed your specific waterfall point.

I sort of glanced through some info on sound volume and decibels on Wikipedia and through general internet searches, but if I'm understanding it correctly, it doesn't seem to scale simply between real world and game system. For example, the loudest recorded lion's roar is 114 dB, which according to the guidelines from Ghost Sound and Create Sound is equivalent to 16 humans. However, general human speech is around 60 dB for a single individual, so volume doesn't simply double. Also, the spell description covers running, talking, and shouting, along with a few other sounds, all under the umbrella of 'four regular creatures' when in reality, those sounds are all different volumes. Also, volume changes based on distance, which would affect the input.



Also, the hypernet now requires at least one Heuristic specialist with the ability to unify all his circuited EIs through portals. The best model uses a circuited EI race of chasises which are incredibly large and hold all the needed transformers in their bodies. They first one needs to be made by someone with the 10th level ability of the biollurgy PrC that passes on transformers and engines to its children. Also, there is a user interface upgrade in the imachination PrC. This version reduces the actual cost of the hypernet to a reasonable level, but requires 2 17th level gramarists.

As gramarie stands, this is still the best from of internet, television, radio, telephone, soup kitchen, or secret spy network that one could have. If you want a version with less spellouts, invent new principles or applications of principles.

It only needs the Heuristic PrC if you want a single circuit to expand through a portal. I don't see why you couldn't connect two circuits together at the portal. Especially if a single piece of gramarie can be connected to multiple circuits (in this case, the portal).

Imachination covers television and movie production very well, maybe even for cheaper than our own world. Even radio, really. The biggest issue is transmission.

Transmission and scaling are the biggest hindrances to the internet using gramarie.

There's a handful of ways it could be done. Linking circuits at the portals of semi-spaces and demiplanes is one way and using puissance to communicate between circuits in binary, replacing electricity. Another is a copper out transformer functioning either as a router or to make copper wiring (1 cu foot is a lot of copper wiring) and using electricity to communicate in binary between circuits.

I have a number of ideas how to make it work, I'm just a little unsure on some of the details still.

[Proud Tortoise]

I keep having ideas for grammarie settings, but then discarding them because of the existence of Yygdratechture. A single portal from one continent to another renders obselete just about every vehicle ever. :smallmad:

I know what I'm going to do. Grammarie can only be performed by a certain race. That race has subraces, each of which specializes in a different area of grammarie. The yggdratechture specialists, however, are in opposition to the rest of civilization and are not a playable race.

There, that wasn't so hard. Except for the problem of universalists...

[Omnicrat]

It only needs the Heuristic PrC if you want a single circuit to expand through a portal. I don't see why you couldn't connect two circuits together at the portal. Especially if a single piece of gramarie can be connected to multiple circuits (in this case, the portal).

Imachination covers television and movie production very well, maybe even for cheaper than our own world. Even radio, really. The biggest issue is transmission.

Transmission and scaling are the biggest hindrances to the internet using gramarie.

There's a handful of ways it could be done. Linking circuits at the portals of semi-spaces and demiplanes is one way and using puissance to communicate between circuits in binary, replacing electricity. Another is a copper out transformer functioning either as a router or to make copper wiring (1 cu foot is a lot of copper wiring) and using electricity to communicate in binary between circuits.

I have a number of ideas how to make it work, I'm just a little unsure on some of the details still.

Portals do not connect to circuits, unless I missed something. Regardless, I do not believe one thing can be controlled by two EIs at the same time. EIs being able to interact with one another is a specific 10th level ability of the Heurisitcs PrC, so it can't be done without that ability. If you want to have it all be run by a single EI, it would have to be incredibly small scale based upon the limitation of how many things EIs can do in any given round.

Without the Imachination PrC, imachination user interfaces, while not impossible, are impractical. Also, practicality is greatly reduced as each principle has to be prepared individually for each terminus point. In my current model, the transformers need only be prepared once and the breeding circuited chassi make up each terminus point.

At the end of the day, the most logical decisions a non-upgraded EI can make are 100. That's ever six seconds. That is no where near enough for any form of binary (which is incredibly inefficient for EIs to use regardless) to function well. You would be better off with Morse code, but that is still limiting.

As it stands right now, silverouts are the best method and are a legitimate form of gramarie. Even still, the cheapest and easiest to make version still requires two level 17 gramarist, minimum. You could probably jury rig something using just 101 principles if you tried REALLY HARD, and you could almost certainly make something that is incredibly expensive that would be passable using only 200 principles. Once you get EIs, its still incredibly expensive, but much more doable.

The only way to have it be as ubiquitous as the internet that I see is the model I've outlined. If you want it to be the preview of kings or only available to the masses on a public scale in large cities (public scale as in you get to go see a movie, not you have a TV/telephone in your house) than you can definitely pull something off at lower levels with less specialization.

[Draken]

I keep having ideas for grammarie settings, but then discarding them because of the existence of Yygdratechture. A single portal from one continent to another renders obselete just about every vehicle ever. :smallmad:

For long range transportation, yes. Such portals would likely overtake ships and planes for commercial purposes.

Ships, planes, cars, horses, etc, would still have plenty of uses for short range transportation (inside cities, neighbouring cities, countryside), to get to anywhere that YggdraCorp/The Glorious Government has not managed/bothered to set portals to. The vehicles would still serve their military purposes as well.

[Omnicrat]

For long range transportation, yes. Such portals would likely overtake ships and planes for commercial purposes.

Ships, planes, cars, horses, etc, would still have plenty of uses for short range transportation (inside cities, neighbouring cities, countryside), to get to anywhere that YggdraCorp/The Glorious Government has not managed/bothered to set portals to. The vehicles would still serve their military purposes as well.

But even then, the best vehicle is a small box with a portal in it so that you never leave your home till you're at your destination.

[Zireael]

I don't think you can fit a portal in a box. At least, if it's allowed, I think that should require a very high level and a mastery feat...

[Draken]

But even then, the best vehicle is a small box with a portal in it so that you never leave your home till you're at your destination.

How is the box arriving where you want it to?

[Exthalion]

Ultimately, it will likely remain cheaper to have other means of transportation. In addition to the limited width of the portal there are only so many. Meaning that sending bulk cargoes by ship between continents will remain viable for the same reason we don't send everything by plane even though it is much faster.

[Amechra]

Have you ever read Pandora's Star or Hyperion? Both are sci-fi books that explore the idea of settings where things are connected via portals.

One point is that you need someone to get to the other location before you can open the portals...

Hyperion is also an awesome example of the kind of weird architecture you can get up to; the main trade route is a river that flows through massive portals in a loop through several planets, and the wealthy routinely have houses where each room is on a different planet.

[Omnicrat]

How is the box arriving where you want it to?

A few ways. At higher levels, an EI pilot. At mid levels, programed courses (if you don't mind only going to a few places) or a complex control point that lets you set destinations and leave. Since portal aren't an option before then, there doesn't need to be a lower level way of doing it.

Though the best vehicle is by far the gravity powered air ship. It uses directional gravity fluxes and large amounts of heavy matter in semispaces.

[Draken]

A few ways. At higher levels, an EI pilot. At mid levels, programed courses (if you don't mind only going to a few places) or a complex control point that lets you set destinations and leave. Since portal aren't an option before then, there doesn't need to be a lower level way of doing it.

Though the best vehicle is by far the gravity powered air ship. It uses directional gravity fluxes and large amounts of heavy matter in semispaces.

So yes, what this means is that for the most part, conventional transports (such as say, horses with a hired driver) remain in use for most people, since most people never get to level 14, when doctorate principles show up, or have the money to spend on hiring someone that powerful or buying stuff made by such exclusive service providers*.

Really, just because something is avaiable doesn't mean it is avaiable to most people.

* By the way, I am of the opinion that the prices for gramarie are stupid low.

[The Tyler]

Portals do not connect to circuits, unless I missed something. Regardless, I do not believe one thing can be controlled by two EIs at the same time. EIs being able to interact with one another is a specific 10th level ability of the Heurisitcs PrC, so it can't be done without that ability. If you want to have it all be run by a single EI, it would have to be incredibly small scale based upon the limitation of how many things EIs can do in any given round.

No, you're right. They connect to the space itself. And you can use circuits without an EI. Given the wording of the ability you're talking about (which applies to circuits and not just EI), I'd assume that no, you can't connect two circuits to a single device (because then they'd be overlapping which is specifically what that ability allows).

You don't need to have an EI directly control the circuit. You can program the circuit using HEUR 266. This bypasses the limits of 100 logical decisions/round a EI is limited to. It's computer programming.



Without the Imachination PrC, imachination user interfaces, while not impossible, are impractical. Also, practicality is greatly reduced as each principle has to be prepared individually for each terminus point. In my current model, the transformers need only be prepared once and the breeding circuited chassi make up each terminus point.

Which of the PrC abilities are you talking about? I think I keep missing it. And yes, some of the higher level abilities make it more efficient, but it can be done with less.


At the end of the day, the most logical decisions a non-upgraded EI can make are 100. That's ever six seconds. That is no where near enough for any form of binary (which is incredibly inefficient for EIs to use regardless) to function well. You would be better off with Morse code, but that is still limiting.

That's if you're using an EI to make those decisions. If you program them in with HEUR 266 it becomes much more efficient and the EI is free to make other decisions.


As it stands right now, silverouts are the best method and are a legitimate form of gramarie. Even still, the cheapest and easiest to make version still requires two level 17 gramarist, minimum. You could probably jury rig something using just 101 principles if you tried REALLY HARD, and you could almost certainly make something that is incredibly expensive that would be passable using only 200 principles. Once you get EIs, its still incredibly expensive, but much more doable.

I'm not sure I agree that silver outs re the best method. And yes, they're legitimate, but if I'm going to use silver outs, why use gramarie at all to make it? I can just use the spells themselves or make magic items.


The only way to have it be as ubiquitous as the internet that I see is the model I've outlined. If you want it to be the preview of kings or only available to the masses on a public scale in large cities (public scale as in you get to go see a movie, not you have a TV/telephone in your house) than you can definitely pull something off at lower levels with less specialization.

Yes, using binary is inefficient. It's inefficient for computers too, but they're so quick it isn't as noticeable. The biggest two limits on the system that I currently see are data storage and reproduction and bandwidth.

As it is, when someone programs something on a computer, it doesn't take the same amount of time to reproduce it a second time. However, because gramarie doesn't have a means of data storage, every time you program a circuit with instructions, you have to rewrite it from scratch.

That issue is also what makes TV difficult to reproduce as well. Yes, you can automate the reproduction, but it takes twice as long to automate as it does to produce and then the production time for each instance it produces.

Ultimately, you're not going to build the internet by yourself.

[Necroticplague]

Wouldn't the existence of blueprints make availability a mostly moot point?As long as you have one person with the capability, she can make blueprints for other people so that the work becomes more common.200 principles can be made almost as common as 100. Admittedly, this would require the high level gramarist actively working to obsolete themselves, but we've already had that argument before.

[Omnicrat]

So yes, what this means is that for the most part, conventional transports (such as say, horses with a hired driver) remain in use for most people, since most people never get to level 14, when doctorate principles show up, or have the money to spend on hiring someone that powerful or buying stuff made by such exclusive service providers*.

Really, just because something is avaiable doesn't mean it is avaiable to most people.

* By the way, I am of the opinion that the prices for gramarie are stupid low.

A gravity portal ship is makeable at level 7, so I have no idea where you got 14 from. Still, it would be easy for nation to connect all their major cities with portals and have massive gravity powered public transportation networks of piloted portals.

Gramarie is priced with PC gramarists in mind, not PCs (or NPCs for that matter) trying to buy gramarie.

[Draken]

A gravity portal ship is makeable at level 7, so I have no idea where you got 14 from. Still, it would be easy for nation to connect all their major cities with portals and have massive gravity powered public transportation networks of piloted portals.

Gramarie is priced with PC gramarists in mind, not PCs (or trying to buy gramarie.

Doctorate is needed to make the exotic intelligences, I mean. The airship can be made at magisterial, sure.

And there are missing letters in the second paragraph. But the intended meaning notwithstanding. Those pricings are one serious problem. As long as they are the way they are, economy becomes weird in gramarie worlds.

[Exthalion]

Given that Einstein was a level 4 or 5 Expert with Skill Focus Physics, we can probably say with some safety that nations cannot afford to link major cities with magic airships for the simple reason that the number of people able to produce magic airships are so vanishingly small that they can charge whatever they want for anything they do.

Even in Forgotten Realms where there are multiple epic level casters running around major governments don't have high level wizards on retainer because high level wizards have better things to do than subsidize urban development. They can also kill elephants with teaspoons before they start using class features so forcing them to do something is a losing proposition at best. (The Red Wizard's are an exception, but they are openly trying to rule the world with the money and favors you would end up owing them.)

One portal across continents wouldn't actually matter all that much for anyone but the small number of rich people fairly close to the ends of it who can afford the stuff from the other side.

[Geordnet]

I sort of glanced through some info on sound volume and decibels on Wikipedia and through general internet searches, but if I'm understanding it correctly, it doesn't seem to scale simply between real world and game system. For example, the loudest recorded lion's roar is 114 dB, which according to the guidelines from Ghost Sound and Create Sound is equivalent to 16 humans. However, general human speech is around 60 dB for a single individual, so volume doesn't simply double.
That's because dB is a logarithmic scale, not a linear one.

Doubling the magnitude of the sound adds ~ +3dB to the volume. So, 16 humans is 2^4 humans, making 60 + 4*3 = 72dB of sound.

[Arcanist]

A few ways. At higher levels, an EI pilot. At mid levels, programed courses (if you don't mind only going to a few places) or a complex control point that lets you set destinations and leave. Since portal aren't an option before then, there doesn't need to be a lower level way of doing it.

Though the best vehicle is by far the gravity powered air ship. It uses directional gravity fluxes and large amounts of heavy matter in semispaces.

Hmm... I thought the best vehicle was the T.A.R.D.I.S? :smalltongue:

I do like the idea of Pre-programmed, unmanned flight units and at first glance it looks like it would only require an additional Heuristic Circuit to be implemented into the ships design with a single logical decision of going traveling once the command is given and then performing a series of actions such as lifting off and traveling for a preset distance and then landing only for it to reset and require the same command.

Obviously this would require a Circuited Biollurgical chassis (most likely the ones used for the life support systems since they still continue to exhale and inhale as intended), but the idea is indeed interesting as a whole and would revolutionize how travel is performed in a world powered by Gramarie :smallamused:

Unfortunately, now you need 2 Gramarist to create this as opposed to a single Dreamason with ALCH 101, BIOY 101, HEUR 101, HEUR 245, KALD 101, KALD 207, YGGD 101, and YGGD 212. Of course the additional Gramarist makes this even easier to accomplish... Still the minimum is 9th level :smalltongue:

[Zireael]

Given that Einstein was a level 4 or 5 Expert with Skill Focus Physics, we can probably say with some safety that nations cannot afford to link major cities with magic airships for the simple reason that the number of people able to produce magic airships are so vanishingly small that they can charge whatever they want for anything they do.

Even in Forgotten Realms where there are multiple epic level casters running around major governments don't have high level wizards on retainer because high level wizards have better things to do than subsidize urban development. They can also kill elephants with teaspoons before they start using class features so forcing them to do something is a losing proposition at best. (The Red Wizard's are an exception, but they are openly trying to rule the world with the money and favors you would end up owing them.)

One portal across continents wouldn't actually matter all that much for anyone but the small number of rich people fairly close to the ends of it who can afford the stuff from the other side.

I agree about governments, but where did you get the Einstein idea?

[Omnicrat]

No, you're right. They connect to the space itself. And you can use circuits without an EI. Given the wording of the ability you're talking about (which applies to circuits and not just EI), I'd assume that no, you can't connect two circuits to a single device (because then they'd be overlapping which is specifically what that ability allows).

You don't need to have an EI directly control the circuit. You can program the circuit using HEUR 266. This bypasses the limits of 100 logical decisions/round a EI is limited to. It's computer programming.

Ah, I understand now. That is quite clever. You could set up a HEUR 302 to make your HEUR 266 for a more rapid production of the system.


Which of the PrC abilities are you talking about? I think I keep missing it. And yes, some of the higher level abilities make it more efficient, but it can be done with less.

Huh... I can't seem to find it... It let you have a new imachination function that worked really well for making a pipboy or tablet screen or more stuff like that.


That's if you're using an EI to make those decisions. If you program them in with HEUR 266 it becomes much more efficient and the EI is free to make other decisions.

Already talked about the cleverness of this.


I'm not sure I agree that silver outs re the best method. And yes, they're legitimate, but if I'm going to use silver outs, why use gramarie at all to make it? I can just use the spells themselves or make magic items.

A few reasons. 1) At-will spell producing magic items are rare and severely limited. 2) The spells themselves would need a court of casters present at all times for no purpose but to cast these spells when called upon. 3) Gramarie is cheap. Especially if you have the ability to make the best model, which has a one time investment followed by infinite resources.


Yes, using binary is inefficient. It's inefficient for computers too, but they're so quick it isn't as noticeable. The biggest two limits on the system that I currently see are data storage and reproduction and bandwidth.

As it is, when someone programs something on a computer, it doesn't take the same amount of time to reproduce it a second time. However, because gramarie doesn't have a means of data storage, every time you program a circuit with instructions, you have to rewrite it from scratch.

That issue is also what makes TV difficult to reproduce as well. Yes, you can automate the reproduction, but it takes twice as long to automate as it does to produce and then the production time for each instance it produces.

Ultimately, you're not going to build the internet by yourself.

Two things (that kinda run counter to my argument, but I still think I'm right). 1) EIs remember everything (it would seem) so they know exactly what the binary pulses are showing them, even if they can't make them effectively. This means that after a brief training course (or some hardwireing into their initial program) they can know every single thing that could be sent via a binary link and what they're supposed to do with it. You forget that gramarie has the best data storage in the universe; the mind of an EI. 2) Regardless of that, you realize that an hour of video taking two hours to download, basically, is significantly better than the internet of 20 years ago, right? You still don't have a good way to get telephones, nourishment, chat rooms, or even forums, but its a lot better than you're giving it credit for.


Doctorate is needed to make the exotic intelligences, I mean. The airship can be made at magisterial, sure.

And there are missing letters in the second paragraph. But the intended meaning notwithstanding. Those pricings are one serious problem. As long as they are the way they are, economy becomes weird in gramarie worlds.

Fixed the post. Well, if you can make a solution that doesn't let the PCs become wealthier than the gods themselves and doesn't let every small town keep a few gramarists on retainer, I'm sure we would all be happy to use it.


Hmm... I thought the best vehicle was the T.A.R.D.I.S? :smalltongue:

I do like the idea of Pre-programmed, unmanned flight units and at first glance it looks like it would only require an additional Heuristic Circuit to be implemented into the ships design with a single logical decision of going traveling once the command is given and then performing a series of actions such as lifting off and traveling for a preset distance and then landing only for it to reset and require the same command.

Obviously this would require a Circuited Biollurgical chassis (most likely the ones used for the life support systems since they still continue to exhale and inhale as intended), but the idea is indeed interesting as a whole and would revolutionize how travel is performed in a world powered by Gramarie :smallamused:

Unfortunately, now you need 2 Gramarist to create this as opposed to a single Dreamason with ALCH 101, BIOY 101, HEUR 101, HEUR 245, KALD 101, KALD 207, YGGD 101, and YGGD 212. Of course the additional Gramarist makes this even easier to accomplish... Still the minimum is 9th level :smalltongue:

When I said TaRDiS, this is what I ment. :smallwink:

That's if you make it need all that stuff. It could easily be made with YGGD 101 and 212 and nothing else. Now, it is made easier by inclusion of ALCH 101 for ease of making the craft light and the "propulsion" heavy, but its not needed. Instead of using gramarie for the rest, you can do something a bit out of place for a gramarie campaign... Clockwork. It might be a bit bulky, but its probably cheaper and easier (assuming a gramarie setting bothered with clockwork at all, which it should) than a bunch of principles would be when the whole of piloting consists of moving physical objects with semispaces attached to them.

[Exthalion]

I agree about governments, but where did you get the Einstein idea?

From here: http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2

[Zireael]

From here: http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2

I know Alexandrian. He has some good ideas. This one, however, is subject to much debate. Personally, I'd place Einstein around 10th level expert.

[Omnicrat]

I know Alexandrian. He has some good ideas. This one, however, is subject to much debate. Personally, I'd place Einstein around 10th level expert.

Did you read his example? Which is specific to Einstein? Which reproduces exactly what Einstein did with a 5th level expert?

[Zireael]

Did you read his example? Which is specific to Einstein? Which reproduces exactly what Einstein did with a 5th level expert?

I read it. It works for Einstein and for the hypothesed jumper. However, as I said, it's subject to much debate. Personally, I don't think he's right.

[Exthalion]

I know Alexandrian. He has some good ideas. This one, however, is subject to much debate. Personally, I'd place Einstein around 10th level expert.

May I ask why? I have no strong opinion on either 5 or 10, but I have his Alexandrian's reason and not yours.

[Omnicrat]

I know Alexandrian. He has some good ideas. This one, however, is subject to much debate. Personally, I'd place Einstein around 10th level expert.


I read it. It works for Einstein and for the hypothesed jumper. However, as I said, it's subject to much debate. Personally, I don't think he's right.

:smallconfused:

[Arcanist]

When I said TaRDiS, this is what I ment. :smallwink:

It doesn't become a TARDIS until a Chrononaut has his way with it :smallbiggrin:


That's if you make it need all that stuff. It could easily be made with YGGD 101 and 212 and nothing else. Now, it is made easier by inclusion of ALCH 101 for ease of making the craft light and the "propulsion" heavy, but its not needed. Instead of using gramarie for the rest, you can do something a bit out of place for a gramarie campaign... Clockwork. It might be a bit bulky, but its probably cheaper and easier (assuming a gramarie setting bothered with clockwork at all, which it should) than a bunch of principles would be when the whole of piloting consists of moving physical objects with semispaces attached to them.

Actually without HEUR 245 you cannot control your Flux through the Semi-space allowing the vessel to travel. Meaning that without it, it can only go in one direction.

ALCH 101 is necessary for making the Hull of the ship much more durable, more heat resistant, sturdier and harder. Unless of course you wish for your Semi-space to be torn to pieces the moment it enters and asteroid field. Also you need for a way for oxygen to remain inside of your Semi-space (not sure if an air flow is maintained through the connections, but better safe than sorry).

Thankfully due to the Sage Ruling, the object will be able to travel at about 500ft per round without any assistance so that is all good. Unless of course you want to set up a submerging engine (remember, it pushes you towards gravity) to travel faster, but then you would need an additional Gramarist to assist in it's construction.

I wouldn't add a piece of Gramarie to the TARDIS unless it was absolutely necessary for it's flight and sustainability. :smalltongue: I like working with Time and Space with Gramarie. Giving more time and less time and so on and so forth, working with Fast and Slow Time Demiplanes, Quicksilver, Eldrikinetic Engines that can travel at the speed of light (working on it) that work with Fluxes to grant it more speed and so on and so forth... Wonder if Alch can be used to convince Electrons to gather together into a ball? ... *sigh* 3 months... :smallfrown:

[Omnicrat]

It doesn't become a TARDIS until a Chrononaut has his way with it :smallbiggrin:

I forgot about your timelord PrC... It would probably stand better as a 10 level PrC, just to give more timelordy abilities.


Actually without HEUR 245 you cannot control your Flux through the Semi-space allowing the vessel to travel. Meaning that without it, it can only go in one direction.

:smallconfused:...Perhaps I was not clear. The "box" has 5 static fluxes, one on each side. You physically move semispaces attached to metal sheets over blocks of heavy substance X. The weight of Heavy substance X on the roof and sides should be equal, as well as being greater than the weight of the central box, preferably by a factor of 2. This lets you move in all directions faster than you would be able to using engines.


ALCH 101 is necessary for making the Hull of the ship much more durable, more heat resistant, sturdier and harder. Unless of course you wish for your Semi-space to be torn to pieces the moment it enters and asteroid field. Also you need for a way for oxygen to remain inside of your Semi-space (not sure if an air flow is maintained through the connections, but better safe than sorry).

:smallconfused:...This makes even less sense. I'm not sure what you mean, at all. You don't need ALCH 101 for in-planet flight. As for making it a space fairing vessel, you can add a gravity down flux in the **** pit/only thing on that side of the portal and oxygen will come through the portal.


Thankfully due to the Sage Ruling, the object will be able to travel at about 500ft per round without any assistance so that is all good. Unless of course you want to set up a submerging engine (remember, it pushes you towards gravity) to travel faster, but then you would need an additional Gramarist to assist in it's construction.

Or just put iron engines in part of the box that has gravity pointing down instead of sideways to both fall and have the bonus power of engines.


I wouldn't add a piece of Gramarie to the TARDIS unless it was absolutely necessary for it's flight and sustainability. :smalltongue: I like working with Time and Space with Gramarie. Giving more time and less time and so on and so forth, working with Fast and Slow Time Demiplanes, Quicksilver, Eldrikinetic Engines that can travel at the speed of light (working on it) that work with Fluxes to grant it more speed and so on and so forth... Wonder if Alch can be used to convince Electrons to gather together into a ball? ... *sigh* 3 months... :smallfrown:

I think the problem here is two-fold. Earlier, I said the best ship a gramarist could make is a TaRDiS. Which is true. That takes a lot of principles, but nothing beats it. What I'm talking about with draken is the most efficient vessel two level 7 gramarists can make, which is two Yggdratects making a portal box in their back yard. If there were only two level seven Yggdratect in the whole world, they could make 1 of these a day, if they did nothing else. Now, if your setting only has a handful of Yggdratects, or gramarists for that mater, at or above level seven, then these portal ships would be exceedingly rare, as a year of labor with no days off gets you only 365 boxes. Now, if you're in a setting where gramarie is more prevalent, lets say there are only 200 gramarists with the necessary principles in the entire world (what I would call a very low number). If they all took one week to make boxes, thats 700 boxes in the world. Gramatic pricing aside, moving portals are probably one of the most sought after things in a world of gramarie (at least a mid-level one), so it makes sense that people would make as many of them as they could. Even if we assume 8 hour work days and half of the gramarist who can make boxes choose not to for whatever reasons, thats still 25 a day. After 4 years, there would be at most 1461 portal ships in the world. It is not unreasonable that cities and nations would have several of these that flew around the country side between the towns too small to have permanent portals.