She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

[Arcanist]

I forgot about your timelord PrC... It would probably stand better as a 10 level PrC, just to give more timelordy abilities.

No thanks, I'd rather not make a Gramarie based prestige class again. Feel free to do with it as you would. For now, I'll make DW based Gramarie, unfortunately for now Time Travel is a distant dream (excluding using the brokenly powerful SilverOut with Teleport Through Time).


:smallconfused:...Perhaps I was not clear. The "box" has 5 static fluxes, one on each side. You physically move semispaces attached to metal sheets over blocks of heavy substance X. The weight of Heavy substance X on the roof and sides should be equal, as well as being greater than the weight of the central box, preferably by a factor of 2. This lets you move in all directions faster than you would be able to using engines.

I'm still not understanding your ships design, but if I am gathering this correctly you are planning for a Semispace that is tethered to a mobile object (a rock for example) and connecting multiple Gravity Fluxes pointing towards multiple directions (5 on each of the 6 sides assuming it is a standard box and includes one on the side with the Semi-space portal) to allow the bounded semi-space to travel in any dimension the Gravity Fluxes are pointing towards. You would then proceed to take heavy objects and place them inside the fluxes attacked to a lever that can be used to remove the object out of the flux to allow for a limited level of steering.

Paint a picture for me, because I'm not getting this design. The way you are describing it to me paints a picture of a box with metal boxes outside of it and a massive field of gravity pushing everything away from it. I'm also curious how landing works for this vessel... It seems to be a very primitive TARDIS to say the least :smallconfused:

It feels like we are going back to basics where we originally just had a man surrounded by a Gravity Flux and he controlled it like that to get to where he needed to be (dismissed because it can't go wherever it needs to go).


:smallconfused:...This makes even less sense. I'm not sure what you mean, at all. You don't need ALCH 101 for in-planet flight. As for making it a space fairing vessel, you can add a gravity down flux in the **** pit/only thing on that side of the portal and oxygen will come through the portal.

The TARDIS was originally designed to be able to traverse through space since, at the time, that was one of my major interest for this piece of Homebrew.

The door is actually an Orange Filter that prevents gasses from getting in or out of the vessel. The Biollurgical Structures took care of the rest of balancing out the Oxygen:Carbon dioxide ratio. ALCH 101 being used is not just for crashing into spatial hazards, it is for crashing into any hazard (like the ground, the mountains, anything really) and taking that 20d6 damage to the semi-space and potentially killing you (If memory serves the Orange filter also captures the oxygen from your lungs as well).

Adding in that internal flux inside the Semi-space is unnecessary since I don't believe Gravity transits through Semi-space.


Or just put iron engines in part of the box that has gravity pointing down instead of sideways to both fall and have the bonus power of engines.

D'oh! Talk about missing the obvious :smalltongue:


I think the problem here is two-fold. Earlier, I said the best ship a gramarist could make is a TaRDiS. Which is true. That takes a lot of principles, but nothing beats it. What I'm talking about with draken is the most efficient vessel two level 7 gramarists can make, which is two Yggdratects making a portal box in their back yard. If there were only two level seven Yggdratect in the whole world, they could make 1 of these a day, if they did nothing else. Now, if your setting only has a handful of Yggdratects, or gramarists for that mater, at or above level seven, then these portal ships would be exceedingly rare, as a year of labor with no days off gets you only 365 boxes. Now, if you're in a setting where gramarie is more prevalent, lets say there are only 200 gramarists with the necessary principles in the entire world (what I would call a very low number). If they all took one week to make boxes, thats 700 boxes in the world. Gramatic pricing aside, moving portals are probably one of the most sought after things in a world of gramarie (at least a mid-level one), so it makes sense that people would make as many of them as they could. Even if we assume 8 hour work days and half of the gramarist who can make boxes choose not to for whatever reasons, thats still 25 a day. After 4 years, there would be at most 1461 portal ships in the world. It is not unreasonable that cities and nations would have several of these that flew around the country side between the towns too small to have permanent portals.

I am not seeing a problem beyond the notion that the TARDIS requires to much Gramarie to be a fully functional vessel in any setting. It is more for a specialized group of people or one person and one person alone.

Having said that I must admit, I am highly interested in your thoughts towards a less time consuming vessel.

A more clunky design for it would be making a HUGE Flux surrounded by, say a battleship, and manually controlling it like that (with the inside of the ship having its own downward flux).

The reason you need to be such a high level is because you need to be able to use the Dreamason's Rabbit Hole ability to control the flux from inside the Semi-Space/Demiplane.

Note: While writing this comment, I thought up a design for a more Combat orientated vessel that combines Biollurgy, Yggdratecture, Hueristicism and Arcanodynamics to get something resembling Iron Man. Not sure if I thought that up or someone else already made the design and I'm just recalling it. Tell me your thoughts before I blueprint it up :smallconfused:

[Omnicrat]

I'm still not understanding your ships design, but if I am gathering this correctly you are planning for a Semispace that is tethered to a mobile object (a rock for example) and connecting multiple Gravity Fluxes pointing towards multiple directions (5 on each of the 6 sides assuming it is a standard box and includes one on the side with the Semi-space portal) to allow the bounded semi-space to travel in any dimension the Gravity Fluxes are pointing towards. You would then proceed to take heavy objects and place them inside the fluxes attacked to a lever that can be used to remove the object out of the flux to allow for a limited level of steering.

Paint a picture for me, because I'm not getting this design. The way you are describing it to me paints a picture of a box with metal boxes outside of it and a massive field of gravity pushing everything away from it. I'm also curious how landing works for this vessel... It seems to be a very primitive TARDIS to say the least :smallconfused:

It feels like we are going back to basics where we originally just had a man surrounded by a Gravity Flux and he controlled it like that to get to where he needed to be (dismissed because it can't go wherever it needs to go).

Okay, you have a metal box. Lets say... 15ft tall, 5 ft wide, 5ft deep. On one side you have a door. You open this door, and in the back of the door you create a portal to location X. Let us say the box weighs 1000 pounds, including the pilot (a warforged here for the sake of the heaviest likely pilot). On the roof and within the top 5 feet of the 4 sides place 5 blocks of solid Substance, each weighing 2000 pound (or less if you don't want to plan around warforged/have it not be exactly 2x the base weight but still be greater than the base weight). The total volume of these blocks must not be greater than a 2-foot cube. Create 5 2x2 sheets of metal. On one side, place a semispace. Slide each sheet of metal over one block. In the top 5ft cube of the ship, create a programmable clockwork mechanism or a pilotable lever based method. Finally, create 5 gravity fluxes, each facing out from the box in such a way that the box is not within these fluxes itself, but the semispace sheets and Substance contained within them would be. This vessel is flown by moving the semispaces so that Substance creates a net negative weight with regard to planar gravity to gain lift and revel Substance on the sides you wish to travel in the direction of. If programmable, set the program to fly to whatever location you wish for which there is a program. If pilotable, before each trip to a new place do the math to determine how much Substance must be relieved at what times to get you to your destination and record this information for future trips.

This is meant to be the simplest easiest to make portal ship.


The TARDIS was originally designed to be able to traverse through space since, at the time, that was one of my major interest for this piece of Homebrew.

The door is actually an Orange Filter that prevents gasses from getting in or out of the vessel. The Biollurgical Structures took care of the rest of balancing out the Oxygen:Carbon dioxide ratio. ALCH 101 being used is not just for crashing into spatial hazards, it is for crashing into any hazard (like the ground, the mountains, anything really) and taking that 20d6 damage to the semi-space and potentially killing you (If memory serves the Orange filter also captures the oxygen from your lungs as well).

Adding in that internal flux inside the Semi-space is unnecessary since I don't believe Gravity transits through Semi-space.

Ah. Here is the problem. You are saying TARDIS as a specific piece of homebrew you made (which I forgot about [sorry]) where as I am saying TaRDiS as a general term for a very advanced planeshifting flying box.


I am not seeing a problem beyond the notion that the TARDIS requires to much Gramarie to be a fully functional vessel in any setting. It is more for a specialized group of people or one person and one person alone.

Having said that I must admit, I am highly interested in your thoughts towards a less time consuming vessel.

A more clunky design for it would be making a HUGE Flux surrounded by, say a battleship, and manually controlling it like that (with the inside of the ship having its own downward flux).

The point of this is to have the simplest, easiest possible flying portal ship.

That design would work too, and would be great for larger vessels.


The reason you need to be such a high level is because you need to be able to use the Dreamason's Rabbit Hole ability to control the flux from inside the Semi-Space/Demiplane.

But you don't. Heuristics are not even used in the model I layed out.


Note: While writing this comment, I thought up a design for a more Combat orientated vessel that combines Biollurgy, Yggdratecture, Hueristicism and Arcanodynamics to get something resembling Iron Man. Not sure if I thought that up or someone else already made the design and I'm just recalling it. Tell me your thoughts before I blueprint it up :smallconfused:

I don't remember someone doing it, but it should work. My idea for power armor involved a very special races of chassi. No cockpits.

[Arcanist]

Okay, you have a metal box. Lets say... 15ft tall, 5 ft wide, 5ft deep. On one side you have a door. You open this door, and in the back of the door you create a portal to location X. Let us say the box weighs 1000 pounds, including the pilot (a warforged here for the sake of the heaviest likely pilot). On the roof and within the top 5 feet of the 4 sides place 5 blocks of solid Substance, each weighing 2000 pound (or less if you don't want to plan around warforged/have it not be exactly 2x the base weight but still be greater than the base weight). The total volume of these blocks must not be greater than a 2-foot cube. Create 5 2x2 sheets of metal. On one side, place a semispace. Slide each sheet of metal over one block. In the top 5ft cube of the ship, create a programmable clockwork mechanism or a pilotable lever based method. Finally, create 5 gravity fluxes, each facing out from the box in such a way that the box is not within these fluxes itself, but the semispace sheets and Substance contained within them would be. This vessel is flown by moving the semispaces so that Substance creates a net negative weight with regard to planar gravity to gain lift and revel Substance on the sides you wish to travel in the direction of. If programmable, set the program to fly to whatever location you wish for which there is a program. If pilotable, before each trip to a new place do the math to determine how much Substance must be relieved at what times to get you to your destination and record this information for future trips.

This is meant to be the simplest easiest to make portal ship.

Interesting design, but it feels like the shape of the vessel is unnecessary, the Semi-space prevents the pilot from viewing outside of the vessel and requires an unnecessary level of craftsmanship to accomplish (gearing and clockwork construction).


Ah. Here is the problem. You are saying TARDIS as a specific piece of homebrew you made (which I forgot about [sorry]) where as I am saying TaRDiS as a general term for a very advanced planeshifting flying box.

I spoke out of term. Perhaps I should state the origin of the design. (also, I do not feel as though I created the TaRDiS homebrew)

During December, I was interested in making Spaceships that could travel... WELL into space and across planes. I was originally planning for it to use Eldrikinetic Engines for the pilot to fly across space and breach the atmosphere of a planet similar to Earth (67.2 km/round or 226,377.96 feet/round)... Unfortunately this is... Unnecessarily hard to do... So when I voiced what I was attempting to do, someone showed me that it would be simpler to alter gravity in the direction that they would need to go. The next step was creating a reasonable cockpit (Semi-space/Demiplane), making a way to control it (Heuristicism + Rabbit Hole), a Life Support System (Biollurgical Chassi) and other optional accessories (a Planewalking Engine, a Create Food/Water Transformer, a swimming pool, bunk beds, etc.) Eventually Doctor Who became the main inspiration for it and I just went with it and went on to create the Cybermen.

A TaRDiS is a highly specialized vessel for space and time travel and not for commercialized flights that aren't expected to enter a location without oxygen. If you want a simple commercialized flight vessel simple take a large sized boat, a medium sized bag with a chain of Semispace inside of it (for passengers) and place a Flux around the boat that can be controlled by the pilot from a Heuristicism circuit only requiring 4 principles (YGGD 101, YDDG 212, HEUR 101, and HEUR 24).

A pair of 2 7th Gramarist can make make the boat in 2 hours and the bag in an hour allowing for it a total of 8 to be produced per hour, not even accounting for Blueprint-Superconstruct mass production for the Semi-spaces and Circuits.


The point of this is to have the simplest, easiest possible flying portal ship.

No need to reinvent the wheel mate :smallsmile:


That design would work too, and would be great for larger vessels.

Indeed, making a non-space fairing vessel is easier since you don't have to worry about oxygen and the like.


But you don't. Heuristics are not even used in the model I layed out.

Which makes me question the vessels stability during a flight. It is like making a car without a steering wheel.


I don't remember someone doing it, but it should work. My idea for power armor involved a very special races of chassi. No cockpits.

It feels like it would be too massive of a leap though... :smallfrown:

[Silvernale]

So can someone explain all this ship theory and how to do it without having to read back 5 pages? :smallcool:

[Arcanist]

So can someone explain all this ship theory and how to do it without having to read back 5 pages? :smallcool:

Sea turtles mate, sea turtles... All joking aside, Space travel and normal flight, without having to burn through ebbs unnecessarily by simply altering gravity to meet your traveling demands most often through the use of YGGD 212.

... Savvy? :smallwink:

[Omnicrat]

Interesting design, but it feels like the shape of the vessel is unnecessary, the Semi-space prevents the pilot from viewing outside of the vessel and requires an unnecessary level of craftsmanship to accomplish (gearing and clockwork construction).

...There are 5 semi-spaces and 1 portal, none of which prevent the placement of a window. I have no idea what you are still not getting, but it seems there is something. Also, with regard to craftsmanship I have two words; Fabricate Spellout.


I spoke out of term. Perhaps I should state the origin of the design. (also, I do not feel as though I created the TaRDiS homebrew)

During December, I was interested in making Spaceships that could travel... WELL into space and across planes. I was originally planning for it to use Eldrikinetic Engines for the pilot to fly across space and breach the atmosphere of a planet similar to Earth (67.2 km/round or 226,377.96 feet/round)... Unfortunately this is... Unnecessarily hard to do... So when I voiced what I was attempting to do, someone showed me that it would be simpler to alter gravity in the direction that they would need to go. The next step was creating a reasonable cockpit (Semi-space/Demiplane), making a way to control it (Heuristicism + Rabbit Hole), a Life Support System (Biollurgical Chassi) and other optional accessories (a Planewalking Engine, a Create Food/Water Transformer, a swimming pool, bunk beds, etc.) Eventually Doctor Who became the main inspiration for it and I just went with it and went on to create the Cybermen.

A TaRDiS is a highly specialized vessel for space and time travel and not for commercialized flights that aren't expected to enter a location without oxygen. If you want a simple commercialized flight vessel simple take a large sized boat, a medium sized bag with a chain of Semispace inside of it (for passengers) and place a Flux around the boat that can be controlled by the pilot from a Heuristicism circuit only requiring 4 principles (YGGD 101, YDDG 212, HEUR 101, and HEUR 24).

A pair of 2 7th Gramarist can make make the boat in 2 hours and the bag in an hour allowing for it a total of 8 to be produced per hour, not even accounting for Blueprint-Superconstruct mass production for the Semi-spaces and Circuits.

I'm quite fond of gravity powered travel, so that may have been me that suggested it. If so, it was based upon a different version of the above design.

Now, for your quick and easy ship, there are some problems. When you say semispace chain, I assume you mean the trick of creating semispaces in other semispaces instead of connecting them, right? Which would mean you can get an infinitely (theoretically) long corridor of semispaces. If that's how you're going to have your passengers get around, you would need to perpair 3 semispaces for every one passenger you hope to have, and even still they would be very cramped. This means you need 3 hours of prep time per passenger you want. No idea where you got your numbers from.

Another thing, with only one flux controlling the ships falling, you're not able to remain stationary and all steering is next to impossible. This is why my ship uses 5 fluxes, natural gravity, and a lot of weight. Stability and control. Good luck figuring out how to land your ship without it crashing.

Also, this isn't a portal ship at all, so there is that.


No need to reinvent the wheel mate :smallsmile:

I'm pretty sure my model pre-dates whatever you think I'm reinventing. This is from the first gramarie campaign. Granted, its a scaled down version, but still.

[QUOTE=Arcanist;15062007]Indeed, making a non-space fairing vessel is easier since you don't have to worry about oxygen and the like.

Not like oxygen is a problem with gramarie.


Which makes me question the vessels stability during a flight. It is like making a car without a steering wheel.

:smallconfused: Are you really questioning my vessels stability when yours is unidirectional uncontrolled falling? And mine does have steering. In fact, the way mine works (which is MUCH more controlled) it couldn't be done with heuristics.


It feels like it would be too massive of a leap though... :smallfrown:

Is it a PrC or a trick? Mine is a trick.


Edit

So can someone explain all this ship theory and how to do it without having to read back 5 pages? :smallcool:

What is it your not getting?

[Saidoro]

...There are 5 semi-spaces and 1 portal, none of which prevent the placement of a window. I have no idea what you are still not getting, but it seems there is something. Also, with regard to craftsmanship I have two words; Fabricate Spellout.
The problem is not one of time but of quality, you're asking for reliable mechanical systems that can go from inside of your pressurized iron box to outside while making extremely precise movements over a large area. That isn't easy to do. (And I'm not at all certain silver spellouts are fair play, we already know that conventional magic is weird.)

:smallconfused: Are you really questioning my vessels stability when yours is unidirectional uncontrolled falling? And mine does have steering. In fact, the way mine works (which is MUCH more controlled) it couldn't be done with heuristics.
Set up two gravity fields around weights inside of your ship, use one heuristic field to set the vector sum of their directions in the direction you want to go with magnitude proportional to your desired acceleration. It uses less gramarie, has a significantly higher acceleration (twice as high for equally sized weights and you can make your weights much bigger) and doesn't require exposing delicate machinery to vacuum.

[Arcanist]

...There are 5 semi-spaces and 1 portal, none of which prevent the placement of a window. I have no idea what you are still not getting, but it seems there is something. Also, with regard to craftsmanship I have two words; Fabricate Spellout.

Where is the pilot sitting. Inside or outside of the Semi-space? If he is inside the Semi-space he cannot see in front of him. If he is outside, explain to me why the "levers" are inside the semi-space.

It's like an Apparatus of the Crab.


I'm quite fond of gravity powered travel, so that may have been me that suggested it. If so, it was based upon a different version of the above design.

Maybe, I don't remember who suggested it :smalltongue:


Now, for your quick and easy ship, there are some problems. When you say semispace chain, I assume you mean the trick of creating semispaces in other semispaces instead of connecting them, right? Which would mean you can get an infinitely (theoretically) long corridor of semispaces. If that's how you're going to have your passengers get around, you would need to perpair 3 semispaces for every one passenger you hope to have, and even still they would be very cramped. This means you need 3 hours of prep time per passenger you want. No idea where you got your numbers from.

Semi-spaces are fairly easy to construct en mass with Superconstruction and considering that using a Baccalaureate principle from a Blueprint requires no skill meaning that you can construct roughly 5,000 hours worth of work.

Honestly, this was the idea behind making a MASSIVE inside for a TaRDiS. :smalltongue:


Another thing, with only one flux controlling the ships falling, you're not able to remain stationary and all steering is next to impossible. This is why my ship uses 5 fluxes, natural gravity, and a lot of weight. Stability and control. Good luck figuring out how to land your ship without it crashing.

Steering with a 2-dimensional "wheel" is FAR different from steering from an omni-dimensional "wheel." The wheel in question being a Heuristic control point.

It would probably be best to add a method of shutting off the flux. I mean it's not like that would be a logical decision or anything...


Also, this isn't a portal ship at all, so there is that.

A Portal Ship is only needed for space travel. Hell, unless you're playing with Altitude sickness rules (you're not, trust me), you don't need much for sustained flight.

I am tinkering with the idea of making Curiosity type probes with Pathways to be usable for quicker and easier terraforming of Alien planets. You sir, have inspired so many ideas :smallwink:


I'm pretty sure my model pre-dates whatever you think I'm reinventing. This is from the first gramarie campaign. Granted, its a scaled down version, but still.

Well, I meant that you were trying to make new model for travel, when one already existed. It is like using a cell phone from the 80's when a Smart Phone is right in front of you.


Not like oxygen is a problem with gramarie.

You're right. Oxygen isn't a problem with Gramarie, but it is a problem for any Gramarist that enjoys oxygen in their lungs. I am not sure if gasses can traverse through a semi-space, however I am not willing to risk it and thus the Orange Filter was made.


:smallconfused: Are you really questioning my vessels stability when yours is unidirectional uncontrolled falling? And mine does have steering. In fact, the way mine works (which is MUCH more controlled) it couldn't be done with heuristics.

I am clearly missing how you're ship maintains control. I am missing how:


You turn your ship.
You land said ship (gently).
How it cannot be done with Heuristics.


A Standard actions to steer the ship into any direction you choose =/= "Unidirectional"

A Control point =/= "uncontroled"


Is it a PrC or a trick? Mine is a trick.

Basically placing a Semi-Space tethered to a Biollurgical chassis, but thinking back it can be made much more efficiently with a PrC (Groughtsmen) :smalltongue:

[Omnicrat]

edit: I wrote the new stuff at the top first.


The problem is not one of time but of quality, you're asking for reliable mechanical systems that can go from inside of your pressurized iron box to outside while making extremely precise movements over a large area. That isn't easy to do. (And I'm not at all certain silver spellouts are fair play, we already know that conventional magic is weird.)

1) Not a space ship. No where did I say this was pressurized.
2) The moments are not precise at all. They are regimented. So, move the lever till it clicks and half an inch of Substance (or whatever) is relieved equaling X weight.
3) Spellouts are legitimate gramarie until Kellus makes something different, if he ever does.


Set up two gravity fields around weights inside of your ship, use one heuristic field to set the vector sum of their directions in the direction you want to go with magnitude proportional to your desired acceleration. It uses less gramarie, has a significantly higher acceleration (twice as high for equally sized weights and you can make your weights much bigger) and doesn't require exposing delicate machinery to vacuum.

1) Maybe its just because I'm tired, but I feel like you're not fully grasping what it means that these weights are in semispaces in my model. Having a weight in a semispace means that it has no impact at all on anything. Being inside of the ship in a field that is altered by a circuit or outside of the ship that is in a static field, so long as its in a semispace it has no bearing on acceleration. Your model does not any higher acceleration at all by virtue of the things you have listed. Also, why are you saying the weight can be twice as much? I just picked a weight I thought would be able to fit in a typical semispace. If you are still using semispaces, then the weight remains the same, and if you are not it could be MUCH higher that twice as heavy. Tangentially, I'm having trouble picturing exactly where this weight is in space with regard to the ship. That's probably just the sleepiness though.
2) The gravity up weight would have to weigh at least one pound more that the weight of the vessel if you want any form of upward acceleration. You also need a heuristic control panel. Assuming you got this to work as well as my model without semispacing the weights (which I find dubious) then you are using significantly less gramarie. Otherwise its only three less principles. Which isn't nothing. Hm... I'll have to check in the morning, but I think that it could be brought inside the ship with your model. The problem is that you now need 3 level 7 gramarists instead of just two. Hm... Yours seems better (would take a lot more calculation to determine how much Substance is revield and when so that you don't overshoot destinations and have to back track) but mine is good enough for what my goal was; The best possible portal ship with the least possible work.
3) Still not a space ship.


Where is the pilot sitting. Inside or outside of the Semi-space? If he is inside the Semi-space he cannot see in front of him. If he is outside, explain to me why the "levers" are inside the semi-space.

It's like an Apparatus of the Crab.

There are no levers inside any semispaces! I honestly have no idea where you got that from. I never said that. I am very confused by what you think... There is a portal for getting from inside the ship to fixed location X, then there is the inside of the ship. There are semispaces on the outside of the ship, who's positions relative to the ship are controlled by levers. They move so that more, less, or no weight is present inside each flux.


Semi-spaces are fairly easy to construct en mass with Superconstruction and considering that using a Baccalaureate principle from a Blueprint requires no skill meaning that you can construct roughly 5,000 hours worth of work.

Honestly, this was the idea behind making a MASSIVE inside for a TaRDiS. :smalltongue:

... I don't think you're supposed to be able to do that... Even if you can, you would have to make all of those blueprints, and it would be a net lose in time.


Steering with a 2-dimensional "wheel" is FAR different from steering from an omni-dimensional "wheel." The wheel in question being a Heuristic control point.

It would probably be best to add a method of shutting off the flux. I mean it's not like that would be a logical decision or anything...

1) A car does not fly. A plane does not have a two-dimensional steering apparatus. When you need to maintain a 3rd dimension, you need to operate in three dimensions. If you only have one flux, your ship can either only go up and down, slide along the ground while falling vertically, or fall towards the earth while also falling vertically.
2) In my model, all fluxes are virtually inert for all practical purposes unless you move the semispace covers to introduce weight into them, and you only do that when you want to move.


A Portal Ship is only needed for space travel. Hell, unless you're playing with Altitude sickness rules (you're not, trust me), you don't need much for sustained flight.

I am tinkering with the idea of making Curiosity type probes with Pathways to be usable for quicker and easier terraforming of Alien planets. You sir, have inspired so many ideas :smallwink:

??? How can you possibly think portal ships are only needed for spacetravel? Exploration of your plant, for one thing. Going anyplace in the world that doesn't have portals set up to your current location for another. There is lots of reason to want to have a portal ship. Even disregarding all the stuff I just said, the Adventurers can go to wherever without leaving the comfort of their base.


Well, I meant that you were trying to make new model for travel, when one already existed. It is like using a cell phone from the 80's when a Smart Phone is right in front of you.

... This isn't new. This is old and I'm just talking about it again. I really hope your smart phone in this analogy isn't portals...


You're right. Oxygen isn't a problem with Gramarie, but it is a problem for any Gramarist that enjoys oxygen in their lungs. I am not sure if gasses can traverse through a semi-space, however I am not willing to risk it and thus the Orange Filter was made.

Lol, no. I meant its a non-problem. Worst case scenario, semispace masks containing biostructure blocks. Two first level gramarists could throw them togeather.


I am clearly missing how you're ship maintains control. I am missing how:


You turn your ship.
You land said ship (gently).
How it cannot be done with Heuristics.


A Standard actions to steer the ship into any direction you choose =/= "Unidirectional"

A Control point =/= "uncontroled"

1) Move weight into the semi space which is in the direction you want to go in. If its at an angle, calculate the needed pull for the two appropriate weights to get you as close to on target as possible while only needing one other weight adjustment to go to your destination. Mechanically, this is probably a knowledge (mathematics) check or something.
2) Alter the revealed weight in the topmost flux until you are falling. Once you are approaching the ground, alter the weight again until only a small force is pulling you down. Touch down gently.
3) The ship is piloted by physically moving mass into and out of gravity fluxes. Heuristics (barring a heuristically controlled chassis) cannot move physical objects without engines.
4) I meant it can only move in one direction at any given time. Which is a big problem if you want to not fall.
5) I was referring to the fact that you seem to only have one weight of which you never reduce the mass.


Basically placing a Semi-Space tethered to a Biollurgical chassis, but thinking back it can be made much more efficiently with a PrC (Groughtsmen) :smalltongue:

Mine involved a membrane-like muscle reaching through a portal to completely cover the "pilot" and it worked based upon opposed str checks. I don't think I ever posted it before. Not that I really count this as posting it, you understand.

NEW STUFF! I just figured out how to GREATLY reduce the production time on my portal ships. Too tired to plot it out right now, but basically its crawling through a small portal, but better than that

[Arcanist]

There are no levers inside any semispaces! I honestly have no idea where you got that from. I never said that. I am very confused by what you think... There is a portal for getting from inside the ship to fixed location X, then there is the inside of the ship. There are semispaces on the outside of the ship, who's positions relative to the ship are controlled by levers. They move so that more, less, or no weight is present inside each flux.

Well, I'm sorry, but the image of moving items in and out of semi-spaces inspires the sight of levers. It can be anything from a steering wheel to a button to a sign that says "left" and "right" for all I care. Since you are moving objects inside of multiple semi-spaces to interact with a single object (i.e. moving weighted objects outside of a flux and into a flux to navigate).


... I don't think you're supposed to be able to do that... Even if you can, you would have to make all of those blueprints, and it would be a net lose in time.

Blueprints are not single use items meaning that an entire group can use the same principle on a Blueprint over and over again or as a team. Just making a single Blueprint is more than enough.


1) A car does not fly. A plane does not have a two-dimensional steering apparatus. When you need to maintain a 3rd dimension, you need to operate in three dimensions. If you only have one flux, your ship can either only go up and down, slide along the ground while falling vertically, or fall towards the earth while also falling vertically.

... Yes, cars do not fly and planes move in 3-dimensions using a stick grip. A Stick grip would be an example of how the control point would look. It can also be a ball-control or a tri-dimensional steering wheel for all that matters.

Since the flux is in the shape of a sphere (or "bubble") simply directing the stick grip in the proper direction is enough to pilot it, meaning that any dimension a plane can fly in, the TaRDiS can also fly. As much as I'd love for the TaRDiS to have 6 control points, to keep with canon, it is suboptimal to do so.


2) In my model, all fluxes are virtually inert for all practical purposes unless you move the semispace covers to introduce weight into them, and you only do that when you want to move.

God forbid your vessel lands and can no longer ELEVATE because the fluxes are still pulling the vessel downwards towards the ground, since of course you have no way to turn off/on your flux without getting out.

[QUOTE=Omnicrat;15063106]??? How can you possibly think portal ships are only needed for spacetravel? Exploration of your plant, for one thing. Going anyplace in the world that doesn't have portals set up to your current location for another. There is lots of reason to want to have a portal ship. Even disregarding all the stuff I just said, the Adventurers can go to wherever without leaving the comfort of their base.

You can do all of this without including a Semi-space in your ships design.


... This isn't new. This is old and I'm just talking about it again. I really hope your smart phone in this analogy isn't portals...

It is 3 months old. It was a reference to the ideas of using an inferior model when a superior model and already functioning model is already present.


Lol, no. I meant its a non-problem. Worst case scenario, semispace masks containing biostructure blocks. Two first level gramarists could throw them togeather.

T'was, just teasing you good sir :smallwink:


1) Move weight into the semi space which is in the direction you want to go in. If its at an angle, calculate the needed pull for the two appropriate weights to get you as close to on target as possible while only needing one other weight adjustment to go to your destination. Mechanically, this is probably a knowledge (mathematics) check or something.

How are you moving the weight into and out of the Semi-space? Better yet, why does this require the pilot to even make a skill check? :smallconfused:

Try to make your design as idiot-proof as humanly possible. A skill check is an act of chance, I sincerely don't consider it optimal to rely upon something as fickle as chance to accomplish your flight skills.


2) Alter the revealed weight in the topmost flux until you are falling. Once you are approaching the ground, alter the weight again until only a small force is pulling you down. Touch down gently.

Alternative: Miss a skill check by 1 and crash, with your tether taking at minimum 1d6 (if you were only flying for 1 round).

I imagine I will have more to say on this matter once you tell how you are controlling the weight in the fluxs.


4) I meant it can only move in one direction at any given time. Which is a big problem if you want to not fall.

Descend at an angle and when nested above the ground at around 1ft from the ground deactivate the flux and land roughly, but with no effect to the Semi-Space inside. This option is available because of it's omni-directional steering, however it is not available with strictly 3-dimensional steering as with your vessel.


5) I was referring to the fact that you seem to only have one weight of which you never reduce the mass.

I'm curious how you are increasing and decreasing the mass of an object, while still keeping in with the Laws of Thermodynamics? :smallconfused:


Mine involved a membrane-like muscle reaching through a portal to completely cover the "pilot" and it worked based upon opposed str checks. I don't think I ever posted it before. Not that I really count this as posting it, you understand.

NEW STUFF! I just figured out how to GREATLY reduce the production time on my portal ships. Too tired to plot it out right now, but basically its crawling through a small portal, but better than that

I understand quite well, old chum :smalltongue: I'm curious how its pilot mechanics work for this model :smallconfused:

So basically place a small portal tethered to an object (say a medium sized bag) too be used for travel... :smalltongue:

[Saidoro]

We seem to be miscommunicating a bit.
Arcanist, your engine does not work on its own because while it can set the direction of thrust freely it has no way of controlling its magnitude. Your ship can't turn off its engine and it can't make small delicate changes to position. That's great for interstellar travel but you'd need something more precise to control it in atmosphere or near other objects.

This is a basic Omnicrat engine as I understand it, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong:
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu116/saidoro/Untitled-1.jpg
You've got a metal sheet with a semispace on one side(the thick black line) combined with a cabin with a weighted cube firmly attached to one side such that the semispace covers the cube(Weight is shaded box, weight in semispace is dashed box, cabin is empty box). On the same side of the cabin as the cube you've got a gravity field pointing away from the cabin(the blue box, arrow indicates direction). You also have some means of controlling the distance between the sheet and the cabin (I'm just showing a push-pull rod directly bolted to the sheet, though more complex means are possible). When the sheet is right next to the cabin the gravity field has negligible effect, the weighted cube is weightless in the semispace and the weight of the sheet is negligible. Moving the sheet away from the cabin allows you to move more or less of the weighted cube in or out of semispace, with any amount that's out being affected by the gravity field and thereby exerting a force on the cabin to which it is attached, the more weight exposed the larger the force.

And here is the vessel Omnicrat described using his drives:
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu116/saidoro/Untitled-2.jpg
(There are two more drives facing towards and away from you which are not illustrated)
You've got the one drive at the top which provides forward thrust and the four side drives which are used to steer and help maintain altitude, activating the front one pulls you forward while activating a side drive will pull you in that direction while causing the ship to rotate around its center of mass turning it in a wide arc. Honestly, I don't think much of this design. The engines are going to be working against each other in anything but straight up and down motion and it's impossible to orient parallel to your direction of motion while in an external gravity field which is bound to generate lots of drag. Making it into a cube instead of a rectangle would solve both of those problems, but would make it impossible to rotate the thing without significantly increasing the complexity of the sheet's distance controls(and even then it would turn very slowly).

And here is my proposed ship:
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu116/saidoro/Untitled-3.jpg
you've got two weights in gravity fields controlled by a single heuristic circuit(technically you don't even need the circuit, you could just drill a path to the center of the weight and have crewmen change direction manually). Both weights should be equidistant from and on opposite sides of the ship's center of mass. The two weights can have their gravity set in identical directions to accelerate as quickly as possible in that direction, they can be set partially or fully opposing each other with opposing moments to accelerate more slowly or not at all and they can be set partially or fully opposing each other with matching moments to rotate in any direction with or without movement. It requires significantly less gramarie, doesn't oppose itself and can be streamlined for atmospheric flight or pressurized for space flight far more easily than the ship Omnicrat proposed.

Any further questions? Can anyone explain why I just spent over an hour designing and describing propulsion systems for imaginary spaceships when I have real engineering homework to do?

[Silvernale]

Sea turtles mate, sea turtles... All joking aside, Space travel and normal flight, without having to burn through ebbs unnecessarily by simply altering gravity to meet your traveling demands most often through the use of YGGD 212.

... Savvy? :smallwink:

ROFL what about the rope?

Omnicrat - All of it! How would a gramarist go about making the classic "flying galleon" airship? What principles would be needed? How would it work? Halp?

[Omnicrat]

Well, I'm sorry, but the image of moving items in and out of semi-spaces inspires the sight of levers. It can be anything from a steering wheel to a button to a sign that says "left" and "right" for all I care. Since you are moving objects inside of multiple semi-spaces to interact with a single object (i.e. moving weighted objects outside of a flux and into a flux to navigate).

Okay, here is where I think a big part of the problem was coming from. I am not moving any objects inside any semispaces. I am moving objects in the primary plane which have semispaces attached to them over different objects (hereafter referred to as weights) in the primary plane, thereby moving them into the semispace. None of this apparatus exists inside any semisapces. The Weights are in fixed positions and semispaces move over them to create the effect of less matter or more matter or no matter* attached to the ship in the flux. I was picturing levers too, just none inside semispaces.


Blueprints are not single use items meaning that an entire group can use the same principle on a Blueprint over and over again or as a team. Just making a single Blueprint is more than enough.

It does work multiple times, but only for improving the original preparation it was used to make, not creating totally new ones. Also, it is not unskilled labor. It simply requires no training in gramarie. You still have to mad a DC 20 check in the appropriate skill.


... Yes, cars do not fly and planes move in 3-dimensions using a stick grip. A Stick grip would be an example of how the control point would look. It can also be a ball-control or a tri-dimensional steering wheel for all that matters.

Since the flux is in the shape of a sphere (or "bubble") simply directing the stick grip in the proper direction is enough to pilot it, meaning that any dimension a plane can fly in, the TaRDiS can also fly. As much as I'd love for the TaRDiS to have 6 control points, to keep with canon, it is suboptimal to do so.

unless you are pushing against standard gravity with equal force, your ship will fall to the earth. Normal gravity still effects the parts not inside the flux, after all. The only way this would not happen is if your whole ship is in the flux, in which case, how does it land/hover?


God forbid your vessel lands and can no longer ELEVATE because the fluxes are still pulling the vessel downwards towards the ground, since of course you have no way to turn off/on your flux without getting out.

...okay... There are no fluxes pulling the vessel downwards, so I've got no idea what your talking about. Why don't you PM me your skype so we can talk about this in real tim?


You can do all of this without including a Semi-space in your ships design.

Do you mean the semispaces I use to control the weight in the fluxes or the portal? Because you can't really have a portal ship without a portal... How would those things be accomplished without a portal?


It is 3 months old. It was a reference to the ideas of using an inferior model when a superior model and already functioning model is already present.

... you have yet to say a model as effective as this with as few different principles. This isn't the best thing that could be made. Its the best thing with as few different principles at as low a level as possible.


T'was, just teasing you good sir :smallwink:

I figured it was a joke, but might have had an acctuall complaint based upon confusion. I got the humor of it. :smallbiggrin:


How are you moving the weight into and out of the Semi-space? Better yet, why does this require the pilot to even make a skill check? :smallconfused:

Try to make your design as idiot-proof as humanly possible. A skill check is an act of chance, I sincerely don't consider it optimal to rely upon something as fickle as chance to accomplish your flight skills.

The semispaces move over the fixed position of the weights.

The pilot wouldn't need a skillcheck to do this, but would probably need one to calculate optimal courses without eyeballing it. These courses can be pre-calculated and put into a book for ease of use. I do not expect these checks to be done every time the vessel is piloted, only every time you want to go to and/or from someplace new. Still, you could take 20 on it (since you should have time) and/or have other people do the check too and go with the rout most people came up with.


Alternative: Miss a skill check by 1 and crash, with your tether taking at minimum 1d6 (if you were only flying for 1 round).

I imagine I will have more to say on this matter once you tell how you are controlling the weight in the fluxs.

Not what the skill checks are for and I just explained that.

Already explained that too.

Both of those in this post, so its not like you could have known (other than by understanding what I meant in the first place, but if you did that this post would most likely not even exist :smalltongue:)


Descend at an angle and when nested above the ground at around 1ft from the ground deactivate the flux and land roughly, but with no effect to the Semi-Space inside. This option is available because of it's omni-directional steering, however it is not available with strictly 3-dimensional steering as with your vessel.

Lol, I wish I understood what you didn't get. That is strictly worse than mine, but you think its better. Hopefully we'll have this sorted out in a few posts. :smallbiggrin:

Also, when you say semispace, what do you mean? A portal? A demiplane? A standard 2x2 semispace? I think there is something here I'm missing, and thats a big part of our communication problem.


I'm curious how you are increasing and decreasing the mass of an object, while still keeping in with the Laws of Thermodynamics? :smallconfused:

Not literally. Moving it into and out of semispaces. You never reduce the mass inside the flux.


I understand quite well, old chum :smalltongue: I'm curious how its pilot mechanics work for this model :smallconfused:

The body on the other end makes Str checks you have to resist when it interacts with the world. This way you don't just break things by picking them up, or touching them. You can choose to automatically fail these checks. You can turn off these checks for what I like to think of as "Hulk Smash" mode. :smallbiggrin: The muscle membrane covering your body replicates your movements with the Chassis body. I'm not sure if it will have built-in cler(voy/audi)ance silverouts for sensory perception or unique grafts.


So basically place a small portal tethered to an object (say a medium sized bag) too be used for travel... :smalltongue:

Okay, you seem to be using portal and semispace interchangeably and that is a problem. Semispaces are 2x2 (or more) areas of extra-dimensional space created by YGGD 101. A portal is a link between two semispaces created by YGGD 241.

Regardless of what you mean, no, not that. I'm just going to grossly over-simplyfy it so we don't spend another 10 posts arguing about this. You have 2 seperate 2x2 semispaces, on in your home location and one on your ship. Link them and crawl through.

[Saidoro]

...okay... There are no fluxes pulling the vessel downwards, so I've got no idea what your talking about. Why don't you PM me your skype so we can talk about this in real tim?
I believe he was referring to what would happen if your ship landed engine-side down. That really isn't how it's intended to land, but that still isn't an issue because the weights are generally denser than the ground.

Do you mean the semispaces I use to control the weight in the fluxes or the portal? Because you can't really have a portal ship without a portal... How would those things be accomplished without a portal?
What, precisely, do you mean by portal ship?

... you have yet to say a model as effective as this with as few different principles. This isn't the best thing that could be made. Its the best thing with as few different principles at as low a level as possible.
I have. Look at my post at the top of this page.

[Omnicrat]

We seem to be miscommunicating a bit.
Arcanist, your engine does not work on its own because while it can set the direction of thrust freely it has no way of controlling its magnitude. Your ship can't turn off its engine and it can't make small delicate changes to position. That's great for interstellar travel but you'd need something more precise to control it in atmosphere or near other objects.

This is a basic Omnicrat engine as I understand it, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong:
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu116/saidoro/Untitled-1.jpg
You've got a metal sheet with a semispace on one side(the thick black line) combined with a cabin with a weighted cube firmly attached to one side such that the semispace covers the cube(Weight is shaded box, weight in semispace is dashed box, cabin is empty box). On the same side of the cabin as the cube you've got a gravity field pointing away from the cabin(the blue box, arrow indicates direction). You also have some means of controlling the distance between the sheet and the cabin (I'm just showing a push-pull rod directly bolted to the sheet, though more complex means are possible). When the sheet is right next to the cabin the gravity field has negligible effect, the weighted cube is weightless in the semispace and the weight of the sheet is negligible. Moving the sheet away from the cabin allows you to move more or less of the weighted cube in or out of semispace, with any amount that's out being affected by the gravity field and thereby exerting a force on the cabin to which it is attached, the more weight exposed the larger the force.

And here is the vessel Omnicrat described using his drives:
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu116/saidoro/Untitled-2.jpg
(There are two more drives facing towards and away from you which are not illustrated)
You've got the one drive at the top which provides forward thrust and the four side drives which are used to steer and help maintain altitude, activating the front one pulls you forward while activating a side drive will pull you in that direction while causing the ship to rotate around its center of mass turning it in a wide arc. Honestly, I don't think much of this design. The engines are going to be working against each other in anything but straight up and down motion and it's impossible to orient parallel to your direction of motion while in an external gravity field which is bound to generate lots of drag. Making it into a cube instead of a rectangle would solve both of those problems, but would make it impossible to rotate the thing without significantly increasing the complexity of the sheet's distance controls(and even then it would turn very slowly).

And here is my proposed ship:
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu116/saidoro/Untitled-3.jpg
you've got two weights in gravity fields controlled by a single heuristic circuit(technically you don't even need the circuit, you could just drill a path to the center of the weight and have crewmen change direction manually). Both weights should be equidistant from and on opposite sides of the ship's center of mass. The two weights can have their gravity set in identical directions to accelerate as quickly as possible in that direction, they can be set partially or fully opposing each other with opposing moments to accelerate more slowly or not at all and they can be set partially or fully opposing each other with matching moments to rotate in any direction with or without movement. It requires significantly less gramarie, doesn't oppose itself and can be streamlined for atmospheric flight or pressurized for space flight far more easily than the ship Omnicrat proposed.

Any further questions? Can anyone explain why I just spent over an hour designing and describing propulsion systems for imaginary spaceships when I have real engineering homework to do?

I believe I understand your ship fully now (I probably don't, but I believe I do :smalltongue:), but you still made some mistakes about mine. The first part is exactly right, but you made some mistakes in describing how it functions. The drive at the top creates buoyancy, not forward momentum. Its how you go up and down. Once you get the the altitude you want, you have its fluxed-weight equal that of the cabin, creating a net-zero weight with regard to normal gravity. You then gain momentum by using the side-drives. The ship doesn't rotate, it moves in a straight line based upon how much weight is in each effecting semispace. Think of the front facing drive as movement with regard to Y and the side facing drive as movement with regard to X. The top is movement with regard to Z. Its a bit hard to picture how this works, because its so alien to how reality works. When you have a net-zero weight with regard to normal gravity, it has no negative effect on momentum. The only time a negative effect on momentum takes place is when two opposing drives are active at the same time, which one would have not reason to ever do. That said, my method is terrible for spaceflight, especially compared to yours.

You're seems to have on major issue. How does it not fall out of the sky?

Because impossible physics are more fun to engineer with!

Edit:

I believe he was referring to what would happen if your ship landed engine-side down. That really isn't how it's intended to land, but that still isn't an issue because the weights are generally denser than the ground.

Ah. Did not get that. It can't happen. Gravity fluxes remain relative to gravity if not otherwise changed, so even if the ship somehow flipped upside-down, which would be hard (I'm not sure how it would), it would still not be pulled down.


What, precisely, do you mean by portal ship?

Any vessel that contains a Yggdratecture portal.


I have. Look at my post at the top of this page.

Yes, you have. And one you explain how it doesn't fall out of the sky (which it should right now) I'll probably use that as the best model for the desired goal instead of this.

[Saidoro]

I believe I understand your ship fully now (I probably don't, but I believe I do :smalltongue:), but you still made some mistakes about mine. The first part is exactly right, but you made some mistakes in describing how it functions. The drive at the top creates buoyancy, not forward momentum. Its how you go up and down. Once you get the the altitude you want, you have its fluxed-weight equal that of the cabin, creating a net-zero weight with regard to normal gravity. You then gain momentum by using the side-drives. The ship doesn't rotate, it moves in a straight line based upon how much weight is in each effecting semispace. Think of the front facing drive as movement with regard to Y and the side facing drive as movement with regard to X. The top is movement with regard to Z. Its a bit hard to picture how this works, because its so alien to how reality works. When you have a net-zero weight with regard to normal gravity, it has no negative effect on momentum. The only time a negative effect on momentum takes place is when two opposing drives are active at the same time, which one would have not reason to ever do. That said, my method is terrible for spaceflight, especially compared to yours.
Even if momentum didn't cause it to rotate(and I'm a bit fuzzy on why it doesn't, it's been two years since I took dynamics) the force of air resistance located at the center of the leading face would still cause rotation when taken together with the separately located engine.(And with the leading faces being 15'x5' flat rectangles you'll have a lot of air resistance.)


You're seems to have on major issue. How does it not fall out of the sky?
When in external gravity you'd angle the engines slightly upwards at all times to counteract it, it's something for the pilot to account for rather than being hardwired in.

Ah. Did not get that. It can't happen. Gravity fluxes remain relative to gravity if not otherwise changed, so even if the ship somehow flipped upside-down, which would be hard (I'm not sure how it would), it would still not be pulled down.
I read it as the direction of gravity being relative to the reference object, but it doesn't explicitly say which it is.

Any vessel that contains a Yggdratecture portal.
So you connect a semispace on the ship to one somewhere else? Makes sense.(Also deals with oxygen supply, muscular atrophy and spare parts when you're traveling through space.)

[Omnicrat]

Even if momentum didn't cause it to rotate(and I'm a bit fuzzy on why it doesn't, it's been two years since I took dynamics) the force of air resistance located at the center of the leading face would still cause rotation.

Not it doesn't, because D&D physics is not physics.


When in external gravity you'd angle the engines slightly upwards at all times to counteract it, it's something for the pilot to account for rather than being hardwired in.

This still gives you less control than in my model, then. A combination of the two seems like it would be best, where my model is used to make the vessel normal gravity-neutral and yours is the actual means of propulsion. If you aren't using heuristics, you do need two pilots working in tandem, however.


I read it as the direction of gravity being relative to the reference object, but it doesn't explicitly say which it is.

Kellus said specifically its with regard to the direction of normal gravity at one point in the passed 43 pages.


So you connect a semispace on the ship to one somewhere else? Makes sense.(Also deals with oxygen supply, muscular atrophy and spare parts when you're traveling through space.)

Atrophy is also fixed by having an internal flux that doesn't effect your ships systems.

[Saidoro]

Not it doesn't, because D&D physics is not physics.
True, but I see no reason why D&D physics wouldn't include air resistance.



This still gives you less control than in my model, then. A combination of the two seems like it would be best, where my model is used to make the vessel normal gravity-neutral and yours is the actual means of propulsion. If you aren't using heuristics, you do need two pilots working in tandem, however.
It does give slightly less control, but I don't see how relevant that is, each Yggdratectural engine in my design can deliver over 15 times as much force as yours assuming densities are equal. Is the slight loss in maximum acceleration really important enough to assign a whole extra engine to?
You could arguably use unseen servants as pilots.
Also, while the current model is cheapest I'd suggest more important vessels have 4, 8 or 27 engines rather than 2. With 2 you still have a front, back, top and bottom. With 4 you just have a top and bottom, and with 8 or 27 you have a cube of engines so all sides are equal.

Kellus said specifically its with regard to the direction of normal gravity at one point in the passed 43 pages.
So...wouldn't that mean that gravity fields don't work in space at all? I can see one of them setting a constant 1g field away from the ship or whatever, but if it's a constant 1-g field in the opposite direction of whatever the regular gravity is you might have problems.

[Omnicrat]

True, but I see no reason why D&D physics wouldn't include air resistance.

Fair enough. Rather than hammering all of this out, lets just make it a cylinder.


It does give slightly less control, but I don't see how relevant that is, each Yggdratectural engine in my design can deliver over 15 times as much force as yours assuming densities are equal. Is the slight loss in maximum acceleration really important enough to assign a whole extra engine to?
You could arguably use unseen servants as pilots.
Also, while the current model is cheapest I'd suggest more important vessels have 4, 8 or 27 engines rather than 2. With 2 you still have a front, back, top and bottom. With 4 you just have a top and bottom, and with 8 or 27 you have a cube of engines so all sides are equal.

... How can it do the bolded?


So...wouldn't that mean that gravity fields don't work in space at all? I can see one of them setting a constant 1g field away from the ship or whatever, but if it's a constant 1-g field in the opposite direction of whatever the regular gravity is you might have problems.

In space they are fixed in a similar way as with regard to gravity.

[Nanoblack]

True, but I see no reason why D&D physics wouldn't include air resistance.

It's not included in D&D physics because there isn't a rule printed for it. It's very vaguely emulated in the rules for falling speed, but "air resistance" isn't a thing according to this system.

[Saidoro]

... How can it do the bolded?
Me being bad at math. More seriously: the number I gave was wrong, but they can impart far more force because the engines do not need to fit inside semispaces, they can be as large as the gravity field rather than being confined to 2'x2'x2'.

[Milo v3]

Am I the only person who thinks that the costs of gramarie should be modified by the skill check used in the preparation?

Because otherwise a Silver Output Transformer Cannon made by a master with a check of 100 costs the same as a Silver Output Transformer Cannon made by a novice with a check of 1.

[Eldest]

ROFL what about the rope?

Omnicrat - All of it! How would a gramarist go about making the classic "flying galleon" airship? What principles would be needed? How would it work? Halp?

The classic "Flying Galleon" would be most simply made by putting Simple Orthogonal Engines on the back, to make it go forward, and Ascending Engines, to make it go up. You need 600 push to make it able to ascend at 30 feet per round (the minimum speed), and 3 Ascending Engines do that. That might be powered by actual fuel (not a good plan), stored energy in batteries, a generator, or any combination of these.

But that's too easy. This is mad science. So instead, here's one way of doing it (and a possible way of interstellar travel, which is the ship they're referring to): you make your hull and materials as light as possible. You can use ALCH 325: Preternatural Fluids to lower the density dramatically. Then you start looking into YGGD 212: Polarcane Geometry, specifically the gravity one. This makes it so that bubbles of the ship have gravity in a different direction than down: make half your ship this, and you now have a weightless ship. Put a few bubbles that can be controlled, and you can have (slow) movement, all without actually using engines: you're just falling in a given direction. This has the advantage of not needing nearly as much power, however, it is more complex and would require more cooperation between gramists.

[Lateral]

But that's too easy. This is mad science. So instead, here's one way of doing it (and a possible way of interstellar travel, which is the ship they're referring to): you make your hull and materials as light as possible. You can use ALCH 325: Preternatural Fluids to lower the density dramatically. Then you start looking into YGGD 212: Polarcane Geometry, specifically the gravity one. This makes it so that bubbles of the ship have gravity in a different direction than down: make half your ship this, and you now have a weightless ship. Put a few bubbles that can be controlled, and you can have (slow) movement, all without actually using engines: you're just falling in a given direction. This has the advantage of not needing nearly as much power, however, it is more complex and would require more cooperation between gramists.

Hmm...

...You know, you just gave me an idea. I think (and, to be clear, this is with a teenager's conceptual understanding of complex physics, so someone with a stronger background in the science should check me on this) that you could use the magnetic aspect of YGGD 212 to construct something effectively analogous to a negative-mass drive. Despite operating on ferrous materials, YGGD 212 doesn't really create magnetism- there are no poles. Really, it's more like creating a magnetic monopole (for attraction) and... something like a 'magnetic anti-monopole.' Unlike positive and negative charges, though, the opposite charges don't repel- rather, if you have two ferrous objects with one attractive and one repulsive monopole, the repulsive would be attracted to the attractive and the attractive would be simultaneously repelled by the repulsive, creating acceleration without an input of energy. My understanding of electromagnetism as a theory is pretty rudimentary, but as stated before, these forces don't actually act like magnetism so I don't think that that matters.

The problem with this, of course, is that unlike negative mass, this breaks conservation of momentum. Mass and velocity are both still positive, after all. Still, since this is a situation that cannot occur in the real world (because of said violation of conservation of momentum), I don't see a problem. Well, actually, I see lots of problems, but they don't specifically relate to this thing. :smalltongue:

Still, if I'm correct, then the result you get is basically infinite acceleration with no input. Also, it's possible (and this is me extrapolating based on previous similarities, so here I'm really shaky) that you could build something analogous to Alcubierre drive out of this, which would be pretty awesome.

[Omnicrat]

Am I the only person who thinks that the costs of gramarie should be modified by the skill check used in the preparation?

Because otherwise a Silver Output Transformer Cannon made by a master with a check of 100 costs the same as a Silver Output Transformer Cannon made by a novice with a check of 1.

The pricing system needs to be re-done in general. At the end of the day, I doubt there will ever be a good pricing system. Gramarie is better than a lot of published artifacts.

[Silvernale]

The classic "Flying Galleon" would be most simply made by putting Simple Orthogonal Engines on the back, to make it go forward, and Ascending Engines, to make it go up. You need 600 push to make it able to ascend at 30 feet per round (the minimum speed), and 3 Ascending Engines do that. That might be powered by actual fuel (not a good plan), stored energy in batteries, a generator, or any combination of these.

But that's too easy. This is mad science. So instead, here's one way of doing it (and a possible way of interstellar travel, which is the ship they're referring to): you make your hull and materials as light as possible. You can use ALCH 325: Preternatural Fluids to lower the density dramatically. Then you start looking into YGGD 212: Polarcane Geometry, specifically the gravity one. This makes it so that bubbles of the ship have gravity in a different direction than down: make half your ship this, and you now have a weightless ship. Put a few bubbles that can be controlled, and you can have (slow) movement, all without actually using engines: you're just falling in a given direction. This has the advantage of not needing nearly as much power, however, it is more complex and would require more cooperation between gramists.

Ok lets try this then =D
In the Shannara novel series, they have airships that range from 2-man speeders to 200 man transport warships. They are explained this way: The sails are made of a magi-tech material that absorbs and directs solar energy through filaments called radian draws that go into diapson crystals that store the energy. This energy can be used to make the ships fly via contragravity and are directionally controlled by altering the amount of thrust from one direction or another. The diapson crystals can also be linked to weapons, creating magi-tech flamethrowers, impact cannons and flechette railguns. If a charged diapson crystal gets cracked it goes boom.

[Eldest]

Ok lets try this then =D
In the Shannara novel series, they have airships that range from 2-man speeders to 200 man transport warships. They are explained this way: The sails are made of a magi-tech material that absorbs and directs solar energy through filaments called radian draws that go into diapson crystals that store the energy. This energy can be used to make the ships fly via contragravity and are directionally controlled by altering the amount of thrust from one direction or another. The diapson crystals can also be linked to weapons, creating magi-tech flamethrowers, impact cannons and flechette railguns. If a charged diapson crystal gets cracked it goes boom.

Gold inputs, with the bubbles shaped to look like sails I guess, linked to orichalcum to store it, powering either the ascending engines or (since the gravity manipulation via Yggdratecture doesn't drain energy) the movement engines. Railguns are made by ballistic engines, flamethrowers through I'd guess ballistic engines throwing oil with a lighting mechanic, or something else involving filters and phlogiston. I'd need to know what impact cannons are to make them. Breaking orichalcum causes no boom.

[Omnicrat]

You could always keep a gramatic bomb on hand (sunmetal or otherwise) and have it go off using a contingent circuit for any time a batter cracks.

[Silvernale]

Gold inputs, with the bubbles shaped to look like sails I guess, linked to orichalcum to store it, powering either the ascending engines or (since the gravity manipulation via Yggdratecture doesn't drain energy) the movement engines. Railguns are made by ballistic engines, flamethrowers through I'd guess ballistic engines throwing oil with a lighting mechanic, or something else involving filters and phlogiston. I'd need to know what impact cannons are to make them. Breaking orichalcum causes no boom.

Impact cannons just shot out pure kinetic force.

[Omnicrat]

Impact cannons just shot out pure kinetic force.

You can shoot gravity at people.

[Geordnet]

Hm...

Has anyone considered using pairs of silver-ins/Magic Missile-outs as a means of transferring ebbs across the entrance of a semi-space? Or as a means of indefinite energy storage?

[Quester]

All you need to cross the barrier of a semi-space is physical contact between two transformers, the area of effect of a transformer can't penetrate the barrier but you can still transfer energy between them directly.

Although the indefinite storage is interesting.

[Geordnet]

Although the indefinite storage is interesting.
Actually, if you're willing to let the storage be only practically indefinite, you could make an energy storage system using only stuff you could get at first level. :smallamused:

Simply put multiple layers of silverin/spellout couplings. Even if there's a 50% chance of passing through each individual layer, the odds of the spell passing through all of them are practically nil if you've got enough layers. Extracting the energy from this arrangement is simply a matter of mechanically inserting a silverin "net".


Of course, when you think about it this isn't a practical, since it would require lots of work for very little storage capacity. A better way would be to hook up a series of silverin/woodouts in front of a wand of some sort. :smalltongue:




Or better yet, make some goldin/woodouts where the gold half (and preferably some of the wood half) is inside a semi-space with a Continual Flame. That'll give you at least one ebb per cubic foot of free energy.

Still better, use crystalins and permanent Ghost Sound spells set to max volume, for at least 4 ebbs/ft^3.

Hm... Unless.....


How is the caster level for a spellout figured? I have an idea... :smallwink:

[pieman2945]

I posted in the MinMax board, but haven't gotten a reply so here it is.

So, correct me if i'm wrong, but I assume this works: Make a barrel, with room for at least one cubic foot of sunmetal (more will make it more powerful), with a few inches of extra space and room for an equal amount in front. Put green (for radiation), red and orange (for explosion) kaleidoscopic filters in the loose space. Set up a circuit from behind that enters into the sunmetal. Load the cannon with sunmetal behind and a projectile in front (I'm partial to Phlogiston,) and blow the sunmetal. The filters should stop all negative effects, and the projectile should be shot at about 1000 miles/second (I think, could be much more.)

Would this work?

[Conor77]

So, correct me if i'm wrong, but I assume this works: Make a barrel, with room for at least one cubic foot of sunmetal (more will make it more powerful), with a few inches of extra space and room for an equal amount in front. Put green (for radiation), red and orange (for explosion) kaleidoscopic filters in the loose space. Set up a circuit from behind that enters into the sunmetal. Load the cannon with sunmetal behind and a projectile in front (I'm partial to Phlogiston,) and blow the sunmetal. The filters should stop all negative effects, and the projectile should be shot at about 1000 miles/second (I think, could be much more.)

You'd need kaleidoscopic filters around the inside of the barrel too... Don't want all your force escaping out the sides, and most likely destroying everything around you.

That said, it looks solid. Just remember that this takes a whole lot of effort.

[pieman2945]

I posted in the MinMax board, but haven't gotten a reply so here it is.

So, correct me if i'm wrong, but I assume this works: Make a barrel, with room for at least one cubic foot of sunmetal (more will make it more powerful), with a few inches of extra space and room for an equal amount in front. Put green (for radiation), red and orange (for explosion) kaleidoscopic filters in the loose space. Set up a circuit from behind that enters into the sunmetal. Load the cannon with sunmetal behind and a projectile in front (I'm partial to Phlogiston,) and blow the sunmetal. The filters should stop all negative effects, and the projectile should be shot at about 1000 miles/second (I think, could be much more.)

Would this work?

The extra space is where the filters are.

[Conor77]

So, correct me if i'm wrong, but I assume this works: Make a barrel, with room for at least one cubic foot of sunmetal (more will make it more powerful),


with a few inches of extra space


and room for an equal amount in front

Those two were separate but they blurred together as I read them, as in, "a few inches of extra space in room for an equal amount in front", implying that all the extra room was in front, including the few inches.

:V

[Omnicrat]

Except damage still destroys filters if there is enough of it. I could be wrong, but I don't think the filters could survive a sunmetal explosion.

[Morcleon]

Except damage still destroys filters if there is enough of it. I could be wrong, but I don't think the filters could survive a sunmetal explosion.

White filters don't have a damage limit. Only things that specifically destroy a certain type of filter destroy it. :smallsmile:

[Geordnet]

White filters don't have a damage limit. Only things that specifically destroy a certain type of filter destroy it. :smallsmile:

That seems very OP to me. At first level, you could build yellow filter armor that would make somebody or something totally immune to most weapons, and which can only be destroyed by something that's impossible to get before 12th level. (Not counting wands etc.)

Really, yellow filters are so strong that I'd imagine they'd be used everywhere in a world with Grammarie, which in turn would lead to metal weapons falling out of use.


The rest of the filters are relatively okay, it's just yellow filters that are really broken. To fix this, I'd suggest changing yellow filters' vulnerability to Sonic, which is acquirable at much lower levels.

[Morcleon]

That seems very OP to me. At first level, you could build yellow filter armor that would make somebody or something totally immune to most weapons, and which can only be destroyed by something that's impossible to get before 12th level. (Not counting wands etc.)

Really, yellow filters are so strong that I'd imagine they'd be used everywhere in a world with Grammarie, which in turn would lead to metal weapons falling out of use.


The rest of the filters are relatively okay, it's just yellow filters that are really broken. To fix this, I'd suggest changing yellow filters' vulnerability to Sonic, which is acquirable at much lower levels.

If you place a thin sheet of metal flush between two yellow filters, then it becomes entirely immovable, and thus immune to physical damage, as the metal atoms have nowhere to go. :smallsmile:

Although I suspect that yellow filters were supposed to go in the magisterial properties... or maybe this is just a typo:


...The first filters typically taught are the red and orange filters...

[Geordnet]

If you place a thin sheet of metal flush between two yellow filters, then it becomes entirely immovable, and thus immune to physical damage, as the metal atoms have nowhere to go. :smallsmile:

Although I suspect that yellow filters were supposed to go in the magisterial properties... or maybe this is just a typo:

Ah, that would make much more sense.


And in the case you describe, the metal would turn to liquid when absorbing the energy of an impact, thus allowing it to pass through the filter. :smalltongue:

(Or they'd just move closer together. Everything is is >99% nothing, you know... :smallwink:)

[Morcleon]

Ah, that would make much more sense.


And in the case you describe, the metal would turn to liquid when absorbing the energy of an impact, thus allowing it to pass through the filter. :smalltongue:

(Or they'd just move closer together. Everything is is >99% nothing, you know... :smallwink:)

If you're worried about liquifying metal, boost it with alchemetry and stuff.

And there's a reason why all our atoms don't just fall through the earth. It's called the Pauli Exclusion Principle. :smallwink:

[Geordnet]

If you're worried about liquifying metal, boost it with alchemetry and stuff.

Alchemetry can only boost the melting point so far, and an impact where the shockwave can't propagate easily can create a ton of heat.



And there's a reason why all our atoms don't just fall through the earth. It's called the Pauli Exclusion Principle. :smallwink:

No, the reason they don't fall through the earth is due to electroweak force. Pauli Exclusion Principle doesn't come into play until you're at degenerate matter, mass-of-the-earth-in-one-tablespoon levels. :smalltongue:

[Hanuman]

If gramarie is magictech then why not magihack it.

[Kymme]

First off, I LOVE this system, but there is something I do not understand.

I don't know if I am blind or something, but I cannot find how much raw materials cost. It seems weird to me that something that important would be missing.

If there is a place where the costs of raw materials are mentioned, could somebody please direct me to them?

[Arcanist]

First off, I LOVE this system, but there is something I do not understand.

I don't know if I am blind or something, but I cannot find how much raw materials cost. It seems weird to me that something that important would be missing.

If there is a place where the costs of raw materials are mentioned, could somebody please direct me to them?

It's mostly your own work. I remember someone pricing out the cost of a cubic foot of gold and using that as a scaling for the Transformers, Biollurgical Chassi, and Engines. For materials like Wood, Crystal, Tin, Ice, Mercury and Lead, you're on your own, but I will confess that these can mostly be obtained with spells or powers like Minor Creation, Major Creation or Polymorph Any Object.

[Kymme]

It's mostly your own work. I remember someone pricing out the cost of a cubic foot of gold and using that as a scaling for the Transformers, Biollurgical Chassi, and Engines. For materials like Wood, Crystal, Tin, Ice, Mercury and Lead, you're on your own, but I will confess that these can mostly be obtained with spells or powers like Minor Creation, Major Creation or Polymorph Any Object.

Alright. Makes sense, I suppose.

Thanks for the info!

P.S. Does anybody have a link to the person who priced out the cost of gold? That would be a good starting point.

[Hanuman]

For simplicity sake just call gold 1200lb for 1'cu and say each GP is 10g/lb.
This is close enough and the GP to LB ratio was around when GP was a measurement of weight in DnD >.>

Psychonomics
Psychonomic Sprayers (PSYC) are typed to ectoplasm and the reaction between (matter/energy) and psionics.

As part of this class http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15337509

If you choose to adapt psionics into gramarie I'd be more than happy to change names and concepts to suit, I just needed to fill a gap in the class =]

[RFLS]

Hmm.... apart from the Graughtsman, is there any way to apply parts of this system to necromancy? On a similar note, how would Graughtsman interact with the corpsecrafter line of feats?

[Omnicrat]

Hmm.... apart from the Graughtsman, is there any way to apply parts of this system to necromancy? On a similar note, how would Graughtsman interact with the corpsecrafter line of feats?

Well, silverouts can be used to infinitely reproduce any spell, so there's that.

[Koravel]

Pardon my lack of comprehension, but one of my players wanted to play this, and i'm looking at it a 3rd or 4th time to figure out what all he could do at lvls 2 and 3, but I can't understand most of what's going on here. This obviously being for advanced players, which this particular player is, to me, and me being at your average "I'm kindamaybesortof getting it.... I think" level of general d20 game mechanics, myself, I was just wondering if I could get some help understanding this, as I have the understanding of science equivalent to a middle school student who keeps nodding off in physics class.

In other words, I need someone to translate this to dumbspeak so I can understand what's going on here.

[Moonwolf727]

Pardon my lack of comprehension, but one of my players wanted to play this, and i'm looking at it a 3rd or 4th time to figure out what all he could do at lvls 2 and 3, but I can't understand most of what's going on here. This obviously being for advanced players, which this particular player is, to me, and me being at your average "I'm kindamaybesortof getting it.... I think" level of general d20 game mechanics, myself, I was just wondering if I could get some help understanding this, as I have the understanding of science equivalent to a middle school student who keeps nodding off in physics class.

In other words, I need someone to translate this to dumbspeak so I can understand what's going on here.

I'm always willing to lend a hand if you want something put into simpler terms or just outright explained. Though you might have to point me towards a few specific areas since I don't see myself translating the entire thing all at once, I'd be happy to do it part by part though. :smallsmile:

[Steel Mirror]

And there's a reason why all our atoms don't just fall through the earth. It's called the Pauli Exclusion Principle. :smallwink:
Actually, the Pauli exclusion principle is a very specific principle that prevents two electrons in the same atom from having the same 4 quantum numbers. In rough terms it's often stated to mean that electrons can't be in the same place at the same time, but strictly speaking that's not quite true.

The reason we don't fall through the Earth is electrostatic repulsion; negatively charged particles repel each other, and since electrons are negatively charged and surround the nucleus of atoms like a cloud, on the macro scale we perceive objects as being solid.

Blargh, sorry for being a smart-***. But I saw the statement and couldn't . . . stop myself . . . from explaining . . . :smallwink:

[Koravel]

I'm always willing to lend a hand if you want something put into simpler terms or just outright explained. Though you might have to point me towards a few specific areas since I don't see myself translating the entire thing all at once, I'd be happy to do it part by part though. :smallsmile:

thanks,

now i get the gist of the basic table and explanation. but i'm having trouble understanding the different aspects of each of the schools. for instance, i was just asked to look over it and see what USEFUL things a 2nd or 3rd level could do, which usually translates to things with wich to help in battle and in dungeons and such. However as pereviously stated I cannot understand some of this.

Could you summarise what each school is good for in a simplified manner?

[RFLS]

thanks,

now i get the gist of the basic table and explanation. but i'm having trouble understanding the different aspects of each of the schools. for instance, i was just asked to look over it and see what USEFUL things a 2nd or 3rd level could do, which usually translates to things with wich to help in battle and in dungeons and such. However as pereviously stated I cannot understand some of this.

Could you summarise what each school is good for in a simplified manner?


Alchemetry: Changing stuff into other stuff.
Arcanodynamics: Changing energy into different energy.
Eldrikinetics: Moving stuff.
Biollurgy: IT'S ALIIIIIIVE!
Heuristicism: Programming stuff.
Geocultism: Landscaping.
Kaleidomantics: Stopping stuff from moving.
Yggdratecture: Changing spacetime.
Ichmachination: Illusion.

[Koravel]

Alchemetry: Changing stuff into other stuff.
Arcanodynamics: Changing energy into different energy.
Eldrikinetics: Moving stuff.
Biollurgy: IT'S ALIIIIIIVE!
Heuristicism: Programming stuff.
Geocultism: Landscaping.
Kaleidomantics: Stopping stuff from moving.
Yggdratecture: Changing spacetime.
Ichmachination: Illusion.


well that makes the schools alot more simplified. thank you

also, does all the pre-preperation mean the class is more like an alchemist rather than a spellcaster?

[DeusMortuusEst]

Blargh, sorry for being a smart-***. But I saw the statement and couldn't . . . stop myself . . . from explaining . . . :smallwink:

*thumbsup* I learned something today. That makes it a good day. :smallsmile:


also, does all the pre-preperation mean the class is more like an alchemist rather than a spellcaster?

In a sense, yes. A gramarist won't be running around throwing up preparations just when they need it. It's a class that can build almost anything, given enough time and materials, but it can take a lot of time.

Think of it as an engineer and architect who can shoot fire from their hands.

[Moonwolf727]

well that makes the schools alot more simplified. thank you

also, does all the pre-preperation mean the class is more like an alchemist rather than a spellcaster?

Yes but slightly differently from what you're thinking of. You see, its more like an engineer than an alchemist. A gramarist can build something amazing given X hours of downtime, X depending on the complexity of the thing they're making, but in combat they aren't much more than a warlock without any invocations, unless they're sufficiently high leveled enough to have taken a prestige class.

[Morcleon]

Yes but slightly differently from what you're thinking of. You see, its more like an engineer than an alchemist. A gramarist can build something amazing given X hours of downtime, X depending on the complexity of the thing they're making, but in combat they aren't much more than a warlock without any invocations, unless they're sufficiently high leveled enough to have taken a prestige class.

Or if they've used said downtime to build weapons. :smallamused:

[Moonwolf727]

Or if they've used said downtime to build weapons. :smallamused:

Yeah, that too. You can pretty much have a portable wave-motion cannon if you plan it out correctly and have enough time to prepare all the principles.

[RFLS]

Yeah, that too. You can pretty much have a portable wave-motion cannon if you plan it out correctly and have enough time to prepare all the principles.

One of my players has worked out how to make a fusion warhead. I've seen other people make invunerable, self-replicating, self-repairing dreadnaughts.

[Moonwolf727]

One of my players has worked out how to make a fusion warhead. I've seen other people make invunerable, self-replicating, self-repairing dreadnaughts.

I hope that he has only 'Worked out how to' do it because actually dealing with something like that seems like hell.

[Lateral]

Are there any rules governing what happens if you had, say, two YGGD 212 gravity fluxes in the same place? I'd assume, and I thought I saw somewhere, that the one with the higher Forgery check overrides the other, but I can't find it.


One of my players has worked out how to make a fusion warhead.

Wait, I remember him mentioning that, but not explaining it. How, exactly, was it supposed to work?

[RFLS]

Wait, I remember him mentioning that, but not explaining it. How, exactly, was it supposed to work?

Basically, you take the red kaleidomantic filter, and squash all of the heat in a room down into a few atoms. You can actually start fusion with enough heat, so....

[Lateral]

Basically, you take the red kaleidomantic filter, and squash all of the heat in a room down into a few atoms. You can actually start fusion with enough heat, so....
Pretty sure that's not how the red filter works.


A red filter excludes heat. Changes in temperature or external sources of hot or cold do not pass through the filter or have any effect on the temperature of the other side. Any physical objects which move through a red filter which are warmer than the ambient temperature on the other side have their temperature reduced to match the temperature on the other side of the filter. Living creatures cannot have their internal temperatures forcibly changed by this effect, but all inanimate material is subject to the filtration. A red filter is vulnerable to extremely low temperatures. If it absorbs a total amount of cold damage equal to the Spot check, it collapses.

If you were to try to use this to crush heat into a small area, all you would do is reduce the temperature of the molecules that the filter passes through to the ambient temperature. Red filters break the First Law of Thermodynamics, but they don't make point nukes.

[RFLS]

Pretty sure that's not how the red filter works.

If you were to try to use this to crush heat into a small area, all you would do is reduce the temperature of the molecules that the filter passes through to the ambient temperature. Red filters break the First Law of Thermodynamics, but they don't make point nukes.

I can't decide which is worse: The implications of dissipating the heat entirely, or just keeping it out.

[Lateral]

I can't decide which is worse: The implications of dissipating the heat entirely, or just keeping it out.

Iknowrite?

But as far as applying physics to magic goes, what you're thinking about is comparable to saying that because of the First Law of Thermodynamics, whenever you cast fireball, there should be a second ball dealing the same amount of cold damage.
Although it's pretty funny how ARCD is loosely based on the laws of thermodynamics, considering a baccalaureate KALD principle defies them.

[Morcleon]

If you were to try to use this to crush heat into a small area, all you would do is reduce the temperature of the molecules that the filter passes through to the ambient temperature. Red filters break the First Law of Thermodynamics, but they don't make point nukes.

You don't only use a red filter. You also superimpose an orange filter in the same space as the reds, which stop gases from moving through. :smallwink:

[Lateral]

You don't only use a red filter. You also superimpose an orange filter in the same space as the reds, which stop gases from moving through. :smallwink:
Well, if you're using an orange filter, you don't need the red filter. But, if you're doing that, pretty soon the pressure will be far too high for you to keep pushing it. Yeah, you could create nuclear fusion with it, but really that's just using the filter as an unbreakable crushing surface. You'd still need to push it far enough to make the air fuse. (Which is a lot of force- even trying to fuse hydrogen, we'd need a fission bomb to do it. It's really just a less efficient Teller-Ulam hydrogen bomb, the filter doesn't actually serve a purpose.

(Besides, long before it fused, the pressure would make the oxygen deposit as a solid. Which would then, with the sudden release of pressure caused by the fact that it is no longer affected by the orange filter, explode.)

[Omnicrat]

As a general rule, if you find a trick with gramarie because in the real world X would happen, your trick doesn't work.

An exception is gravity ships being better than engines, because D&D has BASIC rules for gravity in that it has falling damage/speeds.

[Lateral]

Aye.

...Speaking of gravity, does anyone know what happens when there are two polarcane fluxes in the same area? Like I said, I thought that the one with the higher Forgery check overrode the other, but I can't find the rule anywhere.

[Omnicrat]

That seems like a good ruleing. That, or its choice-based.

[Koravel]

quote from player in question: "Yes, but do I really want to be a magic trade worker until 7th level? I mean I really like Grammaire,but I'm considering going Engineer simply so I can actually DO things. I honestly can't figure out what use a <7th level Gramaireist is"

and he's talking about the Base Class: The Engineer [3.5; PEACH] by Lappy 9000.

His characters eventual goal is to create a utopia unaffiliated with one of the only remaining human civilzations on the gameworld

[Qwertystop]

You can do things. What you do is make stuff. In combat time, what you do is use the stuff you made. It really requires thinking and planning and creativity to put it all together, and frankly that's working as intended.

[Omnicrat]

One thing you can do is make heat-based weapons (especially if you have access to lava) as well as near-impenetrable armor.

You can make structures durable enough to be skyscrapers.

You can create infinite storage space.

You can Terraform terrain.

You can build cars.

You can make self=-healing air purifying buildings.

You can produce spells infinitely for little investment.

Basically, you can do a lot.

[Amechra]

What was the list of things that Grammarie can't do without Silver Transformers, again?

I can't recall off the top of my head.

[RFLS]

Basically everything =P

[Omnicrat]

What was the list of things that Grammarie can't do without Silver Transformers, again?

I can't recall off the top of my head.

Replicate the effects of epic spells?

[radmelon]

What was the list of things that Grammarie can't do without Silver Transformers, again?

I can't recall off the top of my head.

Speaking of which, wasn't it discussed a while back that silver transformers are going to be changed to having a different effect to prevent them being the quintessential 'do everything' principle. Is this still in the works?

[Tulir]

This is one of the coolest Homebrew's I have seen. It is amazing. Utterly amazing.

[Arcanist]

Speaking of which, wasn't it discussed a while back that silver transformers are going to be changed to having a different effect to prevent them being the quintessential 'do everything' principle. Is this still in the works?

Kellus, like the Avatar has vanished so we don't know if/when this project will be continued :smallannoyed:

[RFLS]

Hey, quick question: I know there are ways to generate a constant stream of ebbs. Is there a way to do it using only Grammaric principles?

[Omnicrat]

Hey, quick question: I know there are ways to generate a constant stream of ebbs. Is there a way to do it using only Grammaric principles?

As in use a principle as the source of energy?

...

Maybe some stuff with PrC immachination?


Sunmetal to leadin.


The hot iron to heatin. I'm sleepy and don't feel like looking up the name, give me a break.

I'm sure there's a lot geoculltism can do.


There's probably more, but I can't think of it off the top of my head.

[Draken]

I'm a fan of multiple copper inputs in the path of a silver output set to lightning bolt, personally. With one of the Copperins feeding the Silverout.

Bonus points for making the whole setup a 120 ft. tall tower.

[Necroticplague]

I'm a fan of multiple copper inputs in the path of a silver output set to lightning bolt, personally. With one of the Copperins feeding the Silverout.

Bonus points for making the whole setup a 120 ft. tall tower.

Combine with an E.I. that can change the target of the Lightning Bolt, and you have just invented the Tesla Tower. Or possibly the most excessively large Van der Graaf machine in existence.

[Omnicrat]

Combine with an E.I. that can change the target of the Lightning Bolt, and you have just invented the Tesla Tower. Or possibly the most excessively large Van der Graaf machine in existence.

Closer to Tesla Tower, I would say, but it doesn't have the WMD capacity of it, just a normal WD.


I'm a fan of multiple copper inputs in the path of a silver output set to lightning bolt, personally. With one of the Copperins feeding the Silverout.

Bonus points for making the whole setup a 120 ft. tall tower.

I think the questioner meant only principles with nothing coming from the outside, which a spell cast into a silverout would be.

[Draken]

Closer to Tesla Tower, I would say, but it doesn't have the WMD capacity of it, just a normal WD.



I think the questioner meant only principles with nothing coming from the outside, which a spell cast into a silverout would be.

A copperout works too, it is just not quite as efficient and requires more preparation time than the silverout.

[kharmakazy]

This is super interesting... but is it the least bit playable? At level one lets say I pick the alchemy ability... I can make things harder. That's great and all... I don't even...

[Morcleon]

This is super interesting... but is it the least bit playable? At level one lets say I pick the alchemy ability... I can make things harder. That's great and all... I don't even...

Just because you select a discipline doesn't mean you can only make principles from that discipline. You can take non-specialist disciplines from any discipline.

A single gramarist is just a nice boost, with extra utility for their party. But a party of gramarists is a not so much a group, as a force of nature. :smallbiggrin:

[Qwertystop]

You could also pick KALD 101, and get a yellow filter locked a few feet in front of your belt buckle. Make five of them so you have all directions except down covered. There, perfect unattackability from any enemy using any metal or stone weapons.

You could get YGGD 101, and get a hole in the air that you can put stuff in. Ultimate smuggler.

You could get IMCH 101, and fake anything, one sense at a time.

You could get a 60 little iron needles and use ELDK 101 on them, then put it all on a log (1 log per minute, so you get one second) and they all fly at Projectile speed wherever you pointed them.

You're only looking at one of the options, and it's the one with the least uses on its own - ALCH 101 is a supplement that makes things more suited to the crazy uses you'll put it through.

[Necroticplague]

You could also pick KALD 101, and get a yellow filter locked a few feet in front of your belt buckle. Make five of them so you have all directions except down covered. There, perfect unattackability from any enemy using any metal or stone weapons.

You could get YGGD 101, and get a hole in the air that you can put stuff in. Ultimate smuggler.

You could get IMCH 101, and fake anything, one sense at a time.

You could get a 60 little iron needles and use ELDK 101 on them, then put it all on a log (1 log per minute, so you get one second) and they all fly at Projectile speed wherever you pointed them.

You're only looking at one of the options, and it's the one with the least uses on its own - ALCH 101 is a supplement that makes things more suited to the crazy uses you'll put it through.

On it's own, ALCH is generally used to solves problems like "how are you going to get mercury to stay a solid?" or "what kind of material is strong enough for this? ". However, specializing in it and then using the enhanced materials opens up all kind of useful stuff (phlogistan+icein=infinite ebbs). The main problem is that the highest level of principles are often aided the most by several specialist principles. For example, brassbush is most useful if you have a specialist alchemestrist to provide ehanced property to it. So the usefulness of grammary goes up with the amount of PCs that can access it.

[Qwertystop]

On it's own, ALCH is generally used to solves problems like "how are you going to get mercury to stay a solid?" or "what kind of material is strong enough for this? ". However, specializing in it and then using the enhanced materials opens up all kind of useful stuff (phlogistan+icein=infinite ebbs). The main problem is that the highest level of principles are often aided the most by several specialist principles. For example, brassbush is most useful if you have a specialist alchemestrist to provide ehanced property to it. So the usefulness of grammary goes up with the amount of PCs that can access it.

Exactly - you use it to boost other stuff, at least with the low-level principles.

[Hanuman]

Just because you select a discipline doesn't mean you can only make principles from that discipline. You can take non-specialist disciplines from any discipline.

A single gramarist is just a nice boost, with extra utility for their party. But a party of gramarists is a not so much a group, as a force of nature. :smallbiggrin:

I rather have a crafty wizard too so the party starts accumulating lyres of building.


Here's a question!!

Can you activate and utilize a lyre of building by only using gramatic principles?
Like, can you give it to a chassis or AI mechanical rigging to be used on its own.

[Necroticplague]

I rather have a crafty wizard too so the party starts accumulating lyres of building.


Here's a question!!

Can you activate and utilize a lyre of building by only using gramatic principles?
Like, can you give it to a chassis or AI mechanical rigging to be used on its own.

Standard chassis, eing mindless and thus having no skills, can't perform. Standard EI, having no physical body, can't interact with the Lyre to play it. An intelligent chassis, or an EI with a chassis body, can use the Lyre.

[Morcleon]

I rather have a crafty wizard too so the party starts accumulating lyres of building.


Here's a question!!

Can you activate and utilize a lyre of building by only using gramatic principles?
Like, can you give it to a chassis or AI mechanical rigging to be used on its own.

Meh, wizards may be able to be super-prepared, but an infinite horde of troops, a disjunction gatling gun and a bomb with radius measured in light-years can still kill you. :smallbiggrin:

Um, yes. Just have an AI or intelligent construct use it. But as a gramarist, you already have spectrocontruction, which is effectively like a lyre of building, but several times per day.

[Hanuman]

Meh, wizards may be able to be super-prepared, but an infinite horde of troops, a disjunction gatling gun and a bomb with radius measured in light-years can still kill you. :smallbiggrin:

Um, yes. Just have an AI or intelligent construct use it. But as a gramarist, you already have spectrocontruction, which is effectively like a lyre of building, but several times per day.

Yes, but if you start attaching automatic lyres of building onto a floating fortress you get extra shielding which doubles as building turrets.

Not only is your use of this ability only limited by your wealth, but you can also use it at a concentrated rate rather than it taking time.

Imagine just 10 lyres of building functioning in unison simultaneously.

30m/100hu/3d, 30m/10 = 3m, 3m/3d = 1m/1d

(Correct if wrong) 24m * 100hu /60 = 40 Manhours/second

2400 manhours / minute or 72000 manhours per .5hours.

If we are talking simple housing, this could create an entire town, or level one.


Now if we think higher end, we could have 100 lyre equivalent and multiply above factors by 10.

[atriusnight]

Hey, just wanted to say;
I love this!!

I'm currently working on a campaign, the players are starting at level one in your class as students or bioconstructs.
it will be mad science in action!

I actually plan to have the world such that this is the only PC class.. with NPCs for everything else.
Magewrights and adepts are rare individuals whose arts have been picked apart for the groundings of this class.

Wouldn't mind any thoughts on the matter...

[Necroticplague]

You could argue that ince playing a lyre is a person using up his time to do so, you could have spectroconstruction play the lyre, and then have it play itself using some of its man-hours. This would, of courss, lead to a feedback loop that would allow it to play forever on its own once you start it.

[Omnicrat]

You could argue that ince playing a lyre is a person using up his time to do so, you could have spectroconstruction play the lyre, and then have it play itself using some of its man-hours. This would, of courss, lead to a feedback loop that would allow it to play forever on its own once you start it.

Standard spectroconstruction can't make skill checks.

[Moonwolf727]

Hmm. Something that has always bothered me about Gramarie has reared its head again. I love Yggdratechture, I really really do, but something about the aesthetic has preplexed me for a while.

I can understand that when you make the opening to a box into a semi-space the inside will look like a larger version of the inside of the box. But what happens when you do it to a doorway that doesn't lead to a room? What are the walls and floor made of? What color is it? I realise that you can very easily apply a bit of Imachination and just not disbelieve it to make it look however you like but this has irked me for a while.

[Demented Dragon]

Hmm. Something that has always bothered me about Gramarie has reared its head again. I love Yggdratechture, I really really do, but something about the aesthetic has preplexed me for a while.

I can understand that when you make the opening to a box into a semi-space the inside will look like a larger version of the inside of the box. But what happens when you do it to a doorway that doesn't lead to a room? What are the walls and floor made of? What color is it? I realise that you can very easily apply a bit of Imachination and just not disbelieve it to make it look however you like but this has irked me for a while.

For some reason I imagined it as empty white space, but that's just because I couldn't think of anything else... And I'd actually considered using IMACH 101 for it. Possibly playing in a game soon with that as my specialty so quite curious XD

[Mithril Leaf]

Standard spectroconstruction can't make skill checks.

Of course this is taken care of nicely for Alchemists.

[yugi24862]

On the ebb generator discussion, My preferred ebb generator is what I call a Tesla coil, which I just designed to get a cheapish ebb generator at 7th level. Heres the basic schematic.

Tesla Coil Generator
First, get a 15x15x15 space. It works best in its own room, but if you have time to set up you can do it in any space of the right size. In the direct centre of the room, on a 7.5ft tall podium, you place a silver/silver transformer. The silver out is keyed to a bought scroll of Electric Maximised fireball (I assume I can buy one, since we start in Arcantrx), which I UMD if necessary. Surrounding the central podium is 12 other podiums, 6 on the same level as the centre, 3 above and 3 below. On each of the lesser podiums is a Copper/Wood transformer. This means there is 12 5ft nets fully surrounding the central podium. Finally, there is also a heuristical circuit enclosing the entire room.

Once started, by either a 6th level scroll being cast at the silver input or 6 spell level of Eldritch blasts (so two 6th level Gramarists), a Lightning Fireball explodes from the central podium, and then is neutralized by the surrounding copper transformers. This produces 9 ebbs of energy per transformer , so 108 ebbs total. 8 ebbs is used every round on the silver output, leaving a round 100 ebbs spare for any use.

[Hanuman]

Standard spectroconstruction can't make skill checks.
What's the best way to make skill checks with the gramarie then?
Craft checks are probably the most interesting as a gramarie can construct industrial factories, and creation of goods is def. the most powerful thing a gramarist can do.

[Necroticplague]

On the ebb generator discussion, My preferred ebb generator is what I call a Tesla coil, which I just designed to get a cheapish ebb generator at 7th level. Heres the basic schematic.

Tesla Coil Generator
First, get a 15x15x15 space. It works best in its own room, but if you have time to set up you can do it in any space of the right size. In the direct centre of the room, on a 7.5ft tall podium, you place a silver/silver transformer. The silver out is keyed to a bought scroll of Electric Maximised fireball (I assume I can buy one, since we start in Arcantrx), which I UMD if necessary. Surrounding the central podium is 12 other podiums, 6 on the same level as the centre, 3 above and 3 below. On each of the lesser podiums is a Copper/Wood transformer. This means there is 12 5ft nets fully surrounding the central podium. Finally, there is also a heuristical circuit enclosing the entire room.

Once started, by either a 6th level scroll being cast at the silver input or 6 spell level of Eldritch blasts (so two 6th level Gramarists), a Lightning Fireball explodes from the central podium, and then is neutralized by the surrounding copper transformers. This produces 9 ebbs of energy per transformer , so 108 ebbs total. 8 ebbs is used every round on the silver output, leaving a round 100 ebbs spare for any use.

Combine with Extradimensional Spell, then re-set up a copy of the CopperIns on the Ethereal, and you've doubled your output (slightly more, since price in ebbs doesn't double) for the same amount of space and ebbs needed to jumpstart/maintain.

[Arcanist]

Combine with Extradimensional Spell, then re-set up a copy of the CopperIns on the Ethereal, and you've doubled your output (slightly more, since price in ebbs doesn't double) for the same amount of space and ebbs needed to jumpstart/maintain.

You mean Transdimensional spell right? :smallconfused:

Who says Gramarist don't have potential for combat?
Anywho! I've been thinking for a while "Yeah, the Gramarist is meant to be in a world builder type campaign, but as it is, it is completely incapable of combat on even the most basic levels." If the Gramarist is meant to be a Science major with a magical twist, why not just give it some The easiest solution to this would be adding class features to allow it to function in a standard game without effecting the class to much. Making these class features based on Skill check of their discipline seems like it would make it a little bit more thematically without making them to overpowered. Just to name some other ideas (besides Biollurgy). I'd also like to politely point out that this is partially based on the immediate magic concept, all of them can be performed a number of times equal to the users Int modifier.

Alchemetry (Su): As a move action, a Gramarist specializing in Alchemetry can alter the structure of any metal based weapon they are currently wielding into either Adamantine, Alchemical Silver, Cold Iron or Mithral with a +1 Enchantment bonus on it. Performing this requires a Diplomacy check of at least 10. For every 10 additional points for which you beat the check, you gain an additional +1 bonus to a maximum of +5. This effect last for 3 rounds per Gramarist level and can only be used on one weapon at a time.

Arcanodynamics (Ex): As a move action, a Gramarist specializing in Arcanodynamics can alter or enhance the energy discharged from any source of damage to Cold, Fire, Electric, or Acid. You can also increase the amount of energy discharge by an additional d6 of damage by making a Use Magic Device check of at least 10. For every 10 additional points for which you beat the check, you increase it by another d6 to a maximum of 5d6. This effect last for 24 hours or until changed.

Biollurgy (Ex): When attacking a target, a Gramarist specialized in Biollurgy can attack a target's exposed vitals, causing them to experience more damage than they would normally. By making a Heal check of at least 10 you can deal an additional d6 of damage to your target. For every 10 additional points for which you beat the check, you increase it by 2d6 up to a maximum of 11d6.

Eldrikinetics (Su): As a standard action, a Gramarist specialized in Eldrikinetics can spontaneously generate 100 push upon any touched object by making a Concentration check of at least 10. For every 10 additional points for which you beat the check, you can apply an additional 100 push upon an object up to a maximum of 500 push. This push is sustained for 5 rounds per Gramarist level.

Geoccultism (Su): As a standard action, a Gramarist specialized in Geoccultism can cause sudden environmental shifts either whipping up windstorms, causing cold snaps or heralding heat waves. By making a Survival check of at least 10 you can alter the temperature in either direction by 20. For every additional 10 points for which you beat the check you can alter it another 20 degrees as low as Unearthly cold or Burning Heat. Alternatively you can create a wind forces; By making a Survival check of at least 10 you can increase or decrease the wind force by 20mph. For every additional 10 points for which you beat the check you can alter it by another 20mph up to a maximum of 180mph, furthermore by making a Survival check of at least 20 you can alter a windstorm into Rainstorms or Thunderstorms during any condition, Snowstorms or Hailstorms during temperatures below 30° F, and Sandstorms in a desert terrain. This effect last for 10 minutes per Gramarist level, extends out to 1 mile per 2 Gramarist levels (with a base of 1 mile at 1st level) and you are immune to any effect you cause.

Heuristicism (Su): As a move action, a Gramarist specialized in Heuristicism can link their minds to either a small group of people or a series of Heuristic Circuits. By making an Autohypnosis check of at least 10 you can touch a willing creature or circuit and gain the ability to sense everything that would occur within that creatures line of sight or within 30ft of that circuit. The Gramarist must be within 1 mile of the circuit or creature to be able to gain the benefits of this ability. For every additional 10 points for which you beat this check you can connect to another creature or circuit up to a maximum of 5 in total. This effect last 1 day per Gramarist level.

Imachination (Ex): As a standard action, a Gramarist specialized in Imachination can create a series of false sensory information for targets to interpret. The Gramarist can instantly set up a number of Imachination principles to create any number of disguises with the drawback being that only a small number of creatures can actually interact with these illusions. You can set these Illusions up by making a Bluff check of at least 10 to effect 2 creatures. For every additional 10 points for which you beat this check you can effect another 2 creatures up to a maximum of 10. This effect last a 10 minutes per Gramarist level.

Kaleidomantics (Ex): As an immediate action, a Gramarist specialized in Kaleidomantics can instantly set up a single surface Kaleidomantic filter by making a Spot check of at least 10. For each additional 10 points for which you beat this check you can set up an additional Kaleidomantic filter up to a maximum of 5 filters. These filters only last for 1 round per Gramarist level before dissolving away.

Yggdratecture (Su): As an Immediate action, a Gramarist specialized in Yggdratecture can momentarily tear into a portal through the nearest transitive plane to arrive at a new destination on his original plane (that is, the plane he originally performed this on). By making a Forgery check of at least 10, you can move out 10ft in any direction with a flat surface that you can stand on. For each additional 10 points for which you beat this check you can move another 10ft up to a maximum of 50ft.

Anyone have any ideas to make these less supernatural-y?

[Hanuman]

Alright fellas, I'm about to make a BIG project using Gramarie, and I may need your help as a lot of you are gramarist jedi by now.


The Project:

My next campaign is themed to Earthbound/Mother3, there will be a few factors to line up the BBEG but I need a campaign-wide miniboss, and that boss will be using Gramarie to gain major advantages over the entire campaign where previously there was no gramarie.

As the characters progress the BBEG miniboss will grow in power, changing the world so the players will travel through it's wake, seeing changes that happen recently, this process will be more and more difficult to stop until it gets to high level gramarie.

Thoughts for how this should evolve and change the campaign for this BBEG miniboss' rise to power and wealth?

[Necroticplague]

You mean Transdimensional spell right? :smallconfused:


Whichever one allows yo to hit target on the Ethereal.

[Draken]

Gramarists have plenty of potential for combat, they just need to build the right things for that.

[Morcleon]

Gramarists have plenty of potential for combat, they just need to build the right things for that.

With a bit of time, a couple gramarists, and the right principles, you could easily have a weapon dealing hundreds of dice of damage per round at level 1. Or a weapon that just spams SoD spells many times per round. >.>

[Thirdtwin]

Wow, this is an impressive system. I'm honestly rather intimidated by its depth, which is worrisome because my DM in an upcoming game wants us all to make use of gramarie to one degree or another. That leads me to my question. Initially I was particularly intrigued by the geoccultism discipline; the idea of altering the very biomes of a locale (with a big hunk of metal I guess) sounded like the bee's knees. I sort of began visualizing my potential character as bringing about something akin to the Green Revolution, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution) producing more food more efficiently so that maybe commoners could find something to do besides dirt farming. But upon deeper analysis of the actual effects of geoccultism, I'm not quite certain I can achieve that goal through those methods. So I guess my question is, what are some good ways to harness gramarie to do that?

[Omnicrat]

EI-driven chassis slave-farmers.

Or just instinctual chassis that farm and are unintelligent.

[Necroticplague]

Wow, this is an impressive system. I'm honestly rather intimidated by its depth, which is worrisome because my DM in an upcoming game wants us all to make use of gramarie to one degree or another. That leads me to my question. Initially I was particularly intrigued by the geoccultism discipline; the idea of altering the very biomes of a locale (with a big hunk of metal I guess) sounded like the bee's knees. I sort of began visualizing my potential character as bringing about something akin to the Green Revolution, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution) producing more food more efficiently so that maybe commoners could find something to do besides dirt farming. But upon deeper analysis of the actual effects of geoccultism, I'm not quite certain I can achieve that goal through those methods. So I guess my question is, what are some good ways to harness gramarie to do that?
Feature, you can use up metal (or ebbs) to instantly renew them. Like if you have a Forest, you could have it renew all of its fungi every day, making you highly capable of feeding a lot of people as long as they don't mind eating mushrooms. Or swamps are excellent for growing rice, while wetland could grow rice as a feature. You could use bizzarechitecture to increase yeild/amount of space (by combining with another pole so inside the architecture is something farmable, not city).

On a related note: minor typo: under acid bog, the phrase "acid bog bog" Icomes up, i'm pretty sure that's not intentional.

[Kellus]

Hey people that like gramarie!

I'm working on a Mark 2 of this material for the new thread we're going to need shortly, and I have a little free time to work on it. The things I'm definitely going to add are:

Feats
New base class (the sapper)
400-level Theories
Some small fixes and tweaks I've been working on for the last couple months on-and-off

What I want to know from you is what extra material would you most like to see during this brief spurt of productivity before I get drawn back into exam hell? Prestige classes? Racial substitution levels? A new discipline? If anything gets a ton of traction, I'll see what I can do before we reach the end of page 50!

And as always, stay awesome :smallcool:

[Omnicrat]

There seems to be a big push to not have spells in silverouts. For example, without a house ruling, a silverout can get infinite iron, which can be used to make infinity silverouts and other principles. I had a post a long time ago about what is specifically needed to replace spellouts without loosing too much.

[Arkhaic]

What I'd like to see is a class that can whip up temporary gramaric creations—doesn't do large permanent stuff, probably has *more* available principles, and is more suited to adventuring.
Edit: Possibly with a way to power outputs with a swift action.

[Kellus]

There seems to be a big push to not have spells in silverouts. For example, without a house ruling, a silverout can get infinite iron, which can be used to make infinity silverouts and other principles. I had a post a long time ago about what is specifically needed to replace spellouts without loosing too much.

Silver for spells is getting the boot. Too much potential for abuse. It's going to be tied to life force (hit points) instead, along with two other new transformer types to cover the difference.

[RFLS]

Hey people that like gramarie!

I'm working on a Mark 2 of this material for the new thread we're going to need shortly, and I have a little free time to work on it. The things I'm definitely going to add are:

Feats
New base class (the sapper)
400-level Theories
Some small fixes and tweaks I've been working on for the last couple months on-and-off

What I want to know from you is what extra material would you most like to see during this brief spurt of productivity before I get drawn back into exam hell? Prestige classes? Racial substitution levels? A new discipline? If anything gets a ton of traction, I'll see what I can do before we reach the end of page 50!

And as always, stay awesome :smallcool:

=DDDDD The level of excitement I have for this right now is astounding. Is this a strictly one-person show, or can I help somehow?

[Omnicrat]

If your stuff is good enough he'll put it in, based on Amechra giving him stuff.

[Necroticplague]

If I could offer a suggestion, possibly related to one of those new transformers talked about, if one is based on magic than it seems sensible enough for psionics to also work. Given how psionics is obsessed with crystals, it seems like a crystal would make a logical choice. But then, what to turn the one for sound into? Possibly glass (used in soundproofing, but produces harmonics if set right, still is a material that can't be made using alchemetry)

[Coryen]

Hey, glad to hear you're back. I really like the system you have here, and recently played in a short campaign using it as the primary ruleset.

My group and I had some observations about the system as a whole.
For the record, we had an Alchemitrist, Dungeonjammer, and a Graughtsman as our group, with accompanying specialties, and I played a Geoccultist with full levels in Gramarist. We had control of the world within about 12 levels. The campaign setting was a Dyson Sphere shortly thereafter.

1. Too Few Options - We had a group of 4 Gramarists (One was multi-class) and among us there was way too much overlap. Each of us taking a discipline another had was pointless, as they could use the discipline twice as well. Plus a character gets what, 4-5 Tier 1 options? While they can have that many skills, they might want to spend those very generous skill points on character, and campaign related skills, and knowledges.
Too many good things are reserved for Magisterial level. Its like gameplay doesn't begin until 7th level. Many of the disciplines get their major things at that time, like Geoccultists getting the ability to meaningfully contribute!
More options at each tier, especially at the first tier, would make that less of a hassle.

2. I noticed too few overall interactions between some of the Disciplines and the Ebb mechanics. Some disciplines used it extensively, but others had no integration at all. (Alchemetry, Biollurgy, Imachination, Kaleidomantics, Yggdratecture) It seemed like a decent way to add additional synergy between some the principles, and taking Arcanodynamics means you need to take the other Ebb using disciplines to justify it. (and vice versa)

3. Feats - We all agreed an Extra Principle feat would be fantastic! And feat options in general were lacking. As a Geoccultism specialist in the game, I had no incentive to take feats other than ones that boosted my Survival skill, which did take me until level 12 or so to take all the ones we could find, but it was pretty dull. Our Dungeonjammer didn't have any problems, but that one solves itself: he can take combat-oriented feats.

4. Some Principles being useless - Geoc 101 is really mostly a vanity tech, as it really allows you to have a nice base, or to ruin a town or environment.
Granted, the 2nd tier is amazing, but class feature taxes seem lame. Kald 207, for example, is garbage. Blue stops water? this is neat! Oh wait, it doesn't stop any water that actually exists in the world... Orange stops gasses! Wow with that I could make a high-altitude base! No, wait, a stiff wind obliterates it. No really, just sneezing destroys it. As does a jet stream, or the wings of most dragons, etc.

5. Prestige classes? Really? - Most of us, except myself, were drawn to a disciplines prestige class because for many of them, the PrC was a logical extension of what the Discipline should be able to do. The Geoccultism PrC made no sense to me; I styled my character a 'Future-Druid'; Wuxia fighting was the opposite of what I mostly did, which was terraforming and Architecture, so I stayed the base class. The other players said their PrC was essential. The Alch specialist liked his class and the fluff behind it, but others didn't see the draw; the Yggd specialist liked his class, but hated the prereqs since they are super-specific. The Biolurgy specialist liked his PrC, but found the two mechanical systems a bit overwhelming at times. I was fine with plain gramarist, but it could use some more options itself.

Granted, these were the things we talked about during and after the game. Overall, we liked the system, and it can integrate with normal D&D play, but it lacks support from Feats, and relies too heavily on PrC's I think. There is some cool stuff here, and with a bit more content, could be pretty easily playable. Our game lasted about 4-6 sessions (I don't recall exactly how many) but it was tons of fun working out how we were next going to accomplish a task (Like warfare, dungeon crawling, and urban development) with the tools we had, and our only complaint was that the solution, until level 7, was 'Let our Soon-to-be-Dungeon-Jammer just steamroll in and use violence or the threat of violence, while the rest of us sit back and drink tea.'

[Arcanist]

Gramarists have plenty of potential for combat, they just need to build the right things for that.

You have to completely build yourself up with feats and combinations of Gramarie to actually be able to function in combat (which at 1st level, is impossible to do). No, I'd rather the class be relatively idiotproof to the point where even if the Gramarist is caught with his/her pants down, they can still potentially survive. A Gramarist caught with no time to work has little chance of survival, which is why I suggest allowing the Gramarist to spontaneously set up a principle under their discipline that last a limited amount of time (an hour? 10 minutes? 5 rounds?). It shows that they rushed through the process of setting up the Principle and thus it is unstable and will last only long enough to protect the Gramarist. After a while of thinking over the originally suggest class features or Immediate Gramaries to be:

Immediate Gramarie: While working under pressure, a 1st level Gramarist can spontaneously set up a single principle to defend themselves with. You set this Principle up as if you were doing so normally, except the Preparation time is changed to a Full-round action and it last for 1 minute per level of Gramarist. You can do this once per day per Int modifier.


Hey people that like gramarie!

I'm working on a Mark 2 of this material for the new thread we're going to need shortly, and I have a little free time to work on it. The things I'm definitely going to add are:

Feats
New base class (the sapper)
400-level Theories
Some small fixes and tweaks I've been working on for the last couple months on-and-off

What I want to know from you is what extra material would you most like to see during this brief spurt of productivity before I get drawn back into exam hell? Prestige classes? Racial substitution levels? A new discipline? If anything gets a ton of traction, I'll see what I can do before we reach the end of page 50!

And as always, stay awesome :smallcool:

Just the above class feature (or your take on it), the 400 Theories and your minor fixes. I mostly need the 400 Theories to know how devastating a world powered by Epic Gramarie can be. If High powered Gramarie destroys worlds and turns them into the world of Fallout then what can the 400 Theories do? :smallamused:

The feats, extra prestige classes, Racial substitutions and potential for a new discipline would all just be gravy :smallamused:


Whichever one allows yo to hit target on the Ethereal.

Yep, Transdimensional spell :smalltongue:


With a bit of time, a couple gramarists, and the right principles, you could easily have a weapon dealing hundreds of dice of damage per round at level 1. Or a weapon that just spams SoD spells many times per round. >.>

Heuristicism is now my favorite principle because of this, mostly because of the Dreamason. At 9th level, you can make a compact minigun if the sustained motion thing that Kellus mentioned still applies :smallcool:

Random blueprint

Name: Micro Minigun
Principles: YGGD 101, HEUR 101, HEUR 245, ARCD 204, ELDK 219.
Prestige class: Dreamason.
Time: 13 hours.
Patent: Arcanist
Summary:

This combines my three favorite Disciplines into one of my favorite weapons and makes it into effectively the size of a handgun... Yes, you make a handgun minigun... Which is like a machine gun with more ammo... Hmm... I should really reconsider my taste in weaponry... ANYWAY!

Take one Semi-space and put it into a small container and put 8 Ballistic Engines inside of it with a network of Golden Transformers with a number of Continual light rocks to power them. Then you connect the transformers to the engines to supply power and place a control point to connect and disconnect the power to fire off your rounds. How you reload is entirely up to you. I actually like the idea of making clips for it that can be connected as needed to reload.

[Amechra]

Silver for spells is getting the boot. Too much potential for abuse. It's going to be tied to life force (hit points) instead, along with two other new transformer types to cover the difference.

FINALLY!

The prodigal brewer has returned!

Now, I have a secret plot I need to share with you...

[Arcanist]

Anyone have any ideas how to make a YGGD Semi-space able to endure a Sunmetal explosion... Happening everywhere at once? :smalltongue:

"VAULT-TEC! RESERVE YOURS TODAY!" :smallbiggrin:

[Morcleon]

Anyone have any ideas how to make a YGGD Semi-space able to endure a Sunmetal explosion... Happening everywhere at once? :smalltongue:

"VAULT-TEC! RESERVE YOURS TODAY!" :smallbiggrin:

Turn it into a demiplane? That removed the "destroyed by damage" thing... :smalltongue:

[Arcanist]

Turn it into a demiplane? That removed the "destroyed by damage" thing... :smalltongue:

And once again, I overlook the most obvious solution :smalltongue:

Now that I have the basest components for my Vaults how will we make such an environment hospitable for a number of people to live in for a minimum of 900 years (You never know... Your entire plane might be uninhabitable by the Nuclear Holocaust or Viral Plague! ... IT COULD HAPPEN! ... "THINK VAULT-TEC!")

[Morcleon]

And once again, I overlook the most obvious solution :smalltongue:

Now that I have the basest components for my Vaults how will we make such an environment hospitable for a number of people to live in for a minimum of 900 years (You never know... Your entire plane might be uninhabitable by the Nuclear Holocaust or Viral Plague! ... "THINK VAULT-TEC!)

Air: CO2 to O2 biostructure.
Water: Tiny portals to a freshwater place on the Elemental Plane of Water.
Food: SilverOuts of Create Food and Water
Shelter: Various GEOC and spectrocontruction.

Anything else?

[Arcanist]

Air: CO2 to O2 biostructure.
Water: Tiny portals to a freshwater place on the Elemental Plane of Water.
Food: SilverOuts of Create Food and Water
Shelter: Various GEOC and spectrocontruction.

Anything else?

... THINK VAULT-TEC! :smalltongue: Seriously, what is with me and overlooking the blatantly obvious for things that I want to make?

[Volthawk]

Geoccultism will be useful here (especially if you don't want silver outputs which may be wise with the upcoming redesign), perhaps with multiple poles providing different things - streams, fountains or freshwater biomes for water; fungus or plants/animals grown on biomes for food; city biomes for homes (or just wood from tree-using biomes). Recycling air would be best supported by biollurgy (I mean, you could try to make a proper artificial ecosystem with the plants and animals and such, I guess, but biostructure converters are probably easier to control and calibrate...

Mind, this is less a vault and more a miniture world...would need a metric crapton of preparations to get the space too. It would also need a whole lot of metal to start with (ongoing costs can be paid for by ebbs)

Y'know, now I'm starting to have a proper look at it, I think geoccultism is my favourite discipline now (maybe tied with biollurgy).

[Morcleon]

... THINK VAULT-TEC! :smalltongue: Seriously, what is with me and overlooking the blatantly obvious for things that I want to make?

Because you subconsciously want me to help you with stuff? :smalltongue:

[Arcanist]

Geoccultism will be useful here (especially if you don't want silver outputs which may be wise with the upcoming redesign), perhaps with multiple poles providing different things - streams, fountains or freshwater biomes for water; fungus or plants/animals grown on biomes for food; city biomes for homes (or just wood from tree-using biomes). Recycling air would be best supported by biollurgy (I mean, you could try to make a proper artificial ecosystem with the plants and animals and such, I guess, but biostructure converters are probably easier to control and calibrate...

Mind, this is less a vault and more a miniture world...would need a metric crapton of preparations to get the space too.

Y'know, now I'm starting to have a proper look at it, I think geoccultism is my favourite discipline now (maybe tied with biollurgy).

I like to use as little Gramarie and magical items as humanly possible. Mostly because I hate being vulnerable to the almighty Anti-magic field, but that is for personal taste and as low a level as humanly possible (without being 20th level for Architect)... It is my way!


Because you subconsciously want me to help you with stuff? :smalltongue:

FALSE! I subconsciously fear asking for help and would never consciously or subconsciously ask for help! Now to make Securitrons and Daleks... To many different principles required! ERROR. ERROR. ERROR. SYSTEM CRASHING! DELETE! DESTROY! OBLITERATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!!!!!!!! :smallfurious:

[Draken]

Hmm... Fair, after a review I checked that none of the 101 principles have any possible combat application other than, perhaps, making your gear harder to sunder.

Unless living creatures can be turned into biostructure, because if they can, that is the strongest possible option.

Arcanodynamics could be used, but it meets the small issue that Eldritch Wick is useless. The class could really use Eldritch Blast at level 1 instead of 2.

[popmicpop]

Because the arcanodynamics heat transformer takes the energy from a field around it, couldn't you, when using it to absorb energy, just put a red filter around it to keep it frozen, rather than working on it for a long time with alchemetry to make it only melt at extreme temperatures?

[Volthawk]

I like to use as little Gramarie and magical items as humanly possible. Mostly because I hate being vulnerable to the almighty Anti-magic field, but that is for personal taste and as low a level as humanly possible (without being 20th level for Architect)... It is my way!

Oh, the Eden Project is by no means the simplest, most resilient method.of doing things. I just like it because it's a bit bigger, grander and more expansive than just a row of biostructure and transformer boxes. Plus I just like the idea of the hiding place from catastrophe being a moni version of the world you came from. So yeah.

To be fair, all the geoccultism mentioned is available at 7th level onwards.The high-level/doctorate stuff is just the big demiplane which you're having to need anyway if you want your demiplane hideaway to be bigger than 64 cubic feet (the limit pre-doctorate).

[Draken]

Because the arcanodynamics heat transformer takes the energy from a field around it, couldn't you, when using it to absorb energy, just put a red filter around it to keep it frozen, rather than working on it for a long time with alchemetry to make it only melt at extreme temperatures?

It is honestly just a choice of which principle you will use. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

[Arcanist]

It is honestly just a choice of which principle you will use. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

At first level you only have a single choice in principles, unless you are suggesting that the Extra Principle feat be taken twice at first level as a Human to be able to fight actually use their Gramarie to the fullest. You need to remember that at first level you only have a single principle and that Principle better be the best damn principle out of your 9 choices :smallconfused:

[Draken]

At first level you only have a single choice in principles, unless you are suggesting that the Extra Principle feat be taken twice at first level as a Human to be able to fight actually use their Gramarie to the fullest. You need to remember that at first level you only have a single principle and that Principle better be the best damn principle out of your 9 choices :smallconfused:

What I answered pertained to a situation that can only arise after 7th level since it relies on a magisterial grade principle. I mean, it was something else entirely.

On a previous post I agreed that Gramarist 1 is possibly the worst level anyone could take in a class that is not meant for npcs. None of the options are really all that useful at that point.

[Arcanist]

What I answered pertained to a situation that can only arise after 7th level since it relies on a magisterial grade principle. I mean, it was something else entirely.

On a previous post I agreed that Gramarist 1 is possibly the worst level anyone could take in a class that is not meant for npcs. None of the options are really all that useful at that point.

This topic of discussion is difficult because of this text expressed by Kellus


However, it's important to recognize that gramarists are not focused on combat at all, and will not do well if that's their primary goal.

The problem is giving the Gramarist something that they can fight with, without making it appear as if they can fight with it. I remember once upon a dream their was an idea to get the class Invocations like a Warlock that replicated effects that worked towards large scale construction (like the Wall spells and the like and some spells that conjured water.)

I'd like to see that go somewhere, but thus far it appears that we are at a moderate level of agreement that until 7th level the Gramarist matter as well be a dead level in how effective it is. The class is still playable it is effectively at the level of a tier 5 and at level 7 it suddenly spikes up to tier 0, it feels like it is running on Magikarp power progression :smallannoyed:

[Kellus]

Thanks for the excellent responses everybody, I'm getting a pretty good feel for what people are happy with and unhappy with. Thank you in particular for the playtest report, Coryen, that's such amazing feedback! :smallsmile:

Some of the changes which are definitely going to be happening:

- Pure gramarists now get perks for staying in the base class, including a more powerful eldritch blast which gets extra tweaks from principles you know (for example, knowing alchemetric principles allows you to transmute materials with it, biollurgical principles let you heal with it and spread diseases...), and they get to select a second specialization at 11th level!

- EVERY discipline gets a new 100-level specialist principle which gives you slightly more useful stuff to do at low levels!

- Some principles have been moved down in level, opening some avenues up at lower tech-levels

- Eldrikinetic engines are... just better in, like, every way.

- Prestige classes now just get discoveries off of standardized lists by discipline, which makes things easier for the new dual-specialization prestige classes and the vanilla gramarist, who also gets them in his specialization as he levels up.

- Feats! In particular one that allows you to get bonus principles and which can be taken as many times as your Cha modifier; however, you can only have one bonus principle from your highest level of principles. Other feats are Collegiate feats, which represent attending specific institutions, and work somewhat like those Bloodline feats that give you various thematically related perks depending on how many of them you have.

- A new Geoccult PrC that I like so much I'm gonna spoil it in the next post as a show of good faith!

Keep on keeping on good people!

—Chris

[Kellus]

The Stellar Cartographer

"What wouldn't I give now for a never-changing map of the ever-constant ineffable? To possess, as it were, an atlas of clouds.""

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs38/f/2008/323/a/d/Artisans__Cartographer_by_sijeney.jpg
Image credit MJWilliam (http://mjwilliam.deviantart.com/) of deviantart.com

The fear and wonder of the unknown has been the great driving force across all of history; pushing us to expand, to seek, to explore. The insatiable curiosity about what might be over the next hill, or across the next river, or beyond the horizon. Today, however, many believe that the mortal races have explored all of the dark corners, that we have nothing left to discover. Many, in fact, think of gramarie as the perfect expression of mortals conquering the ineffable world of the mystical and secret. There remain some, though, who recognize that there is always another secret, another hidden place to discover and explore, who long for that incredible feeling of bringing to light the secret places of the world. Gramarists who subscribe to this belief may join the ranks of the stellar cartographers, magical mapmakers who seek to push the boundaries of mortal knowledge beyond all reasonable limits, to find, to explore, and to chart higher and more secret realms. The calling attracts both the recklessly brave and also the idealistic dreamers in equal measure — to become a pioneering legend one cannot be afraid or what lies beyond the edges of the map; and a part of them must secretly desire never to return.

Requirements: To become a stellar cartographer you must meet all of the following requirements.
Feats: Diligent, Scribe Scroll
Gramarie: Any two GEOC principles
Skills: Decipher Script 6 ranks, Knowledge (nature) 6 ranks, Survival 10 ranks
Spellcasting: Must be able to prepare divine spells from a prayerbook
Specialization: Must be specialized in Geoccultism

Hit Die: d6
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Class Skills: The stellar cartographer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (architecture and engineering) (Int), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (the Planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

The Stellar Cartographer
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Divine Spellcasting|
Principles

1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Atlas above, mapmaking|
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|
+0

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Basic projections, cartographeme, dark knowledge +1/day|
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|
+1

3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3|Magical maps, mapitek|
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|
+2

4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Cartographeme|
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|
+3

5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Advanced projections, left-hand rule|
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|
+3

6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Cartographeme, dark knowledge +2/day|
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|
+4

7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Dynamic maps, maurauder's maps|
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|
+5

8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|Cartographeme|
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|
+6

9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|Astral projections, globetrotter|
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|
+6

10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Atlas below, cartographeme, dark knowledge +3/day|
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|
+7

[/table]

All of the following are class features of the stellar cartographer.

Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: As a stellar cartographer, you gain no additional weapon or armour proficiencies.

Atlas Above: Once you join the illustrious ranks of the stellar cartographers, you can transform your prayerbook into an atlas. Your atlas works exactly like a prayerbook, except that it follows a few special rules. You continue to learn two new spells for free every level, but you may now select these spells from the druid and ranger spell lists as well as the cleric spell list. When preparing your spells every day, you can make a Mapmaking check (see below) to update your atlas with a perfect map of the area around you. This has a DC of 20, and creates a magical map which shows major landmarks, terrain, and elevations with a radius in miles equal to the Mapmaking check. The map comes into being on a new page of your atlas, and never disappears unless it's forcibly ripped out of your atlas. You can only create one magical map per day this way.

Mapmaking (Ex): Stellar cartographers know a special skill that they can apply to create magical maps of their terrain. Starting at 1st level, you can make special Mapmaking checks whenever you would normally be required to perform any of the following tasks: reading a map, scribing a map, deciphering runes, researching an area's history, or creating a magical map in your atlas. Mapmaking checks are made using the highest of your ranks in any of Survival, Decipher Scipt, or Knowledge (geography), and apply the highest bonus modifiers of each type that you have on any of these individual skills.

Spellcasting: You continue to progress your divine spellcasting. At every class level, you gain a new caster level and spells per day as if you had advanced one level in a previous prepared divine spellcasting class which requires a prayerbook that you have levels in. This does not provide you with any other benefits of gaining a level in that class, including hit dice, skill points, class features, and so on.

Basic Projections (Su): Starting at 2nd level, your magical maps show you special geoccult secrets. Your magical maps prepared with your atlas above class feature now show all geoccult biomes in the area, as well as their borders. If your Mapmaking check has a result of at least 30, it also shows active terrain features, and if it has a result of at least 40, it also shows the location of the geoccult pole. Your projections do not penetrate illusions of any kind, however.

Cartographeme: At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, you learn a trade secret about gramaric mapmaking which allows you to extend your geoccult mastery. Every time you gain this class feature, you learn a special discovery you qualify for from Geoccultism. [note from me: these are the standardized discoveries, which are the same as those listed for the apogineer!]

Dark Knowledge: If you have the dark knowledge class feature, you gain an additional daily use of it at your 2nd, 6th, and 10th class levels. If you do not already have this feature, you gain no additional benefit.

Principles of Gramarie: You continue to advance your study of gramarie. At 2nd level, and again whenever indicated on the class table, you learn a new principle of gramarie that you qualify for. At 7th level you gain access to Doctorate-level principles, and can refer to yourself as a doctor of any discipline you attain that level of knowledge in.

Magical Maps (Su): You can use your facility with maps of all kinds to aid in your spellcasting as well! Beginning at 3rd level, whenever you cast a divine spell with an area effect, you can use one of your magical maps to project the spell. You must be inside of the mapped area, in which case you can spend a full-round action to place the area effect anywhere inside the mapped zone that you like, disregarding all range limitations. You cannot use this ability with any spell with a target instead of an area.

Mapitek (Su): There's magic in your maps, and starting at 3rd level you can get it out again, too! If you have a magical map in your atlas which shows one of your geoccult poles, you can rip the map out and burn it in order to provide additional power to your pole. This provides an immediate number of effective pounds of fuel to your pole equal to the Mapmaking check of the map, and if you like you can also immediately specify a logical decision for the pole, such as a new terrain feature or a weather condition. This can only be done at most once per day per pole.

Advanced Projections (Su): Beginning at 5th level, your projections improve; magical maps you make with your atlas above class feature now show active spell effects in the area, and they are constantly updated. They also show the location and colour of any kaleidomantic filters, as well as the boundaries of any heuristical circuits in the areas. Anyone controlling a circuit in the area can resist having their circuit mapped (as well as their filters, if the filter is tied into a circuit) by making an opposed Autohypnosis check against the Mapmaking check.

Left-Hand Rule (Ex): At 5th level, you learn an ancient secret used by mapmaking adventurers for generations to get out of mazes. You gain the natural cunning ability of a minotaur, which means that you can never become lost. You also gain immunity to maze (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/maze.htm) effects.

Dynamic Maps (Su): Beginning at 7th level, you can filch others' maps for yourself. By making a Mapmaking check of DC 60, you can add a single map of any size into your atlas with ten minutes of work, after which time it is considered for all intents and purposes a magical map which you yourself drew with your atlas above class feature. You can only add one additional magical map this way every day.

Marauder's Maps (Su): Also at 7th level, your maps become increasingly tricksy; magical maps in your atlas now show all people (labelled of course) inside of the mapped area. Strangely, no matter how dense the population is, anyone reading your map has no trouble discerning individual names on the map. Only given names and family names are shown, not truenames or nicknames or titles of any kind. People important to the plot are allowed a reflexive Hide check in order to avoid being mapped, although if they fail the check they are unaware that they were mapped at all.

Astral Projections (Su): At 9th level, your maps become strangely multifaceted, able to pierce even the most powerful of illusions and deceptions. Magical maps prepared with your atlas above class feature now apply their Mapmaking result against any imachinary illusions in the area; if the result beats the illusion's skill check, then the illusion is not only penetrated on the map, but the illusion is also described in detail, including the boundaries and sense targets. Your maps also can penetrate bizarchitecture created with a platinum geoccult pole; if the Mapmaking result exceeds the pole's skill check, then when you look at the map from a slightly different angle you can see the alternate biome layout instead.

Globetrotter (Ex): Stellar cartographers of the highest order know secret techniques to quickly return to anywhere they've charted. By ripping a magical map out of your atlas and burning it as a standard action, you can transport yourself and one vessel you are currently on (of no larger than Colossal+ size) along with anything and anyone else on board, to a specified appropriate location on the map.

Atlas Below: At 10th level, your secret knowledge of hidden places has grown beyond what any would consider possible, transcending even Planar boundaries. Whenever you draw a magical map with your atlas above class feature, you can choose to halve your Mapmaking result in order to have the map be drawn of the surrounding area on any coterminous Plane of your choice instead.

[Morcleon]

Hmm... I'm liking these changes. :smallcool:

Although I do wonder why you made the Extra Principle feat's limit based on Cha. It really doesn't make much sense. Shouldn't it be Int?

EDIT: I like the new class. Nice Star Trek reference too.

Although this currently cannot be entered until you have Gramarist 7/Archivist 1, as you need 2 GEOC principles (this is a huge hit on the archivist side, and most would deem it not worth it if focusing on casting). Once the new 100 principles come out, this could be reached as early as 7, with a minimum of Archivist 1 or Gramarist 2 for each class.

[Kellus]

Hmm... I'm liking these changes. :smallcool:

Although I do wonder why you made the Extra Principle feat's limit based on Cha. It really doesn't make much sense. Shouldn't it be Int?

Except that right now gramarists are INT AND ONLY INT FOREVER! This gives them one more stat to care about! :smallsmile:

EDIT: Yes, sorry, this is indeed intended for the new rules with extra 100-level principles; I'm actually trying to be a little MORE lenient with the prerequisites, not less — it just doesn't look that way just yet :smalltongue:

[Arcanist]

- Pure gramarists now get perks for staying in the base class, including a more powerful eldritch blast which gets extra tweaks from principles you know (for example, knowing alchemetric principles allows you to transmute materials with it, biollurgical principles let you heal with it and spread diseases...), and they get to select a second specialization at 11th level!

- EVERY discipline gets a new 100-level specialist principle which gives you slightly more useful stuff to do at low levels!

- Some principles have been moved down in level, opening some avenues up at lower tech-levels

- Eldrikinetic engines are... just better in, like, every way.

- Prestige classes now just get discoveries off of standardized lists by discipline, which makes things easier for the new dual-specialization prestige classes and the vanilla gramarist, who also gets them in his specialization as he levels up.

- Feats! In particular one that allows you to get bonus principles and which can be taken as many times as your Cha modifier; however, you can only have one bonus principle from your highest level of principles. Other feats are Collegiate feats, which represent attending specific institutions, and work somewhat like those Bloodline feats that give you various thematically related perks depending on how many of them you have.

- A new Geoccult PrC that I like so much I'm gonna spoil it in the next post as a show of good faith!

Keep on keeping on good people!

—Chris

WHY ARE YOU SUCH AN AWESOME PERSON!? :smallbiggrin:

[yugi24862]

One thing i was surprised was missing is there is no arcanodynamic transformer for converting kinetic energy into ebbs. I don't know if this was intentional, but if not it would be a good inclusion, especially if the silverout methods of power generation are unavaliable soon.

[Omnicrat]

One thing i was surprised was missing is there is no arcanodynamic transformer for converting kinetic energy into ebbs. I don't know if this was intentional, but if not it would be a good inclusion, especially if the silverout methods of power generation are unavaliable soon.

This was intentional, due to the existence of eldrikinetic engines. He might be changing it, though.

[popmicpop]

You posted early on in this thread that you were designing a principle focused on animating things, and I never saw any follow-up on that, unless you were talking about biolurgy. And that just seemed like a good idea that would help with making robots and AIs and things, or could at least tie in to giving EIs more senses.



Also would it be possible in some principles to cut prep times in half, or further, by cutting the amount of material you manipulate in half? ie. you could prepare half of a cubic foot of sun metal or something in only half of the prep time, or make half of a ballistics engine that only gives off 200 push, or 6 square feet of a kaliedomantic filter

[Omnicrat]

You can't make have of a combustion engine provide half the horsepower in half the time.

[popmicpop]

I figure that if you can take twice the time to build 2 engines that will deliver twice the push, why wouldn't you be able to build half the engine to deliver half the push. Its not really making half of an engine, its making a smaller engine

[Omnicrat]

Miniaturization tends to be harder than standard construction, not easier. An option to make a smaller engine with half the push in double the time might be more realistic.

[RFLS]

Miniaturization tends to be harder than standard construction, not easier. An option to make a smaller engine with half the push in double the time might be more realistic.

I'm not 100% sure that reality has any impact on this system. The real question is "what would make this system more fun for everyone concerned?"

[popmicpop]

Good point, Im not sure how much the fact that this is all made of magic will influence that, considering this is also science and industry. I think I would have to know what goes into the preparation of the engines, if its actually building a magical engine inside of the material then miniaturization would be more difficult, but if it's just an enchantment put on it then it should be able to just be cut in half. I still feel that you should be able to do this with alchemitry and filters and maybe some other things

[JBPuffin]

I'm astounded at how much STUFF is in this. Seriously, dude, this is quality.

I can't help but think of ways to try and abuse this stuff by having Epic Gramarists make seemingly mundane things and later characters abuse them.

Let's say some Gramarist builds a Gunblade and makes a factory to mass-produce them, spreading them to the Fighter community. An epic Wizard, or Artificer or other magic item crafter of epic levels, makes a Vorpal Gunblade of such high level it could kill a god if used properly.

Enter the first-level rogue who steals said weapon, and an epic level Lawful Evil fighter who has specialized in Gunblades, which are an exotic weapon.

Tyranny at its finest...especially if he has lower-key versions to give to his guards. Then he spreads his minions ot across the galaxy, purging the remnants of his formal organization...

It's like Star Wars, but in D&D. It also makes use of the idea that such a high-level artifact would make its owner ridiculously deadly. Of course, such a high-level fighter might make any saves required or even get it bound to him, as well as have some other magic items to boot...

[Kellus]

Did someone say FEATS?

But actually, I may or may not go with the Collegiate feats, depending if I have time before this thread expires. Hopefully this will elicit some interest, though?

Advanced Placement [Gramarie]
Tutoring and extra studying pays off; you've written an advanced placement exam to qualify you for a more challenging course load.
Benefit: Select a single principle that you would normally not qualify for based on specialization or class. You now qualify for that principle. You cannot select a principle of a higher grade than you have access to yet, and this does not remove prerequisites consisting of either specific principles or a number of prerequisite principles of a certain discipline.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time, choose a different principle that you would not normally qualify for.

Alternating Arcane Current [Gramarie]
I'll collapse your waveform, if you know what I mean
Prerequisite: Arcane Current, Complex Mathemagics, Int 19
Benefit: You can apply your Complex Mathemagics feat to your eldritch blast whenever you use it to power gramaric devices. You also gain two additional uses per day of the feat.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time, you gain two additional uses per day of Complex Mathemagics.

Arcane Current [Gramarie]
dQ/dt, where the Q stands for MAGIC
Prerequisite: Eldritch blast class feature
Benefit: Your eldritch blast can now be used to power gramaric devices. If released into a circuit or a device which has been set up to receive a puissant input, you can power it with 1 ebb for every five points of damage it would normally deal.
Special: You can take this feat up to five times. Each time, the efficiency increases by 1 such that it requires one less point of damage for each ebb of puissance generated.

Basic Mathemagics [Gramarie]
And who says math is useless in the real world?
Prerequisite: Int 13
Benefit: If you succesfully identify the purpose of a gramaric device, you can activate this feat in order to obtain a numerical analysis showing the possible range of values of the output (the RNG of the device's effects). You can use this feat a number of times per day equal to your Intelligence modifier.

Complex Mathemagics [Gramarie]
You've studied the mathemagical quantization of the imagination!
Prerequisite: Basic Mathemagics, Int 15
Benefit: Whenever you activate a gramaric device which rolls a random result, you can activate this ability as a swift action immediately afterwards in order to take the complex conjugate of the result, which causes the new result to be the maximum possible roll minus the original result. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Intelligence modifier.

Carbon Copy [Gramarie]
Theft is really just the ultimate expression of artistic appreciation; they should actually be honoured, not outraged
Prerequisite: YGGD 101, Forgery 4 ranks
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Forgery checks. In addition, whenever you create a mundane forgery, you can instantly prepare YGGD 101 as an immediate action to create a tiny semispace of no larger than 1ft. in any dimensions in order to envelop the original work if it is at hand. As soon as the object is removed from the semispace, the space collapses.
Special: Taking this feat means you cannot take Skill Focus (Forgery).

The Colour out of Space [Gramarie]
You've discovered a horrifying new colour! You call it pink.
Prerequisite: KALD 101, Spot 4 ranks
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Spot checks. In addition, you have discovered a strange new colour which doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the cosmos. Just looking at it causes lesser peoples' minds to snap like a twig. Whenever you succeed on the Spot check to create a kaleidomantic filter by 5 or more, you can infuse this bizarre new colour into the filter, which causes anyone looking at it to make a Will save (DC 13 + your Cha modifier at the time of construction) or be confused (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#confused) for the next round. This effect can be avoided by averting one's eyes, like a gaze attack. Saving successfully against this effect does not imply protection on following rounds. Aberrations are immune to this effect; this is a supernatural mind-affecting pattern effect.
Special: Taking this feat means you cannot take Skill Focus (Spot).

Creative Surgeon [Gramarie]
What do you call the person who graduates last in their medical class?
Prerequisite: BIOL 101, Heal 4 ranks
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Heal checks. In addition, whenever you successfully use the Heal skill to create a biollurgical chassis, you can trade out graft slots at a 1:1 ratio, giving you much more freedom to create twisted monstrosities.
Special: Taking this feat means you cannot take Skill Focus (Heal).

Desperate Improvisation [Gramarie]
We need to make this fit in a hole made for this, using nothing but that.
Prerequisite: Must be able to prepare Magisterial-grade gramaric principles, Ingenious Engineer, Wis 17
Benefit: You can either work frantically or ingeniously when you prepare a principle with a material requirement. If you work frantically, you can prepare the principle in half the time with twice the material. If you work ingeniously, you can prepare the principle in twice the time with half the material.

Diplomatic Immunity [Gramarie]
It's just been revoked!
Prerequisite: ALCH 101, Diplomacy 4 ranks
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Diplomacy checks. In addition, whenever you argue an alchemetric principle, you can include a clause which invalidates one of the obscure energy types: this includes things that technically aren't energy types, but are treated like them in sourcebooks, such as positive or negative energy, hellfire, desiccation, and so on. The material being affected gains immunity to this obscure energy in addition to the other effects of the principle.
Special: Taking this feat means you cannot take Skill Focus (Diplomacy).

Double-Blind Transformations [Gramarie]
The best way to figure out what kind of transformer it is is really just to poke it until it works
Prerequisite: ARCD 101, Use Magic Device 4 ranks
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Use Magic Device checks. In addition, you can use a Use Magic Device check to activate arcanodynamic transformers blindly. This is a full-round skill check which provides an amount of pseudo-puissance to the transformer equal to your Use Magic Device result. If this meets the limit on ebb transfer for the transformer, it converts the energy into its output form, which you can then target or control as if you were making the logical decision for the circuit. You can only successfully use this skill check type on any transformer once, and you cannot use it on a transformer you created.
Special: Taking this feat means you cannot take Skill Focus (Use Magic Device).

Equivalent Circuits [Gramarie]
Resistance is futile
Prerequisite: HEUR 101, Autohypnosis 4 ranks
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Autohypnosis checks. In addition, whenever you connect two gramaric devices with a heuristical circuit, you can choose for the connection to be a short circuit or an open circuit if you succeed on the Autohypnosis check by 5 or more. If you make a short circuit, the circuit can only connect those two devices; nothing else can be hooked up to it, and they cannot be part of any other circuit. However, the flow of puissance between the two devices is improved; any supply of puissance from one to the other is increased by 10%. If you choose to make an open circuit instead, the bubble is 5ft. in radius larger than it otherwise would be, but the flow of puissance through the circuit is dampened, decreasing all transfers of puissance inside the circuit by 10%.
Special: Taking this feat means you cannot take Skill Focus (Autohypnosis).

Extra Credit [Gramarie]
You took additional credits for either the love of learning, or because you're a keener.
Benefit: You learn a gramaric principle that you qualify for. Characters without any previous gramaric training can learn 101 principles, and can prepare them just like an actual gramarist. You cannot use this feat to learn an additional theory.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times, until you have a number of bonus principles equal to your Charisma modifier. However, you can only have a single bonus principle of your highest grade (Baccalaureate, Magisterial, or Doctorate).

Force of Mind [Gramarie]
Your engines work at the speed of thought!
Prerequisite: ELDK 101, Concentration 4 ranks
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Concentration checks. In addition, if you succeed on the Concentration check to build an eldrikinetic engine by more than 5, the engine can be powered by pure willpower. Psionic characters can transfer power points into the engine to activate it in place of normal fuel or puissance at a rate of 1 power point per ebb normally required. They remain limited in the number of power points they can spend in any given round on any given task, just like manifesting a power. Psionic characters must be either touching the engine, or be in telepathic range of it if they have telepathy. They are allowed to make logical decisions for the engine while powering it.
Special: Taking this feat means you cannot take Skill Focus (Concentration).

Imachinary Friends [Gramarie]
You're so good at imitating people, you don't even need the real thing!
Prerequisite: IMCH 101, Bluff 4 ranks
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Bluff checks. In addition, whenever you create an illusion which contains a component designed to imitate a specific individual, you can make a special Bluff check which works like a Disguise check in order to imitate that specific person. Anyone interacting with the illusion needs to see through the disguise as normal for disguises before they are allowed a chance for a fundamental disconnect (note that a sensory mismatch can still prompt a chance to reveal the illusion).
Special: Taking this feat means you cannot take Skill Focus (Bluff).

Ingenious Engineer [Gramarie]
When the chips are down, you figure out a way to put them back up such that they can support an optimal load. At least for a little while.
Prerequisite: Must be able to prepare gramaric principles, Wis 15
Benefit: You can prepare a principle in a single full-round action, but it only lasts for the next five rounds.

Mystic Huntsman [Gramarie]
The best defense against magic is CONSTANT VIGILANCE
Prerequisite: GEOC 101, Survival 4 ranks, Track
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Survival checks. In addition, you can use the Track feat to follow heuristical circuit connections (DC 15) or locate geoccult poles inside of biomes (DC 20). You can also sense the presence of imachinary illusions within a mile with a DC 40 result, although this doesn't tell you the exact for the illusion takes.
Special: Taking this feat means you cannot take Skill Focus (Survival).

Reverse Engineering [Gramarie]
Engineering is so much easier when someone else does the hard part for you.
Prerequisite: Must be able to prepare gramaric principles, Int 17
Benefit: By spending an hour examining a gramaric device, you can reverse engineer the blueprint for it by making a Knowledge (architecture and engineering) check which matches the original skill check made to create it.

[JBPuffin]

So I just did some math for a somewhat simplistic magic-powered gun; such a thing requires a wood input, a ballistic engine, some circuitry, and an orichalcum battery, which preferably you would make yourself. Assuming the orichalcum can be gotten form someone else, such a thing costs 3^6, or 729 gold; assuming the gun manufacturer has to make the orichalcum, or has, it's 3^22, or 31,381,059,609 gold, just for the gramarie itself.

With this being the case, you need some seriously high cash reserves to build ONE of these; mass production is impossible, especially the extra add-ons that could be used (the optional "elemental" guns).

Remember the gunblade idea, which come to think of it wouldn't need to be gramarie-based? Well, the "Stormtrooper guns" to go with that universe are in the possession of the creator only...probably as a counter to the gunblade, although that thief could always come back...

[RFLS]

Did someone say FEATS?

But actually, I may or may not go with the Collegiate feats, depending if I have time before this thread expires. Hopefully this will elicit some interest, though?

=D These are awesome. *uses*

[Arcanist]

But actually, I may or may not go with the Collegiate feats, depending if I have time before this thread expires. Hopefully this will elicit some interest, though?

You have plenty of time and space. Worst case scenario, another thread gets made with more space for it's content... Also, I recommend the tagline for the next thread be "We ran out of time and space so we made some more!"

[Kellus]

You have plenty of time and space. Worst case scenario, another thread gets made with more space for it's content... Also, I recommend the tagline for the next thread be "We ran out of time and space so we made some more!"

Heh, don't worry, I've got an awesome tagline planned :smallcool:

Anyway, I'm also going to put up the first dual-degree prestige class I've been tinkering with, to give people an idea what these will be like. I have one other of these completed at the moment, which I won't spoil because it's awesome (and also involves FTL travel)

[Kellus]

The Millwight


"If the inevitability of human oblivion worries you, I encourage you to ignore it. God knows that's what everyone else does."

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/116/3/8/clockwork_abomination_by_moonshadow01-d3eyxqq.jpg
Image credit Moonshadow01 (http://Moonshadow01.deviantart.com/) of deviantart.com.

Whenever a new usurper comes along keen on taking over the world or destroying civilization as we know it, there's one thing you can always count on: he's going to need a lot of men. Men willing to die for him, an army at his beck and call. And maybe this works for some of them, the more charismatic or popular; but for the rest, there's a real shortage of skilled warriors willing to up and die for a cause that's, frankly, pretty horrible. That's why undead armies have become so popular as of late, and wherever there's someone looking for a product, you can bet there's someone willing to deliver it. The millwight trade is a new development made possible thanks to gramarie. Millwights are skilled tradesmen who specialize in the custom manufacture and mass dissemination of undead. No backtalk, no possible fomenting rebellion, just undying obedience and unwavering loyalty. A millwight must be learned in both the gramarie of the flesh and the mind, in order to create a product that is truly... to DIE for.

Requirements: To become a millwight you must meet all of the following requirements.
Feats: Tomb-Tainted Soul
Gramarie: BIOY 228 and at least one HEUR principle
Skills: Autohypnosis 8 ranks, Heal 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 10 ranks
Special: Eldritch blast class feature
Specialization: Must be specialized in either Biollurgy or Heuristicism.

Hit Die: d6
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

Class Skills: A millwight's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

The Millwight
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|
Principles

1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|Assembly-line undead, double major, trade secret|
+0

2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3|Deathnet, eldritch blast +1d6|
+1

3rd|+1|+3|+1|+3|Factory-grade undead|
+2

4th|+2|+4|+1|+4|Corpsecrafter, trade secret|
+3

5th|+2|+4|+1|+4|Eldritch blast +2d6, outsourced undead|
+3

6th|+3|+5|+2|+5|Deadly precision, kill switch|
+4

7th|+3|+5|+2|+5|AutoCAD undead, trade secret|
+5

8th|+4|+6|+2|+6|Eldritch blast +3d6, hostile takeover|
+6

9th|+4|+6|+3|+6|Corpsecrafter, industrial-strength undead|
+6

10th|+5|+7|+3|+7|Authorize abominations, trade secret|
+7

[/table]

All of the following are class features of the millwight.

Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: As a millwight, you get to use bad-ass scythes. Otherwise, you gain no additional weapon or armour proficiencies.

Assembly-Line Undead (Ex): The trade of the millwight is designing and manufacturing the undead. As a millwight, you can bring the dead back to life with various dies. Dies are actual objects that you need to carve out of bone. Carving a die takes a week, and it needs to be charged with puissance in order to use. Puissance can be stored in a die, but it can only be removed when discharged into a corpse upon activation.

To create an undead, you must have access to a corpse. The fresher the body, the easier it is to bring back. You make a Heal check as a full-round action against a DC of the Hit Dice of the creature + 5 for every year back they died (to a maximum of +50). Success indicates that the creature can be reanimated by applying a die. A die is applied immediately following the initial analysis over the course of five minutes, after which point the creature becomes a biollurgical chassis with the Undead type, as if with BIOY 228. Unlike most creations, it retains its original physical ability scores, and potentially other components of its makeup based on the die applied. Otherwise, the undead is treated exactly like a regular biollurgical chassis.

At 1st level, you can use the boney terror and shambling rot dies, but as you level up you gain additional dies to use in your manufacturing. These dies require 5 ebbs of puissance to activate.

Boney Terror: The boney terror die applies the skeleton (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/skeleton.htm) template to the subject, if it qualifies.
Shambling Rot: The shambling rot die applies the zombie (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm) template to the subject, if it qualifies.

Double Major: Millwights are experts in two disparate disciplines of gramarie. As an millwight, you can learn specialist principles from both Biollurgy and Heuristicism. However, this focus comes at a price. You give up ever learning any more principles beyond the Baccalaureate level from other disciplines in exchange for this double specialization. You do not, however, lose principles from other fields that you already know. If you run out of principles to learn, you can select one additional discipline to begin learning advanced principles from.

Trade Secret: Millwights are a close-knit brotherhood, with many trade secrets to share. At 1st level, and every three levels thereafter, you learn a special discovery related to either Biollurgy or Heuristicism.

Deathnet (Ex): Manufacturing undead is useless if you can't control them. Any undead which you create using a die can be slaved to a heuristical circuit immediately as if with the Circuited biollurgical feature, even if you don't know BIOY 273. These undead can also be granted the Sentience feature if you know BIOY 273, in which case the circuited decisions override their normal choices (no save). You can move control of the undead to a different circuit as a logical decision within the circuit. Sentient undead that you create can (if you so choose) make logical decisions for the circuit they are a part of.

Eldritch Blast: At 2nd level, and every three levels thereafter, your eldritch blast advances in damage by 1d6. More interestingly, you learn a new application for it, allowing you to deal negative energy damage with it at your option.

Principles of Gramarie: You continue to advance your study of gramarie. At 2nd level, and again whenever indicated on the class table, you learn a new principle of gramarie that you qualify for. At 7th level you gain access to Doctorate-level principles, and can refer to yourself as a doctor of any discipline you attain that level of knowledge in.

Factory-Grade Undead (Ex): At 3rd level you learn special assembly-line techniques to improve the average quality of your relivened products. You design the frightening stench die and the horrifying tongue die. These dies require 10 ebbs of puissance to activate.

Frightening Odour: The frightening stench die does pretty much what it sounds like; the subject is fever contaminated with Ghoul Fever (Cha-based DC), and always has the Stench Gland graft for free (also Cha-based). This graft does not count against the normal limit for the chassis.
Horrifying Tongue: The horrifying tongue die grants the subject a terrible paralyzing tongue attack, among other dread gifts. They gain the skeleton (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/skeleton.htm) template, as well as their special tongue ability. This is a touch attack with a Dex-based DC. Failure means the target becomes paralyzed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#paralyzed) for 1d4 minutes. The subject of the die also gains the improved grab (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#improvedGrab) ability.

Corpsecrafter: At 4th level, you gain the Corpsecrafter feat, and you can apply its benefits to any undead you create using a millwight die. Any feat you gain which has Corpsecrafter as a prerequisite can also be applied to these undead. At 9th level, you learn a single feat you qualify for with Corpsecrafter as a prerequisite.

Outsourced Undead (Ex): At 5th level you outsource the design of your next die to the Cloud Giants, so I guess you only have yourself to blame when it ends up as vapourware. You obtain the knowledge of the darkest knight die and the grim shadow die. These dies require 20 ebbs of puissance to activate.

Darkest Knight: The darkest knight die applies the Incorporeal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#incorporealSubtype) subtype to the subject. In addition, it gains an incorporeal touch attack which deals 1d6 Constitution damage with a Foritude save (Cha-based). The subject also panics nearby animals, and is utterly powerless in sunlight.
Grim Shadow: The grim shadow die is a lower-risk lower-reward version of the darkest knight die; it still applies the Incorporeal subtype to the subject, but its touch attack deals 1d6 points of Strength damage instead. It does not have the same drawbacks, though.

Deadly Precision (Ex): Beginning at 6th level, you have intricate knowledge of how undead are put together. Whenever you use your eldritch blast on an undead creature, the damage is maximized.

Kill Switch (Ex): By 6th level, you've learned not to take chances with the walking dead. Whenever you manufacture an undead, you can program it with a password which, when heard in the future, will cause the undead to be instantly destroyed.

AutoCAD Undead (Ex): That's right, Conjuration Aided Design; at 7th level you design the pharoah's curse die and the wight blight die. These dies require 40 ebbs of puissance to activate.

Pharaoh's Curse: The pharaoh's curse die applies the zombie (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm) template to the subject, but without the Single Actions Only special quality. In addition, the subject spreads mummy rot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#mummyRot) with its natural attacks (Str-based DC).
Wight Blight: The wight blight die is really awesome, and basically turns the subject into a silent assassin. They gain a +8 racial bonus on Move Silently checks, and their natural attacks deal one negative level with each strike (Cha-based DC to remove). The subject gains 5 temporary hit points for every negative level applied. These undead are the most popular with contracting villains, hence the name of the trade.

Hostile Takeover (Ex): At 8th level, you learn a ruthless business practice which allows you to steal control of the undead. As a full-round action, you can make a touch attack using a die against any Undead creature you didn't create. If successful, the target must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your class level + your Cha modifier) or be instantly destroyed and reanimated with the effects of your die as if you had used it on its corpse. If the subject is already under the effect of a die, the previous die's boons are lost when it is relivened. If an undead creature saves against this effect, they're immune to it for 24 hours.

Industrial-Strength Undead (Ex): These are the real deal, the most potent of terrors. At 9th level you learn to design the crawling doom, screaming pain and unending torment dies. They are exactly as pleasant as they sound. These dies require 80 ebbs to activate. All undead manufactured with these dies sustain a -4 penalty to attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks when in natural daylight. The area around them is also treated as desecrated (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/desecrate.htm) like a shrine of evil power, to radius of 20ft.

Crawling Doom: The crawling doom die channels the insipid disgust of all the things that crawl in the groun. The subject increases two size categoties and gains the Swallow Whole (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#swallowWhole) ability, which it can use against anything smaller than it. It deals half its Hit Dice in acid damage every round to swallowed creatures, as well as a single negative level every round (Cha-based DC to remove). Its stomach can take 1/4 of its total hit points in slashing or piercing damage before it releases the victim, and can hold 2 creatures of one size category smaller, 8 creatures of two size categories smaller, and so on. The subject of the die also gains the Improved Grab (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#improvedGrab) ability. Finally, it gains a burrow speed of twice its land speed, if it did not already have one.
Screaming Pain: The screaming pain die channels the fury and thunder of all winged monstrosities. It gains a fly speed of three times its base speed with good maneuverability, if it doesn't already have a better fly speed. As a standard action, or at the end of a diving charge, it can deliver a melee attack that carries a targeted (one item or creature only) mage's disjunction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesDisjunction.htm) effect.
Unending Torment: The unending torment die calls upon the worst spirits of the mortal races to infuse the subject with cruel intent. The subject can turn invisible at will as a free action. It also gains a paralyzing gaze (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#gazeAttacks) attack which paralyzes victims for 1d8 rounds (Cha save to negate). Its base land speed is doubled.

Authorize Abominations (Ex): Every tradesman has a masterpiece to work towards, and this is yours. At 10th level you learn to create a true abomination that would make your master maker proud. You can make a single die that you already know the mold for with a month of effort. This die confers, in addition to its normal effects, all Abomination (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm) traits except for summon creature, spell-like abilities, and unique abilities. All values given as a range, such as fast healing, spell resistance, or natural armour, take a value of 1/2 an Autohypnosis check made during the creation of the die. This die requires 1,000 stored ebbs of puissance to activate. If it is destroyed, you can craft a new one over the course of another month.

[Omnicrat]

Kellus, what is it with you and the giant pictures? I have to scroll just to be able to read a single line of text.

[Kellus]

Kellus, what is it with you and the giant pictures? I have to scroll just to be able to read a single line of text.

Sorry, I have my screen so zoomed out I don't even notice these things. Lemme spoiler that bad boy for you

[Arcanist]

Heh, don't worry, I've got an awesome tagline planned :smallcool:

Anyway, I'm also going to put up the first dual-degree prestige class I've been tinkering with, to give people an idea what these will be like. I have one other of these completed at the moment, which I won't spoil because it's awesome (and also involves FTL travel)

Eager to see them! But like I said, don't worry about going into thread 2, because I can assure you that this project will go to at a minimum of 3 threads :smalltongue:

Still eager to be able to use Parsecs in my Gramarie game as a unit of distance in my custom game (Coming to a dead world near you!)


*snip*

... Did you just make Marketing Undead an actually feasible industry? :smallconfused: Just curious, but do you ever intend to make a Geoccultism type Prestige class that allows them to actually move their Biomes like creating a Deadsnow in a city and just let nature take it's course? :smalltongue:

[Volthawk]

Heh, don't worry, I've got an awesome tagline planned :smallcool:

Anyway, I'm also going to put up the first dual-degree prestige class I've been tinkering with, to give people an idea what these will be like. I have one other of these completed at the moment, which I won't spoil because it's awesome (and also involves FTL travel)

Hm. I'll be interested to see what a biollurgy/geoccultism hybrid will look like.

[RFLS]

Hm. I'll be interested to see what a biollurgy/geoccultism hybrid will look like.

The ground will eat your soul.

[Necroticplague]

The ground will eat your soul.

Geoocultism does that on its own :smallamused:.

[popmicpop]

Geoocultism does that on its own :smallamused:.

But this one will make a conscious decision too

[Alokue]

One thing i was surprised was missing is there is no arcanodynamic transformer for converting kinetic energy into ebbs. I don't know if this was intentional, but if not it would be a good inclusion, especially if the silverout methods of power generation are unavaliable soon.

Just build a regular real life generator into electricity and then silver that into ebbs. :D

[Draken]

But this one will make a conscious decision too

That just takes heuristicism, no PrCs involved.

[Necroticplague]

That just takes heuristicism, no PrCs involved.

Not even that. Deadsnow zombies by default are conrolled from the pole. So you could command them simply by standing their with your hand on the pole, guiding them, as long as you can keep beating your own Survival checks.

[Alokue]

Sorry, I have my screen so zoomed out I don't even notice these things. Lemme spoiler that bad boy for you

Kellus I love the pictures don't stop doing them. Especially the necromancer one. RFLS and I were both pretty stoked about that one.

[Mithril Leaf]

Kellus, could you make the Orange Filter a viable option for containing gases pretty please? As it is, you can't do anything fun with it. If you remove the strong wind clause you get to make a fusion reactor!

EDIT: We also need a plasma filter.

[LordChaos13]

...I now want to play a Millwright.
Seriously why are you so awesome Kellus? Tell me so I can steal your secrets and make my own epic homebrew of awesomesauce

[Kellus]

Kellus, could you make the Orange Filter a viable option for containing gases pretty please? As it is, you can't do anything fun with it. If you remove the strong wind clause you get to make a fusion reactor!

EDIT: We also need a plasma filter.

Can't promise a plasma filter, but part of the revisions to Kaleidomantics turn the speed constraint on winds for Orange filters into a volumetric flow constraint instead. So you can either have small amounts of wind moving very fast, or huge gusts moving reasonably slowly. The cool part is that you can control it to a large degree depending on how you shape the area exposed to the strongest winds; you'll now be rewarded for being creative and making your filter streamlined.

Thank you for the kind words, cool people!. :smallsmile:

[Mithril Leaf]

Another thought about the upcoming revision. It might be worth considering to allow an alchemist to transmute lesser materials into raw metals for later usage. That way you aren't reliant on wall of iron to supply your basis for everything.

EDIT: Might want to set a minimum size for the heat effect of phlogiston, as is a single gram of it heats up an area of 5 square feet to 1000 degrees.

EDIT 2: I mean you can always planar bind a lilitu and a dao to have a wall of stone which is stone metamorphosis'd into a wall of taconite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taconite) which you then pass near some phlogiston that is set to precisely 1600 degrees centigrade which melts the iron by not the quartz, which then flows down to a mold of 1 foot cubes which pass into the ares of an ice engine thus instantly cooling them. But that's a bit overly complicated to get raw iron.

[Quester]

I like the new prestige classes and both flavorful and useful.

I'm really excited to see what you have in store for eldrikinetics for the new thread.

[Necroticplague]

Question: are die multi-use, or are you going to have to make a new one for each undead?

[Arcanist]

Question: are die multi-use, or are you going to have to make a new one for each undead?

I figured that you implant the die inside of the undead creature you want to make and infuse it with the amount of ebbs you want the die to create. I expect a large number of the undead created to be Undead, my goodness this prestige class is fantastic for a Gramarist as it makes minionmancy for them much more appealing since you can effectively double your output by Specializing in BIOY :smallamused:

EDIT:
Assembly-Line Undead (Ex): The trade of the millwight is designing and manufacturing the undead. As a millwight, you can bring the dead back to life with various dies. Dies are actual objects that you need to carve out of bone. Carving a die takes a week, and it needs to be charged with puissance in order to use. Puissance can be stored in a die, but it can only be removed when discharged into a corpse upon activation.

If we assume the last line of text to dictate that the ebbs are discharged into the undead ala Frankenstein then yes, dies are reusable. I wonder if you can only discharge the ebbs from a die for the sake of creating an undead? :smallamused: Did I really just say that after reading that text? :smallconfused:

EDIT: I edited this after Omnicrat posted his comment... I figured that much was fairly obvious :smalltongue:

[Omnicrat]

Die are pretty clearly re-usable.

edit: I posted this before Arcanist edited in his thing.

[mystic1110]

maybe because I'm not an engineer but can someone please give me examples how to use to heuristics or pretty much any of the mechanics of this class. It seems really cool - I'm just having trouble figuring out what to do with a filter that filters heat or a peice of metal that overlays natural elements to make it more deserty?

[Arcanist]

maybe because I'm not an engineer but can someone please give me examples how to use to heuristics or pretty much any of the mechanics of this class. It seems really cool - I'm just having trouble figuring out what to do with a filter that filters heat or a peice of metal that overlays natural elements to make it more deserty?

The great thing about Gramarie is that you don't need to be an Engineer to know how everything works. Just read the Principles and know the basic mechanics of the system. Generally it takes very little designing since all you need to do is have the principles known and your character will do the rest (as with my T.A.R.D.I.S., Micro Minigun, and Cybermen).

Heuristics can be used to send commands, redirect ebbs and, my recently developed favorite, create Artificial intelligences.

I'm confused by your construction question: I believe you are asking how to make materials more durable. Also, you can use a heat filter to provide more comfort for a forgemaster if you'd like or use it to make more heat-resistant objects by giving it a layer of heat resistance or for satellites orbiting stars in space. I'm still trying to think of a method to make a heat immune Ice Transformer that can be launched into the Sun and use it as a furnace for my T.A.R.D.I.S. to make a nice Eye of Harmony :smallwink:

[Mithril Leaf]

maybe because I'm not an engineer but can someone please give me examples how to use to heuristics or pretty much any of the mechanics of this class. It seems really cool - I'm just having trouble figuring out what to do with a filter that filters heat or a peice of metal that overlays natural elements to make it more deserty?

Well, here's an example of a tool you can make with phlogiston and some filters.

Alright, so you have a small rod of phlogiston, enhanced by the contractor ability so that it heats up to 2000 degrees. You encase this rod in a long heat filter that extends beyond the rod itself, which is attached to a handle. You also have a stone and metal filter that hold the rod in place. On a seperate cap, you have a heat filter that you can move over the rod's handle. Here's a diagram made in paint:
The tool (http://i.imgur.com/Wd60RiI.png)
Basically, it's a rod of perpetual 2000 degree heat, that you can turn on or off as desired. It can be as small or wide as needed. An excellent utility item for anyone working with metal.


I'm confused by your construction question: I believe you are asking how to make materials more durable. Also, you can use a heat filter to provide more comfort for a forgemaster if you'd like or use it to make more heat-resistant objects by giving it a layer of heat resistance or for satellites orbiting stars in space. I'm still trying to think of a method to make a heat immune Ice Transformer that can be launched into the Sun and use it as a furnace for my T.A.R.D.I.S. to make a nice Eye of Harmony :smallwink:

Pump up the phase change temperature of water and have the ice inside it's own bubble of influence, or have a pair of them aimed at each other.

[Volthawk]

maybe because I'm not an engineer but can someone please give me examples how to use to heuristics or pretty much any of the mechanics of this class. It seems really cool - I'm just having trouble figuring out what to do with a filter that filters heat or a peice of metal that overlays natural elements to make it more deserty?

Well, the thing with geoccultism is that it lays frameworks down that you have to buid on - a grasslands biome may be perfect livestock farming, with plenty of grass for feeding and streams for water (perhaps linked to a freshwater biome that provides the source of the water and perhaps has rice paddies that feed the farmers) but you (or your people, most likely) still need to bring in the animals and look after them. Geoccultism basically provides an ideal environment - you then have to take advantage of it.

EDIT: And of course. Doctorate-level geoccultism brings in supernatural features, making biomes useful for mages and other gramarists.

[popmicpop]

I'm still trying to think of a method to make a heat immune Ice Transformer that can be launched into the Sun and use it as a furnace for my T.A.R.D.I.S. to make a nice Eye of Harmony :smallwink:

I mentioned earlier that it would be possible to make a heat transformer that is immune to melting by covering it in red filters. Since it draws heat from a bubble around it, if you put the filter right on its surfaces it should still be able to take heat from the air around it. Unless, of coarse, I'm not imagining the mechanics correctly and it takes the energy by moving the surrounding air through it, it which case you would just have to work on the ice for a long time with alchemetry.

[Kellus]

The Asternomist


"And yet it moves."

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/031/f/2/the_stargazer_by_xetobyte-d4o7bht.jpg
Image credit xetobyte (http://xetobyte.deviantart.com/) of deviantart.com.

The stars have fascinated mortalkind since before we could even communicate our fascination with them. They have traced their intricate and arcane paths across the night sky, oblivious to all of our troubles, and yet perfectly precise in their machinations, for as long as the universe has existed. As modern knowledge of gramarie has grown, a new breed of astronomy has as well, a field devoted to understanding and even reaching out and touching these lights that move and move and move. The asternomist is one of these dreamers, a specialized gramarist trained in both otherworldly secrets and also all manner of motion, a brilliant thinker who yearns to explore these strange and distant stars. Their study begins with the most basic of extradimensional theories, and extends into the fascinatingly disturbing realm of truenames. Once they have mastered the truenames of the ineffable stars, they will find they have mastered themselves as well.

Requirements: To become an asternomist you must meet all of the following requirements.
Gramarie: Able to prepare at least one principle from both ELDK and YGGD
Skills: Concentration 8 ranks, Forgery 8 ranks, Knowledge (the Planes) 10 ranks, Truespeak 8 ranks
Specialization: Must be specialized in either Eldrikinetics or Yggdratecture.
Truenaming: Must be able to speak 1st level utterances

Hit Die: d6
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

Class Skills: An asternomist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Truespeak (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

The Asternomist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Principles|
Truenaming

1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Double major, the naming of lights|
+0|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Yggdratectural engines|
+1|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3|Momentous flux|
+2|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|The naming of lights|
+3|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Warp speed|
+3|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Space-filling curve|
+4|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|The naming of lights|
+5|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|Cosmological constant |
+6|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|Spaces between spaces|
+6|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Helmsman, the naming of lights|
+7|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

[/table]

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the asternomist.

Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: As an asternomist, you gain no additional weapon or armour proficiencies.

Double Major (Ex): Asternomists are experts in two disparate disciplines of gramarie. As an asternomist, you can learn specialist principles from both Eldrikinetics and Yggdratecture. However, this focus comes at a price. You give up ever learning any more principles beyond the Baccalaureate level from other disciplines in exchange for this double specialization. You do not, however, lose principles from other fields that you already know. If you run out of principles to learn, you can select one additional discipline to begin learning advanced principles from.

The Naming of Lights: The names of the stars are revealed to you one by one, along with their otherworldly secrets. At 1st level, and every three levels thereafter, you learn a special discovery related to either Eldrikinetics or Yggdratecture.

Truenaming: You continue to advance your knowledge of truespeak, including utterances, recitations, and whatever else your previous class would have advanced depending on the fix you're using. If you're using mine, this includes advancing your absolute limit by 3 + your Intelligence modifier ever level.

Yggdratectural Engines (Ex): As the stars continue to move inexorably along their paths, so too do your vessels move in perfect contrast to apparent natural law. Your knowledge of moving reality now manifests in that your engines can apply their movement from inside an yggdratectural space. There are a few caveats to this: you can only go one portal deep at first. You also must have your portal fixed to a reference point relative to the vessel, object, or creature that you want to move. And finally, at first, the engine can only power a single vessel, even if the space has portals to multiple ships. The entire Push output of the engine is applied to the vessel it's affixed to, essentially moving the reference frame so that instead of the engine moving, the portal moves, carrying whatever it is tethered to with it.

Principles of Gramarie: You continue to advance your study of gramarie. At 2nd level, and again whenever indicated on the class table, you learn a new principle of gramarie that you qualify for. At 7th level you gain access to Doctorate-level principles, and can refer to yourself as a doctor of any discipline you attain that level of knowledge in.

Momentous Flux (Ex): You now understand how to set up an additional kind of flux. Beginning at 3rd level, whenever you prepare YGGD 212, you can choose to prepare a momentous flux instead. This creates a field which absorbs or imparts momentum to anything that passes through it, as a logical decision. Certain objects or creatures can be made exempt to the effect, also as logical decisions, either at the time of entry or ahead of time. By default the flux is set to absorb all momentum inside of it, essentially reducing the speed of everything which enters it to 0. Living creatures and intelligent items are allowed an opposed Will save (DC 5 + 3 for every YGGD or ELDK principle you know) to avoid this effects; otherwise they are immediately stopped when entering the field, and slowed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/slow.htm) as long as they remain inside. Momentum which is collected is stored as Push, at 50% efficiency (half the Push is retained which is lost), based on the speed and size of the dampened target. A single flux can store a number of points of Push equal to the Forgery check made to create it. This Push remains indefinately, until it is spent as a logical decision; the decision can be either to impart the Push immediately to something in the field, or to impart it to a moving object specifically exempt to the field as it passes through. When a field is full to capacity, it no longer dampens movement. Push can also be drawn from the field and moved through a circuit to another momentous flux where it can be spent, although every intervening circuit it moves through consumes 1 point of Push.

If you do not yet know YGGD 212, you don't gain any benefit from this class feature until you learn it.

Warp Speed (Ex): At 5th level, you can now build a special kind of eldrikinetic engine, a warp engine. This is added to the list of engines you know as follows:

Warp: A warp engine uses salt as a fuel source, and is made out of glass. It must be maintained at a temperature of at least 605 degrees Centigrade at all times, or it ceases to function. By itself this engine generates up to 100 points of Push per round in exchange for 1 pound of salt, in any direction, even without any outside reference or gravity. More importantly however, if multiple warp engines are set up in parallel, the Push they generate (as well as the salt cost for each of them) increases by a factor of 10 for every additional engine (to a maximum of 12 engines at once; some asternomists have theorized about a potential 'warp 13', but these stories are generally dismissed as ridiculous, since that would cause evolution to go backwards or something). The speed generated from the Push can exceed c (a speed of 5.90E9 ft.), but the object immediately drops below light speed as soon as the engines stop firing. No matter how fast you go from the outside, on board the vessel travelling, things proceed at their normal speed. Essentially, a 'warp bubble' extends around the vessel, wherein relativistic effects do not occur (including the distortions of time normally associated with FTL travel). Note that once a vessel is essentially in a vacuum, such as outer space, it will continue to travel at its current speed every round until it is manually decelerated.

Speaking of which, the engines also have a special dampening capacity, which can be activated as a logical decision on board the vessel in order to slow the ship down at a rate of 10% of c every round. This generates enormous amounts of waste heat, which are luckily dumped into a chaos dimension accessed inside the engines. A warp engine can also be activated with a single ebb of puissance, although this price also multiplies by 10 with each parallel engine, to a maximum of 12.

Every warp engine is tied to a single star, from which it siphons much of its power through extradimensional space. To build a warp engine, you must first research and discover the truename of the star you wish to tether it to. This counts as researching a truename, with a DC of 35 + 3 for each previous warp engine you've built. Activating the engine requires speaking its star's truename as a move action, with the same DC for this Truespeak check as for its research. If you have multiple warp engines hooked up in parallel, you can activate each of them with the same move action. You can activate yggdratectural warp engines by touching the reference point to their portal.

Space-Filling Curve (Ex): At 6th level, you learn to create a special curve which can fill the entire cosmos with a single dimension. This discovery allows you to connect multiple yggdratectural spaces in series for the purposes of your yggdratectural engines. You can now go two semi-spaces deep, although as many as you like laterally. So, for example, a ship could be hooked up to an engine in space A, and space A has connections to spaces B, C, and D, each of which also have engines which can be used to propel the original ship.

Cosmological Constant (Ex): At 8th level, you learn a special numerical constant which allows you to manipulate the expansion of space. By applying this mathematical secret, you can hasten travel times for all trips made using engines you build which you personally are a part of, by a factor of up to your Cha modifier.

Spaces Between Spaces (Ex): At 9th level, a truth of the cosmos reveals itself to you, which allows you to simultaneously reach multiple places at once, and to move momentum between them. You can now fix two reference points for a single space containing an yggdratectural engine. This means that the space can be connected to two vessels, creatures, or objects at the same time. Push generated by the engine can be applied to either reference point, divided up as a logical decision from the engine. Momentum of one of the objects can also be bled off through the engine and applied to the other object, at a rate equal to 50% of the maximum Push output of the engines acting as go-betweens, and subject to the travel limitations of those engines. If there are multiple engine spaces hooked up as per the space-filling curve class feature, all of the subordinate engines inside laterally connected spaces can be used for this transfer, but they must follow the lead of the primary engines in the direction of transfer of momentum. Their efficiency for this is only 25%. Laterally connected spaces like this cannot be hooked up to multiple primary engine spaces, even with this class feature.

Helmsman (Ex): You are so in tune with the cosmos that your awareness is everywhere at once. This perfect understanding allows you to make course corrections when controlling any engine you've built, during a single application of Push, no matter how fast you're going. Essentially, this lets you make nigh-infinite logical decisions about steering and directing the vessel inside of a single round, no matter how much distance is covered during that round.

[Kellus]

Hi all, it's 34 Centigrade here and I want to lie down and die, so yeah. Here's the PrC I mentioned yesterday I think? This is the last PrC for a while, everything else I have planned is either a base class or new principles or modifications to existing principles. SO I guess you'll see some of that tomorrow maybe?

Bleargh

[Amechra]

You know... 1 ebb increasing exponentially is still one ebb.

But, let's see: with 12 Warp Engines, you can get to 10^13 push.

That lets you move an Enormous object at 3E11 feet per round (5E10 per second).

That is 50 times the speed of light right there.

So yeah, I'd go with 12 pounds of salt per round instead of ebb costs.

If you get a caster friend to cast Wall of Salt, you get 40452 lbs of salt from a CL 12 spell

That is 3371 rounds of continuous operation, giving you around 192 billion miles of travel. In around 56 hours.

Which is plenty of time to produce another CL 12 Wall of Salt...

[Kellus]

You know... 1 ebb increasing exponentially is still one ebb.

Sorry for being unclear; the intention was that it follows the same progression as the salt costs, increasing by a factor of 10 every time. So 1 engine is 10^0 ebbs per round, and 12 engines are 10^11 ebbs per round each. I will make this more clear :smallcool:


But, let's see: with 12 Warp Engines, you can get to 10^13 push.

That lets you move an Enormous object at 3E11 feet per round (5E10 per second).

That is 50 times the speed of light right there.

So yeah, I'd go with 12 pounds of salt per round instead of ebb costs.

It's not 12 pounds of salt per round, it's 12*(10^11) pounds of salt to run 12 engines simultaneously for one round.


More importantly however, if multiple warp engines are set up in parallel, the Push they generate (as well as the salt cost for each of them) increases by a factor of 10 for every additional engine (to a maximum of 12 engines at once)

EDIT: But as a consolation, one of the new low-level (100-grade) transmutations alchemetry will be able to create will be salt, which makes it totally possible to set up a pocket demiplane to carry on-board that acts as a salt-producing power-plant.

[Arcanist]

The Asternomist


"And yet it moves."

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/031/f/2/the_stargazer_by_xetobyte-d4o7bht.jpg
Image credit xetobyte (http://xetobyte.deviantart.com/) of deviantart.com.

The stars have fascinated mortalkind since before we could even communicate our fascination with them. They have traced their intricate and arcane paths across the night sky, oblivious to all of our troubles, and yet perfectly precise in their machinations, for as long as the universe has existed. As modern knowledge of gramarie has grown, a new breed of astronomy has as well, a field devoted to understanding and even reaching out and touching these lights that move and move and move. The asternomist is one of these dreamers, a specialized gramarist trained in both otherworldly secrets and also all manner of motion, a brilliant thinker who yearns to explore these strange and distant stars. Their study begins with the most basic of extradimensional theories, and extends into the fascinatingly disturbing realm of truenames. Once they have mastered the truenames of the ineffable stars, they will find they have mastered themselves as well.

Requirements: To become an asternomist you must meet all of the following requirements.
Gramarie: Able to prepare at least one principle from both ELDK and YGGD
Skills: Concentration 8 ranks, Forgery 8 ranks, Knowledge (the Planes) 10 ranks, Truespeak 8 ranks
Specialization: Must be specialized in either Eldrikinetics or Yggdratecture.
Truenaming: Must be able to speak 1st level utterances

Hit Die: d6
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

Class Skills: An asternomist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Truespeak (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

The Asternomist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Principles|
Truenaming

1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Double major, the naming of lights|
+0|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Yggdratectural engines|
+1|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3|Momentous flux|
+2|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|The naming of lights|
+3|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Warp speed|
+3|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Space-filling curve|
+4|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|The naming of lights|
+5|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|Cosmological constant |
+6|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|Spaces between spaces|
+6|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Helmsman, the naming of lights|
+7|
+1 level of existing truenaming class

[/table]

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the asternomist.

Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: As an asternomist, you gain no additional weapon or armour proficiencies.

Double Major (Ex): Asternomists are experts in two disparate disciplines of gramarie. As an asternomist, you can learn specialist principles from both Eldrikinetics and Yggdratecture. However, this focus comes at a price. You give up ever learning any more principles beyond the Baccalaureate level from other disciplines in exchange for this double specialization. You do not, however, lose principles from other fields that you already know. If you run out of principles to learn, you can select one additional discipline to begin learning advanced principles from.

The Naming of Lights: The names of the stars are revealed to you one by one, along with their otherworldly secrets. At 1st level, and every three levels thereafter, you learn a special discovery related to either Eldrikinetics or Yggdratecture.

Truenaming: You continue to advance your knowledge of truespeak, including utterances, recitations, and whatever else your previous class would have advanced depending on the fix you're using. If you're using mine, this includes advancing your absolute limit by 3 + your Intelligence modifier ever level.

Yggdratectural Engines (Ex): As the stars continue to move inexorably along their paths, so too do your vessels move in perfect contrast to apparent natural law. Your knowledge of moving reality now manifests in that your engines can apply their movement from inside an yggdratectural space. There are a few caveats to this: you can only go one portal deep at first. You also must have your portal fixed to a reference point relative to the vessel, object, or creature that you want to move. And finally, at first, the engine can only power a single vessel, even if the space has portals to multiple ships. The entire Push output of the engine is applied to the vessel it's affixed to, essentially moving the reference frame so that instead of the engine moving, the portal moves, carrying whatever it is tethered to with it.

Principles of Gramarie: You continue to advance your study of gramarie. At 2nd level, and again whenever indicated on the class table, you learn a new principle of gramarie that you qualify for. At 7th level you gain access to Doctorate-level principles, and can refer to yourself as a doctor of any discipline you attain that level of knowledge in.

Momentous Flux (Ex): You now understand how to set up an additional kind of flux. Beginning at 3rd level, whenever you prepare YGGD 212, you can choose to prepare a momentous flux instead. This creates a field which absorbs or imparts momentum to anything that passes through it, as a logical decision. Certain objects or creatures can be made exempt to the effect, also as logical decisions, either at the time of entry or ahead of time. By default the flux is set to absorb all momentum inside of it, essentially reducing the speed of everything which enters it to 0. Living creatures and intelligent items are allowed an opposed Will save (DC 5 + 3 for every YGGD or ELDK principle you know) to avoid this effects; otherwise they are immediately stopped when entering the field, and slowed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/slow.htm) as long as they remain inside. Momentum which is collected is stored as Push, at 50% efficiency (half the Push is retained which is lost), based on the speed and size of the dampened target. A single flux can store a number of points of Push equal to the Forgery check made to create it. This Push remains indefinately, until it is spent as a logical decision; the decision can be either to impart the Push immediately to something in the field, or to impart it to a moving object specifically exempt to the field as it passes through. When a field is full to capacity, it no longer dampens movement. Push can also be drawn from the field and moved through a circuit to another momentous flux where it can be spent, although every intervening circuit it moves through consumes 1 point of Push.

If you do not yet know YGGD 212, you don't gain any benefit from this class feature until you learn it.

Warp Speed (Ex): At 5th level, you can now build a special kind of eldrikinetic engine, a warp engine. This is added to the list of engines you know as follows:

Warp: A warp engine uses salt as a fuel source, and is made out of glass. It must be maintained at a temperature of at least 605 degrees Centigrade at all times, or it ceases to function. By itself this engine generates up to 100 points of Push per round in exchange for 1 pound of salt, in any direction, even without any outside reference or gravity. More importantly however, if multiple warp engines are set up in parallel, the Push they generate (as well as the salt cost for each of them) increases by a factor of 10 for every additional engine (to a maximum of 12 engines at once; some asternomists have theorized about a potential 'warp 13', but these stories are generally dismissed as ridiculous, since that would cause evolution to go backwards or something). The speed generated from the Push can exceed c (a speed of 5.90E9 ft.), but the object immediately drops below light speed as soon as the engines stop firing. No matter how fast you go from the outside, on board the vessel travelling, things proceed at their normal speed. Essentially, a 'warp bubble' extends around the vessel, wherein relativistic effects do not occur (including the distortions of time normally associated with FTL travel). The engines also have a special dampening capacity, which can be activated as a logical decision on board the vessel in order to slow the ship down at a rate of 10% of c per round. This generates enormous amounts of waste heat, which are luckily dumped into a chaos dimension accessed inside the engines. A warp engine can also be activated with a single ebb of puissance, although this price also multiplies by 10 with each parallel engine, to a maximum of 12.

Every warp engine is tied to a single star, from which it siphons much of its power through extradimensional space. To build a warp engine, you must first research and discover the truename of the star you wish to tether it to. This counts as researching a truename, with a DC of 35 + 3 for each previous warp engine you've built. Activating the engine requires speaking its star's truename as a move action, with the same DC for this Truespeak check as for its research. If you have multiple warp engines hooked up in parallel, you can activate each of them with the same move action. You can activate yggdratectural warp engines by touching the reference point to their portal.

Space-Filling Curve (Ex): At 6th level, you learn to create a special curve which can fill the entire cosmos with a single dimension. This discovery allows you to connect multiple yggdratectural spaces in series for the purposes of your yggdratectural engines. You can now go two semi-spaces deep, although as many as you like laterally. So, for example, a ship could be hooked up to an engine in space A, and space A has connections to spaces B, C, and D, each of which also have engines which can be used to propel the original ship.

Cosmological Constant (Ex): At 8th level, you learn a special numerical constant which allows you to manipulate the expansion of space. By applying this mathematical secret, you can hasten travel times for all trips made using engines you build which you personally are a part of, by a factor of up to your Cha modifier.

Spaces Between Spaces (Ex): At 9th level, a truth of the cosmos reveals itself to you, which allows you to simultaneously reach multiple places at once, and to move momentum between them. You can now fix two reference points for a single space containing an yggdratectural engine. This means that the space can be connected to two vessels, creatures, or objects at the same time. Push generated by the engine can be applied to either reference point, divided up as a logical decision from the engine. Momentum of one of the objects can also be bled off through the engine and applied to the other object, at a rate equal to 50% of the maximum Push output of the engines acting as go-betweens, and subject to the travel limitations of those engines. If there are multiple engine spaces hooked up as per the space-filling curve class feature, all of the subordinate engines inside laterally connected spaces can be used for this transfer, but they must follow the lead of the primary engines in the direction of transfer of momentum. Their efficiency for this is only 25%. Laterally connected spaces like this cannot be hooked up to multiple primary engine spaces, even with this class feature.

Helmsman (Ex): You are so in tune with the cosmos that your awareness is everywhere at once. This perfect understanding allows you to make course corrections when controlling any engine you've built, during a single application of Push, no matter how fast you're going. Essentially, this lets you make nigh-infinite logical decisions about steering and directing the vessel inside of a single round, no matter how much distance is covered during that round.

I cried a little when I saw this prestige class... I... I have to make an Improved T.A.R.D.I.S. using this class... And oddly enough, the addition of Truenaming is pretty cool actually... Is it strange to wonder how much damage something does when it is hurdling at someone at 10^13 times the speed of light? Would it be safe to assume that such a target would be dead or incapable of standing?... or breathing?

Anyway, my first thoughts when I saw the production of a Salt Engine were to include several heat sources (that maintained the that can be deactived and reconnected to allow a ship to maintain long durations of power with little to no loss in the production of power and that could also maintain the 605 degrees centigrade to maintain the engine I do like the idea of using a Red Filter to prevent the Ice Transformer (Input) from melting down (as I hadn't thought about the bubble the Transformer used to collect said energy) and creating an extradimensional network that allowed an Ice Transformer (Output) to generate the requisite heat for all of the Salt Engines ... The use of a Star as an Engine... I like the way you think Mr. Johnston :smallamused:

Quick question: Can one of the Discoveries made by the Asternomist be the Dreamason's Rabbit Hole? Since it technically pertains to the use of a Semi-space :smalltongue: If this is a yes, then by jove I think we've got optimal FTL travel on day friken one! :smallamused:

[Kellus]

I cried a little when I saw this prestige class... I... I have to make an Improved T.A.R.D.I.S. using this class... And oddly enough, the addition of Truenaming is pretty cool actually... Is it strange to wonder how much damage something does when it is hurdling at someone at 10^13 times the speed of light? Would it be safe to assume that such a target would be dead or incapable of standing?... or breathing?

Anyway, my first thoughts when I saw the production of a Salt Engine were to include several heat sources (that maintained the that can be deactived and reconnected to allow a ship to maintain long durations of power with little to no loss in the production of power and that could also maintain the 605 degrees centigrade to maintain the engine I do like the idea of using a Red Filter to prevent the Ice Transformer (Input) from melting down (as I hadn't thought about the bubble the Transformer used to collect said energy) and creating an extradimensional network that allowed an Ice Transformer (Output) to generate the requisite heat for all of the Salt Engines ... The use of a Star as an Engine... I like the way you think Mr. Johnston :smallamused:

Quick question: Can one of the Discoveries made by the Asternomist be the Dreamason's Rabbit Hole? Since it technically pertains to the use of a Semi-space :smalltongue: If this is a yes, then by jove I think we've got optimal FTL travel on day friken one! :smallamused:

You can't get 10^13 times the speed of light; the maximum Push possible from 12 engines is 12*(10^11), which, assuming a Bulk of 1 (assuming your engines are all wrapped up in semispaces and massless and tethered to a wood chip or something) is a speed of 3.6E13 ft., which is about 6,000 times the speed of light.

And yes, Rabbit Hole is a general Heuristicism discovery. :smallsmile:

EDIT: NO. I'm sorry, let me try maths again. You can have 12 engines, each producing 100*10^11 Push, which means 1.2E14 Push. With a Bulk of 1, that's a maximum speed of 3.6E15ft., which is 610,000 times the speed of light. I wasn't accounting for 100 Push in my previous calculation. For reference, that is fast enough to get to the nearest star (Proxima Centauri) in 3.66 minutes if you can keep up the salt. Sorry for the confusion!

[Kellus]

The bad news, however, is that deceleration occurs at .1c per round, which at maximum possible speed is over 6,000,000 rounds, or 1.14 years of deceleration. I'm gonna go ahead and change that so that it bleeds off 10% of your current speed every round, no matter how fast you're going, as waste heat into a chaos dimension.

EDIT: Not actually necessary upon reflection, since you automatically drop to c as soon as the engines stop firing. 10% of c is more than enough. I should really have more faith in my own previous thought processes. :/

[LordChaos13]

This class is cool, but I doubt any PC would actually take it. Simply because it is SO much easier to make an EI take it, stick it on the ship you want and go.

This is for 3 reasons:
1 EIs are just easier in general to make for niche uses especially with Dreamason
2 the ever-ascending DC for every engine would quickly get out of hand for any large-scale production facility that doesnt produce EI for each ship
3 Cosmological Constant. The builder of the ship should ALWAYS be present on board their creation simply because of this class feature

Its still a good class, just one that excels as an EI-only class more than a PC class



In other news: a HEUR-Spec can start the singularity.
Make an EI
Level it too lvl12/16 (12 if access to lvl5+ sleeping people can't be done)
Have it take +int level up bonuses
Tell it to make an EI
That EI has +1/2 higher mental scores
Let simmer for a few loops and you will probably have either Skynet or Matrix

[Arcanist]

You can't get 10^13 times the speed of light; the maximum Push possible from 12 engines is 12*(10^11), which, assuming a Bulk of 1 (assuming your engines are all wrapped up in semispaces and massless and tethered to a wood chip or something) is a speed of 3.6E13 ft., which is about 6,000 times the speed of light.

Oh my... and I have to use a Large sized vessel to be my T.A.R.D.I.S. :smalltongue: I'm curious why you didn't allow the Momentous flux able to convert the push into ebbs, but regardless it certainly makes fighting as a Asternomist much more interesting now since you can now make a tiny semi-space with one, keep a small Orthogonal in there and let it build up push until you need to shoot something or apply push towards something. Either allowing you a sudden jump of Push to momentarily fly, blow a door off it's hinges, eject someone from their seats, launch them AND their horse into orbit, lots of fun things. Now Engines can be used in more... Destructive things than powering a land based car :smallamused:


And yes, Rabbit Hole is a general Heuristicism discovery. :smallsmile:

Augh! You're really going to make me think up an original power source eh? Hmm... This might actually be just the sort of thing I need to motivate myself to looking into a Sunmetal reactor.

Sure some of the already existing Disciplines for YGGD and ELDK aren't exactly the best for sustained temperatures or power, but it is interesting how you can make a sudden leap of movement with Green Energy (since it would reduce the ebb cost to 0... "I see no minimum up here."). An Engine launching someone at the speed of light feels a little... Slow :smalltongue:

Unless of course you can trigger each engine independently from the others at which point, ****in' A and just for some added speed, Overclock and make it an Intricate Engineering her would make for a mean girl... :smallamused:

Ah... The fastest ship in the Galaxy... And her name is... Titanic... That's a lucky name right? :smalltongue:

[Amechra]

Note to self: calculate out a proper industrial scale production for the Ruby Nuke.

I'm pretty sure that I can get it up to a burst that will give enough ebbs...

Edit: Wait, if I'm reading an earlier post right, two Warp Engines in parallel would generate 2000 Push.

I thought they would generate 1000 Push (in other words, the inclusion of a second engine just multiplies the first engine by 10...)

[Kellus]

Note to self: calculate out a proper industrial scale production for the Ruby Nuke.

I'm pretty sure that I can get it up to a burst that will give enough ebbs...

Edit: Wait, if I'm reading an earlier post right, two Warp Engines in parallel would generate 2000 Push.

I thought they would generate 1000 Push (in other words, the inclusion of a second engine just multiplies the first engine by 10...)

No, let me be clear on this. Every engine creates up to a base 100 Push, which is then multiplied by 10^(N-1), where N is the number of engines activated simultaneously. So two warp engines at max power produce 2,000 Push every round, but they also together consume 20 pounds of salt each round.

Three at max capacity produce 30,000 Push, and consume 300 pounds of salt. And so on.


Sure some of the already existing Disciplines for YGGD and ELDK aren't exactly the best for sustained temperatures or power, but it is interesting how you can make a sudden leap of movement with Green Energy (since it would reduce the ebb cost to 0... "I see no minimum up here."). An Engine launching someone at the speed of light feels a little... Slow

I love that Green Energy trick so much I'm just going to allow it. I love the idea of an instant 100 Push out of nowhere.


In other news: a HEUR-Spec can start the singularity.
Make an EI
Level it too lvl12/16 (12 if access to lvl5+ sleeping people can't be done)
Have it take +int level up bonuses
Tell it to make an EI
That EI has +1/2 higher mental scores
Let simmer for a few loops and you will probably have either Skynet or Matrix

I'll be honest, this was basically my intention with the Dreamason to allow the Matrix to be not only feasible but incentivized by draining the dreams of a massive population. :smallwink:

[Arcanist]

I love that Green Energy trick so much I'm just going to allow it. I love the idea of an instant 100 Push out of nowhere.

While were ignoring logic and replacing it with the rule of cool, lets make note of your next commentary.


I'll be honest, this was basically my intention with the Dreamason to allow the Matrix to be not only feasible but incentivized by draining the dreams of a massive population. :smallwink:

Congratulations Kellus, you have inspired me to make a Brain in a vat campaign setting with the BBEG being a Gramarist 7 / Dreamason 10 / Millwight 3 EI that actually uses the Lucid Dreaming skill... Also, why doesn't the Lucid Dreamcatcher not force the creatures caught in it to sleep? It would be a bit easier to force a massive network of people to sleep at the same time rather than to ask for written consent :smalltongue:

[Mithril Leaf]

CURSE THE NO PLASMA FILTER!
You could totally make your own star to hook your warp engines up to if we just had that damn plasma filter. You only need like 100 million degrees centigrade to reach fusion point. That's like a week of high end ice engines pumping heat into a thermally barricaded cube.

[Arcanist]

CURSE THE NO PLASMA FILTER!
You could totally make your own star to hook your warp engines up to if we just had that damn plasma filter. You only need like 100 million degrees centigrade to reach fusion point. That's like a week of high end ice engines pumping heat into a thermally barricaded cube.

This actually makes me curious as to when we will be able to develop stars. It would appear to resolve every single energy issue that any Gramarie based society would have... Maybe a potential product for an Alch/Arcd hybrid?

[Mithril Leaf]

This actually makes me curious as to when we will be able to develop stars. It would appear to resolve every single energy issue that any Gramarie based society would have... Maybe a potential product for an Alch/Arcd hybrid?

You can already solve most energy issues with simple ice engine and phlogiston, but you know, stars are just funner.

On an unrelated note, obsidian would be badass for the new alchemetry 1** principle. I want to make a super augmented obsidian blade. You can get that down to a few nanometers, sharper than even adamantine. If you pump up that hardness, you should get some awesome stuff from that.

EDIT: I've been reading the Book of Fiends by Green Ronin for my potential Contractor character, and he just has to have a pet Phlogiston Monitor. That wears phlogiston armor.

[RFLS]

What are these discoveries I see referenced in the new classes? They look....intriguing.

[Kellus]

What are these discoveries I see referenced in the new classes? They look....intriguing.

Sorry, discoveries are perks for the various disciplines which you can acquire by going into a specialist PrC or, in the updated base class, as a high level specialist gramarist. In the original conception they were unique to the prestige classes, so they're still all written individually in the individual specialist PrC's (dreamason, contractor, etc). In the new formulation, there are consolidated lists that you can choose from. Until I get the new thread posted, you can refer to the discoveries available to the dreamason and prime mover in this case.

[RFLS]

Sorry, discoveries are perks for the various disciplines which you can acquire by going into a specialist PrC or, in the updated base class, as a high level specialist gramarist. In the original conception they were unique to the prestige classes, so they're still all written individually in the individual specialist PrC's (dreamason, contractor, etc). In the new formulation, there are consolidated lists that you can choose from. Until I get the new thread posted, you can refer to the discoveries available to the dreamason and prime mover in this case.

Ohkay. Cool beans. Thanks for the fast reply, by the way.

Anyone mentioned you're kinda awesome recently? Cause you are. Here, have an internet cookie. It's shaped like a cat.

[LordChaos13]

They are a list of PrC-Only Kinda-Principles that act as upgrades.
Example the Contractor's ability to heat Pholgiston to 2K rather than its normaly heat is a Discovery from the list.
In the spoiler (and spoilered again cause Inception) are the Discoveries independent of the normal PrCs. it is an unstated(?) rule that all PrC requiring a certain Specialization (even Dual-Spec like the Millwight) give access to that spec's list of Discoveries.

Alchemetry:
Alchemastery (Ex): Your fiendish insight allows you to delve deeper into your command of the atomic. In particular, the elder engineers of the Lower Planes can lend you their advice about the highest forms of metal. At 2nd level and every two levels thereafter, you learn a new discovery which relates to the discipline of Alchemetry from the following list.


Amazing Alkahest: Your alkahest is an incredibly great solvent. Any alkahest solution that you create can now dissolve any inanimate object, not just a planetary metal. Otherwise, this follows all of the same rules for dissolving a planetary metal.

Continual Carmot: Carmot that you create now provides not only preservation, but restoration as well. Any object under its effects repairs itself at a rate of 1 hit point per round. Similarly, any creature under its effects gains fast healing 1.

Lethargic Lead: Enclosures surrounded by your cursed lead are now extremely slow, to the point where they have an equal and opposite effect to that of quicksilver. Objects and structures made from your cursed lead now experience time at a slower rate than other materials; for all purposes, they experience one round for every two normal rounds. Spaces, creatures, and objects completely enclosed by your cursed lead experience the same effect

Mysterious Moonsteel: Moonsteel that you create is partially made out of moonbeams. It weighs nothing at all, no matter how much of it there is. Anything inside of a moonsteel enclosure is treated as being under a perpetual blink effect.

Oefficient Orichalcum: You must be at your 10th class level to select this discovery. Orichalcum that you create is especially great at channeling puissance in it. Circuits that are set up between a wood transformer and a battery made out of your orichalcum no longer lose an ebb to inefficiency in the transfer. In addition, your orichalcum can now hold twice the number of ebbs that the same volume could normally hold.

Phlegmatic Phlogiston: Your phlogiston is especially pfiery! The heat aura around it radiates out an additional 5ft., and the area that would have been in the aura before now burns white-hot at a temperature of 2,000 degrees Centigrade.

Platinum Standard: You must be at your 10th class level to select this discovery. You can now transmute other metals into platinum with ALCH 286, but at a 10:1 ratio (that is, you only end up with 1/10 the volume you started with). The DC for platinum is 65.

Quixotic Quicksilver: Your quicksilver's especially quick. Quicksilver's elemental time trait now applies to anything that is touching at least half a cubic foot of quicksilver (479 fluid ounces).

Square-Cube Law: Learning this discovery allows you greater insight into the nature of three-dimensional structures. Your ALCH principles can now target any applicable body which has a volume of no more than 81 cubic feet and a weight of no more than 350,000 lb.

Sublime Sunmetal: Sunmetal that you create is now extremely radiomantic. It produces an aura with a radius of 5ft. (plus 5ft. for every size category of the sunmetal body beyond Medium) in which its handling effect occurs. The negative levels from the sunmetal exploding are now equal to one-tenth of the ebbs channeled into it (minimum 10 negative levels).

Very Irregular Properties: Energy exists not in a vacuum, but in conjunction with other kinds of energy. Discovering this allows you to place two ALCH 202 qualities on a given body at the same time.

Yggr:
Mother Lode (Ex): At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, you learn a secret art that the loden used to reshape the fabric of the world. You can choose one of the following discoveries. If a discovery relates to an yggdratectural space, semi-space, flux, or demi-plane that you create, you can retroactively apply a discovery to a field you have established in the past with an hour's work and a matching key skill check to its current value.

Winning (Ex): A real athlete values winning above any other concern. It doesn't matter how you do it, history remembers the person that crosses the finish line first. High-performance dungeonjammers have taken to pushing gramarie to its limits to get an added edge over their competitors. At 2nd level and every two levels thereafter, you learn a special discovery about yggdratecture from the following list:


Flux Capacitor: A polarcane flux can have any number of flux traits, although only one of any given kind (for example, you can't have gravity pulling in two different directions). If you have the ability to apply flux traits to other spaces, you can place multiple such traits in them as well.

Going Nowhere: To learn this discovery, you need to be able to join semi-spaces together with portals. You can now join a portal to a place that you haven't seen before; this works like a teleport effect, with the same chance of making a mistake in the coordinates of the point you're joining. The portal you create in the unknown space is immovable, and fixed in space once established.

Intense Causality: To learn this discovery you must know YGGD 371. Whenever you prepare an YGGD principle, you can twist the fabric of space-time in order to cause one of the following effects:
Reduce the time to prepare the principle by half.
Roll the skill check twice and select the result you prefer.

Keeper of the Keys: You can close spaces without them being destroyed permanently. You can also lock portals to semi-spaces and demiplanes, by touching it and making a Forgery check which meets or exceeds the original. In order to open the portal, a matching Forgery check needs to be made.

Plane Sense: By touching a portal, you can tell the size of the space that it connects to and any flux traits or planar traits in effect on the other side.

Reverse Geometry: When you set up a flux, you can choose to reverse its dimensionality. Instead of a semi-space which is bigger on the inside than the outside, this is a flux which is bigger on the outside than the inside. This counts as the flux trait; the area is actually two size categories smaller than the space it takes up in the outside world. Anything which enters into the flux is squeezed into that space as if they were in a small constrained area.

Usurp Space: By making a Forgery check that matches or exceeds the check of a space you are inside, you become the creator of the flux for all intents and purposes, including joining that space with other spaces.

Weird Time: To learn this discovery, you must know YGGD 371. To use it, you must be inside of a demiplane that you created with the Erratic Time trait. By spending an hour and making a Forgery check of equal or greater value to the check of the demiplane, you can reroll the Erratic Time Trait's time flow roll.

Eldrikinetics:
Elder Kinetic (Ex): At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, you discover a peak of learning known to the ancient meditants about the nature of motion. You can choose one of the following discoveries. If a discovery relates to eldrikinetic engines that you create, you can retroactively apply a discovery to an engine you have built in the past with an hour's work and a matching key skill check to its current value.


Aeronautical Savant: Any eldrikinetic engine you create which generates a fly speed can be controlled more finely; this increases the maneuverability by 1 stage, to a maximum of perfect (this even applies to a two-part engine). They also generate a flat 50 more points of Push over their normal amount (if you know both this and the overclock discovery, this modification is applied after overclocking the engine).

Artillery Expert: Ballistic engines that you create treat projectiles being launched as if they were one size category smaller than they actually are for the purposes of determining their speed, but one size category larger than they actually are for determining the damage that they deal.

Badger Badger Snake: Badgerdrawn engines that you create can be pushed into a frenzy. This is a burst effect that requires 10 times the normal amount of fuel, but it causes the engine and whatever is attached to it to shapechange temporarily into a badger of the appropriate size category. The badger can take a single round of actions, under the control of whoever is controlling the engine. During this turn, its burrow speed is multiplied by 10. At the end of its action, the badger transforms back into its original shape. This is a transmutation effect.

Electric Innovation: Lightningleap engines that you create can take advantage of the mutable nature of energy. Whenever a lightningleap engine is activated, whoever controls the engine can choose an alternate energy form from the following types: acid, cold, fire, and sonic.

Fish out of Water: Stonefish engines that you create can now allow a vessel to leave the earth medium they travel through. By burning up 5 rounds of stone swimming from the minute normally provided, the stonefish engine can launch a vessel through the air like a Ballistic Engine (except launching the engine, as well). The Push generated for this leap is multiplied by 5 (1,000 points of Push normally available for every leap from every engine in parallel). The engine must be immersed in stone, dirt, or metal at the start of the jump.

For the Swarm: Beeform engines that you create are now more intricate. While in bee swarm form, whoever is controlling the engine gains telepathy out to 1 mile for every 200 points of Push generated, but only with bees. They can usurp the bees' senses, as if with a sense link effect, but for every sense the bees have. They can also control all bees in the area, as if with a control plants effect, but for vermin. Both of these effects last for as long as the engine is in bee swarm form. Intelligent bees can resist the controlling effect with a Will saving throw (DC equal to the Concentration check of the engine).

Green Energy: Any eldrikinetic engine that you create can be sustained for one round or one burst with 1 less ebb of puissance than listed in its description (if you know both this and the overclock discovery, this modification is applied after overclocking the engine).

Intricate Engineering: Any eldrikinetic engine that you create has its size reduced. An engine that normally requires 1 cubic foot per preparation now only requires a 6" cube per. An engine that normally requires 8 cubic feet per preparation now only requires 1 cubic foot per.

Overclock: Any eldrikinetic engine that you create has its Push output increased by up to 20%, but its fuel requirements increase by 50% (including puissance) when you exceed its normal output.

Size Matters Not: Any eldrikinetic engine that you create ignores the modifier to Bulk for unusually dense or heavy materials. You can treat any kind of material as being normal density for its size category.

Biollurgy
Master Grafter (Ex): Your mastery of the flesh continues to expand. At 2nd level and every two levels thereafter, you learn a new discovery about the nature of biollurgy and fleshworking that allows you greater insight into the natural form. Every time you gain this feature, choose an ability from the following list.


Artificial Fleshshape: You can now choose to create a biollurgical chassis of a different type. Whenever you use BIOY 228 to create a chassis, you can choose for it to be a Construct. If you do make it a Construct, you can choose to install a cockpit inside of it, which any intelligent creature can use to operate the chassis. If you install a cockpit, the chassis loses its Intelligence score entirely, and cannot be affected with BIOY 273. Instead, any creature of a size of at least two size categories below the chassis can ride in the cockpit and operate it with a DC 10 Knowledge (arcana), Disable Device, or Ride check for one round. While operating it, the riding creature is considered entirely subsumed in the chassis, and for all intents and purposes acts as the chassis for that round. Constructs gain additional hit points based on their size categories, as described here

Bizarre Fleshshape: You must be at least at your 6th class level to select this discovery. You can now choose to create a biollurgical chassis of a different type. Whenever you use BIOY 228 to create a chassis, you can choose for it to have one of the following types: Plant, Ooze, Outsider, Undead, or Vermin. An Outsider has a native Plane of whatever Plane it was created on. A vermin is inherently mindless, and does not gain an Intelligence score; it can still be made sentient with BIOY 273, but it loses its mindlessness at that point.

Genetic Gramarie: You must be at your 10th class level to select this discovery and know BIOY 381. If a chassis that you create counts as an arcanodynamic transformer or an eldrikinetic engine and breeds, its descendants inherit the principles of gramarie that have been prepared on it from those two schools.

Heart of the Matter: You must be at your 10th class level to select this discovery, and know BIOY 340. You can use BIOY 340 to place a single 5th level graft on a chassis. This is a separate slot apart from the normal graft slots on the chassis.

Infinite Faces: You can place any number of 0th level grafts on a chassis, instead of just one.

Material Fleshshape: You can now choose to create a biollurgical chassis of a different type. Whenever you use BIOY 228 to create a chassis, you can choose for it to have one of the following types: Animal, Dragon, Giant, Humanoid, Magical Beast, or Monstrous Humanoid.

Real Steel: The nature of metal is malleable, and the skilled artisan can mold it to his liking. Whenever you create biostructure, you can choose for it to have the statistics of iron as far as hardness and hit points per inch of thickness goes, no matter what metal went into it. Biostructure treated this way is alway considered ferrous.

Volcanic Ventilation: In addition to the other gas processing options you have, you can choose to have biostructure that you create process sulfur dioxide.

Heuristics:
Oneirotecture (Ex): As you gain knowledge in the secret schemes of dreams, you can apply these advances to your gramarie. At 2nd level and every two levels thereafter, you learn a new discovery from the following list to advance your heuristical calculations and circuits.


Backdoor: You (and only you) no longer need to meet the Autohypnosis check required to modify triggers, responses, or control points in a circuit that you (and only you) built. You are always treated as passing these checks.

Hidden Code: You can choose for triggers and responses that you place in your circuit to be hidden from normal view, or even appear masked as something else. Someone must beat your Autohypnosis check by 15 or more to see past this camouflage.

Moore's Law: The number of logical decisions which an EI that you create can make in your circuits per round doubles. You can take this discovery multiple times, and it follows mathematical multiplication rules instead of D&D additive multiplicative rules.

The Most Exotic: You must be at your 10th class level to select this principle, and you must know HEUR 328. Your EI's are now much more resilient than normal; they never have to make saves to avoid being destroyed when components of the circuit are destroyed or removed. They can also be as intelligent as you, instead of having a maximum Intelligence of your own Int less 2.

Rabbit Hole: Your heuristical circuits now penetrate the fabric of space and time. If there is a portal inside the area of one of your heuristical circuits, the circuit penetrates the portal. On the other side of the portal, it spreads out in a bubble of the same size as the original size around the portal. The two bubbles are for all intents and purposes the same circuit. Information and puissance can be seamlessly transferred back and forth between them.

Variable of Volume: If you work out the maximum volume of your circuit based on the formula of volume being equal to (4/3)*pi*radius^3, you can set up circuits which are other shapes than bubbles. This principles do not have a minimum number of preparations, and the circuit field can be formed into any shape that you like using the volume available to you. The shape must be continuous, and at no point can be less than 6 inches by 6 inches thick.

We Are All Connected: You must be at your 10th class level to select this principle. Overlapping circuits that you set up can communicate with each other and connect to nodes inside of each other. Each circuit can only communicate and interact with circuits it is personally overlapping with, not other circuits further down the line.

Kaleidomantics:
Colour of Magic (Ex): Magic has many colours, and only you can see all of its shades. At 2nd level and every two levels thereafter, you learn a special discovery about kaleidomantics from the following list:


Unimpeachable Pigmentation Technique: Your filters are exceptionally well stuck in space. Whenever you fix a kaleidomantic filter to a point in space (instead of to someone or something), the Strength DC to move it increases by 5 and every preparation of it can hold an additional 1,000 lb.

Charcoal Chicanery: Whenever you construct a black filter, you can program it with an imachinary sensory component that you know. Any attempt to retrieve information from beyond the filter returns instead the illusory sensory component. This is essentially a new way to deliver an imachinary illusion, except instead of being fixed on a point in space, the illusion is based around the filter. By its nature a black filter blocks normal sensory information of all kinds, and thus this illusion works like a combination of an ablative effect and an additive effect. You prepare the illusion on top of the filter for the purposes of time use, although you can use the filter's Spot check instead of the normal key skill check for the illusion.

Colourgami: If you're willing to do the math to work out the surface area, you can construct curved kaleidomantic filters instead of flat 2D shapes. You can join them together like normal, but any one preparation of a filter can only have one radius of curvature.

Orange Originality: Whenever you construct an orange filter, the filter imprints itself with the first gas to contact it (or you can set a particular gas when you construct it). It becomes selective only to that kind of gas, and is completely permeable to other gases. Concentrations must be accurate to within 1,000 parts per million to trigger the filter.

Purple Perception: Whenever you construct a violet filter, the filter imprints itself with living things it comes in contact with. Whenever you (and only you) touch the filter, you can see the face and alignment of every living creature that touched the filter in the last day, in reverse order.

Ruby Ruination: Whenever you construct a red filter, heat that's blocked from passage is absorbed into the filter, like an ice arcanodynamic transformer. However, you cannot remove ebbs from it with a circuit or connect it to an output; instead, if the filter ever collapses it releases a fireball centered on itself, with a radius of 5ft. per ebb of heat absorbed, and dealing 1d6 fire damage per ebb. This fireball offers a Reflex save for half damage against the same DC as your mysteries. A red filter like this can store up to 1,000 ebbs of heat before it tops off; any excess heat is nullified like normal.

Teal Telemetry: Whenever you construct a blue filter, you (and only you) can tell just by touching it the volume and pressure of water pressing on it.

Ultramarine Ultimatum: Whenever you construct an indigo filter, protons and electrons accumulated by the filter can be recombined into their natural state. Whenever an acid is neutralized, the filter gains a number of 'proton points' equal to the damage per round the acid dealt, multiplied by the cubic feet of it neutralized. Whenever a base is neutralized, the filter gains a number of 'electron points' equal to the damage per round the base dealt, multiplied by the cubic feet of it neutralized. When the filter collapses, it spontaneously generates a volume of liquid water equal to 100 cubic feet of water for every pair of proton and electron points it's holding.

Verdant Venom: Whenever you construct a green filter, instead of eliminating toxins you can refine them. Fluid poisons that pass through your filter are not made inert, but instead they become more concentrated; as long as there is fluid for the venomous agent to reside in, someone can use your filter to purify such a poison. Refining a fluid poison works by moving part of the fluid through the filter, and thus concentrating the poison in the rest of the fluid. At least half of the fluid must be passed through the filter, and if additional volume of fluid is added to the poison later, the refinement is lost. Refining a poison increases the save DC by 4, and it deals an additional damage die of ability damage.

Xanthous Xception: Whenever you construct a yellow filter, you can program a single planetary metal into it as an exception. This metal can pass through the filter as if it weren't stone or metal, while the filter retains its impermeability to every other kind of stone and metal.

Imachination:
Endless Possibilities (Ex): As a servant of the Faerie Courts, you can glean some insight into the inner workings and infinite potential of fae glamours. At 2nd level and every two levels thereafter, you learn a special discovery about imachination from the following list:


Combinatory Illusions: You can choose a new function for your illusions: combinatory. Combinatory illusions can be either static, adaptive, or programmed, but they can also be controlled with logical decisions if they are tied into a heuristical circuit. Normally they work based on their simple function, but when being manipulated they instead (obviously) act as if they were an illusion with the 'controlled' function. If whoever controls the circuit stops making decisions for the illusion, it reverts to its base behaviour.

Extra-Real Images: Whoever said that specialization is for insects clearly didn't know what he was talking about; you double down on your illusionary homework, and are treated for the purposes of picking future illusions and for some DCs as if you knew one more IMCH principle than you actually do.

Hard to Believe: You can choose to make an illusion outlandish, in which case it's somewhat more obvious that it's absurd (+4 to checks to disbelieve it). On the other hand, if someone falls for it, it's an even more powerful assault on their senses; they take a -2 penalty on saving throws against any fake condition it would cause, and if it ever deals damage to them, the nonlethal damage is increased by +2d6.

Intricate Manufacturing: It's sort of like with lasers and water jets except a little more abstract. You can create illusions very carefully crafted down to the smallest detail, known as intricate illusions. An intricate illusion can only target one sense, but it's so well-built that people take a -4 penalty on any kind of check to notice the illusory nature of it. An intricate illusion takes twice as long to prepare.

Lurid Lure: You learn a new form for your illusions: luring. This places the veil of an illusion over an area, but doesn't actually change anything about it. Anyone who fails to penetrate the illusion becomes convinced that the object or area in question is in fact disguised using an illusion. Only by testing its 'realness' for themselves are they allowed a chance at a saving skill check.

Off the Edge of the Map: Here there be monsters! To choose this discovery, you need to have encountered a monster who has a sense that doesn't actually have a sensory component illusion for it. You can spend two days developing a new illusion sensory component tailor-made to foil that sense. With your DM, pick a skill which would normally be used in the routine use of the sense you are targeting. For example, if the sense you're targeting is the dweomersight of the balhannoth, you might choose Spellcraft as the skill normally used in the function of that sense. The sensory component you create can create any kind of sensory input normally associated with the sense you have chosen. You can pick this discovery multiple times; each time, you must have encountered a creature with a new sense that you want to foil.

Supersensory: Illusions with just one sense are like ice cream sundaes with only one topping: depressing and filled with tears. Your illusions are way more exciting: you can make supersensory illusions, which get a free bonus sensory component you know, without having to spend any extra time adding it.

Geocultism
Earthlore (Ex): The forces of nature have many secrets for you. Some of them relate to killing things, but others teach you how to build. At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, you learn a special discovery about geoccultism.


An Artificial Arctic: Your gold poles consume 25% less metal than normal, and are up to 10 degrees Centigrade colder than normal. You can apply the CorpsecrafterLM feat, if you know it, to your pole. This allows zombies raised with deadsnow to gain its benefits. Similarly, if you have any other feats with the [Corpsecrafter] tag, you can apply their benefits as well. You can have up to three living glaciers patrolling every 500ft. radius of your zone instead of just one. Mirror ice that you place in your arctic zone brings bad luck to anyone who breaks one of the mirror images; anyone who strikes one of the images instead of the illusive target takes a cumulative -1 luck penalty to all d20 rolls for seven days and seven nights.

Complex Environments: You can mix three metals together in a pole, as described in GEOC 323. There must still be one master pole, and you can draw a single kind of feature from the other two metals. You must know GEOC 323 to select this discovery.

Fancy Forests: Your copper poles consume 25% less metal than normal. You can place up to five light trees in the same square, two massive trees in the same square, or one massive tree and three light trees in the same square. Your ancient oaks are more perceptive than normal, and can see invisible creatures normally. They can also uproot themselves and move, with a speed of 10ft. by shambling their roots across the ground. Your heartwood now goes a step further in connecting things; if wood from one pole takes root in more than one other pole, poles which do not even contain the original wood can connected and controlled as described in the entry. If you have more than one nymph pool in your forest, stepping into one of them allows immediate transport to the other.

Grrrreat Grasslands: Your tin poles consume 25% less metal than normal, and the dirt is extra-good for growing things; harvests increase in yield by 25%. Ghostgrass that's grown in your grasslands, if properly preserved, maintains its edible incorporeal property for up to two weeks after leaving the zone. Your lightning pools can be recharged with electricity; a single lightning bolt into the pool empowers it with three ebbs of puissance. Standing stone circles that you set up can maintain twice as many transient effects as normal: ten instead of five on any given creature.

Just Deserts: Your iron poles consume 25% less metal than normal, and are up to 10 degrees hotter. You can choose to grow brassbrush as iron instead of copper. Firesand that you place can burn cold instead of hot if mixed with water at night; this creates a temperature of basically absolute zero while burning, which is approximately -273 Centigrade. Your mirage oases always have a pool of drinkable water in them which is sufficient for up to eight people to hydrate themselves for a day.

Mobile Oaks: Stationary features that you previously placed can be moved by 5ft. with a 5 lb expenditure of metal as a standard action when controlling the pole, but only within the normal constraints of placement.

Obviously an Ocean: Your silver poles consume 25% less metal than normal, and you can place living saltwater fish of your choice of up to 2 HD into your ocean zone for 5 lb apiece (after the discount). Krakenhaunts that you create conjure one duplicate creature every time they're activated. Your truewater crevices still can't be closed, but they stretch to accomodate passage of larger vessels or creatures; they can accomodate creatures of one size category larger than should be able to fit through them. Your prismatic reefs can now be built up to 100ft. above the free surface of the water.

Sickening Swamps: Your lead poles consume 25% less metal than normal, and every square in the swamp somehow now has vines in it instead of just squares with trees. Your black lagoons can be programmed with a single metamagic feat that you know (or that a friend of yours knows, who's willing to help), which is automatically applied to Necromancy spells cast in them. This cannot have an adjustment of more than +2 to the effective spell level. Your haunted bogs are more efficient than normal; they process a soul in 1 hour instead of 2, and produce a dread wraith instead of a normal wraith. Your ignes fatui no longer need sustenance from the pole to do their thing, and can make measurements off by up to +100% or -100% the actual reading.

Transient Poles: One of the most important discoveries, this lets a pole be fixed to a body of land instead of in space. If the land later moves, it carries the pole with it. The body of land must be entirely within the area of effect of the geoccult pole, and more importantly the pole cannot affect any land beyond the mobile body. This might not seem amazing, but it lets you have things like designer environments on flying islands or the backs of giant turtles, and so on in that fashion. You must be level 10 to select this discovery.

Wyrd Wetlands: Your mercury poles consume 25% less metal than normal, and you can place living freshwater fish of your choice of up to 2 HD into your lake zone for 5 lb apiece (after the discount). Cryptid caverns that you place are especially well hidden, as the actual knowledge of the caverns is impossible to remember; anyone who discovers the cavern is subject to an immediate suggestion to forget the existence of it (Will negates, DC 10 + 5 for every GEOC principle you know). Your healing springs now carry the full benefit of a regenerative effect, and can regrow lost limbs and other body parts. Your whisperreeds resonate when played as wind instruments, and can carry bardic music effects across any distance as well, essentially treating the second reed as the source of the music.

Arcanodynamics:
Energy Equations (Ex): At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, you learn an important equation relating to the flow of energy in gramaric systems. This is a discovery which can be applied to your arcanodynamic studies.


Bigby's Prime Analysis: This equation describes the connection between voltage and puissance. Physically conductive metal, such as copper, can now be used to transport puissance; if the metal is connected to a circuit, puissance which is placed into one part of it can be drawn out of another part of it on the same turn. Puissant flow degrades, at a rate of 1 ebb lost in every transfer for every 10ft. moved. A given circuit can only draw from one metal connection per round.

Drawmij's Algorithm: This equation describes how geoccult poles break down in an area of radiomantic imbalance. Knowing it allows you to produce the same effect with a less drastic input; sunlight radiating out from your gold transformers now threatens to destabilize geoccult poles the same way that a sunmetal explosion does.

Evard's Numerical Analysis: This equation describes the flow of heat into an area filled with cold energy. Cones of cold energy created with a mercury transformer no longer simply evaporate; Evard's last algorithm tells us that the cold energy has to go somewhere, and it ends up forming a sphere with the same volume as the cone. Anyone who passes through the sphere is subject to the initial effect of the cone; the cone lasts for 1 round per ebb. It tends to flow along heat gradients, and moves at 30ft. per round towards the largest source of fire damage in the previous round or, failing that, the warmest location, inside 200ft.

Leomund's Inequality: This equation describes a strange fluctuation that occurs when comparing a platinum transformer's action in a separate case involving quasi-deities. Knowing it allows you to have your platinum transformer input nets stop binders from contacting vestiges, as well as its normal uses.

Melf's Special Case: This equation describes the alternation of alkalinity with acidity for the special case where a copper transformer is involved. Knowing it allows you to have your copper transformers output basic media instead of acidic media, which deals the same amount of acid damage.

Mordenkainen's Transport Theorem: This equation describes the conservation of arcane energy on either sides of a silver transformer. Knowing it allows you to redefine the assumptions most people make about them; thanks to a greater understanding, you can store two spells in the same output transformer, which can be activated independently of each other, or even simultaneously if twice the combined cost of puissance for the two spells is provided.

Nolzur's Identity: This equation describes the fundamental connection between puissance and life, previously only seen in wood transformers. Knowing it allows you to treat any living thing, not just plant material, as if it were appropriate to construct a wood transformer. This works just like normal, but it allows you to turn living creatures or animal matter into 'wood' transformers.

Otiluke's Paradox: This equation describes the apparent impossibility of sound developing in silence, based on a view of sound using a model of heat flow. Knowing it allows you to ignore the silencing effect of a crystal transformer, without changing the amount of energy intake. In order to apply this equation, the ambient temperature in the crystal net needs to be above 45 Centigrade.

Otto's Last Theorem: This equation describes the emotional aspect to fire in addition to the purely physical. Knowing it allows you to draw 1 ebb per round from individuals under a rage effect or similar condition if they are in the input net for your ice transformers.

Tasha's Finite Decay: This equation is no laughing matter; it describes the lifespan of a radiomantic metal. While one of your lead transformers is giving off nuclear energy, it can now explode as if it were made of sunmetal.

Since Eldrikinetics is getting overhauled their Discovery List might change in the next Thread, same with Mordy's Transport Theorum since it references the Spell Silver-Out.
So the spoiler is V1.0 Gramarie Discoveries

EDIT: I should not have done all this work, I got ninjaed so hard :smalltongue:
Well Im keeping the consolidated list, I'm sure there is some use for it

[Arcanist]

A Time Lord in Distress
The worst part about this new prestige class is that it effectively accomplishes everything that I want, but I, by myself, cannot exploit it to it's fullest potential while still keeping in with my basic principles (as little spells as possible (if possible none), as little aid another as possible (if possible none), and only a single Gramarist).

Average room temperature is between 20-25 degrees Celsius meaning that by using an Ice Transformer I could increase the temperature by another 580-585 degrees at the cost of 116-117 ebbs. Theoretically, I could set up a massive network of Golden transformers to power the collection of Ice Transformer (Outputs).

This would sustain the Salt Engines, but not power it... Sustaining it isn't the hard part thought. It's powering it.

The escalating cost in ebbs make for this to be quite a project to undertake requiring a painful 100,000,000,000 ebbs to successfully power 12 Warp Engines (if that it increases as 10^(N-1)) ... Of course I could just use 12lbs of Salt, but where will I get that Salt when the SilverOut gets altered? :smallconfused:

Any idea how to harvest more power? I might use a Sunmetal reactor to generate 600 ebbs per cubic foot of Sunmetal (a 166,666,667 cubic feet of Sunmetal to trigger with an extra 200 run off ebbs) with a storage device of 1,000,000,000 cubic feet of Orichalcum for a quick inject of ebbs into the engines. UGH! I must figure out how to sustain 100,000,000,000 ebbs of power to trigger my T.A.R.D.I.S. engine! :smallfurious:

I'm starting to think that Time Lord Engineering might be the only way to actually breach the speed of light successfully :smallannoyed:

Chrononaut V2.0 coming to a relative point in time near you.

[Quester]

Oof, I'm pretty sure the price of salt increases in the same way as ebbs, not in the original version but Kellus updated it.

[Kellus]

Oof, I'm pretty sure the price of salt increases in the same way as ebbs, not in the original version but Kellus updated it.

This is completely correct; it was written that way for the salt price all along, it was actually the puissance equivalence which was ambiguously worded (I originally wrote "also increases exponentially" after specifying an base ebb cost of 1, implying 1^N ebbs), so I rephrased that. The salt cost wording hasn't changed, and indeed increases tenfold with each additional engine in parallel. As a consolation, you will be able to transmute stuff into salt with the new 100-level Alchemetry principle.

I'm finishing up the revisions to the gramarist base class now, I hope to post it later tonight!

[Arcanist]

This is completely correct; it was written that way for the salt price all along, it was actually the puissance equivalence which was ambiguously worded (I originally wrote "also increases exponentially" after specifying an base ebb cost of 1, implying 1^N ebbs), so I rephrased that. The salt cost wording hasn't changed, and indeed increases tenfold with each additional engine in parallel. As a consolation, you will be able to transmute stuff into salt with the new 100-level Alchemetry principle.

I'm finishing up the revisions to the gramarist base class now, I hope to post it later tonight!

... Isn't 1 to any power still 1? :smallconfused: So... powering 12 engines only cost 1 ebb? Or am I reading that wrong :smallconfused:

1^11 ebbs is still only one ebb... I am so confused by this engine... BUT I WANT IT! :smallfurious:

[Kellus]

... Isn't 1 to any power still 1? :smallconfused: So... powering 12 engines only cost 1 ebb? Or am I reading that wrong :smallconfused:

1^11 ebbs is still only one ebb... I am so confused by this engine... BUT I WANT IT! :smallfurious:


Warp: A warp engine uses salt as a fuel source, and is made out of glass. It must be maintained at a temperature of at least 605 degrees Centigrade at all times, or it ceases to function. By itself this engine generates up to 100 points of Push per round in exchange for 1 pound of salt, in any direction, even without any outside reference or gravity. More importantly however, if multiple warp engines are set up in parallel, the Push they generate (as well as the salt cost for each of them) increases by a factor of 10 for every additional engine (to a maximum of 12 engines at once; some asternomists have theorized about a potential 'warp 13', but these stories are generally dismissed as ridiculous, since that would cause evolution to go backwards or something). The speed generated from the Push can exceed c (a speed of 5.90E9 ft.), but the object immediately drops below light speed as soon as the engines stop firing. No matter how fast you go from the outside, on board the vessel travelling, things proceed at their normal speed. Essentially, a 'warp bubble' extends around the vessel, wherein relativistic effects do not occur (including the distortions of time normally associated with FTL travel). The engines also have a special dampening capacity, which can be activated as a logical decision on board the vessel in order to slow the ship down at a rate of 10% of c per round. This generates enormous amounts of waste heat, which are luckily dumped into a chaos dimension accessed inside the engines. A warp engine can also be activated with a single ebb of puissance, although this price also multiplies by 10 with each parallel engine, to a maximum of 12.

The salt cost starts at 1 pound for an engine. Every extra engine multiplies the cost for each engine by 10.

The puissance cost starts at 1 ebb for an engine. Every extra engine multiplies the cost for each engine by 10.

Each engine starts by producing 100 Push. Every extra engine multiplies the output of each engine by 10.

[Arcanist]

The salt cost starts at 1 pound for an engine. Every extra engine multiplies the cost for each engine by 10.

The puissance cost starts at 1 ebb for an engine. Every extra engine multiplies the cost for each engine by 10.

Each engine starts by producing 100 Push. Every extra engine multiplies the output of each engine by 10.

Alright this makes more sense to me so the cost in ebbs is directly proportionate to it's cost in salt... Interesting... Yes, I need to collect enough fuel to actually power these engines and then through the power the the Momentum flux... Yes... My power will be limitless! :smallamused:

Augh... How I wish sustained motion can be contained into ebbs... Truly this would be the most superior alternative to any Arcanodynamic Transformer :smalltongue:

[Omnicrat]

Alright this makes more sense to me so the cost in ebbs is directly proportionate to it's cost in salt... Interesting... Yes, I need to collect enough fuel to actually power these engines and then through the power the the Momentum flux... Yes... My power will be limitless! :smallamused:

Augh... How I wish sustained motion can be contained into ebbs... Truly this would be the most superior alternative to any Arcanodynamic Transformer :smalltongue:

I believe you hit the nail on the head for why you can't transfer motion to ebbs there sir.

Oh, and kellus, if you are still taking requests, then I want an epic level alchemetrist to be able to make adamantium and mithril and all other special metals. I want special metal transformers and engines.

Also, I don't know if I ever said this in the main thread or not, but a graft taken from circuited chassis that lets someone count as a node and control point in circuits would be great.

[Morcleon]

A Time Lord in Distress
The worst part about this new prestige class is that it effectively accomplishes everything that I want, but I, by myself, cannot exploit it to it's fullest potential while still keeping in with my basic principles (as little spells as possible (if possible none), as little aid another as possible (if possible none), and only a single Gramarist).

Average room temperature is between 20-25 degrees Celsius meaning that by using an Ice Transformer I could increase the temperature by another 580-585 degrees at the cost of 116-117 ebbs. Theoretically, I could set up a massive network of Golden transformers to power the collection of Ice Transformer (Outputs).

This would sustain the Salt Engines, but not power it... Sustaining it isn't the hard part thought. It's powering it.

The escalating cost in ebbs make for this to be quite a project to undertake requiring a painful 100,000,000,000 ebbs to successfully power 12 Warp Engines (if that it increases as 10^(N-1)) ... Of course I could just use 12lbs of Salt, but where will I get that Salt when the SilverOut gets altered? :smallconfused:

Any idea how to harvest more power? I might use a Sunmetal reactor to generate 600 ebbs per cubic foot of Sunmetal (a 166,666,667 cubic feet of Sunmetal to trigger with an extra 200 run off ebbs) with a storage device of 1,000,000,000 cubic feet of Orichalcum for a quick inject of ebbs into the engines. UGH! I must figure out how to sustain 100,000,000,000 ebbs of power to trigger my T.A.R.D.I.S. engine! :smallfurious:

I'm starting to think that Time Lord Engineering might be the only way to actually breach the speed of light successfully :smallannoyed:

Chrononaut V2.0 coming to a relative point in time near you.

Hm... I recall making a rather efficient ebb generator a few dozen pages back. I'll see if I can find the description of it again. I'm not sure exactly how much it could output per round though...

[Arcanist]

I believe you hit the nail on the head for why you can't transfer motion to ebbs there sir.

I know :smallfrown: I'm just bothered at this energy crisis I'm running through :smallannoyed:


Hm... I recall making a rather efficient ebb generator a few dozen pages back. I'll see if I can find the description of it again. I'm not sure exactly how much it could output per round though...

Please direct me towards it. Any alternative source of power would be welcome :smallsmile:

[Amechra]

I thought of a "sustainable" version of my original Ruby Ruination bomb:

You need:

1 tube, 4' by 1' by 1'.
2 Ice-Ins.
1 1' cube block of Phlogiston.
2 Yggdratecture Subspaces.

Alright, here is how it all mixes together:

1. Affix Ice-Ins to tube; one should be attached to each end of the tube.

In other words,

T - Ice-In
U
B
E - Ice-In

2. When setting up the Ice-Ins, manipulate the "bubble" so that it only covers the 1' cube adjoining with the Ice-In, like so:

T - Ice-In
U
B
E - Ice-In

3. Set up a pair of the subspaces, one at each end; each should be a 1' cube. Connect the two of them so that there is a straight fall, like so:

Subspace 1
T - Ice-In
U
B
E - Ice-In
Subspace 2

4. Insert block of Phlogiston into where the B is on the above diagram. Let it drop.

On the first round, it falls 60'. On subsequent rounds, it falls 300' per round.

On the first round, it cycles through the whole set-up 10 times, meaning that it goes through both Ice-In's bubbles 10 times each.

On subsequent rounds, it goes through the cycle 50 times, which hits each Ice-In 50 times.

Round 1 production: 1960 Ebbs.
Round 2+ production: 9800 Ebbs.

Using the Phiery Phlogiston discovery, Production is increased by 2000 (first round) and 10000 (subsequent rounds).

You need 5,050,506 of these to power one Salt Engine for a round when 12 are hooked in parallel, for a total of 60,606,061 for all of your engines.

You can, if you set up the ice-ins to have a net shaped like a 11' by 11' by 1' rectangle, set up 100 of these things in a 11' by 11' by 4' space.

You only need something like 2 million cubic feet of these things! Hurrah!

Honestly, you could position Ice-Ins closer, but it can be argued that having them all adjacent would leave them a bit useless. Still, if done, you can double Ebb production, which is seriously nice.

One "block" could generate 7,920,000 ebbs in a round (after a one round "warm-up").

Oh, and you might want to make the tubes out of Red filters. Because otherwise the generator room is going to be hellishly hot.

Or... (slightly less kosher, maybe, but hilarious)...

1. Take the original tube design. Narrow it to 1'' by 1'' by 4'.

2. Attach a ballistic engine.

3. Lay a 1'' cube of Phlogiston in the tube, directly abutting the Ballistic engine. Through discoveries, you should be able to get it down to Bulk 8.

4. Activate the Ballistic engine to generate 400 Push, for 12000' of movement. For 6 ebbs per round, that produces 5 times as much energy as each of the above generators. Considering that each Ballistic Engine. Let's apply the discovery that reduces the size of the engine to a 6' cube, allowing you to attach 24 of these to one engine, which, connected to a Heuristic net, can fire each on in series.

In other words, modify the above "generator block" to use a 1' by 5' by 5' bubbles, and you can shove 28 of those 24-tube sets within the 5' cube.

Which comes out to 266,112,000 ebbs per round, but costs 4,032 ebbs per round to run.

You could exploit gravity (i.e., have it fall, and fire it at just the right time) to get a 20% increase in ebb production, but the point of the matter still holds:

You would only need 4510 of these things to power all of your engines.

All 12 of them, running you at a significant multiple of c.

Perpetually.

Note: Yes, I am aware that you need a generator to power the generator. Yeah.

tL;Dr: I may have just solved all of Arcanist's ebb problems, if I didn't get something horribly wrong. Also, it will probably be obsolete by the time the new Eldrikinetics rules are up. :smallfrown:

[LordChaos13]

Why not just have a series of Go/Gi cubes stacked up so they produce enough

4 Ebbs taken each round, 26*3 ebbs produced by the GoldIn
1 Ebb /4 Go/Gi generators because one Wood can have a bubble encapsulating all 26 GoldIns for 4 generators if set up right
26*3 *4 -17

100000000000 /295
338,983,051 stacks of 4 generators to power the whole thing at maximum speed in real-time.

Assuming the Silver stays the same making one of these ship power cores (which still doesn't take into account the REST of the ship) is this:

1 SilverOut True Creation (base CL): 15 cubic feet of Gold, firing every round for an hour (15*10*60 = 9,000)
HEUR 302 GoldOut *333
HEUR 302 GoldOut *333 * 26 (8658)
Waste Gold /hour: 9 cubic feet

1SilverOut True Creation (base CL): 15 cubic feet of Wood, firing every round for an hour (9,000)
HEUR 302 WoodIn *83
HEUR 302 WoodOut *83
Waste Wood /hour: 8834 cubic feet
54 hour cycles. True Creation on 1/54 hours
Waste Wood /cycle: 36 cubic feet

HEUR302 YGGR101 *83 (tied to WoodOut)
HEUR302YGGR101 *83 (tied to Warp Engine)
HEUR302 YGGR241 *83
HEUR302 Any Arcanodynamics *83 (set inside the YGGR 101 tied to Warp Engine so the opening into the semispace is covered by the arcanodynamic reactor. Acts as Ebb transfer to Engine to avoid overloading Warp Engine HEUR circuit)

HEUR 302 YGGR 353 *403,380 (Making a Demiplane that expands as soon as the next batch of generators is finished. There is a 1 cubic foot area on two adjacent sides because the generator is 35*35*30 not 36*36*30)

Powering the Factory: it needs 412,786 Ebbs per round and every 54 hours needs another 15/round

How long to make 1 Core: 83 generators per hour per factory. 4,084,134 hours to complete and has 71 extra generators (giving the rest of the ship 20,945 Ebbs to power the rest of the stuff like lights)
That is a little over 466 years to complete 1 core, per factory. 233 years if two factories and to get it down to 1 year needs 500 of these things.
it seems like a lot, but a Factory-Factory could begin cranking these out by the boatload.

[Morcleon]

@Amechra: Why make everything as big as that? You do realize you could just make the nets 1/(infinity) radius, as you don't have to use up all the possible volume. :smallbiggrin:

[Quester]

As always Amechra you blueprints are as ingenious as they are hard to understand, so forgive me if I misunderstand. But, it seems you premise is thwarted by an oft forgotten clause.



An input transformer's bubble (or 'net') radius depends on how many times you prepare the principle, as normal for bubbles. For an output transformer to alter the energy absorbed, the output principle must have been prepared at least as many times as the input principle. An input transformer without an output transformer dissipates the energy absorbed into the aether, which can be useful for less complicated problems. All energy is measured in ebbs, which is a generic unit of supernatural power. A transformed can only ever channel a number of ebbs in a given round equal to the Use Magic Device check. If the energy that could be absorbed exceeds this limit, the excess is not absorbed. Transformations which provide a rate at which energy is transformed is typically by round unless specified otherwise.

[Amechra]

Because, well, then I'd have to make the generators equally thin, making the designing prohibitive (bubbles kinda have to contain (or at least touch) the generator itself.)

Also, I refuse to reduce anything below an inch, because it reminds me of a friend who used Deathtouch + Forced Blocking in Magic, and said that, because the rules don't say that you can't, he could divide up the damage in fractional amounts.

And with an inch thickness, the generator would have to be 3' by 4'. Further investigation is necessary.

[Morcleon]

Because, well, then I'd have to make the generators equally thin, making the designing prohibitive (bubbles kinda have to contain (or at least touch) the generator itself.)

Also, I refuse to reduce anything below an inch, because it reminds me of a friend who used Deathtouch + Forced Blocking in Magic, and said that, because the rules don't say that you can't, he could divide up the damage in fractional amounts.

And with an inch thickness, the generator would have to be 3' by 4'. Further investigation is necessary.

No, I meant a 1/(infinity) radius off of the IceIn.

The rules also don't say elves can't shoot lasers out of their eyes. Damage comes in points. There is nothing about it in fractions. It's like saying that you'll give people cars, but in installments of 1/3. A third of a car is just so much scrap metal.

[Amechra]

But then I have to thin the generators, so that the bubble still contains the Ice-In.

All I'm going to say is that I wouldn't allow it if I was running a game, and I pretty much would allow anything that wasn't relying on OOC physics.

[Arcanist]

I thought of a "sustainable" version of my original Ruby Ruination bomb:

You need:

1 tube, 4' by 1' by 1'.
2 Ice-Ins.
1 1' cube block of Phlogiston.
2 Yggdratecture Subspaces.

Alright, here is how it all mixes together:

1. Affix Ice-Ins to tube; one should be attached to each end of the tube.

In other words,

T - Ice-In
U
B
E - Ice-In

2. When setting up the Ice-Ins, manipulate the "bubble" so that it only covers the 1' cube adjoining with the Ice-In, like so:

T - Ice-In
U
B
E - Ice-In

3. Set up a pair of the subspaces, one at each end; each should be a 1' cube. Connect the two of them so that there is a straight fall, like so:

Subspace 1
T - Ice-In
U
B
E - Ice-In
Subspace 2

4. Insert block of Phlogiston into where the B is on the above diagram. Let it drop.

On the first round, it falls 60'. On subsequent rounds, it falls 300' per round.

On the first round, it cycles through the whole set-up 10 times, meaning that it goes through both Ice-In's bubbles 10 times each.

On subsequent rounds, it goes through the cycle 50 times, which hits each Ice-In 50 times.

Round 1 production: 1960 Ebbs.
Round 2+ production: 9800 Ebbs.

Using the Phiery Phlogiston discovery, Production is increased by 2000 (first round) and 10000 (subsequent rounds).

You need 5,050,506 of these to power one Salt Engine for a round when 12 are hooked in parallel, for a total of 60,606,061 for all of your engines.

You can, if you set up the ice-ins to have a net shaped like a 11' by 11' by 1' rectangle, set up 100 of these things in a 11' by 11' by 4' space.

You only need something like 2 million cubic feet of these things! Hurrah!

Honestly, you could position Ice-Ins closer, but it can be argued that having them all adjacent would leave them a bit useless. Still, if done, you can double Ebb production, which is seriously nice.

One "block" could generate 7,920,000 ebbs in a round (after a one round "warm-up").

Oh, and you might want to make the tubes out of Red filters. Because otherwise the generator room is going to be hellishly hot.

Or... (slightly less kosher, maybe, but hilarious)...

1. Take the original tube design. Narrow it to 1'' by 1'' by 4'.

2. Attach a ballistic engine.

3. Lay a 1'' cube of Phlogiston in the tube, directly abutting the Ballistic engine. Through discoveries, you should be able to get it down to Bulk 8.

4. Activate the Ballistic engine to generate 400 Push, for 12000' of movement. For 6 ebbs per round, that produces 5 times as much energy as each of the above generators. Considering that each Ballistic Engine. Let's apply the discovery that reduces the size of the engine to a 6' cube, allowing you to attach 24 of these to one engine, which, connected to a Heuristic net, can fire each on in series.

In other words, modify the above "generator block" to use a 1' by 5' by 5' bubbles, and you can shove 28 of those 24-tube sets within the 5' cube.

Which comes out to 266,112,000 ebbs per round, but costs 4,032 ebbs per round to run.

You could exploit gravity (i.e., have it fall, and fire it at just the right time) to get a 20% increase in ebb production, but the point of the matter still holds:

You would only need 4510 of these things to power all of your engines.

All 12 of them, running you at a significant multiple of c.

Perpetually.

Note: Yes, I am aware that you need a generator to power the generator. Yeah.

tL;Dr: I may have just solved all of Arcanist's ebb problems, if I didn't get something horribly wrong. Also, it will probably be obsolete by the time the new Eldrikinetics rules are up. :smallfrown:

I had given this design some thought, but I feel that I wouldn't be able to replicate it enough times since it requires not only a super charged Aid Another to bypass the limit on transferable ebbs, it would also require a Gramarist 7+ / Contractor 2+ (up to 15th for ARCD 350 & ALCH 364), a Gramarist 7 / Shadowright 2 (for Ruby Ruination) and a Gramarist 7 / Asternomist 5 to even set up the Salt Engine. This design actually solves my energy crisis perfectly, but it requires so much effort that it would only function in a party of Gramarist and I generally try to operate on the assumption that a Gramarist is on their own when developing designs.

It pains me to say that this design, while quite honestly ingenious (better than anything I can think of, I'll tell you that), it is impractical under those boundaries... My god, this is like the BEST energy reactor that I've ever seen... I'd also like to note, that the SilverOut still does not make much sense to me since the spell is prepared with the SilverOut. How is the spell prepared when the Gramarist does not prepare or cast spells? Do they just shape the Eldritch Blast energy into the spell they want? How does this work!? ... This is actually one of the reasons why I don't like using the SilverOut :smallsigh:


Why not just have a series of Go/Gi cubes stacked up so they produce enough

4 Ebbs taken each round, 26*3 ebbs produced by the GoldIn
1 Ebb /4 Go/Gi generators because one Wood can have a bubble encapsulating all 26 GoldIns for 4 generators if set up right
26*3 *4 -17

100000000000 /295
338,983,051 stacks of 4 generators to power the whole thing at maximum speed in real-time.

Assuming the Silver stays the same making one of these ship power cores (which still doesn't take into account the REST of the ship) is this:

1 SilverOut True Creation (base CL): 15 cubic feet of Gold, firing every round for an hour (15*10*60 = 9,000)
HEUR 302 GoldOut *333
HEUR 302 GoldOut *333 * 26 (8658)
Waste Gold /hour: 9 cubic feet

1SilverOut True Creation (base CL): 15 cubic feet of Wood, firing every round for an hour (9,000)
HEUR 302 WoodIn *83
HEUR 302 WoodOut *83
Waste Wood /hour: 8834 cubic feet
54 hour cycles. True Creation on 1/54 hours
Waste Wood /cycle: 36 cubic feet

HEUR302 YGGR101 *83 (tied to WoodOut)
HEUR302YGGR101 *83 (tied to Warp Engine)
HEUR302 YGGR241 *83
HEUR302 Any Arcanodynamics *83 (set inside the YGGR 101 tied to Warp Engine so the opening into the semispace is covered by the arcanodynamic reactor. Acts as Ebb transfer to Engine to avoid overloading Warp Engine HEUR circuit)

HEUR 302 YGGR 353 *403,380 (Making a Demiplane that expands as soon as the next batch of generators is finished. There is a 1 cubic foot area on two adjacent sides because the generator is 35*35*30 not 36*36*30)

Powering the Factory: it needs 412,786 Ebbs per round and every 54 hours needs another 15/round

How long to make 1 Core: 83 generators per hour per factory. 4,084,134 hours to complete and has 71 extra generators (giving the rest of the ship 20,945 Ebbs to power the rest of the stuff like lights)
That is a little over 466 years to complete 1 core, per factory. 233 years if two factories and to get it down to 1 year needs 500 of these things.
it seems like a lot, but a Factory-Factory could begin cranking these out by the boatload.


Requires no specialization and just creative designing. Same principle as the Ruby Ruination Reactor (I don't see how it is a bomb...) and it manipulates Factory-Factory design.

Honestly, from your guys designs, I've figured out how to solve my power problems. All it takes is a Gramarist 7 / Truenamer 1 / Asternomist 6 and the exploitation of the Space-Filling Curve ability.


Space-Filling Curve (Ex): At 6th level, you learn to create a special curve which can fill the entire cosmos with a single dimension. This discovery allows you to connect multiple yggdratectural spaces in series for the purposes of your yggdratectural engines. You can now go two semi-spaces deep, although as many as you like laterally. So, for example, a ship could be hooked up to an engine in space A, and space A has connections to spaces B, C, and D, each of which also have engines which can be used to propel the original ship.

Each room contains a single Arc Reactor (name of my new design) and a Salt Engine which is connected to the other engines. 12 separate energy reactors connected to 12 separate warp engines.

Arc(anist) Reactor

Name: Arc(anist) Reactor
Principles: ARCD 204, HEUR 101, HEUR 245 (optional), YGGD 101, YGGD 212, YGGD 241
Spells: Continuous Flame
Materials: 4 1/2'' diameter non-magical spheres and 4 4' non-magical black tubes that can house the spheres
Prestige classes: Asternomist
Patent: Arcanist

You establish a Semi-spaces room (64^3 feet). Create 4 Golden Outputs and connect them together distanced by the tubes leaving the transformer exposed for only an inch of space. At the entrance and exit of each tube create a pathway and at the exit of these pathways create create a gravity flux that sets the falling gravity to be directed to the next entrance.

Now connect each Golden Output with a Heuristic Circuit to a Salt Engine. Between the Salt Engine. Create a Control Point (This is optional). You then place 4 Light spheres into the tubes and let them transit like that falling 300'/round through the pathways 3,600 times per round delivering a grand total of 10,800 ebbs per transformer per round for a total of 43,200 ebbs per unit.

You perform this 11 more times for each semi-space using up all the requisite equipment (or as many as you can fit into a room). Regardless this method generates a total of 43,200 ebbs per unit (generating 518,400 ebbs in total, with a basic set up). To power all 12 engines at once you need 2,314,815 units.

Personally, I'd like to connect this network of reactors to a control point so you can just shut down the whole thing to prevent someone who steals your ship from getting to the ends of the known universe :smalltongue:

I'm barely even sure that this reactor even works, but it looks, per the design in my head, like it should work. This schematic can be created by anyone with a pocket full of dreams; Hell Incongruous Pathways isn't really absolutely necessary, I just used it so that I could save space on the reactor and creating fluxes to direct the stones. I do have some thoughts to make this in much smaller scale (I think I can get it down to 4 cubic feet each, stack them up on each other and place up to 16 in each semi-space room provided you have Incongruous Pathways and you might be able to drill into the Golden Transformer, add 4 more Transformers, and drill clear tubes through them and still let them function as the black tubes to generate more power.) You could also place a Momentous Flux (Which I'm still not sure it's intention was) with a control point (so you can deactivate it so you can... Move?) Not sure what I could do with that extra Push though, but I'm sure you can recycle it into dealing some serious damage :smallsmile:

I'm still fiddling with this little idea, but thus far it looks like it might just get me where I'm headed... I'm curious if one could activate each engine individually and use each engine to give myself a boost when needed. I mean, if I'm not in any hurry, why should I break the speed of light? Or can I not just break the speed of light as necessary? I mean it only takes 10 ebbs to go twice the speed of light so going 12 times the speed of light whenever you need to get places is just overkill, hell! If you want to suddenly go at the speed of light, just take Green Energy and let your ships jump at the speed of light until you want to stop... Just something I'd like to add :smalltongue:

[Amechra]

I usually design things as if they were to be made in teams; you tend to get interesting results that way (like 35 5' cubes that generates enough watts (I just noticed that you said volts, Kellus. You want watts.) to power London.)

But other than that, I found an interesting idea for an incendiary weapon.

Basically, you need the Square-Cube Law discovery and a block of Iron. File the iron block down to a pile of filings, then convert it into Phlogiston.

Stick some in a bottle, and toss it. When the bottle breaks, out comes a pile of phlogiston, lighting flammables within a 5' radius of the square it lands in on fire.

And by "bottle", I mean "glass bottle made out of a composite layering process. Probably a cube, because that would be easier to construct."

Basically, you use the fact that, if one material has different properties from another material, they are by definition separate materials.

What this means is that you can "stack" heat capacity.

To give an example, lets say you can consistently hit a DC 50 for your ALCH 101 Diplomacy check. And you don't want to burn your fingers when handling phlogiston.

You just layer the materials, after giving them a heat capacity of 1/5:
The first layer treats the temperature as 200 degrees.
The second layer treats the temperature as 40 degrees.

There. Now throw the warm bottle, and watch it burn things down.

[LordChaos13]

Arc(anist) Reactor

Name: Arc(anist) Reactor
Principles: ARCD 204, HEUR 101, HEUR 245 (optional), YGGD 101, YGGD 212, YGGD 241
Spells: Continuous Light
Materials: 48 2'' diameter non-magical spheres and 48 4' non-magical black tubes that can house the spheres
Prestige classes: Asternomist
Patent: Arcanist

You establish 12 Semi-spaces rooms as large as you can make. Create 12 Golden Outputs and connect them together distanced by the tubes. At the entrance and exit of each tube create a pathway and at the exit of these pathways create create a gravity flux that sets the falling gravity to be directed to the next entrance. The tubes only encountering the Golden Transformers for a single inch interval.

Now connect each Golden Output with a Heuristic Circuit to a Salt Engine. Between the Salt Engine. Create a Control Point (This is optional). You then place 4 Light spheres into the tubes and let them transit like that falling 300'/round through the pathways delivering a grand total of 10,800 ebbs per transformer per round for a total of 43,200 ebbs per unit.

You perform this 11 more times for each semi-space using up all the requisite equipment (or as many as you can fit into a room). Regardless this method generates a total of 43,200 ebbs per unit (generating 518,400 ebbs in total, with a basic set up). To power all 12 of these engines you need 2,314,815 units.

Personally, I'd like to connect this network of reactors to a control point so you can just shut down the whole thing to prevent someone who steals your ship from getting to the ends of the known universe :smalltongue:

I'm barely even sure that this reactor even works, but it looks, per the design in my head, like it should work. This schematic can be created by anyone with a pocket full of dreams; Hell Incongruous Pathways isn't really absolutely necessary, I just used it so that I could save space on the reactor and creating fluxes to direct the stones. I do have some thoughts to make this in much smaller scale (I think I can get it down to 4 cubic feet each, stack them up on each other and place up to 16 in each semi-space room provided you have Incongruous Pathways and you might be able to drill into the Golden Transformer, add 4 more Transformers, and drill clear tubes through them and still let them function as the black tubes to generate more power.) You could also place a Momentous Flux with a control point (so you can deactivate it so you can... Move?) Not sure what I could do with that extra Push though, but I'm sure you can recycle it into dealing some serious damage :smallsmile:

I'm still fiddling with this little idea, but thus far it looks like it might just get me where I'm headed... I'm curious if one could activate each engine individually and use each engine to give myself a boost when needed. I mean, if I'm not in any hurry, why should I break the speed of light? Or can I not just break the speed of light as necessary? I mean it only takes 10 ebbs to go twice the speed of light so going 12 times the speed of light whenever you need to get places is just overkill... Just something I'd like to add :smalltongue:

10K for each transformer means having a UMD check of 10K.
So not possible without swarms of Tiny EI-Controlled Chasis

[Amechra]

You know what? I've been missing the limitation on Ebbs channeled.

So why not have a mechanical rotating system that transfers in a copious amount of transformers? So that would be...

200 transformers per 5' cube with mine. Give me a bit, and I think I can calculate a dropping chute method of rotating them that doesn't require more space than it can logically fit.

I'll need big subspaces, though...

Complicated as hell, yes, but if I can pull it off, it will be "elegant".

[Arcanist]

10K for each transformer means having a UMD check of 10K.
So not possible without swarms of Tiny EI-Controlled Chasis

And you're right! There is a reason I questioned the validity of this reactor :smallwink:

Regardless, there is always using a Super-charged Aid Another (or a "Research Team") to gain such a skill check. You can gain those assistants by using all the BIOY principles up to Magisterial (Sentience of course) and have them all take 2 levels in Expert (or Gramarist). Of course this takes away from my desire for independence in my projects, but it serves its purpose. :smallannoyed:

EDIT: Welcome to the last page ladies and gentlemen :smallcool:

EDIT OF AN EDIT: GREAT NEWS EVERYONE! I figured out how to mass produce my Securitrons and how to establish my control over New Vegas! THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS! :smallamused:

EDIT OF AN EDIT OF AN EDIT: GREATER NEWS EVERYONE! I figured out how to grant a Gramarist eternal life without to much effort! My knowledge of longevity can now fill several text books! :smallamused: HEURISTICISM! HOW DID I NOT NOTICE IT'S ABILITY TO MASS PRODUCE GRAMARIE!?:smallbiggrin:

[LordChaos13]

No dont do that, make a race of Circuited Chassis then have 1 DreamasonXPed EI control all of them (up to 200 /EI)
They all would succeed on the check cause you want a lvl11 minimum EI (they gain XP if the drained NPCs are within 10 levels. So they stop gaining XP from Joe Commoner at lvl11)

Less chance of failure and there are rules for giving them free XP that doesnt involve a meatgrinder

[Arcanist]

No dont do that, make a race of Circuited Chassis then have 1 DreamasonXPed EI control all of them (up to 200 /EI)
They all would succeed on the check cause you want a lvl11 minimum EI (they gain XP if the drained NPCs are within 10 levels. So they stop gaining XP from Joe Commoner at lvl11)

Less chance of failure and there are rules for giving them free XP that doesnt involve a meatgrinder

Circuited Chassi lack the skills to be able to aid another unless "control" extends to "Anything I can do, these chassi can do as well". Not exactly sure on that.

[Amechra]

Brainflash!

I was looking at power generation all wrong.

I was trying to get around the limit on how many ebbs can be transferred through a net each round by making two points of motion (drop Ice-Ins, and drop Phlogiston.)

Then I realized that dropping Ice-Ins was all I needed.

May I present to you, ladies and gentlemen, the new, the improved... P/I Generator!

You will need:

1 block Phlogiston.
1 red filter.
300 blocks of ice.
A chain of subspaces, precisely 299' deep.

Now, the recipe:

Place phlogiston.
Now, place one end of the subspace chain next to the phlogiston.
Place the red filter between the phlogiston and the filters.
Place all of the ice (converted to Ice-Ins already) in the subspace chain.
Place the other end above the first end, thus making a loop.

The result? 300 generators, each exposed to the phlogiston 1/round, each extracting 98 or 198 ebbs, resulting in about 50000 ebbs per round for a 2 cubic foot generator block. If you have a 10' cube, you can fill it with 500 of these things, giving you 25,000,000 ebbs (roughly).

About the best you are going to get with gravity...

[LordChaos13]

How are you getting Ice to not melt at 1000C?
Literally 1,000 degrees above the melting point

[Arcanist]

How are you getting Ice to not melt at 1000C?
Literally 1,000 degrees above the melting point

I assume that he is surrounding the ice cubes in Red Filters and letting the bubbles extend out of the the red cube.

EDIT: We only have a few more comments left in the thread (I think we have about 22 comments left. The max is 1,500 right?) so there might be a few hours or days where we can't continue conversations like this, so If you'd like we can continue discussion on the Gramarie sub forum (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=152.0) on Min/Max board until Kellus post the new thread here.

[LordChaos13]

That makes sense and what I would do, but since it wasnt specified I was asking which he did (Red Filter or raise its temp by 1K)

[Amechra]

Yep, surround the ice with Red-Filters.

The nice thing is that this thing is far more portable than my last design.

[Arcanist]

That makes sense and what I would do, but since it wasnt specified I was asking which he did (Red Filter or raise its temp by 1K)

Well, I'm still thinking about using the power of a sun to solve my problems... Still waiting on that HUER/TGGD hybrid to make it possible... HMM! I might make it myself since Kellus stated that the Asternomist would be the last PrC released for a while. I'll get started when the new thread goes up :smallsigh:

[popmicpop]

Brainflash!

I was looking at power generation all wrong.

I was trying to get around the limit on how many ebbs can be transferred through a net each round by making two points of motion (drop Ice-Ins, and drop Phlogiston.)

Then I realized that dropping Ice-Ins was all I needed.


What are you doing about the fact that they have to touch wooden transformers to enter ebbs into a circuit?

What you could do is leave a 1' space between the phlogiston and a wooden transformer, putting the output side of the ice transformer facing the wooden one. When it falls through the gap it will absorb the energy an instantly give it to the wooden transformer. This would also allow you to skip any needlessly large heuristic bubbles.

[Omnicrat]

I'm sorry, how is having 300 layers of transformers fall past one piece of Phlogiston better than having one piece of phogiston fall past 300 layers of transformers? :smallconfused:

[Amechra]

Consumes less space.

And you can use a Heuristic net to pass the ebbs on; in fact, get a buddy to do it with that option that lets you make a connection that gets a 10% boost on the ebbs produced.

[Omnicrat]

How does it consume less space?

[Amechra]

The current "build" gets down to two cubic feet, due to the ability to shove the falling Ice-Ins in a chain of subspaces.

Sorry, I need to amend my earlier statement: it doesn't necessarily take up more space to have the phlogiston fall; it just takes a lot more hassle (consider the fact that you need 300 points of "contact" with the falling phlogiston, and only 1 if you have the Ice-Ins falling.)

Is anyone else not getting what I'm saying? I feel like I'm explaining it poorly...

[Omnicrat]

Wait, are you trying to make this work with one wood transformer? Because that doesn't work. At least not easily. How big is your circuit bubble?

[popmicpop]

Im trying to make this work with 1 wood transformer, and there's no maximum amount of ebbs it can transfer into a circuit in one round.


If you keep the ice transformers still, then there would have to be a whole bunch of wood transformers, and the bubble would have to extend into a bunch of semi spaces to access each one

[Qwertystop]

You could make the wood one falling on the other side of the ice from the phlebotnium, in synch. You only need it there when the heat source is on the other side.

[popmicpop]

but then you would still need a giant heuristic bubble

[Qwertystop]

but then you would still need a giant heuristic bubble
Or just glue a battery of some kind to the falling wood, and put a small bubble somewhere that the battery will fall through once per cycle to send the power out.

Or make one wood transformer that's a very long, very thin stick, that touches all of the ice and has one end in a small bubble.

[Omnicrat]

Don't pieces of a circuit have to be hooked up to the circuit? If a transformer falls through it, wouldn't it no longer be part of that circuit?

[Quester]

but then you would still need a giant heuristic bubble

You could always daisy chain heuristic bubbles together. It would take a fraction of the time to make one large heuristic bubble, you would lose the ability to make logical decisions for the transformers but would still be able to channel puissance


Im trying to make this work with 1 wood transformer, and there's no maximum amount of ebbs it can transfer into a circuit in one round.


If you keep the ice transformers still, then there would have to be a whole bunch of wood transformers, and the bubble would have to extend into a bunch of semi spaces to access each one

I'm pretty sure wooden transformers have the same ebb limitations as any transformer.

[Qwertystop]

once something leaves the bubble the circuit falls apart completely,

Fine, use the second option.

[popmicpop]

I know it would be possible to make it so that only the phlogiston falls, but it would just be easier with this many heat transformers to have the ice fall

[popmicpop]

I'm pretty sure wooden transformers have the same ebb limitations as any transformer.



Ya, I didn't see that earlier, easily fixable, just make a bunch of really long and thin wooden transformers, and put the thin ends together into a square foot and it should be evenly distributed among them

[Necroticplague]

At risk of making things require higher levels to function, but be simpler overall, if you had a friendly HEOY specialist, you could use lightning pools with the water divied up so you don't have to worry about space, since you can have 99 different set ups, with just one glass allowing your ship to draw from the pool's pool of puissance.Combine with power ribbons to solve problems of bubble allocation, and you can drastically shrink the ship itself (just have a ribbon running to the pool, then other ribbons running to all your generators).

[Kellus]

Hey to anybody that ends up at this thread, there's a continuation of discussion of this material over on this new thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291019)! Come check it out!

To the moderators: I guess you can go ahead and close this now.

Fare thee well, good thread. :smallfrown:

[Lore232]

Eager to see your revamp for the class :smallsmile:

MASSIVE EDIT:

Since it has become apparent that the Min/Max forum will not be back up for a while I matter as well post some fixes that I figured for the Chrononaut a while back, but never got to implement. Tell me your thoughts :smallsmile:

Yes, I was inspired to do this by the guy above me, now shush!


The Chrononaut

"Time is money... Actually Time is the non-spatial continuum in which events occur linearly usually in the direction of increasing entropy"

http://th08.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/322/8/d/time_traveler_for_ifx_by_jessibeans-d5lfq6d.jpg
image credit JessiBeans (http://jessibeans.deviantart.com/) of deviantart.com

The Chrononaut are explorers first and foremost who explore not just singular locations in the multiverse, but multiple moments in that same multiverse. Most people spend their entire lives trying to find a Chrononaut only to never encounter one, however on rare occasions they select a very lucky person to travel with them throughout time and space.

Requirements: To become a Chrononaut you must meet all of the following requirements.
Gramarie: Polarcane Geometry and Any 1 YGGD & Atypical Ballistics any 1 ELDK Principles
Skills: Concentration 13 ranks, Forgery 13 ranks
Specialization: Must be specialized in Yggdratecture or Eldrikinetics

Hit Die: d4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifer

Class Skills: A Chrononaut's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (architecture and engineering) (Int), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (the Planes) (Int), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

The Chrononaut
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Principles|Bonus Principles

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Yggdrakinetic Applications, Journey (Seconds)|+0|+1|

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|Journey (Hours), ETT (Heal)|+1|+1|

3rd|
+1|
+3|
+1|
+3|Journey (Days), ETT (Open Locks)|+2|+1|

4th|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|Journey (Months), ETT (Gramarie), Doctorate principles|+3|+2|

5th|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|Journey (Years), ETT (Fantastic!), Temporal Casualty|+4|+3|[/table]

All of the following are class features of the Chrononaut.

Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: As a Chrononaut, you gain no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

Yggdrakinetic Application: A Chononaut specializes in the transportation of objects and people across time and space, through the combined applications of Yggdratecture Semi-spaces and Eldrikinetic Engines. Upon entering this prestige class you are treated as if you specialized in both Yggdratecture and Eldrikinetics disciplines, can select specialist and doctorate level principles from either of these disciplines. In addition to this, at 1st, 4th and 5th level you gain access to one bonus principle that must be spent on either an Eldrikinetic or Yggdratecture principle.


At 1st level you may select between Incongruous Pathways or Unnatural Propulsion.
At 4th level you may select between Uncanny Cosmology or Strange Locomotion.
At 5th level you may select between Abstruse Causality or Immaterial Travel.


Journey (Su): A Chrononaut's particular research into Eldrikinetic Engines and Yggratecture Semi-space finally enlightens them to discover a cheap and effective method of travel to anywhere... or when...


At 1st level, you discover an interesting feature of Polarcane Geometry gaining access to the Time Flux
Time:This kind of Flux has a different flow of time then normal proportional to the amount of Push traveling or generated inside the Flux. By generating 100 Push inside a Time Flux you allow the contents of the bubble to exist 1 round/100 push into the future. This functions exactly like a Double Time Demiplane except in size. Living creatures cannot travel through a Time Flux. Push does not generate motion while inside a Time Flux.

At 2nd level, you discover the method for creating Time Rooms. By creating a Semi-space and then tethering a Time Flux inside of it you create a special Time Room that exist on a 4th dimensional plane of existance. This Time Room functions as a Time Flux, however it allows for living creatures and you may instead exert twice the amount of Push to travel through hours instead of rounds (1 hour/200 Push).
At 3rd level, you learn how to connect two different Time streams together through the Incongruous Pathways Principle. In addition to this you learn how to exert more control over a Time Flux. By supplying more Push to a Time Flux you can travel forwards by days instead of hours or rounds (1 day/300 Push). You may use any amount of Push generated to achieve travel to a specific point in time (For example: 300 Push, 200 of which would be used to travel forward by 1 hour and 100 of which will be used to travel 1 round).
At 4th level, you make an astounding discovery in the field of Yggdratecture and Eldrikinetic temporal applications, gaining a mastery over 4th dimensional perception. You are now able to travel backwards in time as well as forwards, however traveling backwards in time might create a Time Paradox at which point you are vulnerable to inducing the Blinovich Limitation Effect which states:


"The Universe does not allow Paradox, and will attempt to repair damage invoked by Paradoxes by any means necessary. Small changes to details can be executed with relative ease, thanks to faulty and fickle memory and records. Most often the Universe will adjust for the Paradox created through any number of means, most predominantly in causing another, less significant figure to step in and take that role to fulfill the event in question.

An example of this would be traveling back in time to assassinate an important figure before they become relevant. The Universe would simply create a double of that person continuously until that person fulfills there fate.

Creating a Predestination Paradox (such as meeting yourself in the past and giving yourself foreknowledge or any attempt to do so) is also against the Universes wishes as well. As such, the parties meeting will invariable forget there entire meeting and all traces of said meeting will vanish immediately thereafter. However, traveling back in time as you are about to die to show your past self your dead body is acceptable as no detailed information is granted from either party beyond the fact that you are about to die.

In addition to this new found access to the entirety of Time you discover methods of enhancing your Time Fluxes. You may now now travel to Months in addition to Days, Hours and Rounds by supplying a greater amount of Push (400Push/Month).


At 5th level you possess a complete Mastery of Time. Whenever you are in a Time Flux that is inside a Semi-Space that is Tether to an object of your bulk rating or greater. You may connect a Planejumping Engine if you have access to the Immaterial Travel Principle. In addition to functioning as a standard Planejumping Engine you may also have it replicate the effects of a Greater Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportGreater.htm) at the same cost. Also, by supplying an extreme amount of push into a Time Flux, you can travel years in addition to Months, Days, Hours, and Rounds (500/Push/Year).

ETT (Emergency Temporal Tools) (Su): You have developed a number of tools that assist you in your explorations of Time. At 2nd level you may take 10 on any heal check to stabilize a dying character as a Full-Round action. At 3rd level you may replicate a Knock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/knock.htm) or an Arcane Lock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/arcaneLock.htm) spell on any door within 30ft of you as a full round action without any material components. At 4th level you may destabilize any gramarie within 30ft of you as a full-round action for 5 rounds, the gramarie is treated as if it were in an Anti-magic field for the duration of this effect. At 5th level you may use any of the previous abilities as a standard action instead.

Temporal Causality (Ex): At 5th level your constant exposure to Push and the Time Fluxes effects have altered your genetic structure. You no longer age and are immune to the penalties of aging. In addition to this, you gain a special trait that allows you to overcome death. Once per day if you are reduced to 0 or below HP you may subject yourself to a special type of Reincarnation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htm). You are reincarnated as your own race with an entirely new appearance. You lose no level, no XP, no Constitution as per the normal Reincarnation spell. Performing this takes 1 minute to complete during which you are at your most vulnerable and are considered Helpless (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#helpless) until the process is complete. After this process is complete you take a -5 to all rolls involving Strength, Dexterity and Constitution for 24 hours after reincarnating.

Credit: My Uncle for sitting me in front of old reruns of the classic Doctor Who when I was growing up, Kellus for this wondrous piece of homebrew, Sirpercival for giving me a better idea of how to manage Time Paradoxes.

I now leave you with a quote from I'm sure most of you already stating out your Chrononaut are thinking about:


"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff."
Thinking back, I probably should have used that for the quote for this class!

I think this one is missing to (just checking:smallbiggrin:)

[Hovannes]

Your introduction is brilliant and I agree with most of it. I am surprised, for a 25 year old you a great deal of wisdom. I came to that same conclusion about 10 years ago, and I was 38 then. Today originality is a fleeting commodity and most gaming systems get worse with each new version because the people who write them ‘don’t get it’. Adding a few colorful pictures, giving a class a bunch of bonuses, or a creative description will not cure the real problem.

D&D type games have one main flaw, they are level based. It took me a long time to let go of this core fundamental aspect – I really loved the gaming system, heck it started the RPG craze.

Without levels you lose, a mountain of Hit Points, which always accumulate as you increase in level. I have noticed that most players become less cautious, less disciplined, and more arrogant as the number of hit points go up. “Ok, throw that fireball, I got enough HPS to handle it, and I will reach you with my +5 sword the following round.” Anyway, I digress.

Ok then, what replaces the accumulation of HPS to gauge the power level of a character? – smarter and more experienced players (not in game characters – PCs). To the PC we can add, better equipment, more allies, and if the GMs is running a good game world/campaign, recognition for deeds accomplished in game.

Death, even of a fantasy character, has to have meaning. Only luck can change the outcome between two mismatched (read as levels) characters, where the amount of luck needed increases based on the disparity between ability increases. In cases where characters are more evenly matched, skill (both as a PC and as player controlling the character) often determines the outcome. Yes, luck still helps, but defeating an opponent without luck is worth much more to the character’s (and player’s ) self esteem.

Well, I could go on and on, but I have already put these thought to work in a gaming system I have designed. If you agree with this post, have a look and see what you think.

Point System Fantasy (https://sites.google.com/site/pointsystemgaming/home) – focuses on open-ended character development. It’s not level based and allows players to build characters they want to play, not ‘cookie-cutter’ classes or prestige classes that are build on failed concepts.

I invite your comments.

Hovannes