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aphoticConniver
2012-08-15, 08:16 PM
I'm trying to build a character at 10th level, full access to WBL for an evil campaign with the following stats:

10 Str
11 Con
16 Dex
12 Int
16 Wis
24 Cha

Now, I'd like to stay out of combat, as obvious, but what class other than Sorcerer would be both fun to play, and helpful to a party? Also, are there any variants of a Bard that would make it more heavy-metal/focused on intimidation and debuffing?

ShadowPsyker
2012-08-15, 09:09 PM
Warlock would be the obvious third choice since they have at-will abilities; you can use them whenever you want, not having to worry about how many uses you have left (making play much more about fun and less about resource management).
Wilder though has a lot of front-loaded power, and Psi-feats are always fun.

If you want a more heavy metal Bard; Battle caster feat & medium proficiency (Adamantine breastplate?). Plus Daunting presence and/or Kiai shout (at 12th level you can take greater Kiai shout and instead panic them:smallsmile:). Note: if you use Daunting presence first, Kiai shout can then frighten them. Also inspire awe ACF from dragon magic can affect any given target once per 24 hours.

Twilightwyrm
2012-08-16, 03:23 AM
So, absurdly high charisma eh? Alright then, I'll add a few options that have not been addressed. It should be noted however that many of these classes aren't specifically geared towards support role in the party (unless you count artillery as a "support" role), but will all generally help the party in their own role:

Warmage (Complete Arcane- Similar, but with less effect spells, and more direct damage.

Shugenja (Complete Divine)- Charisma, elemental based divine caster. Get in god with the Efreetis and good things can happen for you. Speaking of which...

Sha'ir (Dragon Compendium)- This class is a charisma based spontaneous caster, not dissimilar to a sorcerer, with the notable exception of having far more spells per day (if not quite as many higher level slots), a much larger spell selection (sor/wiz plus access to the spells from the Air, Chaos, Earth, Fire, Knowledge, Law, Luck, Sun and Water domain spell list) having the ability to call genies, and eventually travel the elemental planes at will. Going evil with this will let you basically be Jaffar from Aladdin, but with far more power and far less incompetence. Want the power of a sorcerer, while also having the power of class features? This is the class for you.

Beguiler (Player's Handbook II)- If you could somehow swap that Wisdom with that Intelligence, this would become a viable option. While most of your options are mind-effecting or illusion magic (which can become slightly problematic later on), there are a number of methods of getting around this, and this class will truly benefit from the massively boosted DCs. Note: Bards would also appreciate that Intelligence and Wisdom, but it is not strictly necessary.

Dread Necromancer (Heroes of Horror)- If you really like playing necromancers. Your low constitution won't matter as much when you become a lich, but your spell list is more restricted than either the Beguiler or Warmage, so you had best really like necromancy.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2012-08-16, 05:57 AM
Desert Half-Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertHalfOrcs), use the Half-Humans variant on page 150 of Races of Destiny to be a Humanoid (Human) instead of Humanoid (Orc), thus qualifying for human-only feats rather than orc-only feats.

Add on the Necropolitan template from Libris Mortis if you can do it without losing a level. Gaining it during play does cost a level, but gaining it prior to the start of play on a higher level character you would have had time to catch back up to the party level. Say you were made on by a Dread Necromancer 8+ who had the entire Corpsecrafter line of feats and in the area of a Desecrate spell with an evil altar present, for +6 HP/level, +4 Str and Dex, +4 initiative, +10 ft. movement, +2 natural armor, +4 turn resistance, etc.

Your build should go (Savage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantSavageBard) ) Bard 8/ Nightmare Spinner 1/ Dread Witch 1/ Sublime Chord 2/ Dread Witch 4/ Nightmare Spinner 4. Swap Inspire Courage for Inspire Awe from Dragon Magic, trade Bardic Knowledge for Bardic Knack in PH2, and replace Countersong with Spellbreaker Song from CM. Every prestige class level after Sublime Chord should advance your Sublime Chord casting, of course.

Take two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm), I'd recommend Bravado from Dragon 328 (can't gain Dodge bonuses to AC, can't use the withdraw action) and City Slicker in Dragon 324 (-4 to Handle Animal, Kn: Nature, and Survival checks). Your feats should be Dreadful Wrath (PGtF), Melodic Casting (CM), Fell Frighten Spell (LM), Obtain Familiar (CA), Haunting Melody (ECS), and Improved Familiar (CW). Also say he visited the Otyugh Hole detailed in Complete Scoundrel to get Menacing Demeanor for 3,000 gp instead of spending a feat on it. Future feats should include Lifesense (LM) and whatever else you want to get.

Skills, other than prerequisites, should include max ranks in Intimidate, Perform, and Use Magic Device. Definitely get as many skill tricks (CS) as possible, especially Never Outnumbered and Back On Your Feet. Your familiar is a Krenshar, its Scare DC will increase based on your level (10 + 1/2 HD + Cha bonus), and it can make Intimidate checks using your skill ranks.

Get a custom Runestaff (MIC p224) with whatever spells you want on it, you can UMD it at DC 21 to use it as though they were on your own class spell list. Good choices would include Web, Bands of Steel, Black Tentacles, Rope Trick, Command Undead, Kelpstrand, Briar Web, Entangle, etc. You can also include long duration buffs that you don't expect to cast more than once each day to save spells known, such as Greater Resistance, or highly situational spells like Mass Resist Energy and Life Ward.

Get a +1 Mithral Breastplate with the Fearsome property (DotU, +5,000 gp), a Circlet of Rapid Casting (MIC, 15,000 gp), a Mask of the Matriarch (DotU, 9,000 gp), and a Shadow Cloak (DotU, 5,500 gp). Also get some wands of useful low level spells that you can UMD like Web and Inflict Light Wounds (to heal yourself).

You should probably have a pretty good idea of what this character does. Keep in mind that per the Rules Compendium page 53 regarding escalating fear effects, "When such multiple exposures occur, the worst stage of fear lasts until the duration of all the effects causing the fear expire." So your Dreadful Wrath feat causes opponents to save or become Shaken (no action). You can activate Inspire Awe plus Haunting Melody to force opponents to save versus two separate Shaken conditions (standard action). You can use the Demoralize action plus Never Outnumbered once per encounter to cause every opponent within ten feet to become Shaken (move action). You can cast a Fell Frighten Sound Burst to cause anyone who takes damage to be automatically Shaken (standard action, or swift with the circlet). You have many other abilities which inflict a Shaken condition on opponents, plus your Krenshar familiar can activate its racial Scare ability and then use intimidate to demoralize opponents as well. A Shaken opponent who would become Shaken is instead Frightened, a Frightened opponent who would become Shaken is instead Panicked, and a Panicked creature who is prevented from fleeing such as by Web or Entangle or Kelpstrand will instead Cower for the duration of the fear or until they can escape. You can buff your party with spells like Haste, crowd control opponents, and be generally useful otherwise. Most of your actions in combat should probably be spent casting spells or demoralizing opponents (two per round as a move action).

aphoticConniver
2012-08-16, 12:37 PM
Alright, so I absolutely love the idea of a Dread Necromancer. What sort of feats are recommended if I wanted to go with the undead controlling aspect? I'm at level 10 as a Human with the Necropolitan template.

Nabirius
2012-08-16, 02:28 PM
Shadowcaster from Tome of Magic, its the red-headed stepchild of the casters but it can be fun

Silva Stormrage
2012-08-16, 02:46 PM
Might I suggest attempting to get into the walker in the waste prestige class? You DO lose caster levels but you also gain the dry lich template for free which gives you charisma to HP as if it was your con score and d12 HD. That would dramatically increase your HP.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2012-08-16, 07:35 PM
Alright, so I absolutely love the idea of a Dread Necromancer. What sort of feats are recommended if I wanted to go with the undead controlling aspect? I'm at level 10 as a Human with the Necropolitan template.

Say you were made into a Necropolitan by another Dread Necromancer 8+ who had the entire Corpsecrafter line of feats (LM) and in the area of a Desecrate spell with an evil altar present, for +6 HP/level, +4 Str and Dex, +4 initiative, +10 ft. movement, +2 natural armor, +4 turn resistance, etc.

Get the feat Magical Training (PGtF), which gives you a spellbook into which you've already scribed several spells, so logically you should be able to add more spells to it just as a Wizard does. Get the feat Versatile Spellcaster (RotD), which allows you to spend two spell slots of equal level to cast any spell you know of one level higher, which would include any spells you've added to that spellbook.

Consider picking up Improved Unarmed Strike and Ascetic Mage (CV), which with a Monk's Belt will add your Cha bonus to your unarmored AC. You can use the above trick to cast (Extended) Greater Mage Armor every day, for a naked AC 27, or 31 with the Corpsecrafter creator tricks. See if your DM will let you get Improved Unarmed Strike instead of the Dread Necro's martial weapon proficiency.

Start out with some undead minions you've created, rebuked, and use the Command Undead spell to control. Also start with a decent stash of monster skeletons to animate later. Get the spell Awaken Undead (SpC) via Advanced Learning at level 12 to restore your minions' extraordinary special attacks and qualities. Such creatures should include skeletons of Cave Trolls (MM3), Arrow Demons (MM3), Razor Boars (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/razorBoar.htm) (MM2), and whatever else you can find that gets tons of amazing special attacks/qualities. Note that undead can't regain any Regeneration abilities, but Fast Healing works just fine. Damage Reduction for metal types and DR/- are extraordinary abilities, as is SR.

Get the spell Haunt Shift (LM) via Magical Training described above, and start out with a Slaymage (LM) which you're controlling via Rebuke Undead. Use Haunt Shift to transform it into a haunting presence, and have it occupy a mundane necklace that it wore when it was alive. You can wear it and benefit from its Pale Aura without any risk that the creature can be destroyed or even targeted. Pick up some metamagic feats, Split Ray is especially useful.

Check out the Mass Inflict and Mass Cure spells, instead of affecting all targets within an area you get to declare a certain number of targets, which means you could declare the same creature as a target multiple times. For example, a Mass Inflict Light Wounds will do 1d8+10 at your current level, but note it cannot go over Xd8+25. So targeting an undead minion once will heal it for 1d8+10, targeting yourself twice heals you for 2d8+20, targeting an opponent three times deals 3d8+25, and targeting another opponent four times deals 4d8+25, Will for half in both cases.

Pick up the feat Reserves of Strength (DCS), which allows you to increase your caster level by +1 to +3, and normally stuns you for an equal number of rounds. Since you're undead and immune to stunning, it instead deals 1d6, 3d6, or 5d6 damage to you for using it. An added benefit of this feat is that it removes variable limits from any spell you cast using this feat, so no more maximum +25. At your current level you can Reserves of Strength +3 a Mass Inflict Light Wounds, target yourself once to heal that damage, and target an opponent twelve times to deal 12d8+156. Reserves of Strength requires Iron Will, but you can say you visited the Otyugh Hole in Complete Scoundrel and pay 3,000 gp for that instead of spending a feat on it.