Simple guidelines for playing

[Balor01]

Ok, guys, I need your help. I am a rather skilled DM and have a lot of experience with playing monsters. I am currently starting to play with a group of new players who have just about miserabel grasp of how combat works (not the rules, but tactics) and results are ... miserable.

The first encounter we had was like this(they are lvl 4): they were in a swamp and monsters were spitting acid at them. (took black dragon, but reshaped it into some swampdwelling ooga-booga with black dragon stats).
Aaanyway - they did have a tad of bad luck, but eventually this happened: Attackers spit acid, PCs ready actions. PCs exhaust their' spells. PCs slowly die due to inaction. Barbarian for example just stood there, waiting for a monster to get to him, while rogue and ranger pew-pewed(bow, crossbow) with ready actions, while they hoped for a cleric to "lock down" targets with Hold person. I allowed the spells the possibility to works since attackers were SORT OF humanoids, but after attackers passed their saves, they had to "tactically retreat" or I'd have a TPK.

So. I would really like to present my players (to top it off, they changed cleric for bard) with a set of short, simple rules of combat.

Something like:

Barbarian:
- rage, charge, hit things
- count on others to heal you (he actually brought potions of CMW)
- try to do melee damage, do not go for bows, try to reach your target with that sword of yours and Fast movement if it is on the ground.

Could playground please help me with such three-step-guides for these guys? They now play: barbarian, rogue, ranger and bard. Do not suggest any special feats or stuff, its mostly improved initative, weapon finesse, power attack here. As it turned out, cleric was a real problem for former Cleric player, so he is now bard.

As for equiptment, I thought to suggest them rods. Not very expencive and those 50 charges are pretty cool.

They are meeting and old adventurer next session and I would like to give them some good advice :D I am not really familiar with PC classes, so I ask you guys.

Keep it short, three-part advice.

Thanks.

[Zarndelius]

With new players, I typically don't ask them what class they want to play, but ask them what they want to do. From there I help them build a PC that is in tuned in what they wish to do in or out of battle.

If the Barbarian is using a bow an arrow, and that's what he enjoys, just have'em roll a Ranger or something instead.

[Medic!]

Player groups are like PC Parties...you adventure with a set of fellas for a while and get used to them, and forget what it was like when they were all fledgling dungeon-delvers.

I'd say give them some time, let them become more familiar with the system. Maybe have them stumble into an active fight between NPCs and some monsters and show an impressive amount of teamwork, cooperation, and tactical action on the part of the NPCs as a sneaky example.

Over-all, I think it was the DMG2 that said "Remember, you are there as a facilitator, not a dictator." (Don't take dictator as a slur in this instance!) Could they do better? Sure! Are they having fun? Yup! Is it all good? Dang skippy it is!

If you're a MASH fan (I know I am!) it's like when Radar left and Klinger replaced him as company clerk.

Of course in the mean time, you have to make sure they aren't making you pull your hair out while you're waiting for them to hit their stride :smallwink:

EDIT: @ Zarn - 100% right on, I do the same (especially for the 10yr old at our table)

[00dlez]

I've run boot camp type sessions before to help new players with rules/mechanics/pacing in combat.

In a series of gladiator fights (against captured monsters, orcs, etc) in an elaborate, possibly magic area that changes each fight.

Sometimes there are pits of water to bull rush enemies (or PCs into), narrow corridors to learn about 5' steps and AoO's, etc etc.

Or, just give them a few softball encounters to explore more "crazy" techniques like grappling.

From your description, it seems they aren't really sure how to react to combat - unwilling to dive into a melee fray and unsure how to go about stabbing folks point blank in the face. With a few successful goblin stomps, maybe they won't be so hesitatant to go toe-to-toe with monsters, and as you increase the combat difficulty, they will be better at adapting te strategies that they know work to face the tougher opponents.

It might be boring for you (and maybe them after a while) but you can't have them running off to fight dragons and mind flayers when the barbarian has said "I use a d12 plus strength to attack, right?" once already that session.

[Balor01]

Allrighty:

@Zarndelius
They like the classes, just need to learn how to use them. Problem is barbarian goes "oh, that target is 60 feet away, I better hurl my javelins".

@Medic!
As it turned out in-despite the disastrous first encounter, they are having lots of fun.

Also thanks to 00dlez, but I'd still appreciate some general metagame advice for these guys.

[killianh]

I find a good way of sneaking an example of the class in is to have a session of oddball encounters that test what a particular class is capable of.

[only1doug]

Simple rules of Play:

Direct your strengths against the enemies weaknessess: Know what your character is good at and bad at, when in situations where you are weak look for ways to use your strengths.

Prioritise your targets: you may face a selection of various monsters, pick which one to kill first.
Glass cannon: A caster (wizard, sorcerer etc) is known as a "glass cannon", they can do a lot of damage but can't take much themselves. Protect your glass cannon's and shatter your enemies glass cannon's.
Big bruiser: Melee combat monster types that hit for a lot and can take a lot but might be slower to move, try to outmanuever these and whittle them down from range rather than engaging in melee.
Hordes of minions: Lots of less effective creatures, less likely to hit and small damage from each but plenty of them, keep them away from your glass cannon. there are two tactics either kill em all quick or ignore them and concentrate on the big bruisers / glass cannons then mop them up afterward.
Ranged attacker: This type of enemy is great at hitting you from a distance, unless you are better at this than they are your best choice is to get closer and melee.

Terrain: pick your fight carefully, sometime its better to back off and let the enemy come to you on terrain you'd prefer instead of blundering in to their home ground. ask yourself "do we need to fight here?" if you have to then do, commit to the fight

Kill your Enemies: a damaged monster does just as much damage as a unwounded one, concentrate on killing one instead of wounding several.

[Slipperychicken]

I second running a "tutorial" session, with no relevance to the plot, so they PCs can be free to screw around. I had one when I was starting out, and it really helped understand how combat and general play worked.

[nedz]

I think that they have to pick this up for themselves.

There is no reason why you shouldn't give them a few examples.

You could try throwing a few low level orc barbarians at them.
These should charge at the squishes to encourage the Barbarian PC to charge them back.

Or go for the old bunch of goblin archers.

They need to acquire the habit of working out tactics for themselves or they will always expect to be spoon fed. At the end of the day this is a more useful skill that no amount of Sun Tzu is going to give them.