Raise your Stats through hard work!

[silverwolfer]

So, If we gave a wizard, some weights and told him to go lift weights for 2 months, could we make a weapon focused barbell's?

[Zerter]

That's not something that governs the D&D world, just like it's normal that you see better and become more attractive as you age.

[Psyren]

could we make a weapon focused barbell's?

....A what? I have no idea what you're asking.

[Sgt. Cookie]

That's not something that governs the D&D world, just like it's normal that you see better and become more attractive as you age.

:smallsigh:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Stephen_Fry_cropped.jpg/220px-Stephen_Fry_cropped.jpg

Charisma and appearance are not intrinsically linked.

[jaybird]

Charisma and appearance are not intrinsically linked.

It's one of the governing factors. Social skills are based off Cha, and I'm pretty sure there have been studies proving that more attractive people do better in social situations.

[silverwolfer]

funny how folks think am serious

[Sheogoroth]

I like that.
I had a game in which our ranger got dragged down a pit by a hoard of spiders and we joked about him developing arachnophobia.
He added it to his character sheet and now he takes a -1 on morale penalty to hit spiders.
In the long term it's not something that will make much difference, but it's fun, funny, and helps you develop your character.

[Eldan]

funny how folks think am serious

I think at least some people, me included, just don't understand a word you say most of the time.

[silverwolfer]

:( blame 4chan

[Slipperychicken]

Most games don't go on long enough to reflect this kind of change.


You could allow a limited stat-retraining to reflect this, albeit only as part of truly brutal training that lasts many years (you're not re-specialising, but changing the most basic elements of who you are). Figure out the point-buy of the character's base stats, then re-allocate them, but you can only modify any given ability score up to 2 points higher or lower -Training can only go so far.

[Siosilvar]

I can't parse the sentence in the OP, so I'll answer the title instead.

D&D already has a method to raise your stats through hard work, provided you gain at least four levels with such work.

[lord pringle]

:smallsigh:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Stephen_Fry_cropped.jpg/220px-Stephen_Fry_cropped.jpg

Charisma and appearance are not intrinsically linked.

I would have used a picture of Winston Churchill.

[Sheogoroth]

I would have used a picture of Winston Churchill.
http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2012/06/morgan-freeman-god.jpg
Since we're on the subject...

[Eldan]

The question is, where these people any less charismatic when they were younger?

[Sheogoroth]

That's difficult.
Morgan Freeman didn't act much until his 50s.

Bruce Willis is the best example of Charisma increasing drastically with age that I can find. Don't get me wrong, he's great in Die Hard, but comparing his performance in that to Moonrise Kingdom...

[Coidzor]

funny how folks think am serious

If you're not serious, why did you post it? More to the point, how can we tell if you're serious if we can't decipher what the heck you were talking about for a significant part of your post?

If it was a joke, then we need to be able to understand you in order to appreciate the humor.

[Eldan]

Maybe he's Dadaist.

[Slipperychicken]

Maybe he's Dadaist.


This might explain so much about a number of posts I've seen.

[silverwolfer]

you make me sound so.....useless

[Boci]

:smallsigh:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Stephen_Fry_cropped.jpg/220px-Stephen_Fry_cropped.jpg

Charisma and appearance are not intrinsically linked.

It is by RAW. Physical attractiveness is one of the things charisma represents. Silly WotC.

[Spuddles]

It is by RAW. Physical attractiveness is one of the things charisma represents. Silly WotC.

1 of the things but not all the things. What's so hard to understand about necessary and sufficient conditions?

[kitcik]

you make me sound so.....useless

Actually, it's not him...

[JoeYounger]

Can you guys quit being ***** to Silverwolfer?

We get it, his posts are sometimes hard to read. We have rules on this forum against being ass holes.

[lsfreak]

We get it, his posts are sometimes hard to read. We have rules on this forum against being ass holes.

Funnily enough, there are also forum rules against incomprehensible posts.

I'm wondering what the OP intended if it was, by their own admission, meant as a joke thread, while appearing like a serious one. "Trolling" (I can't come up with a better word, but not the malicious kind defined in the forum rules) can't be a good way to make friends in a forum that's dominated by well-thought-out, articulate and respectful posts.

[Zombimode]

Can you guys quit being ***** to Silverwolfer?

We get it, his posts are sometimes hard to read. We have rules on this forum against being ass holes.

Seeing that he makes no effort to clarify himself, he comes of a bit like someone with Regeneration as a racial trait.

[Slipperychicken]

Can you guys quit being ***** to Silverwolfer?

We get it, his posts are sometimes hard to read. We have rules on this forum against being ass holes.

I was mostly talking in general. Sorry about that, Silver. There are a lot of times where I'll scan a paragraph, realize that I have no idea what it said, then just give up and skip it (I am literate, and read at a much higher level than average for my age. I rarely get below a 90 in advanced-placement English classes). It's kind of like when someone speaks a different dialect of the same language; you feel like you should understand it, but it just doesn't happen. Thankfully, asking people to repeat themselves is a lot easier in real life.

[Coidzor]

Funnily enough, there are also forum rules against incomprehensible posts.

I'm wondering what the OP intended if it was, by their own admission, meant as a joke thread, while appearing like a serious one. "Trolling" (I can't come up with a better word, but not the malicious kind defined in the forum rules) can't be a good way to make friends in a forum that's dominated by well-thought-out, articulate and respectful posts.

Or at least makes a fair effort at trying to be such a thing. We can't really do more than ask him to clarify when we have difficulty understanding him, which is largely what I've seen in this thread. Mostly...

[silverwolfer]

Posting while under the effects of a touch of stupidity, is against the rules yes.


A weak frail wizard, who spends two months lifting weights, should have their strength skill increase, and get a weapon focus with dumb bells.

[Malak'ai]

That's difficult.
Morgan Freeman didn't act much until his 50s.

Bruce Willis is the best example of Charisma increasing drastically with age that I can find. Don't get me wrong, he's great in Die Hard, but comparing his performance in that to Moonrise Kingdom...

How about is role in the tv series Moonlighting? Yeah ok, pretty bad series in terms of plot (typical early/mid 80's action/comedy tv show) but Willis was good.

EDIT: Or am I showing my age, remembering Moonlighting when it wasn't re-runs :smalleek:.

[maximus25]

It's one of the governing factors. Social skills are based off Cha, and I'm pretty sure there have been studies proving that more attractive people do better in social situations.

So, you're saying that they've proved that having high Cha (Attractive people) gives you a bonus to your social skills, based off Cha?

Not the Cha bonus itself, but another bonus on top of that based off your Cha?

Makes no sense at all.

[Serpentine]

It is by RAW. Physical attractiveness is one of the things charisma represents. Silly WotC.One of. Not the entirety of.
A weak frail wizard, who spends two months lifting weights, should have their strength skill increase, and get a weapon focus with dumb bells.Ah, that makes much more sense. Doesn't work, though: dumbells aren't a weapon, and the Wizard wasn't using them as a weapon. Might get them a small Strength bonus, or it might be a roleplay justification for assigning the level 5 ability point to Strength upon levelling up.
So, you're saying that they've proved that having high Cha (Attractive people) gives you a bonus to your social skills, based off Cha?

Not the Cha bonus itself, but another bonus on top of that based off your Cha?

Makes no sense at all.No, there is evidence that people tend to be significantly (but not necessarily a lot) nicer to and more trusting of (a substantial part of D&D's Charisma) people who are physically attractive (a small part of Charisma). If anything, I think I'd be inclined to decouple appearance from Charisma properly, and make it an incidental thing: people with a particularly attractive appearance tend to have higher Charisma than less attractive people not just directly due to the way they look, but because people tend to respond better to them, which is what is actually covered by Charisma.

[jaybird]

So, you're saying that they've proved that having high Cha (Attractive people) gives you a bonus to your social skills, based off Cha?

Not the Cha bonus itself, but another bonus on top of that based off your Cha?

Makes no sense at all.

No, I'm saying they've proved being attractive does, in fact, increase Cha. Read what I was responding to.

[Boci]

One of. Not the entirety of.


1 of the things but not all the things. What's so hard to understand about necessary and sufficient conditions?

Thanks for quoted me and repeating what I said. Did you think I didn't realize? I was responding to the claim that "Charisma and appearance are not intrinsically linked". In D&D, saying that is like saying "dexterity and reflexes are not intrinsically linked" because reflexes is also just one, not the entirety of the dexterity stat. (The whole list is measures hand-eye coordination, agility, reflexes, and balance.)

[Hyde]

Was it BoEF that had a table for determining how much your charisma was from physical attractiveness, or was it from something slightly more official and I just wish it was BoEF?

Edit: [for those curious, it was a d20 plus your Charisma mod, and I think you were free to pick anything lower than what you rolled]

[theMycon]

I always assumed that, with it being a largely full-time-active society, everyone was already at their "physical peak". Commoners spend 8 hours a day farming and have 10 as an average strength, after all.

[Reluctance]

Thing is, stats also atrophy if they're not used. A wizard who spends all his time at the gym is falling behind on his studies. I'd allow a rebuild given enough in-game time, but most players will have already spread their stats decently and won't want to sacrifice important stats for less important ones.

[Hyde]

Thing is, stats also atrophy if they're not used. A wizard who spends all his time at the gym is falling behind on his studies. I'd allow a rebuild given enough in-game time, but most players will have already spread their stats decently and won't want to sacrifice important stats for less important ones.

That's not necessarily true, he could have his spells on audiobook (well, an arcane facsimile thereof).

[Lonely Tylenol]

That's not necessarily true, he could have his spells on audiobook (well, an arcane facsimile thereof).

Permanent Magic Mouth that, when the password is spoken, relays the Wizard's entire spellbook (at the time of recording) and the knowledge necessary to finesse your way through its inner workings, repeatable infinitely, set on the inside of a pair of earmuffs?

Also, seconding the notion that raising stats through hard work is best reflected in level progression; the idea is that you as a character are more or less molded in the form you will take for much of your adult life, and (as we are in the real life) we are less malleable and more resistant to change now than when we were children. We are literally not capable of drastic changes (8 -> 16 STR) without the assistance of magic.

Remember also that CHA-based skills are CHA-based, but they are also SKILLS. An older person's CHA modifier being higher does not necessarily have to measure relative attractiveness over time; CHA can easily act as a measure of tact and guile, which are two things that take years of experience to get right (but govern nearly all social interactions, and their commensurate skills appropriately).

Thought experiment: How old, in years and in age categories, do you think the leaders of your country are, on average?

(In the U.S., this refers to all three branches of government, including all of both houses of Congress. In other countries, it means the elected or appointed head of government, plus any parliamentary or similar governing force beneath it. Apply as fits on a case-by-case basis.)

[gkathellar]

It's one of the governing factors. Social skills are based off Cha, and I'm pretty sure there have been studies proving that more attractive people do better in social situations.

Correlation ≠ Causation.

[Eldan]

Personally, my assumption is that people with high strength are those who also work out regularly. The fighter wit his STR 16 is likely putting a bit of time aside every day for his training regimen. On the other hand, the strength 7 wizard just doesn't have time for this.
If a player wants to play a wizard who uses barbells a lot, he can put a 13 into strength. I'm reluctant to hand out mechanical benefits for roleplaying. At best, I'd allow a wizard who, a few levels into his career, decides to take up training, to redistribute a few stat points.

By the way, barbells sound like the definition of an improvised weapon to me. Not a thing you get formal training with. If you really want to use one as a weapon, call it a reflavoured mace or something.