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Thalnawr
2012-08-16, 03:24 PM
I've been running a Savage Tide campaign for a while, and the group as a whole has decided to switch over to Pathfinder. Most of the other players are easy enough to figure out, but one is wanting to build up as an Arcane Archer. This is also his first tabletop group, so he's a complete rookie.

I've told them I'll help them build it up, so here I am, asking the Playground for help on this. The character is the group's skill-monkey/trap-monkey, so they want to keep that ability, no matter what.

Here's what we've got to work with:
A level 7 Elf character. 25 Point Buy, with 1 extra +1 to an ability score (can't be the same one as the first +1). The character can have up to 3 traits. The character must be Chaotic Good (so no Zen Archer Monk, sadly). The player also wants to get into Arcane Archer as quickly as possible, and the following books are in play: Core, UM, UC, APG, and Psionics Unleashed.

Anyhow, my idea was along the lines of a Trapper archetype Ranger, multi-classing into Wizard or Magus.

Thanks for any help provided.

Eldariel
2012-08-16, 04:18 PM
Ranger 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 3/Arcane Archer -> is usually my go-to Arcane Archer in PF (Wizard 6/EK 2 is equally viable).

Either way, entry through Eldritch Knight is the best compromise far as maintaining your casting and getting the BAB necessary in a reasonable schedule goes. You do lose two casting levels before AA already so you'll miss out on the best spells forever if you take more than 4 levels of Arcane ARcher, but that's not always a concern in not-so-cutthroat games (though never getting Time Stop as a Warrior Mage/Gish does suck).


The principal options are:
- Take 4 levels in Arcane Archer and then going back to progress Eldritch Knight. This ends up in Ranger 1/Wizard 6/Arcane Archer 4/Eldritch Knight 9 or Ranger 1/Wizard 5/Arcane Archer 4/Eldritch Knight 10; the latter is likely better thanks to the Eldritch Knight capstone.
- Take Arcane Archer to 7 or 10 and fill in with Eldritch Knight, forgoing the high level magic.

I prefer 4 levels of Arcane Archer since the elemental damage is really the most commonly impactful of the abilities you get before Holy (note that bows are 20/x3 crit weapons so Burst is hardly as impressive as you'd initially think, and Distance is kinda something you generally can carry special arrows for). And Seeker Arrow, Phase Arrow & Hail of Arrows are too rarely usable to really be impactful (not to mention they require Standard Action to use; Imbue Arrow in the meanwhile is good and wants you to maximize the number of caster levels you gain to cast the best spells into it).

Arrow of Death is decent but unfortunately Charisma-based (Sorcerers are a spell level behind of Wizards and have a more restricted spell list so they tend to maek for worse Gishes), and it's not really that different from spells you can cast anyways (Finger of Death for instance); sure, it can be fired in lieu of a volley but on the other hand you only ever have one and need a full day to replace it.


But yeah, basically, go all the way to level 10 for Holy/Axiomatic/etc. arrows and Arrow of Death and all that, or go back to Eldritch Knight on level 4. Eldritch Knight-path is probably stronger but either could work.

EDIT: And sadly, any warrior-based entry for Eldritch Knight is kind of eminently mediocre since while it does advance casting but not enough to make up for losing 6 caster levels to reach 6 BAB ASAP, and Imbue Arrow is just about the best ability of the class. Also, Greater Magic Weapon is really awesome and you want maximum caster level for that anyways.

3.5 has Practiced Spellcaster [Complete Arcane] to make up for caster levels lost for multiclassing (doesn't actually grant you spells or anything but improves spells' numeric variables), but I don't think PF has anything quite the same. However, if the 3.5 feat were feasible, that'd of course be perfect.

Thalnawr
2012-08-16, 04:28 PM
Well, the rest of the group is probably going to end up having the following characters: a Durkon wannabe cleric with the Travel and Protection domains, an Orc barbarian (if this guy's school schedule allows him to continue playing), a Magus, and a sword and board fighter (this player is the best at practical optimization though, so maybe he'll rethink his horrible choice before the switch).

Any particular recommendations on stat buy? Right now I've got him with 14 Str, 18 Dex, 12 Con, 16 Int, and 10 Cha (with 1 point left over). The 2 level-up points applied to Int and Dex, respectively. I'm trying to talk the guy into dumping Cha down some, but he doesn't want to...

Eldariel
2012-08-16, 04:37 PM
Well, the rest of the group is probably going to end up having the following characters: a Durkon wannabe cleric with the Travel and Protection domains, an Orc barbarian (if this guy's school schedule allows him to continue playing), a Magus, and a sword and board fighter (this player is the best at practical optimization though, so maybe he'll rethink his horrible choice before the switch).

Any particular recommendations on stat buy? Right now I've got him with 14 Str, 18 Dex, 12 Con, 16 Int, and 10 Cha (with 1 point left over). The 2 level-up points applied to Int and Dex, respectively. I'm trying to talk the guy into dumping Cha down some, but he doesn't want to...

The Con is a bit low but I guess in PF you might be able to make do especially since you've got classes with good Fort-saves. The Int is what I'd be most inclined to boost; it's really the spells that make a Wizard, even a hybrid, and for this party he'd need to take over the hard casting duty also since there's no real Wizard around (Magus definitely doesn't cut it). Though a Travel Domain Cleric can Teleport which does help, but still.

So yeah, I'd say 14 Str is fine, 18 Dex is fine, 12 Con is passable, 16 Int is mebbe a bit low and that's it. Before he gets the Arcane Archer/Eldritch Archer going he's gonna be a bit behind on BAB so he'll probably want to cast actual combat spells a tad before he gets few levels (really, these hybrid builds kick in around level 9-10). I think he'll also want to level his Int with his level-ups in spite of being an Archer; that's just how Wizards roll.

Larpus
2012-08-16, 04:51 PM
Not necessarily better, but definitely doable and quite interesting on its own (while possibly even being easier on a newbie) is to go with Magus instead of any combination of Wizard and EK.

Sadly some of the Magus' strengths will go to waste (namely Spell Combat and Spellstrike) and don't think there's any archetype that fixes that, but still works pretty well and should also be very effective (possibly more than the other build) when not slinging spells left and right.

My 2 cents.

Thalnawr
2012-08-16, 04:54 PM
Hit points won't be as much of a problem for him, as they have triple maximum of their first level hit die, plus their con mod once, same as Star Wars Saga, and his first level will be ranger.

As far as feats, right now I've got him with the following:
1st Level) Point Blank Shot
2nd Level) Precise Shot (Wizard Bonus, using the Unearthed Arcana option where wizards gain Fighter Bonus feats in their bonus feat slots)
3rd Level) Focused Shot
5th Level) Weapon Focus (longbow)
6th Level) Deadly Aim (Wizard Bonus, see 2nd Level)
7th Level) Not really sure, he's got both a level-up feat and an EK feat, if we use the Ranger1/Wiz5/EK1 build for him...

Thalnawr
2012-08-16, 04:56 PM
Not necessarily better, but definitely doable and quite interesting on its own (while possibly even being easier on a newbie) is to go with Magus instead of any combination of Wizard and EK.

Sadly some of the Magus' strengths will go to waste (namely Spell Combat and Spellstrike) and don't think there's any archetype that fixes that, but still works pretty well and should also be very effective (possibly more than the other build) when not slinging spells left and right.

My 2 cents.
Actually, the Myrmidarch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/myrmidarch) archetype might allow him to preserve some of that functionality... Although, he still wants to squeeze in his trap-finding ability somehow, so Trapper archetype Ranger 1/Myrmidarch 6 could be a viable alternative.

Eldariel
2012-08-16, 05:16 PM
Hit points won't be as much of a problem for him, as they have triple maximum of their first level hit die, plus their con mod once, same as Star Wars Saga, and his first level will be ranger.

As far as feats, right now I've got him with the following:
1st Level) Point Blank Shot
2nd Level) Precise Shot (Wizard Bonus, using the Unearthed Arcana option where wizards gain Fighter Bonus feats in their bonus feat slots)
3rd Level) Focused Shot
5th Level) Weapon Focus (longbow)
6th Level) Deadly Aim (Wizard Bonus, see 2nd Level)
7th Level) Not really sure, he's got both a level-up feat and an EK feat, if we use the Ranger1/Wiz5/EK1 build for him...

Certainly, some casting Feats would probably not go amiss. Perhaps Extend Spell to keep some buffs up longer (and all night Rope Tricks if so inclined), and later two day Greater Magic Weapons & stuff, or mebbe pre-emptively take Quicken Spell for when those higher level slots become available (Quickened True Strikes are as good as ever).

Item creation is always a decent option and that Practiced Spellcaster, I strongly suggest it if he wants to use any spells with level-dependent variables what-so-ever (he's two caster levels behind already and by level 10 he'll be 3).


Focused Shot is kinda annoying since it'll be obsolete in a while but for now, I suppose it'll be worthwhile (since his attack bonus will temporarily be fairly far behind the curve; he'll catch up over time but this is pretty much the worst point for him) as he can't afford to Rapid Shot as much. Later, full attacks simply do more tho.

Reckless Aim is probably actually worth it. Natural 1s happen rarely enough (sucks when they do of course) and +2 to hit would go a long way towards compensating for the lost Attack Bonus and enabling Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim. Of course, Snap Shot isn't entirely useless either.


Spell Focus or Spell Penetration is of course not amiss either; they'll be useful now and remain useful always with Imbue Arrow.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Arcane Strike works with ranged weapons. Good source of extra damage, that (even tho it does cost the swift action).

Thalnawr
2012-08-16, 05:51 PM
I'm almost leaning more towards the Trapper/Myrmidarch route for this guy, as he hasn't taken any arcane spellcasting on the pre-conversion character.

We're playing an updated (and very heavily revised) version of Rogue Shadows' Saga D&D rules at present, and the task of converting Savage Tide to those rules has been proving to be more and more of a non-trivial challenge for me. I've got to revise quite a bit before I'd feel comfortable with using it again, and they don't want to take a break from playing while I do so.

Anyhow, due to the above circumstances, everyone is getting to rebuild their characters. I still don't know what to do with the sword and board fighter, as he won't have any of his fancy shield tricks available to him.

grarrrg
2012-08-16, 05:51 PM
A level 7 Elf character. 25 Point Buy, with 1 extra +1 to an ability score (can't be the same one as the first +1)....The player also wants to get into Arcane Archer as quickly as possible....

Anyhow, my idea was along the lines of a Trapper archetype Ranger, multi-classing into Wizard or Magus.

The absolute earliest you can enter Arcane Archer is level 8. This is due to needing 6 Bab, and 1st level Arcane Casting (no Arcane Caster has Full bab).


Ranger 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 3/Arcane Archer -> is usually my go-to Arcane Archer in PF (Wizard 6/EK 2 is equally viable).

First off, you best options for Arcane Archer are Wizard, Witch, or Magus.
The Witch's spell list is almost strictly worse than the Wizard's for Arcane Archer, but it is an option.
Magus has 3/4 Bab, but an even worse spell list.
My vote is to go with Wizard.

Does your guy want to be an ARCANE archer, or an arcane ARCHER?
If going Magic focused, then go with what Eldariel said, probably throw on the Trophy Hunter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/trophy-hunter) Archetype along with Trapper (they stack). You lose Wild Empathy, but gain a bonus on Tracking. Nothing big, but it's an option.
Also, since he's an Elf, he may want to take the Spellbinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/elf/spellbinder-wizard-elf) Wizard archetype. It can give him some spontaneity with his casting.

If leaning more towards Archer, then Ranger 6/Wizard 1 is probably best, as that will get you your 2nd Favored Enemy, and your 2nd bonus Feat.


Any particular recommendations on stat buy? Right now I've got him with 14 Str, 18 Dex, 12 Con, 16 Int, and 10 Cha (with 1 point left over).
I'm assuming a WIS of 10?
That's about perfect if going Archer-focus. As said, Con can be higher, but that's hard to boost with a -2 Penalty.
Since you are starting at level 7, and he gets an EXTRA +1 to any, then why not start with DEX/INT both at 17 (15+race)? He'd put his 2 bonus stats there, and start with 18 in each, and have an extra point left over (16>15 +3. 14>15 -2).

If going the Arcane-focused route, then INT should DEFINITELY start at 18 (if not higher).


3.5 has Practiced Spellcaster [Complete Arcane] to make up for caster levels lost for multiclassing ... but I don't think PF has anything quite the same.
Actually, PF does have something similar, the Magical Knack (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/magical-knack) trait is good for a +2 to Caster level (max Caster = Character level).

Eldariel
2012-08-16, 05:51 PM
Actually, the Myrmidarch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/myrmidarch) archetype might allow him to preserve some of that functionality... Although, he still wants to squeeze in his trap-finding ability somehow, so Trapper archetype Ranger 1/Myrmidarch 6 could be a viable alternative.

The reason I'd suggest a Wizard over a Magus is:
- Party lacks a Wizard. Spells like Contact Other Plane, Planar Bindings, Simulacrums & al. can be unbelievably useful out of combat. You're entering the levels where arcane magic begins to shine; Magi are only really adept at combat.
- Wizard synergises with Arcane Archer specifically quite well. Anti-Magic Field is an all-star standout as a spell to use on Imbue Arrow for instance (hit somebody with an AMF, they're stuck with it while you're flying and all).
- Access to higher level slots makes for easier Quickening of mid-level spells. Wizard will even be able to prepare Quickened Teleport by level 20 if they sacrifice a 9th level slot for it.
- Wizard list has some buffs the party currently doesn't have access to. Heroism-line provides Morale-bonuses that are otherwise hard to generate in such quantity for this party, Mind Blank which is kind of a big deal later, and a solid array of anti-divination tools.
- Wizard gets all the fun stuff earlier than Magus. By level 14 he'll be slinging what Magus would look at around level 20.
- Magus misses out on many of the key class features anyways since you take Arcane Archer, not Magus, and only has +1 BAB advantage overall.


Really, there are spells to compensate for the To Hit you lose out on in the BAB initially (hell, there's always Tenser's Transformation if you're feeling funky), and you get a lot of versatility the Magus never gets.

Far as the party goes, I think a Wizard would be incomparably more useful than a second Magus. Also, favored class for extra skill points; pretty relevant if this is going to be the skill monkey.

EDIT:

Actually, PF does have something similar, the Magical Knack (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/magical-knack) trait is good for a +2 to Caster level (max Caster = Character level).

Very convenient, that. Ok, so going the Arcane Archer 4/Eldritch Knight 10 path he'd only be one caster level behind; eminently liveable, that, especially with eventual caster level boosting items and stuff. Not quite as good as a straight caster but there'll still be +5 Greater Magic Weapons eventually (tho I guess there's also a Cleric who can provide it much earlier with Beads of Karma; other spells do have level-based variables too tho).

Thalnawr
2012-08-16, 06:10 PM
I'm assuming a WIS of 10?
That's about perfect if going Archer-focus. As said, Con can be higher, but that's hard to boost with a -2 Penalty.
Since you are starting at level 7, and he gets an EXTRA +1 to any, then why not start with DEX/INT both at 17 (15+race)? He'd put his 2 bonus stats there, and start with 18 in each, and have an extra point left over (16>15 +3. 14>15 -2).

Guh, forgot the Wisdom... His stat buy for the current game was 12 Str, 15 Dex (+2 for Elf), 14 Con (-2 Elf), 13 Int, 14 Wis, 10 Cha. These were derived with a 32 point buy, using 3.5's point buy rules. With the same stat boost at 2 and 4. And now looking at this, if this is really his point buy, he's been down stat point this entire time, and nobody caught it... Maybe he has a 13 Str, I'd have to look at his character sheet when I get home.
Edit: Yep, a 13 Strength.

Eldariel
2012-08-16, 06:30 PM
Guh, forgot the Wisdom... His stat buy for the current game was 12 Str, 15 Dex (+2 for Elf), 14 Con (-2 Elf), 13 Int, 14 Wis, 10 Cha. These were derived with a 32 point buy, using 3.5's point buy rules. With the same stat boost at 2 and 4. And now looking at this, if this is really his point buy, he's been down stat point this entire time, and nobody caught it... Maybe he has a 13 Str, I'd have to look at his character sheet when I get home.

By PF array you could get:
13 Str - 3 points
15 (17) Dex - 7 points (free point going here for 18 Dex; all level-up points in Int of course)
14 (12) Con - 5 points
16 (18) Int - 10 points
10 Wis - 0 points
10 Cha - 0 points

Dropping either Wis or Cha to 8 would enable 14 Str tho. That's absolutely what I'd do. 18 Int and Dex seems too clutch not to pick it up especially with the free bonus point making it relatively easy (well, 19 Int I guess; on level 8 it'll be 20 so worth it). Of course, 13 Str is enough but the extra point of damage would be nice.

jmelesky
2012-08-16, 07:52 PM
... and a sword and board fighter (this player is the best at practical optimization though, so maybe he'll rethink his horrible choice before the switch).

As an aside, PF has some fun stuff for shield-wielders (though the associated fighter archetype isn't one of them). I've been eyeing a build i call "flurry of bashes", which combines a high crit range weapon with Bashing Finish and Shield Slam.

If he's an optimizer, he may have something similar in mind.

deuxhero
2012-08-16, 07:54 PM
Monks don't loss anything for becoming chaotic, they just can't advance further. Simply go ex-Monk.

Larpus
2012-08-17, 01:21 AM
What Eldariel said is very true, forgot to consider that they lacked an arcane caster; the Magus can manage and somewhat fill the gap, but he's certainly not a full caster, being more of an "off-caster".

Though how much that will affect anything will depend on how much importance there is in said spells.

Thalnawr
2012-08-17, 09:11 AM
First, I guess I should ask him the question grarrrg asked: Does he want to be an Archer foremost or an Arcanist? Right now, he's only an archer, so if he wants to stay true to what he's been playing, he'll probably pick a more ranger-centric build. At least I've got 2 or 3 basic build options to allow him to pick and customize to his tastes.
Edit: He chose the Arcanist version, so at least the group is covered that way.

The only reason I said Magus for the one guy, is because he's a mage type right now, working towards a gish-type caster PRC in the current game. If he wants to stay true to that, Magus is the best choice. Maybe I can convince him Wizard/Fighter (or some other thing with all martial weapon profs)/Eldritch Knight would work better for him.

The sword and board fighter is still worrying me though, since he could actually use his shield for active defense in the system we're switching out of. Sort of like the Star Wars Saga Deflect and Block talents, but for shields. There's really nothing that I've been able to find in 3.5 or PF that comes close to allowing him to do near what he could do there.

Larpus
2012-08-17, 01:33 PM
If I understood correctly, the Fighter's closer to an MMO-style tanker, right?

Well, that is certainly a problem as there's not much to that effect in PF, at least not for now.

As others said, there are definitely cool and effective options for an offensive sword&board build, but for a more defensive one...don't remember there being anything.

So either he will have to change his playstyle/build focus for a more aggressive one; say, instead of provoking enemies and sitting on top of a big AC, move around and trip enemies on their backs...not nearly close to being the same, but still a "mundane fighter guy approach to defending teammates".

Or it's time to houserule and make a custom class/feat/mechanic, but that doesn't sound like it's your desire.

Thalnawr
2012-08-17, 02:24 PM
Sorta like a MMO-style tank, yes, except he can currently block attacks going to adjacent allies, and do this on the move. He's exceptionally difficult to hurt when attacking his Reflex Defense (Saga replacement for AC) as well.

I wouldn't be averse to home-brewing a feat chain to emulate some of what the talent chain does, at least, especially since I made the talent chain in a similar manner. I'll have to look at the Fighter class skill list to see if anything on there looks like it'd be suitable to power these feats. Know of any way to get Acrobatics on their class list without multi-classing?

Larpus
2012-08-17, 03:59 PM
Well, in that regard there are a few options, such as the Saving Shield (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/saving-shield-combat) or Covering Defense (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/covering-defense-combat) feats...but I'm unsure, neither sounds very powerful.

On deflecting blows, there's Missile Shield (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/missile-shield-combat), so maybe either add a clause to it so it can affect melee attacks too or create such a feat with some mechanic (because simply saying "screw this attack" sounds a bit too powerful, even if it's 1/round), maybe something along the lines of "make an opposed attack at the received attack, if yours higher, you deflect it".

Lastly, I might be wrong, but if memory serves me right, there are some interesting options and mechanics on the Cavalier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier) class, which, despite the name, doesn't actually need the mount (there are archetypes that trade it away), though it can be argued that it's one of the few classes that actually make mounted combat feasible by having animal companion mechanics added to the mount.

Couple changes I suggest if he does like the class: give him Solo Tactics (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor#TOC-Solo-Tactics-Ex-) ability so he can actually use his bonus teamwork feats (which suck balls with their regular mechanics) and handweaving away the clause that requires the Cavalier to wait until level up to regain his mount, which is just one of the stupidiest examples of "mundane sucks" I've ever seen.

EDIT: Also check the alternate Cavalier, the Samurai (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/samurai), which has archetypes of his own and, ignoring the fluff which might go against the setting, might have options or abilities that appeal to the player.

If all else fails, maybe the class can be used as a chassis for the homebrew, with the two changes I suggested, the Cavalier looks like a pretty respectable combat class.

Thalnawr
2012-08-17, 04:09 PM
In the spoiler, are the abilities he's been using.
Shield Defense: As a reaction, you may negate a melee or ranged attack by making a successful Initiative check. The DC of the skill check is equal to the result of the attack roll you wish to negate, and you take a cumulative -5 penalty on your Initiative check (for the purposes of this talent) for every time you have used Shield Defense since the beginning of your last turn. You must have a shield readied to use this talent, and you must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.
This talent cannot be used to negate attacks from large siege weapons, such as catapults or ballistae.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency feat, trained in the Initiative skill

Shield Other: You may use your Shield Defense talent to protect an adjacent ally. If you are shielding that ally from a melee attack, you must both be adjacent to the attacker as well.
Prerequisites: Shield Defense, Shield Proficiency feat, trained in the Initiative skill

I could probably turn these into feats, and I'm actually thinking of having them make a CMB check with a DC equal to the attack roll to activate this... Probably the best way of simulating it, honestly.

Larpus
2012-08-17, 04:50 PM
In the spoiler, are the abilities he's been using.
Shield Defense: As a reaction, you may negate a melee or ranged attack by making a successful Initiative check. The DC of the skill check is equal to the result of the attack roll you wish to negate, and you take a cumulative -5 penalty on your Initiative check (for the purposes of this talent) for every time you have used Shield Defense since the beginning of your last turn. You must have a shield readied to use this talent, and you must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.
This talent cannot be used to negate attacks from large siege weapons, such as catapults or ballistae.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency feat, trained in the Initiative skill

Shield Other: You may use your Shield Defense talent to protect an adjacent ally. If you are shielding that ally from a melee attack, you must both be adjacent to the attacker as well.
Prerequisites: Shield Defense, Shield Proficiency feat, trained in the Initiative skill

I could probably turn these into feats, and I'm actually thinking of having them make a CMB check with a DC equal to the attack roll to activate this... Probably the best way of simulating it, honestly.
Sounds good to me.

Also forgot to mention, but in PF it's much less important whether or not a skill is a class skill or not, as they don't have the "half ranks" shenanigans of 3.5, so the only difference between a class skill and a non-class skill is that the class one receives an extra +3. Nice, but not nearly as vital as it was in 3.5.

Either way, an easy way to get it as a class skill is via traits; not sure if there is an official trait that gives Acrobatics as a class skill, but there are many "skill X receives +1 and X is always a class skill for you" traits, all the DMs I play with have allowed anyone to make a custom trait in order to get a skill as a class skill.

Thalnawr
2012-08-17, 05:06 PM
The whole unified combat maneuver mechanic meshes better with the system, honestly. So no real need to shoehorn it into a special Acrobatics check. Think I might have to fiddle with the prerequisites a bit, and maybe make a Mastery feat that softens the cumulative penalty, possibly to something like -2.

Hylas
2012-08-17, 07:36 PM
I'm going to second the Ranger 6/Wizard 1 for arcane archer, assuming you want more archer than arcane. Otherwise go with the EK build mentioned earlier.

If you grab a WIS score of 11 or higher you can cast longstrider! And uh... walk around more!

I would also recommend a transmutation specialist because being able to buff up your physical stats is pretty nifty, even if it's only a +1, especially if your DM is stingy with magic items. It allows for you to drop either STR or CON by 1 and be relatively unaffected.

Also a potentially useful feat is Arcane Strike. It's definitely more useful if you have more wizard levels, but it's something you can keep an eye on.

Thalnawr
2012-08-17, 07:42 PM
I'm going to second the Ranger 6/Wizard 1 for arcane archer, assuming you want more archer than arcane. Otherwise go with the EK build mentioned earlier.

If you grab a WIS score of 11 or higher you can cast longstrider! And uh... walk around more!

I would also recommend a transmutation specialist because being able to buff up your physical stats is pretty nifty, even if it's only a +1, especially if your DM is stingy with magic items. It allows for you to drop either STR or CON by 1 and be relatively unaffected.

Also a potentially useful feat is Arcane Strike. It's definitely more useful if you have more wizard levels, but it's something you can keep an eye on.
I'm actually the GM in question. So I've been just trying to get the Playground to help me help this particular player convert their character. All of the advice has been awesome and useful. The guy is going with the Trapper Ranger 1/Wizard 5/EK 1 build, and working from there. Arcane Strike may actually be one of the feats he takes, since he has 1 or 2 open slots.

Eldariel
2012-08-18, 06:26 AM
I'm actually the GM in question. So I've been just trying to get the Playground to help me help this particular player convert their character. All of the advice has been awesome and useful. The guy is going with the Trapper Ranger 1/Wizard 5/EK 1 build, and working from there. Arcane Strike may actually be one of the feats he takes, since he has 1 or 2 open slots.

If he feels he at all can, I suggest trying to make do without Focused Shot (unless you allow retraining). Like I said, it becomes obsolete in two-three levels so it's useful now but that'll change. Other than that, I'd say Spell Penetrations, all the Rapid Shot-line stuff, Quicken Spell, Reckless Aim, Deadly Aim & Arcane Strike. Seems like a solid combination for both, Full Attack Volleys and Imbued Arrows.

I wish him a good time. There's a build that has a lot to do; interesting spell comboes (Improved Invisibility + full attacks = profit?), lots of options and very solid basic output. And a lot to master; good skills, great spell list combined with the unique options in Imbue Arrow and some attack options (Deadly Aim, Arcane Strike, etc.). Should be fun. Oh, and he shouldn't be afraid of considering Craft Magic Arms and Armor either in case he wants to make his bow himself.