Rod of Absorption - crazy overpowered?

[Yorae]

So I was looking at neat stuff to make with my future artificer and I found this rod.... and it looks, frankly, insane. The ability to fuel more of your spells is pretty neat, but the main thing that blew my mind was that it apparently totally negates every spell that targets you? Am I insane and reading it incorrectly?

[Ravens_cry]

Well, it's a limited use item, though it *is* nice.
Also, area effect spells are not affected.

[RFLS]

A rod of adsorption would really be something, though.

...this is why I'm not allowed chemistry textbooks at the table during gameplay.

[Medic!]

I'm AFB atm, but is the Rod of Absorption the one you have to ready an action to use, or am I thinking of something else?

[grautry]

The key part is that the Rod can absorb a total of 50 spell levels and that's it. It can't absorb any more after that, ever, it can only be discharged. After you do that, the rod is a pretty, but otherwise useless stick. So, if the rod absorbs, say, a fifth-level spell you're essentially paying 5k gp for that protection.

Not to mention that it only protects you against direct, single-target spells. If someone Gates in a Solar you're still screwed. If someone conjures a Wall of Force, a Forcecage, a mist or anything area-affecting, it still affects you.

[Amidus Drexel]

I'm AFB atm, but is the Rod of Absorption the one you have to ready an action to use, or am I thinking of something else?

I know the Ioun stones that absorb spells need to be readied. Not sure on the rod. I'll check.

Edit: Nope, using it takes no action.

[Yorae]

Well, it's a limited use item, though it *is* nice.
Also, area effect spells are not affected.

Oooh, I get it. 50 levels and done, the end. I was thinking that after you expended the pent up energy, then it was able to re-absorb that many levels.

Still, pretty darn nice.

[Mithril Leaf]

You can get a similar effect with a wand of this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/spells/dweomerOfTransference.htm) for 21,000gp.

[nedz]

You can also use it to Nova.
Its powerful, but not for the level you typically get it at.

[Slipperychicken]

totally negates every spell that targets you? Am I insane and reading it incorrectly?

Single target and rays only, plenty of spells go through. And it only works for 50 spell levels total (you can't recharge it). And you can't designate spells to be accepted -all such spells go into the Rod if you're holding it (if someone casts Cure Light Wounds on you while you hold the rod, it's absorbed and wastes the rod's potential).


For 50k, limited use, and it's other drawbacks, it's a lot less sexy. You'll be better off using that cash to buy real immunities instead.


EDIT: AAAHHH! Swordsages!!!

[Spuddles]

I think it's quite powerful, given that with quickdraw and some spellcraft, it effectively gives you immunity to any targeted spells. It may only have 50 charges, but that's going to last one of my characters most of a campaign.

[Togo]

..or one fighter vs. wizard fight. :smalltongue:

[nedz]

..or one fighter vs. wizard fight. :smalltongue:

Sadly it doesn't help with things like Forcecage, so useful - if the wizard doesn't know you have it, and he guesses badly.

More useful in the Fighter v Cleric scrap I suspect.

[GenghisDon]

It's a classic high end D&D item.

I haven't even used (placed) one in d20, but AOE spells were fair game BITD. It's weaker now I suppose. It used to effectively allow you to win initiative with the energy/spell you released too

It's still a bit alien to me to base an item's usefulness SOLEY on it's price. Does everyone play with magic stores that buy/sell every/anything all the time these days? That makes me sad. A good part of the fun of D&D was finding some cool goodie, not collecting crap items until one can afford item X at Magic-Mart.

[Mithril Leaf]

It's a classic high end D&D item.

I haven't even used (placed) one in d20, but AOE spells were fair game BITD. It's weaker now I suppose.

It's still a bit alien to me to base an item's usefulness SOLEY on it's price. Does everyone play with magic stores that buy/sell every/anything all the time these days? That makes me sad. A good part of the fun of D&D was finding some cool goodie, not collecting crap items until one can afford item X at Magic-Mart.

It's the easiest way to do so in an online DM free setting. When you've got set wealth by level, it's important to govern how you distribute it. If you've got a DM that lets you get what you want and 'fun' stuff in addition, that's great, but online you have to assume that's not the case.

[GenghisDon]

well, I didn't say "players get what they want"

but lets say your sorcerer character wanted a staff of frost or an Ioun Stone (lavender & green ellipsoid) & ends up with a rod of absorbtion instead, they haven't got much (if any) complaints I hope.

[Qwertystop]

Just because it has a price doesn't mean you will buy it. That's just the easiest way of figuring out how powerful a magic item is compared to the amount of power a character should have at a certain point. It can still be random treasure.

[Karoht]

It's a classic high end D&D item.

I haven't even used (placed) one in d20, but AOE spells were fair game BITD. It's weaker now I suppose. It used to effectively allow you to win initiative with the energy/spell you released too

It's still a bit alien to me to base an item's usefulness SOLEY on it's price. Does everyone play with magic stores that buy/sell every/anything all the time these days? That makes me sad. A good part of the fun of D&D was finding some cool goodie, not collecting crap items until one can afford item X at Magic-Mart.

It's great if you have no other options and you just happen to find one lying around (and the DM is a bit shakey on understanding how Wealth By Level works). But the lack of control over what is absorbed isn't so great. Heck, if you are immune to mind altering effects and someone casts dominate, it still eats a bunch of spell levels.

It is still objective to stop and think "I have 50K gold, should I buy this or buy something else."

But if I found it? And I didn't have immunities to certain effects? Yeah, I would make use of it until I found better or until it wore out. It's general purpose nature (and playing with it for a while) might even cause me to consider buying a second one, but it depends on the character.

[Mithril Leaf]

well, I didn't say "players get what they want"

but lets say your sorcerer character wanted a staff of frost or an Ioun Stone (lavender & green ellipsoid) & ends up with a rod of absorbtion instead, they haven't got much (if any) complaints I hope.

As an artificer (which the OP noted this was about) you do get what you want though. Everything an artificer does is based on money. You're point remains valid that getting similar items (they're also of similar price range, just saying) is perfectly valid.

[GenghisDon]

fair point. I'll bow out of the thread, Artificer sees no use in our games as a PC.

The easy item creation rules are another troublesome spot of d20.

It was too damn hard to make items in 1e or 2e, and too easy (a pile of gold) in 3e or 3.5e. sigh.

The rod almost surely wasn't found on the ground...it was probably in the hands of a wizard/lich/caster your group managed to defeat.

[nedz]

50K sounds quite cheap for something you keep in your extra-planer hand bag and only bring out for the boss fights. In old editions you could choose what to absorb and what to let through, seems to have to put it down to do that now. Still immunity to a wide variety of spells, and mana points to power your own, is always useful.

[ericgrau]

Even when someone blasts you with a ray it's an effect not a targeted spell. You are getting immunity to a fairly small portion of spells. I wouldn't worry about the rod being limited use, I don't think you'll even use it up against so few spells. I'd worry about actually negating enough spells to get any mileage out of that 50k gp you blew.

It's a common problem with defensive measures: No matter how strong it is the less it defends against the less special it is. Even total immunity can be sucky if it's total immunity to one thing out of a thousand.

Could be nice to have at very high levels when you expect a foe that likes targeted spells, but that's a fairly specific and uncommon situation. Spell turning is better though because it's cheaper and doesn't occupy a hand. And it reflects the spell as a non-action. I mean I wouldn't cast it at level 13 but once you have 9ths it's not too shabby of a 7th.

[Spuddles]

Rays are specifically called out as acceptable spells to absorb in the description of the rod.

[Mithril Leaf]

Again, wand of Dweomer of Transference (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/spells/dweomerOfTransference.htm). Artificers use a metawand (can't remember what the ability is called) persisted form of it at the end of a buff routine. Any spell cast at you is transferred into PP. You need to spend a feat or be innately psionic to use it though. Save-or-dies, blasting, instant conjurations. It basically makes a mailman cry.

[hewhosaysfish]

Again, wand of Dweomer of Transference (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/spells/dweomerOfTransference.htm). Artificers use a metawand (can't remember what the ability is called) persisted form of it at the end of a buff routine. Any spell cast at you is transferred into PP. You need to spend a feat or be innately psionic to use it though. Save-or-dies, blasting, instant conjurations. It basically makes a mailman cry.

Hmmm... Is that really what that spell does?


Dweomer Of Transference
Evocation
Spell Level: Cleric 4, sorcerer/wizard 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One willing psionic creature
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

With this spell, you form a radiating corona around the head of a psionic ally, then convert some of your spells into psionic power points. When you finish casting dweomer of transference, a red-orange glow surrounds the psionic creature’s head. For the duration of the spell, any spells cast at the subject don’t have their usual effect, instead converting themselves harmlessly into psionic energy that the subject can use as energy for psionic powers. You can cast any spell you like at the subject, even area spells, effect spells, and spells for whom the subject would ordinarily not be a legitimate target. The spells don’t do anything other than provide the subject with power points, but you must still cast them normally, obeying the component and range requirements listed in the description of each spell.

For each spell you cast into the dweomer of transference, the psionic creature gets temporary power points, according to the following table. The transference isn’t perfectly efficient. The temporary power points acquired through a dweomer of transference dissipate after 1 hour if they haven’t already been spent.


Wording that implies that the Dweomer only absorbs spells cast by the same Wizard who cast the Dweomer: Three

Wording that implies that the Dweomer absorbs all spells regardless of the caster: One

[Mithril Leaf]

Hmmm... Is that really what that spell does?



Wording that implies that the Dweomer only absorbs spells cast by the same Wizard who cast the Dweomer: Three

Wording that implies that the Dweomer absorbs all spells regardless of the caster: One

I'd say that since at some point it does explicitly call out that any spell cast into the dweomer is affected, then that instance would override the general usage of you. I'm very tired, so that not make much sense.

[Tesla_pasta]

Oooooh this looks like a Colossal RAW vs RAI thing. I'm almost positive that RAI it only works with spells cast by the person who cast the Dweomer, but that one sentence explicitly states ANY SPELL, so by RAW, it's like being immune to magic for 1 round/level (as a 4th level spell) IF you have PP.

As a DM, I'd houserule the be-jebus out of this.

What happens when an effect "counts as a second level spell" like warlock abilities that can be used at will? Super steroid psion time? Augment ALL the powers!

[umbergod]

The easy item creation rules are another troublesome spot of d20.

It was too damn hard to make items in 1e or 2e, and too easy (a pile of gold) in 3e or 3.5e. sigh.

Other than the artificer, and a few crafting centric prestiges, it really isn't all THAT easy to craft. Especially not when artificer is banned, and your DM isn't too free with the exp he/she gives out. Sure you could craft an amazing wand of awesomeness, but doing so could set you back enough experience that you're a level behind the rest of the party. Sure the whole "exp is a river thing" would help a bit, but if you're crafting a lot, the little bit of extra exp you get for being under the party's level doesn't really help.

[VGLordR2]

Technically, "you" is a modernization of the word "one". As such, one legitimate interpretation is that "you" refers to anyone. See the definitions (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/you). Notably, number 2.

EDIT: This post makes a lot more sense when you realize that I was responding to a poster who deleted his post.

[Urpriest]

Just a brief commentary on the whole "why consider the rod's price" question: if your DM is giving you the rod in treasure, then either the DM chose it out of a pre-set treasure budget based on price, so getting it means you're not getting something else of the same price which might be more useful, or it was rolled randomly, from a table balanced based on price, which again means you're getting it rather than something of comparable price. So either way the comparison makes sense.

[ericgrau]

Rays are specifically called out as acceptable spells to absorb in the description of the rod.

Oops, slightly less useless then.

As an example it works against 7 out of 21 5th level offensive spells. And I didn't count buffs, so really it's less than that.

Between that, needing a foe who's a spellcaster and that targetted spells and rays tend to be worse than other spells anyway (and so less often used), it's a big waste of gold and a hand. You really need to be certain your foe is an enchanter or someone else focused on targeted spells or you're better off putting almost anything else into that hand.

Dweomer of transference seem to strongly imply that the caster must cast the spells. But even if it doesn't it has a 1 minute casting time, a duration in rounds and the foe has to specifically target area spells at the target. If he casts them at a point in space it won't work. It's incredibly difficult to use to protect against foes at all.

[kitcik]

I don't know what answer this will lead to, and I suspect you are correct that the Rod is not that great, but I think the correct analysis is the percent of "save or lose" spells it will protect you against.

I don't care if I get fireballed.

[nedz]

Yeah - I have seen one used, but that was way back in 1E.

Being immune to 1/3 of the spells your facing can make the difference, as can the extra casting power.

Their lack of popularity says it all I guess.

[Chromascope3D]

Mmm... maybe. I've always been wary of items that can be depleted quickly, though.
That being said, the intelligent, Chaotic Neutral Rod of Wonder will always hold a special place in my heart. :P

[GenghisDon]

Yeah - I have seen one used, but that was way back in 1E.

Being immune to 1/3 of the spells your facing can make the difference, as can the extra casting power.

Their lack of popularity says it all I guess.

It was all spells back then & insanely potent in other ways than that.

[Karoht]

Mmm... maybe. I've always been wary of items that can be depleted quickly, though.
That being said, the intelligent, Chaotic Neutral Rod of Wonder will always hold a special place in my heart. :P
Huh. Now you've got me curious. What's the price difference between that and the normal rod, if any? Ballpark is fine.
And because it is intelligent, does it get a choice of which spells to absorb? Can you set parameters?

[Jack_Simth]

Huh. Now you've got me curious. What's the price difference between that and the normal rod, if any? Ballpark is fine.
And because it is intelligent, does it get a choice of which spells to absorb? Can you set parameters?
You can't make expendable items (Such as a Rod of Absorbtion) intelligent.
RAW Pricing for an Intelligent Item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm) is... complex ... and ranges from a 2,000 gp add-on to a 315,000 gp add-on.

[Sutremaine]

I'm almost positive that RAI it only works with spells cast by the person who cast the Dweomer, but that one sentence explicitly states ANY SPELL, so by RAW, it's like being immune to magic for 1 round/level (as a 4th level spell) IF you have PP.

As a DM, I'd houserule the be-jebus out of this.
You'd need to apply some houseruling even if you went with the 'all spells' interpretation. The spell description says that it converts spells into PP, but it only gives exact figures for spells that the caster of the spell puts into the dweomer.