Using Templates correctly (Making a Half-Blood)

[Big_Joe]

Hello there, at first i want to say english isnt my native language but i hope iam able to make clear what my Problem is.

After searching along different Websites, this Forum and many other sources (such as WotC-Archives) iam still confused about how to create a Half-Blood/adding a specific template.

In this case we are starting a all new Campaign (iam not the DM) and i want to create a half-dragon sorcerer. But instead of adding a template to an already existing creature because of a class feature (dragon disciple) i want to create a character as Half-Dragon from the beginning. the other half is human, if this is relevant.

My main question is: are there any tutorials or maybe a "step-by-step" on how to do that? and especially: creating a lv1 half-blood with class level?

i already had read the chapter in the Monster Manual I (how to read templates) and the WotC-Archives (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060711a) but this couldnt help me much :(


Thanks in advance!

[Uncle Pine]

Well, I'm pretty sure that you'll findthis guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207928) useful.
In any case, the first thing you have to know is that a half-dragon sorcerer is not a 1st level character: it's actually a 4th level character.
What I mean is that when you are playing monstrous character (that is, using monstrous races of applying templates to standard races), your level is calculated in this way: class level + racial Hit Die (HD) + racial Level Adjustment (LA). In your case, you are a 1st level sorcerer with no racial HD and a LA of +3 from the half-dragon template, for a total Effective Character Level (ECL) of 4. In order to level up, you'll have to gain 10.000 px :smallsmile:

[Studoku]

Creating an ECL 1 character with a large level adjustment is difficult. If you just apply half-dragon to a level 1 character, you'll have something that is supposed to be equal to a level 4 character in a level 1 party.

There's a racial progression here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a). This allows you to add the bonuses when you would level up- in this case when you reach lvl 2, 3 & 4. This is instead of gaining a level- you won't receive skills or hd from this. You'll end up with the same thing you would have if you had created a level 1 with the template but you'll be able to play at level 1-3.

Your other option would be to find a race or template that could represent a half-dragon but has less of a level adjustment. There's a dragonborn race in Draconomicon that has +1 or 0 (I can't remember).

[Big_Joe]

Thank you very much for the Link, it was indeed very very usefull and now i understand much more of the process.

But while creating my Half-Dragon, Half-Human Sorcerer there are still some Questions. I had read the Guide very rigorous, maybe i missed something (sorry then), but about the following iam still unsure:

1. Since Half-Dragon dont have any Racial Hit Dice (just an increase, i'll ask about that later) which could tell me what Talents or any else racial benefits i get, i took the benefits from the human race (+4 skill points at start, +1 every level, 1 bonus talent etc.) and just added the changes from the half-dragon (additional attributes, Dark vision, light vision, breath weapon etc.). Am i right here?

2. the half-dragon increase my hit dice by one point. as the sorcerer i would create, i have a d4. Do this increase affect the class HD? and if not, what is the D-size of a human? D6?

3. iam very unsure about my saves. the half-dragon dont give a suggestion on how to change them. iam starting as a lv 4 character, add a level of sorcerer (ECL 5) and have 0/0/2 (without ability points) which sounds a little bit low for this lvl?


Thats the most important points, maybe you can help me with that :)

Thanks in advance!

[Big_Joe]

Creating an ECL 1 character with a large level adjustment is difficult. If you just apply half-dragon to a level 1 character, you'll have something that is supposed to be equal to a level 4 character in a level 1 party.

We are starting at level 11 so this wont be a problem. if i count it right iam a 7th-Level Half-Dragon, Half-Human Sorcerer (ECL 11), right?

[Prime32]

1. Since Half-Dragon dont have any Racial Hit Dice (just an increase, i'll ask about that later) which could tell me what Talents or any else racial benefits i get, i took the benefits from the human race (+4 skill points at start, +1 every level, 1 bonus talent etc.) and just added the changes from the half-dragon (additional attributes, Dark vision, light vision, breath weapon etc.). Am i right here?Yes.


2. the half-dragon increase my hit dice by one point. as the sorcerer i would create, i have a d4. Do this increase affect the class HD? and if not, what is the D-size of a human? D6?

Hit Dice
Increase base creature’s racial HD by one die size, to a maximum of d12. Do not increase class HD. No.


3. iam very unsure about my saves. the half-dragon dont give a suggestion on how to change them. iam starting as a lv 4 character, add a level of sorcerer (ECL 5) and have 0/0/2 (without ability points) which sounds a little bit low for this lvl?It is low. Your hit points will also be very low, your spells will be weaker than an lv11 sorcerer's, and spells like blasphemy, cloudkill and so on will kill you instantly while leaving your party members unaffected.

The designers didn't really like the idea of people playing things other than normal humans...
There have been attempts to fix this (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=3533) though.

[Uncle Pine]

Thank you very much for the Link, it was indeed very very usefull and now i understand much more of the process.

But while creating my Half-Dragon, Half-Human Sorcerer there are still some Questions. I had read the Guide very rigorous, maybe i missed something (sorry then), but about the following iam still unsure:

1. Since Half-Dragon dont have any Racial Hit Dice (just an increase, i'll ask about that later) which could tell me what Talents or any else racial benefits i get, i took the benefits from the human race (+4 skill points at start, +1 every level, 1 bonus talent etc.) and just added the changes from the half-dragon (additional attributes, Dark vision, light vision, breath weapon etc.). Am i right here?

2. the half-dragon increase my hit dice by one point. as the sorcerer i would create, i have a d4. Do this increase affect the class HD? and if not, what is the D-size of a human? D6?

3. iam very unsure about my saves. the half-dragon dont give a suggestion on how to change them. iam starting as a lv 4 character, add a level of sorcerer (ECL 5) and have 0/0/2 (without ability points) which sounds a little bit low for this lvl?


Thats the most important points, maybe you can help me with that :)

Thanks in advance!

1. Yes.
2. As Prime32 quoted, the half-dragon template only increase racial HD (your sorcerer HDs are "class HDs"). I'm pretty sure that humans, as well as all the other races in the Player Handbook, don't have racial HDs: that is, the weakest human you could create would be a commoner and would use the commoner HD, which is d4. Though, I don't remember where I read this, so it could be an assumption of mine.
3. Watch below :smallsmile:


We are starting at level 11 so this wont be a problem. if i count it right iam a 7th-Level Half-Dragon, Half-Human Sorcerer (ECL 11), right?
If you are starting at level 11 you will be a 8th-level half-dragon sorcerer (8 character level + 0 racial HDs + 3 for the LA = ECL 11). Your BAB, base saves, skills and spells will be exactly the same as those of a 8th-level sorcerer. This is how LA works, so your base saves will be +2/+2/+6. Be careful during combats, because you'll have only 8d4+Con hit points!

[Big_Joe]

Okay, understood. Thank you very much for the help and the tips. maybe i should just use the Dragon Disciple prestige class even if my magic abilities would be much lower...but this way i have average saves and HP and maybe i can fight melee-like :)

[Andezzar]

Okay, understood. Thank you very much for the help and the tips. maybe i should just use the Dragon Disciple prestige class even if my magic abilities would be much lower...but this way i have average saves and HP and maybe i can fight melee-like :)That pretty much depends on what you would like to do. The Dragon disciple PRC only really works for melee characters (and even then not that well). 10 levels that don't increase casting is the death of a caster.

If you want to add a template that makes you look somewhat like a dragon, take a look at the Draconic Creature template from Races of the Dragon. It's only LA+1. You can even take two feats to give yourself functional wings, which a half-dragon cannot get unless he is large or larger.

[Big_Joe]

Iam allowed to take a Large Creature even if its just 2,08m (dont know how much ft.) in height so i have a pair of wings. but iam restricted in which books i can use: just the basic rulebooks (handbook for player and DM [number 1], monster manual) and the common complete books (adventurer, arcane, champion, divine, mage, scoundrel, warrior) so iam unable to take the race from RotD :-( (already asked my DM).

but ill take 8 levels in the warmage base class from complete arcane. its a good mix between melee and caster IMO. espacially with the bonus dmg from "warmage edge". and the 3 "missing" levels arent as bad as with the sorcerer.


and i have another Question:
"Skills" from the Half-Dragon section in the SRD says:

A half-dragon gains skill points as a dragon and has skill points equal to (6 + Int modifier) x (HD + 3). Do not include Hit Dice from class levels in this calculation - the half-dragon gains dragon skill points only for its racial Hit Dice, and gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels. Treat skills from the base creature’s list as class skills, and other skills as cross-class.
what is a "Dragon-Skillpoint"? anything special or just something to discern normal and racial skillpoints? (i know i dont get any of these skillpoints cause of human)

[Andezzar]

what is a "Dragon-Skillpoint"? anything special or just something to discern normal and racial skillpoints? (i know i dont get any of these skillpoints cause of human)Just something to differentiate skill points from class levels and from RHD.

Not even 6 ft. 10 in. should not qualify for being large. a large mostly human creature is weird. Are you sure the DM thought this through? If you are large you will no longer fit into a 5 ft square. You need four of them. Also it gives you a couple of advantages for melee.

[Big_Joe]

My DM said explicity i can be a large creature with all melee benefits and mali (range, atack etc.) but still fit in a single square. and he also accept the height, so iam not angry with this ^^