Bard Help

[Arich Manas]

I am new to this forum, and have only played D&D once before, and only 6 or 7 hours, but I am going to be joining another game shortly. My brother helped me build a level 20 template for my character, so that I have a baseline of what I should be looking for as the campaign progresses. I am a human, and will be taking my first 10 classes in Bard, and the next 10 in Sublime Chord. I am here asking for suggestions on good spells to learn; I am mostly interested in playing a buffer class, with some type of bow or crossbow for ranged attacks if needed (although I think that will basically only be used if it is a last resort). When I enter the game, since it has already started, I will began as level 10, taking my first level in Sublime Chord the next time I level up. If any further information is required, I would be happy to upload the character sheet that I have, as it is currently filled out.

Thanks,
Will

[Novawurmson]

Welcome to the forum and to D&D!

If you could at least tell us your stats, feats, any alternate class features you have, any magical items you have, and as much as you know about the rest of the party, that would help a lot.

In general, Haste (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/haste.htm) is going to be the best buff you can give your party. We can help more when we know what else your build has already.

Have you tried looking at any handbooks (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870498/The_Bards_Handbook)?


PS: "If I were Arich Man (http://youtu.be/RBHZFYpQ6nc)as..."

[laeZ1]

Bard is my absolute favorite class. Abuse your bardic knowledge, and find out what your DM will let you use it for. Some will let it be used for strictly things a bard might find out performing for people, rumor mongering, and politicing, while others will let it be rolled along with every knowledge check.

Something you should let us know when asking help with a build is what edition of D&D are you playing? Pathfinder and 3.5 are the most common (correct me if I'm wrong). If you're playing a 3.5 bard, there are pleanty of feats and magical items that can get you really going, as well as different prestige classes (even though you've already figured yours out).

My favorite way to play support as a bard is to utilize inspire courage. Now, at level 20, a bard gives his/her allies +4 to attack and damage rolls. That number isn't very big, but you can increase it with inspirational boost (a low level spell from the spell compendium), there's a feat... I don't remember what it's called, but we might as well call it improved inspire courage (which gives an additional +1), there's a feat called words of creation from the book of exalted deeds that doubles your inspire bonus (but you take a few d4 nonleathal damage to yourself)... there's some items too, but they're not coming to mind right now. The big bad feat is called Dragonfire Inspiration. This is from... some sorceror book. Dragon magic? Somebody else is bound to mention this. It turns your +4 to attack and damage (from inspire courage) into +4d6 fire damage.

[Novawurmson]

You're thinking of Song of the Heart. Great stuff.

And yes, Dragonfire Inspiration is in Dragon Magic, but you need the dragonblood subtype.

[eggs]

Sublime Chord means 3e.



Generally awesome buffs are things like Haste, Polymorph, Greater Invisibility, Brilliant Aura*, Mass Resist Energy*, Mass Fly* and Ironguard*. Maybe Mind Blank and Superior Resistance* for long-term buffs (though Mind Blank has some issues with Bards). Inspirational Boost* also falls into this category by making Inspire Courage better. Freedom of Movement can also be excellent, but it's best if you can find a way to chain it (otherwise, it just tells opposing casters to keep doing what they'd do normally, but to a different party member).

Spells that might be useful in facilitating that buffing are Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability*, Arcane Spellsurge*, the Spell Matrix line* and Timestop - all of which make it easier to throw a whole bunch of buffs onto the party [I]quickly.

And then there should be plenty of space to fill with other useful spells. Illusions (especially Shadow Conjuration) are very useful utility; Improvisation* and Glibness can crank the Bard's skills very high; Alter Self, Mirror Image, Greater Blink*, Sirine's Grace* and Ruin Delver's Fortune* are all excellent self-buffs and defenses. And after that, you could probably just fill the list in with whatever strikes your fancy, and still have a very workable build.

*From Spell Compendium

[Arich Manas]

Thanks for the quick response! I guess we are doing a high powered campaign, so all of our abilities start at 18, but I am using the following template, which slightly modifies them: http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/halffey.shtml
So they should be as follows:
Str: 18
Dex: 20
Con: 16
Int: 18
Wis: 20
Cha: 22
He suggested I only increase my Cha, so by the time im level 20, it should be 27.
My skills that I have points in are as follows:
Bluff: 23
Disguise: 23
Hide: 23
Knowledge Arcana: 23
Knowledge Nature: 7
Listen: 23
Move Silently: 23
Perform Oratory: 23
Profession Astronomer: 6
Sense Motive: 23
Sleight of Hand: 23
Spellcraft: 13

These are the ranks I have in them, not the skill modifiers in them.
For my feats, since I start with 4 because I am human and have 2 flaws (Slow and Noncombatant), I will start with Melodic Casting, Charming the Arrow, Subsonic, and Versatile Spellcasting. Then at levels 3,6,9,12,15, and 18 I will take Extend spell, Song of the Heart, Dark Stalker, Rapid Metamagic, Quicken, and Chaos Music, respectively. I just asked my brother about the party (he is DM) and he said that there are as follows (also, I'm not really sure what it all means): A wild shape animal companion focus druid, an artificer that focuses on self buff/melee, a half dragon sorcerer blaster melee (and then he mumbled that he is stupid because he wont take arcane thesis?) and a druid shifter who focuses on "blasting silly stuff and not knowing how to play the game". And finally, I have looked through the Players Handbook as well as the Spell Compendious to at least somewhat familiarize myself with a few spells.

Edit: Just read the other posts after making this post; I am playing 3.5, and also, I haven't looked at any items yet, but I can talk to my brother, who I'm sure would help me with that department.

[laeZ1]

Doesn't sound like you've got a dedicated healer, but with two druids, there shouldn't be any problem getting back to 100% post-combat.

Just looked up chaos music. I've never seen that feat before, and I like it! I'll use that for the illeagal bard/monk nobody's ever let me make.

I'd like to assume you know most of the mechanics of D&D, but I assumed that about people who have been playing for years and they've proven me wrong. So, the reason your brother said to put all your points into charisma is probably because that's what you cast your spells with. Having a high charisma will increase how many spells you can cast per day, and it will make your spells more difficult to resist.

The DC (Difficulty Class) of a spell (the will/reflex/forditude save somebody has to roll to lessen or negate the effect) is determined thusly: [10]+[spell level]+[ability modifier]+[misc] Misc is anything from feats, to other spells (that reminds me, there's a neat spell in either PHB2 or Spell compendium which buffs the DC of spells your allies cast, as well as the effective caster level)

A high charisma modifier for a support bard will help with your skills, and with how often you can cast your spells per day, but since you'll be casting exclusively (if not almost exclusively) at your allies, increasing the DC won't be as important as it would be for say, a sorc or wizard.

I highly suggest putting 64,000 into buying a belt of +8 con. This will retroactively raise your hp by four per level, a nice buffer of "Oh. That was stupid. How was I supposed to know we weren't supposed to roleplay with the lizard elder??"

[Half-orc Bard]

suggestion don't take Bard 10/ SC 10 take Bard 10/SC 2/ Virtuoso 8 you take a small hit to spellcasting, but your musical abilities become far better

[gorfnab]

suggestion don't take Bard 10/ SC 10 take Bard 10/SC 2/ Virtuoso 8 you take a small hit to spellcasting, but your musical abilities become far better
I usually recommend Bard 8/ Virtuoso 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Virtuoso 8. This puts the hit to spellcasting on the Bard side instead of the Sublime Chord side.

[nedz]

What level are you starting at ?
With Spontaneous casters its important to plan your spell choices several levels ahead, mainly so that you avoid duplication.

[Socratov]

I usually recommend Bard 8/ Virtuoso 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Virtuoso 8. This puts the hit to spellcasting on the Bard side instead of the Sublime Chord side.

I completely agree with this, and add in that you trade your fascinate for healing hymn (CDiv) and suggestion with Song of the heart, freeing a featslot for word of creation (it helps casting as well)

Pick up some cure spells an not only can you buff fabulously, but heal too :smallamused:

[Arich Manas]

What level are you starting at ?
Currently, I'll be entering at level 10. I talked some more to my brother, and we should be sitting down later today and perhaps finalizing my spell list, for the level 20 setup of this character, taking into account all the help from everyone who posted (I think more for my benefit rather than because he doesn't know), and I will then be sitting down and hopefully making the level 10 version that I will start playing with also later today :). I will be sure to post again today with an update and perhaps a final character setup. Thanks for all the help!

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

I'll third Dragonfire Inspiration and Inspire Courage boosting. You can get a number as high as 16 on this boost. (20 bardic music = 4, Mandolin (CAd) = 1, Inspirational Boost (SpC) = 1, Badge of Valor = 1, Song of the Heart = 1, Words of Creation = x2)

Also if you take one level of Sorcerer and the Dragonblooded Substitution level, you get Feat: Draconic Heritage for free. Select Pyroclastic Dragon and you can convert your DFI damage from Fire to Sonic. Getting Draconic Heritage would also let you use the 'Combine Song' class feature of Seeker of the Song to give 32d6 of damage (half Sonic half Fire) to all of your allies. But Seeker of the Song and the one Sorcerer level eat up your caster level and feats, so only do it if you only want to give the most damage boost via DFI.