Prestige Classes seem less important in pathfinder.

[zlefin]

That's what it seems to me from my various reading; that PrCs are less important to have; not just for power, but from a general gameplay perspective.

The increased supply of feats; the existence of things like rogue talents and rage powers; plus the sizeable selection of archetypes;
All those combine to make PrCs far less relevant of a tool for customizing your characters.

In pathfinder, playing entirely without PrCs seems like it could work just fine; whereas in 3.5 it would tend to be somewhat bland.

Does it seem this way to other people as well?

[Krazzman]

It#s quite a bit harsher. Most PrC will gimp you. They won't give you something that you won't get through another class (exception here seems to be HiPS and Death Attack). For "gishing" you still need it, though if you decide "halfway" that your 16 Int fighter could need some casting stuff.

With PrC it's similar to multiclassing now, just with more requirements. You're going to lose your favoured class bonus and it's rarely worth it. The Dragon Disciple is not even really worth it, the Sorcerer in itself could mitigate the same.

In most cases I would choose a class PC over a PrC-PC as they are going to be as flavourful as the others while still getting their Fav-Bonuses most of the time.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they are useless but most of the time not worth it.

[Ravenica]

some classes don't benefit from them, sorc and oracle lose too much by taking them, others not so much

[Chromascope3D]

The capstone abilities are the main driving force behind single class advancement. There are some prestige classes I really like (Shadowdancer and Mystic Theurge, namely), while others aren't as interesting, and some seem to be obsolete (Eldritch Knight due to the Magus class).

They can all be useful from an RP perspective, though. The Horizon Walker isn't very powerful in combat, but I could see myself RPing as a Ranger/HW or a Rogue/Master Spy.

[The Redwolf]

They just came out with a book that's nothing but prestige classes though, and from what I've heard they're almost all pretty nice and not that bad to get into, so they seem to be actually working on changing that.

[Daftendirekt]

Yeah, that was one of PF's driving goals was to make the base classes worth taking to 20. Also, with classes like Magus, Inquisitor, and Oracle (esp. Metal Oracles) and their gish-in-a-can status, you don't need to cobble together convoluted gish builds anymore. Personally, I've barely looked at PrCs in Pathfinder. The only one I am aware of and would like to take at some point is the Inheritor's Crusader (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/i-m/inheritor-s-crusader) with a paladin.

[Eldariel]

The capstone abilities are the main driving force behind single class advancement. There are some prestige classes I really like (Shadowdancer and Mystic Theurge, namely), while others aren't as interesting, and some seem to be obsolete (Eldritch Knight due to the Magus class).

Surprising that you'd say this; a Wizard/Ranger/Eldritch Knight still hits level 9 spells which are quite a bit more powerful than anything Magus can do. Magus might have more interesting class features but power-wise it's still worlds behind a full Wizard, especially since none of the high level goodies got nerfed (except the all-encompassing Polymorph nerfs of course). If anything, Magus is about the same as Duskblade in 3.5; great early on (tho not full BAB) with good damage from the combo but falls off after a bit.

[Doorhandle]

some classes don't benefit from them, sorc and oracle lose too much by taking them, others not so much

I would like to note the exception of dragon disciple, because it's levels and sorc levels stack for the purposes of the dragon bloodline, and it gives many other bonuses besides, even with a lower caster-level.

[The Boz]

For "gishing" you still need it
Nope. Magus.

[navar100]

I think it's by on purpose design. 3E legacy they couldn't get rid of them, but they didn't want them to be so popular. They push their own idea - archetypes. Many alternate class features in them mirror 3E prestige classes, if intent if not the same mechanically. One criticism of 3E prestige classes has been many were better off as alternative class features, so Pathfinder took up that offer.

That and has already been mentioned the desire for taking base classes to level 20 to be worth it. Sorcerer, Rogue, even Fighter are now worth it at level 20. Add in favored class bonuses, a player's desire to multi-class and/or go into a prestige class is now a matter of personal taste of character abilities and/or roleplaying choice rather than no-brainer get more POWER. Even archetypes do this since class features you are exchanging matter.

I find this a good thing.

[Psyren]

Nope. Magus.

And Synthesist, Battle Oracle etc. Even the purest of casters, Wizard and Witch, get to play gish to some degree (Scrollmaster and White-Haired respectively.)

Yeah, de-emphasizing PrCs is definitely a goal of PF. I don't mind it at all - archetypes seem a more fun line of demarcation for me.

[ThiagoMartell]

There is a book on prestige classes coming out and it seems to be pretty good.

I like that prestige classes are optional in PF, like they were supposed to be from the start.

[jaybird]

The Horizon Walker isn't very powerful in combat

Doesn't it have an ability that makes you immune to exhaustion? If so, the 1/Rage abilities Barbarians have just became 1/round abilities.

[grarrrg]

Regarding the whole "Eldritch Knight vs. Magus" thing.
They come out fairly even when doing a level 10-ish build.
(whatever) 1/Wizard 5/EK 4 gets 7 Bab and 4th level spells, with a Caster level of 8.
A level 10 Magus gets 7 Bab and 4th level spells, with a Caster level of 10.
I'd have to give the nod to the Magus here though, because its Abilities synergize fairly well, whereas the EK isn't quite there.

So for lower levels, the Magus wins. But higher levels...

(whatever) 2/Wizard 8/EK 10 gets 16 Bab, 9th level spells, caster level 18.
Magus 20 gets 15 Bab, 6th level spells, caster level 20.
At this point the EK clearly wins.




As for PrC's in general:
In games that you know will go to level 20, they have to compete with Base Capstones. That Fighter is really not inclined to Multi/PrC if it means forever losing Weapon Mastery. Likewise, a Sorcerer doesn't want to lose their level 20 Bloodline ability (exception for Dragon Bloodline/Dragon Disciple).

There are some Base classes without a Capstone ability (Cleric, Druid), these are more likely to Multi/PrC as they have less to lose (Druid's "Wildshape at Will" doesn't really count, as by level 10 they can already be Wildshaped for _40_ hours per _day_).

Likewise, in low level games (less than 8-ish), most PrC's just aren't an option due to Entry Reqs.


PrC's are "best" when you know the game is going to stop in the low-to-mid teens of levels, AND when the PrC offers something that another Base class cannot.
There are a few classifications of PrC's:
Flavor, Hybrid, Specialized, Other (there is some overlap between categories).
Each groups has good/bad, but Hybrid (and the Gish sub-group) are probably the most successful.

Flavor PrC's are usually the worst. Typically they are only taken when the Flavor is just so perfect for the Character that you cannot help but take it (Assassin, Shackles Pirate, Justicar).
Sometimes, rarely, they will have Unique abilities that cannot be had elsewhere (Master Spy, Duelist), but these usually lack something, or have restrictions that limits their usefulness (Master Spy is VERY Non-Combat, Duelist has Weapon/Armor restrictions).


Hybrids seek to take two Base Classes, and 'meld' them together. Hybrid PrC's are potentially powerful, but potentially traps as well. Generally these don't see much play due to the 2 required classes not being Multi-classed together.
This is also where most "gish" PrC's fall.
The Mystic Theurge is the poster child for the Traps, temptingly offering great power, but at a cost that makes it not worth it. Rage Prophet is even worth than Mystic Theurge, but is not as popularly known.
Some other Hybrids: Arcane Archer, Arcane Trickster, Battle Herald, Lion Blade, etc... (with varying degrees of success).
Gishes are much more successful as Hybrids, they require a Caster on one side, but the other can (usually) be any other class. They typically have Full Bab, and a good amount of Casting Progression.
Examples: Dragon Disciple, Eldritch Knight, Holy Vindicator, Master Chymist, Nature Warden (this is where Rage Prophet falls hard. It only has 3/4 Bab, and 'ok' casting progression).


Specialized are great... if you are into the thing they are built for. But sometimes they can be TOO specialized, that you just give up too many abilities for it to be worth it.
This is also where the classes with really high/prohibitive entry reqs go.
Examples: Agent of the Grave (Necromancer), Liberator (Anti-Slavery), Red Mantis Assassin (Assassin), Master Chymist ("Mr. Hyde" Alchemist), Stalwart Defender (Defends by NOT MOVING).


Lastly, but not leastly (I hope...) are the "other", where they don't quite fully fit into one of the above.
Halfling Opportunist: It's a very solid class, that's worth a look for any non-caster Halfling.
Living Monolith: On the whole, it would fall into the Flavor category. As a Dip it's just plain awesome for Melee builds (3/day, Swift action, self Enlarge Person with a duration of 6 minutes!).