AC Ramp

[Hyde]

I would like to pump my AC through the roof, and already have a pretty good start on it.

I'd like to get my con or my cha bonus to AC, but would like to hear everything.

I'm a Warforged Paladin 12. 3.PF basically everything is available. I can tweak some class levels for a small dip, but would like to avoid that if possible.

The target AC is 39+

Edit:
Paladin 9/Sorc 1/Arcane Duelist 2 means
Base=10
Dex +5
Mithral Plating +5
Armored Kilt+1
Enhancement to plating +5
Cha+8
Ring of Prot+3
Amulet of Natch +3
Half Celestial Natch +1
Shield Spell +4
Dodge +1

=46.

Since I already took half the skills for the PRC, I'm probably going to jump Combat Panache next level, so that'll be another 13 w/smite active vs one target, if I'm doing my math right.

That should be enough to never be hit. Ever.

I like Divine Grace too much to give that up. my saves are all a minimum of +20.

[Mithril Leaf]

If you pick up a metamorphic skin and the assume supernatural ability psionic feat you can turn into a glora for charisma to AC and Saves. Note that those first two are not the names but I'm too lazy to look them up.

[dextercorvia]

Deepwarden get's Con instead of Dex to AC. Fist of the Forest gets Con to AC. There is a Paladin ACF that gets Charisma to AC instead of Saves, but I think it might limited times per day. IIRC, it is in Champions of Valor, which I don't own. A one level dip in Battle Dancer gets Cha to AC. Arcane Duelist gets Cha to AC.

To stay as close to what you listed as possible, a BattleDancer1/Sorcerer1/Paladin4/AbjurantChampion4/ArcaneDuelist2 would have Charisma to AC twice or three times, in addition to being able to cast Shield and Luminous Armor with a bonus to the AC there. A conservative 20 Charisma would put you at AC 10+9(Armor)+8(Shield)+Dex+10(Cha -- Maybe 15). That puts you at an AC of 37(or 42)+ Dex, without miscellaneous magical items like Ring of Deflection, or Amulet of Natural Armor.

[nedz]

AC 39 is not that high.

I thought that there was an AC handbook, but I couldn't find one ?

Ah - its in the XtoYStat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) handbook.

[eggs]

Yeah, the Charisma-to-AC Paladin (EDIT: Champions of Valor version, not PF) has severe limit issues.

But Law Devotion, Smite, Adamantine Body an animated shield and a couple Magic Vestments from the party Cleric or Battleblessinged Sanctify Armor or Vestments of the Champion and you'll either be there or be close (5 Sacred, [Cha] Divine, 11 Armor, 5 Shield = 31 base; some mix or selection of: a decent charisma, ring of natural armor, defending weapon, combat expertise or Divine Shield would push it the rest of the way).

[Demon of Death]

I thought that there was an AC handbook, but I couldn't find one ?

Or the other AC Handbook. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ke6k2om2s9vm3ma184o9ofpml2&topic=3962.0)

[nedz]

Or the other AC Handbook. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ke6k2om2s9vm3ma184o9ofpml2&topic=3962.0)

Oh, excellent - but still a WIP I see.

[Randomguy]

Deepwarden get's Con instead of Dex to AC. Fist of the Forest gets Con to AC. There is a Paladin ACF that gets Charisma to AC instead of Saves, but I think it might limited times per day. IIRC, it is in Champions of Valor, which I don't own. A one level dip in Battle Dancer gets Cha to AC. Arcane Duelist gets Cha to AC.

To stay as close to what you listed as possible, a BattleDancer1/Sorcerer1/Paladin4/AbjurantChampion4/ArcaneDuelist2 would have Charisma to AC twice or three times, in addition to being able to cast Shield and Luminous Armor with a bonus to the AC there. A conservative 20 Charisma would put you at AC 10+9(Armor)+8(Shield)+Dex+10(Cha -- Maybe 15). That puts you at an AC of 37(or 42)+ Dex, without miscellaneous magical items like Ring of Deflection, or Amulet of Natural Armor.

If you're going to go this way then you might as well take a 1 level monk dip and the Aescetic Mage feat for another Cha to AC, so that's 3 or 4 (with paladin ACF) times Cha to AC.

If you don't go Abjurant Champion, then get yourself an Eternal Wand of Magic Vestment at high CL and cast it on your shield/armour every day. Get an animated shield, so that you don't actually need to carry it. Oh, and remember that 2 +1 to AC items cost less than a single +2 to AC item.

If you are an Abjurant Champion, then consider taking Arcane disciple (darkness) at higher levels, to get access to Armour of Darkness, which adds a deflection bonus to AC (so it stacks with mage armour and so and such) and it gets boosted by Abjurant Champion, too.

Get yourself some +1 defending armour spikes or spiked gauntlets. Then hit them with a high CL magic weapon to make them +5, and transfer all of that to AC (except when you actually use your gauntlets).

If you have two feats to spare, then take Bind Vestige -> Improved Bind Vestige and bind Dahlver Nar to get half of your Con added to your natural armour. Only worth it if you've got a decent con bonus.

Check the x stat y bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) thread, scroll down and look under AC.

[dextercorvia]

If you're going to go this way then you might as well take a 1 level monk dip and the Aescetic Mage feat for another Cha to AC, so that's 3 or 4 (with paladin ACF) times Cha to AC.

If you don't go Abjurant Champion, then get yourself an Eternal Wand of Magic Vestment at high CL and cast it on your shield/armour every day. Get an animated shield, so that you don't actually need to carry it. Oh, and remember that 2 +1 to AC items cost less than a single +2 to AC item.

If you are an Abjurant Champion, then consider taking Arcane disciple (darkness) at higher levels, to get access to Armour of Darkness, which adds a deflection bonus to AC (so it stacks with mage armour and so and such) and it gets boosted by Abjurant Champion, too.

Get yourself some +1 defending armour spikes or spiked gauntlets. Then hit them with a high CL magic weapon to make them +5, and transfer all of that to AC (except when you actually use your gauntlets).

If you have two feats to spare, then take Bind Vestige -> Improved Bind Vestige and bind Dahlver Nar to get half of your Con added to your natural armour. Only worth it if you've got a decent con bonus.

Check the x stat y bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) thread, scroll down and look under AC.

Three problems with the Monk dip. One is that both the Battle Dancer and Monk ability is called AC Bonus, which some interpret to be same source, and hence no stacking. The second issue, is that feats are going to be tight already in the build. Third, Monk's Belt does it better (unless you can get some of the feats we need for Arcane Duelist from the Monk Dip, that would come out about even with costing Ascetic Mage).

Both Battle Dancer, and Monk require you to not wear armor to benefit from their AC Bonus.

Let's see, assuming your DM let's it stack (it isn't that uncommon) and Fractional BAB, try:

CobraStrikeMonk2/BattleDancer1/Paladin2/Sorcerer1/AbjurantChapion4/ArcaneDuelist2

1:Ascetic Mage
Monk1:Dodge
Monk2:Mobility
3:Arcane Preparation
6:Combat Casting
9:Free
12:Free

Yeah, the Monk dip really helped out feat wise. You end up missing out on Turn Undead, but that is about it.

You can still cast Luminous Armor, and cast Shield as a swift action as needed.

[Invader]

Wasn't there a debate before about adding an ability score to something more than once and how it generally isn't allowed to be added more than once to the same thing?

[ericgrau]

AC 39 is not that high.
I assume you mean theoretically, in that the OP could really do better with some op fu.

Just looking at my notes for level 12: ~30 is decent, ~37 will force most foes to roll a nat 20 to hit and ~44 will force the BBEG to roll a nat 20 to hit. Assuming the DM scales up encounters to match the high optimization he might shoot for a couple more points. So 39-46 is a pretty good goal.

I don't think the DM will continue to scale up monsters beyond that because then other forms of attack start becoming too much of a threat. So at 39 AC and higher it becomes less and less necessary (more and more monsters need a 20 to hit whether he increases it or not) and he should start looking into other defenses, offense and so on.

Assumptions:
"most foes" (or a hard foe): 4 foes at CR = level - 2 ==> EL = level + 2
"BBEG": CR = level + 2. With minions EL = level + 3 or higher
both cases: attack bonus similar to typical PC melee of level = CR. i.e., good, probably ~2 above the average monster of that CR.

[dextercorvia]

Wasn't there a debate before about adding an ability score to something more than once and how it generally isn't allowed to be added more than once to the same thing?

Not that I know of. The debate is in whether the AC Bonus of Monk, and AC Bonus of Battle Dancer (or some other class, there are several) qualify as the same source, since they have the same name. Curmudgeon says they are the same, and therefore don't stack. A lot of more casual players don't even think about it, since it isn't exactly the same ability.

[ericgrau]

There's also an issue with deepwarden's con instead of dex to AC. Dex to AC is capped by the armor and this works the same way. You could try to argue that it isn't but it's really pushing the bounds of the wording to favor the player. What's more FAQ says it is in fact limited by your armor's max dex.

The rules for no stacking from the same source aren't often noticed. That's the bigger reason why most casual players won't use them. But besides that they're about as general and vague as the sentence I just wrote. So it's open to debate and opinion. IMO use common sense and think of where the benefit comes from. If it sounds like the same method then it shouldn't stack. So IMO two different classes with the same ability probably wouldn't stack unless the fluff is somehow radically different in spite of this.

[sonofzeal]

Not that I know of. The debate is in whether the AC Bonus of Monk, and AC Bonus of Battle Dancer (or some other class, there are several) qualify as the same source, since they have the same name. Curmudgeon says they are the same, and therefore don't stack. A lot of more casual players don't even think about it, since it isn't exactly the same ability.
Also, absolutely nothing in the stacking rules suggests that the name of the ability matters. So there's that, too. :smalltongue:

The standard items:

- Armor enhancements
- Shield enhancements (note: bucklers can be used with greatswords without Improved Buckler Defence, but later on you may want an Animated Tower Shield. If you're forbidden to use a shield, Ring of Force Shield helps)
- Ring of Protection
- Amulet of Natural Armor
- Dusty Rose Ioun Stone (5k for a slotless +1 AC is pretty sweet)
- Defending Armor/Shield Spikes (best with GMW)
- Skin of the Defender (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#skinoftheDefender) (note: the XPH version stacks with Amulet of Natural Armor, but the MIC version doesn't)

[Hyde]

I'm going to update the original post with some details, but I think I've made a decision.

I'll gonna take a three-level hit to paladin for Sorc1 Arcane Duelist 2, it gives me some slick utility without much loss. I'm not really digging the two-feat (dodge and mobility are kinda synergistic with what I'm doing, but not really). A level or two of Fighter might be in my future to comp the feat loss. who knows.