Kobolds and Fleeing

[Vesth]

I recently ran some kobolds in my campaign, and I realise just how good they are at running away.


Kobolds are cowardly and usually flee
once bloodied unless a strong leader is present.

So, the moment they are bloodied, they can shift as a Minor Action (shifty), and double move to get the hell away from the PCs. Moving at 12 squares a round, this immediatedly puts them away from Melee PCs, and Ranged PCs can get off at most one more shot to kill them off.

Did I get this right? If so, this makes them almost as irritating to kill as Wraiths.

Are there any more monsters that can escape easily in the middle of battle?

[Kurald Galain]

Are there anymore monsters that can escape easily in the middle of battle?

Oh yes, easily. For starters, anything with high movement, teleportation, or phasing. Especially phasing.

The thing is, if Team Monster runs away, that means the PCs have defeated them, get full XP for the encounter, and move on.

[Alienist]

My current DM basically rules that monsters which get to the edge of the map get away freely.

It is kind of disappointing to have the whole team wail on the monster for a number of rounds and then have it get away (in many respects this is a bit like kill-stealing. Technically we are all part of a team and so technically it doesn't matter... )

I'm just hoping that when our turn finally comes to run away that we can be extended the same 'courtesy'...

NB: can the kobold actually move 13? A double move for 12 and shift as a minor?

Followup question:
Can I move and then charge? E.g. if I have a speed of 6 I have an effective charge range of 12?

[Adoendithas]

Unless they come back and ambush them later. Thunderspire Labyrinth actually says in some encounters that the leader flees when at 1/4 thp, then returns with more minions to ambush them in a later encounter if he escapes. My party got halfway through a big encounter in the last session, which they think they've completely finished. One of the monsters surrendered when at 10hp, and the other used Invisibility and fled.

[Iados, Quarion, and Kriv, STOP READING NOW!]

But the one who surrendered has a ring with Drow poison on it, and the other is actually sneaking back around to activate one of the other traps in the room. And a dwarf and a tiefling who fled from random encounters before have been gathering followers and preparing to attack the PCs when they return to the town. I'll give them full XP again, but this wouldn't have happened if they hadn't assumed the encounter was over.

EDIT: You are able to charge 12 squares like that. As DM I allow thgem to combine the movement as though it's a double move, so you can charge better through difficult terrain, but I don't think that's RAW.

[TheBajaBojo]

^
shouldn't have written that, even as a spoiler...

Also, weirdly shaped things are good at running away, as far as I know.
That would be swarms and oozes and things like that, cuz they resist half melee damage...

Do they still have the invisible man in 4e?

[Vesth]

Ok, thanks guys.

I didn't realise that, with charge, you can double move, and attack. Neither did my players, actually.

On the other hand, yes, I do think that the kobold can effectively move 13 squares because of 'shifty'. So, it still moves faster than a fighter double moving. Not to mention all the speed penalties armor will give.

Of course, now the problem is it's not really gratifying, unless you somehow manage to corner them, or like one of my players, somehow manages to do 1d12+1d6+7 damage. And with Elemental Escalation, +1d10 damage and it attacks 2 targets. Seriously, I think this firebolt attack is more than a tad overpowered.

The other problem is loot, of course, and you can't just have a random treasure chest in the middle of a forest. Is there a way to introduce loot properly without having them chase the one kobold that manages to escape all the way into a kobold lair?

[TheBajaBojo]

Sry, I meant to say:do they still have the invisible stalker

Anyways, you could leave your players a map, that one of the(now dead) enemies has hidden in his pocket(might lead to another adventure), or the kobolds were just after hiding a cache, when the players strolled in, or it could be in a sack up on the tree(the kobolds hid it), or the kobolds put it inside a dead deer to hide it and an ancient dire bear swallowed it,.....

the possibilities are endless, just keep it reasonable(unlike me).

Or you could give them nothing yet, instead store it up,and give them twice the treasure at the end, because the kobolds' master is ,more likely than not, a dragon.

[Vesth]

Thanks for the ideas, though I probably won't use the dragon one.

I like to think that dragons are the very symbol of power, intelligent and dangerous, probably the pinnacle of an adventurer's career. One of the best things an adventurer can add to his title is Dragonslayer, and will be much revered for such an act. So, I won't let my level one players anywhere near a dragon at this point.

[TheBajaBojo]

you can always say that it's a gelatinous cube that swallowed the dragon while it slept, and has a dragon skeleton inside it....

Just kidding, but it's always nice to put those extra ideas out there.

[Adoendithas]

That would be one big gelatinous cube. Does the Monster Manual say how big they can get? :smalltongue:

[angroy]

I think they're normally a large creature, 2x2 squares, big enough to engulf a small dragon, but I recon you could make a giant version of anything if you feel the need pretty easily - lower it's AC, bump up it's HP, XP and Level, maybe change some other stats. Easy.

[Sipex]

Keep in mind, fleeing is circumstantial and can be treated differently depending on the situation. A Kobold in the presence of it's dragon master would not (imo) flee at all, but instead fight to it's dying breath.

Kobolds who are fleeing from standard combat would likely have traps set up nearby to lure chasing adventurers through or hidey holes to allow them to slink away.

[Snowbody]

My current DM basically rules that monsters which get to the edge of the map get away freely.

I'd think that pursuing a fleeing enemy past the edge of the map would be a skill challenge.


NB: can the kobold actually move 13? A double move for 12 and shift as a minor?

Anyone who's fleeing should consider using the Run action -- move 2 more than your speed. You can double run, so if your speed is 6 your range is 16 (17 if you can shift on a minor)


Can I move and then charge? E.g. if I have a speed of 6 I have an effective charge range of 12?

Don't forget about running -- it's -5 to attacks, but if your target ran it grants CA. Unfortunately the charge doesn't get the +2 to speed. So if you have a speed of 6 you can attack an enemy up to 15 squares away. But it's debatable if attacking at -5 is "effective" or not.

[Doug Lampert]

Ok, thanks guys.

I didn't realise that, with charge, you can double move, and attack. Neither did my players, actually.

On the other hand, yes, I do think that the kobold can effectively move 13 squares because of 'shifty'. So, it still moves faster than a fighter double moving. Not to mention all the speed penalties armor will give.

Of course, now the problem is it's not really gratifying, unless you somehow manage to corner them, or like one of my players, somehow manages to do 1d12+1d6+7 damage. And with Elemental Escalation, +1d10 damage and it attacks 2 targets. Seriously, I think this firebolt attack is more than a tad overpowered.

The other problem is loot, of course, and you can't just have a random treasure chest in the middle of a forest. Is there a way to introduce loot properly without having them chase the one kobold that manages to escape all the way into a kobold lair?

That sort of thing is why my PCs ALWAYS have at least one person with lots of speed boosts (at Epic levels the Paladin in full plate can move 9 or so and has additional conditional boosts available) and ALWAYS carry ranged weapons and my players don't think track is a tool of GM railroading but rather a useful tool in the PC's arsenal.

Loot comes if you actually defeat and capture or kill the foes. OTOH I'm normally willing to have captives be ransomed or used as a negotiating tool, so taking prisoners is good.

But starting at level 1 an Elf can consistently outrun a Kobold, and there are plenty of ways to go faster as you level up. Also starting at level 1 a wizard can at-will slow a foe on a hit, and there are plenty of ways to slow or immobilize or knock prone a foe as you level up.

But if you do nothing to stop them then running kobolds go 17 squares. (1 shift +16 double run).

If there are serious terrain obstacles then you can't even charge (but note that lots of stuff that would stop a charge in 3.x won't do so in fourth).

[Adoendithas]

OT, but how can a wizard at-will slow an enemy? Which power is that?

[Kurald Galain]

OT, but how can a wizard at-will slow an enemy? Which power is that?

Ray of Frost, straight from the PHB. Or Stoneblood if your DM allows the not-quite-compatible "starter" box. Assuming the target is still within the 10-square range, of course.