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TekHed
2012-09-09, 11:00 AM
Shard has Dura (You keep what you kill...it's the necromonger way...).

Daiya or Xax can grab the shield.

You do realize that she will have used Adaptive Style to recover her maneuvers by the time you get up there...???

P.S. I'll mark off a charge from the wand.

Postmodernist
2012-09-09, 11:20 AM
Xaxhan will get the shield. I wish there were something else we could do to finish this punk off.

Sallera
2012-09-09, 01:57 PM
Hm, guess I need some more info from Fallen. Once Grimmgang pokes his head out the window, he'll spot Ethras above him, standing on the lip of the roof.

AoO if he advances normally:[roll0]
Damage: [roll1] + 1 con
That aside, you can post the rest of your turn.

TheFallenOne
2012-09-09, 02:01 PM
I still have my standard at that point, so I could draw a hammer and attack her?

Postmodernist
2012-09-09, 02:03 PM
I think I have a crazy idea. I'll post as soon as the latest IC round is updated.

Sallera
2012-09-09, 02:21 PM
Aye, although you're threatened at that point (reach weapon), so if you use a ranged attack, you'll take the AoO anyway.

Postmodernist
2012-09-09, 03:31 PM
Bah! Almost a crit!

TheFallenOne
2012-09-09, 03:41 PM
One short of avoiding the Tumble AoO... Reluctantly, I scratch off another AP.

Postmodernist
2012-09-09, 03:46 PM
Great last post, Fallen, btw. I like the idea that Grimmy thinks that these foes are fanatical monsters truly worthy of his enmity, not soldiers worthy of his grudging respect.

TheFallenOne
2012-09-09, 04:03 PM
Thanks. I quite enjoy exploring the broken psyche of a man who knew nothing but war. What was is, 100 years? The collective trauma of that must be staggering.

In other news, Xaxhan is a dirty killstealer.

Postmodernist
2012-09-09, 04:29 PM
Hey, I'm just glad she's dead. Besides, Xax is a dedicated support hero with a heavy buffing emphasis. I freely admit that fight was all Grimmgang, but sometimes you just gotta jump out of a window and shoot a bow at somebody like you're in a medieval John Woo movie.

TekHed
2012-09-09, 07:18 PM
WOOHOO!!!!

NICELY done Posty! I agree...'twas epic fantasy slow motion woo...even visually with the feather fall...ha! :smallbiggrin:

How epic was that? Oh man, all three battles, back to back to back.

So good. Well done everyone. Thank you Sal, for being awesome and devoted.

Also, since Shard has Dura, Grimm has Ethras, Xaxhan leapt while firing, it's up to Daiya to pack up Grimmy's shield.

Now, let's get to shore and....LOOT THE BODIES! :smallcool:

TheFallenOne
2012-09-09, 07:36 PM
Should we pick up the unconscious dandy boy we left behind?

Two dead people of rank with us(or one, Ethras seemed not that important despite her level), gotta use Speak with Dead on both of them.

TekHed
2012-09-09, 07:51 PM
I was just thinking we ought to do that, and since he is alive (and can be threatened to just kill him and use Speak with Dead after), we should interrogate him thoroughly...back on the ship of course...

We need to crack open the journal asap, and be mindful of that spy, or scrying, or other means by which they have been beating us to the punch.

Speaking of which...do you think that the spy knew who Daiya was when she had that conversation with him? I wasn't clear but it seemed like one of those "you know you're talking to you enemy, but the acknowledgment is all subtext while the surface is pleasantries" kind of thing, but I may be mistaken...

Postmodernist
2012-09-10, 12:18 AM
Out of curiosity, what specifically would we ask our dandy friend? Aside from their apparent capacity to beat us to the punch and why they want the McGuffin (which is self-explanatory for McGuffin-ey reasons), what else would be of interest?

TheFallenOne
2012-09-11, 05:23 PM
So, who's waiting on who/what?


Speaking of which...do you think that the spy knew who Daiya was when she had that conversation with him? I wasn't clear but it seemed like one of those "you know you're talking to you enemy, but the acknowledgment is all subtext while the surface is pleasantries" kind of thing, but I may be mistaken...

Struck me as an independent contractor. Did odd jobs for the Claw, but isn't affiliated with them.


Out of curiosity, what specifically would we ask our dandy friend? Aside from their apparent capacity to beat us to the punch and why they want the McGuffin (which is self-explanatory for McGuffin-ey reasons), what else would be of interest?

Not sure how much he knows, Dura seemed in charge of the whole thing. What we like to know, let's see... Where the ship came from, where it was expected to go once the acquired the journal, who was to meet them there and whether they were supposed to send a signal if successful with a Sending Stone or the like.
If there was no signal, we have some time until the Claw learns we sacked their group; how much depends on the distance to their port.

We need to know who Dura answers to, and where their other active groups are. We are far from their main base of power, and this is the third time we wiped one of their detachments. The ogres said they're mercenaries, so maybe they're running a bit lower on their available manpower.

Postmodernist
2012-09-11, 09:58 PM
Aaaaand I'm ninja'd IC. Looks like we need to find this Thraxis fellow. Back to Regalport for some more Gather Information rolls and the like?

Sallera
2012-09-11, 10:02 PM
Fixed that. Can't have ninja in the IC thread. :3

Sallera
2012-09-11, 10:07 PM
4775xp for Shard, Daiya, and Xaxhan, 4001xp for Grimmgang. Loot from Ethras is her weapon, chain shirt, and a ring.

TheFallenOne
2012-09-11, 10:11 PM
^^

how old was the journal again? Wondering what the chances are of the gnome still being around. That's kinda troublesome actually, cause now there's a second way to learn the way to the tomb. So if we draw attention to the guy we can lose our advantage.

I wonder if with sufficient knowledge we could just replicate what Eliam learned of the symbols to open the entrance. You know, just ignore the Thraxis lead and either bring Sur'kil along or communicate with liberal Sending use. Daiya just reached 7th and has Sending on her class list.

Sallera
2012-09-11, 10:36 PM
The journal's probably not more than twenty, thirty years old. The gnome's almost certainly still around, if he hasn't been killed.

Also, edited the experience amounts above; missed one.

Postmodernist
2012-09-11, 11:04 PM
^^

how old was the journal again? Wondering what the chances are of the gnome still being around. That's kinda troublesome actually, cause now there's a second way to learn the way to the tomb. So if we draw attention to the guy we can lose our advantage.

I wonder if with sufficient knowledge we could just replicate what Eliam learned of the symbols to open the entrance. You know, just ignore the Thraxis lead and either bring Sur'kil along or communicate with liberal Sending use. Daiya just reached 7th and has Sending on her class list.

Woohoo! Xaxhan dings. It may be a while before I complete leveling him up; I am super busy this week, though I may have some time soon. I'll be on it ASAP, though.

The Thraxis thing could be an issue, since it might provide the Claw another avenue of discovering the Tomb, though they're a step behind already without the journal.

TekHed
2012-09-12, 10:26 AM
Ding! :thog:

Sal, now that I'm at a leveling point, I'd like to make some more tweaks to Shard, and have some stuff I'd like to take in the future that I want to ask you about ahead of time. Would that be alright?

Also, I am really enjoying this game! Feels like we're in an Indiana Jones movie...we got to the grail diary before the nazis Emerald Claw. :smallbiggrin:

Sallera
2012-09-12, 11:10 AM
Yes, please do ask me before making changes this time. It would be even better if you could just restrain yourself to the usual single retrain option like everyone else in the party.

TekHed
2012-09-12, 11:51 AM
Eh...It's a little more complicated than that. As you know I've struggled at times with Shard, and it's taken me awhile to get a handle on what he is, in terms of story and also in the theme of what I am trying to accomplish with his build. I've made some awkward choices that I would like to fix. More of a minor rebuild. Same classes, just different orders of things, and a real clear sense now of what his build is actually supposed to be/accomplish.

Should I enumerate my desired/proposed changes here?

Sallera
2012-09-12, 12:00 PM
I suppose you may as well; I'll take a look. But really, you shouldn't be rebuilding every level.

TheFallenOne
2012-09-12, 12:14 PM
Either way, let's get some Identify castings after rest :smallcool:

And a Sending to Sur'kil, informing him we know the location of the tomb. He might have some valuable information on the island.

How much would I know about Prince Rhygar with untrained knowledge local and nobility?

TekHed
2012-09-12, 12:29 PM
I know. After this I should be set. I'll post it up later when I get back to my notes.

What was the loot from Dura again?

Postmodernist
2012-09-12, 05:49 PM
Either way, let's get some Identify castings after rest :smallcool:

And a Sending to Sur'kil, informing him we know the location of the tomb. He might have some valuable information on the island.

How much would I know about Prince Rhygar with untrained knowledge local and nobility?

Agreement on all points. Xaxhan, as a former inhabitant of the Principalities, know something about Rygar, but why? To tip him off about the Claw and maybe get some assistance? That would be nice.

Never mind. I just had some forum issues, so I read the IC post. I now know why we'd need to talk to Rygar. Sal, does Xax know anything?

MoleMage
2012-09-12, 09:31 PM
Ding as well! I need to remember to add my level up stuff in now...

EDIT:
Oh glorious day, 4th level spells.

EDIT EDIT: And I got the level up done.

TheFallenOne
2012-09-12, 10:04 PM
Great! All level 7, so finally I won't get less XP than everyone else on the next batch :smalltongue:

Still so few HP on Daiya... But lots of gold. I'd consider +2 con, or perhaps an Amulet of Tears.

TekHed
2012-09-12, 10:16 PM
How much gold exactly? :smallsmile:

TekHed
2012-09-13, 05:03 AM
Ok. As a heads up this is going to be a Very (Very) Long Post. I've done my best to make it readable and digestible.

Context:

First I'd like to set the context, because yes I know, I can't keep doing this. I've spent a LOT of time thinking about what I want and how to transform my ideas into something that will be both effective and have enough variety and versatility to be interesting and fun.

So you know I've struggled at times in making effective choices with Shard, both in the build and also playing to his strengths properly. I've also been a bit unclear on thematically how he fits into Eberron, and was his guiding theme should be both in terms of story and build design.

I originally made him as a DMM Persist Divine Power cleric, to make up for his shortcomings in melee. My premise was to make a refluffed RKV that combined martial maneuvers, psionics, and cleric casting. Persist Divine Power was supposed to make up for Psychic Theurge's abysmal chassis. Then I realized how boring that was, and I rebuilt him before, ditching Planning Domain for what I eventually settled on Protection Devotion. However I didn't realize that it doesn't stack with Law Devotion (sacred bonuses) at the time.

The other thing was that I noticed that Shard and Auran were getting too similar, both were going towards a Sundering idea, which I've come to learn is a bad strategy all around. I got really clear about Auran, and decided that his design is going to be all about Auras so I recently clarified his build and gave him Protection Devotion, ditching the improved sunder.

So what about Shard? I'm keeping his Triune philosophy, but his design is going to be a combination of mobility and tanking/retributive style fighting.

As per his backstory which is coming into focus, that he is like the Terminator...only reversed. The Avatar of the Quori of the previous age foresaw the coming nightmares, and how that nightmare sought to become stasis, but couldn't come forward...all it could send was a tiny tiny Shard of itself into the nightmare with the hopes of restoring an age of light and good.

This fits nicely into what I've been reading about the Quori...how the Dreaming Darkness is both an entity as well as an organization. In fact, I was kind of hoping, if we are all still into the game (and In think we are on an amazing roll here!) after the module, and Sal is game (or I can find someone else to take us on if not), we could have our heroes journey with Shard to Sarlona and have another campaign there. It is exotic and I've never seen an Eberron game actually set there. It could be really fun, and maybe if you didn't want to keep playing your current characters we could still stick together as a successful troupe and you could make some Kalashtar or something. Just some ideas and we're still a ways off from that (though a fifth of the way through our new OOC thread mre weeks after it's inception!), but I am digressing...

Time Travel. Retributive Build. Psionics. Maneuvers. Spells. A Ruby Knight Vindicator actually made out of Ruby; a psionic being of positive energy inhabiting a deep crystal shell. Freedom fighter and righteous warrior of the dark, protector and keeper of the light.

That's the context...

Proposed Rebuild:



1) Swap Celestial for Quori (That and updating his xp, level and APs are the only changes I've made thus far as I wanted it to be kosher with everyone first this time).

2) Switch order of classes to Cloistered Cleric 2, Ardent 1, Cloistered Cleric +1, Crusader 1, Ardent +1, (and now Psychic Theurge 1)

3) Get rid of extra turning. I'm not going to use DMM anymore and while I will need turning for RKV, I'll have Charisma boosting items and ideally one or two (but not more than two) Nightsticks (assuming it is ok with Sal; I don't plan to abuse them, will say more in the RKV section below) to use to play with my RKV features.

4) Law Devotion becomes first level feat. Aligns with Knowledge Devotion from Cloistered Cleric.

5) Practiced Manifester gets bumped down to 3rd level to align with Ardent 1.

6) I would like to take Psionic Meditation as my 6th level feat so that, with your permission Sal, I can take Deep Impact as my 9th level feat. I would ask you to waive the feat prerequisite of Psionic Weapon, but I can only use it when wielding my deep crystal weapon...which does pretty much exactly what the feat does just from being Deep Crystal, only spending PP rather than expending focus, which you couldn't do and use Deep Impact at the same time anyways.

7) Theme and Domains: First it was Time/Planning, then Time/Protection, but seeing as how I've never used the Protection Domain feat in game (and am giving the aura to Auran instead), I would like to retcon the second domain again (and for the last time) to Travel and take the Domain rather than the Devotion feat. This makes Shard's domains Time/Travel. :smallcool: My original psionic power picks were fly, freedom of movement, teleport, etc. but I realized that these are domain spells for Travel, and by taking them there, it then let's me use my psi powers to focus on the retributive fighting style. Also, I have never once used or applied my second domain IC so it makes the retconning easy.

8) Psionics. I realized this as I was looking at the Ardent's restrictions regarding primary and and secondary mantles. I realized that I wanted to take the largest number of powers from the Justice Mantle, and even though the Force Shield from Force Mantle is a key theme, I realized that I did not want a single other Force power on the current mantle. Since Force was primary, this was really messing with my ability to take powers later. The other thing was that even though I used Dissolving Weapon once IC, that whole idea was irrelevant since I mainly took the Mantle for the Improved Sunder power. Between Mountain Hammer, Deep Crystal charging, and Xachan's DFI, an extra 4d6 damage that requires a standard action to load is now very unappealing. Destruction Domain also seems to not mesh as well with the rest of Shard's theme (and btw him cutting down a surrendering enemy was a post-editing glitch between Sal and I!)

I also found the Mind's Eye web enhancement which makes it legal to customize mantles subject to thematic appropriateness and your DMs approval.

So new Mantle Layout for Shard:

Freedom/Justice/Guardian (has the same thematic robustness as Time/Travel eh?!)

Mantle Customizations:

Freedom stays as is, with the exception of adding Inconstant Location as a Level 6

Justice: (Retribution)
1) Precognition Defensive
1) Precognition Offensive
2) Empathic Transfer
2) Incite Bravery
3) Empathic Transfer, Hostile
4) Empathic Feedback
5) True Seeing, Psionic
6) Perfect Riposte
7) Reddopsi

Rationale: The feel of Justice wavered between Inquisitor Style and Retribution. This version is now much more focused on balance, action, reaction. adjusting offense and defense as the situation requires, and giving back the damage that an enemy dishes out. This becomes crucial to my build as Psychic Theruge has TERRIBLE hit die to be going for this style...normally. I hope.

Get rid of Destruction Mantle. Replace with Guardian with the following Substitutions:

Guardian:
- Add Force Screen at 1
- Sub Thicken Skin for Vigor at 1. A mantle power that let's me soak someone else's damage should have something to help me survive it.
- Replace Wall of Ectoplasm with Intellect Fortress as 4th level power.

If I'm going to survive while meat-shielding with d4 hit points I need more than weak DR to handle what it, which brings me to:

9) Research Powers. This depends on how long I have for Shard to research but I recently discovered that RAW (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#independentResearch) any manifester can research any power by paying xp and spending time.

I would therefore like to research Vigor and Share Pain, to use the Psicrystal trick and give Shard a bit more staying power as we level and enemies get tougher (and make the fact that I blew a feat on Psicrystal Affinity worth something). That should take 2 weeks and 400 xp. Others on my research list are Energy Adaptation (specified) and/or Damp Power so as too deal with any more sonic unpleasantness...but probably won't have time for all that.

On a related note Sal, what it your view on the seemingly endless, "do Psicrystals get feats for their Hit Die" argument? Psychic Theurge says it doesn't advance psicrystals (though I know you said you would allow it so I can get my crystal to fly for thematic reasons), but this doesn't make sense with the SRD which states that psicrystals advance with your manifesting *classes*, which would indicate its based on your levels in psionic classes but not tied to just one...

10) Planning Ahead: Ruby Knight Vindicator

I would like for Shard to live up to this awesome name. I would also like to tweak/customize RKV as a PrC that actually represents Shard's Triune concept. In other words, making Shard the only one in the context of the game world; THE Ruby Knight Vindicator...

I propose the following changes:

- Refluff Wee Jas to The Cruciform Light. Easy.

- Shard is about the furthest from Stealthy as it gets, so the sneaky aspect of the PrC need to go. I propose replacing the Hide/Intimidate prereqs with Psicraft 4 and Autohypnosis 4 respectively. New prereqs: add "Manifest 1st level powers" alongside the cleric casting and maneuver prerqs. Feat prereq: Psionic Meditation.

- Levels 1 and 6 add +1 level to manifesting class.

-Replace Armored Stealth class feature with the following:

Divine Focus: Expend a Turn Undead Attempt as a Swift action to regain psionic focus.

So...now it is Thematically a Triune class: Divine Recovery, Divine Focus, Divine Impetus, all converging to make Turn Undead useful for maneuvers, psionics, and actions.

Also, I support the conservative and sensible interpretation that Divine Impetus only gives you ONE extra swift action per round, so please know that I'm not planning on abusing any of it. I'll need a +6 Cha item and hopefully a reliquary holy symbol and a nightstick or two (max), and I'll still be heavily limited in terms of how much of any of these abilities I can use. They do give me options to play with and be tactical about which is the driving goal.

Lastly, I may have mentioned this before, but I think it was a HUGE misstep that the Initiator PrCs don't add to base class for the purpose of swapping out lower level maneuvers. Casting PrCs don't penalize those classes yet adepts take a hit. I'm in the camp that thins it is stupid, and means you are stuck with vastly underpowered level inappropriate abilities at later levels. This is reaaly bad.

With your permission I'd like to house rule that I can swap or otherwise count RKV levels with my Crusader level for retraining. That way I can get trade Crusader's Strike for Revitalizing and Stone Bones to Iron Bones (or if you're feeling generous Adamantine Bones...the designers of Stone Dragon really dropped the ball with their discipline...DR 10/Adamantine at the level you get it obscenely inappropriate and I would be swapping around level 14, so it is about level appropriate.

TheFallenOne
2012-09-13, 01:34 PM
OK Tek, let me be honest here. Fun as it is with this group, I see two rather pronounced problems with your conception of D&D. Very common problems, actually quite usual among RPers. But I'm sure I'm not the only one who took notice.

First, the Special Snowflake Syndrome. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpecialSnowflakeSyndrome) I'm sure you all have seen that more than once. I know you really like Shard, so you want him to be special in the game world. And you go overboard with it. Previously your thought was a manifestation of Eberron(!) itself. Now basically a messiah figure sent into the future to save the world. With RKV as his and only his PrC.
It's a little much, especially for our level range. Though it must be pointed out I'm someone who often tries to keep things very low-key and firmly grounded in the setting without making up new stuff or creating something outlandish from the existing canon. Grimmgang is maybe a bad comparison because the whole idea is that he is something very common, a soldier who never managed to shake off the experiences and habits of lifelong war. What makes him unique and distinct is his cause of cleaning the Mournland, and frankly I'm surprised someone trying to do that isn't already canon.


What really concerns me though is the mechanics. People often think that awesome mechanics are required for an awesome character. If it is stronger it is better, not just in terms of power but also quality. This is why the Star Wars vs Star Trek or Wolverine vs Spider Man debates get heated. Not when they're talking about quality, but about who would win in a fight. The respective fans think that their favourite has to win, because he/it is better. Quite nonsensical if you think about it. In five minutes I can design an entity able to flat-out solo all of them. But that doesn't make him an interesting character in any way.

I've seen your recruiting threads, and you do seem to be extremely concerned with mechanical power. Very high PB, Gestalt, advanced feat progression...
And the same with Shard. What makes it really bad is that you don't just optimize; optimizing is making the best within the constraints of the rules. You break the rules, or ask for modifications that boil down to 'give me something for nothing' or 'give me something good in exchange for something weak'.
Like at the very start of the game when you wanted to add immunities to the template. You refused to remove a feat-equivalent in exchange and instead removed a minor feature, something Sallera let slide in light of your persistence not because it is a fair deal, but because 'I'm tired of repeating myself.' Shouldn't you at that point have realized your DM does not approve?
Then there was the spontaneous rebuilding. It was quite clear Sallera didn't like that, but he showed remarkable restraint; were it my game there'd have been a way stronger reaction.
Order of class levels is not a Retrain option. You moved Crusader to a later point to gain second level maneuvers. If you do the same thing again at 9th you can get third level maneuvers. But it is not legal. And if you didn't have that Crusader level from the beginning of the game you'd be dead thrice over.
Now you again want things for free. Just waive a feat prerequisite; Deep Impact has a lesser prerequisite for a reason, it's just that good. RKV advancing Manifesting on two levels in exchange for nothing. Replace the very minor ability Armored Stealth with easily a feat equivalent that just happens to have perfect synergy with Deep Impact.

So my advice on the matter: stay within the rules with your changes. No reordering of levels. No made-up or modified mantles with cherrypicked powers. Maybe add mantle/domain as Retrain option, but still just one Retrain per level.
That's my take on it; it's obviously Sallera's decision.

TekHed
2012-09-13, 02:40 PM
Grrr. Fallen I think you are being really unfair to me with your assessment.


OK Tek, let me be honest here. Fun as it is with this group, I see two rather pronounced problems with your conception of D&D. Very common problems, actually quite usual among RPers. But I'm sure I'm not the only one who took notice.

First, the Special Snowflake Syndrome. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpecialSnowflakeSyndrome) I'm sure you all have seen that more than once. I know you really like Shard, so you want him to be special in the game world. And you go overboard with it. Previously your thought was a manifestation of Eberron(!) itself. Now basically a messiah figure sent into the future to save the world. With RKV as his and only his PrC.

Dude...linking to TVTropes...that's dirty pool. :smalltongue:

Ok so in retrospect the Eberron thing was a bit much...I'd gone off on the notion that Shard was perhaps a living Dragonshard, or that the Cavern of the Cruciform was in one of the Syberis Asteroids. I still think that idea is damn cool.

I'm still learning about Eberron's particulars and wanted it to fit...you are correct in the special snowflake though...Shard is by concept and design unique...there aren't other Shards running around so that part is fair. It's the rest of it where you get me wrong. It was Sal's idea to run with the Quorri idea, and after reading more about them I have to agree, that it's perfect.

Honestly I am very sorry that I posted my wishes publicly, when I could have PMed Sal because now I feel like its going to be an argument between us and it's going to sour me on the whole game right when I'm feeling jazzed about it. And jazzed because I figured out a way for me to enjoy my character better, with things I was very unsatisfied with. You may not be aware of it but I'm in a RHoD game with Sal and my character there and Shard were getting too similar mechanically, so I want to separate them enough to make them enjoyable for me...that is why I wanted to give context for where my head was at and why this is important to me. Make no mistake, I wouldn't be asking for this if it wasn't very important to me.


It's a little much, especially for our level range. Though it must be pointed out I'm someone who often tries to keep things very low-key and firmly grounded in the setting without making up new stuff or creating something outlandish from the existing canon. Grimmgang is maybe a bad comparison because the whole idea is that he is something very common, a soldier who never managed to shake off the experiences and habits of lifelong war. What makes him unique and distinct is his cause of cleaning the Mournland, and frankly I'm surprised someone trying to do that isn't already canon.

Yeah, dude, except this is Eberron...Eberron is pulp...one of pulp's defining characteristics is larger than life, often one of a kind heroes doing exceptional things. Maybe that is why I like Eberron so much. And please for all that is holy, don't try and tell me how I *should* be playing or that I should enjoy the game in the same way or for the same reasons that you do. It's really unfair.



What really concerns me though is the mechanics. People often think that awesome mechanics are required for an awesome character. If it is stronger it is better, not just in terms of power but also quality. This is why the Star Wars vs Star Trek or Wolverine vs Spider Man debates get heated. Not when they're talking about quality, but about who would win in a fight. The respective fans think that their favourite has to win, because he/it is better. Quite nonsensical if you think about it. In five minutes I can design an entity able to flat-out solo all of them. But that doesn't make him an interesting character in any way.

Mechanics are a HUGE part of my enjoyment of DnD...as I said my understanding was rudimentary when I made Shard and the more I understood the more I became unhappy with my choices. If I was looking just for serious RP I'd go back to playing White Wolf games.

That said you are right in that mechanics alone don't make a fun character...that is why I have been trying to wrap my head around what Shard is exactly and what his purpose is and why he is so different.

At the same time, I want to enjoy my build...I want to enjoy my options and choices. My optimizing for Shard is because the way I was going I made a bunch of choices that I then realized were very bad choices that made me not very versatile and which was making me bored. Have you forgotten I pretty much dropped out of the game once over it? I *need* to enjoy my character's build and if I feel that I've done it wrong it is going to seriously undermine my enjoyment of it.


I've seen your recruiting threads, and you do seem to be extremely concerned with mechanical power. Very high PB, Gestalt, advanced feat progression...

My motto is ask for what you want, and go after it, and if one person doesn't like it, others will. I'm mostly tired of low level DnD and I've played enough games with Pathfinder feat progression or skill merges or low Point Buy or low starting levels. I'm quite happy with the level this game is at actually and I'm not planning on RKV until level 14 at the earliest.



And the same with Shard. What makes it really bad is that you don't just optimize; optimizing is making the best within the constraints of the rules. You break the rules, or ask for modifications that boil down to 'give me something for nothing' or 'give me something good in exchange for something weak'.
Like at the very start of the game when you wanted to add immunities to the template. You refused to remove a feat-equivalent in exchange and instead removed a minor feature, something Sallera let slide in light of your persistence not because it is a fair deal, but because 'I'm tired of repeating myself.' Shouldn't you at that point have realized your DM does not approve?
Then there was the spontaneous rebuilding. It was quite clear Sallera didn't like that, but he showed remarkable restraint; were it my game there'd have been a way stronger reaction.

Dude, it didn't make sense for a creature made of crystal to have blood and such. The immunity made sense at the time and was an oversight that should have been put into the revised template when I made it.

The spontaneous rebuild wasn't perfect either...I had been trying to figure out what to do since I gave up on the DMM idea...which meant half my choices were then useless...no one takes Planning Domain unless you are going to take Persist Spell. So, I've been trying to figure out what to replace it with. I had thought Protection Devotion was a good idea because I thought it would stack with Law Devotion, which it turns out it doesn't. On top of that I have my other character who is based around auras. So, I want them to be different build wise. I've separated them out. Bottom line, I had to come up with a better second Domain for Shard to replace Planning.


Order of class levels is not a Retrain option.

This isn't retraining. This is rebuilding. Which is technically a legal option.


You moved Crusader to a later point to gain second level maneuvers. If you do the same thing again at 9th you can get third level maneuvers. But it is not legal. And if you didn't have that Crusader level from the beginning of the game you'd be dead thrice over.

I'm not moving the order of anything around after this. When I made Shard I was new to pretty much everything that I was trying to do with him and I didn't understand the way initiator levels work. I ALSO didn't have a good grasp on Ardent mantles which meant I painted myself in a corner. In order to take higher levels in my third mantle I have to take more than that in in my primaries and there is literally only ONE force power that I want. Ever. The fact is, that RAW with the ACF mantles are totally customizable. In fact it looks like they were designed to be that way.



Now you again want things for free. Just waive a feat prerequisite; Deep Impact has a lesser prerequisite for a reason, it's just that good.

I have a design philosophy (drilled into me by other DMs) that you should NEVER spend a feat on something worthless. Never. They are too rare and precious. Things like "+2 to skill x" are Laaaame for feats.

Take Deep Impact. Feat Prerequisite: Psionic Weapon. Psionic Weapon lets me expend focus as a move action to add + 2d6 damage. Shard can already add +2d6 damage as a free action by spending 2 PP for his Deep Crystal Weapon. In effect, he already has a psionic weapon. The feat is redundant, and worse, I'll never use it because I have to expend focus for Deep Impact...its a worthless feat prereq. I can already do it...that is why I'm saying make it only work with my actual weapon that is a psionic weapon in the first place. It's not really a limitation, and isn't meant to be. It's just acknowledging that my equipment fills the prereq...kind of like you can buy an Martial Maneuver item to fill a prereq. In fact it is exactly the same.

I will literally *never* use Psionic Weapon if I had it, which means that in a tri-themed feat starved build I can't afford it. If I have to take something I will never ever use to get something that I will it's unfair and stupid and I won't do it. I usually ask DMs to waive "empty"prereqs like this and they almost always agree that you shouldn't waste a precious feat slot on something you won't ever use. As one says "empty levels are for mooks. Every feat should add to your build, even prereqs." Note this is why Spring Attack is considered such a horrible idea.



RKV advancing Manifesting on two levels in exchange for nothing. Replace the very minor ability Armored Stealth with easily a feat equivalent that just happens to have perfect synergy with Deep Impact.

And for a non full casting PrC that I won't take until 14th level (assuming we're even still playing) I think it's fair. You are hardly one to talk about customization...you made a brand new PrC for your character!

Armored Stealth is a class feature...class features should be at least equal to a feat. And the whole idea of Armored Stealth comes from the fluff of the class which I am throwing out the window. The class needs to be refluffed for Shard's purposes, which is a totally reasonable thing to do! Shard is not stealthy, so requiring him to take ranks in being stealthy that amount to him still not being stealthy is stupid and deserves to be changed in reworking the PrC to better fit the concept.

It's like this...there is no support in the game for a Tri-themed character. It requires some home brew to do. It also makes sense. Again, the RKV class features are limited in use per day by Turn Dead attempts so it's still really well balanced.


So my advice on the matter: stay within the rules with your changes. No reordering of levels.

Has to be done, sorry. All I'm doing is flipping Ardent with Cleric 3 (so I can put Practiced Manifester there).


No made-up or modified mantles with cherrypicked powers.

This is actually legal and RAW with the ACF. You are allowed to cherry pipck your mantles...that is why most of them are incomplete.


Maybe add mantle/domain as Retrain option, but still just one Retrain per level.

This isn't retraining. This is as I said a rebuild. I don't plan on making any changes after this.


That's my take on it; it's obviously Sallera's decision.

I wish you would have PMed me. Now Sal might feel torn between making one of us unhappy, and I will be very unhappy if I get stuck with my stupid mistakes that I made from an unrefined understanding of how to make a very complex tri-themed character actually work (as opposed to being spread too thin, which is almost the case...I still get an 8th level spell slot at level 20, and I get access to 7th level powers and maneuvers, but very limited so it's hardly the most optimal concept. It is a flavorful one and interesting to try and pull off. DnD tends to punish you for not specializing, but I've done my best.


This isn't trite. This isn't trivial. I've been working on this rebuild for several months (since before the Shadow fight in the basement) and was waiting for the level up to ask.

Sallera
2012-09-13, 03:04 PM
Never feel that open debate is a bad idea. It's of no use to me if it's hidden away in PMs.

...aaand that's all I'm going to say on the matter until later when I'm at home, so don't let me interrupt your discussion.

TheFallenOne
2012-09-13, 03:16 PM
Honestly I am very sorry that I posted my wishes publicly, when I could have PMed Sal because now I feel like its going to be an argument between us and it's going to sour me on the whole game right when I'm feeling jazzed about it.

I'm not trying to have an argument with you. I give my input on something I perceive as a flaw. I hope it will make you think about whether you really need the things you requested to enjoy the game and about whether your requests are reasonable. Whatever conclusion you arrive at, knowing what one of your fellow players thinks on the matter gives you an outside perspective, and we often tend to take things for granted if we are not aware of any disagreement.

As I don't want to argue with you, I'll just correct you on some points where I think you misunderstood me, took my words in a more offensive way than intended. If I don''t correct you there, it might lead to bad blood between us, and that is always troublesome in a group.


Dude...linking to TVTropes...that's dirty pool.

It was necessary. If you're unfamiliar with the term and googled it, you might end up with this (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Special%20Snowflake%20Syndrome) and then think my words rather insulting.


And please for all that is holy, don't try and tell me how I *should* be playing or that I should enjoy the game in the same way or for the same reasons that you do. It's really unfair.

Actually, that whole paragraph was about why the way I made Grimmgang is not a valid comparison. He's intentionally common.


Dude, it didn't make sense for a creature made of crystal to have blood and such. The immunity made sense at the time and was an oversight that should have been put into the revised template when I made it.

I think here you have a misconception what the disagreement is about. Nobody said poison immunity doesn't fit the template. The point was rather you shouldn't get it for free. It is a strong template. If you add immunities and don't take away something of equal power it goes into LA +2 territory.


You are hardly one to talk about customization...you made a brand new PrC for your character!

Yes. And if Sallera said 'No' I'd have shrugged it off.

TekHed
2012-09-13, 03:20 PM
I just don't want there to be hard feelings for anyone with what is supposed to be our fun shared pastime. I know I can get heated, especially with something like this where I am trying to improve upon poor choices with character design.

The changes if I could boil them down from the wall of text are thus:

Switch Ardent 1/Cleric 3
Get rid of Extra Turning
Move Law Devotion to 1st
Move Practiced Manifester to 3rd
Rebuild order of mantles, making Freedom and Justice Primary (since most of the powers I want are from Justice).
Switch Protection (formerly Planning) domain to Travel domain. (Again, note that I have not once ever in game used either planning or protection, so it's still undefined IC).

Those are my hard requests, and ones I feel set with (as in I won't change them again).

The ones that I'm still open to question/suggestions revolve around Deep Impact, and whether I can waive Psionic Weapon. Given his crystal sword I thought this was a reasonable request (like I said, using maneuver items as prereqs is feat equivalent).

If Sal says I can't so that then I need to go back to the drawing table a bit, and decide what I'll want for my 9th level feat. I'll still probably want to take Psionic Meditation at 6th though, so at the very least I can regain my focus after using the Granted power from Justice (going for my retributive/protect my allies theme).

The other stuff regarding RKV is really only important in terms of buying the skill ranks to qualify (since In get only 2 skill points per level I need to plan now).

I like my changes to RKV personally...it's still a powerful PrC but not broken by any means and for levels 14-20 it's appropriate I think.

The Armored Stealth swap for psionic focus is inspired and I'll think it is lame if I get stuck with Armored Stealth (again because it's a class feature that won't get any use. ever.) but I'm not as set on that. Neither am I set on filling in the levels without spellcasting progression with psionic progressing...that would be like icing on the cake really.

It does however fulfill my desire for a PrC that will advance three different character mechanics, which is what I wanted to try with Shard and which is otherwise a completely unsupported notion in all of DnD.

TekHed
2012-09-13, 03:30 PM
Got ninjaed by your post Fallen. I appreciate your clarifications, as yeah I was taking it a bit harsher than you intended.

Regarding Shard's Template. It is strong but let's take a look:


Deep Crystal Warrior LA+1

Earth Subtype, Immune to Poison, Disease.

+2 Str, +2 Con + 2 Wis, -2 Dex, -2 Int. Deep Crystal Warriors are solid, strong and in tune with the world, but move stiffly and rely on intuition over logic.

Natural Armor +2, Damage Reduction 5/Adamantine, Takes 50% more damage from sonic spells and effects.
Movement: same as base creature. Darkvision out to 60' or the base races whichever is higher.
Bonus Feat: Psiforged Body
SLA Glow as the Light spell at will (Standard Action activation).
Psionic Sustenance: As beings of solid mineral Crystal Warriors do not eat or breath. They do require psionic energy to sustain themselves and will starve if they do not consume 1 of their power points per day. They do require a time of meditative regeneration similar to a human's sleep cycle.

Earth Smite (Ex): Once per day, the mineral warrior can make an exceptionally vicious attack against any foe that stands on stone or earth. The mineral warrior adds its Constitution bonus (if any) to its attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per Hit Die.

The attribute modifiers net in the negative so that is balanced. Reduced DR from the original template. Natural armor +2, but both balanced out by the vulnerability (which Sal has made good use of). Still balanced.

Darkvision 60...nothing too special there.

Light as SLA and Repletion. Again nothing over the top, just flavorful. Repletion comes from Elan so basically saying that I have to use the ability or deal with the starvation rules is a very minor restriction but again is for flavor so it's balanced against Light.

Which brings us to the bonus feat and the immunities. These are really where the LA comes in.

Looking at it now, I think I should take off Earth Smite.

Does that seem more fair to you?

MoleMage
2012-09-13, 05:58 PM
This is somewhat unrelated, but...

Daiya, having learned to live blind with the help of a priest, would like to pass those lessons on to other blind people. So that's probably what I'll do if she survives to the epilogue...and given her frail nature I suppose that's not a guarantee.

Sallera
2012-09-14, 12:36 AM
Haah... well, this is going to take a while, so piece by piece it is.

Swapping Celestial for Quori - granted, mechanically, neither language is likely to come up in game, but why is it necessary? It seems an unneeded, if minor, blow to Shard's connection with Daiya. Was it not mentioned that she was the one who taught him Common through their initial shared language?

If 2-6 are just for Deep Impact, then no. Deep crystal and Psionic Weapon are separate, stackable effects, and perhaps it's just because we have different playstyles, but I can easily think of situations where I would use Psionic Weapon over Deep Impact. Such as, for example, when one has True Strike up (something you do often), or when attempting to alpha strike a caster, where to-hit tends to effectively be a concealment roll (also something you do often). Or, say, for the multiple levels before you pick up Deep Impact. If you want to retrain Extra Turning to Psionic Weapon, on the other hand, that's acceptable. As you said, it's not like you're using those turn attempts anyway, right?

Domains - Travel? Really? I'm having trouble seeing the thematic connection between your floating cathedral of souls and Travel. Unless you're basing it off the time travel aspect, which, as I said the last time you suggested it, I'm not fond of to begin with.

Mantles - You've used Dissolving Weapon twice, actually, and the enemy was still surrending when you killed him, even though you edited out your command for him to do so, but that's another tangent. You can swap Evade Burst for Inconstant Location, but not add it as an extra. The rest of your rewrites I'll have to look at in more detail later; I don't have time right now.

Researching powers is fine; no taking 10 on the check, though, and a limit of one per manifester level. Giving psicrystals feats is easily abusable; I'd rather not start that series of arguments. If the Psychic Theurge explicitly says it doesn't advance psicrystal abilities, then that overrides the general case.

Changes to the RKV - that'll take more work to look through and rebalance. It'll have to wait a few days. I think I've said before, probably in relation to the Vanguard, that initiator PrCs do allow one to swap out maneuvers at appropriate levels, though. And you can buy a nightstick, but to bring it in line with other feat items like the Gloves of the Balanced Hand, it should take up a body slot; face or throat would be suitable, depending on how you want to fluff it.

Edit: Ach, tired. Forgot about the Knowledge checks. Back on topic, then, Grimmgang would know little of Rygar. He was once near as much a pirate as some of the other Princes, but since rising to power has been more occupied with politics, expanding his domain and dealing with the Princes set on sticking to the ancient ways. Politics in the Principalities often involves much more blood than talking, but he's been attempting to change that.

In addition to that, Xaxhan would know that Rygar is not much of one for backroom dealings, and is fairly visible in Regalport; a tavern by the name of the Rusty Anchor is the easiest place to gain an audience with him. While the building itself isn't especially impressive, its clientele tends to include most of the city's folk of importance at one point or another.

TekHed
2012-09-14, 02:14 AM
Haah... well, this is going to take a while, so piece by piece it is.

[QUOTE]Swapping Celestial for Quori - granted, mechanically, neither language is likely to come up in game, but why is it necessary? It seems an unneeded, if minor, blow to Shard's connection with Daiya. Was it not mentioned that she was the one who taught him Common through their initial shared language?

I had forgotten about that piece of information. It won't come up in game during the scope of this module, but it will if and when I can get you or another DM to take on the Continuing Adventures of Shard (or whatever) later.

I suppose since I did say that I can keep Celestial, though with my revised backstory Quori makes more sense. Maybe the ancient Quori spoke Celestial or something. You have to realize that much of what I said back then was talking out of my arse because I had only the vaguest notion of Eberron cosmology and how to fit my wacky exotic and decidedly non-canon character/deity into it.


If 2-6 are just for Deep Impact, then no. Deep crystal and Psionic Weapon are separate, stackable effects, and perhaps it's just because we have different playstyles, but I can easily think of situations where I would use Psionic Weapon over Deep Impact. Such as, for example, when one has True Strike up (something you do often),

...and want to get away from as much as possible. I am sick of spending rounds doing nothing but "charging up." My more recent experience has shown how silly that is...and tedious.


or when attempting to alpha strike a caster, where to-hit tends to effectively be a concealment roll (also something you do often).

...I don't understand this. How does doing a piddly 2d6 damage (at the expense of losing my valuable psionic focus) help me negate concealment?


Or, say, for the multiple levels before you pick up Deep Impact. If you want to retrain Extra Turning to Psionic Weapon, on the other hand, that's acceptable. As you said, it's not like you're using those turn attempts anyway, right?

I'll take it if you force me to...but I'll never use it. With Mountain Hammer now and Xaxhan an extra 2d6 means nothing that I can't get for 2 pp... Even if I do as you say and swap it out with Extra Turning I won't be able to get deep impact until level 12...which is beyond the scope of this game, so why bother? (and before you say I can take it at level 9, I -will not- take Deep Impact before Psionic Meditation, which I would need to take at 9th level.) The best I could do is to make my changes as I asked, taking psionic meditation now, and something else at 9th that I don't know what yet, and the retraining/rebuilding to include psionic weapon at 12th level IF I still get to play the character. I won't take psionic weapon until I can actually get deep impact and psionic meditation though, because I don't want to expend my focus unless I recover it with a move action. I can't be upset about it, since I was asking for something RAW and you are well within your right to deny it, but I had to ask. If I am going to rework my mantles as I wish however to make Shard a retributive build via Justice Mantle, I need to take Psionic mediation at 6th level (or I suppose 3rd by swapping Ardent to 3rd so I regain my focus after I expend it using the Mantle Power. I hope you don't blame me but believe me when I say that my understanding of psionics and even is much better (though still far from complete) as to when I started. Edit: ALSO...just realized that I can't swap extra turning for psionic weapon even IF I wanted to...since it requires one to expend psionic focus and he doesn't get that until level 4 9or 3 if I can switch them as I would like to).


Domains - Travel? Really? I'm having trouble seeing the thematic connection between your floating cathedral of souls and Travel. Unless you're basing it off the time travel aspect, which, as I said the last time you suggested it, I'm not fond of to begin with.

You said it wouldn't work thematically to have traveled from the future because that would make the war irrelevant (which after doing more research I can totally understand)...but travel from the waaay distant past? That is much more workable and fits...being a piece of the last age sent forward. Not a quori (which would be shifted with the age) but one of their crystal warriors.

Also, the cavern isn't floating, it's underground. I flirted with the notion of it being a giant Dragonshard asteroid but you nixed that idea. Once I understood more of the Quori it made more sense to go with the past. Also....it's VERY pulp.

The other thing is that thematically Shard is meant to be very mobile...travel synergizes with Freedom, and I was originally going to spend all my powers known on psionic fly, and freedom of movement etc...then I realized that I could get all of those 1/day with Travel domain, and leave my power slots for things that are more interesting to me, like perfect riposte.

Dimension Hop and such were definitely supposed to lead to more mobility, so Travel works that way as well. it also fits his theme of being a wandering warrior, time travel or no (which I really like...feel free to ignore it in plot, but in my mind that's the story.) Time and Travel are really about Time and Space (movement through space) which is a big part of how I want to play with Shard. Very mobile when he needs to be, sometimes surprisingly so.


Mantles - You've used Dissolving Weapon twice, actually, and the enemy was still surrending when you killed him, even though you edited out your command for him to do so, but that's another tangent. You can swap Evade Burst for Inconstant Location, but not add it as an extra.

According to the Ardent ACF you can add powers up to a max of 10 (although a few mantles break that limit already as written in the book...most come understocked though). However in this case it doesn't matter because I don't have enough powers known to take both anyways.

As for dissolving weapon...it was the best I could think of at the time, before I realized it was standard action to manifest. I realized that 2 pp for 2d6 damage as a free action is better than 3 pp for 4d6 as a standard action. over four rounds it does the same amount of damage for only 2 more pp AND I'll be doing more damage by hitting every round rather than spend my standard manifesting in combat. Furthermore as I said I only took the Destruction mantle in the first place because I thought improved Sunder was a good idea. I never really liked it thematically, or visually for that matter. And of course Xaxhan makes it irrelevant.


The rest of your rewrites I'll have to look at in more detail later; I don't have time right now.


Ok. I think you will find them thematically appropriate.


Researching powers is fine; no taking 10 on the check, though, and a limit of one per manifester level.


It would be nice to be able to research two now but if that is what you are ruling then I can at least take vigor now for a minor boost and my psicrystal will just have to be a waste of space of my pauldron for another level. :smallwink: Edit: Oh I get it...one per ML...I assume you mean one per actual level and not counting my effective manifester level via practiced manifested. So I could at level 7 research as many as 3 new powers, right?


Giving psicrystals feats is easily abusable; I'd rather not start that series of arguments. If the Psychic Theurge explicitly says it doesn't advance psicrystal abilities, then that overrides the general case.


I believe you ruled prior that you would allow it to advance them for the sake of abilities so that I could get it to fly (literally to make it match my picture for Shard) but even then I wouldn't pick it up until 13th level which, again, is beyond the scope of this module.


Changes to the RKV - that'll take more work to look through and rebalance. It'll have to wait a few days. I think I've said before, probably in relation to the Vanguard, that initiator PrCs do allow one to swap out maneuvers at appropriate levels, though. And you can buy a nightstick, but to bring it line with other feat items like the Gloves of the Balanced Hand, it should take up a body slot; face or throat would be suitable, depending on how you want to fluff it.

All sounds good.

Does anyone have any suggestions for good feats Shard can take at 9th level, now that my "early entry" to deep impact has been nullified? Something useful I won't mind retraining into Psionic Weapon at 12th? Even then...gods but I really do have a visceral revulsion to taking any feats just as prerequisites that I won't ever use because the thing I'm getting for the prereq is just so much better. On the other hand, if my proposal for RKV goes through, I'd be able to expend focus to charge it, swift to recover standard to strike and expend for deep impact, move to recover, and then hustle to move...yes its a powerful trick to be able to do every round...but I would run out of Turn attempts and PP very quickly, and to put it in perspective, Grimm can do it every other round, while full attacking in between via Emerald Razor...and do it all day long, so I hardly think that what I am trying to do is unbalanced...if anything it is far more limited. At level 20, assuming a +5 Tome to Cha and a +6 stat item, a nightstick taking up a body slot and a reliquary holy symbol...I'll have at most 13 or so turn attempts, to split between three different abilities and law devotion on top which takes 3 Turn attempts after the first use. I'd say that is a heavy limitation on how much I can do per day or per battle...

I'm doing my best here people.

TekHed
2012-09-14, 03:52 AM
Okay, I think I figured out what would work for me.
Keep levels as is, put protection devotion as 1st (replace extra turning) and keep the other feats as is. Then Psionic Mediation at 9 and retrain law devotion to Psionic Weapon and take Deep Impact at 12, when my super low BAB isn't a problem anymore. I'll still overlap with Auran a bit, but I actually like protecting the party.

I would still like to take Travel Devotion for the mobility aspects though and rebuild my mantles/powers known.

TheFallenOne
2012-09-14, 09:13 AM
and to put it in perspective, Grimm can do it every other round, while full attacking in between via Emerald Razor...and do it all day long, so I hardly think that what I am trying to do is unbalanced...if anything it is far more limited.

First, factually wrong. To recover maneuvers I either need to make a single standard attack, or move to gain Skirmish.

Second, you greatly misjudge the power levels of this.
I have a Kalashtar Crusader/Ardent build, with Deep Impact and Psionic Meditation. Let's compare with Grimmy.

Emerald Razor is the effect. I'm mostly guaranteed to hit and get my single attack damage(at a point when full BAB classes have an iterative).
Deep Impact can be tacked onto an effect. That's why it is so insanely nice for a martial adept. You can use a maneuver with juicy effects, healing, extra damage, debuff, and have it as a touch. You combine Emerald Razor and another, Revitalizing Strike, Mountain Hammer, whatever, into one.
And the best part? Strikes are a standard action, recovering focus move. So the psionic adept can do his trick all day long too, every turn instead of every second, with some empty turns if he used it last turn and no enemy is within 5 foot step/Dimension Hop range.

So no, Emerald Razor and Deep Impact are nowhere near on the same level.

Postmodernist
2012-09-14, 04:17 PM
I am going to hold my tongue in this debate, primarily because I'm still sort of the new guy around here. Besides, we're all intelligent adults here; if there's a significant problem, I trust it can be sorted out with equanimity. I'm more than willing to modify my level of play and optimization to the power level desired. As long as things work out, I'm fine.

In-game: do we have a real plan for Rygar, or is Xaxhan just going to go up and say, "Hi, uhhhh, we're looking for a map..." and hope that the Diplomacy rolls are favorable? Assuming he has it, he might be willing to let us purchase it or trade for services, otherwise, I'm not sure what options we have. While theft is a consideration, I suspect it's out of character for most of us, and no one wants a pirate king to be pissed off at them.

Also: Just a minor heads up- my schedule is going to become pretty hectic, though it should remain reasonably regular. I'm starting to run a pretty intense educational and after school program for underprivileged kids, so my days will be pretty thoroughly occupied. I'll definitely be able to update and read up on the thread once a day, but it may briefly be limited only to that much. Once my phone upgrade goes through (and I can get rid of the beater I've been temporarily using since my old one broke) next week, I should be able to occasionally go though via my phone. This shouldn't significantly effect the game, but I want everyone to be informed ahead of time.

TekHed
2012-09-14, 06:16 PM
@Fallen. Ok, point conceded. As I said above I'm willing to push Deep Impact back to a level beyond the scope of this module, but I don't want to take the crummy prereq until later, via retraining. That was always the iffy one, since waiving a prereq IS beyond the scope of the rules. I'd still like to make my other changes though, which are within the scope of the (rebuilding) rules.

On thing though, from what I've read in the war blade handbooks, you can in fact recover your maneuvers by spending a swift and attacking...which from my understanding can be a full attack.

Re: Rygar. He sounds like a straight shooter...why not tell him the truth: that we have been placed under a curse, we think we've found the locatio of a cure and need a map to get there, and if he wants to know whats in it for him, we can tell him we've been cleaning up the Emerald Claw pests lurking in his cupboards...

@Posty: Sounds like you're up to good things in the world!

Postmodernist
2012-09-14, 07:43 PM
@Posty: Sounds like you're up to good things in the world!

Thanks. Doing AmeriCorps, trying to serve underprivileged kids. It's gonna be demanding and tough, but I suspect it'll be worth it. Plus, the educational benefit and grad/law school bonus points on applications won't hurt, either.

TekHed
2012-09-14, 07:51 PM
I'm not sure how long the voyage was back to Regalport from Vorgaard's, but we still need to use Speak with Dead on our corpses right?

We also need to identify Dura and Ethras's loot (and any other loot we retrieved from Arielon and the ogre mages), figure out how we want to divy it up or sell it, and hopefully go shopping for some new-level-appropriate gear. I've filled out quite the shopping-wish-list for Shard.

TheFallenOne
2012-09-17, 09:47 PM
Know what I just noticed? With Shard's rather massive weight we would have been unable to remove his body from the burning estate should he have been killed. Thus, we wouldn't have been able to use Raise Dead on him later. Guess you had more luck with Dura's Natural 1 than we thought...

TekHed
2012-09-17, 10:03 PM
Eh...you don't need the whole body...you could have chopped off his head, grabbed his gear, and maybe hacked off an arm to pay for the spell. :smalltongue:

Sallera
2012-09-17, 10:05 PM
Especially since as the domain power is a death effect, Raise Dead wouldn't actually have worked even if you'd tried.

IC post coming shortly, but other stuff will be dealt with tomorrow.

MoleMage
2012-09-17, 10:45 PM
How many things do we have that need Identified? I'm repreparing after the sleep on ye olde boat, and I'm gonna have to mark those off until we can get another night's sleep.

EDIT: Also going to mark off two castings of Speak With Dead, which we can do any time for convenience.

Postmodernist
2012-09-18, 12:04 AM
So, let's make a list of questions for Dura and company. These are just suggestions, and should be winnowed down as appropriate.

How did you beat us to Vorgaard's estate?
What does the Claw want with the McGuffin Dragon's Eye?
Who is your immediate superior?
Where are they?
Who is your contact in Regalport?
What do you know of Thraxis/Eliam/Jhemast?
What do you know of/were you headed to Trebez Sinara?

Anything else?

Again, I'm super busy, but I'll try and fully update the character sheet sometime this week. As it is, I leave from about 8:30 am, get home around 6:30 pm. I usually have enough time to eat, spend a little time with the girlfriend, and study. If I'm lucky, I can dedicate a moment or two to a fun task. I'll have my replacement phone on Saturday, so when that arrives I should be able to update from the road with greater frequency.

TekHed
2012-09-18, 12:23 AM
Especially since as the domain power is a death effect, Raise Dead wouldn't actually have worked even if you'd tried.

IC post coming shortly, but other stuff will be dealt with tomorrow.



:smalleek:

I'd forgotten about that bit. Death Domain is really nasty!

Shard might have been out of the game...the rng god apparently smiled upon me indeed...

TheFallenOne
2012-09-18, 12:32 PM
I think you just lost the right to complain about bad luck in this game until further notice :smalltongue:


So, let's make a list of questions for Dura and company. These are just suggestions, and should be winnowed down as appropriate.

How did you beat us to Vorgaard's estate?
What does the Claw want with the McGuffin Dragon's Eye?
Who is your immediate superior?
Where are they?
Who is your contact in Regalport?
What do you know of Thraxis/Eliam/Jhemast?
What do you know of/were you headed to Trebez Sinara?

Anything else?

Again, I'm super busy, but I'll try and fully update the character sheet sometime this week. As it is, I leave from about 8:30 am, get home around 6:30 pm. I usually have enough time to eat, spend a little time with the girlfriend, and study. If I'm lucky, I can dedicate a moment or two to a fun task. I'll have my replacement phone on Saturday, so when that arrives I should be able to update from the road with greater frequency.

Dura probably knows more, so we should direct the more important questions at her.

Dura
'Who is your immediate superior?'
'What is the exact function of the artifact called Dragon's Eye?'
perhaps Trebez Sinara? It's a shot in the dark, without the journal she likely doesn't know much yet about the island or Thraxis. Perhaps something like 'How many operatives does the Emerald Claw have within four(?) days of travel?'

Ethras
'Where were you planning to sail after acquiring the journal?'
'Who is your contact in Regalport?' substitute other city if she gives a different place as answer to prior question we're headed to Regalport either way, so better to know that one
For the last one, though this could be better directed at Dura, 'What is the relationship between the Emerald Claw and Prince Ryger?' I don't expect them to be friendly, but if they are our current plan is quite flawed, possibly suicidal.

TekHed
2012-09-18, 03:31 PM
Good call Fallen...

Edit: @Posty, RE: Being Indiana Jones: I just found the 'Whip Climber' Skill Trick, though I'd point it out to you (Using the 'Point it Out' Skill Trick. :smalltongue:)

Sallera
2012-09-20, 10:54 PM
Well, whichever you decide on, do please post them IC this time. (Honestly, I'd prefer you hold these sorts of discussions IC as well; more interesting, and less of an abrupt jump in the narrative, but if you'd rather make your decisions OOC, I won't stop you.)

TekHed
2012-09-21, 12:41 AM
Well all of the best suggestions were made from Fallen, so I figured he ought to be the one to voice them through Grimmgang.

I still haven't made my desired changes to Shard (the revised list), as I've been waiting for the ok from you this time Sallera.

Also, still waiting on a comprehensive list of identified magic and mundane loot, as it seems Grimmy and Shard might be hitting the local retail boutiques, and possibly going for a shave and a haircut. :smallbiggrin:

TheFallenOne
2012-09-21, 07:55 AM
Well, whichever you decide on, do please post them IC this time. (Honestly, I'd prefer you hold these sorts of discussions IC as well; more interesting, and less of an abrupt jump in the narrative, but if you'd rather make your decisions OOC, I won't stop you.)

Playing out that IC would be a hassle; such a conversation would realistically be discussing each question for its merits and potential gains, not just one character listing six of them and the others nodding them off or making a countersuggestion to one of them. And nobody would come up with six good ideas right away, so there'd be some worse ones to be discounted, lots of discussion with participation from all characters.

It looks a bit difficult and time-consuming to play out to me. Perhaps if we make a short timeskip so everyone has had a bit time to think on it, then Xaxhan presents his list, followed by Grimmgang's modifications?

Sallera
2012-09-21, 09:12 AM
Hm, fair point, although you had plenty of unused time there. Either way, post something when you're ready.

TekHed
2012-09-22, 12:49 PM
Sal, I finished updating Shard with my most recent revised rebuild (kept class order the same, swapped Extra Turning for Protection Devotion, Swapped Protection Domain for Travel, and Swapped Force and Destruction for Justice and Guardian respectively). I don't expect I will be retraining or rebuilding anything again, save for retraining law devotion to psionic weapon at level 12 so I can take Deep Impact. If it means anything to you, I am MUCH happier with my build this way than I was before.

Regarding psicrystal feats, I'm fine with not taking them, but I DO recall you saying you would go ahead and let Psychic Theurge advance my psicrystal solely for the purpose of special abilities, so I can have it fly by level 13, but your post saying such is either buried in the original ooc thread or the recruiting thread.

Still waiting for your response to my proposal for redoing RKV to be a Shard-specific psionic/divine/maneuver class (though I should clarify I meant for him, and not that there can't be other normal RKVs running around should you want to use them), though it's not like we need to deal with that now, considering level 14 is well past the scope of this module and who knows if we'll ever get there. The main thing that would affect me sooner is the skill prereqs, which I'd like to alter as part of refluffing the class to not be a stealth-themed PrC.

Lastly, I do need to roll for researching powers. It takes a week per level, so depending on our urgency I may not be able to get these right away, but I'll roll now for convenience sake.

Research Vigor (DC 11) [roll0] 1 week
Research Share Pain (DC 12) [roll1] 2 weeks

I doubt I'll have more time than that, but if I do, I'd like to research a couple more:

Research Protection from Evil, Psionic (DC 11) [roll2] 1 week
Research Damp Power (DC 12) [roll3] 2 weeks
Research Energy Adaptation, Specified (DC 12) [roll4] 2 weeks

When you said only one researched power per Manifester Level, did you mean actual class levels, or my Manifester Level via Practiced Manifester?

Anyhow, once I know how much time I have available to research, I'll subtract the 200 xp per power level from my sheet.

TheFallenOne
2012-09-22, 01:18 PM
Hm, fair point, although you had plenty of unused time there. Either way, post something when you're ready.

Posty, can you start us off? I can't present the final list of questions convincingly out of the blue, unless I off-screen the discussion and make Grimmgang summarize our decisions.

Postmodernist
2012-09-22, 01:56 PM
Yeah. Sorry about my posting rate, I've been pretty seriously swamped the last couple of days. I'm working on updating Xaxhan's sheet now (way later than intended) and following my other threads. I'll throw something up ASAP.

Sallera
2012-09-22, 03:15 PM
For those uninterested in the current debate, seek ye the #loot.

...Tek, I'm aware that it took me a while to get around to reviewing those changes (being sick kind of took away all my motivation for complex considerations; I was just about to check them now), but I did say I would need to examine them before giving my approval, so why did you make the changes without permission again? We're not even in a situation where your class abilities are relevant IC, so it's not as if there's any rush, and I can't imagine which part of my response to you doing that the first time made you think it would be a good idea to repeat the exercise.


If it means anything to you, I am MUCH happier with my build this way than I was before.That would probably be more meaningful if you hadn't said the same thing last time.

Anyway, mantles. Freedom 6th level swap I already said was alright. Justice... well, I can see why you wanted to redesign this one, as the printed one isn't themed all that well. But Offensive/Defensive Precognition don't fit either. Disable and Synchronicity would be a better choice for 1st level; the rest are alright. In Guardian, I'll allow you to swap Deaden Blow for Force Screen, but Vigor doesn't really fit there. Every other power in the mantle is based around preventing damage, not taking it. Intellect Fortress works, though. Travel Domain I suppose I'll allow, although I still think it's rather poorly themed. And there'll be a 1500g rebuilding levy to cover the costs of all this. (If it helps, we can say 500g of that is an Impatience Penalty.)

Also, I think it should be pretty obvious at this point, but just to make sure it's down in writing, from this point on, the standard single retraining option per level will be a set limit, not a suggestion.

Researching, we'll make one per manifesting class level (so currently 3), to represent time spent on actually studying the art, as opposed to passive improvement through general use. Also, as an Ardent, keep them in theme for your mantles, of course.


...I don't understand this. How does doing a piddly 2d6 damage (at the expense of losing my valuable psionic focus) help me negate concealment?It doesn't, obviously, but that's not what I said. When your attack roll is effectively miss-on-1, your to-hit roll becomes concealment, and in that situation, extra damage is far more valuable than reduced AC.

RKV: Psicraft 8, Intimidate 4, Knowledge: Religion 8. (Hide's at 4 because it's expected to be cross-class; Psicraft isn't.) Levels 2 and 7 (or wherever, really) can replace spellcasting advancement with manifesting advancement, but not add it for free. Armored Stealth Mobility can remove the penalty from Jump and Climb instead of Hide, if you like, but no turning a minor class feature into a major one.

So, I believe a #loot list was requested. A quick trip to a gem merchant and 8 castings of Identify will get you:
4 potions of Protection From Good
Eyes of the Eagle
+1 dagger
+1 mithral breastplate
Undead Servant Gemstone (one-use Animate Dead effect, lasts 2 minutes)
+1 Wounding spinning sword
Ring of Protection +1
3 potions of Cure Moderate Wounds

Postmodernist
2012-09-22, 03:31 PM
[SIZE="1"]
So, I believe a #loot list was requested. A quick trip to a gem merchant and 8 castings of Identify will get you:
4 potions of Protection From Good
Eyes of the Eagle
+1 dagger
+1 mithral breastplate
Undead Servant Gemstone (one-use Animate Dead effect, lasts 2 minutes)
+1 Wounding spinning sword
Ring of Protection +1
3 potions of Cure Moderate Wounds

Very unusual loot list, most notably the wounding spinning sword. Aside from the cure potions, I'm conflicted about selling most of this. The Ring of protection has obvious uses at this level, and Xaxhan would totally love that breastplate. The undead gemstone would be a cool option if we had a consistent means of rebuking or controlling the result. What say you all?

Sallera
2012-09-22, 03:41 PM
Animate Dead grants control, actually, so you don't need to worry about that.

Postmodernist
2012-09-22, 03:55 PM
Animate Dead grants control, actually, so you don't need to worry about that.

Does it? Am I thinking of Create Undead? The names of all those necromancy spells have confused me. It's been forever since I played a clerical Master Of Shrouds necromaster character for an evil game. He was highly optimal, but incredibly boring to play.

"What do you do this round?"
"I summon 1d4+2 Greater Shadows. They surround our enemy, drain its Strength, and make more Shadows."
"Ok, what do you do next round."
"I make more Shadows until everything is dead. Then I rebuke everything, because I have those absurd domains that let you control obscene HD worth of undead. I hop onto my cool skeleton mount and ride away on a cloud of awesome."

Anyway, digression over. Back to how we're distributing the loot. My input:

1) Much as I'd be inclined to sell such the Animate Dead thing, it'd be handy to have in a large boss fight.
2) Sell the pots of prot good.
3) The dagger and spinning sword can probably be sold.
4) Xaxhan will beg for the armor.
5) Ring should go to someone who can use it.
6) Eyes of the Eagle to our scout, I imagine.
7) Cure moderate always useful

TekHed
2012-09-22, 04:00 PM
...Tek, I'm aware that it took me a while to get around to reviewing those changes (being sick kind of took away all my motivation for complex considerations; I was just about to check them now), but I did say I would need to examine them before giving my approval, so why did you make the changes without permission again? We're not even in a situation where your class abilities are relevant IC, so it's not as if there's any rush, and I can't imagine which part of my response to you doing that the first time made you think it would be a good idea to repeat the exercise.


I hadn't known you were sick as you didn't mention. All I knew was that the last couple of times you posted ooc you said you were going to get to it and then didn't so I guessed you were wither ignoring me, or that you had no objections.


That would probably be more meaningful if you hadn't said the same thing last time.

Except last time I got it wrong too. My choices clearly lacked any kind of consistency, and I was still unclear on the kind of theme and build I wanted it to be. I also picked a couple things where I didn't read the fine print closely enough.


Disable and Synchronicity would be a better choice for 1st level; the rest are alright.

I'm not super stoked on either of those. Disable is good for taking down lower level mooks, but I don't see how that is themed anymore towards Justice (though I am open to your thoughts on this), and Synchronicity is fluffed the same exact way as the Precognition powers (seeing a brief moment into the future), though it does fit with Shard's Time Domain.

So...Either Disable, or could I take Psionic Protection from Evil for Justice 1?


In Guardian, I'll allow you to swap Deaden Blow for Force Screen, but Vigor doesn't really fit there. Every other power in the mantle is based around preventing damage, not taking it.

As for the former, thank you. As for the latter, did you miss the granted power being to suck someone else's damage? That made me think Vigor was appropriate. If not as I said I am going to research the Vigor/Share Pain combo as a.) my psicrystal has been otherwise worthless...and I did burn a feat to have it, and b.) I have abysmal hit points (d4 for the next 7 levels) for my role of tanking, which I need to make up somehow.


Travel Domain I suppose I'll allow, although I still think it's rather poorly themed.

Thank you. I just want to say that your objection to the time travel idea was based around being from the future, and thereby negating the whole conflict, which I get, but being from the past should work...it also explains why Shard is a unique race (and I fully grant Shard falls intentionally into the Special Snowflake trope, though I would argue that for the Pulp-based Eberron such things can work), and it gives me some actual motivation. I know it won't have any bearing on this module but it is nice to know that Shard has a reason for being here, and I rather like that reason having to do with Sarlona and the Quori (and I sincerely hope we can explore it together someday).


And there'll be a 1500g rebuilding levy to cover the costs of all this. (If it helps, we can say 500g of that is an Impatience Penalty.)

I wasn't aware that it cost gold to rebuild, though I can understand why you would feel like punishing me for being difficult. I'm 3 gp short...can I just give up all of my money and call it even at 1497 gp? (Btw I hope we are able to translate some of our loot into gp...it doesn't seem like we have nearly enough to match our expected wbl, and at this point most of the level appropriate stuff costs thousands of gp per item, for each of us).


Also, I think it should be pretty obvious at this point, but just to make sure it's down in writing, from this point on, the standard single retraining option per level will be a set limit, not a suggestion.


Agreed, in writing.


It doesn't, obviously, but that's not what I said. When your attack roll is effectively miss-on-1, your to-hit roll becomes concealment, and in that situation, extra damage is far more valuable than reduced AC.


Sorry for being daft, but I still don't get it...maybe just the wording you are using. Could you give an example?


RKV: Psicraft 8, Intimidate 4, Knowledge: Religion 8. (Hide's at 4 because it's expected to be cross-class; Psicraft isn't.) Levels 2 and 7 (or wherever, really) can replace spellcasting advancement with manifesting advancement, but not add it for free.

Sorry, but that isn't worth it...I've already given up too many caster levels. As is, with normal RKV, I end up with a single 8th level spell slot...at 20th level...5 levels behind everyone else. Right now I don't see how that is worth it. Maybe I'll change my mind after looking into it more but the cardinal rule seems to be "thou shalt not sacrifice caster levels" which I've already done to hell.


Armored Stealth Mobility can remove the penalty from Jump and Climb instead of Hide, if you like, but no turning a minor class feature into a major one.


Still utterly worthless...I'll never have the skill points to put even a single rank into either of those skills, and I'll be able to fly by next level so they are doubly worthless. Shard will never be a jumper or a climber, penalty or no, just like he'll never be a scout, or a sneak.

If I am going to invest my pathetic skill points into it to get something psionic out of it, and considering the possibility of sacrificing caster levels to make it a tri-themed PrC then I should have at least one good solid (meaning major) class feature that works with psionics, aside from getting a couple of manifester levels out of it. And please don't say replace it with one of the other ones...right now it has a feature that gives more swift actions, and one that allows undead attempts to regain maneuvers...I thought my idea for turn undead to give swift non-AoO recovery of focus (with the Psionic Meditation Feat prereq of course) was both appropriate and worked well in refluffing the class to be divine/martial/psionic.

Oh, one last thing I forgot, I took Fallen's commentary to heart and dropped my racial Earth Smite ability, since you did give me the thematic immunities.


4 potions of Protection From Good
Eyes of the Eagle
+1 dagger
+1 mithral breastplate
Undead Servant Gemstone (one-use Animate Dead effect, lasts 2 minutes)
+1 Wounding spinning sword
Ring of Protection +1
3 potions of Cure Moderate Wounds

I say we sell all or most of that...there are probably better things for each of us than that list and we are seriously hurting for actual GP to spend, though we might want to just destroy the protection from good...having that in the world is just going to cause other good folk trouble...

Sallera
2012-09-22, 04:21 PM
I suggested Synchronicity because it fits the action/reaction thing you had going. Disable was more for the 'taking prisoners' aspect of Justice, and fully-augmented could affect up to a 10HD creature at your level, so it's not just mooks, but Protection from Evil works too.

On concealment-based defenses: Essentially, a caster that relies on concealment (Blur, Mirror Image, fog effects, etc.) for their defenses is going to have a fairly low AC. When you're swinging with a +14 or whatever it is, removing what's probably 0-4 points of AC by using a touch attack isn't going to appreciably increase your chances of hitting, because what'll make you miss is the static concealment chances. In that situation, extra damage is still beneficial, because their HP is probably as low as their AC, so it does increase your chances of incapacitating them if you get lucky on the concealment roll and manage to land a hit.

And don't worry, there's still all the mundane loot you picked up for you to sell for gold. That list was just the stuff that needed identification. Oh, and I missed one; the +1 rapier from Arielon, so one more Identify needed. If you're not keeping any of the other stuff, it'll come out to... well, a minimum of 1495g. Did you loot the zombies' weapons and shields, aside from the sword Grimmy took? What about Ethras's minions' weapons?

Postmodernist
2012-09-22, 04:48 PM
I'm not sure we got all the loot inside, considering that we had some serious time constraints, what with the fire. We probably got all the loot from the outside, and I wonder if giant-sized greatswords sell for more. Also, I just realized that Xaxhan could probably just go ahead and buy a +1 enhancement on his armor if he wanted, so if it's easier, we can just mass sell the loot. Still, I'd like to hear from everybody.

TekHed
2012-09-22, 06:40 PM
Re: Disable...I was combing through the fine print and *this close* to thinking it is actually awesome...but then it interjects some weird vague clause that even if they fail their save, if they attempt a standard action or heal themselves it breaks the effect. Upon close inspection of the disabled condition...it basically tricks them into thinking they are down to zero hit points...meaning they can still take a move action or a standard action...though if they take a standard they drop down -1 which they think would render them unconscious. The natural thing to do at that point is to drink a healing potion since the -1 hit point does not take effect until after the action, which the healing potion negates since once they are no longer at zero and disabled, they wouldn't take the 1 damage.

So, yeah...great in concept but the fine print ruins it (in the sense that they still get a save (max DC 18), and their first smart tactical option is going to break the disabling...ergo not a wise expenditure of 7 very precious power points for me. I will stick with the Protection from Evil, Psionic instead.

I'm also going to mark off 1000 xp if it is ok with you to add vigor, share pain, and damp power to my list of powers known.

My gold has been reduced to zero, pending whatever I make from my portion of the loot. It hits me in my pocket pretty hard (as you will read here in a second), but I appreciate you being willing to work with me Sal. Really. And my sincere apologies for being difficult...

@Posty...if a mithral breastplate floats your boat go for it. I do think we need the cash, but I know if something jumped out as perfect for Shard I would beg for it too, and I don't want to be selfish. Let's all come to a consensus.

ALSO...I was thinking that if it turns out the Dragon's Eye is more valuable than Sir'kil is letting on (almost certainly), perhaps we can extort more money out of him for it...I now have a very long and specific shopping list for Shard, starting with:

Healing Belt: 750
Wand Bracer: 300
Sizing Enchant for Sword (5000)
Strongarm Bracers (6000)
Expanded Reservoir (9000)

Would also be nice to get some Wis and Cha boosting items (4000, or 16000 each), an extra +1 to sword and armor (10000 and 3000 respectively), and a grip of weapon crystals (thematic indeed!).

So....yeah, needz moar cash!!! (though looking at level 7, it looks like standard wbl is only 19,000...which I can see now REALLY doesn't go very far...to go up a weapon size (and be able to smuggle the sword easier) costs 11k right off the bat. Realistically I'll probably only be able to get the Healing Belt and a wand bracer...:smallsigh:

Yep...we need to go on some side quests, jack some fools, or otherwise extort more money from our employer. :smallamused:

Sallera
2012-09-22, 06:57 PM
Well, don't add the researched powers to your list until you get or make enough downtime to research them.

Anyway, yes, that's basically what Disable does. It's still useful, though, since unless they have their own healing magic, they have to waste two turns to drink a potion (only one action a round), and if they do have healing magic, they're basically going to waste the strongest spell they've got.

TekHed
2012-09-22, 07:05 PM
Hmmm...I should sleep on it perhaps.

Better yet, ask for feedback.

Fallen, you're pretty tactically minded, which would you say...make weaker enemies waste an action or two (IF they fail their save, Will DC 15-18) for 7 PP (mind you I only have 25 available per day or 26 if I want to start going hungry...and actually less...more like 22 normally, or 26 every other day for charging up my body)...

OR, +2 to AC and saves vs. bad things and immunity to possession, enchantments, and compulsions for 1 pp???

To me the choice seems obvious to go for the latter, but what do you think?

TheFallenOne
2012-09-22, 07:18 PM
1) Much as I'd be inclined to sell such the Animate Dead thing, it'd be handy to have in a large boss fight.
2) Sell the pots of prot good.
3) The dagger and spinning sword can probably be sold.
4) Xaxhan will beg for the armor.
5) Ring should go to someone who can use it.
6) Eyes of the Eagle to our scout, I imagine.
7) Cure moderate always useful

Using undead is a bit distasteful, but it would be a hilarious way to turn the tables in a tough fight, and since we don't create a permanent monstrosity with it I think Grimmgang can deal, though a bit displeased.

The armor is nice and either Xaxhan or Daiya would do well with it; I already got my Mithralmist.

+5 Spot is obviously teh sexy for a Scout; I wouldn't mind the +1 AC ring either as a main melee, unless someone else calls dibs.
Rest can be sold; I won't buy much as I'm saving for a stance Iron Heart Vest and Martial Discipline enchantment on level 8(9750 GP in all, so I better keep my investments low). Though I do contemplate a Lesser Crystal of Lifedrinking for some in-combat healing.

We didn't loot the zombies as we were in a hurry(Grimmgang checking the door, Shard casting, Daiya and Xaxhan unsuccessfully checking for valuable artifacts. How much precious loot must have burned down that day...). The MW sword actually got left behind as I dropped it when I switched to archery and no-one else picked it up.

We did though get the crossbows from the entrance encounter. I don't think we checked Ethras's companions, we were rather preoccupied with chasing her and fleeing the building.


Fallen, you're pretty tactically minded, which would you say...make weaker enemies waste an action or two (IF they save) for 7 PP (mind you I only have 25 available per day or 26 if I want to start going hungry...and actually less...more like 22 normally, or 26 every other day for charging up my body)...

OR, +2 to AC and saves vs. bad things and immunity to possession, enchantments, and compulsions for 1 pp???

To me the choice seems obvious to go for the latter, but what do you think?

Disable can be a decent power; imagine having that available when Ethras was running.

Since you're no full manifester and got some PP constraints Protection from Evil is a more effective use of what you have. Then again, your buff routine is quite long already, too long in fact to use it in most fights and I don't think you're likely to give up an offensive action for a +2 AC.

Perhaps use Disable as an ace in the hole. You won't use it often, but there will be situations where you're happy to have it.

TekHed
2012-09-22, 07:31 PM
Actually, part of the point of the rebuild was because I realized I was hosing myself with the action economy. Truestrike isn't so necessary anymore now that Xaxhan is buffing us consistently, and I have Law Devotion to fall back on. Force Screen is really my only pre-buff now, to which I could add Prot. from Evil when needed. Bear's Endurance is mainly for in combat healing, and as I learned last battle, it's better to wait until I've closed in to melee to break out Cloud of Knives (which as a free action attack is REALLY useful with DFI...).

AC now is base 22, 26 with Force Screen (so one lower than it used to be), with Protection Devotion (Immediate Action btw) for an extra +3 (+4 next level) bringing me to 29 (not to mention giving the rest of you the same bonus if we stick within 30 feet of each other). Prot. from Evil would bump that to 31, which to me is more Shard-like, especially since he relies on AC to compensate for low hp), though 29 is nothing to sneeze at...and neither are the immunities, or the +2 to saves, which can combine with Elan to save my bacon.

Hmmm...but the Ace-in-the-Hole point is well taken.

Damnit! Tough choices...

edit: oh yeah, I concur on all accounts that you made about the loot...take the ring, maybe give Daiya the breastplate, since Xax tends to hang back while Daiya is close in and super squishy. Also, and I can make this point IC, but Shard would really rather destroy the Prot. from Good...they are only a few hundred gp each, but as a matter of principle taking any such things out of the market is paying it forward...

EDIT: Aha! I see what you mean now...see? Here I go again, not thinking it all the way through (I'm working on it)...Vigor and Share Pain are an HP buff and that also takes another 2 rounds, bringing the sequence to 3 rounds with Force Screen, so Prot. from Evil ramps it up to 4.

Hmmm...Assume 25 PP to spend, 10 goes to Vigor and Share Pain, and 1 more for Force Screen...so 11 points, or nearly half my total. I could basically buff myself for two big fights per day. BUT...I also need points to teleport around the battlefield, and zap someone with Empathic Transfer now and again, 1+ for D-Hop and 3 for the Transfer, not to mention, keeping a reserve for Elan Resistance, and that on an off-day I'll have less. With PP in short supply, dropping the caster levels for for two or more ardent levels with RKV is starting to look more and more attractive. The price I pay I suppose for trying to do three things...I'll never be as good at any of them as the specialists. I do dig the flavor and the options though.

So really right now, my planned big trick is to buff my hp. I won't realistically have the PP to do another big trick like Disable. Psychics have nova issues... :smallannoyed:

I should really focus on one or the other, at least for now, either buff my hp, or cripple the enemy for a second, and I think the d4 hit die clinches it.

See, had to think it through all the way, which is what I wasn't doing before.

Oh, yeah, and I'll need to buy wands of repair damage to keep the psicrystal up which...damn! That spell is not on my spell list, and UMD isn't a class skill either...grrr.

Sal, I hate to ask you for one more thing, but while I'm at it could I replace my psicrystal feat? With say, Psionic Meditation? Damn, that would require flipping the class levels around again. Grrr...DnD can be so damnably difficult sometime when trying to make a build work...

On the other hand I don't think I've really ever done anything much with the psicrystal and never really roleplayed it's personality, and the Share Pain/Power combo doesn't really seem sustainable. If I ditch the psicrystal idea entirely, I could take disable as an ace in the whole, conserve my pp (and xp and reduce buff sequence) for mobility and defense...those are the basis of Shard after all. Is that ok Sal? Since I'll never have another chance to rebuild, now is the time to ask you.


Yikes. Well I hope you guys can understand a bit more why I've made some wonky choices. I think it really helps me to get your feedback and discuss it openly here though so I am grateful for you all putting up with me and being willing to steer me in the right direction...

TheFallenOne
2012-09-22, 08:41 PM
Daiya is better served by some more HP than extra AC; +2 con item or an Amulet of Tears perhaps.

By the way, I'd totally go for a Mask of the Tiger(MIC p. 199) to free up my Track feat slot if Grimmgang with a tiger head wouldn't look so damn silly ^^ Though I am keeping Mantle of the Predator in mind for way way down the road, that one looks pretty sweet.

TekHed
2012-09-22, 08:48 PM
Yeah, and I don't think Xaxhan would ever live him live it down after Shard calls him Grimm-kitty... :smallbiggrin:

Edit: oh hey, it just occurred to me that perhaps Shard cutting down the surrendered foe (accidentally on my part), could be the effect of the negative energy infection of his Aberrant Dragonmark...making him colder and more brutal when in violent situations.

TheFallenOne
2012-09-22, 10:31 PM
*twitch* Good one. But better remember I do have a contingency on how to take down Shard if it's between him and Grimm's sanity :smalltongue:

And yikes, that spinning sword is a +3 equivalent, market price 18350...
+1 con without save on each hit is nasty, pity it's an exotic weapon. Though a good one at that, one-handed reach weapon is quite a thing. If I leveled as well I'd be quite tempted to get EWP with retraining. But then again 9000 GP to share among the party is way more than good enough.

Sallera, I'm considering a shield crystal. Crystal of Arrow Deflection gives +2 AC vs ranged and seems to be untyped. Would it apply against ranged touch as well?

MoleMage
2012-09-23, 01:35 AM
I'll put my share of loot towards a Amulet of Health +2. If my share is enough, I'll instead get a +4 (16k instead of 4k, so I doubt it but maybe).

As for the armor, it gives me +2 AC, a reduced armor check penalty by 1, and an increased max dex by 1 (which is not particularly helpful to me).

TekHed
2012-09-23, 01:44 AM
Ok, so...we give to Xaxhie then?

TheFallenOne
2012-09-23, 06:02 AM
As for the armor, it gives me +2 AC, a reduced armor check penalty by 1, and an increased max dex by 1 (which is not particularly helpful to me).

How's that? That would add up if you currently had a mundane chainshirt, but you have a +1.

Postmodernist
2012-09-23, 11:22 AM
It only gives Xaxhan a point of AC, bringing his deplorably low armor class up to a mere 18. It might be better to sell it. I suspect he'd be better served by some concealment/miss chance/invisibility effect. I've only just noticed that Daiya's class allows her to wear armor and apply both Dex and Wis to AC; that's a pretty powerful effect, albeit on par with the Swordsage.

What would the total amount of gold be if we liquidated everything? While it's probably not the most precisely efficient use of the loot (I've already stated my opinion on what we should keep/use), it'd be equitable and easy. I'll be working on Xax's level-up today, so I'll be keeping a look out for the most efficient use of his funds.

Does anyone have any experience with a metamagic spontaneous caster? I may nudge Xaxhan in that direction. He's going Lyric Thaumaturge this level, and I'm contemplating a feat like Metamagic Song. Is it feasible? Any suggestions?

MoleMage
2012-09-23, 01:28 PM
Oh. +1 AC, and the aforementioned changes to Dex bonus and ACP. It added up when I was half-asleep and thought my +1 was merely masterwork...

TekHed
2012-09-23, 05:04 PM
Probably better off to ask Dura about the Eye...

TheFallenOne
2012-09-23, 05:12 PM
The Emerald Claw isn't very keen on passing on information to their subordinates unless necessary. That's why I said questions about the nature of the Eye are better directed at Dura. Ethras is unlikely to know, and when she says so what are we supposed to do - ask Dura as well, wasting a question, or risk not getting the information Dura might have?

TekHed
2012-09-23, 05:36 PM
Still time to edit questions! I would think our characters would have made a clear list and had this discussion -before- Daiya asks them...

Postmodernist
2012-09-23, 05:55 PM
Did Daiya just ask Ethras all the Dura questions?

TekHed
2012-09-23, 06:09 PM
Yes, save for the troop contingent. I suggest Mole edit his post posthaste...

MoleMage
2012-09-23, 11:23 PM
I was under the impression that we didn't have a lot of Ethras-specific questions. Had thought that we might ask the same questions twice to fact-check.

What were the Ethras-specific questions that we did have?

Postmodernist
2012-09-24, 01:36 AM
I think you just lost the right to complain about bad luck in this game until further notice :smalltongue:



Dura probably knows more, so we should direct the more important questions at her.

Dura
Who is your immediate superior?'
'What is the exact function of the artifact called Dragon's Eye?'
perhaps Trebez Sinara? It's a shot in the dark, without the journal she likely doesn't know much yet about the island or Thraxis. Perhaps something like 'How many operatives does the Emerald Claw have within four(?) days of travel?'

Ethras
'Where were you planning to sail after acquiring the journal?'
'Who is your contact in Regalport?' substitute other city if she gives a different place as answer to prior question we're headed to Regalport either way, so better to know that one
For the last one, though this could be better directed at Dura, 'What is the relationship between the Emerald Claw and Prince Ryger?' I don't expect them to be friendly, but if they are our current plan is quite flawed, possibly suicidal.

Here you go. Emphasis mine.

Postmodernist
2012-09-24, 02:25 AM
Xaxhan should be fully updated for his level. There might be a few things like synergy bonuses missing, but otherwise he should be ready to go. Lyric Thaumaturge provides a nice buff to his arcane spell casting ability. He won't have the complete repertoire of a wizard, but it'll eventually expand a little. I went with Haste and Dispel Magic, which should count as crowd pleasers. I also got a new 2nd level spell learned. I went with Sound Burst for the following reasons: direct damage, area effect, Fort save target, synergy with Lyric Thaumaturge abilities later on, and the capacity to kill Shard :smalltongue:.

Comments are welcome.

TekHed
2012-09-24, 06:14 AM
Hey! What's with all the Shard hate! :smallconfused:

I want to say that Speak with Dead is such an amazing handy spell to have. Kudos to you Mole for taking it.

We're kind of a badass team in our resourcefulness. We also have three non-primary casters. It's neat!

Sal, when you see this, Can I do a level switch and sub out Psicrystal Affinity...I also just realized it's a relic from my first build order in the first place, since it's my flaw feat...but you have to have Manifester one to take it in the first place.

I'd either sub it for Psionic Weapon, or Psionic Meditation.

TheFallenOne
2012-09-24, 08:39 AM
Xaxhan should be fully updated for his level. There might be a few things like synergy bonuses missing, but otherwise he should be ready to go. Lyric Thaumaturge provides a nice buff to his arcane spell casting ability. He won't have the complete repertoire of a wizard, but it'll eventually expand a little. I went with Haste and Dispel Magic, which should count as crowd pleasers. I also got a new 2nd level spell learned. I went with Sound Burst for the following reasons: direct damage, area effect, Fort save target, synergy with Lyric Thaumaturge abilities later on, and the capacity to kill Shard :smalltongue:.

Comments are welcome.

Keep in mind Haste has bad synergy with our two main melees. To use the bonus attack Shard has to give up martial maneuvers. Grimmgang has to give up maneuvers and skirmish.

It's still a nice buff, but maybe not as good as you might think.

Postmodernist
2012-09-24, 09:10 AM
Hey! What's with all the Shard hate! :smallconfused:


Only kidding, brother. But we will have to keep him in mind if and when Xaxhan uses that spell. We don't want any accidents.


Keep in mind Haste has bad synergy with our two main melees. To use the bonus attack Shard has to give up martial maneuvers. Grimmgang has to give up maneuvers and skirmish.

It's still a nice buff, but maybe not as good as you might think.

Wait, really? I suppose it does, after checking the book. Still, +1 to hit/AC/Reflex and 30' of movement is nothing to sneeze at. Would you not take the extra attack? Surely DFI would more than make up for the lost skirmish and maneuver damage. Still, it's a good point. Other suggestions for a precious 3rd level spell slot?

TheFallenOne
2012-09-24, 09:23 AM
Perhaps I would, if both bardic buffs are up. But then again I can use Wolf Fang Strike to get two buffed attacks as well, including Skirmish. Which will be at 3d6 starting next level. Possily 5d6 if I get Improved Skirmish with retraining.

And the thing is, giving up the goodies of all my classes because of a single spell sure tastes bitter. But extra speed, AC and attack bonus sure are welcome.

Sallera
2012-09-24, 09:44 AM
Tek, you can swap it for Psionic Weapon, but no level switching.

TekHed
2012-09-24, 10:21 AM
Huh...yanno I was about to say I couldn't, because flaws are at first level, and you have to expend psionic focus to use it (and I don't have psionic focus until 4th level as is)...but...funny enough, Psionic Weapon's only actual prereq is listed as Str 13, so I guess it's technically RAW, though a bit unusual.

May I ask why swapping levels isn't allowed? It actually doesn't change a thing about the classes, at all, save for allowing a psionic feat to be taken at 3rd...I could even put psionic weapon there, if you prefer I leave mediation for later.

Or is there another objection I'm not thinking of?

Sallera
2012-09-24, 11:26 AM
You've done it too much already, and it's a bad precedent? And it does change things like skill points.

Anyway, you qualify for Psionic feats at first level due to being an Elan, so you don't need to swap levels.

TheFallenOne
2012-09-24, 11:34 AM
Maybe we post too much in the OOC, makes it easier to overlook things :smalltongue: like this


Sallera, I'm considering a shield crystal. Crystal of Arrow Deflection gives +2 AC vs ranged and seems to be untyped. Would it apply against ranged touch as well?

Sallera
2012-09-24, 12:33 PM
Oh, right, sorry; I wanted to look at the actual text of that, but forgot. Depends on how it's worded, I think.

TekHed
2012-09-24, 06:38 PM
You've done it too much already, and it's a bad precedent? And it does change things like skill points.

Anyway, you qualify for Psionic feats at first level due to being an Elan, so you don't need to swap levels.

Well too be fair, the precedent for rebuilding already exists, and while it would have changed the order of skill points, I wouldn't have switched 1st level but 3 and 4, so I'd have the same skills but would have bought them in a different order, and since I started at 4, it would make no difference.

That said, your solution works so there is no need.

Re: Shield Crystal: wording is http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ps/20070209a

Most of the wording just says "ranged", but the part about Deflect Arrows feat applies specifically against projectiles.

Postmodernist
2012-09-24, 07:15 PM
And the thing is, giving up the goodies of all my classes because of a single spell sure tastes bitter. But extra speed, AC and attack bonus sure are welcome.

Fair enough. I feel like Xaxhan is already spending a great deal of time buffing as it is. He already has a full 2-round party buff routine, and haste adds another standard action's worth of stuff into the mix only slows him down further. Other suggestions? Haste, Confusion, Major Image, Slow, Fear and Displacement are all pretty classic Core choices. Glibness and Unlock are also pretty solid selections, although the former is often prone to abuse and DM restriction ("I tell the king I want him to hand over control of the kingdom, because the gods said so. I have +a zillion to Bluff.") What else is there? Charm Monster? I feel like there's something awesome I'm overlooking.

TekHed
2012-09-24, 07:36 PM
Hmm...yes, the movement speed in particular is tasty, and at some point our enemies will start using haste. Also, there is nothing that says one has to use a maneuver...for example the rounds Grimmgang spends attacking to recover maneuvers, an extra attack is really helpful.

On the other hand, I know you are itching to bust out some Snowflake Wardance on some fools, so Mirror Image is a super solid choice...

TheFallenOne
2012-09-24, 07:45 PM
If you want to go debuffing too, Slow is a great mass debuff. Ray of Dizziness is an awesome single target debuff as it allows no save. Great for denying scary creatures their full attacks.

Postmodernist
2012-09-24, 08:04 PM
On the other hand, I know you are itching to bust out some Snowflake Wardance on some fools, so Mirror Image is a super solid choice...

Looks like somebody doesn't want me to take Sound Burst. :smalltongue:
Seriously, though, I seriously considered this. The issue is that Xaxhan is a pretty dreadful melee fighter (probably the worst in the party, even with Snowflake Wardance). That said, I strongly considered Mirror Image for my second level spell. However, I dislike overly long buff sequences, as stated above. Then again, anything that keeps our squishy bard alive longer helps.


If you want to go debuffing too, Slow is a great mass debuff. Ray of Dizziness is an awesome single target debuff as it allows no save. Great for denying scary creatures their full attacks.

Ray of Dizziness is not a spell I'm familiar with. I like it, especially the no-save part, which compensates for SR: Yes. The issue is that it's only a single target spell. I feel like for a third level slot, you've got to make it count. Still, good catch, that's a cool spell I'd have otherwise overlooked. I might go for Slow.

TekHed
2012-09-24, 08:09 PM
Honestly, I hadn't given it much thought. Between Damp Power and Energy Resistance, i am less concerned now about Shard and Sonic Damage.

Slow is great, since it either debuffs them severely, or cancels a Haste they might try and use against us...

Sallera
2012-09-25, 12:25 AM
Hm. The description specifically calls out ranged weapon attacks, although the rules text just says ranged attacks. On the other hand, I don't really mind it applying to ranged touch attacks. It's not like shields couldn't use the boost.

TekHed
2012-09-25, 12:34 AM
It also lists an example of a manticore, which fires quills IIRC. A minor quibble, but in DnD technical terms it's a ranged NA, not a weapon. :shrug:

Most DMs I've seen rule it as you just did Sal.

Anyone care to post up a final tally of loot that we are keeping/selling, and what the retail value is?

Sallera
2012-09-25, 10:01 AM
Nah, the technical term is indeed natural weapon, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#naturalWeapons) but I wasn't actually looking at the preview; that little section isn't in the book.

TheFallenOne
2012-09-25, 11:18 AM
Hm. The description specifically calls out ranged weapon attacks, although the rules text just says ranged attacks. On the other hand, I don't really mind it applying to ranged touch attacks. It's not like shields couldn't use the boost.

Alright. Neat.

So, if I read the DMG description right, Eyes of the Eagle are like... contact lenses?

TekHed
2012-09-25, 02:48 PM
Yep...Scleral contact lenses.

Sallera
2012-09-25, 06:27 PM
So, questions?

Postmodernist
2012-09-25, 06:48 PM
Can Mole just basically copy/paste for Daiya's questions?

Also, I'm going with Slow and keeping Sound Burst. While Mirror Image remains tempting, I'd rather have it on a wand. Sound Burst has too much synergy with Lyric Thaumaturge, and I need something that targets Fort. If and when I get another 1st level slot, I may pick up Grease, since that spell never goes out of style.

MoleMage
2012-09-25, 10:10 PM
Edited into my post via Copy/Paste

Sallera
2012-10-01, 10:18 PM
Sur'kil did leave you a few more Sending Stones when he left, so you can contact him if you wish.

How do you plan to go about seeking Matthias (if you do), roughly speaking?

TekHed
2012-10-01, 10:30 PM
I hadn't realized sending stones were single use...

Sallera
2012-10-01, 10:40 PM
They'd be far too valuable to hand out as presents if they weren't. :3

TheFallenOne
2012-10-01, 10:43 PM
Plus, why give us two if they can be used multiple times :smalltongue:

Postmodernist
2012-10-01, 11:27 PM
Sur'kil did leave you a few more Sending Stones when he left, so you can contact him if you wish.

How do you plan to go about seeking Matthias (if you do), roughly speaking?

I didn't know they were single use, either. I'd always envisioned them as magical radios, with the version that casts Message as walkie-talkies.

Anyway, we might find Matthias simply by returning to Regalport. Shard sticks out like a sore thumb, and the rest of us are reasonably recognizable. If we hang around Irelia's, he might bump into us again. We could even (either directly or indirectly) put the word out that we're looking to set up a meeting with him, should he be amenable.

Anyone else have any bright ideas? I'm interested in seeing the windfall from our loot sales.

TekHed
2012-10-02, 01:32 AM
I missed that we had two sets. I thought it meant he had one and we had the other.

As for how to find Matthias...if he is still in the employ of Dura's superior, he may be on the watch for us, in which case we may have to get lucky again with Daiya being able to sense him...

Not sure how we might otherwise "get word to him" unless he is known to travel in certain channels, which we don't know of (yet).

Xax is a bard...how about a gather information check?

Postmodernist
2012-10-06, 05:58 PM
Are we back?

Xaxhan will definitely be making a Gather Info check or two, I'm sure, but it's one of those roleplay abstraction things to my mind. It's usually best to have a plan, and it makes the story more streamlined.

TheFallenOne
2012-10-07, 11:25 AM
So, looking after Shard now is an unpleasant task we take turns in? I love this :smallbiggrin:

It seems nobody objects to me taking the Ring of Protection?

Postmodernist
2012-10-07, 03:49 PM
I like it, too. Take turns babysitting the alien. I'm fine with you taking the ring. I wouldn't mind the +1 mithral breastplate, if there's no objection. Have finalized our loot sale plan? The forums being down kinda screwed things up.

TekHed
2012-10-07, 04:22 PM
Awww...you guys are precious. (na-nu na-nu) :smalltongue:

TheFallenOne
2012-10-07, 04:55 PM
4 potions of Protection From Good sma****y smash
Eyes of the Eagle Grimmgang
+1 dagger sell 1151 GP
+1 mithral breastplate Xaxhan
Undead Servant Gemstone (one-use Animate Dead effect, lasts 2 minutes) keep
+1 Wounding spinning sword sell 9175 GP
Ring of Protection +1 Grimmgang
3 potions of Cure Moderate Wounds split
+1 rapier sell 1160 GP
5 potions Cure Light Wounds split
Masterwork light crossbow sell 167.5 GP
Emerald brooch, ivory crane earring
Masterwork studded leather and buckler sell 170 GP
8 crossbows sell 140 GP
12 gold
fancy hairpin
plus whatever other nonmagical gear Ethras and Dura had. I assume Ethras's armor was MW.

how much potions does everyone have so we end up close to equal? I got 4 light, 2 moderate

Before splitting the profits I'd advise we buy a dozen 100 GP pearls so we can cast Identify 'on the road'. Would be a shame if we find nice gear in the tomb and can't use it yet because we're far off the next market.

MoleMage
2012-10-07, 05:03 PM
I concur on the pearls for identifying.
Daiya has 3 Light and 1 Moderate currently.

TekHed
2012-10-07, 05:51 PM
Shard has 2 CLW

Also a Wand of CMW (27 charges)
and a Wand of Lesser Vigor (22 charges)

Sallera
2012-10-09, 10:50 AM
Dura had a pair of red dragonhide boots you can sell for 600g; I think you're correct in that Ethras's armour was a masterwork chain shirt. Incidentally, did you have any particular plans for disposing of the corpses, or were you keeping them around?

TekHed
2012-10-09, 11:07 AM
I was thinking we might sit them down with Shard and have a tea party. :smallbiggrin:

TheFallenOne
2012-10-09, 02:28 PM
I think we might keep them around in case it is beneficial to deliver the prince proof of having brought Vorgaard's murderers to justice.

Alright, once we get a total of the jewelry and other nonmagical gear I didn't list we can look how much each of us scores in cash.

TekHed
2012-10-09, 02:50 PM
Sah-weet!

I'll still probably have to bank all of mine if I want to get the stuff on my wishlist.

Postmodernist
2012-10-09, 07:07 PM
Presumably, the balance of the gold/loot split should go toward those who didn't get anything particularly useful to them, ie: Daiya and Shard. I'm down with the purchase of the pearls, though a dozen might be a bit overambitious. Xaxhan doesn't have any potions on hand, but he does have his belt of healing.

TheFallenOne
2012-10-09, 07:34 PM
Daiya though got the biggest piece of loot before with the +2 equivalent bastard sword; Shard on the other hand so far got the least out of the stuff we found, not surprisingly as weapon and armor are hardcoded into the character. I do worry though that giving extra coin to Shard would basically be circumventing the previous Rebuilding penalty. I'm mostly just hoping we find a good Shard item in the next fight so things balance out on their own. +2 wisdom amulet or something like that.

Sallera
2012-10-09, 10:48 PM
Another 1360g on top of what Fallen listed as sold above, then, assuming you sell all the jewellery.

TekHed
2012-10-09, 10:51 PM
Hey now...I gave up ALL of my saved gold...giving me more does nothing to take away that sting. Even my cheapest desired items are 5k-15k.

TekHed
2012-10-10, 07:11 AM
I'm really enjoying the way you are telling the story Sal. Very entertaining.

TheFallenOne
2012-10-10, 09:26 AM
Never roleplayed a visit to a barber, but I think a 49 fire critical deserves a bit acknowledgement. I'm curious how Grimmy's new look will end up :smallbiggrin:

13 335,5 GP in all. Easily divisible 12000 and a bit chump change if we go with 13 pearls. As Posty said, it is a bit much, we don't need to identify items we won't use anyway on the road(exotic weapons, any kind of medium armor from the looks of it etc). Then again, we will have to get the pearls sooner or later, that short Vorgaard stunt required 9 Identifies and I'm rather sure our trip to Trebez Sinara will be considerably longer. We could go with 9 instead of 13 if we really need another 100 GP each.

TekHed
2012-10-10, 05:46 PM
So, 3k each? It's a start, I suppose. :smallsigh:

TheFallenOne
2012-10-10, 06:02 PM
oh, add 625 to the total. We can sell Xaxhan's old +1 shirt now.

I think we missed a good deal of potential loot in the estate; Sallera was a little too good in giving us a sense of urgency.

TekHed
2012-10-10, 06:14 PM
Still doesn't change the fact that I won't be able to buy anything new until after we return from Trebez Sinara (knock on wood), and likely not then either. Takes a bit of banking to save up for the good stuff...

Just the next few things I'd like are 7.5k, 9k, and 11k respectively, not including big 6 items like a periapt of wisdom, or gauntlets of ogre power, etc.

I think we're set for healing, but a healing belt for Shard might still be a wise backup plan.

Postmodernist
2012-10-10, 06:48 PM
oh, add 625 to the total. We can sell Xaxhan's old +1 shirt now.

I think we missed a good deal of potential loot in the estate; Sallera was a little too good in giving us a sense of urgency.

It's actually just a mithral breastplate. Not sure what the total will be, since I'm on m phone.

TheFallenOne
2012-10-12, 10:30 AM
+1 mithral (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13939851&postcount=314)

But I was talking about your old armor. You had a +1 chain shirt, right? We can sell that now as it's not needed anymore.

That reminds me... did we ever sell Daiya's old +1 bastard sword?

MoleMage
2012-10-12, 05:41 PM
I don't believe so, no. But then it has been a while since that would've been an issue.

Postmodernist
2012-10-12, 06:17 PM
+1 mithral (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13939851&postcount=314)

But I was talking about your old armor. You had a +1 chain shirt, right? We can sell that now as it's not needed anymore.

I know you were talking about that. I haven't updated the sheet, and Xaxhan (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=245022) has a standard mithral breastplate, not a +1 shirt.

TekHed
2012-10-16, 11:31 PM
So...how much gold should I add to Shard's sheet then when all is said and done? 3,562.5 by my calculations for half price on a mithral breastplate.

No special dispensation to Shard for not getting any otherwise useful loot?

Hey Sal, since Shard needs to bank his money to get any of the things I actually want to get, could I open a savings/investment account in Regalport?

Alternately, I could trade in Shard's brooch of shielding for another 594 gp, and blow his wad for a Periapt of Wisdom +2...but that sets me back to zero again for the things that are more interesting than a +1 bonus to will saves and spell DCs, which don't matter so much to Shard since he usually just buffs.

Sallera
2012-10-17, 12:00 AM
Kundarak doesn't actually do much business in the Principalities; you can get letters of credit and moneychanging services, but for loans and investments you'd have to go to a more central location.

TheFallenOne
2012-10-17, 02:13 PM
So...how much gold should I add to Shard's sheet then when all is said and done? 3,562.5 by my calculations for half price on a mithral breastplate.

No special dispensation to Shard for not getting any otherwise useful loot?

If you are set on getting a 7500+ GP item next, what's the point? Even with a larger share of the money you won't be able to afford it.

TekHed
2012-10-17, 02:39 PM
Its true. Every copper counts!

TheFallenOne
2012-10-22, 11:11 AM
Did the ship I scuttled have a flag or a name on the hull? Or did perhaps Ethras and their goons have any kind of insignia?

Sallera
2012-10-22, 12:29 PM
The ship was named the Searheart; it was fairly small, and carried no flag. Ethras and her lackeys had Claw insignia, although the emblem was much smaller and more understated than on the tabards worn by the soldiers.

Sallera
2012-10-25, 11:56 AM
Mole, Tek, Posty? Anything more to say?

MoleMage
2012-10-25, 11:14 PM
Sorry bout that all. My week was a bit busy. But I'm back now!

TekHed
2012-10-26, 12:20 AM
should have offered 65...for a flat total of 100/week.

(takes more share of loot :grumble:grumble: :smallsigh:)

Postmodernist
2012-10-27, 04:34 PM
Sorry, massively busy week. I still need to update Xaxhan's sheet with the armor and gold. What was our sum total for each of us individually again?

TheFallenOne
2012-10-29, 07:09 PM
If we sell your old mithral breastplate and Daiya's +1 sword an even 4000 GP each by my calculations. Plus 6 100 GP pearls and 3 GP for drinks.

So... seems we are stuck?

Sallera
2012-10-29, 08:25 PM
Well, if we can get one more post each from Mole and Posty, we should be able to wrap up the separate scenes and let you meet back up for discussions (or just head to the Anchor).

MoleMage
2012-10-30, 06:41 PM
Dammit, I typed a reply. Must've closed the tab without posting it and forgot about it. Sorry about that.

Adding the 4000g to my sheet now. Sallera, is there a cost variation from list price on magic items in town? I might make a stop at a few stalls on my way back to rendezvous since I didn't buy anything for myself after the last adventure and am therefor a little burdened with useless money that could easily turn into useful items.

Sallera
2012-10-30, 10:30 PM
List price here, but with the Pirate Exchange around, you can probably find anything you can afford.

Sallera
2012-11-02, 06:41 PM
Nothing to say to each other?

TekHed
2012-11-02, 07:04 PM
Aye, but the Playground seems to be suffering from some serious lag lately...

TheFallenOne
2012-11-03, 04:27 AM
Is it? Can't say for sure, with my internet broken I can check way less often than I'm used to :smallannoyed:

MoleMage
2012-11-03, 06:36 PM
I had that problem too, Tek

Sallera
2012-11-03, 07:23 PM
The forums have been slow, for me, but error-free, which is leagues better than it used to be. I'll take slow load times as long as the load goes through.

TheFallenOne
2012-11-07, 12:49 AM
Posty, a bit of input from Xaxhan would be useful I think.

TekHed
2012-11-07, 01:18 AM
^seconded.

Sallera
2012-11-08, 08:12 PM
Let's try not to hold up the conversation for that, though, unless no one has anything to say on Daiya's offer or any other topic.

Sallera
2012-11-09, 08:50 PM
You've got five Sending Stones left, by the way, should that matter to you.

Postmodernist
2012-11-10, 01:53 PM
Sorry about my atrociously low posting rate. I've been absurdly busy teaching lately, and this is one of my first days without Saturday programming to address. I have a few errands to run today, but once I'm back, I'll be making a catch-up IC post. Again, apologies. I'm eager to get back into it.

TheFallenOne
2012-11-14, 11:11 AM
I would have thought we have less left on the Lesser Vigor wand, we burn through the charges quite fast.

Oh, I get
Lesser Crystal of Lifedrinking 1500 GP
Least Crystal of Arrow Deflection 500 GP

Who's the crystal warrior now? :smalltongue:

Postmodernist
2012-11-14, 04:28 PM
Oooh, 4k even buys a Cloak of Charisma +2... I'm thinking I'll pick one of those up, unless anyone thinks the party desperately needs something else.

TekHed
2012-11-14, 07:34 PM
I actually want to get a bunch of weapon crystals for Shard, but the cheapest I want is 5k.

I add 4k to my sheet yes? Anyhow, I have on my wishlist easily 60k+ worth of things to buy, and the really sad thing is that none of them are all that powerful, just expensive. Prob have to wait a few levels yet to have the kind of expected encounter loot to buy most of it.

Sallera
2012-11-16, 01:46 AM
I'm away for the weekend, so perhaps you could come to a decision IC on what to do next by the time I get back.

Or just chat some more. That's fine too.

TheFallenOne
2012-11-16, 05:03 PM
Now I get around to posting here and it's already late and I'm tired -.-

Will have something more substantial tomorrow here/in the IC. But wouldn't mind one of you taking the initiative either.

TekHed
2012-11-16, 05:55 PM
I'll have Shard make a suggestion

TekHed
2012-11-21, 07:16 AM
So...subtract 110 from Shard's loot? or was it 105?

MoleMage
2012-11-22, 08:30 PM
105. And we'll give him three sending stones while Daiya will touch base more often.

TheFallenOne
2012-11-24, 07:23 PM
We need our bard...

Postmodernist
2012-11-25, 11:38 AM
Sorry about the slow post rate- the holidays have managed to get in the way. I bought a Cloak of Charisma +2 for Xaxhan and paid the 105 for our spy. 60.21 left, minus any additional expenses we incur. So, once we get Ryger, we apprise him of the Emerald Claw/Kolberkon situation, and ask politely for the map. Anything else?

Postmodernist
2012-11-25, 09:35 PM
Nat %&*@$# 1. You've got to be kidding me. Well, the comic relief level may have just gone up in the game. At least the performance was memorable...

TekHed
2012-11-25, 09:38 PM
Ouch.

I agree.

:smalltongue:

Postmodernist
2012-11-25, 09:44 PM
This is actually going to be fun to roleplay. Still, we're going to need another plan to gain Ryger's attention (presumably in a positive manner, not a "nat 1" manner).

TheFallenOne
2012-11-25, 09:48 PM
Skill checks don't autofail on a 1, 25 is a 25 no matter if you roll a 1 with +24 or a 20 with +5. Though I wonder why you didn't just Take 10.

If it fails, I could use my +15 Tumble. It's not often you see a dwarf doing acrobatics :smalltongue: How Grimmy would hate having to turn his combat skills into performance art...

TekHed
2012-11-25, 09:55 PM
Skill checks don't autofail on a 1, 25 is a 25 no matter if you roll a 1 with +24 or a 20 with +5. Though I wonder why you didn't just Take 10.

Seconded. Also, if it's that your string breaks or something you can retry (take 10!) at a -2 penalty. Audiences like a speedy comeback.


How Grimmy would hate having to turn his combat skills into performance art...

Shard can provide backlighting. :smallbiggrin:

Postmodernist
2012-11-25, 09:58 PM
Skill checks don't autofail on a 1, 25 is a 25 no matter if you roll a 1 with +24 or a 20 with +5. Though I wonder why you didn't just Take 10.

If it fails, I could use my +15 Tumble. It's not often you see a dwarf doing acrobatics :smalltongue: How Grimmy would hate having to turn his combat skills into performance art...

I... I totally forgot that you can take 10. If our illustrious DM is willing to allow me, I'd prefer to do that.

How embarrassingly stupid of me.

TheFallenOne
2012-11-25, 10:03 PM
You better not fail at this. If Grimmgang is forced to breakdance there will be casualties in the party if anyone so much as chuckles.

Postmodernist
2012-11-25, 10:08 PM
I suddenly envision the party doing an impromptu stage version of The Wizard of Oz- Daiya as Dorothy, Xaxhan as The Scarecrow, Shard as The Tinman, and Grimmy as The Cowardly Lion. I guess Drasil can be Toto.

MoleMage
2012-11-25, 11:38 PM
I suddenly envision the party doing an impromptu stage version of The Wizard of Oz- Daiya as Dorothy, Xaxhan as The Scarecrow, Shard as The Tinman, and Grimmy as The Cowardly Lion. I guess Drasil can be Toto.

And that made me envision the Karazan Opera event, for anyone who played WoW back in the days of Burning Crusade...

Postmodernist
2012-11-26, 01:33 AM
And that made me envision the Karazan Opera event, for anyone who played WoW back in the days of Burning Crusade...

Whoa. I had forgotten about that. That was right around when I (thankfully) quit WoW.

Sallera
2012-11-26, 11:03 AM
I tend to say that once you've rolled, that's what you use. More importantly, this way is more fun to narrate. :smalltongue:

Postmodernist
2012-11-26, 07:42 PM
I tend to say that once you've rolled, that's what you use. More importantly, this way is more fun to narrate. :smalltongue:

I'm totally ok with this. Frankly, Xaxhan is long overdue for a bit of an ego deflation. Let's have fun with this.

Postmodernist
2012-11-29, 11:43 PM
Should we be making any rolls? I always worry about playing roguey/bardy/sorcerory/face types and not making rolls in diplomatic situations, even though I know it tends to disrupt the verisimilitude of the game. "I have +a jillion to Bluff, Sense Motive, and Diplomacy. Can't I just make him do what we want?" Somebody tell me if I should be making rolls.

Ok, I'll probably do the sane thing and wait for Rygar's response.

Sallera
2012-11-30, 12:06 PM
You'll want to make a Diplomacy roll when you actually ask him for something like the map, but it's not necessary when you're just talking.

TheFallenOne
2012-11-30, 07:30 PM
Vorgaard's place was on the mainland? Missed that part. Somehow I had the impression it's on a separate island, that's why I was so sure sinking their ship traps them.

Sallera
2012-12-01, 04:46 PM
Well, it is on the mainland, but it's also sort of in the middle of nowhere, so you weren't wrong about that last part.

Postmodernist
2012-12-01, 05:40 PM
Assuming Xaxhan has the highest Diplomacy here. [roll0] I'm not including it, since the performance wasn't that great, but Songbird should give another +1, though I think that's it for the bonuses. Feel free to aid another, dudes.

Postmodernist
2012-12-01, 05:46 PM
These rolls are sucking lately. :smallannoyed:

TekHed
2012-12-01, 05:48 PM
Shard's sincerity may be of help: [roll0] Or it may not.

TheFallenOne
2012-12-01, 05:53 PM
Aid Another on Diplomacy? No sir, out of character :smalltongue:

Postmodernist
2012-12-01, 07:40 PM
Ha! I should really buy Xaxhan a "snazzy outfit" or other sort masterwork diplomacy tool.

TekHed
2012-12-01, 08:05 PM
Ha! I should really buy Xaxhan a "snazzy outfit" or other sort masterwork diplomacy tool.

You already described your cloak of charisma in that way, I'd say combine them (that is add the bonus and the cost to the Cloak).

Sallera
2012-12-12, 10:56 AM
Mole, I hope you don't mind if I add Daiya to the Dragoneye scene to save a little time; your appointment with Matthias was for noon, and Syn would insist on everyone's presence anyway.

TheFallenOne
2012-12-12, 11:24 AM
Did we spend the night resting or was this one of these parties lasting until first light?

Sallera
2012-12-12, 11:58 AM
You had plenty of time for sleep. :smalltongue:

TheFallenOne
2012-12-12, 12:07 PM
Alright. I have been working on some flashbacks from during the war that will start haunting Grimmgang during his sleep :smallamused:

MoleMage
2012-12-12, 07:57 PM
Alright. If you'd prefer to speed things up, seeing as I'm the only one with a personal task today, we could just summarize the events of the meeting with Matthias.

TekHed
2012-12-12, 08:33 PM
no one wanted to jump Shard...oh well. *sigh* :smallfrown:

Sallera
2012-12-13, 11:24 AM
Adventurers. The only people who'll complain about not being mugged.

Mole, I'd like to play that scene out. It shouldn't take long, but there's one part that needs to be done properly.

MoleMage
2012-12-13, 07:51 PM
Alright. I like the scenes with Mattias anyway. Just don't want to hold everyone up too much.

Postmodernist
2012-12-18, 07:57 PM
Can Xaxhan use Prestidigitation to copy the map?

Sallera
2012-12-19, 10:11 AM
It looks like you could, but your copy would only last an hour.

TekHed
2012-12-19, 02:58 PM
Really? How does that make any sense? If he uses Prestiwhatnot to write with real ink on real parchment why would it only last an hour?

TheFallenOne
2012-12-19, 03:01 PM
My thought was the time limit refers to how long you can use the spell, not how long all effects last.

But if not, what would be the mechanics for making a copy. Dex check? Int check? Some skill?
Best would probably be Grimmgang does it while Xaxhan uses Inspire Competence. Before that, Prestidigitate the map so he only has to redraw the lines instead of copying by eye. Should give a decent circumstance bonus.

Sallera
2012-12-19, 03:10 PM
Prestidigitation wouldn't let you manipulate a pen any better than by hand, so I assumed Posty meant using the 'colour' function to duplicate it mentally, which would last an hour. Fallen's idea is a good one, though.

Oh, and mechanically it'd be a Craft check, I'd imagine.

TheFallenOne
2012-12-19, 03:16 PM
Prestidigitation is called 'Least Wish' for a reason :smallamused: so many avenues for creative uses.

Craft, so Grimmgang with Inspire and Xaxhan without have the same modifier... Eh, his choice whether to sing or draw. But either way this time Take 10 is a must.

TekHed
2012-12-19, 04:22 PM
Is there a DC for most effectiveness in making a copy?

Postmodernist
2012-12-20, 09:27 AM
Grimmy likely knows some of the finer points of cartography as well, from his days in The Last War. I say he copies it with Xaxhan's assistance. Besides, Inspire Competence (AKA: THE LAMEST BARD ABILITY) should see some use in a game, right?

MoleMage
2012-12-20, 06:08 PM
Grimmy likely knows some of the finer points of cartography as well, from his days in The Last War. I say he copies it with Xaxhan's assistance. Besides, Inspire Competence (AKA: THE LAMEST BARD ABILITY) should see some use in a game, right?

"Copy, copy, copy an accurate map!"

Postmodernist
2012-12-20, 07:37 PM
"Copy, copy, copy an accurate map!"

Ha! Exactly!

TheFallenOne
2013-01-03, 09:13 AM
Huh, a riddle. That I didn't expect.

Postmodernist
2013-01-03, 11:42 AM
Hmmm... intriguing. I'm thinking it's something like the priest is the sacrifice to the god(s), or that she venerated a weird bloody deity. It's also possible that she doesn't venerate anyone, and she only responded in the fashion she did to demonstrate how she isn't powerless and owed the god(s) nothing.

Either way, it's a good way to come back from the holiday break. I always like the puzzles.

TheFallenOne
2013-01-03, 07:36 PM
Violent deity doesn't fit the information provided.

I think the key piece of information is 'If you were to lose that favour, you would be powerless!' Murdering a priest looks like a surefire way to lose the favor of the gods, so I think this sentence motivated her act.

As to why... I think it was to prove him wrong. She 'worked earnestly' to get where she is. If it was all the favour of the gods it would mean she accomplished nothing.

Postmodernist
2013-01-04, 10:49 AM
Violent deity doesn't fit the information provided.

I think the key piece of information is 'If you were to lose that favour, you would be powerless!' Murdering a priest looks like a surefire way to lose the favor of the gods, so I think this sentence motivated her act.

As to why... I think it was to prove him wrong. She 'worked earnestly' to get where she is. If it was all the favour of the gods it would mean she accomplished nothing.

I'm largely in agreement here. Still, I think the possibility that killing the priest was a means by which she maintained her favor with the god(s) must also be entertained. He could have been a priest of a rival deity, etc. It seems a bit odd (UNDERSTATEMENT!) to kill someone just to prove them wrong or to demonstrate that you're a nonbeliever. Religious conviction is a stronger motivation for murder than maintaining your belief that you did it all yourself without divine intervention.

MoleMage
2013-01-04, 02:27 PM
Well, regardless, I should probably just save it to notes and say I'll work on it, to get things moving along, eh? Sorry for the slight delay on doing that...

TekHed
2013-01-04, 11:55 PM
hopefully we'll get more clues as our adventure continues.

Has everyone seen The Hobbit yet?

TheFallenOne
2013-01-09, 10:46 AM
Nope.

I'm rereading the last few IC pages just to make sure I don't forget anything of relevance in Port Verge.

Also, should we dump our two corpses over board while we travel? Wrap them in some cheap chains to be sure they go down.

Sallera
2013-01-09, 11:05 AM
Oh, yes, that would be a good idea. Was going to have Thaddeus mention disposing of them to keep the ship clean, but I forgot.

Postmodernist
2013-01-15, 12:18 AM
Xaxhan continues to bring it home with these sweet rolls.

TekHed
2013-01-15, 01:32 AM
Mmm. Sweet rolls. Sweet cinnamony sweet rolls...oh! You mean die rolls. Hmmm...nope you are sucking at those. Most definitely. Might want to go for Bardic Knowledge next...maybe you'll break your streak!!! :smalltongue:

TheFallenOne
2013-01-15, 11:42 AM
Slightly off-topic, but I just completely reorganized my build plan and will enter Master of Nine at 10th, so probably about two years from now :smallbiggrin:

There are just too many interesting maneuvers I want to try and my limited number of readieds makes things really restrictive. I can't even use a counter without reducing myself to a repetitive two-strike routine. Swordsage dip at 9 and Mo9 progression from there will fix that nicely.

Postmodernist
2013-01-15, 07:41 PM
That sounds flavorful and effective, and highly in character for Grimmy. I heartily approve.

Postmodernist
2013-01-16, 09:19 PM
Sal, you play LoL?

TekHed
2013-01-16, 11:20 PM
I wish I was a better artist...just got this image of the party drawn in a Wizard of Oz style. Daiya is Dorothy, complete with blindfold. Shard is the Tinman, Xaxhan as the scarecrow, and Grimmgang grimacing as a lion with a singed mane. :smallbiggrin:

Postmodernist
2013-01-16, 11:40 PM
I wish I was a better artist...just got this image of the party drawn in a Wizard of Oz style. Daiya is Dorothy, complete with blindfold. Shard is the Tinman, Xaxhan as the scarecrow, and Grimmgang grimacing as a lion with a singed mane. :smallbiggrin:

Can't forget Toto Drasil.

TekHed
2013-01-17, 12:17 AM
"Follow the Dragonmarked Road!"

Postmodernist
2013-01-17, 12:42 AM
"Oh, we're off to see the Lich Queen, the wonderful Lich Queen of Vol!"

Sallera
2013-01-17, 11:36 AM
I'm a terrible artist, and I'm still tempted to draw that. :smalltongue:


Sal, you play LoL?

Yeah, started a month or two ago. Can't say I'm all that good, though.

MoleMage
2013-01-17, 02:20 PM
Wait, you guys play LoL? Neat. What types of champs?

Sallera
2013-01-17, 02:39 PM
Usually end up jungling as Amumu, sometimes Riven or Annie on the rare occasion someone else wants the job. I generally just try to pick whatever role isn't filled.

TheFallenOne
2013-01-17, 02:43 PM
Now I'm wondering, how did Posty know you play LoL? :smallconfused: Do you perchance have the same screenname there and he ran into you, or did you make an obscure reference to LoL recently I didn't pick up for lack of playing it?

Sallera
2013-01-17, 02:59 PM
Probably saw me over on the LoL thread. I post there occasionally. (Although I do indeed have the same name in-game.)

TekHed
2013-01-17, 05:02 PM
looks like something changed on the boards...when I try to use the "find all posts" and "find all threads started by" function from a user profile (including my own) it takes me to the "you do not have permission" page....

Sallera
2013-01-17, 05:57 PM
Yeah, search function was disabled again a couple months ago, since the search index is gone.

TekHed
2013-01-17, 06:38 PM
What on earth would compel them to disable searching???

TheFallenOne
2013-01-17, 06:55 PM
Lookie lookie. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257651) Always worth checking the Board Issues subforum once in a while.

Sallera
2013-01-17, 06:57 PM
Server load. The search index was massive - so much so that when they were migrating the site (those days a couple months ago when the site was down), they pretty much gave up on it, which is why we don't have one at the moment. But even putting that aside, it's not the first time they've disabled searching to improve site performance. You've probably noticed that there have barely been any 500/503 errors lately, compared to before the move.

Edit: Yeah, I guess just grabbing the link would have been quicker than writing out what I remembered of it. :smalltongue:

MoleMage
2013-01-17, 07:15 PM
Sal, you play almost what I do. I am a little more dedicated to the jungle (I also do Amumu, plus Fiddlesticks and Udyr, with Maokai on occasion), but my backup is also Annie when someone claims the jungle.

MoleMage here, MoleMage there (but ShiftSlash on Myth-Weavers).

TheFallenOne
2013-01-17, 07:16 PM
That's German efficiency for you :smallcool: and the next strike in our long ninja war

Postmodernist
2013-01-17, 07:33 PM
I did indeed see Sal post on the LoL board.

I'm (shocker!) Postmodernist on LoL. I tend to play solo top or support, though I have moderate experience in everything. We should play together sometime regardless of expertise, even if it's only a silly custom game or something.

TheFallenOne
2013-01-19, 08:09 PM
Base, request tactical bard strike. Bard unit, come in, over.

TekHed
2013-01-19, 08:11 PM
If you guys want, Shard could wing it. :smallwink: