Hmm how high can you go? Part 1: Strength

[NullShadow]

While building my character for my friends campaign, I got to thinking of a possible challenge. Without using such methods as the cancer mage rage disease, build an ECL 20 character focused on feats of strength and post them. Bonus points go for flavor. The time limit will be 1 week from today.

The only real limit I will post is that the Strength score should not be limitless.

[Andvare]

I assume that means Pun-Pun is out as well?

An obvious addition would be war hulk for as many levels as you can get.
Start with the creature with the highest strength you can get, and still squeeze in 10 levels of war hulk.

[NullShadow]

Ah, I had figured there might be other innovative ways to do such a thing as well. I suppose the challenge would be the same for the other attributes, just as linear?

[Andvare]

Ah, I had figured there might be other innovative ways to do such a thing as well. I suppose the challenge would be the same for the other attributes, just as linear?

There probably are, but with strength there is the obvious PrC of war hulk. +20 strength (stackable even) is quite a lot.
I don't think there are similar sillyness for other attributes out there.

Another way could be shapechange into something silly and then buff that.

I haven't run the numbers (and I'm not going to), so I can't say which is "better".

[Spuddles]

There's a 4th level vile spell from bovd that lets you siphon a target's attribute score and gain that score as a stacking enhancement bonus to your own score. The siphon effect lasts rounds per level, the duration of the bonus minutes.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

BoVD has the disease Festering Anger, which with either a Binder level or a lowly Rod of Bodily Restoration (MIC) your Str score can be infinite. Put it on a race that doesn't die of old age, such as a Killoren or an Elan.

Fiend Folio has grafts that don't necessarily replace an existing limb, the Long Arm is fairly cheap. Get as many of those as you can afford, along with the feat Ability Enhancer from Dragon Compendium. Cast the spell Fuse Arms from Spell Compendium, and you get +6 Str per two arms.

[Eldan]

The obvious one, I suppose, is War Hulk.

Then there's Festering Anger.

Hm. It should be possible to build a Druid/Wu Jen gish that can get both Giant's Size and Bite of the Werebear.

[Mithril Leaf]

The obvious one, I suppose, is War Hulk.

Then there's Festering Anger.

Hm. It should be possible to build a Druid/Wu Jen gish that can get both Giant's Size and Bite of the Werebear.

Wu Jen's an arcane caster isn't it? Simple theurge would work.

[eggs]

Or just someone who can cast Miracle.

[Eldan]

Wu Jen's an arcane caster isn't it? Simple theurge would work.

Yes. I was mainly wondering if the spell levels would allow both without having to go cheesy for early entrances and so on. As the levels are 7 and 6 respectively, a simple Druid 3/Wu Jen 3/Mystic Theurge 10 should be able to get both, for a total of +48 to strength. Enhancement bonus is covered by that, but you can still get an inherent bonus, at least.

So, with an Orc, I can get to 18 (base) +4 (race) +4 (level) +5 (inherent) +32 (giant's size) + 16 (bite of the werebear) = 79 by level 16.

By level 20, we get another point for levels, and have four more levels to play with.


The Graft/Fuse Arms trick works with this as well, since it's an untyped bonus.

[Hirax]

Consumptive field is theoretically limited, due to the number of creatures you can fit within the spell's radius in a 24 hour duration (if you persist it). So while not technically limitless, if you can engineer a way to constantly be surrounded by fine-sized creatures, only people with truly infinite strength will be out muscling you.

Otherwise, a good standby is polymorphing or shapechanging into a sun giant, miracling in giant size, and persisting bite of the werebear for 85 strength.

[Eldan]

Throw in a level of barbarian too, for rage.

[Jack_Simth]

While building my character for my friends campaign, I got to thinking of a possible challenge. Without using such methods as the cancer mage rage disease, build an ECL 20 character focused on feats of strength and post them. Bonus points go for flavor. The time limit will be 1 week from today.

The only real limit I will post is that the Strength score should not be limitless.
Hmm...

Cleric.
Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell) Greater Consumptive Field, extended via a Greater Metamagic Rod, for 2 days duration (28,800 rounds).
Innate Spell (Summon Monster I)
Summon Fiendish Dire Rats (you're Evil, otherwise you can't use GCF) repeatedly. Your strength score goes up by 2 for 95% of them (1 in 20 will beat the save). Your strength score is capped by the number of rounds in the duration of the spell, so that's +54,720 above and beyond what you've gotten by any other means you happen to have.

But it's not infinite (limited by the duration on the extended persistent greater consumptive field).

[Mithril Leaf]

Yes. I was mainly wondering if the spell levels would allow both without having to go cheesy for early entrances and so on. As the levels are 7 and 6 respectively, a simple Druid 3/Wu Jen 3/Mystic Theurge 10 should be able to get both, for a total of +48 to strength. Enhancement bonus is covered by that, but you can still get an inherent bonus, at least.

So, with an Orc, I can get to 18 (base) +4 (race) +4 (level) +5 (inherent) +32 (giant's size) + 16 (bite of the werebear) = 79 by level 16.

By level 20, we get another point for levels, and have four more levels to play with.


The Graft/Fuse Arms trick works with this as well, since it's an untyped bonus.

Don't forget to be a lloth touched mineral warrior incarnate construct.

[eggs]

Hero domain Shaman (or Animal/Scalykind Cleric with an extra level 9 slot) with DMM: Persist, DMM: Ocular and Animal Devotion hits from Shapechange (Titan) + Giant Size + Miracled Bite of the Werebear + Miracled Aura of Vitality + Ape's Fury + Ability Enhancer = 43 Strength + 34 Size + 18 Enhancement + 6 Morale + 8 Sacred = 109 Strength.

I'm sure this can go higher (just cramming Barb/Frenzied Berserker dips could do it if the goal is just to be strong in combat, not cast spells), but this might be a good starting point.

[killianh]

These are two posts from the World Record board's record for strength. It isn't really all that TO so to a degree they could be playable (unlike pun-pun or and +40000 in X stat types)
Character is an Anthropomorphic Squid (2 HD +1 LA = ECL3)
Feral (+1LA)
Half Dragon (+3LA)
Mineral Warrior (+1LA)
Base creature is ECL 8
Barbarian1/Warshaper2/War Hulk 6/Primeval1/Berserk1/Frenzied Berserker1

Base Strength of 18 + 8 (squid) + 4 (feral) + 8 (half dragon) + 2 (mineral warrior)
Total of base creature: 40
Barbarian: 4
Primeval (Dire Ape): 12 (yes, I know Dire Boar would be stronger... just watch)
Berserk: 6
Frenzied Berserker: 6
Warshaper: 4
War Hulk: 6
Feats: Leadership, Primeval Wildshape, Reckless Rage (plus PrC prereqs)

Primeval Wildshape: +2
Reckless Rage: +2


Cleric 17
Prayer Bead of Karma
Ioun Stone (Orange Prism)
Domain Draught (Hero), (Evil) (To get Giant Size (OA) as an 8th level domain spell and Greater Visage of the Deity (CD) as a 9th level domain spell)
Craft Contingent Spell
Extend Spell
Persist Spell
Divine Metamagic: Persist Spell

Using Divine Metamagic (and requisite number of nightsticks) to Persist the following spells:
Craft a contingent spell upon the character to cast “Giant Size” and “Greater Visage of the Deity” upon himself (gets around the range (personal)).
Cast Girallon’s Blessing to grant 1 additional pair of arms.
Fuse Arms, which subsumes the 1 additional pair of arms, plus 4 additional pairs of arms (remember, anthropomorphic squid: has 8 arms + 2 tentacles!): +24
Elation (BoED): +2,
Greater Visage of Deity (CD): +4
Giant Size(OA): +32

This gives a bonus of 24+2+4+32 Strength to the character for 24 hours.

Total so far: Strength of 144

Since this is a Dire Ape, it is vaguely humanoid-shaped, and would be able to wear most items and wield weapons.

Belt of Giant Strength: +6
Dual wielding a Hammer of Thunderbolts (which allows a belt + gauntlets to stack) and a Furious weapon: +2
Gauntlets of Ogre Power: +2 (upgraded via MIC rules to +6)
Golden Arm of Nyr: +2
Jhuild (Rashemi Firewine): +2

Oh, and he has 12 character levels, so another +3 level bumps to str, as well as +5 from tomes/wishes.

Strength: 160

If LA and racial hit dice count towards stat bumps, put 2 more on there. If LA buy-off is allowed, pre-epic that would be another +2 levels which can be dropped into war hulk, and another 2 strength.

Note: No paragon, no Curse of the Brute, no tauric here. Curse of the Brute (I haven’t bothered to read it) gives a +21 enhancement bonus as long as certain stats are above a certain point, which overlaps with the current +12 enhancement bonus. Couldn’t see where paragon gave anything but a LA. Squid gives more (8 arms + 2 tentacles = 4*4 str) than tauric.

This one beat it

Have you considered abuse of the Artificer infusion Item Alteration? In addition to your cleric cohort, you could use the Dragon Cohort feat to get an ECL20 Dragonwrought Kobold Artificer, I think... Which could be a great boost.

Consumptive field and festering strength also give unnamed bonuses to strength (limited only by the number of squirrels you have available, and by how much time passes, respectively) so I'm not going to use them either. Same with the stuff that the OP mentioned he wasn't using.

A Fiend of Corruption buddy could give another +3 that stacks with everything else. Fiend of Possession could give +4 profane, though I'm not sure how to fit it in. Maybe the FoP and FoC could be the same creature (the cohort from Leadership), and the Artificer (replacing the Cleric) could be a Dragon Cohort?

I am also assuming that Jhuild does not stack. Lolth-touched has to be applied to a nongood, nonlawful creature, but that creature should be able to become good later (so that it can benefit from the Arm).

Based on the OP's calculations, modified slightly. I haven't checked if it can meet the PrC requirements with so few HD.

I also haven't checked the specific wording of each of these strength boosts, but most of this post is copied from the OP's, with a couple of the thread's suggestions included, as well as an addition of my own. I've included book acronyms on everything, as well as listed the bonus type, for the bonuses that are typed.

Character is an Anthropomorphic Squid (SS, 2 HD +1 LA = ECL3)
Lolth-touched (MM4, LA +1)
Feral (SS, LA +1)
Half-Dragon x3 (SRD, LA +9)
Barbarian1/Warshaper2/Primeval1/Berserk1/Frenzied Berserker1

total ECL 20

Base Strength of 18 + 8 (squid) + 4 (feral) + 24 (half dragon) + 6 (lolth touched)
Base creature's strength: 60

Class features:
Barbarian (SRD): +4
Primeval (Dire Ape) (Fr): +12
Berserk (CW): +6
Frenzied Berserker (CW): +6
Warshaper (CW): +4

Running total: 92

Feats
Primeval Wildshape (Fr): +2
Reckless Rage (RS): +2

Running total: 96

Spells
[Girallon’s Blessing (SpC): no str bonus, but improves Fuse Arms by adding extra arms]
Fuse Arms (SpC): +24
Elation (BE): +2 morale
Greater Visage of Deity (CD): +4
Giant Size (OA): +32 size
Bite of the Werebear (SpC): +16 [i]enhancement

Running total: 174

Items
Clockwork Armor: +2 circumstance
Jhuild (Una): +2
Arm of Nyr (DF): +2
Devilweed (BV): +2 alchemical

Overall strength: 180

I've probably made a mistake or two in here. Most notable is how I completely ignored PrC prereqs. I didn't even look them up. Corrections are extraordinarily welcome.

edit:

Cohort:
Divine Minion of Sebek Bladeling Cloistered Cleric 1/Factotum 8/Fiend of Posession 5/Fiend of Corruption 1 (only the last 6 class levels are vital. I just like Factotum)

Dragon Cohort:
Dragonwrought Kobold Cleric 17/Ordained Champion 3

Instead of using Craft Contingent Spell to get around the personal range of the buffs, have the Cleric use Ordained Champions spell channely thingy. (it's less expensive.) If that won't work, then maybe the cleric could summon up a Throne Archon (the only monster with Channeling) and have it use channeling to hop into the cleric's body, who then uses channeling to hop into you. Failing that, yeah sure, Craft Contingent. Or a Spellguard of Silverymoon.

Alter self]You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself.

Applies to Draconic Polymorph (which is based on Polymorph, which is based on Alter Self).

So, before using Primeval Form, going berserk, and such, get Draconic Polymorphed into yourself, for a starting Str of 68. Does this work?

With Draconic Polymorph, and a FoP/FoC cohort, the total goes up to 195 Str.

With an artificer... I think you could get around 225~ish? With artificer any typed bonus that's less than +6 is worthless, since a bonus for that type could be added by stacking on a bunch of +6 enhancement items, then changing their types to luck, circumstance, morale, etc. I guess it's only limited by how many bonus type names (other than sacred and profane) you can remember. Dodge bonuses can't be added, since those are explicitly to armor class only, IIRC.

edit #2: whoops, not enough HD for a Dragon Cohort. I'll try to fix that (while avoiding too much str loss) as well as PrC qualification some other time.

edit #3: putting the 6 war hulk levels back in reduces Strength by 4, but I think it fixes the qualification stuff, for a final strength score of...

191
wrote:

You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself.[/quote]
Applies to Draconic Polymorph (which is based on Polymorph, which is based on Alter Self).

So, before using Primeval Form, going berserk, and such, get Draconic Polymorphed into yourself, for a starting Str of 68. Does this work?

With Draconic Polymorph, and a FoP/FoC cohort, the total goes up to 195 Str.

With an artificer... I think you could get around 225~ish? With artificer any typed bonus that's less than +6 is worthless, since a bonus for that type could be added by stacking on a bunch of +6 enhancement items, then changing their types to luck, circumstance, morale, etc. I guess it's only limited by how many bonus type names (other than sacred and profane) you can remember. Dodge bonuses can't be added, since those are explicitly to armor class only, IIRC.

edit #2: whoops, not enough HD for a Dragon Cohort. I'll try to fix that (while avoiding too much str loss) as well as PrC qualification some other time.

edit #3: putting the 6 war hulk levels back in reduces Strength by 4, but I think it fixes the qualification stuff, for a final strength score of...

191

EDIT: note that the wording might not make sense. I simply copied from Muertog and emy respectively from this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870522/Highest_Strength_Possible_(without_infinite_loops) ?pg=1) post

[ericgrau]

191 strength lifts 1,314 million tons as a light load :smallsigh:.

[NullShadow]

Oh my god! I was thinking that a static strength score would top at no more than 80 or 90. This was above and beyond my expectations. Good job guys! :smallbiggrin:

[Battleship789]

Hmm...

Cleric.
Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell) Greater Consumptive Field, extended via a Greater Metamagic Rod, for 2 days duration (28,800 rounds).
Innate Spell (Summon Monster I)
Summon Fiendish Dire Rats (you're Evil, otherwise you can't use GCF) repeatedly. Your strength score goes up by 2 for 95% of them (1 in 20 will beat the save). Your strength score is capped by the number of rounds in the duration of the spell, so that's +54,720 above and beyond what you've gotten by any other means you happen to have.

But it's not infinite (limited by the duration on the extended persistent greater consumptive field).

Going even unnecessarily farther: take Commoner 1 for your first level and take the Chicken Infested flaw (and all the shenanigans involved with it), then the amount of strength is capped by the area that the GCF takes up (so we want a Widened Extended Persistent GCF to maximize the area.) The stat block for a raven says that it can be used for similar, non-predatory birds of a similar size, ala chicken. As a raven is Tiny, 4 can fit in each square.

Using the cone shaped breath weapon template from the Draconomicon (on pg 63) as a baseline for ~1/4 of an emanation, the total number of squares in a 60-ft radius is 433 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArlpokqajZdwdEJRNHkxdm1wNVNyZVVieWtULV8yQ mc) (counting the originating square, as smaller creatures can share the square of a larger creature), so 1732 chickens can fit in the radius of the spell. 1/20th of the chickens will make their saves in any given round, so if 34640 chickens are pulled out, 1732 of them will, on average, make the save, crowding the area of the spell full of chickens that cannot be killed with that casting of GCF. However, 32908 chickens have been killed by the field. During the next round, assuming that the character moves out of the chicken field/the chickens leave the spell's radius, a similar number of chickens will make the save and a similar number of chickens will perish. After the full duration of 28800 rounds, 947,750,400 chickens will have perished, increasing the strength of the character by 1,895,500,800, but only for the final round of the spell's casting (decrease the strength increase by 65816 per round from the end of the spell.)

Technically not infinite, and if you really don't want to bother with slaughtering an unholy amount of chickens/don't want to be constantly pulling chickens out of a spell component pouch, one could stop after one round and make do with ~65k strength for two days (after which one re-starts the GCF.)

Still, some of the other ideas are more elegant. :smalltongue:

[Morph Bark]

Going even unnecessarily farther: take Commoner 1 for your first level and take the Chicken Infested flaw (and all the shenanigans involved with it), then the amount of strength is capped by the area that the GCF takes up (so we want a Widened Extended Persistent GCF to maximize the area.) The stat block for a raven says that it can be used for similar, non-predatory birds of a similar size, ala chicken. As a raven is Tiny, 4 can fit in each square.

Using the cone shaped breath weapon template from the Draconomicon (on pg 63) as a baseline for ~1/4 of an emanation, the total number of squares in a 60-ft radius is 433 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArlpokqajZdwdEJRNHkxdm1wNVNyZVVieWtULV8yQ mc) (counting the originating square, as smaller creatures can share the square of a larger creature), so 1732 chickens can fit in the radius of the spell. 1/20th of the chickens will make their saves in any given round, so if 34640 chickens are pulled out, 1732 of them will, on average, make the save, crowding the area of the spell full of chickens that cannot be killed with that casting of GCF. However, 32908 chickens have been killed by the field. During the next round, assuming that the character moves out of the chicken field/the chickens leave the spell's radius, a similar number of chickens will make the save and a similar number of chickens will perish. After the full duration of 28800 rounds, 947,750,400 chickens will have perished, increasing the strength of the character by 1,895,500,800, but only for the final round of the spell's casting (decrease the strength increase by 65816 per round from the end of the spell.)

Technically not infinite, and if you really don't want to bother with slaughtering an unholy amount of chickens/don't want to be constantly pulling chickens out of a spell component pouch, one could stop after one round and make do with ~65k strength for two days (after which one re-starts the GCF.)

Still, some of the other ideas are more elegant. :smalltongue:

Considering a raven can fly, you'd have to go 3D with it instead of 2D, and feature it in a globe rather than a circle around the Commoner, inside of which 8 chickens can fit inside each "square".

I would also assume that the chickens that make their saves instantly flee, as you do not have control over them and suddenly 95% of their kin falls dead around them.


EDIT: I've tried counting all the squares to figure out how many spaces there'd be in a 3D globe to fit all the chickens in.


5
17 (plus 12)
33 (plus 16)
57 (plus 24)
85 (plus 28)
117 (plus 32)
153 (plus 36)
201 (plus 48)
249 (plus 48)
305 (plus 56)
365 (plus 60)
429 (plus 64)
Plus the Commoner’s space is 430.
The spaces outside the circle are all 48 squares, with four spaces, being 192 squares total, making for a total amount of spaces of 622…
What have I done wrong here?

[Battleship789]

Considering a raven can fly, you'd have to go 3D with it instead of 2D, and feature it in a globe rather than a circle around the Commoner, inside of which 8 chickens can fit inside each "square".

I would also assume that the chickens that make their saves instantly flee, as you do not have control over them and suddenly 95% of their kin falls dead around them.


EDIT: I've tried counting all the squares to figure out how many spaces there'd be in a 3D globe to fit all the chickens in.


5
17 (plus 12)
33 (plus 16)
57 (plus 24)
85 (plus 28)
117 (plus 32)
153 (plus 36)
201 (plus 48)
249 (plus 48)
305 (plus 56)
365 (plus 60)
429 (plus 64)
Plus the Commoner’s space is 430.
The spaces outside the circle are all 48 squares, with four spaces, being 192 squares total, making for a total amount of spaces of 622…
What have I done wrong here?

There are 8 "5-ft" squares, not 5. :smallbiggrin:

Hmm, for a 3d sphere, treat the spreadsheet I created as a cross-section (works for both vertical and horizontal cross-sections.) Adding "above" the cross-section by removing the farthest 5-ft section from the center to create discs that stack on top of each other should create the proper sphere.

Center disc: 433
5-ft up: 433 (the cross section shows that a 5-ft movement doesn't change the cross section)
10: 369 (removing the 60-ft squares)
15: 309 (removing the 55-ft squares)
20: 253 (50-ft)
25: 205 (etc)
30: 157
35: 121
40: 89
45: 61
50: 37
55: 21
60: 9

Now add up the 5ft-60ft sections (2064) and double them (4128) (for both above and below the center) and add 433 (for the base cross-section) = 4561 cubes or 18244 chickens!

Putting these numbers into the above yields:

364880 chickens must be pulled out for 1/20th of them to make the save and clog up the spell's radius.
346636 chickens are killed by the GCF, granting a strength increase of 693272 per round.
Over the duration of the spell, 9,983,116,800 chickens are killed, yielding a strength increase of 19,966,233,600!

If 8 chickens can fit into each cube, the numbers double! (36488 chickens to clog up the spell's radius, 729760 chickens are pulled out, 693272 are killed per round with a strength increase of 1386544 per round, 19,966,233,600 chickens are killed over the duration of the spell with a strength increase of 39,932,467,200)

[The Gilded Duke]

Let me see what I can do.
Get an artificer 20.
Required Feats:
Extend Spell
Persist Spell
Craft Staff
Wand Surge
Delay Spell
Animal Devotion

First make a staff of Shapechange (17th level - 60,750) Giant Size (13th level -25,594) Bite of the Werebear(11th level 12375) Unfettered Heroism(9th level -8,438) , Item Alteration(8th level -6,000) , Metamagic Item(5th level -2,813) Girallons Blessing (5th level - 2,813) Fuse Arms (3rd level - 1125) Each casting will use up one charge.

Then make a Wand of Metamagic Item (5th level -5635 Gp)

First cast Metamagic Item on your Staff, making the staff cast spells with Persist Spell for the next 200 minutes. Then spend a charge from the staff to cast Unfettered Heroism on yourself with a duration of 24 hours giving you one free temporary action point each round. Use an action point to wand surge and activate your staff to cast Metamagic Item Persist Spell on your staff, making the staff now persisted for the next 24 hours.

For the rest of the staff uses we will be using temporary action points instead of charges. First we are going to cast item alteration ten times, to make our ten items of +6 strength use all different bonuses. Then we are going to spend an action point to activate our Wand of Metamagic item give Delay Spell to our main buffing staff, this metamagic only lasts 240 minutes.

Then cast:
Giant Size 5 round delay
Girallon's Blessing 4 round delay
Fuse Arms 4 round delay
Bite of the Werebear 4 round delay
Shapechange 1 round delay

Shapechange goes off and you turn into a Marilith
Giant Size goes off and you grow to colossal size
Girallon's Blessing gives you 2 additional arms.
Fuse Arms melds all your arms together.
Bite of the Werebear gives you stat bonuses and natural weapons.


Strength:
Marilith = 29
Giant Size +32
Fuse Arms +32
Bite of the Werebear +16 Enhancement
Alchemical Bonus +6
Circumstance Bonus +6
Competence Bonus +6
Deflection Bonus +6
Dodge Bonus +6
Insight Bonus +6
Luck Bonus +6
Morale Bonus +6
Racial Bonus +6
Resistence bonus +6
Animal Devotion Sacred +8
=169 strength

The staff casts at CL 20, as staffs are based on your own caster level. Doesn't beat the 190, but after the relatively low initial investment you can keep the buffs going forever never spending a single charge.

[Morph Bark]

There are 8 "5-ft" squares, not 5. :smallbiggrin:

Hadurr, yes, you are correct. I filled in the 5 because it was 5 ft, a twist-up.

But yes, now we have better numbers. At least, assuming that the Commoner would be up in the air at the time of doing it (high Jump check result?) and the chickens could fly up (or could be thrown up or the Commoner would pull them out, throw them up and fall past) or there would be other ways of creating such a perfect globe of chickens.

Nevertheless, a Str score of 39,932,467,222 (starting 22 from an orc, plus the Str increase), yields a huge-ass modifier that can hit and kill nearly everything within a range of 5 times the max range of the throwing weapon with the highest range. Furthermore, he has a carrying capacity of (520x[4^3,993,246,719]) lbs. That is many thousands upon thousands times the amount of mass that there is in the observable universe (there isn't an exact agreed-upon amount of mass of the universe, but I'm going by the greatest rough estimate). If he could grab the universe, he could move it 50 ft every round (assuming a move action to "pick it up"), double that if he has Far Shot. Scientists assume that moving the universe will not actually deal damage to anything inside the universe itself, because everything that can happen has happened, and therefore if it is possible to grab the universe, then the Supercommoner can wield it as an improvised throwing weapon and has done so already. If it has already happened, then it'd mean everything in the universe that can be destroyed via damage was destroyed.

[Battleship789]

Hadurr, yes, you are correct. I filled in the 5 because it was 5 ft, a twist-up.

But yes, now we have better numbers. At least, assuming that the Commoner would be up in the air at the time of doing it (high Jump check result?) and the chickens could fly up (or could be thrown up or the Commoner would pull them out, throw them up and fall past) or there would be other ways of creating such a perfect globe of chickens.

Grab a Phoenix Cloak (MIC) for Perfect Maneuverability and a fly speed equal to base land speed. Because of the way D&D works, the chickens won't fall until their initiative count, so they will "float."


Nevertheless, a Str score of 39,932,467,222 (starting 22 from an orc, plus the Str increase), yields a huge-ass modifier that can hit and kill nearly everything within a range of 5 times the max range of the throwing weapon with the highest range. Furthermore, he has a carrying capacity of (520x[4^3,993,246,719]) lbs.

Just imagine if we could sneak Hulking Hurler levels into a viable build!

Time to steal the Tauric/Symbiotic/Lycanthropy loop Hulking Hurler base from the HH thread on the Wizards site (ID of zook1shoe666 is the originator)...

Base Creature is CN male Symbiotic Paragon Savage Vampire Ankholian Ravenous Nether Hound Fleshvigor Evolved Favored Spawn of Kyuss Cauldron Spawn Bodak Gravetouched Web Mummy Mummified Living Wall Juju Zombie Shadowslain Scion of Kyuss enlarged Corpse Bone Ghoulish Ghastly Dry Lich Greenbound Half-Lemorian Fiend Half-Air Elemental Half-Earth Elemental Half-Fire Elemental Half-Water Elemental Half-Celestial Epic Pseudonatural Half-Farspawn Wood Element Gelatinous Blightspawned Thomil Demonically Fused Magma Element Spellwarped Corrupted by the Abyss Half-Illithid Woodling minute form Half-Machine Twenty-nine-Headed enlarged Half-Dragon (Adamantine) Half-Dragon (Amethyst) Half-Dragon (Arboreal) Half-Dragon (Battle) Half-Dragon (Beast) Half-Dragon (Black) Half-Dragon (Blue) Half-Dragon (Brass) Half-Dragon (Bronze) Half-Dragon (Brown) Half-Dragon (Chaos) Half-Dragon (Copper) Half-Dragon (Chromium) Half-Dragon (Cobalt) Half-Dragon (Concordant) Half-Dragon (Crystal) Half-Dragon (Deep) Half-Dragon (Emerald) Half-Dragon (Ethereal) Half-Dragon (Fang) Half-Dragon (Force) Half-Dragon (Gold) Half-Dragon (Green) Half-Dragon (Howling) Half-Dragon (Iron) Half-Dragon (Nickel) Half-Dragon (Oceanus) Half-Dragon (Prismatic) Half-Dragon (Pyroclastic) Half-Dragon (Radiant) Half-Dragon (Red) Half-Dragon (Rust) Half-Dragon (Sapphire) Half-Dragon (Shadow) Half-Dragon (Silver) Half-Dragon (Song) Half-Dragon (Steel) Half-Dragon (Styx) Half-Dragon (Tarterian) Half-Dragon (Topaz) Half-Dragon (Tungsten) Half-Dragon (White) Half-Dragon (Chiang Lung) Half-Dragon (Li Lung) Half-Dragon (Lung Wang) Half-Dragon (Pan Lung) Half-Dragon (Shen Lung) Half-Dragon (T’ien Lung) Half-Dragon (Tun Mi Lung) Half-Dragon (Yu Lung) Were-Forestmaster awakened Paragon Savage Mineral Warrior Stonebone Remade Lolth-touched Half-Iron Golem Warbeast Dungeonbred Titanic Blood Ghoul Squid Ka-Tainted Madborn Reptilian Dark Thrall of Onysablet Hooded Pupil Katane Ghul Genden Fetch Half-Satyr Half-Ogre Half-Minotaur reduced Dragon Vassal (Yellow) Half-Scrag Skorenoi Taint-blood Wendigo Lost Tarterian (Shator) Proto Draconic Corrupted Beast of Xvim Voidmind Chimeric (Black) Bloodrager Quorbound Kaiju Forestmaster Dungeonbred Spirit of the Woods Warbeast Titanic Savage Mineral Warrior Stonebone Remade Blood Ghoul Lolth-touched Magebred Half-Brass Golem Squid Half-Ogre Tauric Maenad enlarged Blightspawned Forestmaster Paragon Stonebone Remade Half-Machine Voidmind Tarterian (Shator) Draconic Woodling, Savage Lost Proto Mineral Warrior Half-Brass Golem Bloodrager Corrupted Lolth-Touched Blood Ghoul Cave Troodon for a base strength of 4501 (might be lower, as this might include a barbarian rage bonus, or 4497) and +5 LA. (Since we are starting at 20th, all of this can be negated via LA buyoff...)

Hmm, Commoner 1/Cloistered Cleric 17 (replace with PrCs instead of base Cleric levels for 9th level Cleric spells [Miracle'd Giant Size] as desired)/Hulking Hurler 2 (for Overburdened Heave)

Might be viable to go with a Ur-Priest/Sacred Exorcist instead of Cleric...

Flaws:
Chicken Infested

Feats:
Extend Spell (Planning Domain)
Persistent Spell
DMM (Persistent Spell)
Hulking Hurler Prereqs (3 feats)

Items:
Phoenix Cloak
Greater Metamagic Rod (Widen)
Greater Metamagic Rod (Extend)
Rock (very large, sharp rock)
Nightsticks (?)

So after the chicken shenanigans are done with, the strength of this monstrosity is 4497 (Base) + 39,932,467,200 (GCF) + 32 (Miracle'd Giant Size, DMM Persisted, Extended via Rod) + 16 (Miracle'd Bite of the Werebear, DMM Peristed, Extended via Rod) = 39,932,471,745 strength.

A medium load (Overburdened Heave) is 533 lbs (25 strength base) * 4^39932471720 * 16 (colossal) = 10^(24,040,000,000) lbs. Thus, the damage is 5d6 + ((2 [sharp object] *10^(24,040,000,000))-400)/200d6 + 39,932,471,735/2 (strength bonus!), if an object of that weight can be found. Average damage is 3.5 *(5 + (2*10^(24,040,000,000)-400)/200) + 19966235867.

I think I did that math correctly, but I am not sure if that build is legal. :smallbiggrin:

[Eldan]

CN male Symbiotic Paragon Savage Vampire Ankholian Ravenous Nether Hound Fleshvigor Evolved Favored Spawn of Kyuss Cauldron Spawn Bodak Gravetouched Web Mummy Mummified Living Wall Juju Zombie Shadowslain Scion of Kyuss enlarged Corpse Bone Ghoulish Ghastly Dry Lich Greenbound Half-Lemorian Fiend Half-Air Elemental Half-Earth Elemental Half-Fire Elemental Half-Water Elemental Half-Celestial Epic Pseudonatural Half-Farspawn Wood Element Gelatinous Blightspawned Thomil Demonically Fused Magma Element Spellwarped Corrupted by the Abyss Half-Illithid Woodling minute form Half-Machine Twenty-nine-Headed enlarged Half-Dragon (Adamantine) Half-Dragon (Amethyst) Half-Dragon (Arboreal) Half-Dragon (Battle) Half-Dragon (Beast) Half-Dragon (Black) Half-Dragon (Blue) Half-Dragon (Brass) Half-Dragon (Bronze) Half-Dragon (Brown) Half-Dragon (Chaos) Half-Dragon (Copper) Half-Dragon (Chromium) Half-Dragon (Cobalt) Half-Dragon (Concordant) Half-Dragon (Crystal) Half-Dragon (Deep) Half-Dragon (Emerald) Half-Dragon (Ethereal) Half-Dragon (Fang) Half-Dragon (Force) Half-Dragon (Gold) Half-Dragon (Green) Half-Dragon (Howling) Half-Dragon (Iron) Half-Dragon (Nickel) Half-Dragon (Oceanus) Half-Dragon (Prismatic) Half-Dragon (Pyroclastic) Half-Dragon (Radiant) Half-Dragon (Red) Half-Dragon (Rust) Half-Dragon (Sapphire) Half-Dragon (Shadow) Half-Dragon (Silver) Half-Dragon (Song) Half-Dragon (Steel) Half-Dragon (Styx) Half-Dragon (Tarterian) Half-Dragon (Topaz) Half-Dragon (Tungsten) Half-Dragon (White) Half-Dragon (Chiang Lung) Half-Dragon (Li Lung) Half-Dragon (Lung Wang) Half-Dragon (Pan Lung) Half-Dragon (Shen Lung) Half-Dragon (T’ien Lung) Half-Dragon (Tun Mi Lung) Half-Dragon (Yu Lung) Were-Forestmaster awakened Paragon Savage Mineral Warrior Stonebone Remade Lolth-touched Half-Iron Golem Warbeast Dungeonbred Titanic Blood Ghoul Squid Ka-Tainted Madborn Reptilian Dark Thrall of Onysablet Hooded Pupil Katane Ghul Genden Fetch Half-Satyr Half-Ogre Half-Minotaur reduced Dragon Vassal (Yellow) Half-Scrag Skorenoi Taint-blood Wendigo Lost Tarterian (Shator) Proto Draconic Corrupted Beast of Xvim Voidmind Chimeric (Black) Bloodrager Quorbound Kaiju Forestmaster Dungeonbred Spirit of the Woods Warbeast Titanic Savage Mineral Warrior Stonebone Remade Blood Ghoul Lolth-touched Magebred Half-Brass Golem Squid Half-Ogre Tauric Maenad enlarged Blightspawned Forestmaster Paragon Stonebone Remade Half-Machine Voidmind Tarterian (Shator) Draconic Woodling, Savage Lost Proto Mineral Warrior Half-Brass Golem Bloodrager Corrupted Lolth-Touched Blood Ghoul Cave Troodon

I'll tell you what I always tell my players when they come up with something like that: draw me a picture that shows all the abilities this thing has, and I?ll consider it :smalltongue:

[Thump]

ECL 20, you say...?

Lolth-Touched Half-dragon Half-ogre Barbarian 5/Warhulk 10.


18 base + 6 LT + 8 HD + 6 HO + 4 rage + 20 warhulk +3 levels + 5 inherent + 6 from an item = 76

Wand of Bite of the Werebear for another +16 (doesn't stack with item, replaces) to get 86.

Right off the top of my head.

EDIT: Add Giant size by your friendly neighborhood CL19+ Wu-Jen for another 32, for a STR of 118. Fuse Arms for another +6, for a final of 124 STR. (57 MOD).

[Morph Bark]

(Since we are starting at 20th, all of this can be negated via LA buyoff...)

Sadly, this is false. The first point of LA+5 can be bought off at level 15 (not including LA and racial HD), whereas the second point cannot be bought off until level 27.

Furthermore, Baby Shmup, as that creature is called, is illegal as far as I know, due to some templates not being capable of being applied at the time they should be be. Of course, there's also the argument of "that's too many Halfs!", but screwcork to that, template madness is awesome (in small doses).

Also, I believe your math is off by one power. To calculate the carrying capacity of someone with a Str higher than 29, you need to take a number in the 20s (which you did correct), and multiply it by 4 for every 10 its above that. So for a number in the 30s, you multiply it by 4, or 4^1. In your calculations, you accidentally made it 4^2. In your calculations, it should be a medium load of 533 * 4^39,932,471,719 lbs.

However, since it seems you didn't seperately factor in that more than two legs makes it so your carrying capacity is multiplied by 4 (IIRC, could be 2), you can put that in, which would have it offset that error, making the end result the same.