[3.5] Where do portfolios come from?

[theUnearther]

But first, the obligatory disclaimer: new guy here. Hello. Been lurking for a while, then decided to join but kept putting it off because I could not think of a good name. As you can see, I finally gave up. And here I am.
Also
I am aware that there is supposedly a thread for introductions. The link atop the page leads to a closed thread, the last post of which links to a "new", also closed thread, the last post of which links nowhere.
So, is there anybody in charge of that?

Now to bussiness. If a character ascends to godhood in a game, who or what decides what portfolio elements (and domains, I guess) the new deity has? The existing pantheon? The new god himself? His whorsippers? Can an existing god try to oppose a new god's domain "choice"? Can the new god "challenge" an existing one for ownership of an element (without killing or de-ascending them, I mean)? For that matter, can established deities trade or steal or give portfolio elements with/from/to one another?

And so on and so forth. Any idea?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Clearly, you didn't look in Friendly Banter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249974).

And what you're asking is, to the best of my knowledge, not in the rules.

[pyromanser244]

if you are going to have characters ascending to godhood in your campaign I'd suggest getting deities and demigods if you don't already have it. it doesn't give any definitive ruling on this but about the first quarter is dedicated to giving you possible solutions to this situation.

one way to go is to give them a portfolio to match their personality and power. for example when vecna ascended he got secrets and intrigue added to his portfolio. because of this he gets access to the knowledge domain. since he is evil and encourages others to be evil as well he gets the evil domain too. and since he was a lich before he was a god he clearly favors magic over mundane and thus gets the magic domain. you can use this kind of reasoning with any character that hits divine ranks. for instance, a barbarian turned werewolf could easily have access to strength, moon, and lycan domains.

ultimately the DM has final say over how this will work in your campaign world. maybe he has to fight for the domains and maybe he get's them automatically. maybe both. you may also want to consider how the other gods feel about the newbie in their ranks especially if one of your character's domains overlap with theirs.

[Psyren]

There are no hard and fast rules for ascension. Deities & Demigods has a series of suggestions starting on page 218, so I would check there for ideas. It also has ideas on how to handle portfolios - For example, the PCs could take over the portfolio of any gods they kill (it mentions that this can be problematic in some cases though - if a heroic Epic or near-Epic Paladin slays the evil god of undeath, he probably wouldn't want to assume control over said god's necromantic portfolio, for instance.) Another idea was that slaying a god reverts its portfolio to the overdeity or lead deity's control, who can then dole it out to a new mortal or assume control of it until someone suitable is found.

I'd give it a look for ideas, but again - there's no hard-and-fast RAW to cover this kind of thing, since DM involvement is so integral to the process.

[theUnearther]

Thank you for your replies, though I am sad to know no such provision is officially presented. But not surprised I guess.

Also I admit I didn't go out of my way to look for the new guys' thread. That was mostly a comment about the system offering a choice, which does not work. I'll go post an introduction now then. Thanks for that too.

[Mnemnosyne]

Depends a great deal on the setting. In the Forgotten Realms, it's established that a lot of your original examples can in fact take place. The one rule that oversees them all, however, is that Lord Ao, the Overgod, must sign off on any changes.

Generally speaking, you have to obtain a portfolio in some manner to ascend to godhood in the first place. This can depend on just how you're ascending. If your gambit to ascend to godhood is to get a bunch of people worshiping you, enough to actually turn you into a god, then your portfolio is basically, those people, that nation, whatever links them together in common.

Other methods of ascending are like various gods throughout Realms history have done. Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul obtained the essence of one of the Seven Lost Gods (of whom there is basically nothing written that I know of - I'm of the opinion that they were deities that existed long before Netheril, but declined in power enough to become mortal with just a spark of divine essence remaining) and then challenged Jergal, Lord of the End of Everything. Jergal was bored of his position, proposed a contest and they would split his portfolios among them. They agreed. There was some interference from Malar, but in the end they split up most of Jergal's portfolios. Jergal himself continued to exist, in a much-reduced role. His portfolio became much more limited, and he became a subordinate to whoever claimed the mantle of the God of the Dead - first Myrkul, then after the Time of Troubles, Kelemvor.

Therefore, at least in the Realms, a god can willingly give up their portfolio to another. It's probably not something that happens very often (that may be the only incidence I can think of where such a thing occurs willingly) but it can happen. There's also the concept of Cynosure, the meeting place of the gods, and they seem to come to decisions on things on their own. So if they disapproved of the potential creation of a new god and the potential portfolio, they would probably meet and disagree with it. Or one of them would challenge the right of the new god to have that portfolio in Cynosure. Perhaps an existing god feels that a new god's portfolio is too close to his own. The gods seem likely to debate such a thing, and bring down a judgement. Lord Ao can overrule them, but it seems like they have some measure of authority as a pantheon, at least. Consider the events of Crucible: the Trial of Cyric the Mad.

And of course, Lord Ao can simply hand a god's portfolios over to a new person, as he did with Cyric and Midnight. There's no reason to suspect that he isn't capable of coming up with entirely new portfolios and handing them out, as well.

I think the divine setup works best with an overgod like Lord Ao in place - it allows for there to be a controlling entity to answer questions just like these. In the end it becomes a question not only of somehow ascending to godhood, but also gaining the stamp of approval from the overgod.