Druid Spell Suggestions

[Talya]

I'm in a Forgotten Realms game with a Wizard (rather inexperienced player who's doing an admirable, if unspectacular, job trying to follow TLN's Guide to Being Batman), a Swordsage (Tiger Claw and Shadow Hand focused), and a Rogue (tier 4 class played by someone with a distinct lack of any semblance of system mastery makes for someone we usually forget is there.) We just hit level 7.

Among other houserules: Natural Spell is banned. The level at which druids get Tiny and Large wildshapes is reversed, so no large wildshapes at 8.

My character is a Druid of Lurue. She's a Lesser Aasimar with Rich Burlew's "Fey Druid" option - she casts by charisma. (Any spell or spellcasting effect that relies on wisdom is moved to charisma for her.) Also has the Magic Blooded template (LA +0, +2 cha, -2 wis, some minor SLAs including detect and read magic). She has VoP (no discussions of how VoP sucks, or suggestions I get rid of it, etc. I know it's suboptimal, I chose it anyway, and I kinda like it, for all its limitations. I hate even thinking about gear.) I have Exalted Companion - Unicorn (DM waived the alignment issue because I'm worshipping a unicorn goddess), Natural Bond. I have a custom initiate of Lurue feat, which grants me Augment Summoning on all my summons, in addition to three spells added to my spell list: Reduce Magical Beast, Melf's Unicorn Arrow, and Winged Mount (as the Paladin4 spell, but for animal companions.) Nymph's Kiss, Touch of Golden Ice. Ashbound Summoning. Animal Friend. Natural Bond.

With 23 charisma right now, I have a significant number of spells per day. (6/6/5/3/2 at level 7). My current combat loadout while travelling through a desert protecting a caravan is: Create Water*3, Light*2, Guidance, Faerie Fire, Lesser Vigor*3, Produce Flame, Shilleghlagh, Winged Watcher, Splinterbolt, Blinding Spittle, Lesser Restoration, Kelpstrand (not water dependant), Plant Growth, Call Lightning, Poison**, Baleful Polymorph, Winged Mount.

** Poison depends on the DM okaying it for an exalted character. It's not explicitly [evil].

I've left entangle out of my spell list right now, being in a desert, which makes it far less useful.

She's very effective, despite the VOP, and I'm having fun, but truth be told, this is my first ever prepared spellcaster, and I'm not entirely comfortable yet with choosing my spells. So, which neat druid tricks am I missing? What do you like to pull at these spell levels and in spell levels yet to come.

[Palanan]

I've done most of my 3.5 gaming in the Realms, often with druids, and that sounds like a great character to play.

Between wildshape and Winged Mount you seem to have flight covered rather nicely. One lower-level option I always liked was Master Air, which is a humble second-level spell. You can't cross the Rockies with this (more like a small creek) but it's useful in a pinch.

Since you're in a desert, I'm assuming you know Locate Water from Sandstorm, which could be situationally useful. A quirkier spell that might require DM approval is Waterball, from Masters of the Wild. It's a watery version of a fireball, and apart from the benefits of water in a desert, it also deals subdual rather than energy damage, which could be useful if your fey druid is good-ish.

Another of my favorites is Share Husk, which isn't combat-related, but still useful for unobtrusive scouting. (Ask your DM to let you use the version from Magic of Faerûn.) Chain of Eyes gives you a similar effect in a third-level slot.

And from Lost Empires of Faerûn, I love Storm Shield. Highly situational, but when it stops a blue dragon cold you'll be praising Lurue all night long.

:smalltongue:

[Urpriest]

I do have to commend you on having access to Melf's Unicorn Arrow. That spell is pretty much the perfect mix of effectiveness and shooting unicorns at people.

[Palanan]

So, here's a few more suggestions. Arc of Lightning could be useful if you have several targets conveniently in a row; this is from Complete Arcane.

For a broad-scale overview of your caravan's route, there's Lay of the Land from the Planar Handbook, which gives you an instant topographic map of the surrounding terrain.

And, another oddball spell from Masters of the Wild is called Feathers, which in your case would transform seven of your allies into birds for seven hours. I don't know if it's ever been updated, but it could be useful if the entire party (unicorn included) needs to scout ahead.

[Talya]

So I'm wondering, why the frack do I have Baleful Polymorph listed as a level 4 spell?

*sets to work choosing another level 4 spell*

[demigodus]

a Rogue (tier 4 class played by someone with a distinct lack of any semblance of system mastery makes for someone we usually forget is there.)

Get him to use a quarterstaff with, at most a +1 enhancement on it, possibly other magical properties. Cast spikes (Complete Divine) on it. Sadly you can't extend it, but for 7 hours a day, he should get a boost to his damage roughly on par with half his sneak attack damage.

Also, Dessicate (Sandstorm) might be interesting to use in a desert.

[Talya]

Also, Dessicate (Sandstorm) might be interesting to use in a desert.

Yeah, about that spell...

Every druid guide highly prizes it. Every one also seems to have misread what it does. It doesn't do 1d6/level desiccation damage, maximum 5d6. It does 1d6/2 levels dessication damage, maximum 5d6. Unless there's some Sandstorm errata I can't find, it's not nearly as good as they think it is.

[demigodus]

Yeah, about that spell...

Every druid guide highly prizes it. Every one also seems to have misread what it does. It doesn't do 1d6/level desiccation damage, maximum 5d6. It does 1d6/2 levels dessication damage, maximum 5d6. Unless there's some Sandstorm errata I can't find, it's not nearly as good as they think it is.

I mostly recommend it for the dehydration effect. Sure -2 to Str, Dex, and no running/charging isn't that powerful, but it can be useful. Also the horror factor of getting magically dehydrated in a desert...

The damage is quite sub par, yes.

[Talya]

And, another oddball spell from Masters of the Wild is called Feathers, which in your case would transform seven of your allies into birds for seven hours. I don't know if it's ever been updated, but it could be useful if the entire party (unicorn included) needs to scout ahead.

This spell is damned awesome. Thanks! As a travel spell, compare turning yourself and 6 of your best friends into eagles (Flight 80') for 7 hours at level 7, vs. The wizard casting overland flight only on themselves (Flight 40') for 9 hours at level 9. Yeah, this spell may be the best travel spell prior to teleport. (Especially prefaced with "Wind at our Backs").

[Palanan]

Feathers does indeed rock, and I've used it before to good effect. Apart from the travelin' benefits, it's also a good way for the party to unobtrusively watch a large area, just by riding thermals and maximizing your loiter time.

[Darrin]

Yeah, about that spell...

Every druid guide highly prizes it. Every one also seems to have misread what it does. It doesn't do 1d6/level desiccation damage, maximum 5d6. It does 1d6/2 levels dessication damage, maximum 5d6. Unless there's some Sandstorm errata I can't find, it's not nearly as good as they think it is.

I think I'd stick with creeping cold, particularly if you can extend it. If you're looking for a save vs. dehydration, scimitar of sand does that plus all the fun of flameblade.

My general "treehuggers uncork the magical whoopass (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12183941&postcount=4)" advice..

[Wonton]

Vortex of Teeth. Especially if you can coordinate with your Wizard buddy to get some sort of Black Tentacles/Stinking Cloud/Solid Fog on top of it.

Also, if you ask me, being in Druid in the desert and not making full use of the Sandstorm should be punishable by death. :smalltongue: Haboob and Wall of Sand were two of my favourites last time I played a spellcaster.

[Talya]

The desert is a very temporary thing (we are covering much of Southern Faerun) but the bandit wastes currently stand between us and Halruaa.

[MrLemon]

I'll just throw Endure Elements in here, to cover any possible heat problems.
If they are already taken care of by something I overlooked, just ignore ;)

[SanguisAevum]

Also, always remember that you are not forced to fill all of your spell slots when you refresh your spells for the day.

Part of the versatility of prepared caster comes from leaving a few slots open so that you can take 15 minutes later in the day to prepare some specific spells you know you will need due to circumstances or divination.

[Talya]

Also, always remember that you are not forced to fill all of your spell slots when you refresh your spells for the day.

Part of the versatility of prepared caster comes from leaving a few slots open so that you can take 15 minutes later in the day to prepare some specific spells you know you will need due to circumstances or divination.

Clerics and druids can't do that. They must pray for spells at a certain time of day, every day.


The upside is, they don't need the "8 hours of rest" in order to gain new spells, either.

[God Imperror]

I like (that are not listed)

Coral Growth 3rd level spell that creates a wall of coral (Shining South)
Halo of sand 2nd level spell that grants deflection bonus to ac (Sandstorm)
Heart of ... 2,3,4,5 lvl spells that grant buffs and panic buttons (Complete arcane)
Blinding beauty 4th lvl spell anyone who looks at you makes a fort save or is blind (BoED)
Leap into animal 2nd level jump inside an animal and take control of it (Magic of eberron, so it might be disallowed)
Bite of... spells that grant several bonuses to meleeing (Spell compendium)
Primal ... spells that grant bonuses with a duration of 24 hours with two you get uncanny dodge, useful if you ever wildshape in something with high dex (Dragon Magic)

[dextercorvia]

Clerics and druids can't do that. They must pray for spells at a certain time of day, every day.


The upside is, they don't need the "8 hours of rest" in order to gain new spells, either.

Actually they can. A Druid prepares spells like a Wizard with a few exceptions. That isn't one of the listed exceptions. Coupled with "A divine spellcaster does not have to prepare all his spells at once," gives a pretty clear indication that, so long as they prayed at the appropriate time, they can pray again later to fill empty slots.

[Palanan]

Can someone point me towards the exact quote that supports this? I've always played divine casters just as Talya describes: one designated period of spell prep per day.

Otherwise, extending the logic, you could have unscheduled mini-prayer sessions scattered throughout the day, downloading individual spells like patches whenever you need them. That's not how I'm used to running divine casters.

[dextercorvia]

Can someone point me towards the exact quote that supports this? I've always played divine casters just as Talya describes: one designated period of spell prep per day.

Otherwise, extending the logic, you could have unscheduled mini-prayer sessions scattered throughout the day, downloading individual spells like patches whenever you need them. That's not how I'm used to running divine casters.

For your reading enjoyment. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/divineSpells.htm#preparingDivineSpells)

Edit: I'm not saying that I'm 100% about this, but I think the evidence is there. If you don't play it that way, it sure isn't going to hurt anything.

[nedz]

PH p180 1st paragraph

[Palanan]

Well, looking at the section nedz has cited, I'm seeing the following:

"A divine spellcaster does not have to prepare all his spells at once. However, the character's mind is considered fresh only during his or her first daily spell preparation, so a divine spellcaster cannot fill a slot that is empty because he or she has cast a spell or abandoned a previously prepared spell."

That seems pretty clear and conclusive to me.



EDIT: Also, back to spell suggestions. Although it's first level, I like Snake's Swiftness, which was used to very good effect in my last game session. Letting an ally attack when it's not their turn can be good tactics and good teamwork.
.
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[Randomguy]

Can someone point me towards the exact quote that supports this? I've always played divine casters just as Talya describes: one designated period of spell prep per day.

Otherwise, extending the logic, you could have unscheduled mini-prayer sessions scattered throughout the day, downloading individual spells like patches whenever you need them. That's not how I'm used to running divine casters.


A divine spellcaster does not have to prepare all his spells at once. However, the character’s mind is considered fresh only during his or her first daily spell preparation, so a divine spellcaster cannot fill a slot that is empty because he or she has cast a spell or abandoned a previously prepared spell.

One neat druid trick is that you can cast fog cloud or cloudburst before casting call lightning, and bump your d6 bolts up to d10 bolts.

There's also Sirine's grace, which gives you a deflection bonus equal to Charisma and boosts your charisma, and gives you a bunch of benefits when underwater. Its duration is very short, though, so it's probably not worth casting until higher levels, and even then only for boss fights.

[ShriekingDrake]

For fourth level, depending upon your DM's tolerance for STRONG spells, consider Friendly Fire from Exemplars of Evil (it is not an [evil] spell). This would be especially useful if you are getting attacked at range, such as when you're flying with your mount.

[Talya]

For fourth level, depending upon your DM's tolerance for STRONG spells, consider Friendly Fire from Exemplars of Evil (it is not an [evil] spell). This would be especially useful if you are getting attacked at range, such as when you're flying with your mount.

That's a neat spell.

[nedz]

Well, looking at the section nedz has cited, I'm seeing the following:

"A divine spellcaster does not have to prepare all his spells at once. However, the character's mind is considered fresh only during his or her first daily spell preparation, so a divine spellcaster cannot fill a slot that is empty because he or she has cast a spell or abandoned a previously prepared spell."

That seems pretty clear and conclusive to me.

Yes a divine caster can leave some slots free and prepare them later, you just cannot re-use a slot which you have already used.

[Talya]

But, you gain spells by praying for them, and you only pray for them at a specific time of day.

[Roguenewb]

Ah, the awesome "can my cleric do the open slot thing" debate. This always ends well. Ask your DM. He'll say no. Moving on...

Snake's swiftness is good, but mass snake's swiftness is even more awesome.


If your DM is the kind who's willing to kill, Last Breath is a standard action reincarnate, with no level loss. Since your party is lacking in other casters, its usually valuable, not as good as Revivify, but Druids can't have everything.

Sleet storm is awesome in a lot of the same way as grease is, but also blocks LoE. Not as good in the totally open, awesome in dungeons. Also, Desert sleet storms are hilarious

Magic Fang Greater is usually a good recommendation, but it doesn't seem like you or your companion are mixing it up in direct combat.

Stone Shape is usually hilarious, but it doesn't seem relevant here.

[Corolinth]

Wizard spell preparation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#preparingWizardSpells)


After resting, a wizard must study her spellbook to prepare any spells that day. If she wants to prepare all her spells, the process takes 1 hour. Preparing some smaller portion of her daily capacity takes a proportionally smaller amount of time, but always at least 15 minutes, the minimum time required to achieve the proper mental state.


Until she prepares spells from her spellbook, the only spells a wizard has available to cast are the ones that she already had prepared from the previous day and has not yet used. During the study period, she chooses which spells to prepare. If a wizard already has spells prepared (from the previous day) that she has not cast, she can abandon some or all of them to make room for new spells.

When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of her spells.

Now compare that to how divine spellcasters work.

Divine spell preparation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/divineSpells.htm#preparingDivineSpells)


A divine spellcaster chooses and prepares spells ahead of time, just as a wizard does. However, a divine spellcaster does not require a period of rest to prepare spells. Instead, the character chooses a particular part of the day to pray and receive spells. The time is usually associated with some daily event. If some event prevents a character from praying at the proper time, he must do so as soon as possible. If the character does not stop to pray for spells at the first opportunity, he must wait until the next day to prepare spells.


A divine spellcaster selects and prepares spells ahead of time through prayer and meditation at a particular time of day. The time required to prepare spells is the same as it is for a wizard (1 hour), as is the requirement for a relatively peaceful environment. A divine spellcaster does not have to prepare all his spells at once. However, the character’s mind is considered fresh only during his or her first daily spell preparation, so a divine spellcaster cannot fill a slot that is empty because he or she has cast a spell or abandoned a previously prepared spell.

Divine spellcasters do not require spellbooks. However, such a character’s spell selection is limited to the spells on the list for his or her class. Clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers have separate spell lists. A cleric also has access to two domains determined during his character creation. Each domain gives him access to a domain spell at each spell level from 1st to 9th, as well as a special granted power. With access to two domain spells at each spell level—one from each of his two domains—a cleric must prepare, as an extra domain spell, one or the other each day for each level of spell he can cast. If a domain spell is not on the cleric spell list, it can be prepared only in a domain spell slot.

You will notice a few things. Nowhere does it stipulate that divine spellcasters ever take less than an hour to prepare spells, no matter how few they're preparing. The wizard entry specifically states they may meditate and prepare spells later in the day. The divine spellcaster entry does not. What the divine spellcaster entry does contain is language indicating that they get one specific time they may pray for spells, and it outlines what happens if the divine spellcaster misses that prayer time. If a divine spellcaster does not immediately pray at the first available opportunity upon missing their usual time, the cleric does not receive spells that day.

So we see that a divine spellcaster can outright miss their chance to get spells for the day. They get one, and only one time during the day in which to prepare spells.

Divine spellcasters are less flexible in that regard. That's the tradeoff they get for gaining their entire spell list automatically, rather than having to search down scrolls and add them to a spellbook. Wizards are secular scholars. Divine spellcasters are priests. How they obtain and use their magic reflects that.

Wizards get to study a spellbook whenever they want, and have spell slots open. Wizards can rest for eight hours whenever they like and get their spell slots back.

Divine spellcasters pick one time during the day that has a particular spiritual significance. The divine spellcaster may pray for spells at that time, only that time, and no other time. What time that happens to be is subject to change based on the divine spellcaster's faith. They are praying for spells. It's like how many Christians pray at night before they go to bed, or how Muslims pray five times a day facing Mecca.

Now, with regards to the specific case of Talya's character, she mentions the Forgotten Realms goddess Lurue. From Forgotten Realms Faiths and Pantheons, page 101, second column, second paragraph, first line:


Clerics and druids of Lurue pray for their spells at midnight, in a sylvan glen or moonlit glade if available.

So not only do the rules in the Player's Handbook stipulate that divine spellcasters may only pray for spells at a specific time of day, there is an additional supplement which informs us when that time is for certain divine spellcasters.

[Talya]

Magic Fang Greater is usually a good recommendation, but it doesn't seem like you or your companion are mixing it up in direct combat.

Stone Shape is usually hilarious, but it doesn't seem relevant here.


Actually with VOP and wildshape, I'm frequently mixing it up in direct combat. Note, however, that there's diminishing returns on magic fang spells. I already have a scaling enhancement bonus to hit and damage on all my attacks.

The unicorn companion is a freakin beast of a tank, with full BAB, a +3 2d6 primary attack, natural bond, d10 hit dice, and as many hit dice as we have. She's also got some Devoted Spirit maneuvers and a stance from martial study/martial stance.

[nedz]

So we have contradictory RAW, like that's unusual.

[StreamOfTheSky]

My favorite Druid spell is Kelpstrand. At low levels, it's only mediocre. You get one or two strands, they have moderate grapple bonus, whatever. But...it scales very nicely. You add your BAB, caster level, and wisdom modifer instead of BAB, size, and strength, so the bonus climbs quickly, and you also get an extra strand every 3 levels.
Once an enemy breaks out of one, it's gone, so you kind of need to expect to win with very high odds to maintain it for any length of time. Still, awesome spell. Just fun to walk into a room, spray the bad guys with tentacle-looking wet kelp, and subdue them all.

Spell Compendium (where kelpstrand is) also has the Blinding Spittle spell, which in the desert could be VERY potent (no save blindness, but you have to hit touch AC +4, and all it takes is some water to rinse the eyes out and end the spell) due to low abundance of water sources.

Another cool SpC spell is Spiritjaws. It's like cleric's spiritual weapon, but 1 level higher w/ the utility of being able to grapple. Pinning ghosts is funny.

And yeah, Arc of Lightning is rather nice if you get the right set up.

[SanguisAevum]

Except you forgot to highlight the bit that completely contradicts your conclusion that divine casters are not allowed to leave slots open.


A divine spellcaster does not have to prepare all his spells at once. However, the character’s mind is considered fresh only during his or her first daily spell preparation, so a divine spellcaster cannot fill a slot that is empty because he or she has cast a spell or abandoned a previously prepared spell.


This paragraph explicitly indicates that a divine caster CAN save spell slots, and fill them at a later time during the day.

If they could NOT do this.. there would be NO NEED for this parapgraph in the divine section at all.

The statement expicitly says they CAN leave slots open, and, just like wizards, their minds are only fresh ONCE and so cannot replace used or abandoned spells during the day.

The RULES indicate this... how you play it is up to you off course.

Also... From the FAQ


I play a divine spellcaster and I generally leave a spell
slot open. I’m concerned about whether I am following the
rules correctly. After reading the Player’s Handbook, I have
assumed that divine casters can leave slots open; although,
they must still perform the daily prayer session to prepare
any spells that day. However, I can understand the
argument that all spells must be prepared at the daily
prayer session, and no slots can be left open. The
Player’s Handbook says a divine caster’s mind is considered
fresh only during his first daily spell preparation, so he
cannot fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell or
abandoned a previously prepared spell. I’m a little confused
by this statement.

A divine spellcaster does not have to prepare all his spells at
once. The text you’ve quoted merely points out that you can
replace spells you have cast or can switch prepared (but uncast)
spells for other prepared spells when your mind is fresh (and
only then). If you’ve left open slots, you can fill them in 15
minutes, even when your mind is not fresh.

[TopCheese]

So we have contradictory RAW, like that's unusual.

[COLOR="rgb(0, 191, 255)"]well... either way it isn't like you could possibly raise them to tier 1 if you let them pray for spells in one way or the other.../COLOR]