Help me out with a super hero system.

[Kaun]

Hi all,

I'm looking at running something with a Homers epic meets ninja scroll type feel and i figured one of the super hero systems would be best. What im not sure is which one to use.

I currently have 2e Champions system (i think its 2e, its old), its a little crunch heavy but its a nice system as long as you stay away from the vehicle rules.

But i know a lot of other supers games have come out so i figured i would ask the playground for recommendations.

So key factors i want are as follows;

I would prefer a points buy system over a class based system.

I want a system that has good rules for super powers being focused around a weapon/item. (not just using fluff, but say for example; the power is stronger because it can be disarmed etc.)

I would prefer something where combat plays quick.

Apart from that i am open to suggestions.

So sell me on your suppers games! :smallsmile:

[Hopeless]

Mutants and Masterminds might be a good choice as might Silver Age Sentinels but that depends on whether you want the original 2d6 or the d20 variant although I recall they did another version based on the Authority which was 2d10.

Big Eyes Small Mouth which Silver Age Sentinels was derived from might be a better fit but that really depends on your preferences.

How much scope will there be for experience gain?

Blood of Heroes based on Mayfairs DC Heroes rpg might also be worth considering, I know Guardians of Order who produced Silver Age and BESM did base some other versions on anime series such as Slayers, Trigun and El Hazard and of course Sailor Moon but it really depends on what you want to play ultimately.

Any other suggestions?

There is a Marvel game from Margaret Weis but not sure that fits your original suggestions, oh before I forget (again) there's also Icons which is somewhat based on the older Marvel FASERIP system but note I said somewhat based on

[tensai_oni]

Hello. Mutants and Masterminds 2nd ed was made for this. I mean literally - it's good for most cinematic settings, but it was made to be a superhero system.

-Points buy: check. All a "power level" affects is caps, but other than that it's 100% What You Buy is What You Get.
-Item-based powers: check. Devices can be disarmed, devices can be taken from you. And of course, they give you powers.
-Quick combat: minions (mooks) usually go down in a single hit, but even normal enemies can be offed quicker than in DnD for example. Does that count?

[Hopeless]

Hello. Mutants and Masterminds 2nd ed was made for this. I mean literally - it's good for most cinematic settings, but it was made to be a superhero system.

-Points buy: check. All a "power level" affects is caps, but other than that it's 100% What You Buy is What You Get.
-Item-based powers: check. Devices can be disarmed, devices can be taken from you. And of course, they give you powers.
-Quick combat: minions (mooks) usually go down in a single hit, but even normal enemies can be offed quicker than in DnD for example. Does that count?

You might want to check out the supplements since one of them goes into great detail providing npcs which you might find useful.
More into Third edition but Second has alot more resources for the moment!

[tensai_oni]

Mutants and Masterminds 3rd ed is good too. The two editions are not that fundamentally different, the later one is slightly more streamlined and balanced.

The first ed is considered a disappointment by many though.

[Andrewmoreton]

My favorite is Hero system (Champions ) later versions of the system are more polished , I stopped at 5th ed but 6th Ed looks like it is an improvement in some areas.

Wild talants (Arc Dream publishing)is a point based system which has a lot of similarities to Hero System in its point system but radically different game mechanics, a d10 dice pool system which if you can wrap your head around it may play faster than hero system I have not run much of it but it had promise.

I hated Mutants and Masterminds 1st edition, recently played 3rd edition at a con and found the game system still had all the same problems. If you like champions you may dislike it as well but a lot of people seem to like it so it must be a personal thing (I find the damage system unplayable and it is trivially easy for some characters to be immune to others damage at the same power level. I am sure there must be a way to avoid that but I can't)

[Tengu_temp]

(I find the damage system unplayable and it is trivially easy for some characters to be immune to others damage at the same power level. I am sure there must be a way to avoid that but I can't)

Straight damage is not the only way to take someone down in M&M. If someone is immune to damage, try powers that target saving throws other than Toughness.

And yes, it's pretty easy to make a broken character in M&M - it's the price most universal systems pay for being so versatile. Which is why everyone needs to build their characters openly and under the DM's supervision, to make sure they're more or less at the same power level. Hell, you should do that in most RPGs anyway, universal systems just assume you will do it.

[Kaun]

Wow lots of responses! Thanks guys!

Champions is up to 6e! wow i guess i did buy my Champions books back in like '97 lol.

I have heard good things about M&M so i will give that a look, is it worth looking at 2e or should i just go right to 3e as I am new to the system?

I haven't heard of Wild talents but i might try tracking it down.

[Tengu_temp]

2e has more books and its fanbase is still bigger, but 3e is a slightly better system and its fanbase is growing every day. If you know other M&M players, probably go with 2e, but if you're introducing the system to your group 3e is a better pick.

[JonathonWilder]

From what my DM and GM says the HERO System is one of the best not only for superhero roleplay but for many other roleplay types/genres as well. It's is also very adaptive, you can even take a character from just about any series. Whether this is books, anime and manga, movies, comics, exc... and make that character by the HERO System. For my GM at least you just need to give a good description of the character in question, what they can do, their powers and abilities, even the character's flaws and stat of mind.

From what I have seen it is a very balanced system, and with a competent GM you can make characters that are equal of level yet still exactly to nearly exactly what the player wanted. You can even work spellcasters into game, something that is more difficult for many superhero roleplaying systems though my GM did have to work with me on creating a spell pool and a list of usable spells (a list that can and will grow as time goes on).

[Tavar]

Hero system is incredibly versatile: I have seen it do stuff like historical roleplay with no powers, to Call of Cuthulu like games, to Mega man or Super powered alien special agent games. Hell, I even have some thoughts on how you could do Avataar the last airbender, Bleach, and mass effect. The key is the amount of points given, as well as the powers allowed. The cost of this versatility is that it can be a bit rules heavy.

From what I understand, M&M is more focused, but in its focus it is easier to use.

Yo could also try some of the more rules light systems, like fate.

[Kaun]

I did like the hero system when i last played it (like 8 years ago :smalleek:) so i might dig around and have a look at the new editions.

Thanks playground!

[Knaight]

I'd actually avoid super hero systems for this, and look into wuxia. Legends of the Wulin has all sorts of superhuman abilities, it has fighting styles that basically contain things that are essentially superpowers, it features weapon use heavily, and it features characters that are broadly capable. Essentially, it operates in the exact place between the Homeric epics and something like Ninja Scroll. So:

Point Buy: Yep. You have ranks, you spend points on skills, internal and external martial arts, and similar. Also, you have a second kind of points that you spend to connect your character to the setting.

Weapon Focused: Yes, very much. Weapons are deeply tied to styles, and there are style, weapon, and similar interactions. For instance there is an orthodox style called Eight Legends that works with the four traditional weapons (Sword, Saber, Spear, Staff), centered around a wide variety of strikes. It's solid against most weapons, but is generally vulnerable to the unorthodox - meaning that flexible weapons, and odd styles have an edge against it. This level of weapon focus is downright common.

Combat Speed: Combat is relatively quick, once you get used to it. It's a complex system, yes, but once you get used to how it plays it is also a remarkably fast moving one.

[Jerthanis]

(I find the damage system unplayable and it is trivially easy for some characters to be immune to others damage at the same power level. I am sure there must be a way to avoid that but I can't)

I actually found the damage system pretty unfun too in Mutants and Masterminds 2nd edition, even though I avoided the trouble with immune-to-damage characters.

I hate how every single attack is save-or-lose. The penalty for failing a toughness save by a tiny bit is incredibly minor, but failing by a lot is essentially totally incapacitating. Since the range of possible rolls is a range of 20 and the range of possible outcomes between unaffected and taken out is 15, it means every single blow could be the final attack regardless of the enemy's condition. It's like if in D&D a longsword did 1d20 damage, people had about 5 HP, and everyone had DR 10/-... you're just swinging until the dice turn up "you win".

[Beleriphon]

I actually found the damage system pretty unfun too in Mutants and Masterminds 2nd edition, even though I avoided the trouble with immune-to-damage characters.

I hate how every single attack is save-or-lose. The penalty for failing a toughness save by a tiny bit is incredibly minor, but failing by a lot is essentially totally incapacitating.

This is why Hero Points exist, to make sure that you don't lose on the first roll. Remember that hero Point turns any roll less than 10 into an 11. So there are mechanisms in place to help alleviate the way the toughness system in M&M works as far as swinginess goes. Mutants and Masterminds Third Edition has expanded the range of the results a bit, and made the most severe result not quite so debilitating, either way only the most horribly defense/toughness . I either edition though only the most defense/toughness shifted characters should be worrying about instand outs.

I'd say the biggest difference is failing by two degrees doesn't auto stun a character and thus doesn't take them out of combat until the beginning of their next turn.

[Kaun]

I'd actually avoid super hero systems for this, and look into wuxia. Legends of the Wulin

I have heard a lot of good things re this system, i shall give it a look.

How ever i do have a few additional questions re the Hero system;

Is there some where i can get a look at the 6e books in PDF format?

usually with new systems i steal sample them first, it gives me a chance to decide if i like the system or not. Then i generally buy hard copies of the core books once i decide to run the game (mainly due to my dislike of not having a hunk of dead tree on hand during sessions.)

I have found a lot of the 5e stuff but nothing for 6e.

[Andrewmoreton]

The Hero games web store seems to sell pdfs of the main rule books
https://www.herogames.com/browse.htm

If you are looking for none purchased versions I can't help you

[Knaight]

As far as I know, they never released a basic version of HERO, and it's the full version or nothing.

[Kaun]

Yeah i am digging through a copy of 5e i got my hands on the other day. Looks pretty damn rules heavy, which i am not totally opposed too, does make for a lot of reading though.

[Knaight]

Yeah i am digging through a copy of 5e i got my hands on the other day. Looks pretty damn rules heavy, which i am not totally opposed too, does make for a lot of reading though.

HERO is rules heavy, yes. It makes GURPS look like a rules light game, which is more than enough for me to take GURPS over it every time, even if HERO is a bit more versatile.

[Kaun]

i have been ignoring GURPS as an option, have to go look at the build options and re think things.

[Andrewmoreton]

I like GURPS and HERO system. However I use them differently GURPS does 'realism' better if I was running a realistic game with super powers added I would use GURPS. If I want to run something more like Superman or the X-Men I would use HERO system as I find it does powerful superheroes better.

HERO is rules heavy for character design but less so in play as most of the choices are made at character design (unless you let a player have a variable power pool, don't unless they are a maths wizard rules expert). As GM I found it very useful to buy one or more of the villain books as even if you don't want to use the villains backgrounds its a trivial job to change the fluff and use the stats and can save a lot of work ,