Killing Clericzilla

[demigodus]

There seem to be a lot of guides and suggestions for making clericzillas, but I can't find too many on how to beat these creations. Most suggestions tend to revolve around the wizard spell list.

So, how would you go about killing a Clericzilla, without playing a wizard/sorcerer? Preferably before acquiring level 9 spells.

[Wings of Peace]

There seem to be a lot of guides and suggestions for making clericzillas, but I can't find too many on how to beat these creations. Most suggestions tend to revolve around the wizard spell list.

So, how would you go about killing a Clericzilla, without playing a wizard/sorcerer? Preferably before acquiring level 9 spells.

By being a better Clericzilla. That's about it.

[HunterOfJello]

Druidzilla Archivistzilla Artificerzilla Spell-to-PowerEruditezilla, etc.

[dextercorvia]

You could also try Druidzilla or Archivist.

Honestly and seriously, it is going to depend on the specific Clericzilla. What are his buffs/defenses? Find the hole, and hit that. The classes that are best suited to finding and exploiting said weakness are going to be T1. However, if you know what you are going against, and have time to plan your build to do so, you could knock one down with a T3 or 4.

Edit: The main problem with this is that Clericzilla can just change his buffs the next day.

[Mithril Leaf]

To built a well made clericzilla (something akin to the original twice betrayer) you'd pretty much have to be a really paranoid and clever wizard, a better foozilla, or a teleporty mailman. Mailman seems like your best bet honestly.

[TopCheese]

Binder X/Cleric Y/ Divine Anima Mage Z/Cleric N

I think you can pull this off without cleric but...

You use turn undead uses to become immune to essentially everything through a feat and the Anima Mage class features.. Or something like that haha.

You might want to ask around about this build but it is one of the strongest things in the game (without becoming Pun Pun).

By strongest I mean fricken broken as hell.

[Roguenewb]

This is like the fourth time in a week I'm going to start a response as such:

Aaah, the noble art of (divine-)mage slaying. Thankfully, Cleric-slaying is a tad bit easier than the slaying of high level wizards. One of the reasons is that there is a fair amount of Athiest-Support. Things that help you resist clerics all around. If you can build your character to win, look at stuff from Elder Evils and Exemplars of Evil, these have a bunch of good stuff to kill those god-lovers. If instead, you are dependent on prebuilt characters, you still have options.

CoDzilla tends to be reliant on buff spells, many of which often have a non-renewable resource (turn attempts) fuelling them. The solution? Dispels. Clerics can boost their CL a bit (Divine Spell Power comes to mind), but if you can hit them with one or two dispels in the first round, it can often make them pretty easy. Especially today, where most clerics are Cloistered Clerics packing divine power, a solid dispel hit can leave them at your mercy.

At low levels (<10), Arcane Turmoil is an absolute champ. Dispelling braid is about the only item I can think of that helps, but hell, play the averages. At mid level (11+), Ioun stones, beads of karma, and a few other things can boost your CL, giving you a solid chance to tear down the spell wall. If you want to guarantee victory, hit with a scroll of disjunction. When that full bab +12 strength large glowing armored, flying, blinking monster turns back into a man in a white robe with half bab, send in the fighters. Or you know, Bands of Steel.

If you have the standard 2 caster party, assuming you aren't in a situation where you are stuck with a maxed-out normal Dispel Magic, one dispel from each caster should (using easy stats) tear down half his protection. Doing it two rounds in a row and he's outta there. And remember, Dispel Magic is celerity-able.

If you can do some divining, and find out he's gonna back minions, dismissal is nice, but banishment is truly a joy to behold. AMF the warrior is cute too, clerics tend to have slightly less mobility options than the Wizard, and because you bothered to dispel, chances are those are down.

Good Luck.

Ps. Sorry, but I have no idea how you kill a tier one with no casting, but at least this plan lets you use *any* caster.

[eggs]

Are Psionics out? Psions can work under the same principle as Wizards/Sorcerers/Archivists/Artificers.

Are you using Clericzilla to mean a Cleric who burns half its resources pretending to be a fighter, or an optimized Cleric? If the prior, your chances are actually probably better.

But to break this down:
The base clerics spell list is limited compared to some of the other big casters in three respects: it doesn't have a whole lot of mobility powers like tactical teleports or rearrangements, it doesn't have a whole lot of versatile battlefield control or mass-debuffs and it doesn't have a whole lot of action economy abusers. All of those can change very easily with domain choices, but if domains are random, it'll probably hold.

For all of those weaknesses, the way to exploit it is basically the same: gang up on the cleric. Hard. (But be sure to have a way around whatever the negation-button is for your attack of choice - be it Ironguard, Repulsion or whatever; and if it's pulling out the crazy tricks like Initiate of Mystra, good luck.)

[Mithril Leaf]

A proper clericzilla will have spellblade set to greater dispelling, normal dispelling, and disjunction on his defending armor spikes, defending shield spikes, and normal greatsword respectively. :smallbiggrin:

[Water_Bear]

Beating a Tier 1 caster in Theoretical Optimization revolves around being a better Tier 1 caster or getting the assistance of more powerful entities (i.e. Gods and higher level Tier 1 Casters).

Beating a Tier 1 caster in Practical Optimization revolves around doing your research, getting the element of surprise, and then rolling well until they die.

Either way, you need to;

Find out as much as you can about them without their knowledge.
This applies more for higher level Big Bads, but it's still helpful to have some idea of who exactly you are fighting and what their defenses will be.
Get access to ways to negate their magic.
This means Counterspelling, (Greater) Dispel Magic/MK's Disjunction, Dimensional Anchor/Lock, Anti-Magic Field/Ray, Grappling, Silence, anything which Blinds and/or Deafens, Paralysis effects, effects which drain or damage casting stats, Sundering Holy Symbols, and anything which kills them or knocks them unconscious.
Make sure you are protected from their magic.
This means having high ACs (especially Touch), Miss Chances, high Saving Throws, re-rolls, as many Immunities as you can get your hands on, Spell Resistance, high HP, and means to quickly negate harmful conditions (Iron Heart Surge, Restoration, Remove Enchantment).
Get the drop on them.
This means both getting a Surprise round and winning Initiative (many Clerics and Druids will be able to act in surprise rounds), as well as being smart enough and careful enough that none of the previous steps tip them off that you are coming.
Be good at fighting.
Even without their buffs, Clerics and Druids are solid combatants. All the defenses and preparation in the world won't help you if your head is a smear on the CoDzilla's Mace.

[TopCheese]

Idea from another thread...

Unarmed D2 Crusader (small sized?)

Mask the attack with a pat on the back

Don't stop beating the crap out of him until he dies and dies again... And again...

OR

Make yourself look like a kid (small humanoid race.. Should be easy) then run up and hug the Cleric... I guess you need one level of Monk for easy grapple unarmed attack...

Thus what other people see is a tiny little kid... Hug a cleric to death....

EDIT


Beating a Tier 1 caster in Theoretical Optimization revolves around being a better Tier 1 caster or getting the assistance of more powerful entities (i.e. Gods and higher level Tier 1 Casters).

Beating a Tier 1 caster in Practical Optimization revolves around doing your research, getting the element of surprise, and then rolling well until they die.

Either way, you need to;

Find out as much as you can about them without their knowledge.
This applies more for higher level Big Bads, but it's still helpful to have some idea of who exactly you are fighting and what their defenses will be.
Get access to ways to negate their magic.
This means Counterspelling, (Greater) Dispel Magic/MK's Disjunction, Dimensional Anchor/Lock, Anti-Magic Field/Ray, Grappling, Silence, anything which Blinds and/or Deafens, Paralysis effects, effects which drain or damage casting stats, Sundering Holy Symbols, and anything which kills them or knocks them unconscious.
Make sure you are protected from their magic.
This means having high ACs (especially Touch), Miss Chances, high Saving Throws, re-rolls, as many Immunities as you can get your hands on, Spell Resistance, high HP, and means to quickly negate harmful conditions (Iron Heart Surge, Restoration, Remove Enchantment).
Get the drop on them.
This means both getting a Surprise round and winning Initiative (many Clerics and Druids will be able to act in surprise rounds), as well as being smart enough and careful enough that none of the previous steps tip them off that you are coming.
Be good at fighting.
Even without their buffs, Clerics and Druids are solid combatants. All the defenses and preparation in the world won't help you if your head is a smear on the CoDzilla's Mace.


Sooo my idea uses... 4 and 5 :D now I need 1 through 3 but I guess with the right friends (coughBARDcough) number 1 is easy.

[Wings of Peace]

If it's a high level Codzilla you're eventually going to have to break out the 9ths. Short of Mage's Disjunction there isn't a lot that's going to get through an AMF working in conjunction with Golem Immunity and Dweomer of Transference.

[Anthrowhale]

Something along the lines of the AMF Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251901) (even a less optimized version) should be adequate for all but a Persistomancer Initiate of Mystra. High initiative + flight means the ability to close. AMF drops all buffs, then Thicket of Blades + Stand Still holds them that way indefinitely.

[Wings of Peace]

Something along the lines of the AMF Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251901) (even a less optimized version) should be adequate for all but a Persistomancer Initiate of Mystra. High initiative + flight means the ability to close. AMF drops all buffs, then Thicket of Blades + Stand Still holds them that way indefinitely.

Isn't one of the basic components of Codzilla that it's an Initiate of Mystra? Or am I just thinking of the Twice-the-Betrayer?

[Menteith]

Idea from another thread...

Unarmed D2 Crusader (small sized?)

Mask the attack with a pat on the back

Don't stop beating the crap out of him until he dies and dies again... And again...

OR

Make yourself look like a kid (small humanoid race.. Should be easy) then run up and hug the Cleric... I guess you need one level of Monk for easy grapple unarmed attack...

Thus what other people see is a tiny little kid... Hug a cleric to death...

Persisted Delay Death + Beastland Ferocity (or another source of damage immunity) is pretty much assumed on a Clericzilla. Freedom of Movement also goes without saying. A lot of this depends on the level of the Cleric, and how far they're willing to go. Is this a dude with full BAB, good damage ,and a decent assortment of persisted utility buffs/immunities, or is this an up to date Twice Betrayer (or another equally powerful build)?

[nedz]

Stick him in an AMF and send in the monk.

[Wings of Peace]

Stick him in an AMF and send in the monk.

A lot of people are suggesting an AMF. Not that Codzilla doesn't work without Initiate of Mystra but it seems kind of silly for a character whose entire strategy is their buffs to not take a feat that makes their buffs radically harder to negate.

[dextercorvia]

Dweomer of Transference.

Wow, they forget a "you" in one sentence and suddenly that is all kinds of broken.

The one downside of Initiate of Mystra is it doesn't protect your spells against another AMF once they are in effect. So, if you can get close to him with an AMF of your own, you can at least knock that tinfoil hat off of his smug head.

[Wings of Peace]

Wow, they forget a "you" in one sentence and suddenly that is all kinds of broken.

The one downside of Initiate of Mystra is it doesn't protect your spells against another AMF once they are in effect. So, if you can get close to him, you can at least knock that tinfoil hat off of his smug head.

Is IoM only for personal AMFs? That changes a bit then. I hadn't realized. And yeah. Dweomer of Transference is stupid ridiculous if you follow the RAW.

[dextercorvia]

Is IoM only for personal AMFs? That changes a bit then. I hadn't realized. And yeah. Dweomer of Transference is stupid ridiculous if you follow the RAW.

IoM only allows you to cast spells when you are in an AMF. It will not allow you to cast spells into one from outside, and it doesn't keep your spells from being suppressed if they enter one.

[Wings of Peace]

IoM only allows you to cast spells when you are in an AMF. It will not allow you to cast spells into one from outside, and it doesn't keep your spells from being suppressed if they enter one.

That makes me sad. I liked having a triad of anti-spell buffs better than a duo (Golem Immunity + Dweomer of Transference).

[Menteith]

Relevant text;

"You can attempt to cast spells even within a dead magic zone or an antimagic field. In a dead magic zone, you must make a successful caster level check against a DC equal to 20 + the level of the spell you are trying to cast. In an antimagic field, you must make a successful caster level check against a DC equal to 11 + the caster level of the antimagic field. If this check is successful, your spell functions normally."

What "functions normally" means can get weird under certain circumstances.

[TopCheese]

Persisted Delay Death + Beastland Ferocity (or another source of damage immunity) is pretty much assumed on a Clericzilla. Freedom of Movement also goes without saying. A lot of this depends on the level of the Cleric, and how far they're willing to go. Is this a dude with full BAB, good damage ,and a decent assortment of persisted utility buffs/immunities, or is this an up to date Twice Betrayer (or another equally powerful build)?

Hmm does time pass as a crusader is beating the stuffing out of a cleric? Like... Say the Crusader hits and then keeps rolling dmg. Does time pass as the crusader is squeezing/twisting the knife?

Ok so boots of dead magic (custom item from your wizard friend) and a very powerful hug?

[dextercorvia]

With respect to the zone you are in, your spell acts as though it isn't there. But, it provides no protection against future AMFs.

[Douglas]

I just had my party fight a clericzilla as a major boss battle. She might not have been a "proper" clericzilla because she depended on mass buffing a bunch of minions instead of buffing herself, but the core idea of fighter-type with a bajillion cleric buff spells was definitely there and was multiplied by there being 12 of them and her using mass buff spells and the occasional Reach+Chain metamagic for spells that didn't have mass versions.

My party dealt with it with dispelling. Lots and lots of dispelling. With boosted dispel checks. Dispelling Cord, Spellcaster's Bane, Tenacious Dispelling, and casting dispels at least 6 or 7 times, I think. This was Pathfinder (with 3.5 as extra splatbooks) and they weren't high enough level for Greater Dispel, so each dispel could only take out one buff at most, but it still worked. With great difficulty, granted, and they also piled on their own buffs before hand, but it did work - despite her being higher level, specially built for it, and with 3 minions per party member.

[Mithril Leaf]

I just had my party fight a clericzilla as a major boss battle. She might not have been a "proper" clericzilla because she depended on mass buffing a bunch of minions instead of buffing herself, but the core idea of fighter-type with a bajillion cleric buff spells was definitely there and was multiplied by there being 12 of them and her using mass buff spells and the occasional Reach+Chain metamagic for spells that didn't have mass versions.

My party dealt with it with dispelling. Lots and lots of dispelling. With boosted dispel checks. Dispelling Cord, Spellcaster's Bane, Tenacious Dispelling, and casting dispels at least 6 or 7 times, I think. This was Pathfinder (with 3.5 as extra splatbooks) and they weren't high enough level for Greater Dispel, so each dispel could only take out one buff at most, but it still worked. With great difficulty, granted, and they also piled on their own buffs before hand, but it did work - despite her being higher level, specially built for it, and with 3 minions per party member.

Silly clerics not having a good set of spellblades set for dispelling.

[Menteith]

Hmm does time pass as a crusader is beating the stuffing out of a cleric? Like... Say the Crusader hits and then keeps rolling dmg. Does time pass as the crusader is squeezing/twisting the knife?

Ok so boots of dead magic (custom item from your wizard friend) and a very powerful hug?

You do an infinitely large amount of damage to the Cleric. They will instantly die should the buffs expire, but the attack is still just a normal attack, it just hits infinitely hard. And if a 1d2 Crusader is being allowed, it's possible that a Cleric could just drown-heal back up to 0 after the fight (though there are other ways to negate it).

You'd need to specify what you mean by "boots of dead magic". Most magic items won't function within the Cleric's own Antimagic Field (since they're able to cast in one without any big issues with the Initiate of Mystra feat, many Persist AMF). On top of that, if custom magic item (ab)use is in play, the Cleric is just as free to come up with insanely powerful items too.

[demigodus]

Silly clerics not having a good set of spellblades set for dispelling.

And what do you do then if the clerics do have spellblades set for dispelling? Try to out-buff them? Walk over them with an anti-magic field? Dimensional Anchor + drop a mountain on them?

That or try to take out their weapons?

I realize you can't just make a single anti-clericzilla button, but I'm just wondering what the various tricks might be. I figure if there are enough such tricks, the clericzilla can't protect against all of them.

[Anthrowhale]

IoM only allows you to cast spells when you are in an AMF. It will not allow you to cast spells into one from outside, and it doesn't keep your spells from being suppressed if they enter one.

I'm not clear on this. If the IoM is inside of a personal AMF and casts a personal buff then a later AMF overlaps, it is explicitly stated as having no effect in the AMF description.

[LibraryOgre]

So... what does the cleric have to help him from being killed in his sleep? I mean, even with a lot of magical buffs and a good fort save, a coup de grace from an on-level rogue is going to be difficult to swing... especially if he has a good Sleight of Hand check ("Yeah, all your rings, bracelets, and necklaces were removed while you slept. You got a check, but with Spot being cross-class, and the -20 from being asleep, it was pretty easy for him.") Even if it doesn't outright kill you, he's probably going to beat you on initiative (damn dumping Dex for Wisdom... and I doubt they wasted a feat on a small init bonus as CoDzilla), and get another couple sneak attacks in while you're asleep.

Gods help you if there are two of them.

It comes back to Taltos's maxim... "No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades severely cramps his style."

[crazyhedgewizrd]

Use the spell evil weather from the book of vile darkness, Violet rain suppresses all divine magic in the area so no cleric spells or buffs, this spell does not care if you have the feat Initiate of Mystra you still cant cast divine spells.

The clericzilla is now no better than a npc expert.

[Mithril Leaf]

So... what does the cleric have to help him from being killed in his sleep? I mean, even with a lot of magical buffs and a good fort save, a coup de grace from an on-level rogue is going to be difficult to swing... especially if he has a good Sleight of Hand check ("Yeah, all your rings, bracelets, and necklaces were removed while you slept. You got a check, but with Spot being cross-class, and the -20 from being asleep, it was pretty easy for him.") Even if it doesn't outright kill you, he's probably going to beat you on initiative (damn dumping Dex for Wisdom... and I doubt they wasted a feat on a small init bonus as CoDzilla), and get another couple sneak attacks in while you're asleep.

Gods help you if there are two of them.

It comes back to Taltos's maxim... "No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades severely cramps his style."

Remind me why a cleric isn't sleeping on his diety's homeplane? It's a level 4 spell or something like that.

[Endarire]

Initiate of Mystra also functions in dead magic zones. Does violet rain count as one?

[Menteith]

So... what does the cleric have to help him from being killed in his sleep? I mean, even with a lot of magical buffs and a good fort save, a coup de grace from an on-level rogue is going to be difficult to swing... especially if he has a good Sleight of Hand check ("Yeah, all your rings, bracelets, and necklaces were removed while you slept. You got a check, but with Spot being cross-class, and the -20 from being asleep, it was pretty easy for him.") Even if it doesn't outright kill you, he's probably going to beat you on initiative (damn dumping Dex for Wisdom... and I doubt they wasted a feat on a small init bonus as CoDzilla), and get another couple sneak attacks in while you're asleep.

This all comes down to how optimized the Cleric is. Past low levels, the Cleric probably isn't sleeping in a vulnerable area (Wish can break into most places, but isn't an option if we're trying to avoid using 9ths). On top of that, I'd say a core component of Clericzilla is damage immunity (generally through Persisted Delay Death and Beastland Ferocity). If the Cleric's also sporting their own Antimagic Field (if they took Initiate of Mystra, it would make sense) which shuts down the easy options for removing their buffs.

Assuming that the Cleric needs sleep, the Rogue needs to first locate the Cleric's hideout/extraplanar space/god's realm/demiplane, successfully infiltrate it without alerting the Cleric, successfully remove buffs (through an Antimagic Field) which give the Cleric immunity to everything the Rogue can do (DD/BF, FoM, Favor of Ilmater, Sheltered Vitality, Stone Body, etc), avoid triggering any Crafted Contingent Spells (later versions of the Twice Betrayer make heavy use of CCS), and kill the Cleric before it can react. it's doable, but it's certainly not easy if it's a full blown Clericzilla. And it is way harder to do without having Wish (so you can actually get to them through stuff like Weirdstones), Disjuction (so you can actually remove the buffs, given their boosted CL), and Time Stop (to stop them from eating you while you're chipping away at their magic defenses).

[killianh]

IIRC IoM allows you to make a caster check to cast in a dead zone, but it would still suppress/cancel any persisted spells which is the whole point of the Codzilla. One could easily debuff/beat the CoDzilla to death while he tries to get all of his buffs back up.

My favourite tactic for this is to send a grappling gish in to bind the cleric in antimagic shackles, then teleport to a dead magic zone or pandemonium and let the area itself do the work. You might lose the gish, but if its built right it should be a more capable straight up-no-magic fighter than the cleric.

Maybe using Fighter 1/ Wizard 6/Spellsword 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Dragonslayer 1/Paragnostic Apostle 2?

[Menteith]

IIRC IoM allows you to make a caster check to cast in a dead zone, but it would still suppress/cancel any persisted spells which is the whole point of the Codzilla. One could easily debuff/beat the CoDzilla to death while he tries to get all of his buffs back up.

My favourite tactic for this is to send a grappling gish in to bind the cleric in antimagic shackles, then teleport to a dead magic zone or pandemonium and let the area itself do the work. You might lose the gish, but if its built right it should be a more capable straight up-no-magic fighter than the cleric.

Maybe using Fighter 1/ Wizard 6/Spellsword 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Dragonslayer 1/Paragnostic Apostle 2?

How are you getting a Grapple off against them? If you've already removed their array of buffs (like Freedom of Movement, Antilife Shell, Eladrin Form, Str boosters which make them better at Grappling than the Gish), you've pretty much won the battle already.

[Tvtyrant]

Best way I know of is to play a Necropolitan Tainted Scholar and simply boost your Disjunction's CL up to stupid levels, and strip off all of their protections. That wipes the AMF and their buffs, and their magic items.

[Menteith]

Best way I know of is to play a Necropolitan Tainted Scholar and simply boost your Disjunction's CL up to stupid levels, and strip off all of their protections. That wipes the AMF and their buffs, and their magic items.

This is the simplest way to get rid of them. A really paranoid Cleric can still get around this with Craft Contingent Spell, using it to dump out another AMF as soon as the first line of defense fails, and a third one after the second AMF falls, and so on. I'm still working on the assumption that the hypothetical Clericzilla is around the power level of the alpha stage Twice Betrayer (Cheater of Mystra, Bone Knight, Nightstick stacking with Occuler Spell/Reach Spell to Persist anything they want), rather than an insanely powered character with heavily nested reactions which passively obliterate everything (the higher end of Clericzilla) or a powerful Fighter with lots of immunities who hits stuff really hard(the low end of Clericzilla).

[killianh]

How are you getting a Grapple off against them? If you've already removed their array of buffs (like Freedom of Movement, Antilife Shell, Eladrin Form, Str boosters which make them better at Grappling than the Gish), you've pretty much won the battle already.

If you take it all off they could teleport, rebuff, and start over. If the Codzilla can hold you off or escape after the spells are down he'll be wise to what your method is and probably end up with an easy counter. Depending on which buffs are placed in which order it's not unfathomable that the Codzilla could get back to a high enough of a power level to take you down, hence going for the anti magic shackle grapple rather than just beat down and kill. Plus an AoE anti magic effect would effect you as well. At that point it comes down to strategy and luck.

[Mithril Leaf]

If you take it all off they could teleport, rebuff, and start over. If the Codzilla can hold you off or escape after the spells are down he'll be wise to what your method is and probably end up with an easy counter. Depending on which buffs are placed in which order it's not unfathomable that the Codzilla could get back to a high enough of a power level to take you down, hence going for the anti magic shackle grapple rather than just beat down and kill. Plus an AoE anti magic effect would effect you as well. At that point it comes down to strategy and luck.

If you can reach that point, a good strategy is being a warforged and coating yourself in poison. It's a solid way to take things out with having to use magic.

[Ernir]

Clericzilla? Spam Disjunction at it and hope the thing isn't a Dweomerkeeper or something.

Yeah, yeah, Disjunction ruins games and makes baby Paladins cry. So do unstoppable death machine Clerics stomping through Tokyo.

On that note...

A proper clericzilla will have spellblade set to greater dispelling, normal dispelling, and disjunction on his defending armor spikes, defending shield spikes, and normal greatsword respectively. :smallbiggrin:
Spellblades don't help against Disjunction. It's an area effect.

[dextercorvia]

I'm not clear on this. If the IoM is inside of a personal AMF and casts a personal buff then a later AMF overlaps, it is explicitly stated as having no effect in the AMF description.

Explicitly stated as having no effect on each other. Which means the new AMF supresses all of the carefully constructed buffs inside the other AMF. It doesn't take down the old AMF itself.

[Menteith]

If you take it all off they could teleport, rebuff, and start over. If the Codzilla can hold you off or escape after the spells are down he'll be wise to what your method is and probably end up with an easy counter. Depending on which buffs are placed in which order it's not unfathomable that the Codzilla could get back to a high enough of a power level to take you down, hence going for the anti magic shackle grapple rather than just beat down and kill. Plus an AoE anti magic effect would effect you as well. At that point it comes down to strategy and luck.

Your strategy still hinges on removing a significant amount of buffs from them before grappling. I'm saying that far and away the most significant obstacle in killing a high op Cleric is removing their buffs, not killing them after said fact. If you can get them "naked", then there are many ways to kill them (1d2 Crusader was mentioned as an easy way, but even something like an Uber-Charger can eat them if they're vulnerable). The problem is that you haven't suggested a good way to remove their buffs (which is the primary challenge).

"a grappling gish in to bind the cleric in antimagic shackles, then teleport to a dead magic zone or pandemonium and let the area itself do the work. You might lose the gish, but if its built right it should be a more capable straight up-no-magic fighter than the cleric."

This isn't going to work, because it is impossible to grapple a high op Cleric unless you've saturated them with Disjuctions (bear in mind that the CL for their buffs can be inflated through stuff like a Persisted Greater Consumptive Field). Since Disjunction only has a 1% chance/CL for dispelling their Antimagic Field, you either need to have CL100+ to reliable remove their initial barrier, or throw multiple Disjunctions at them, unless you feel comfortable taking them on when all their buffs are active inside their own AMF (which is possible if you're a character who has powerful [Ex] abilities...finding and throwing an Umbral Blot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/umbralBlot.htm) at them works if they haven't pumped their Fort/Reflex saves, and gets around a typical Persisted Buff array). How do you propose getting them into a state where you can bind them?

To the OP; a Sphere of Annihilation is a pretty solid way of dealing with Clericzillas. It's possible for them to pick up immunity to it as well, but it's a bit trickier to do, and anyone can use the artifact rather than forcing a specific build to counter them.

[Doc_Pippin]

Level 1 Chicken infested commoner with a spell component pouch. Crush clericzilla under 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Chickens as a free action

[Roguenewb]

My response was assuming actual sane gameplay by people who don't hate fun. Which means no nightstick stacking, no tons of CCS, no infinite taint spells per day, etcetera. Under this IQ higher than room temperature play-style, the best way to cleric-zilla is a couple of persisted excellent buffs which some long term (hrs/level) buffs and defenses, then you enter battle and hit like a freight train. My responses were valid in that scenario. In addition, any setting besides FR means the twice-betrayer is impossible. And, as the original post on the twice-betrayer said, the flavor makes no goddamn-sense and only a true butt-monkey DM would allow the TBoS.

Under a real game universe, my response was solid.

The true, pull-out-all-the-stops stuff, don't bother planning. That format is just Wizards, Clerics, Druids, Archivists, Erudites and Artificers. And their is no way to reliably control the outcome. That becomes so rocket-taggy that it might as well be a coin flip.

[Menteith]

Glad that you're here to tell people how to have fun. Sure, it's a very high power level, and what I find most fun is well below that stage, but choosing to play high-op doesn't mean that "your IQ is lower than room temperature." Though I would agree that it's not something appropriate for play in many games. As I stated a few times now, if the Cleric is being played as a super fighter (i.e., they hit stuff really good and have just the most powerful Persisted effects like damage immunity), they're infinitely easier to take down, as you only have to find a single weak point (negative levels, nonlethal damage, attribute drain, grappling, massive damage's Fort Save, mind affecting, stunning, paralyzing, so on) and throw enough of that weakness at the Cleric until they fall over. As the Cleric's power level goes up, they're going to eliminate more and more of these weaknesses, until they're immune to everything with buffs up. Even without CCS or NS Stacking (or Multiple Turning Pools, or a friendly Incandrix, or other means of gaining lots of Persist) Clerics are a powerful force, but when someone tells me they're looking to kill a Clericzilla, I think of the really high end stuff.