Reversing formulas that worked

[Cikomyr]

I can only imagine what was the conversion in the executive's boardroom when the producers pitched the idea for Columbo.


What do you mean, we learn who the murderer is in the first act?! Discovering who the killer is is the best part of any detective story, why would anybody watch a show it is revealed in the first act?!

Obviously, Columbo's story is a clear success of that formula, when done well. Where character interaction and comedy, and seeing this (apparently) dumb policeman piece together the puzzle until he turns around and arrest the bad guy.

We usually focus on the bad guy, how he gets nervous around Columbo, etc... And that made the entertainment value very high.


Can you think of other (relatively mainstream) movies and shows that picked up a certain formula and turned it around its head so successfully?

[Prime32]

Code Geass is essentially an inversion of the Gundam formula, where the protagonist is a Char Clone (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CharClone) and the antagonist runs around in a white robot trying to be a hero.

[snoopy13a]

In Jeopardy, they give you the answer and ask for the question.

[Cikomyr]

In Jeopardy, they give you the answer and ask for the question.

Ooooooooh good one!!!

I can only imagine the sell pitch... :smallbiggrin:

[Cespenar]

In Jeopardy, they give you the answer and ask for the question.

Technically. In practice, it's just the same thing with "What's-" in front.

[Kitten Champion]

Escape from the Planet of the Apes was a reversal of formula, at least of the original movie. It was probably the best written movie of the series, although after the first Planet of the Apes my tolerance greatly waned.

Avatar was the reversal of the alien invasion trope, though how subversive it is at this point is arguable.

Puella Magi Madoka Magica was a direct subversion of a number of formulas.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Men in Black features a shadowy, above-the-law conspiracy as its protagonists. Legitimately heroic, just mostly very deadpan.

[Brother Oni]

A bit off topic, but the game Dungeonkeeper was a good inversion of the typical fantasy 'good guys versus the bad guys', with you taking up the role of the evil overlord.
The various games that it has inspired (Dungeons and Overlord among others) also generally take up the 'bad guys' role.

Criminal Minds is a slight inversion, in that it emphasises with the antagonists (or at least explains their motivations) more than other police procedurals.

Dexter as an example of a role inversion, with the viewers rooting for a serial killer as the protagonist.

[Omergideon]

Hustle had several episodes where the police officer (often enough a good and upstanding officer) goes after the crew, and we are expected to root for our team of law breakers, thieves and ciminals over the law.

Not a new formula of course, but a pretty solid inversion of the standard police procedure show.

[DigoDragon]

One could interpret the tv series Firefly as an inversion of the "Rebels vs. the Empire" trope of overthrowing an oppresive government. In the series, the rebels (Brown Coats) lost the war and the empire (The Alliance) pretty much runs things their way.

Although another point I can mention is that The Alliance isn't evil as a whole. There are corrupt individuals within the government, but otherwise The Allience could also be an subversion of the usual "evil empire" style of space government.

[Traab]

Overlord let you play the bad guy if you wanted. You could make choices such as, after killing the "hero" who had stolen all the towns peoples food, you could either give it back to them, or keep it yourself to summon more minions. You could carve burn kill your way through a village if the mood took you, and various other good/evil choices could be made.

[Omergideon]

I bet the first pitch for The Sims would have sounded weird.

"So you are saying the whole game is........doing normal stuff? how does that even work!"

[Brother Oni]

I bet the first pitch for The Sims would have sounded weird.

"So you are saying the whole game is........doing normal stuff? how does that even work!"

The original pitch probably included some reference to Sim City: "It's Sim City with people instead".

The original Sim City pitch though: "So you're telling me you want to build a game based on civil engineering and city planning with details like water, power and waste management?"

[Dienekes]

One could interpret the tv series Firefly as an inversion of the "Rebels vs. the Empire" trope of overthrowing an oppresive government. In the series, the rebels (Brown Coats) lost the war and the empire (The Alliance) pretty much runs things their way.

Although another point I can mention is that The Alliance isn't evil as a whole. There are corrupt individuals within the government, but otherwise The Allience could also be an subversion of the usual "evil empire" style of space government.

I'd argue those points really. Now Firefly is great, but the Independents weren't rebels they were more akin to conquered kingdoms. So they're not really a reversal of the rebel formula. You could say that the lack of rebels is a reversal, but I don't think it's much of one.

And as to the Evil Empire, while supposedly the point was that there were only some evil within, let's be honest here. With one possible exception (and even then you could make a case against him) every member of the Alliance we actually see is arrogant, callous, murderous, or a torturer they were not presented in any positive light.

[Cespenar]

Watchmen, superhero formula.

[Nerd-o-rama]

What Firefly does in its backstory is take the basic conflict of the United States Civil War and reverses who was on which side of the main moral issue that wasn't "centralized vs. localized government", though it's not clear to me to what extent it was a civil war and to what extent it was a war of conquest. Then again, if you asked a Browncoat in-setting, you'd probably get a different answer on that than you would from someone from the core.

[Kitten Champion]

I'd argue those points really. Now Firefly is great, but the Independents weren't rebels they were more akin to conquered kingdoms. So they're not really a reversal of the rebel formula. You could say that the lack of rebels is a reversal, but I don't think it's much of one.

And as to the Evil Empire, while supposedly the point was that there were only some evil within, let's be honest here. With one possible exception (and even then you could make a case against him) every member of the Alliance we actually see is arrogant, callous, murderous, or a torturer they were not presented in any positive light.

I've always interpreted it as an inversion of the discourse surrounding the American Civil War.

I would disagree that the Alliance were viewed with complete antipathy, the irony of the train heist episode was based on this presumption by Mal and the Serenity crew. A number of times, while haughty and disdainful at first, some Alliance commanders were portrayed ultimately as reasonable authority figure in an uncomfortable situation -- like in the episode where the Serenity discovers a ghost ship that was attacked by Reavers.

Though I would agree that I don't think the show gave us a proper scope of what Whedon wanted to portray due to its limited run on television.

[McStabbington]

Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven is an almost perfect deconstruction of the Golden-Age Western.

[Killer Angel]

Staying on western, once there was the formula: heroic and good white men will struggle and win against savages and bad indians. Then there was Soldier Blue.

[Aedilred]

Reservoir Dogs was an interesting subversion of the normal narrative structure of a gangster movie at the time.

Buffy was a subversion of the horror genre, although possibly in too generic a sense to fit with the OP. "You know that blonde cheerleader who wanders down a dark alley at the start of a horror movie and gets eaten by gribblies? Let's do that, except we'll give her superpowers and she'll kick all the asses."

[Dienekes]

Well, it might be a bit of a stretch on one. But apparently half the pitch for Once Upon the Time in the West was "wouldn't it be cool to see Henry Fonda play a completely repulsive villain for once?"

[Gnoman]

You could say that the John Wayne film The Cowboys was an inversion of sorts. The classic cattle-drive story is about rugged individualists protecting the herd through the ravages of storms and the depredations of bandits, until they reach the shipping town and end the story with a wild party (or, at least, the implications of one.)

In The Cowboys, the titular crew is actually boys. An aging rancher, played by John Wayne, deprived of his workers by the Gold Rush, is forced to enlist the male half of the local grammar school for his cattle drive.

Not only are the youths not quite up to the job, but John Wayne is shot down without a fight by the bandits that steal the herd. The kids wind up breaking their guns out of the lockbox and stealing it back.

[McStabbington]

I've always interpreted it as an inversion of the discourse surrounding the American Civil War.

I would disagree that the Alliance were viewed with complete antipathy, the irony of the train heist episode was based on this presumption by Mal and the Serenity crew. A number of times, while haughty and disdainful at first, some Alliance commanders were portrayed ultimately as reasonable authority figure in an uncomfortable situation -- like in the episode where the Serenity discovers a ghost ship that was attacked by Reavers.

Though I would agree that I don't think the show gave us a proper scope of what Whedon wanted to portray due to its limited run on television.

Actually the Lost Cause mythology was always a fertile wellspring for main characters in Westerns, particularly anti-heroes. Just off the top of my head, Ethan Edwards from The Searchers and Josey Wales from The Outlaw Josey Wales were ex-confederates who spent no small amount of time continuing their war against the Union. It was a trope that Firefly played completely, and many would say disturbingly, straight.

[Psyren]

Legacy of Kain makes vampires the heroes of the setting.

Grand Theft Auto (and clones, like Saints Row) makes you a heroic criminal.

Prototype makes you heroic Cthulhu.

Assassin's Creed... you get the idea.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Actually the Lost Cause mythology was always a fertile wellspring for main characters in Westerns, particularly anti-heroes. Just off the top of my head, Ethan Edwards from The Searchers and Josey Wales from The Outlaw Josey Wales were ex-confederates who spent no small amount of time continuing their war against the Union. It was a trope that Firefly played completely, and many would say disturbingly, straight.

It's okay with me largely because it's a fictional setting, and they went ahead and just made the Confederate stand-ins the abolitionists and left everything else the same. Makes the result somewhat darker, but it leaves Mal's moral failings as personal foibles instead of something institutional like the support of slavery.

[Sith_Happens]

Pretty sure Memento reverses ALL the formulas.

[dps]

I can only imagine what was the conversion in the executive's boardroom when the producers pitched the idea for Columbo.



Obviously, Columbo's story is a clear success of that formula, when done well. Where character interaction and comedy, and seeing this (apparently) dumb policeman piece together the puzzle until he turns around and arrest the bad guy.

We usually focus on the bad guy, how he gets nervous around Columbo, etc... And that made the entertainment value very high.


Can you think of other (relatively mainstream) movies and shows that picked up a certain formula and turned it around its head so successfully?

I'm pretty sure that Columbo wasn't the first crime show to use the "howcatchem" formula instead of the "whodunit" formula. In fact, most TV cop shows have been "howcatchems".



Criminal Minds is a slight inversion, in that it emphasises with the antagonists (or at least explains their motivations) more than other police procedurals.

Law and Order: Criminal Intent arguably takes that even further (at least in the early seasons).

[Eldan]

Lucifer starts out with the title character creating a new Universe. It gets more complicated from there.

[Androgeus]

Mathematicians are good at reversing formulas.


I'll get my coat.

[Cikomyr]

Lucifer starts out with the title character creating a new Universe. It gets more complicated from there.

Isnt that the main plot of another bestseller: The Bible?

[Thinker]

Legacy of Kain makes vampires the heroes of the setting.

Grand Theft Auto (and clones, like Saints Row) makes you a heroic criminal.

Prototype makes you heroic Cthulhu.

Assassin's Creed... you get the idea.

I think you're confusing "heroic x" with protagonist.

[Eldan]

Isnt that the main plot of another bestseller: The Bible?

The reversal being that here, it's the devil who builds a second universe to get away from predestination.

[Psyren]

I think you're confusing "heroic x" with protagonist.

Nah - Kain, Altair/Ezio, and even Niko Bellic et al. are definitely protagonists. They may be a bit more on the anti-hero side, but in a macro-sense they're on the side of good.

Raziel is a bit more straightforward in his goodness/innocence than the rest of these.

[Thinker]

Nah - Kain, Altair/Ezio, and even Niko Bellic et al. are definitely protagonists. They may be a bit more on the anti-hero side, but in a macro-sense they're on the side of good.

Raziel is a bit more straightforward in his goodness/innocence than the rest of these.

Protagonist just means main character, not hero. A main character does not need to be heroic, nor even anti-heroic. That was my point.

[MLai]

I would say mafia movies (Godfather) and youth gang movies (The Warriors) did the "criminals as protagonists" schtick long before the games you listed. But in terms of games, yes I think GTA1 was the first to do it (on the NES).

[Brother Oni]

I would say mafia movies (Godfather) and youth gang movies (The Warriors) did the "criminals as protagonists" schtick long before the games you listed. But in terms of games, yes I think GTA1 was the first to do it (on the NES).

The first GTA game was for Windows, PS1 and GB Colour - I don't think it was ever ported to the NES (unless you're talking about a dodgy far east bootleg of some sort).

[Kitten Champion]

I would say mafia movies (Godfather) and youth gang movies (The Warriors) did the "criminals as protagonists" schtick long before the games you listed. But in terms of games, yes I think GTA1 was the first to do it (on the NES).

If you don't include games like Keystone Kapers (which was my favourite next to Q-bert on the Atari)

Along those lines, Rampage, I felt, was pretty awesome the first time I played through. The idea of becoming godzilla or king kong was novel when I was like.. 6.

Speaking of which, the fact that Samus Aran was actually female under all that armor was a monumental surprise for child-me.

[MLai]

Speaking of which, the fact that Samus Aran was actually female under all that armor was a monumental surprise for child-me.
Is Samus Aran the very first kickass female hero? I can't think of any earlier example.

When child-me used the code to play Unarmoured Samus, it didn't even register to me that that's Samus Aran. I just thought, "Oh cool, a secret code lets me switch Samus with an alternate character -- some skinny girl with green hair."

It's not my fault. First they show us Samus with brown hair. Then the code gives us Samus with green hair, so I thought it's a different person. And now she's blonde.

[Cikomyr]

Samus being a girl isn't a formula reversal, it's merely a reveal at the end of the game, with a first instance of "Action girl"

Formula reversal was if you played the metroids fighting the Samus-like bounty hunters

[Nerd-o-rama]

Is Samus Aran the very first kickass female hero? I can't think of any earlier example.

If you mean in video games, I do believe so. In general, not so much.

Other than historical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Bonny) and mythological (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atalanta) examples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_arc) of badass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomoe_Gozen) ladies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Maupin), all of the above above making it into popular culture (in spirit if not in name) by 1986, Alien came out in 1979, with the sequel coming out the same year as Metroid and giving Ripley her levels in badass. Also Princess Leia's early escapades in Star Wars, Eowyn (unlike Arwen, her part wasn't an invention of the film) from the Lord of the Rings novels, almost any women in any war movie featuring partisans from The Longest Day to Red Dawn...and that's just a random sample of the 20th century.

[Kitten Champion]

It's just that, all the other mediums' portrayals of kickass action women have been in my experience, undisguised in their sexual designation at least to the audience.

It's something you could only do in a video game and get such a astonishing reaction. Metroid used the assumptions I had about video games and action genre protagonists and had me under the unspoken rule that the sprite I've been spending days with was masculine. The androgynous sounding name and the concealing armour spoke nothing either way. The revealing moment not only shocked me, but in retrospect changed nothing about the character or her accomplishments.

Honestly, it may not be a formula reversal, but it subverted my expectations pretty hard.

[KillianHawkeye]

The original Sim City pitch though: "So you're telling me you want to build a game based on civil engineering and city planning with details like water, power and waste management?"

Except that the original Sim City didn't have water or waste management, just power and traffic.

[Omergideon]

Also taxes and the occasional alien invasion ot Godzilla attack.

[McStabbington]

It's just that, all the other mediums' portrayals of kickass action women have been in my experience, undisguised in their sexual designation at least to the audience.

It's something you could only do in a video game and get such a astonishing reaction. Metroid used the assumptions I had about video games and action genre protagonists and had me under the unspoken rule that the sprite I've been spending days with was masculine. The androgynous sounding name and the concealing armour spoke nothing either way. The revealing moment not only shocked me, but in retrospect changed nothing about the character or her accomplishments.

Honestly, it may not be a formula reversal, but it subverted my expectations pretty hard.

That's fair, although movies had already created the sub-genre of the butt-kicking, take-no-prisoners female protagonist, albeit confining it mostly to the realm of low-budget exploitation films. Cynthia Rothrock and Pam Grier vehicles jump readily to mind. Alien did the same thing with horror films, although that was the first A-budget film that I can remember doing so.

Moreover, I don't know that those were really formula reversals so much as straight applications of the formula of exploitation films, only with women instead of men in the lead. A reversal would be more something akin to the original blaxploitation films like Shaft or Sweet Sweetback's Badass Song, that made characters that once upon a time would be the antogonist of a law-abiding (white) male and made them the protagonist against a corrupt evil empire.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Supposedly, Star Wars' "the rebels are the good guys" was actually considered a reversal at the time, though I'm not sure it was an intentional one on the part of Lucas. Though in the earlier drafts the heroes are less rebels and more the military of a separate nation to the evil Empire.


Dexter as an example of a role inversion, with the viewers rooting for a serial killer as the protagonist.

Not really, since while he has to stay ahead of the cops, his main enemies are still the typical bad guys.




Puella Magi Madoka Magica was a direct subversion of a number of formulas.

It put twists and darker takes on a lot of stuff, but plays things a lot straighter than you'd think. Only reversal is that

the heroine never actually becomes a magical girl until the end

Time travel to avoid a future where everyone dies and heroes turning into monsters are pretty old tropes, nor alien to the magical girl genre. Madoka just portrayed them in a particularly dark manner.


Staying on western, once there was the formula: heroic and good white men will struggle and win against savages and bad indians.

Except any recent book about film genre will tell you that the western never really worked like that. Its just that the earliest studies of the genre used a terrible sample (a canon of less than 30 compared to the around 3500 films made in the sound era) and it took decades before anyone went back to primary sources so that incorrect study just got copied again and again.

[Gnoman]

Precisely. Just like the "cliche" sherrif in white hat shoots down bad-guys-in-black-hats two-at-a-time (which only really describes a couple of kiddie shows), the "wicked injun" category was a vast minority.

[Killer Angel]

Except any recent book about film genre will tell you that the western never really worked like that. Its just that the earliest studies of the genre used a terrible sample (a canon of less than 30 compared to the around 3500 films made in the sound era) and it took decades before anyone went back to primary sources so that incorrect study just got copied again and again.

AFAIK, only in the late '60, western films began to question the style of the traditional Western (this includes many things, from favoring realism over romanticism and a more-sympathetic portrayal of Native Americans).
I'm not saying you're wrong, but do you have some title of said books? I would like to expand my knowledge on the matter.

[CheesePirate]

In Nemesis the Warlock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemesis_the_Warlock) (1980->), humans are the bad guys and aliens are the good guys.

[Psyren]

Protagonist just means main character, not hero. A main character does not need to be heroic, nor even anti-heroic. That was my point.

So? They're still reversals. When did we have a vampire protagonist in a video game before LoK?

[Terraoblivion]

So? They're still reversals. When did we have a vampire protagonist in a video game before LoK?

Kid Dracula (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kid_Dracula)?

[Psyren]

Kid Dracula (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kid_Dracula)?

He's a vampire the same way that mario is a plumber - technically true, not really relevant to gameplay.

[Thinker]

So? They're still reversals. When did we have a vampire protagonist in a video game before LoK?

The Twisted Tales of Spike McFang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twisted_Tales_of_Spike_McFang)

[Psyren]

The Twisted Tales of Spike McFang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twisted_Tales_of_Spike_McFang)

As with the other "example", you could make that character a magician or robot without changing the game in any meaningful way. LoK is the first to have vampirisim be an actual game mechanic and plot point, thus it stands.

[Kitten Champion]

Well, there's this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodnet). I kind of like the idea of saving the world from Van Helsing.

[Raimun]

Metal Gear (Solid).

1. The first Metal Gear was the first stealth action game. People in Konami were really sceptical if a game where you are hiding from the enemy would be that exciting.

2. Metal Gear Solid was pretty much the first cinematic game. The game wasn't just a reflex exercise but also told a story with complex characters, character development, drama, humor, clear themes and those little details that spice up things. In other words, the story was actually one of the main selling points, instead of being merely an excuse plot.

[Raimun]

Oh, and Monty Python.

It was the tv-show that realized nothing has to make sense. Including the plot, characters or even logic.

[MLai]

So? They're still reversals. When did we have a vampire protagonist in a video game before LoK?
Legacy of Kain: Nov 1996

Castlevania III: Sept 1990 (NA)
Symphony Of The Night: Mar 1997 (JPN)

Alucard was 1 of 4 playable protagonists in Castlevania III. I listed SotN even though it appeared after LoK, just to show the close publishing dates in order to preempt any thoughts of LoK inspiring SotN.

[Knaight]

Supposedly, Star Wars' "the rebels are the good guys" was actually considered a reversal at the time, though I'm not sure it was an intentional one on the part of Lucas. Though in the earlier drafts the heroes are less rebels and more the military of a separate nation to the evil Empire.

If this is true, we've seen a full reversal. At this point, a space opera where the rebellion is genuinely bad and the centralized authority the good guys would be a major reversal.

[Wardog]

Supposedly, Star Wars' "the rebels are the good guys" was actually considered a reversal at the time, though I'm not sure it was an intentional one on the part of Lucas.

Really?

"Heroic Rebels vs Evil Regiem" has been a major trope since... forever.

And plenty of old swashbucklers and space operas used it (Robin Hood, Zorro, Flash Gordon, etc).

[Thinker]

As with the other "example", you could make that character a magician or robot without changing the game in any meaningful way. LoK is the first to have vampirisim be an actual game mechanic and plot point, thus it stands.

It seems like you're really reaching. Legacy of Kain is basically just traditional antagonist turned into a protagonist. That sort of formula has been around for millennia. Even vampires specifically appearing as protagonists has appeared for quite a while before LoK got a hold of it. If you're going to disregard every example that runs counter to that, there is nothing left to discuss.

[MLai]

Really?
"Heroic Rebels vs Evil Regime" has been a major trope since... forever.
And plenty of old swashbucklers and space operas used it (Robin Hood, Zorro, Flash Gordon, etc).
Yes it definitely would have been a fashionable concept palatable for the masses, considering the nature of the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the Chinese revolution, etc.
The current world we live in is a direct result of the fall of the old "evil" monarchy system that was the basis of the entire world.

[dps]

AFAIK, only in the late '60, western films began to question the style of the traditional Western (this includes many things, from favoring realism over romanticism and a more-sympathetic portrayal of Native Americans).
I'm not saying you're wrong, but do you have some title of said books? I would like to expand my knowledge on the matter.

Then forget about books--go back to the source material. I would suggest starting with the Westerns Jimmy Stewart made with Anthony Mann in the 50s.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Really?

According to cast interviews, the idea of rebels as good guys seemed odd to them at the time.

It doesn't make any sense to me either but that's what they say.


AFAIK, only in the late '60, western films began to question the style of the traditional Western (this includes many things, from favoring realism over romanticism and a more-sympathetic portrayal of Native Americans).

That's a frequently parroted dogma. But its dogma, not 'fact'.


I'm not saying you're wrong, but do you have some title of said books? I would like to expand my knowledge on the matter.

Film Genre: Hollywood and Beyond by Barry Langford was recommended as a text book by my university and has stuff about this.


Then forget about books--go back to the source material. I would suggest starting with the Westerns Jimmy Stewart made with Anthony Mann in the 50s.

1950s westerns are comparatively recent. There was two decades of silent westerns and another two of sound westerns before then.

All the 'big name' westerns are what was already used to create an incorrect doctrine about how the western genre worked. To truly go back to the source material you have to watch the numerous b-movie westerns produced in the 50s and before, which aren't too easy to get hold of. B-movie westerns were lower budget, but tended to have more varied subject matter due (ironically) to their less wide spread appeal. A-movie westerns also tended to incorporate elements of other genres to widen their appeal, and yet were used as the yard stick for the genre by film scholars (see the problem?)

[Killer Angel]

That's a frequently parroted dogma. But its dogma, not 'fact'.



Well, there are films that fueled this impression, but I suppose this is the kind of stuff that common misconceptions are made of.
Thanks (also to dps) for the clarifications.

[CheesePirate]

Tucker and Dale vs Evil (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1465522/)


Two lovable West Virginian hillbillies are headed to their "fixer-upper" vacation cabin to drink some beer, do some fishin', and have a good time. But when they run into a group of preppy college kids who assume from their looks that they must be in-bred, chainsaw wielding killers, Tucker & Dale's vacation takes a bloody & hilarious turn for the worse.

[Scowling Dragon]

Tucker and Dale vs Evil (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1465522/)

Probably one of the best examples of this.

[Crow]

Does The Shield (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286486/) count? I never felt like I was watching bad guys with good motivations, so much as I was watching dirtbags who occasionally did the right thing to further their own dirtbag agendas.

[Sith_Happens]

Here's one I just thought of:
Inception makes "it was all a dream" the premise instead of the twist ending.
Then it goes ahead and makes it the twist ending to. Maybe.