Ultimate Magus CharOp Help!

[Glorystain]

I am working on a character for a 3.5 game and I want some help optimizing him. I haven't played 3.5 for a while and I forget all the awesome feats and stuff to do, and I haven't ever played a pure caster in the system before so I'm not sure what's good and what's junk.

Currently I am planning a Gnome Illusionist 3/Beguiler 2/ Ultimate Magus 10 / ?
Prohibited schools are Conjuration and Necromancy (despite his prodigious capacity for spellcasting, he could never quite get the hang of actually making things -- it pains me to give up Conjuration but it's part of his character)

Starting at level 12 (so Illusionist 3/Beguiler 2/ Ultimate Magus 7)

I think the biggest thing I need help with is picking feats. I have 5 generic feats plus a bonus Metamagic feat granted from UM to choose. All books are available.

The only one I know for sure is Spellcasting Prodigy and probably Extend Spell. Practiced Caster is also on my short list, and I've even considered taking it twice. I also really like the spellcasting feats from Complete Mage (cloudy conjuration and fearsome necromancy), but the Illusion version is garbage. I'm gonna talk with the DM about doing a custom one.

I am really looking for anything to boost illusion or enchantment specifically, or spellcasting in general.

Also out of curiosity, are there any other spontaneous/prepared arcane caster prestige classes to round out the last 5 levels, or am I gonna have to pick a class to maximize beyond that point?

[Snowbluff]

Pshhw. Elemental Theurgy and Theurgic Specialist. Dip a level in cleric or something else to get an elemental domain. Obtain CL bonuses. Win.

Practices spell cast should go towards Bequiler, so UM level the more useful wizard.

Take Versatile Spellcaster. Just do it.

[Glorystain]

Pshhw. Elemental Theurgy and Theurgic Specialist. Dip a level in cleric or something else to get an elemental domain. Obtain CL bonuses. Win.

Practices spell cast should go towards Bequiler, so UM level the more useful wizard.

Take Versatile Spellcaster. Just do it.

Where can I find all that?

[Snowbluff]

Elemental Theurgy is in Dragon Comp and Dragon #325. I suggest comboing with Snowcasting and Energy Substitution.

Theurgic Specialist if from Dragon #325. I would not suggest beign an illusionist unless you are doing something VERY specific, as your spells lists are now ridiculously redundant.

Versatile Spellcaster is in Races of Dragon. Lest you subsume 2 spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher. (Hint: You have two classes of slots, a book full of spells know, and you automatically know ALL bequiler spells). Can be used for easy entry (Read: less beguiler heavy) into UM. Preserve your 9th level spells!

[Glorystain]

Theurgic Specialist if from Dragon #325. I would not suggest beign an illusionist unless you are doing something VERY specific, as your spells lists are now ridiculously redundant.


Eh, more flavor than anything else. Not doing anything specific with it, but since all it does is grant an extra spell slot I figured I will have use for at least 1 illusion spell at every level and I can use the rest of my slots for whatever I want. That said, I am certainly open to suggestions if you think there's a better option.



Versatile Spellcaster is in Races of Dragon. Lest you subsume 2 spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher. (Hint: You have two classes of slots, a book full of spells know, and you automatically know ALL bequiler spells). Can be used for easy entry (Read: less beguiler heavy) into UM. Preserve your 9th level spells!

This is pure win. Thank you for the suggestion.

[Snowbluff]

Eh, more flavor than anything else. Not doing anything specific with it, but since all it does is grant an extra spell slot I figured I will have use for at least 1 illusion spell at every level and I can use the rest of my slots for whatever I want. That said, I am certainly open to suggestions if you think there's a better option.



This is pure win. Thank you for the suggestion.

Well, it does have it's advantages. Theurgic Specialist Illusionist or Enchanter would let your Bequiler spells benefit (IIRC, it affects ALL of your Illusion or Enchantment, combinig your Beguiler or Wizard CL for spells of the chosen school), but transmutation or abjuration might be better. You could make some beastly simulacra or other (shadow) spells if you go into Shadowcraft Mage or the like.

YW :smallbiggrin:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Generally with an Ultimate Magus, you want to put as much spellcasting toward your stronger class (Wizard in this case) as possible. At UM 1, 4, and 7, you increase whichever class has the lower caster level, or your choice if it's a tie. Starting out Beguiler 2/ Wizard 3/ UM, if you get Practiced Spellcaster: Beguiler before 6th your Wizard casting will be increased at every level of UM. Starting out Beguiler 1/ Wizard 4/ UM, with Practiced Spellcaster Beguiler, you can put all but UM 7 toward Wizard. If you get some other way of increasing your caster level, such as with an Illumian (RoD) with the Krau sigil, you can actually start Beguiler 1/ Wizard 4/ UM and put all ten UM toward Wizard.

Definitely take Beguiler at your first character level for the increased skill points. If you use Human (or any race with the Human subtype, such as Illumian) you can even take Able Learner (RoD) and keep the Beguiler class skill list for every level you take.

Beguiler/Illusionist is extremely redundant. Pick one or the other, and check out the various Killer Gnome (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=killer+gnome&oq=killer+gnome&gs_l=hp.3..0l4.696.2200.0.2312.12.9.0.3.3.2.368.15 63.2j4j2j1.9.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.KOdeYPOAXRo&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=324cbb6aa9d150f5&biw=1920&bih=957) and Shadowcraft Mage (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&sclient=psy-ab&q=shadowcraft+mage+handbook&oq=shadowcraft+mage+handbook&gs_l=hp.3..0j0i30j0i5j0i5i30.15198.19492.1.19684.2 9.24.2.2.2.3.723.4853.2j7j11j1j6-1.22.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.vZK3l7aTv6g&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=324cbb6aa9d150f5&biw=1920&bih=957) guides. You'll be much better off skipping Ultimate Magus completely and sticking to just one spellcasting progression.

Elemental Theurgy and Theurgic Specialist are unnecessary shenanigans that don't even have any synergy with the build. If you want anything like that, take a level in Spellthief and take the feat Master Spellthief in Complete Scoundrel instead. Versatile Spellcaster is still a great suggestion, and it's one of the staples that makes Ultimate Magus really worth using.

[Keld Denar]

The better entry is Beguiler1/Wiz4/UMX. Less Wizard loss. Due to the wording in UM being based on caster level, not Spellcaster level, take Practiced Spellcaster with your Beget side at level 1 or 3. Thus will allow you to progress 9/10 levels on your Wizard side. The 10th level requires you to be an Illumian for your race, which may not be favorable for your character concept.

For feats, I like Quicken Spell, Sculpt Spell, and Split Ray. Cloudy Conjuration is also very sexy, if you are a Conjurer. Versatile Spellcaster, as mentioned, its also very nice. On top of those, the old standbys of Imp Initiative, Quick Recovery, and Arcane Mastery are fun.

[Glorystain]

The better entry is Beguiler1/Wiz4/UMX. Less Wizard loss. Due to the wording in UM being based on caster level, not Spellcaster level, take Practiced Spellcaster with your Beget side at level 1 or 3. Thus will allow you to progress 9/10 levels on your Wizard side. The 10th level requires you to be an Illumian for your race, which may not be favorable for your character concept.

But if I go Beg 2 I get 10/10 wizard levels from UM anyway with the added bonus of Cloaked Casting. I think it works out better in the long run, though I may be overvaluing +1 DC.

I think I'm gonna stick to Beg 2/Wiz3. Excellent points from Biffoniacus_Furiou.

I have to take Spellcasting Prodigy at level 1, which leaves Practiced Caster (Beguiler) at level 3, and Versatile Spellcasting at level 6.

What about Easy Metamagic (Heighten Spell)? Sacrifice a 1st level spell slot to heighten a spell 2 levels sounds pretty snazzy, especially for the DC boost on illusion and enchantment spells. Does that even work?

[Psyren]

Cloaked Casting isn't worth much to me; however, Beg 2 does mean that you can put all 10 points of UM towards Wizard without being an Illumian. So there's that.

I don't have much more to add except to check out the Sleight of Hand rule in Races of Stone. This allows you to hide the verbal and somatic components of your spellcasting if any onlookers don't succeed at a Spot check. For a Beguiler this is invaluable given the kinds of spells you'll likely be focusing on.

[gorfnab]

Ultimate Magus Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4039.0)

One build I like for Ultimate Magus is: Wizard 5 (Spontaneous Divination ACF, CC)/ Knight of the Weave 1/ Ultimate Magus 10/ Incantatrix 4

[Medic!]

If you can take two flaws, you could basically triple your spellcasting prodigy bonus with 2 feats from Ghostwalk (can't remember the names of the feats atm but they specifically stack). Both have to be taken at 1st level as well, and each one acts exactly like spellcasting prodigy.

[Keld Denar]

But if I go Beg 2 I get 10/10 wizard levels from UM anyway with the added bonus of Cloaked Casting. I think it works out better in the long run, though I may be overvaluing +1 DC.

I think I'm gonna stick to Beg 2/Wiz3. Excellent points from Biffoniacus_Furiou.


Lets look at various points in progression:

ECL 5, 1 level before entry.
Beg2/Wiz3 has a couple extra 1st level spells, but less 2nd.
Beg1/Wiz4 has more 2nd level spells.

ECL6, UM1
Beg2/Wiz4
Beg1/Wiz5 just got 3rd level spells

ECL7, UM2
Beg3/Wiz5
Beg2/Wiz6

ECL8, UM3
Beg4/Wiz6 Beguiler just got 2nd level spells for Augmented Casting +2 Metamagics
Beg3/Wiz7 4th level spells!

ECL9, UM4
Beg4/Wiz7
Beg3/Wiz8

ECL10, UM5
Beg5/Wiz8
Beg4/Wiz9 5th level spells

ECL11, UM6
Beg6/Wiz9 just got 3rd level Beguiler spells for +3 Metamagic
Beg5/Wiz10

ECL12, UM7 (you)
Beg6/Wiz10
Beg6/Wiz10 same

ECL13, UM8
Beg7/Wiz11
Beg7/Wiz11 same

ECL 15 is the same as well.
Beg9/Wiz13
Beg9/Wiz13

ECL 16, UM10, then continuing to progress Wizard
Beg9/Wiz14
Beg9/Wiz14 bonus feat, assuming actual wizard level taken

etc

So depending on how you build, it could either not make a difference, or it could make a difference. If you want to snag that tasty bonus feat (or bonus feat ACF, such as Spontaneous Divination), then Beg1/Wiz4 is a better entry. If you plan on popping straight into another fullcasting PrC (like 4 levels of Fatespinner, or some Archmage, or whatever), then Beguiler2/Wiz3 might be slightly better with the extra HP and skill points. So basically its a trade of a bonus feat vs a couple hp and skill points at your point in the build.

Cloaked Casting, however, is a crappy ability. You won't use it, especially not at ECL12 where you are. Feinting requires you to be in melee, the one place where you especially DON'T WANT TO BE.

[Psyren]

Cloaked Casting, however, is a crappy ability. You won't use it, especially not at ECL12 where you are. Feinting requires you to be in melee, the one place where you especially DON'T WANT TO BE.

Actually you're mistaken - the feinty one is Surprise Casting. Cloaked Casting is a passive bonus vs. Dex Denied opponents.

[Glorystain]

Actually you're mistaken - the feinty one is Surprise Casting. Cloaked Casting is a passive bonus vs. Dex Denied opponents.

^that.

I figure its on par with a feat. +1 DC for spells cast against anyone denied their dex. Casting spells from Greater Invisibility or while hidden works. I also have it in mind to use illusions and other tricks to keep this active.