WIzards and spells per level

[Ordrath]

I was wondering if there is any clerification on this, a wizard learns 2 new spells at every level. My question is can you hold onto the speels you know and use them on the next level up?

As in at level 2, not learn any new spells, so at level 3 you can learn 4 spells?

[eggs]

I was wondering if there is any clerification on this, a wizard learns 2 new spells at every level. My question is can you hold onto the speels you know and use them on the next level up?

As in at level 2, not learn any new spells, so at level 3 you can learn 4 spells?
No. You only get what the ability says: "two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast."

EDIT: But you could throw GP, the Elven Generalist racial sub level or the Collegiate wizard feat at the problem, if you just want more spells of a certain level.

[Eldonauran]

I was wondering if there is any clerification on this, a wizard learns 2 new spells at every level. My question is can you hold onto the spells you know and use them on the next level up?

As in at level 2, not learn any new spells, so at level 3 you can learn 4 spells?

Not sure why you would do that, since a wizard can add spells to his spellbook at any time. He doesn't have a max number of spells known.

As for your answer, I don't think you can. As will skill points, you have to gain them and use them as part of leveling up.

[Roguenewb]

You may not do this. Remember, if the rules dont say you can, then you can't.

[Telonius]

Typically the spells come at your level-up. RAW, there's no provision for saving up spells to write down later. In some cases this might make sense as a houserule - for example, if your book gets stolen and you level up before you get it back. However, if I were making that ruling, you would only be able to add spells at the level you'd ordinarily have gotten them. So in the situation you described, at level three you'd get two spells of level 1 or lower and two spells of level 2 or lower - not four level-2 spells.

[Psyren]

No, you cannot choose to delay this. New spells, if any, are step 8 (see Level Advancement, PHB 59) of the leveling up process for a spellcasting class. Furthermore, the Wizard entry makes it clear that you are limited to spell levels you have actually attained when adding these new spells ("Spellbooks," PHB 57.)

[Slipperychicken]

Not sure why you would do that

He would be trying to use all his "free" spells known on later-level spells to save money on scribing. It would be smart on a Wizard starting at high level if it worked. It does not work; your free spells appear immediately when you level. I would allow a Wizard lacking a spellbook to delay it until he got his spellbook back, though.

[Dusk Eclipse]

AFAIK there is nothing preventing you to scribe spells of higher level into your spellbook, it just mean you "wasted" your freebie spells for a few levels.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[dextercorvia]

AFAIK there is nothing preventing you to scribe spells of higher level into your spellbook, it just mean you "wasted" your freebie spells for a few levels.

Correct me if I am wrong.

You may only add spells which you are a capable of casting.


At each new wizard level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook.

[Dusk Eclipse]

You may only add spells which you are a capable of casting.

huh... how did I miss that?:smallredface:

[Ordrath]

Thanks a ton for the help. Was 99% sure it wasn't able, but with so many supplements can never be 100% :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

Thanks a ton for the help. Was 99% sure it wasn't able, but with so many supplements can never be 100% :smalltongue:

You don't have the PHB? :smallwink:

[Slipperychicken]

You don't have the PHB? :smallwink:

Who doesn't ban PHB? It has the most broken spells (Shapechange, Polymorph, Gate) and classes (Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Monk, Fighter) in the game.

[Dusk Eclipse]

You don't have the PHB? :smallwink:

When I first started playing D&D I spent at least 3 months without any book of my own, so yeah it is possible (for the record I used the SRD, thanks the gods I found it before I saw the D&D wiki for the first time)

[Slipperychicken]

When I first started playing D&D I spent at least 3 months without any book of my own, so yeah it is possible (for the record I used the SRD, thanks the gods I found it before I saw the D&D wiki for the first time)

Why anyone uses material from that site... It's like dumpster-diving for meals when there's a soup kitchen down the block that gives you good, clean food for free.

Oh the horrors on that site.. When I was new, I thought it was RAW for a few minutes until my brother showed me the truth.

[Ordrath]

You don't have the PHB? :smallwink:

I do have the handbook and nearly all the suppliment books from 3.0 and 3.5, just wasn't sure if another source stated if you could or not. Vecna knows how many times past books aren't concidered when making a suppliment.

And Personally Ban PHB, to OP for my campaigns, usual have my players use ToB or ToM, you know, the balanced books :tongue:

[Wonton]

Not sure why you would do that, since a wizard can add spells to his spellbook at any time. He doesn't have a max number of spells known.

I dunno about your campaign, but in mine the wizards don't have infinite money and time and instant access to a high-level mage's guild where they can copy as many spells as they want. IMO the whole "wizards know an infinite number of spells!" thing is totally blown out of proportion. No, they don't. :smallannoyed: They only know as many as they're willing to pay for and have the time to spend scribing.

[Eldan]

Well, there are spells in mid-level that can quite literally made money. And scrolls shouldn't be too hard to buy, really, going by the DMG guidelines for how much money in magic items there is around in larger towns. In an emergency, you can just bind some efreet or spellcasting outsiders and just wish for scrolls from them.

[hoverfrog]

The first thing a PC wizard does when meeting another PC wizard is swap spells. Even NPC wizards are usually willing to exchange scrolls at a fairly good rate. If you're after second level spell scrolls then find a wizard who is willing to swap and you'll have those extra second level spells. Bards and sorcerers have spells too and they are often just as willing to swap spells as wizards are though less likely to have scrolls as they don't gain the automatic scribe scroll feat.

Speak to the DM about getting contacts with local wizards or form your own mage's guild with cost of entry being one arcane spell not known to the guild.

If you find a wizard who is willing to share spells then find out what he wants for the level you are going up in and take them for your free spells. That way you'll have spells to swap that you know he doesn't have.

Another point is that these free spells are supposed to represent time spend between adventuring doing spell research. There is no reason except for RAW that you cannot say to your DM that you wish to spend a month of game time engaged in spell research so as to add extra spells to your list. The DM is free to set costs and time scales for this but probably shouldn't refuse you outright.

Does anyone know of rules for spell research other than the epic spell rules?

[Alleran]

Who doesn't ban PHB? It has the most broken spells (Shapechange, Polymorph, Gate) and classes (Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Monk, Fighter) in the game.
I... I can't argue against this.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Why anyone uses material from that site... It's like dumpster-diving for meals when there's a soup kitchen down the block that gives you good, clean food for free.

Oh the horrors on that site.. When I was new, I thought it was RAW for a few minutes until my brother showed me the truth.

Because when you are new and google d&d x it is quite likely that your first google hit will be the wiki and they are ussually quite useful.

[Gnorman]

Who doesn't ban PHB? It has the most broken spells (Shapechange, Polymorph, Gate) and classes (Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Monk, Fighter) in the game.

Most of this isn't actually sarcastic.

[Palanan]

This is actually something I was about to start a thread on, although I would've been a little embarrassed. :smallredface:

I've mainly played divine casters, so the Theory and Practice of Wizard Spells isn't quite instinctive for me. Assuming access to an arcane community (the temple of Mystra in Waterdeep, for instance), is study time pretty much the only obstacle in adding new spells? Or is there a point at which the cost of writing spells into a spellbook consumes every last copper?

[Psyren]

I've mainly played divine casters, so the Theory and Practice of Wizard Spells isn't quite instinctive for me. Assuming access to an arcane community (the temple of Mystra in Waterdeep, for instance), is study time pretty much the only obstacle in adding new spells? Or is there a point at which the cost of writing spells into a spellbook consumes every last copper?

That of course depends on how many coppers you have.

[Killer Angel]

That of course depends on how many coppers you have.

Can the Wizard summon alot of copper? :smalltongue:

[Palanan]

What I meant is whether WBL sets a limit on the number of spells that can be written into a spellbook, or whether that cost is comparatively negligible. I've never managed an arcane spellbook much past second level, so I really don't know.
.
.

[eggs]

It's pretty strict at lower levels (at ECL 4, after a headband of Int, you're looking at a maximum of 10 9 spell levels learned), but with things like Collegiate Wizard/Elven Generalist/Geometer or eventually boccob's blessed book (or just by gaining levels), it becomes less bad.

[Palanan]

Okay, thanks, that's what I was trying to get at.

Has anyone worked out a matrix of how many spells would be possible for WBL by each level, as adjusted by Collegiate Wizard, Geometer and the other factors you mention?

[Slipperychicken]

Okay, thanks, that's what I was trying to get at.

Has anyone worked out a matrix of how many spells would be possible for WBL by each level, as adjusted by Collegiate Wizard, Geometer and the other factors you mention?

All of them. 3-4 Boccob's Blessed Books (I don't know how many Sorc/Wiz spells are in 3.5, a few thousand I think), Geometer (1 page per spell, 1,000 pages per book -> 1,000 spells per book). Each Blessed Book is 12,500gp, so it's 37,500-50,000. Then you add the cost to let Wizards lend their books to you, which is 50x spell level ("in most cases". If guild membership gets you that for free or near-free, the additional cost is negligible). For 1st level spells, it's often cheaper to learn them from scrolls (25gp or 12.5gp instead of 50gp). If you make the books yourself, obviously their gold cost is halved.

Take Alacritous Cogitation and Uncanny Forethought, and start rejoicing in success because you are now Schrodinger's Wizard.

[Palanan]

Huh. How 'bout that.



Well, it gives me a place to start.

:smalltongue:

[Slipperychicken]

Huh. How 'bout that.



Well, it gives me a place to start.

:smalltongue:

You also have the truly soul-crushing task of determining exactly how many Sorc/Wiz spells there are in 3.5, to see how many our hypothetical Wizard needs. Good luck :smallcool:


EDIT: Oh! and one more thing. It's dangerous to go alone, take this (http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/index.php). (It already contains nearly every spell in the game, so I suppose you'd just search under spells that appear on the Sorc/Wiz list. Good Wizards can also prepare and cast Sanctified spells from BoED)

[Palanan]

Yeah, I might start small. :smalltongue:

So, Geometer. It looks and sounds great, although the spellbook benefits wouldn't kick in until the character is eighth level. Even so, it doesn't seem to come up in builds all that often.

Just glancing at it, I'd think a couple levels of Geometer could be useful for a beguiler/wizard Ultimate Magus. And yet, no one seems to use it.

[Psyren]

Just glancing at it, I'd think a couple levels of Geometer could be useful for a beguiler/wizard Ultimate Magus. And yet, no one seems to use it.

Most wizard builds end at 15, with the expectation being that you'll fill in the other levels yourself. Geometer isn't mentioned much because it's not the kind of class you really build around, at least not in the same way you'd build around Ultimate Magus or Iot7FV.

Geometer is more of a filler class - it gives nice stuff, but is mostly used as a way of continuing caster progression while also getting (decent) class features. Similar PrCs are Archmage, Paragnostic Apostle, Fatespinner, and Ruathar. You don't build around classes like that, so much as you plug them into an existing build.