Quick and Dirty Fix Opinion

[Roguenewb]

So, I have a player who wants to play meatshield tank in an upcoming game, unfortunately he hates ToB, and the rest of the party is a Factotum, Wizard and Cleric. In order to let him play the same game, I was just going to give Paladin all of Knight's and Marshal's class features, for free. Not quite a gestalt, in that no extra skill points or saves, but just lots of class features, the hope being that as a whole it will equal to something useful.

Opinions, obvious overpowering mistakes I've made?

[Draz74]

Opinions, obvious overunderpowering mistakes I've made?

I'd give him the extra skill points, personally. But other than that ... sounds decent, for a quick fix.

[Roguenewb]

I guess I could gestalt all the skills section. He must be able to hit tier 4 with all three classes, how about tier 3?

[eggs]

The Knight's class features I can see; that could work out nicely.

The Marshal, I'd be a bit hesitant about. It's basically a pile of +numbers abilities and the Paladin's numbers are already about where they should be. Raising the numbers is just going to make the Paladin more bipolar (charge-enabled save-targeting encounter? trivialized! flying encounter? still really tricky if the paladin's played out of the can).

Paladin's a bit of a tricky class to fix though, because even though it has a really low optimization floor, it has enough tools for a pretty high optimization ceiling (Sword of the Arcane Order, Mystic Fire Knight, Devotion feats, DMG mounts, Battle Blessing, Serenity for crazy SAD, Harmonious Knight, etc).

For general purposes, it probably wouldn't hurt anything to tack the knight on and tune the casting to charisma, but I probably wouldn't go further.

[Roguenewb]

Marshal helps other players too, as well as summons. Marshal just fits the flavor well. I agree, that if you OP the hell out of it, you can get Paladin up to 4, and occasionally 3, but this guy wants to hold his shield in front of him, and take hits while screaming how great his god is.

[eggs]

Marshal helps other players too, as well as summons. Marshal just fits the flavor well. I agree, that if you OP the hell out of it, you can get Paladin up to 4, and occasionally 3, but this guy wants to hold his shield in front of him, and take hits while screaming how great his god is.
Just opening spell compendium and grabbing a nonstandard core mount is enough for it to basically play the same game as the Warblade &co.

It sounds like you might want to grab the pathfinder paladin. Its smite is a quick fix for poor tactics, its numbers are higher, and as long as the guy's aware of things like griffon mounts and the expanded spell list, I doubt he'll have any trouble unless the other players are trying to break things.

[Novawurmson]

How does he feel about a gish build? Sorcadin is popular.

Edit: Pathfinder Paladin I'd put at about a tier 4. Should be fine for low levels, and high levels if the Wizard and Cleric play nice by giving him/her buffs as well.

[Roguenewb]

Pathfinder paladin is an excellent option I totally forgot about (he probably won't sorcadin, hates the Gish flavor), so I'll offer him that too.

Thanks playgrounders.

[Eldan]

You might consider throwing in Battle Blessing as well. I think that's a thing that should always have been in there.

[Feralventas]

If you're not already on your way out, PF paladin's pretty solid, but if he's still having trouble with keeping up, maybe mix in the Tactician aspect of the Cavalier or the Fighter's Weapon/armor Training to even things out; the former lets him provide buffs to the whole party, and the latter will improve his combative ability, if not his utilitarian deficiency.

[Gwendol]

Have him be Knight, with Paladin tacked on and CHA based casting. With DMM, Paladin casting, magical mount, and the Knight's fighting abilities (and D12 HD) you will get something really worthwhile. Skip the Marshal, and take a look at the Purple Dragon Knight PrC instead. Let him stack levels for purpose of advancing Knight/Paladin abilities (but not gaining new ones).
Now he can inspire courage like a bard. On top of everything else. With the knight bonus feats (typically picking mounted combat-related ones) he will already have a lot of options mounted. Just make sure he has a reach weapon when fighting on foot, and combat reflexes, and he'll be fine.

[TopCheese]

Have him play a melee focused cleric?

He can have a low wis* and focus on buffing then give him the feats that burn turn undead attempts to do other things.

Heavy Armor + Martial Weapon (war domain) + Buffs + Shield = Meat Tank

Edit: * low wis as in a 14 ..Which I consider low for a cleric not so much anyone else thos..

[nedz]

What's his play-style ?
If he demonstrates any kind of leadership or face potential then Marshal may work well. How does he feel about diplomancers ?
Knight is better for tanking though.

Really though I'd give him the choice, or see if he has any ideas.
Player Choice > Knight or Marshal