Rope Trick Question (no, not the Bag of Holding one) [D&D] [PF]

[My Oh Myke]

This is my first time rolling a wizard (after I declared such, the DM said "It's a nautical campaign!" and I wept openly on the inside). I don't have much OOC knowledge about planes and such. And it's probably a RAW vs. RAI debate, but I still don't understand how everyone got from point A to B so easily.

Rope Trick's description in every source I can find says it has "enough room for 8 occupants." But you're climbing up a rope. Where does everyone get the idea you can climb up the rope, get off the rope, lie down, and get 8 hours of comfortable sleep so you can get your spell points back?

It doesn't say you have room for 8 occupants and their tents and a campfire and whatnot. You have room for 8 occupants. I rolled a 6 STR for my Wizard, he's gonna have a hard enough time -climbing- the rope. How's he gonna hold on for 8 hours to sleep? It doesn't say what plane you're going to. What if you're on the plane of "It's F-ing cold in here?" You wouldn't have a tent or sleeping bag to protect from the elements. If you took off your heavy armor so you aren't fatigued, what did you do with it? Aren't you now friggin' cold?

Maybe it's just a RAI vs. RAW debate. But if I were DM want wanted to shut this down, that's exactly how I'd do it. I want to play either an Divination or Transmutation-specializing Wizard (PF ruleset), because everyone can play a "gonna get dat boom boom boom" spellcaster. I wasn't going to take Rope Trick at first, because I see it only as an escape spell and a miserable one at that (quick! Everyone climb up one at a time before the dragon uses its fire breath!). But everyone uses it as a safe spot to camp. Doesn't make a -lick- of sense to me.

Edit: with only a 6 STR, I didn't see much point in grabbed the arcane armor feats, I can't hold the armor without encumberance, and I wasn't going to take -every- crafting feat. If Rope Trick makes sense, I'd take Extend Spell and can use it for 8 hours/night with that feat at level 4. This popular usage doesn't make sense to me, though. Maybe I'm not thinking Fantasy RPG-enough. XD

[Urpriest]

One part I can answer: it's not another plane, it's an extradimensional space. Extradimensional is just a fancy word for bigger on the inside, it's not "another dimension" in the silly old-timey sci fi sense.

[Psyren]

1) It's 5 DC to climb a rope trick rope. Just take 10, or have your party Aid you; you would need 0 Str to fail on your own.

2) Why doesn't it make sense to camp in it? The spell lasts for hours. What the heck else did you think it was for?

3) Are there really 8 folks in your party? Because that's the only circumstance under which I'd even begin to worry about room for a campfire, and since your campfire isn't a creature, I wouldn't worry about it then either.

[My Oh Myke]

Because there's enough space for eight people to -climb up a rope-. That could be a space as wide as a chimney, and tall enough for 8 people. You couldn't sleep in that kind of a space.

It doesn't specify the dimensions of that space. My living room could hold 8 people, but so could my chimney if you stack them head to toe.

[Randomguy]

One part I can answer: it's not another plane, it's an extradimensional space. Extradimensional is just a fancy word for bigger on the inside, it's not "another dimension" in the silly old-timey sci fi sense.

Basically this. You don't actually create a portal to another plane, just a little extra-planar pocket. I imagine it would be the same as the inside of a bag of holding (although the inside isn't described, that's just my interpretation).

To explain it in another way, the spell creates a little unfurnished room you can get to by climbing through the rope. The room itself is somewhere else, but the entrance works a bit like a Gate that lets you pass through there. The rope is only attached to the inside of the room, you don't need to stay hanging on the rope while you're inside. The only weather in the room is what passes in through the door. You don't need protection from the elements, the room protects you from the elements. (Although you might need to cover the opening with stuff if it's really cold outside to stop the cold air from coming inside)

[Psyren]

Because there's enough space for eight people to -climb up a rope-. That could be a space as wide as a chimney, and tall enough for 8 people. You couldn't sleep in that kind of a space.

It doesn't specify the dimensions of that space. My living room could hold 8 people, but so could my chimney if you stack them head to toe.

You can fit 8 Colossal creatures in it by RAW, so clearly it doesn't have the dimensions of a chimney. Also, by RAW, it fits 8 people, not "8 standing people" or "8 people if they stand on each other's shoulders." Therefore, no matter what position any of those people adopt (standing, prone, pacing etc.) they can still fit.

In other words, if all 8 inhabitants choose to lie down, they can. Therefore they can also sleep.

[LTwerewolf]

Because there's enough space for eight people to -climb up a rope-. That could be a space as wide as a chimney, and tall enough for 8 people. You couldn't sleep in that kind of a space.

It doesn't specify the dimensions of that space. My living room could hold 8 people, but so could my chimney if you stack them head to toe.

It doesn't specify how the space is created. This means you, as the caster, are allowed to. You could be a **** and create a chimney if you felt like it.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Because there's enough space for eight people to -climb up a rope-. That could be a space as wide as a chimney, and tall enough for 8 people. You couldn't sleep in that kind of a space.

A tree house can hold 8 people. Does that mean that if I climb up to it via a rope or rope ladder, it must be as wide as a chimney?

The spell says that you climb up into the extradimensional space by means of a rope--it doesn't say that the extradimensional space itself is part of the rope. In fact, you can remove the rope entirely from your perception of the extradimensional space, because the fact that the rope can be pulled from out of the Material Plane and into the space suggests that 1) you are in a position to pull a rope upward (quite the daunting task while dangling from that rope), and 2) the rope is actually outside the space. Think of it, instead, as a rope that hangs down from a tree house, only the tree house is actually the TARDIS. You climb up the rope, and, once atop the rope, you are inside another space entirely.

[Mnemnosyne]

One thing to note would be that the 3-foot by 5-foot window is 'centered on the rope' which means the rope is hanging down directly out of that window. It also means there's no solid footing directly beneath the rope. It does not say whether there's solid footing to one side or another of the window, but if the DM wants to prohibit resting inside a rope trick, there is nothing by RAW that states there is any flat ground inside, as near as I can tell. It is entirely up to how the DM and players choose to view the space.

Now, another odd thing is that it holds 8 creatures 'of any size', but the entry/exit is specifically stated to be 3x5 feet. How does a Colossal creature even get into the space?

[mattie_p]

Escape artist, Lots of ranks. Probably only DC 80, maximum.

Polymorph spells, shapechange

Custom reduce monster spell (based off of reduce person, similar to charm/dominate/hold person/monster sequences)

[nedz]

If its a nautical game, I'd be more worried about using in on a ship since the space doesn't move and the ship just might will.

Anyone know what happens if you tie the bottom end of the rope to a ship which is under way ?

[Lonely Tylenol]

If its a nautical game, I'd be more worried about using in on a ship since the space doesn't move and the ship just might will.

Anyone know what happens if you tie the bottom end of the rope to a ship which is under way ?

Is the ship greater than 16,000 pounds?

[nedz]

Is the ship greater than 16,000 pounds?

More than likely, so lets say yes.

[nedz]

OK - having looked the spell up, there are some more of those weasel words.


The rope can support up to 16,000 pounds. A weight greater than this can pull the rope free.

No does or will, but can. Whoever wrote this spell description liked keeping things ambiguous.

[maximus25]

What if 8 people were inside the space when the spell ended?

[Psyren]

A tree house can hold 8 people. Does that mean that if I climb up to it via a rope or rope ladder, it must be as wide as a chimney?

The spell says that you climb up into the extradimensional space by means of a rope--it doesn't say that the extradimensional space itself is part of the rope. In fact, you can remove the rope entirely from your perception of the extradimensional space, because the fact that the rope can be pulled from out of the Material Plane and into the space suggests that 1) you are in a position to pull a rope upward (quite the daunting task while dangling from that rope), and 2) the rope is actually outside the space. Think of it, instead, as a rope that hangs down from a tree house, only the tree house is actually the TARDIS. You climb up the rope, and, once atop the rope, you are inside another space entirely.

While I agree with you, I wanted to point out that Pathfinder nerfed it slightly - you can no longer pull the rope up behind you, nor can you turn it invisible etc. So if you RT in a dungeon you may find a nasty surprise waiting when you wake up.



Now, another odd thing is that it holds 8 creatures 'of any size', but the entry/exit is specifically stated to be 3x5 feet. How does a Colossal creature even get into the space?

1) You could shrink/polymorph a massive creature to get it inside. Even if the spell wore off during the night, you would all still be able to sleep comfortably. This is handy for your dragon/giant/etc traveling companion.

2) Planar travel would work; for instance, a Wish could get someone inside. Not the most economical use of Wish, but possible.


What if 8 people were inside the space when the spell ended?

"Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends." This is true whether there are 8 people inside or 1.

[Randomguy]

If its a nautical game, I'd be more worried about using in on a ship since the space doesn't move and the ship just might will.

Anyone know what happens if you tie the bottom end of the rope to a ship which is under way ?

You could convince the DM that since space is relative the spell (and all spell effects) don't move relative to where you cast them.
Otherwise it would be impossible to cast it under any circumstances, since you cast the spell and the earth zooms away from the rope and the space, and the solar system as well, and the milky way.

Though if you cast it while the ship is anchored, and the ship starts moving, then you'd be left behind.

But in any case unless there are people you don't trust on the ship rope trick shouldn't really be necessary, since if wandering monsters ambush you in the night, they'd just take the ship, and it would be better to be on the same dimension so that you can prevent that.