[3.P/DSP] Pyrokineticist

[Novawurmson]

Fire Lash (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/pyrokineticist#TOC-Fire-Lash-Ps-) says that you can apply any feats that apply to the standard whip with it. You can apply Power Attack (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/power-attack-combat---final) to a standard whip; ergo, you can apply Power Attack to the Fire Lash.

Thus my player contends.

I say that Power Attack can never be applied to touch attacks; ergo, you cannot apply Power Attack to the Fire Lash unless making a regular attack. As further proof, I bring up the Deep Impact feat, which allows touch attacks, but also reiterates that it cannot be used in conjunction with Power Attack.

Thoughts?

[eggs]

It's pretty clear that using it that way is abusive.

But if you want to throw a rules argument at it, there's nothing saying Power Attack can't be used with touch attacks. The wording only stipulates that it doesn't add damage. So he should be able to penalize his attacks to his heart's content, it just won't do anything to damage.

[KoboldCleric]

By strict reading it appears fire lash allows one to "take" feats in conjuction with the fire lash. He is welcome to apply the power attack feat to attacks with the fire lash; note, however, that he will only take the penalty to attack roles because "the bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks".

That said, depending on the player, character, and campaign I may allow the bonus damage to apply anyway, but it's perfectly reasonable to rule that it does not.

Edit: Beaten down in broad daylight? Darn phone internet connection >.>

[Hiro Protagonest]

Fire Lash (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/pyrokineticist#TOC-Fire-Lash-Ps-) says that you can apply any feats that apply to the standard whip with it. You can apply Power Attack (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/power-attack-combat---final) to a standard whip; ergo, you can apply Power Attack to the Fire Lash.

Thus my player contends.

I say that Power Attack can never be applied to touch attacks; ergo, you cannot apply Power Attack to the Fire Lash unless making a regular attack. As further proof, I bring up the Deep Impact feat, which allows touch attacks, but also reiterates that it cannot be used in conjunction with Power Attack.

Thoughts?

If it's specifically mentioned in a feat, that means it's the exception, not the rule.

People who use Emerald Razor a lot would be upset if they can't use PA with it.

[eggs]

People who use Emerald Razor a lot would be upset if they can't use PA with it.
They would be upset in pathfinder.

[Psyren]

The fact that you can take PA with a whip is unfortunately irrelevant. Fire Lash is a ranged attack, so even though you can take Power Attack, it won't actually do anything.

In other words, Fire Lash allows you to take the feats. It doesn't actually say they'll work. To whit:


The lash deals 1d8 points of fire damage to a target within 15 feet on a successful ranged touch attack.


You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls.

[Jarveiyan]

From your example Pa shouldn't be able to be used at all if you take a penalty to melee attacks , while Fire Lash is using ranged attacks. How does melee translate to ranged? I wish I could play this game with all my characters attacks.