[4e] Chandra Nalaar - character help

[SylvanPrincess]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/cardart/LRW/Chandra_Nalaar_640.jpg

hey all, was just thinking a lil about chandra, from magic the gathering, and how she would transfer to 4e dnd. i kinda want to make her my next character, and would appreciate any and all help given, i like the concept a lot, and want to be a caster for once...

my thought was dragon sorc, focusing on fire of course :)

please help!

some more info:
the link to her wiki page :)

chandra (http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Chandra_Nalaar)

basics, red mage, fire user, steam punky, with a lil attitude. looks like she has leather armor, and is a blaster. heres a few of her cards


http://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/standard/131641_1.jpghttp://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/standard/127834_1.jpghttp://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/standard/185149_1.jpg

[tcrudisi]

I've not played M:tG in over a decade. I'm sure there are others here who would like to help you but are in the same position as me. Perhaps you can describe her so that we could give you more feedback?

[SylvanPrincess]

gladly, thank you! here is the link to her wiki page :)

chandra (http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Chandra_Nalaar)

basics, red mage, fire user, steam punky, with a lil attitude. looks like she has leather armor, and is a blaster. heres a few of her cards

http://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/standard/131641_1.jpghttp://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/standard/127834_1.jpghttp://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/standard/185149_1.jpg

[edit]put in OP

[VeliciaL]

Isn't there a Pyromancer Mage build in Dragon magazine somewhere? That looks perfect for her. Race wise, Genasi seems a shoe-in, unless you stick with human.

[tcrudisi]

Isn't there a Pyromancer Mage build in Dragon magazine somewhere? That looks perfect for her. Race wise, Genasi seems a shoe-in, unless you stick with human.

Race is easy: Human, done.

Pyromancy/evocation Mage works well. It's a strong build. It's best for Tieflings and Genasi, though. Humans can do it well simply because the Wizard spells are so strong. However, I think this boils down to what level you are going to play at.

If you are in heroic tier, I'd go Sorc.

If you are in paragon or epic, I'd go Wizard.

Why? Because the Sorc has better fire at-wills. The Wizard's fire at-will (Scorching Burst) is really, really terrible. Also, the Sorc gets its bread and butter encounter power at level 3. Flame Spiral is one of the best striker powers in the game; it's certainly the Sorcs best power. It serves Sorcs just as well at level 30 as it does at level 3.

But really, both Wizard and Sorc do fire powers really well.

[VeliciaL]

I suppose it boils down to flavor really. Sorcerer for more innate powers, Mage for a more studious type. After reading her wiki page, I'm leaning towards Sorcerer, myself.

EDIT: As an aside, here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28817645/Archmages_Ascension_-_The_Wizards_Handbook?pg=1) is the wizard handbook, and here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28976317/The_Demiurge_Molecule:_A_SorcererElementalist_Hand book) is the sorcerer handbook. I like to keep them handy, even if I'm not building optimized characters.

[SylvanPrincess]

yeah, i think sorc too cuz of her innate ability. i think she'd be fun to play, pretty kaotic. would be a level 8 character i believe

know what dragon mag that variant is in?

[VeliciaL]

Not off the top of my head I'm afraid.

[Kurald Galain]

I'd go for wizard, hands down.

Your at-will fire power, scorching burst, may not be all that impressive, but your encounter powers start with Orbmaster's Incendiary and Fire Shroud, and your dailies with Flaming Sphere. And then you get Enlarge Spell. In terms of effectivity, that easily trumps the sorcerer at this level. In terms of damage, if you play a Genasi you've got the sorcerer tied on normal powers, and beat on auto-damage like Flaming Sphere.

Pyromancer mage is a good one. If you want to be more defensive then Staff arcanist is always a good pick. I don't see any particular reason to play human here; you either want Genasi for the big damage bonus, or Tiefling for the better feat support in paragon tier.

[tcrudisi]

I'd go for wizard, hands down.

Your at-will fire power, scorching burst, may not be all that impressive, but your encounter powers start with Orbmaster's Incendiary and Fire Shroud, and your dailies with Flaming Sphere. And then you get Enlarge Spell. In terms of effectivity, that easily trumps the sorcerer at this level. In terms of damage, if you play a Genasi you've got the sorcerer tied on normal powers, and beat on auto-damage like Flaming Sphere.

Pyromancer mage is a good one. If you want to be more defensive then Staff arcanist is always a good pick. I don't see any particular reason to play human here; you either want Genasi for the big damage bonus, or Tiefling for the better feat support in paragon tier.

There's one big reason to play human: Chandra is a human. I suppose you could refluff the race, but I don't see a huge reason to do so.

Yes, the Pyromancer at level 8 will match or surpass the Sorc, especially with Tiefling or Genasi. That's a given. But Chandra is a human. So with that restriction in place?

I go Sorc.

The at-wills are better. Flame Spiral is a far better encounter power than anything the Wizard has. The other encounter powers aren't as good, but they are competitive. It's really the dailies where the Wizard outshines the Sorc.

at-will: big advantage Sorc
encounter: slight advantage Sorc
daily: huge advantage wizard

At-wills are no contest. It's weird saying that about wizard at-wills, but it's true in this case. Wizard has Scorching Burst (meh) and Erupting Flare (blah). Sorc has Blazing Starfall (great), Burning Spray (great), Energy Strobe (meh).

Encounter: At level 1, it's Orbmaster's Incendiary Detonation (wizard, good) versus Explosive Pyre (sorc, good). The difference to me is that Explosive Pyre has the potential to wreck an encounter in the right party. Advantage Sorc at level 1. At level 3, it's Fire Shroud (wizard, very good) versus Flame Spiral (sorc, omgwtf amazing). It's no contest here. As good as Fire Shroud is, Flame Spiral just bends it over and spanks it while Fire Shroud cries and begs for mercy. At level 7, it's Fire Burst (wizard, good) versus Blazing Bolts (sorc, pretty good). Depending on what you've got at this point, I'd argue that Blazing Bolts might actually be better. It lets you target two different creatures that are nowhere close to each other. Due to having other blasts and bursts, that versatility is really nice. I'll call it a draw.

Daily: At level 1, it's Flaming Sphere (wizard, omgwtf amazing) versus ... well, no real choices. There's no comparison here. At level 5, there's crap and crap for both sides. Summon Magma Beast has serious targeting issues and, despite being bad, is still somehow worlds above Fireball. On the Sorc side, there's more ... crap. Palest Flames is a very bad daily for you and it's the only fire power available.

So it comes down to feats. The wizard wins this. But - I think that at level 8 the Human Sorc beats out the Human Wizard Pyromancer.

[Zombimode]

would be a level 8 character i believe

Why would you believe that?

Chandra is a planeswalker. While being a far cry from the "old walkers" like Urza and Serra, she has still abilities the set her appart from any normal mortal.
Remember, the Planeswalker cards do not represent the characters full abilities*. Its called "loyalty counters" for a reason.

Maybe she can be killed by someone sticking a knife in her throat. But she is still able to lay waste on entire cities.

D&D, at large, does a poor job at portraying characters like MTGs neowalkers.

I would stick with the goal to create a character resembling Chandra in the respects that are important to you, instead of trying to accurately recreating her in the ruleset.


* Or rather: what MTG cards represent, flavorwise, is not consistent at all. And thats ok, since MTG is a card game.

[Binks]

I basically played Chandra for a D&D Encounters character a little while back, had a lot of fun. I went Human Elemental Sorcerer. It's not as flexible and probably not strictly as powerful as a fully optimized Sorc or Wizard but it's fun, capable of pumping out ridiculous amounts of fire damage at-will, and very fire oriented with fire resist and lots of fire powers.

Going with Human extra at-will nets you 3 good at-will powers, one that targets each NAD defense (Ignition, Elemental Bolt and Arcing Fire I believe) which is never a bad thing to have. Your ranged basic is 1d12+1d6+Dex damage, targets reflex, and can be escalated to target 2 people and deal an extra d10, which is great for a basic attack.

[SylvanPrincess]

Why would you believe that?

Chandra is a planeswalker. While being a far cry from the "old walkers" like Urza and Serra, she has still abilities the set her appart from any normal mortal.
Remember, the Planeswalker cards do not represent the characters full abilities*. Its called "loyalty counters" for a reason.

Maybe she can be killed by someone sticking a knife in her throat. But she is still able to lay waste on entire cities.

D&D, at large, does a poor job at portraying characters like MTGs neowalkers.

I would stick with the goal to create a character resembling Chandra in the respects that are important to you, instead of trying to accurately recreating her in the ruleset.


* Or rather: what MTG cards represent, flavorwise, is not consistent at all. And thats ok, since MTG is a card game.

oh, sorry bud :) i meant our characters start at level 8. i totally understand who chandra is in MTG, and i am more trying to base a character off of her, not make her exactly, a a level 30 or whatever

tcrudisi: good infor for me thanks. i agree about her being human, though i think a stretch could be made for half-elf for an extra fire power from another class. i think that my dm would let me fluff genasi (always sounds like a cold italain dessert to me!) to be human in appearance and get all firey when emotional. good stuff all, thanks. ill be looking at different builds now, im excited. we still roll numbers too, and i got more than decent ones. i could easily be a wizard/sorc, just an fyi. any thoughts on that?\



I basically played Chandra for a D&D Encounters character a little while back, had a lot of fun. I went Human Elemental Sorcerer. It's not as flexible and probably not strictly as powerful as a fully optimized Sorc or Wizard but it's fun, capable of pumping out ridiculous amounts of fire damage at-will, and very fire oriented with fire resist and lots of fire powers.

Going with Human extra at-will nets you 3 good at-will powers, one that targets each NAD defense (Ignition, Elemental Bolt and Arcing Fire I believe) which is never a bad thing to have. Your ranged basic is 1d12+1d6+Dex damage, targets reflex, and can be escalated to target 2 people and deal an extra d10, which is great for a basic attack.
awesomesauce! is elemental sorc an essentials class or something?

[Binks]

awesomesauce! is elemental sorc an essentials class or something?
Yes. Heroes of the Elemental Chaos. Ranged (generally) Arcane Striker. Fire is one of the options (and the best IMHO).

[Surrealistik]

Yes. Heroes of the Elemental Chaos. Ranged (generally) Arcane Striker. Fire is one of the options (and the best IMHO).

As hellish Chris Hansen from Dateline NBC knows full and well.


https://dl.dropbox.com/u/713896/4e%20-%20FTDM%20Tokens%20-%20HellishChrisHansen.png

[VeliciaL]

i think that my dm would let me fluff genasi (always sounds like a cold italain dessert to me!) to be human in appearance and get all firey when emotional.

The flaming hair is what made me peg her as a Genasi in the first place. :P It's worth noting that Genasi would mesh better with Wizard or Mage, since it boosts Int, not Cha.

[tcrudisi]

good stuff all, thanks. ill be looking at different builds now, im excited. we still roll numbers too, and i got more than decent ones. i could easily be a wizard/sorc, just an fyi. any thoughts on that?

Well, what level do you expect the game to go up to? If you expect it to reach level 30, I'm not sold on that hybrid. If you only expect it to last a few levels and your stats are phenomenal, then go for it.

I'd actually have to build something to see what happens. But, as others have said, if you are going to refluff the race, I'd look at Mage first. It's only if you go Human that I think Sorc wins.

Just out of curiosity, in case I get some free time later tonight: what stats did you roll? This way I can plug it into my char builder and fuss around with it. Also, so when I see the ridiculous stats that I would never roll even if I tried 30 times, I can laugh at how silly rolling for stats is compared to point buy and then pray that 5e doesn't implement rolling as the primary stat creation method.

[Kurald Galain]

There's one big reason to play human: Chandra is a human.
Ah there we go. I haven't played MtG in ages. Still, aren't genasi just mostly humans with an elemental trait? Chandra is definitely that.

Yes, a human wizard is behind a sorcerer in terms of damage.



At-wills are no contest. It's weird saying that about wizard at-wills, but it's true in this case. Wizard has Scorching Burst (meh) and Erupting Flare (blah). Sorc has Blazing Starfall (great), Burning Spray (great), Energy Strobe (meh).
I don't see a big difference here, really. Scorching Burst is mostly identical to Blazing Starfall (BS has the zone, but SB has enlarge spell), and Thunderwave is mostly identical to Burning Spray (because you're not going to be a cosmic sorc anyway, no?). Yes, TW is not a fire spell, but the good part about genasi elementalists is that they can use the occasional cold or lightning spell as well.

This is important actually. If you're dead set on using only fire spells ever, then the wizard is going to have some issues. If you're okay on using 90% fire spells, then you have much more flexibility.

Oh yeah, let's not forget utilities. Wizards get Flame Shield at level 6, which is very good. Another important question here is how many combats per day you expect. If it's only 2 or 3, then the wizard dailies become even more valuable.


i could easily be a wizard/sorc, just an fyi. any thoughts on that?
I would recommend against that, it's not a very effective combination.

[NecroRebel]

i could easily be a wizard/sorc, just an fyi. any thoughts on thatThere's really no benefit to taking a sorc multiclass as a wizard. You can't get the resistance bypass ability, and you can't get the sorc's secondary-stat-to-damage ability unless you paragon MC, which is never worth it. The best you could get from it would be resist 5 to one damage type and access to sorcerer-only feats, but I don't think any of those are good enough to warrant the cost.

Hybrid Wiz|Sorc is probably even worse. You'd need 2 primary and 2 secondary stats, you wouldn't actually get any damage bonuses on the Wizard side from the Sorcerer, and you don't get any of either class's side benefits, either. This combination just has nothing to offer.


I don't see a big difference here, really. Scorching Burst is mostly identical to Blazing Starfall (BS has the zone, but SB has enlarge spell), and Thunderwave is mostly identical to Burning Spray (because you're not going to be a cosmic sorc anyway, no?). Yes, TW is not a fire spell, but the good part about genasi elementalists is that they can use the occasional cold or lightning spell as well.

Blazing Starfall doesn't actually deal any fire damage unless you're a cosmic sorc. It's kind of weird that way.

[vasharanpaladin]

Tiefling fire elementalist, Infernal Prince theme (if allowed). Reskin as necessary. :smallbiggrin:

[Tegu8788]

If I recall there is a way to get wizard utilities other than MCing.

Or, consider Sorcerer that MCs Wizard. Swap for a Utility and a Daily. Burns three feats, but will give you plenty of fire powers. Genasi are humans with a fire taint, Tieflings are humans with a demonic taint (and those demons liked fire).

Not saying that's a very good build, just an idea.

[Kurald Galain]

If I recall there is a way to get wizard utilities other than MCing.

Correct. Assuming your DM allows themes, there's one theme from Dragon magazine that allows your character to take either a single level-2 utility power from the wizard list, or to pick all his utility powers ever from the wizard list (depending on how you read it; the theme is ambiguously written).

Also, if tiefling, you can use the paragon feat Secrets of Belial to take an out-of-class utility power.

[SylvanPrincess]

Well, what level do you expect the game to go up to? If you expect it to reach level 30, I'm not sold on that hybrid. If you only expect it to last a few levels and your stats are phenomenal, then go for it.

I'd actually have to build something to see what happens. But, as others have said, if you are going to refluff the race, I'd look at Mage first. It's only if you go Human that I think Sorc wins.

Just out of curiosity, in case I get some free time later tonight: what stats did you roll? This way I can plug it into my char builder and fuss around with it. Also, so when I see the ridiculous stats that I would never roll even if I tried 30 times, I can laugh at how silly rolling for stats is compared to point buy and then pray that 5e doesn't implement rolling as the primary stat creation method.

ok, new numbers: 16, 13, 14, 18, 12, 16 :)

[RedshirtNPC]

Let's not pass over the Firecrafter theme.

Good fiery flavor and a decent minor action aura.

[SylvanPrincess]

Let's not pass over the Firecrafter theme.

Good fiery flavor and a decent minor action aura.

I love me some aura! What book? Oh, a theme? Not actually sure what themes are

[Tegu8788]

Themes are a third thing to help mechanically define your character, along with class and race. Normally it grants you a power or a feature at level 1, then you can choose to take more powers from it when you level up. Different sources give different kinds of mechanical benefits.

[RedshirtNPC]

I love me some aura! What book? Oh, a theme? Not actually sure what themes are

The theme is in the Heroes of Elemental Chaos

[SylvanPrincess]

so sorry (really!) to necro this thread (thought itd be ok because its the same conversation, just drawn out), but we are finally starting the game! - took months to figure it out lol. next week we start, and i have been re-reading everyone's advice.

what i had decided on was half-elf, (no theme), elementalist (fire), and i wanna optimize around sorcerous blade channeling, and fight midrange-melee, using my killer elementalist at will through my dagger (i think with my numbers that my max damage will be 27 at level 1.

i want to be young and brash, not always in control of my emotions, letting my passion for life and my rage at the world carry me through. we are starting at 1/2 a level for some reason, i think because the dm wants us to all be normal people, drawn into whatever he has planned. another thing, we are in a world where magic has waned to almost nothing, a world just on the cusp of industrialization. im playing a 23 year old who ran away from home at an early age and doesnt talk about her past much. been traveling from city to city, used to the hard life. my sorcerous power only manifested in me a year ago, and it is not even much of anything. can barely control flame, dont know what is happening to me really, and think that someone is out to get me because of this neo magic re-entering the world. so i head to baldur's gate to the old rundown almost abandonned white lotus/equivalent mage school for answers. i instead get more questions, and the feeling that the school would want to use me and quickly leave. im drinking racously in a pub down by the warf when the story begins, trying to make money as a sing/sonwriter/comedian entertainer, saving my flame trick for the end of the show, usually pays my bill and sometimes gets me laid (she is pretty wild :thumb:).

i want to have good all around damage, and be tough, think almost like a blend of Starbuck from the recent battlestar gallactica mixed with pink the musician....and chandra lol. my numbers are decent too

does anyone have any last minute advice for me? feats/mc options for melee/midrange sorc who likes to mix it up? was thinking of the way of the fist mc monk feat to let me scrap it up better. sorcerous blade channeling is my first, and like i said earlier, id like that to be the focus of the build. im trying to get the dm to let me choose at-wills from the regular sorc list too, as long as they have the fire keyword.

[Kurald Galain]

what i had decided on was half-elf, (no theme), elementalist (fire), and i wanna optimize around sorcerous blade channeling,
Well, there isn't much you can do to optimize a 4.4 sorcerer. Just stick with the class as written and you'll be ok.

[SylvanPrincess]

Well, there isn't much you can do to optimize a 4.4 sorcerer. Just stick with the class as written and you'll be ok.

i guess i mean is monk/sorc or rogue/sorc viable? mc?

[Kurald Galain]

i guess i mean is monk/sorc or rogue/sorc viable? mc?

Considering monk and rogue are melee classes, and sorc is a ranged class, I don't think this is such a great hybrid combination. Multiclass works though.

[Tegu8788]

If you need a melee attack in a pinch or want certain feats, either one would be good if you are using a Dex based Sorcerer. I don't think that a Ki Focus would make much of an improvement.

And in case you are thinking of making a hybrid 4.4 Sorcerer, stop. It doesn't exist. I want an elementalist hybrid, but simple essentials and hybrids don't mix. You don't even get to pick most of your powers as it is.

[Crasical]

As hellish Chris Hansen from Dateline NBC knows full and well.


https://dl.dropbox.com/u/713896/4e%20-%20FTDM%20Tokens%20-%20HellishChrisHansen.png

You have been posting that every chance you get lately, huh? :smalltongue:

[Tegu8788]

If you had fought against that guy, you'd understand why.

I have.

I do.

[SylvanPrincess]

Considering monk and rogue are melee classes, and sorc is a ranged class, I don't think this is such a great hybrid combination. Multiclass works though.

Well im trying to optomize sorcerous blade channeling-letting me use a ranged attack as a melee through my daggers. I have the numbers to pull off an mc build, and wantto be melee-midrange.

Thanks all for your thoughts. I do know i cant hybrid elementalist, was looking into multiclassing

[Surrealistik]

If you had fought against that guy, you'd understand why.

I have.

I do.

His eyes... they stare into your soul...

Before cauterizing it utterly.