Whirling Frenzy & TWF

[White_Drake]

If I use whirling frenzy and choose to two-weapon fight with a character, I'll gain two additional attacks, but at the cost of -4 to-hit. I was wondering if anybody with more knowledge of the numbers involved in hitting things could give me some info on whether or not it would be worth it.

[tyckspoon]

Whirling Frenzy still gives the bonus to Strength, which counteracts its own to-hit penalty, so you're at net -2. I don't actually have the math on hand, but I suspect that while making 3 attacks at highest BAB will improve your chances of landing *a* hit, making 2 attacks with no penalty using a two-handed weapon still does better average damage via better quality of hits.

[killianh]

your first attack would only be at a minus 2 because you wouldn't get the extra attack from TWF for it. So if you had the full tree of TWF on a level 20 you would attack with 18/16/11/6/2 with main hand and 16/11/6/2 with off hand I believe. Generally its considered better (especially with a rager) to use a two handed weapon and power attack. For Barbarian make sure to take the Spirit Lion Totem ACF to gain pounce which lets you full attack on a charge

[White_Drake]

Actually, I'm making a duelist (the concept, not the class) but I can never resist taking a single level dip in barbarian for my martial characters for pounce, and I thought whirling frenzy could just be refluffed as a state of intense concentration.

[killianh]

have you decided on other classes? I know there are some nifty PrCs but they usually rely on some skills or abilities you can't use in a rage. Over all I would say go for it.

As was said the bonus to Strength cancels out the penalty to attack so its a choice between the CON bonus, AC penalty, and the will bonus, or the extra attack, attack penalty, reflex bonus, and AC bonus.

One route you might try (and I had a lot of fun with it) would be to play a Thri-Kreen. 4 arms and bite. +2 LA and 2 monstrous humanoid hit dice for Psionic version from Expanded Psionics Handbook. +1 LA plus 2 monstrous humanoid hit dice for the non-psionic version from Shining South pg 16. Go with multiweapon fighting and put all those arms to use with every attack. That or grab a phylactery of change from Arms and Equipment and turn into a Xill. same thing, but gain way more

[White_Drake]

I decided that for once I'd like to play a charismatic character, rather than one with all the charm of a tree stump, so I'd prefer to stay human (you don't see many thri-keen damsels in distress). If you've ever read the Conan stories, think of when he was a pirate, or a thief. Since I wanted a high charisma I decided to go with intimidation so as to put it to good use (I'm playing up that it's fear of my reputation as the best swordsman in the world--I won't really be phenomenal , but for this character it's only the reputation that counts). I've spoilered the rough outline of the build I have in mind.
Race:
Human
Racial Variants:
Magic-Blooded
Classes:
Barbarian 1
Swashbuckler 5
Rogue 4
Alternate Class Features:
Whirling Frenzy (Barbarian)
Lion Spirit Totem (Barbarian)
Martial Rogue (Rogue)
Penetrating Strike (Rogue)
Prestige Classes:
Avenging Executioner 5
Dread Pirate 5
Feats:
Extra Rage
Intimidating Rage
Imperious Command
Daring Outlaw
Combat Expertise
Riposte
Improved Initiative
Quick Draw
Two-Weapon Fighting
Skill Tricks:
Never Outnumbered
Twisted Charge
Nimble Charge
Traits:
Detached
Flaws:
Pride of Arms

[Flickerdart]

If you want to play up Charisma, there are plenty of ways (Heartfire Gauntlets, Divine Might, Slippers of Battledancing, Snowflake Wardance, to name but a few) to get it to be useful in combat.

Your build, by the way, is illegal - a Feat Rogue cannot qualify for Daring Outlaw, you'd need 7 levels of Dread Pirate to get the prerequisites (which means you only get the feat at 18th level and only gain 5d6 SA from it anyway), and RAW, only a Ninja's Sudden Strike counts as SA for feats.

[White_Drake]

I've wanted to play an intimidator for some time now, so this is killing two birds with one stone.

Since it references and directly quotes the ninja's sudden strike ability I think that I can safely assume the sidebar in Complete Adventurer qualifies for both the ninja's, and the avenging executioner's sudden strike.
Also, I don't really need the extra feats, they're just nice, so I could cut that bit.

[killianh]

From what you have there I would drop the swashbuckler at level 3 rather than 5. the extra bonus isn't worth the 2 levels, and it would help the build a lot more to make those two levels fighter for the feats

[White_Drake]

That's what I'm hoping to do if I can get the DM to waive multi-classing penalties, but as it stands I get a minor bonus and more full BAB by going Swash 5/Rogue 4, rather than Swash 4/Rogue 5.

Edit: Oh, you meant actually taking levels in fighter. Same problem with multi-classing, and I'd prefer to stick with classes where I actually get skill points. The difference between Swash 4/Rogue 5 and Swash 3/Fighter 2/Rogue 4 is one feat, which I don't really need that badly.