How do Negative Levels effect Challenge Rating? [Archive]

Surzt and Gurzt

2012-08-23, 10:58 AM

I've been hoping to introduce my players to some seemingly 'over CR' encounters, such as Great Wyrms and Solars, and was wondering on ways to reduce their challenge rating without making them lose their cool special abilities. How much would one or more negative levels effect a powerful monster's CR, assuming it has Spells/SLAs it can lose? For the case of Solars, lets assume they haven't prepared heal or restoration or the like for that day.

Novawurmson

2012-08-23, 11:00 AM

Young Creature (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/simple-template-young-cr-1) - PF content; reduces CR by 1.

Surzt and Gurzt

2012-08-23, 11:45 AM

Novawurmson, I appreciate the help but that doesn't answer my question.

Sliver

2012-08-23, 12:44 PM

But one can't help but find the idea of a Young Great Wyrm amusing.

By one I mean me. As in I.

Eldest

2012-08-23, 12:58 PM

First, it's affect, not effect. Second, why not get a statted out angel, change it to look like a Solar, call it a Solar, and call it a day? I don't know how they affect CR, but I don't why you should bother with it.

Urpriest

2012-08-23, 01:01 PM

I've been hoping to introduce my players to some seemingly 'over CR' encounters, such as Great Wyrms and Solars, and was wondering on ways to reduce their challenge rating without making them lose their cool special abilities. How much would one or more negative levels effect a powerful monster's CR, assuming it has Spells/SLAs it can lose? For the case of Solars, lets assume they haven't prepared heal or restoration or the like for that day.

This is the fundamental problem with your idea. The cool special abilities are precisely what gives them high CR, and are why you can't just use Negative Levels to lower CR.

Kelb_Panthera

2012-08-23, 02:03 PM

Since a negative level is fairly analogous to an outsider HD in reverse, I'd peg it at -roughly- one point of cr lost for every two negative levels, that being the reverse of the MM's table that says +1 cr for every 2 HD.

KillianHawkeye

2012-08-23, 06:59 PM

I'd say it depends on the creature.

In general, negative levels should affect CR in the exact opposite way that normal levels do so. So for humanoid creatures whose CR is equal to their level, the change is at a 1:1 ratio. For more monstrous characters, I'd treat negative levels as unassociated class levels, so they'd lose 1/2 CR for each.