Fantastic Spain?

[Admiral Squish]

So, I'm starting to work on a campaign. Originally, it was going to be a generic setting, but as the planning went on, it eventually came to mind that it would be really cool to see a fantastic version of Spain, instead of the usual Britain. Problem is, I really don't know much about Spain. So, I'm picking the playground's brain about it. Are there any D&D monsters native to Spain? What sort of things would really help give the feeling of medieval Spain to a setting? I'm doing research on things like terrain and historical events, but there's not much that gives a real feeling of Spain.

So far, I've got a few ides:
A war with a elven france-anologue.
An inquisition/reconquista by a powerful silver flame-esque church
St. George fights the dragon
Don Juan, perhaps?

[Spiryt]

Well, wouldn't it be better to try with something you're know more about ?

Just a suggestion, I mean "Spain" out of the blue just seems somehow random. :smallbiggrin:

Would need clarification about roughly what period Spain you have in mind...

Medieval Spain would be in huge part about few kingdoms fighting Almohads and then other Islamic powers over the territory and stuff.

[The Glyphstone]

An annual Running of the Gorgons festival?

[Admiral Squish]

Well, wouldn't it be better to try with something you're know more about ?

Just a suggestion, I mean "Spain" out of the blue just seems somehow random. :smallbiggrin:

Would need clarification about roughly what period Spain you have in mind...

Medieval Spain would be in huge part about few kingdoms fighting Almohads and then other Islamic powers over the territory and stuff.

If I only did things I knew about, I'd never learn new things.

It's not entirely random. the campaign idea has players playing the entourage of a Don Quixote-esque character. If you want the whole story, check out the interest check thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252832).

There need be no specific time period. I'm gonna get all the information I can, then sorta create a amalgamation of all the cool parts of their history.

[Hopeless]

Have you watched El Cid?

[Tyrrell]

It was perhaps the most egregious example of White Wolf -world of darkness-iffying Ars magica, but there is an ars magica spain suplement from the early 90's that has lots of good stuff (and lots of WoD themed less good stuff) in it for sale as a pdf here:
http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=AG0750PDF

[Ashtagon]

I'm seeing

A culture that is equal parts humans, half-elves, and elves assimilated together.

A high elven led inquisition out to remove religious heresy from the community.

Dwarves, gnomes and halflings as an underclass in isolated communities, struggling under the yoke of the local dukes and petty kings, and preparing a revolution for independence, perhaps proposing a world without kings and dukes.

Dwarves being especially angry at the "beard tax". A few quislings have joined the ducal forces and shaved their beards as a sign of their new-found loyalty.

A potentially rich seafaring tradition, mostly in the background of the campaign until such a time as you want the campaign to expand.

Various dukes struggling against the king, hoping to replace the king as the top dog in the land.

A nation of hadozee to the south, which once controlled most of the land and terrorised the people, but is now mostly confined to a rocky peninsula.

Giff merchants from the north introducing gunpowder weapons -- weapons which are mostly dismissed by the dukes and king, but are gleefully purchased by the dwarves.

[Admiral Squish]

A bunch of cool ideas there! Mind feeding us your reasoning for them?

One more vague idea: the conquest of the new world. Spain played a major part in colonizing the Americas. Perhaps I could set up a portal between the Pillars of Hercules that would take players to a lizardfolk-dominated meso-america. Of course, this would have the be later in the game, if it is to happen at all.

[Pokonic]

An annual Running of the Gorgons festival?

Pffft.


Anyway, it would depend on what time period you want it to be based off of. If it's one where Spain is in heavy conflict with southern powers, one of the main opposing forces in the game could be a roc-riding dinjin-allied arabian-nights inspired nation (screw accuracy, roc riders.)

Dragons would probably be of Young age or smaller, with most of the older ones migrating north. St. George was actualy killing a wrymling, and up in the varying Nodic states you get big buggers that go down south every generation or so and lay a clutch of eggs near the equator.

Portugal or any sort of stand-in might have some seafolk allies, if it's not just a land settlement for some vast sea empire with some human servants who think there indipendent from Not-Spain because there awsome. Hence, both Not-Spain's and Not-Portugal have merfolk allies, which help's with the whole "sea travel" thing. Not-Arabia would have Marid friends, tho.

Think about how creatures could be incorparated. That caravan the king had requested himself? It crashed, and now there's a bunch of Griffon chicks running around eating livestock and not being posed for heraldry.

Giants would probably of the Fi Fi Fo Fum sort, mostly Hill Giants and such. Throw out a random curse at the players to make them think that every Giant they see is a windmill.:smallbiggrin:

[eulmanis12]

an annual windmill jousting competition:smallbiggrin:

Minoutar fights

The elveths mutht talk like thith

perhaps a civil war in which both sides are the puppets of much larger outside nations fighting a proxy war?

[ForzaFiori]

Hidalgos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidalgo_(Spanish_nobility)). Lot's of Hidalgos. Everyone either is one, or wants to be one.

Petty feuds as well. Despite being a unified country, each region believes itself to be head and shoulders above any of the others.

[nedz]

An annual Running of the Gorgons Minotaurs festival?

FTFY :smallsmile:

You should be able to use all of the Islamic mythology, but perhaps twisted with some chinese whispers. Something like the Genie of the Limp ?

[The Glyphstone]

FTFY :smallsmile:

You should be able to use all of the Islamic mythology, but perhaps twisted with some chinese whispers. Something like the Genie of the Limp ?

My bad, I forgot that the 'Gorgon (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG137.jpg)' in D&D is actually nothing like an actual mythological Gorgon.

[Ashtagon]

Minotaur fighting, both as a sport and as a means of execution.

When used for execution, the criminal is given a ball of string as his weapon.

[Slipperychicken]

Minotaur fighting, both as a sport and as a means of execution.


Why stop with just minotaurs? Go all-out and stage fights between every monster the Kingdom can get its hands on (admittedly, that would make it feel more Imperial Roman than Spanish). Gladiatorial fighting could even give the PCs a cute minigame and plot hook delivery service ("Oh brave Toreadors, please help us!"). Use Pathfinder's Performance Combat rules to determine how famous the PCs get from it.


Of course, when fighting Minotaurs/Gorgons/Bulls, the victim Brave Toreador is to be armed with nothing but a red cape.

[Ashtagon]

A bunch of cool ideas there! Mind feeding us your reasoning for them?

One more vague idea: the conquest of the new world. Spain played a major part in colonizing the Americas. Perhaps I could set up a portal between the Pillars of Hercules that would take players to a lizardfolk-dominated meso-america. Of course, this would have the be later in the game, if it is to happen at all.

That portal would have to be controlled by the hadozee nation (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gibraltar+monkey&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a).

[Ravens_cry]

Giants that can transform into buildings, most often windmills.
Helmets of true seen, which often resemble bowls used to hold fruit, are common in the land to aid in their discovery.

[faustin]

If you want an Historical-fantastic campaign, none better than Aquelarre (http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14243.phtml)

[nedz]

This list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_mythology) is probably a useful starting point.

Spain has hosted a number of cultures, so you probably ought to choose a period:
Celtic (Cantabrian) in the north
Basque
Pheonecian
Greek
Cathagian
Roman
Visigoth
Islamic
Christian

[darni]

I'm actually playing on a campaign where one of the kingdoms is Spain based, and my character is from that one (which led my to a lot of research while preparing her). Let me throw you a bunch of random ideas, on the culture and history.

Spain as a single country is mostly post-medieval. In the middle ages you had a lot of smaller kingdoms/territories (Basques, Galicians, Catalan, Castillians, etc) each with their own customs, language, and each of them with a strong national pride (which survives to this day). Reading a bit about each of them may help you having a very varied world.

Through the middle ages, a very significant part of their history were their conflicts with the moors. This had a large impact on culture; these aren't cruzades where some soldiers go to a remote land, or an invasion where an attack or siege lasts for a couple of years. The occupation lasted for centuries, so Moors actually built their own cities and mixed up a lot culturally. That's something that could also be an interesting addition to your world.

In fact, for the mythology, the Arab sources might help you a lot, and there's a lot of Arba mythology on D&D. Arabs believed in magicians and have lots of stories having magicians and magical items, gold and gems, and magical beasts (djinns, rocs, cyclops). Arabian nights is a must-read, and some of that seeped into medieval Spain.

Spanish mythology per-se is not so heavily magic; it tends to be more about lost islands, explorers and forgotten treasures, or knights and heroes. There are some references to giants and "duendes" (some kind of elf/fey of the mischievous kind, living hidden in homes), so that could go well as a D&D setting. If you go farther back in time, you can find some celtic influence (check this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantabrian_mythology) which includes some variants of goblins and dragons), and also Greek myths (Hercules is said to be buried in Spain according to some myths). And well, you have of course Catholic mythologic, so angels vs. demons should be commonplace too (even if not specifically Spanish)

Something else that your players will find typically Spanish is, as others have mentioned, is the Inquisition and Witchcraft. Everybody expects the Spanish Inquisition :smallsmile:

And the conquest of the Americas theme might be interesting too

There is one last point that you *need* to add to make it really Spanish: parties. No, really, these guys really know how to celebrate. I don't mean gathering a large group of friends for dinner; I mean stopping a whole city for several days long, where everyone is part of the festival, the whole cities is decorated, people wear costumes, there are a lot of costumes and fireworks, and stuff set on fire. If your cities don't feature this kind of stuff, they're not Spanish :smallsmile:

Let me throw you a few examples of festivities that might go nicely. Google for more details:


San Fermín, Bull runs/fights in Pamplona
La Dansa de la Mort (Dance of Death) in Verges: A procession through the city with multiple dramatizations, bust mostly known for the people dressed as dancing skeletons
Gracia, in Barcelona, where each citizen participates decorating their streets (which are closed to vehicles), wears typical costumes and acts as a hosts for visitors; then authorities visit each street, are explained the decoration theme, and pick the best decorated street. (then add fireworks, and people running the streets dressed as devils, these festivals have a lot of stuff going on)
La Patum, in Berga has a series of folk dances in the street with various thematical costumes each: Turks vs Knights, Angels (and St. Michael with a lance) vs. demons (including maces with fireworks), giants and dwarves, and then some more demons with fireworks jumping down the square.
Les Falles in Valencia. lots of fireworks and parades. People from each neighborhood build a giant doll, show it around, and during the night they set it on fire.


This went longer than I thought. If I get bored, I may add some more later

[God Imperror]

*stickies thread*

Imho, as a Spaniard what gives the "best" Spanish feeling can be pretty different from what people from other countries would identify as Spanish.

Looking over Spanish literature of late medieval era there are two main kinds of characters. Honor bound martial characters that never back down and truly genre savvy characters that con and trick others to survive.

Don Quixote was genre savvy and honor bound, but... he was in the wrong genre, poor dude.

The toreadors (or matadores probably more fitting) are armed with short spears and rapiers too.

Note that in the Spanish peninsula historically there have been several kingdoms (and more specially cultures) living at once.

At the time period there is the Castillian kingdom, the Catalan - Aragonese kingdom (even if both the Castillian kingdom and the aragonese kingdom were intermixed through marriage they weren't truly united, not in tradition nor in trade) the Portuguese and the Islamic kingdoms.

[Alejandro]

Well, depending on the time period, you could have an incredibly retarded king, and an enormous war over the throne. :)

Check out Charles II of Spain, and the War of Spanish Succession, which was (excluding the modern World Wars) one of the largest and farthest reaching conflicts Europe ever had.

[North_Ranger]

Hordes of semi-nomadic foreigners from the north in ox-drawn wheelhouses, heading to the beaches and major cities during certain seasons? Complaining about local cuisine, inns generally being full of entire clans of these foreigners, clerics making a buttload of cash on cure minor wounds on all the sunburns? :smalltongue:

[Beleriphon]

Hordes of semi-nomadic foreigners from the north in ox-drawn wheelhouses, heading to the beaches and major cities during certain seasons? Complaining about local cuisine, inns generally being full of entire clans of these foreigners, clerics making a buttload of cash on cure minor wounds on all the sunburns? :smalltongue:

That doesn't sound so much like Span as it does like Quirm. (http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Quirm)

[dps]

Hm. Highly centralized Lawful Evil Kingdom vs highly decentralized alliance of states that are all Neutral/Chaotic but might be anywhere on the Good/Evil line. I think that even those with just a slight knowledge of Spanish history can figure out which era that would be based on.

[Jay R]

I would certainly have giants who first appear to be windmills.

[ForzaFiori]

Well, depending on the time period, you could have an incredibly retarded king, and an enormous war over the throne. :)

Check out Charles II of Spain, and the War of Spanish Succession, which was (excluding the modern World Wars) one of the largest and farthest reaching conflicts Europe ever had.

And led to my 2nd favorite law ever. It's officially illegal for the King of France to also be the King of Spain. Not that it's really a problem seeing as France hasn't had a king for a while.

[faustin]

Don Quixote was genre savvy and honor bound, but... he was in the wrong genre, poor dude


I would certainly have giants who first appear to be windmills

What about a setting where Don Quixote were right and there were monsters and witches hidding in plain sight of mortals, with only a few of them being able to discern the truth, a la Hunter the Vigil rpg or Grimm the TV serie?:smallcool:

[God Imperror]

Well since it ends being a fantastic rpg it could work, but it would have to be done really carefully, or it might be against the spirit of the character.

Don Quixote is mad because he has read so many fantastic novels that he believes that those are real, the reader knows that those aren't real, but Don Quixote's fervor keep some of the credulous characters almost believing on him. For this reason the adventures of Don Quixote that would be strictly against other characters beliefs happen when he is alone, for example Don Quixote maintains that he is a knight, he is actually not, for he armors himself in a inn believing it to be a castle (no other character knows this). It is not to say that he doesn't do right things, oh, he always tries to do the right thing, but most of the time the right thing he does and the right thing he believes he is doing have little in common.

[faustin]

More than acting against the spirit of the novel, it´s about twisting it into something similar to Changeling the Dreaming: There are two worlds: real and imaginary, and the character is between them. Which one is the true one? Is really one only truth, or it´s all about perspective? Is the Magic Realism trope.

[GenghisDon]

I ran a great 2.5e AD&D campaign set in the iberian peninsula of early medieval times.

The Ars Magica supplement "Iberia" is a fantastic resource for a fantasy "spain" (seeing as spain doesn't exist yet)

Having human conflict, over land, religon, culture & politics being the main focus doesn't preclude it being a great game.

And yeah, there be dragons, giants & ogres. Arabic type monsters are brought along, so djinn & efreeti, ect, also suit very well.

It's just better to have such creatures be relatively unique/uncommon. They will tend to be more powerful individually, but low in numbers (often solitary or a few encountered)

[jackattack]

Perhaps four-armed giants?

The online monstropedia(.org) allows you to look up creatures by culture. "Search by mythology" on the upper left, click "European", and have at. Includes Spanish and Basque critters.

Giants, Monsters, & Dragons by Carol Rose also has an index by region (modern nation), but be warned -- she lists every giant individually by name.

[Daedroth]

In fairy tales of Mallorca (Island of Spain) we have in almost all tales the next magical creatures:

- Giants, often evil but not always.
- Evil man or woman with powers: witch or warlock.
- Good woman (I don't remember any man) with powers: fairy ( Its the good equivalent to a witch, a fairy is still human).
- "Dragons", often Rino type or Hydra type, animal intelligence.
- Holy mans, often with sorcereer-like powers (Something like Moises opening the waters).

And magic items, usually:
- Something that creates food.
- A flute than make the people dance.

Other magic items can even duplicate spells like Wish (Or summon a genie, often a good one).

[Admiral Squish]

These are all a lot of really cool ideas. You've all been a lot of help, I'm starting to come up with a pretty clear picture of what this setting will be like.

[NamelessNPC]

And led to my 2nd favorite law ever. It's officially illegal for the King of France to also be the King of Spain. Not that it's really a problem seeing as France hasn't had a king for a while.

Ok, so what's the first one?