Twilght Caste!

[TimeWizard]

Can you help me up to my a twilicast? my friend needs help and I don't know much about exalted magic

[Hiro Protagonest]

Saying "I need help building a Twilight Caste" is like saying "I need help buying a car". With the car analogy, you're not saying what budget you have, how much you've looked into them, what you want the car to do, etc.

[Drglenn]

Also a list of the houserules you're playing under would be helpful. Assuming this is the same game to your other thread its not really Exalted, it's "TimeWizard's ST's vaguely Exalted-based system".

[TimeWizard]

-Please excuse my earlier lack of information, i was trying to post from my phone while out and about. I'm helping my friend make a Twilight Caste Sorcerer, and she is a neophyte to rpgs in general, while i am a novice to Exalted. Drglenn, I don't remember any of your comments in the previous threads, but you obviously read them :smallwink: so you're in the loop. Most everything is the same as Exalted 2.5 (we use errata), only regular combat and social combat are simplified to skill rolls a la DnD 3.5's [ATT+ABILITY] rolls, so assume regular game rules.

This character has a mind-numbing 450 experience points to spend (the tradeoff is that she can only be used to this 5~6 game story arc) and wants to learn Terrestrial, Celestial, and Solar Circle Sorcery. We have all the Exalted books except Return of the Scarlet Empress and Broken Winged Crane, but there's a lot of books about sorcery and I have no idea where to start with any of them.

I know the first reactions I'm going to get are "your ST is crazy" and "The power balance in your group is incredibly wrong" all of which is true, but alas I am not able to correct these things. The player of the 450 xp Sorcerer is not in any way skilled at thoughtcrafting or generally powerbuilding characters, So I would like to help her. Any advice on the proper use of Sorcery and which books/charm trees/general tips would be Thoroughly appreciated.

If you're interested in why we have an xp total of 150, 160, 160, 300, and 450, I have spoilered the backstory for you:


The first four characters were a Zenith, Night, Dawn and Twilight. Only the Dawn remains. The Twilight was killed at Game 6, and the Night player had to stop playing for personal reasons, so the Twilight rerolled a Night. Game 25 or so, by general fault of my Eclipse all the characters were scattered to the winds and a 20 year time skip happened. My Eclipse and the Zenith were so story broken by events that we each rerolled Night Caste at 150 xp (now up to 160). A new Player has rolled up a Dawn starting at 150 xp. The Origional Dawn is still active (the groups only consistant member) and he's at about 300 xp. The new Night Caste player bought out of the story rp wise, and her original Twilight Caste character was sent back from heaven by the Unconquered Sun himself to stop the End Of All Creation by a Half Solar/Half Abyssal (think Two Face) Exalted Hate Monger, who may or may not have hijacked a machine built by Autocthonia to bring order to all existence. So the Twilight is specially gifted by UCS for as many games as it takes to wrap that up with 450 xp, since she's been in Heaven (or Yushan, whichever, I'm a little confused on the distinction) for about 60 years just accumulating positive solar radiation goodness.

Exalted is flippin great, ain't it?

[Hiro Protagonest]

...That spoiler just about breaks the concepts of exaltation and the situation in Yu-Shan in half.

I am deeply troubled by it.

A) Characters can get only one exaltation. The closest you can get to half-Solar half-Abyssal is the child of one of the hosts of an untrapped Solar exaltation who exalted as an Abyssal. If it's explained as the fact that Abyssals can turn into Solars, sure, you can invent some hybrid for redeemed characters instead, but being an Abyssal sometimes and a Solar sometimes is right out.

B) The Bronze Faction would immediately move to assassinate the Solar, Gold Faction be damned. On top of that, the Unconquered Sun isn't some benign god who would gladly take her in, he's either too addicted to the Games or is just trying to keep out of exalted affairs in general.

[Plague of Hats]

Despite the book series' name, the only Book of Sorcery that's really about spells of sorcery is The Black & White Treatises, specifically the White Treatise. (Really, "Black and White Treatises" is a reference to an in-game sorcery resource, whereas the published game book Black Treatise is about necromancy. Because, you know. Black I guess. Eh, Second Edition.)

So, anyway, the vast majority of spells published for Second Edition can be found in The White Treatise. Gainging access to them in a general sense is as easy as buying the Terrestrial, Celestial, and Solar Circle Sorcery Charms, as outlined in the core rule book under the Occult Ability.

As much as 450xp can look like, it can go pretty fast, especially when you're scooping up armfuls from a grab-bag like sorcery. What kinds of spells would the character be inclined to? What other things do they do, that they might want to enhance with Charms?

[Lord Raziere]

...That spoiler just about breaks the concepts of exaltation and the situation in Yu-Shan in half.

I am deeply troubled by it.

A) Characters can get only one exaltation. The closest you can get to half-Solar half-Abyssal is the child of one of the hosts of an untrapped Solar exaltation who exalted as an Abyssal. If it's explained as the fact that Abyssals can turn into Solars, sure, you can invent some hybrid for redeemed characters instead, but being an Abyssal sometimes and a Solar sometimes is right out.

B) The Bronze Faction would immediately move to assassinate the Solar, Gold Faction be damned. On top of that, the Unconquered Sun isn't some benign god who would gladly take her in, he's either too addicted to the Games or is just trying to keep out of exalted affairs in general.

Beh, I'm starting to get sorta meh towards Exalted "heresies" and am starting to agree with that guy that RPG's are primarily are recreational thing, and that Exalted fans take it a little too seriously.
Exalted Solar-Abyssal hybrid twoface? why the heck not? lets have a mad scientist Sidereal steal a Dragon-Blooded Exaltation and fuse it with their own next and have them start influencing Fate using water magic and using fate magic to blast water at people. I'm already picturing a Water Secrets fighting against an Air Dawn. while a Water Twilight watches.

[Friv]

...That spoiler just about breaks the concepts of exaltation and the situation in Yu-Shan in half.

I am deeply troubled by it.

Ehn. Lots of things can make for great concepts in individual groups that aren't allowed in a normal game. Strange, unique, bizarre things happen in Creation all the time. That story is far, far less weird than some of the stuff I've played.

Twilight Wizard, ignore him.

Anyway. Sorcery. Here's the trick - sorcery is at its best covering for things that you can't do inherently as an Exalt. It is also at its best when summoning.

For a 450 XP Twilight, I'd say you definitely want Demon of the First and Second Circle. Third Circle is trickier; at Essence 5, they are not easy to summon, and spending 8 XP for a power that can only be used once a year is not everyone's cup of tea. You can also swap out 1CS Demon for Summon Elemental.

Swift Spirit of Winged Transportation is a wonderful Celestial spell, because it gets you around Creation with astonishing speed, and with a plot like this, that seems valuable. Adamant Countermagic is usually nice to have. Generally, the best Solar spells are the long, slow ones, not the combat-speed ones.

Your friend will also want to look into several purchases of Imminent Solar Glory; sorcerers tend to be mote hogs. Also maybe some Cult, as a scion of the Unconquered Sun.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Beh, I'm starting to get sorta meh towards Exalted "heresies" and am starting to agree with that guy that RPG's are primarily are recreational thing, and that Exalted fans take it a little too seriously.
Exalted Solar-Abyssal hybrid twoface? why the heck not? lets have a mad scientist Sidereal steal a Dragon-Blooded Exaltation and fuse it with their own next and have them start influencing Fate using water magic and using fate magic to blast water at people. I'm already picturing a Water Secrets fighting against an Air Dawn. while a Water Twilight watches.

There are three rules of Exalted that are absolute and implacable.

A) There is no time travel.
B) Death is permanent.
C) You can only have one exaltation.

Hell, ignore my second point about a Solar not safely being able to live in Yu-Shan. That's something along the lines of "yes, you are allowed on the Daystar" or "yes, Lunars can learn Sidereal Martial Arts". Although I think these events should be seen as a redemption of the Sun, and should play out as such. But messing with the very nature of an exaltation is something only the Martyr effects of Primordials are able to do. Not even Autochthon was able to prune or scrub the Curse off the Celestial Exaltations. Autochthon would have to present you with blank slate exaltations if you wanted to forge something new.

Anyway, back on topic.

Vol. II is indeed the only one with sorcery spells. But Vol. III has expanded Thaumaturgy. While most of it would be relatively useless for a Twilight, the Art of Alchemy is a great thing to use in your downtime, and holds the secrets to smelting the magical materials. Vol. It has magitech stuff, so if you want to say the Twilight's spent some time forging Celestial Battle Armor (make sure to houseule the Power Mace/Essence Gauntlets to match the errata better) or even a Royal Warstrider (which would require the blessing of the Unconquered Sun), then go for it.

(also, there's a simple, decent warstrider fix (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TJO9sbBofS8Wns-WcLpogE0GfOeMlqbAUtouov-F7ZY/edit?pli=1). And there's also Kyeudo's warstrider fix linked in the first post of the General Discussion Thread, although I haven't looked at that)

[The_Snark]

There are three rules of Exalted that are absolute and implacable.

No.

I mean, yes, they're absolute within the canon Exalted setting, but Exalted canon is not an inviolate law that all Storytellers must abide by. If I wanted to run a Doctor Who-themed game featuring a Twilight refugee from the Primordial War who careens through time acquiring companions from various historical periods, I'd do it. Impossible? Yeah, but so what? If canon and my premise flatly contradict one another, you can guess which one I'm going to throw out.

So if the players don't mind a Solar/Abyssal blend and it makes for a fun game, what's the big deal? I like canonical Exalted well enough, but not so much that I'm going to get upset when someone in a game I'm not even playing in decides to change/ignore it.

[Lord Raziere]

There are three rules of Exalted that are absolute and implacable.

A) There is no time travel.
B) Death is permanent.
C) You can only have one exaltation.



I dunno…by my memory, C is: "You cannot Un-Exalt". It says nothing about Exalting twice.

and the point is moot anyways because The_Snark is right. :smallamused:

[Hiro Protagonest]

I dunno…by my memory, C is: "You cannot Un-Exalt". It says nothing about Exalting twice.

Both. Once exalted, your soul cannot take another exaltation. But as long as your soul remains in your body, the exaltation remains grafted to it. You cannot un-exalt, you cannot swap exaltations with someone else, you cannot have two exaltations, and the only way to change an exaltation that has a host is Abyssal redemption or a Solar being changed to an Abyssal.

Although it's "you cannot un-exalt unless you die".

However, let me correct an earlier statement. You cannot fundamentally change an exaltation except with the Martyr effect of a Primordial. The Neverborn flipped the Solar exaltations around, and the Yozis attached a bunch of stuff to some Solar exaltations, and the Akuma are modified exaltations that switch back upon the death of the Akuma.

[Friv]

All three hard rules can be waived if the story is right. There's an Exalted novel with time travel. One of the options of the Emissary is that he was the first, and to date only, person to be successfully resurrected, and there were horrible side effects.

When someone asks for character creation rules, and you respond by criticizing their game's story, you really aren't helping anyone.


Both. Once exalted, your soul cannot take another exaltation. But as long as your soul remains in your body, the exaltation remains grafted to it. You cannot un-exalt, you cannot swap exaltations with someone else, you cannot have two exaltations, and the only way to change an exaltation that has a host is Abyssal redemption or a Solar being changed to an Abyssal.

So this weird guy has two souls. It's never happened before; it's a total glitch in causality, a once-in-infinite-billion chance that occurred due to the strands of Samsara twisting in just the right way. And because only a truly exceptional being can exist in this way, one of those souls Exalted as a Solar. And because that Exaltation attempted to burn the guy's second soul out of existence, it Exalted as an Abyssal.

Or, hell, he spent too long staring at the Black Mirror, and now he's trapped halfway between Solar and Abyssal in nature.

Or he learned some custom Charms that are very useful for him, but I'd rather keep it a unique event if I were to do it.


Although it's "you cannot un-exalt unless you die".

Or, again technically, if you do something to your soul that makes you not a viable candidate for Exaltation anymore, or if you're permanently rendered unable to function as an Exalt.

[golentan]

I wouldn't allow dual exaltations for a different reason. If someone realizes it's possible, sooner or later Twilight madness will prevail and they will engineer a being capable of hoovering up all of the celestial exaltations out there, possibly with some Legendary Breeding blood transfusions and cyborg implants, and she'll just declare herself queen bitch of the universe and stomp reality into submission. The problem being that such a being is BORING, from a narrative perspective. Exalts are supposed to do the impossible, see the invisible, touch the untouchable and dodge the undodgeable, but it's all still supposed to be epic and challenging. It's supposed to remain impossible, then the exalt punches impossible in the face and does it anyway. Concentrating that much narrative power prevents anything not equally stupidly overpowered from even registering at the level a mortal registers to a primordial. And there's nothing in canon which can allow that, you're stuck dragging an increasingly ludicrous series of rectum pulls to justify anything continuing.

Plus, exalts are already pretty much encouraged to be borderline mary/villain sues to begin with. They're one of a tiny, select group who are awesome in ways lesser beings can't even begin to imagine, and who exceed in scope even the Powers that Be in the setting when they hit their stride. Needing to add further "special snowflake" status just kind of seems... sad. I know everyone's entitled to do things their way in their own game, but at the same time when I see "dual abyssal solar" written I do have to say that something has gone horribly off the rails.

[Plague of Hats]

I wouldn't allow dual exaltations for a different reason. If someone realizes it's possible, sooner or later Twilight madness will prevail and they will engineer a being capable of hoovering up all of the celestial exaltations out there, possibly with some Legendary Breeding blood transfusions and cyborg implants, and she'll just declare herself queen bitch of the universe and stomp reality into submission.
I can jump over my cat, but I don't think I'll ever be able to jump to the Moon.

[Ronnoc]

While it is a "rule" that you can't exalt twice I can think of a few simple work arounds. The proposed double exalt is explicitly compared to two face and presumably only has access to one power set at a time. I could easily see a Deathlord messing around with grafting a second hun-po soul combo onto someone and then giving him an abyssal exaltation. Admittedly having 6 souls might get complicated but hey Deathlords are wacky, or given the Two-Face characters motivation I could also see Swlihn getting involved.

Given that the character is an abyssal/solar exalt you could also rule that however he switches personalities affects him like the black mirror.

[golentan]

I can jump over my cat, but I don't think I'll ever be able to jump to the Moon.

You may not jump there personally, but people have bounced around on there. One exaltation per living human. Else, what's the justification for NOT getting more? The black mirror charms already exist to give people access to charmshare between the listed splats, why do we have to break a fundamental, sanity-cap rule of the setting?

[Friv]

You may not jump there personally, but people have bounced around on there. One exaltation per living human. Else, what's the justification for NOT getting more? The black mirror charms already exist to give people access to charmshare between the listed splats, why do we have to break a fundamental, sanity-cap rule of the setting?
:smallfurious:

Because it is their game, and they decided that it would be neat.

Seriously. The guy came here for help with character creation, and you've decided that the productive thing to do for him is to insult his ST's story-telling skills?

In what possible universe is anything that you are saying useful information? Either the character works in their game or it doesn't. If it does, you loudly proclaiming that it doesn't isn't changing anything, and if it doesn't, they'll pretty much figure that out on their own.

[golentan]

I wasn't trying to help the OP. I was trying to help what I saw as the more interesting and correct side on the more interesting tangential discussion.

[Friv]

{{Scrubbed}}

[Gareth3]

There's a canonical NPC with both Abyssal and Solar charms, Fallen Wolf of the Cutting Sea. I'm not clear on the mechanical justification for that.

[The_Snark]

There's a canonical NPC with both Abyssal and Solar charms, Fallen Wolf of the Cutting Sea. I'm not clear on the mechanical justification for that.

It's done via Unconquered Hero's Faith, an Abyssal Integrity Charm that lets you learn Solar Charms as a Moonshadow would (as well as letting you use the Solar Mirrors of your Abyssal Charms). Basically intended for Abyssals on the road to redemption, though it doesn't have to be used that way.

[Gareth3]

It's done via Unconquered Hero's Faith, an Abyssal Integrity Charm that lets you learn Solar Charms as a Moonshadow would (as well as letting you use the Solar Mirrors of your Abyssal Charms). Basically intended for Abyssals on the road to redemption, though it doesn't have to be used that way.

Thanks. So you could have an Abyssal character with lots of Solar charms, which is fairly close to the OP's concept.

[meschlum]

To get back on topic, Things to do when you're a High xp Sorceror from Yu Shan!

- Raise your Essence. Because "Elder Essence lets me do whatever I want" is what most high Essence charms boil down to. Motes are good, too.

- Get ranks in Ride. Your backstory will thank you. Specialties are optional, though I'd suggest that Sorcerors like secrets.

- Remember that (absent hax) combat Sorcery isn't very useful. Pick an alternate method for destroying obstacles.

- Become familiar with all the types of Elementals and Demons there are. Bind them to your service. Pokeballs are de rigeur.

- Abuse artefacts. And hearthstones. At 3xp per dot (or just arbitrary amounts of unlimited time), this has potential. For 1bp, you can also exploit Grace Magic, which is a plus.

- Since you're planning on facing off against a void powered omnicidal technomaniac, look up Holy, Gremlin, and mindwarping effects.

- Hire a Raksha or two, but that's really pushing it. They can make combat sorcery viable, among other fun things.


Warping Vats of the Lord of Bats

The Lord of Bats is a remarkably powerful Raksha, whom some suspect might even be an Emanation that has somehow broken free from its original Unshaped. Others claim that it is a twisted reflection of the Emissary of Nexus - or its creator.

When the Lord of Bats chooses a city to protect, that city grows somehow taller and more shadowy, while a man dressed like a bat wanders through its streets, hunting down criminals. But the Lord of Bats is not content with mundane thugs, and thus the city soon develops numerous Vats. Sprouting from nodes in the local essence patterns, these large open cylinders all sport easily accessible walkways and insufficient warning signs.

Should a suitably villaineous criminal come close to one of the Vats, the forces of serendipity will force him (or her) to fall within and seemingly die - only to emerge some time later, driven mad by the experience and endowed with frightful powers. Soon, it becomes obvious that the only thing that can restrain these superior criminals is a man dressed like a bat, and so the legend of the Lord of Bats spreads further.

2-dot Oneiromancy
Assumption of Dreams and Passion - the Vats are unspeakably dangerous and toxic.
Behemoth Forging Meditation - minor criminals falling into a Vat acquire a plethora of derangements, some aesthetic alterations, and then set forth to prey upon civilians with a huge smile.
Swarm Transformation - only the Vats tended to personally by the Lord of Bats have this effect: more interesting unfortunates are utterly transformed, typically in a random and destructive manner. Some few survive, becoming things beyond the nightmares of the Neverborn.
Untouchable Performer Technique - the Vats are a pefectly normal part of the way things are, and there is no point in doing anything about them or, horror, covering them with anything more solid than thin paper disguised as a solid floor.
Mad God Mien - the transformations wrought by the Vats are too profound to be undone by sorcery.

Mechanics: Behemoth Forging Meditation does all the work, really. When you want to do something interesting, do the following:

- Have the Vat be attuned to a Raksha with Essence 7 (or 9 if attuned to a non-Raksha, non-Lunar, non-Sidereal Exalt).
- Throw a Solar into the Vat.
- Throw an Abyssal into the Vat.
- Repeat as long as either has an anti-shaping Charm up.
- Grant both your vict... assistants! the Hive Abomination. Twice.
- Your gracious helpers are now each one massive swarm of bugs.
- Merge the swarms. Hint: killing half the bugs but keeping both queens might work.
- End the transformation.
- Clean up the mess.
- Eventually, you will succeed! And you'll get 1 body, 2 minds, both Exalted.
- Since they are no longer undergoing any transformation or mutation, your new creation(s) is pretty much stuck that way.

This is, of course, rather cheesy, but it's a feasible approach. Since it involves beings with really high Essence, that makes it semi-legit at least. If you're in a hurry, it can (of course) be done by a starting level Raksha, but that's pretty much a default when you get that far.

Since it's all backstory for an NPC, I don't think it really matters to the OP anyway.

[TimeWizard]

The guy came here for help with character creation, and you've decided that the productive thing to do for him is to insult his ST's story-telling skills?

Thank You.