Sewing it on, gaining limbs.

[Mithril Leaf]

I've been wondering about this for a while. When things such as arms are mentioned in grafts, it sometimes explicitly says that it takes a limb being removed and sometimes doesn't. This for me would imply several things:
A) If it isn't called out at some point that it takes removing a limb, once could gain more limbs by grafting ones that don't specify.
B) Since this doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere besides the counter of it being used, there isn't any limit on adding limbs in such a method.
C) These added limbs function like they normally would if they replaces an existing limb, ie allowing wielding.
Since that would in and of itself be incredibly broken, would it be a reasonable limit to have the same max number of bonus limbs as the spell girallon's blessing? I may have just missed something, but fairly sure. Please and thank you for confirming or denying my suspicions.

[metabolicjosh]

Most extra limbs are either mechanical or demonic in nature.
Those are usually upgrades.

However Constructs can get extra part for money.

Either way i only no of one set of arms that could be 'added', with out removal of your natural ones, and those are evil ones.

[Tvtyrant]

Grafts cost money to add on, so I don't see why you would need to limit the number. You might be able to multiweapon fight with them, or TWF while using both weapons two handed (Dragonsplints), but it isn't earthshattering. There is a WBL limit involved, since you need weapons for each limb and you have to pay for each limb, and without using chained GMW you aren't going to be able to afford upgraded weapons for each hand.

[Mithril Leaf]

Grafts cost money to add on, so I don't see why you would need to limit the number. You might be able to multiweapon fight with them, or TWF while using both weapons two handed (Dragonsplints), but it isn't earthshattering. There is a WBL limit involved, since you need weapons for each limb and you have to pay for each limb, and without using chained GMW you aren't going to be able to afford upgraded weapons for each hand.

At level 20 a good character can purchase almost exactly 42 spare rending claws and replace them with arms of nym. They'd have a +84 bonus to str, dex, and AC from deflection. That's why I'd limit it. Those str and dex bonuses are untyped and work in AMFs by the way.

[Ravens_cry]

Just where do you put them all? RAW it likely doesn't matter, but I'm not a RAW junkie, I need some justification in-universe.

[Mithril Leaf]

Just where do you put them all? RAW it likely doesn't matter, but I'm not a RAW junkie, I need some justification in-universe.

That's why I was thinking the same normal limit as arms of Girallon. Directly above or below your normal limbs. You'd only be able to fit a couple that way, up to an extra two sets for a medium creature.

[Ravens_cry]

That's why I was thinking the same normal limit as arms of Girallon. Directly above or below your normal limbs. You'd only be able to fit a couple that way, up to an extra two sets for a medium creature.
That's still a nice untyped bonus, but not likely to be game breaking. :smallsmile:

[killianh]

I would assume that the limit would be the amount of body area to place them. but the Hecatonchires from ELH has 100 so :smallconfused:

Also I believe that each limb would end up with a weight to it, so moving might end up being impossible (not including the issue of trying to walk when even your arms have arms). A human arm weighs roughly 7 pounds IIRC though I suppose the extra strength would counter that at a point.

I would guess the best route would be to go by the rules for the despoiler of flesh from BoVD. It states that if the final form from the transformations is too abnormal the body simple turns to goo.

[Thomasinx]

At level 20 a good character can purchase almost exactly 42 spare clawed arms and replace them with arms of nym. They'd have a +84 bonus to str, dex, and AC from deflection. That's why I'd limit it. Those str and dex bonuses are untyped and work in AMFs by the way.

Pardon me, but what source are the arms of nym from? I have honestly never heard of it, nor can I find any reference anywhere...

[killianh]

Pardon me, but what source are the arms of nym from? I have honestly never heard of it, nor can I find any reference anywhere...

Sword and Fist has the Arm of Nym

[2xMachina]

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111009030059/onepiece/images/thumb/f/f3/Robin_Attack1.png/210px-Robin_Attack1.png

Like this girl?

No, that's not motion after-images. They are actual arms.


http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080827081554/onepiece/images/3/38/AngelRobin.png

No, that's not feathers, that are arms also.

[Ravens_cry]

How about this (http://www.spinnyverse.com/2010/02/09/20100209/) young lady?:smallsmile:

[Thomasinx]

Sword and Fist has the Arm of Nym

I just went through the whole book... Can't find it. Are you sure it's there? I've found a few references to it through google under the label 'Arm of Nym', but none of the sources (Sword and Fist, Defenders of the Faith) contain it.

Outside of exactly 3 things that come up on google for it, it's almost like it doesn't exist.

Does anyone have a page number for it? Was the name changed when it was updated to 3.5?

[limejuicepowder]

I think one could make an argument for having the arms come out of the character's back, like http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Appendage_Generation

I think 3 sets of arms on a character's back, 2 sets underneath the traditional arms, and another set coming out of the top of the shoulders. Oh and one more set http://yuyuhakusho.wikia.com/wiki/Yatsude

So that's 7 extra sets of arms in (sort of) reasonable locations. If you wanted to get ridicules though, arms coming out of arms would be the way to go. Having giants arm-arms like Dr Octopus would be pretty cool actually, for a non-serious or horror game.

[Mithril Leaf]

I just went through the whole book... Can't find it. Are you sure it's there? I've found a few references to it through google under the label 'Arm of Nym', but none of the sources (Sword and Fist, Defenders of the Faith) contain it.

Outside of exactly 3 things that come up on google for it, it's almost like it doesn't exist.

Does anyone have a page number for it? Was the name changed when it was updated to 3.5?

Page 26 of Defenders Of The Faith. It's fairly small.

[Dusk Eclipse]

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111009030059/onepiece/images/thumb/f/f3/Robin_Attack1.png/210px-Robin_Attack1.png

Like this girl?

No, that's not motion after-images. They are actual arms.


http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080827081554/onepiece/images/3/38/AngelRobin.png

No, that's not feathers, that are arms also.

I was thinking more of this

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BBsYOgmUxAQ/TWI8H7hvcII/AAAAAAAAAI8/Oml7lMRt2ZE/s1600/Demon_God_Asura_by_ZoroSan.jpg

[Curmudgeon]

At level 20 a good character can purchase almost exactly 42 spare clawed arms and replace them with arms of nym.
That doesn't seem possible by the RAW. Clawed Arm is a Fiendish graft (Fiend Folio, page 210). Normal Fiendish grafts are replacements, not additions.
Acquiring a Fiendish Graft
There are a number of ways to acquire a fiendish graft. Certain magical devices have been discovered that enfold a creature, remove one of its limbs, dealing 6d6 points of damage, and replace the limb with a fiendish graft ...

Even when a character gains a fiendish graft as a prestige class benefit, however, a fiendish entity typically bestows the graft at the climax of a dark ritual. Characters without such specific prestige classes can perform similar rituals in order to gain the benefits of a fiendish graft. The character cannot be of Good alignment after they receive a Fiendish Graft (level 4 class feature of a Fiend of Corruption; Fiend Folio, page 203):
Fiendish grafts are offered as rewards to characters who are already well along the path of corruption. From page 26 of Defenders of the Faith:
Arm of Nyr: This artificial arm made of mithral replaces an arm that has been lost by a good character. It will not function for a neutral character. An evil character who tries to attach it takes ld4 points of temporary Dexterity damage. You must be Good to accept the replacement: Neutral doesn't work, and Evil takes damage instead of receiving the graft when they make the attempt.

So you fail with even the first Arm, unless your DM plays fast and loose with the rules. There's no way this can repeat for 42 iterations.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Grafts count as items right? so a Hellbred (FC 2) would be able to get them as per theur Evil Execption ability.

[Mithril Leaf]

That doesn't seem possible by the RAW. Clawed Arm is a Fiendish graft (Fiend Folio, page 210). Normal Fiendish grafts are replacements, not additions. The character cannot be of Good alignment after they receive a Fiendish Graft (level 4 class feature of a Fiend of Corruption; Fiend Folio, page 203): From page 26 of Defenders of the Faith: You must be Good to accept the replacement: Neutral doesn't work, and Evil takes damage instead of receiving the graft when they make the attempt.

So you fail with even the first Arm, unless your DM plays fast and loose with the rules. There's no way this can repeat for 42 iterations.

Damn, I meant Rending Arm. They're the ones that don't specify being replacements when next to ones that do and aren't requiring evil acts. Perhaps a bit morally ambiguous, but less so then things like the malconvoker.

EDIT: Also, you're incorrect about falling for getting fiendish grafts, they explicitly give rules for good characters with them.

[Hyde]

What are my options for extra arms as a warforged, while we're on the subject? It seems like grafts might work RAW, but not really.

[Mithril Leaf]

What are my options for extra arms as a warforged, while we're on the subject? It seems like grafts might work RAW, but not really.

Half-golem grafts? Pretty sure those have some extra limbs.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

If you could extend the 1 minute/level and 10 minute/level long Extra Arms and Girallon's Blessing spells, (Lords of Madness, SpC) respectively, to >24 hours you could just magic in two extra pairs. Both spells are ~2-3rd level.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Multiple untyped bonuses from the same source (i.e. multiples of the same kind of arm graft) don't stack.


Flexible Arms are only 27k each, almost half the price of Clawed Arms.

Just buy an even number and cast Fuse Arms. Take Ability Enhancer from Dragon Compendium and it's +6 Str per pair instead of +4.

[Curmudgeon]

EDIT: Also, you're incorrect about falling for getting fiendish grafts, they explicitly give rules for good characters with them.
I believe you're mistaken. I wasn't referring to buying Fiendish replacement arm grafts; I was referring to the rules for gaining Fiendish grafts in addition to your normal limbs, which require you to be "already well along the path of corruption".

[Mithril Leaf]

I believe you're mistaken. I wasn't referring to buying Fiendish replacement arm grafts; I was referring to the rules for gaining Fiendish grafts in addition to your normal limbs, which require you to be "already well along the path of corruption".

I follow now. My original point still stands provided you use rending claws however. Editing the first post for that now.



Multiple untyped bonuses from the same source (i.e. multiples of the same kind of arm graft) don't stack.


Flexible Arms are only 27k each, almost half the price of Clawed Arms.

Just buy an even number and cast Fuse Arms. Take Ability Enhancer from Dragon Compendium and it's +6 Str per pair instead of +4.

Read my other post, I intended Rending Claws. They're only 5,000gp.

[Ravens_cry]

Another problem with the Arm of Myr is they are explicitly said to replace a lost limb, so using them as grafts to go all Doc Oct just doesn't work.

[Mithril Leaf]

Another problem with the Arm of Myr is they are explicitly said to replace a lost limb, so using them as grafts to go all Doc Oct just doesn't work.

Again, this is why you buy the cheap graft first. You need that limb to replace. Rending Claws are only 5 grand. Add the 12,800 gp to that, and you get my original number, just shy of 42 arms.

[Ravens_cry]

Again, this is why you buy the cheap graft first. You need that limb to replace. Rending Claws are only 5 grand. Add the 12,800 gp to that, and you get my original number, just shy of 42 arms.
Sorry, there is no way in hells bells in bodkin you could fit even 40 humanoid limbs on a humanoid body and have them be of any use to you for anything but being the world cartwheeling champion, if that.:smallyuk:
RAW, perhaps, may allow it, but not this DM.

[Mithril Leaf]

Sorry, there is no way in hells bells in bodkin you could fit even 40 humanoid limbs on a humanoid body and have them be of any use to you for anything but being the world cartwheeling champion, if that.:smallyuk:
RAW, perhaps, may allow it, but not this DM.

Also note that I personally suggested the same limits that Girallon's blessing permitted, perhaps more. I was pointing out the potential for abuse. Please read all of my posts and my point should become clear.

[Ravens_cry]

Also note that I personally suggested the same limits that Girallon's blessing permitted, perhaps more. I was pointing out the potential for abuse. Please read all of my posts and my point should become clear.
My point still stands that this is an abomination.:smallsmile:

[Mithril Leaf]

My point still stands that this is an abomination.:smallsmile:

A gloriously broken abomination. And it's my baby.