ring of feather falling.

[robertbevan]

let's say i'm a halfling, and my friend is a half-orc. we're falling to our deaths from a great great height. i'm wearing a ring of feather falling, but it's not working because my half-orc friend is holding on to me, and he's heavier than the maximum load i can carry.

crazy idea. i take the ring off, and put it on his finger. i'm well under the maximum weight that he can carry, so the ring takes effect... right?

does anyone see any problem with this?

[GodGoblin]

As long as you could do all that before you hit the ground I cant see any problem with it.

[robertbevan]

thanks, godgoblin!

[mattie_p]

As long as you could do all that before you hit the ground I cant see any problem with it.

Agreed. This will probably take two actions on the part of the halfling (manipulate an item (to remove the ring) = move action, manipulate an item (to hand the ring to the half orc) = move action) and two actions on the part of the half-orc, manipulate (get the ring) and manipulate (put it on), at which point it triggers. Can be done in one round, assuming proper sequencing of initiative.

[Curmudgeon]

Do note that a round (6 seconds) requires 500+' of falling distance. If you don't have that much you'll hit the ground before you can switch the ring.

[Downysole]

Don't forget to grab on tight before he puts the ring on. That's a lot of momentum to stop.

[DigoDragon]

Agreed. This will probably take two actions on the part of the halfling (manipulate an item (to remove the ring) = move action, manipulate an item (to hand the ring to the half orc) = move action) and two actions on the part of the half-orc, manipulate (get the ring) and manipulate (put it on), at which point it triggers. Can be done in one round, assuming proper sequencing of initiative.

Though I could see it ruled that (assuming the Orc is willing) the Halfling could use his second move action to put the ring directly on the Orc's finger instead of handing it to him. GM's call, but I'd allow it.

[Slipperychicken]

Halfling move action to remove Ring -> Free action pass to Orc -> Orc Move action to equip ring. As Curmudgeon said, you need 500ft prior to impact to do this.

Since the Ring is only CL1, the Feather Fall effect would only go for 60 more feet after the Halfling removes the ring. So this requires some very good timing.

[robertbevan]

Since the Ring is only CL1, the Feather Fall effect would only go for 60 more feet after the Halfling removes the ring. So this requires some very good timing.

that would be the case for a feather fall spell. but since it's a ring, and is usable more than once, wouldn't you just feather fall your 60 feet and then free fall another five feet before the ring kicks in again?

[Gandariel]

500 feet?
I'm assuming you are using an acceleration of G= 9.81m/s^2

Pick up a pencil or a candy or whatever, hold it in front of your eyes, drop it.
It should reach the floor in one second, more or less.

now physics would say that the pencil would travel for s = 1/2 gt^2, so in one second the pencil would fall for 4.5 meters, way more than what you just saw.

this is not meant to say physics is wrong, just don't take that G too seriously.

(sorry if i got you to break a pencil :P )

[Douglas]

It should reach the floor in one second, more or less.
Quite a bit less, actually. Judging by my watch, around half a second or even a little less than that.

So no, "taking that G seriously" is exactly what you should do.

[Andvare]

To be fair, G is in assumed vacuum. You will not get an acceleration of G (where G is dependant on the mass of the world you are on) in the atmosphere, and the acceleration will stop at some point.
But, yeah, you should definitely take G serious, Gandariel just failed to account for the air resistance (who apparently thinks that science is pure guesswork).

Sorry kitties, but your time was up.

[Whammydill]

I wonder where the memorial service for the cat-girls will be held?

Seriously, as stated, just get your GM's approval :D

Personally I'd make whoever was trying to hold on make a strength check to hold on to the feather falling character. If doing the ring swap trick id make them have to do a reflex save to grab the other in time. As for the falling distances in one round, I think its irrelevent. This is a game where arrows have no listed flight time so must arrive instantly. You fall at the speed of plot advancement.

[Gandariel]

Maybe i didn't explain myself properly.
G is correct, of course, but only for the vacuum.
The presence of air resistance (and other factors, like aerodynamics) heavily affect the result:
in fact a pen drops for two meters, more or less, in one second.

the only thing i was saying is that the law of acceleration is grossly inaccurate if you're not in a vacuum.

And yeah, i don't like catgirls :P

[airwolf]

In the name of Palor i ask you all to stop kill catgirls!


ok with that aside i see no problems why passing the ring would not work except if there is a time delay like 24 hours.

[Hyde]

I'd like to note that if the ring of feather-falling kicked in all at once it would be a lot of movement to actually arrest.

Basically, if the orc needs to make a check to hold on to the gnome, then someone's probably taking damage for the sudden deceleration. Of course, if the ring kicks in over time and slows you safely, there's always the risk of it not deploying fast enough, just like a parachute.

It would probably help if the orc flapped his arms like a chicken.

[MicHag]

the only thing i was saying is that the law of acceleration is grossly inaccurate if you're not in a vacuum.


Yes, guessing a pen falls to the ground in 1 second is much much more accurate and should be used instead.......

[Douglas]

Maybe i didn't explain myself properly.
G is correct, of course, but only for the vacuum.
The presence of air resistance (and other factors, like aerodynamics) heavily affect the result:
in fact a pen drops for two meters, more or less, in one second.
I have timed this, and no it does not take even close to one full second.


the only thing i was saying is that the law of acceleration is grossly inaccurate if you're not in a vacuum.
It is grossly inaccurate if you are not in a vacuum and moving at high speed. And by "high" I mean high enough that it takes hundreds of feet of falling distance to get that fast for anything with density, size, and aerodynamics at all close to a human body. You are vastly overestimating the effect of air resistance on typical falling objects.

[Gandariel]

I have timed this, and no it does not take even close to one full second.

Sorry then, it appears air is more resistive 'round my parts :P

when things are moving fast there are other issues (terminal speed) so yeah i guess we agree on this at least

[ericgrau]

Flying creatures fall at 300 feet per round but half that round 1, 150 feet. For everyone else, who knows by RAW. It's ~1000 feet per round but about half that in the first 6 seconds IRL, ~500 feet.

[legomaster00156]

Easier than all of this, shove the Half-Orc off of your body. He might even survive. :smallbiggrin:

[Slipperychicken]

that would be the case for a feather fall spell. but since it's a ring, and is usable more than once, wouldn't you just feather fall your 60 feet and then free fall another five feet before the ring kicks in again?

Problem is the Halfling took it off and handed it to the Half-Orc. Maybe if they could pass the ring every round, they could pull this off.

[Medic!]

Obviously what needs to happen is the half-orc needs to take advantage of the transitive property here.

Make the halfling grab his own ankles and wear him like a belt, then your halfling belt of featherfalling floats you down.

As a DM I would not only Rule 0 this, I would award bonus XP for the idea.

[nedz]

500 feet?
I'm assuming you are using an acceleration of G= 9.81m/s^2

Pick up a pencil or a candy or whatever, hold it in front of your eyes, drop it.
It should reach the floor in one second, more or less.

now physics would say that the pencil would travel for s = 1/2 gt^2, so in one second the pencil would fall for 4.5 meters, way more than what you just saw.

this is not meant to say physics is wrong, just don't take that G too seriously.

(sorry if i got you to break a pencil :P )

s = ut + 1/2 a t^2
u = 0, a = g
1/2 x 9.81 x 36 = 176.58 metres in 1 round
= 579' 4"

[AtlanteanTroll]

This all assumes a halfling's ring could fit on a half-orc's finger. :smalltongue:

[robertbevan]

Problem is the Halfling took it off and handed it to the Half-Orc. Maybe if they could pass the ring every round, they could pull this off.

why would they need to do this? half-orc puts on the ring and holds on to the halfling. they alternate between feather falling for sixty feet and free falling for five feet until they hit the ground safely. it would be a bumpy ride with those little five foot jumps, but with the answers i've gotten on this thread so far, i think the consensus is that it's plausible.


This all assumes a halfling's ring could fit on a half-orc's finger. :smalltongue:

magic rings will change their size to accommodate a different wearer.


thank you everyone.

[Curmudgeon]

s = ut + 1/2 a t^2
u = 0, a = g
1/2 x 9.81 x 36 = 176.58 metres in 1 round
= 579' 4"
Thanks. With air resistance figured in (mostly at higher speeds)

Drag force F = ½ Cd ρ v2 A
If you know what this means, I probably don't need to detail the terms. If you don't, it's not worth taking the time for an aerodynamics lesson; just note that the drag is a function of velocity squared (v2), so it's low for the first few seconds and starts to pick up as you approach terminal velocity at around 120 MPH/200 KPH. an ordinary human typically falls around 500' in 6 seconds.

[nedz]

Thanks. With air resistance figured in (mostly at higher speeds)

Drag force F = ½ Cd ρ v2 A
If you know what this means, I probably don't need to detail the terms. If you don't, it's not worth taking the time for an aerodynamics lesson; just note that the drag is a function of velocity squared (v2), so it's low for the first few seconds and starts to pick up as you approach terminal velocity at around 120 MPH/200 KPH. an ordinary human typically falls around 500' in 6 seconds.
Its all standard notation.
Its interesting to note that smaller creatures have a lower terminal velocity, and larger ones a higher terminal velocity. This isn't due to Drag directly, in fact it is counter intuitive from the above. Its because they experience more deceleration. Its a little complicated but basically m = f(size3); A = f(size2)

[Marnath]

why would they need to do this? half-orc puts on the ring and holds on to the halfling. they alternate between feather falling for sixty feet and free falling for five feet until they hit the ground safely. it would be a bumpy ride with those little five foot jumps, but with the answers i've gotten on this thread so far, i think the consensus is that it's plausible.

thank you everyone.

Technically the ring works like the spell, my reading of it is that it activates when you drop 5 feet and ends when you land. The spell ends when the duration expires, but with an unlimited amount of use, can it really ever be said to expire?

[robertbevan]

Technically the ring works like the spell, my reading of it is that it activates when you drop 5 feet and ends when you land. The spell ends when the duration expires, but with an unlimited amount of use, can it really ever be said to expire?

i'm not sure i understand your argument here, and i don't know what conclusion you're drawing from it.

[DarkestKnight]

I think you guys might be overlooking something Airwolf mentioned earlier.


ok with that aside i see no problems why passing the ring would not work except if there is a time delay like 24 hours.

Some magic items must be worn for 24 hours before you can gain the magical benefits. So before worrying if you have enough time to swap rings, you should see if the DM says you have to wear it for a day before you can gain the benefit.

[theUnearther]

The conclusion Marnath is drawing is that you would not experience the 60ft 5ft 60ft "bounciness", as the ring seems to be unlimited in use and thus would work continuously across your full fall. Reading the item and the spell on the SRD, I have no idea.

And it also says nothing about having to wear it for 24 hours. Those delays are typically for items that give you imitation of class features, specially class features with uses per day, such that you cannot take it off and put it on to "refresh" your uses for the day.

[DarkestKnight]

Fair enough about the delay period, I just felt that it got passed over and could be a roadblock depending on the DM.

About the 'bouncing' speed of falling, wouldn't the falling while under the effect trigger the ring, effectively making it a continuous effect until landing?

[Slipperychicken]

About the 'bouncing' speed of falling, wouldn't the falling while under the effect trigger the ring, effectively making it a continuous effect until landing?

That seems like the most rational way of ruling it, and I would add that each time the ring is triggered on the same person, it overrides the previous casting. So you aren't falling with 12 CL1 Transmutation effects on you; that would just look silly under Detect Magic. :smalltongue:

[TopCheese]

Obviously what needs to happen is the half-orc needs to take advantage of the transitive property here.

Make the halfling grab his own ankles and wear him like a belt, then your halfling belt of featherfalling floats you down.

As a DM I would not only Rule 0 this, I would award bonus XP for the idea.

Wait no one is touching this?? Seriously? You guys want to argue physics when this one here won the thread?

Get y'all priorities straight damn it!!!

[Andvare]

Wait no one is touching this?? Seriously? You guys want to argue physics when this one here won the thread?

Get y'all priorities straight damn it!!!

While no one can deny the fun that is a halfling belt. With physics you get to kill catgirls.

[Fitz10019]

Wait no one is touching this?? Seriously? You guys want to argue physics when this one here won the thread?

Get y'all priorities straight damn it!!!

Saying you would reward XP for your own idea is a no-no. Other people have to say that. It's like "LOL"ing your own post. "LOL" is supposed to be a reaction to other people's ideas.

-------------------

I would rule that, with a DC 10 Bluff check, the Halfing can hand the Half-orc any ring, and the Half-orc will be sufficiently distracted for the Halfling to break free and float down with his ring of featherfall. He can retrieve the other ring later.

[TopCheese]

Saying you would reward XP for your own idea is a no-no. Other people have to say that. It's like "LOL"ing your own post. "LOL" is supposed to be a reaction to other people's ideas.

-------------------

I would rule that, with a DC 10 Bluff check, the Halfing can hand the Half-orc any ring, and the Half-orc will be sufficiently distracted for the Halfling to break free and float down with his ring of featherfall. He can retrieve the other ring later.

I think the point is that if a player ever did something crazy like that then the XP would be awarded.

It isn't like LOL at your own post. I tend to give new players examples of what can give them bonus XP ... Which is usually examples of really cool things I did or friends have done. If you don't give examples to people then how would they know they can get bonus XP for being .. Creative...

[Roguenewb]

Do note that a round (6 seconds) requires 500+' of falling distance. If you don't have that much you'll hit the ground before you can switch the ring.

Not true at all. A creature falls 150 feet in the first round, and 300 feet in each subsequent round. Welcome to D&D, where reality means nothing!

[Curmudgeon]

Not true at all. A creature falls 150 feet in the first round, and 300 feet in each subsequent round. Welcome to D&D, where reality means nothing!
You're confusing two different rules. A winged creature falls 150' in the first round, and 300' each round thereafter. Having huge wings, even when they're not flapping properly for flight, creates considerable extra drag and reduces terminal velocity appreciably.

Non-winged creatures follow the rules of ordinary physics when falling (see Dungeon Master's Guide on page 136).

[olentu]

You're confusing two different rules. A winged creature falls 150' in the first round, and 300' each round thereafter. Having huge wings, even when they're not flapping properly for flight, creates considerable extra drag and reduces terminal velocity appreciably.

Non-winged creatures follow the rules of ordinary physics when falling (see Dungeon Master's Guide on page 136).

i don't see anything about falling speed on page 136 except for that bit about falling off the edge of the world. Would you mind pointing it out.

[Curmudgeon]

i don't see anything about falling speed on page 136 except for that bit about falling off the edge of the world. Would you mind pointing it out.

This section on world-building assumes that your campaign is set in a fairly realistic world. That is to say that while wizards cast spells, deities channel power to clerics, and dragons raze villages, the world is round, the laws of physics are applicable, and most people act like real people. The reason for this assumption is that unless they are told otherwise, this situation is what your players expect. Falling people (without wings) follow the usual laws of physics.

[olentu]

Falling people (without wings) follow the usual laws of physics.

Only while the DM is using one of the sections under world building (as that is the only place where those assumptions apply). Perhaps there is something in the world building section that applies to adjudicating a pair of adventurers falling out of the sky but if there is it is not very evident. So if you would not mind pointing me to the correct section.

[Medic!]

Sometimes when I'm feeling down...I come here to see what kind of amazingly pointed and rediculous things people will argue over.

It makes mah day. :smallbiggrin:

[Medic!]

Sometimes when I'm feeling down...I come here to see what kind of amazingly pointed and rediculous things people will argue over.

It makes mah day. :smallbiggrin:

LOL


:smallcool:

[TopCheese]

LOL


:smallcool:

Ha! I see what you did there.

The first 1/4 of my day has been made!

[DigoDragon]

In the name of Palor i ask you all to stop kill catgirls!

To be fair, since this is D&D, death is merely an inconvinience. The catgirls will be fine in a few rounds. :smallbiggrin:



Easier than all of this, shove the Half-Orc off of your body. He might even survive.

How does that "Murphy's Law" go?
In 2e, a 10th level fighter can survive a fall from any height?

Thinking about it, one could craft a higher level ring so as to be able to affect multiple people without need to switch the ring's position mid-fall.