Binder Melee?

[silverwolfer]

*Last Question of the weekend I promise*

Was doing some exploring (( I have looked at the handbook))

I am curious, on what folks thoughts are for feats for a melee binder. Do you see yourself doing the dexterity route, or just grab the largest two handed club and get power attack.

[TopCheese]

I just grabed a rapier and stuck with Paimon (sp), about the only feat you need isn't twf but the Shadow Blade feat that gives dex to damage when you are in a shadow blade stance... Which will be always.

I'm in the process of making a Binder/Crusader Multiclass character, sadly crusader doesn't get shadow hand....

[Psyren]

Binders are extremely good at melee. Not only do they get melee-friendly vestiges and the right martial proficiencies (from KotSS) without losing binding progression, supernatural abilities also don't provoke - letting you spam anything you want to in melee range without penalty.

I would go with a charging build, which would typically use Chupoclops (level 10 with Imp. Binding) for his Pounce. You should have 8 BAB at this point from Binder and KotSS levels. Haures combines best with this, allowing you to ignore difficult terrain and charge through fodder to reach the juicy casters behind. Chupoclops also gives you a bite that you can throw onto the end of your full-attack routine. The feats you would pick are pretty standard - Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Imp. Bull Rush, Leap Attack etc.

For a sneaky build, you can stack Paimon's nice dex bonus + free weapon finesse with Andromalius' sneak attack. Agares gives you a sweet flanking buddy that scales with your level and glides behind your targets, but if the party can handle that role then feel free to skip. You can get additional sneak attack from a rogue dip and/or Martial Study+Stance.

You can also go with a tank build; unlike normal fighters, you don't have to focus so much on battlefield control as a means of defending your allies. You can actually go with a much more traditional sword/shield setup, because if the monsters slip past you, Savnok lets you reposition right to where your allies are. Dahlver-Nar gives you a ton of natural armor and lets you split any damage you take with other party members or summons (or even the enemy, if your Cha is decent.) Throw in Buer for even more survivability.

[GenghisDon]

I've kinda wondered the same as the OP does, myself.

The standard charger...ok.

The rest, I'm still no clearer. Perhaps one can get away with whatever they like, so long as the right visages are bound. melee without much traditional melee feats?

Perhaps Binders really don't ned the optimisation other classes do? Their versatility is very cool. Just focus on binder type feats & general purpose stuff?

[Psyren]

Binders can do just about anything, but the feats you pick determine what they are truly good at. For instance, picking the charging feats I've listed above won't make you a good tripper or crafter.

They absolutely need optimization to be effective. You have limited ability to change your role day by day but you really want to focus on one direction. The reason they're called the 5th-man is because you should ideally be looking at the party to see what they're missing and tailor your feats/vestiges to fill that gap.

It IS possible to be a "generalist" binder though.

[CalistonTB]

Currently playing a Rogue1/Fighter1/Binder13/Knight of the Sacred Seal5. Feats are all down the TWF tree with Able Learner. Standard Dex sneak attack feat progression (WF, TWF, Martial Man., Martial Stance, Shadow Blade, Imp TWF, etc). Patron is Paimon, also bind Andromalius and either Kas or Chupoclops depending on if enemy is undead or not. Pump up Dex via items and tomes, and proceed to blenderize bad guys. On a full round against a low AC monster 450-500 damage is common.

However, the real benefit I've found in making a sneak attacker this is way is that you aren't gimped completely if the party is doing something besides stabbing things. Today we're tryin to fool the king into giving up his secrets? Naberius. Gotta do some scouting? Malphas. The flexibility gained makes for a more fun to play character than the typical rogue-y glass cannon.

[ThiagoMartell]

Dulcinea, Dancer's Daughter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9321125&postcount=154) is one of my favorite melee binder builds.

[silverwolfer]

uhhhgg if could have a melee version of anima mage

[limejuicepowder]

uhhhgg if could have a melee version of anima mage

Well you could, with a slight amount of work. I'm pretty sure Anima Mage's description includes the possibility to make it divine instead of arcane - even if there isn't a reference, it would a completely reasonable change to make. Once you have cleric spells, who cares what your BaB is? Divine Might says it's equal to caster level. A basic binder 1/cleric 3/anima mage 10/(whatever) 6 would be a pretty rockin' build, with almost limitless customization on a day to day basis.

[Psyren]

uhhhgg if could have a melee version of anima mage

You can, quite easily. Use the Anima Priest adaptation to turn it divine (ToM 53), and use its 3/day Vestige Metamagic ability to persist Divine Power and two more of your favorite buffs. You can even throw in Tenebrous Apostate to hit max-level spells and vestiges, as well as gain unlimited TU attempts to fuel your DMM. Now you have 9th-level spells, heavy armor, and fighter BAB.

(above ninja'd by limejuice)

You can even go psionic; Binder/Ardent/Anima Psion/KotSS binding all three psionic vestiges will get you 16 BAB, more PP than a Psywar and proficiency with all exotic weapons. To top it off, your "powers" will be supernatural and thus impossible to dispel, plus you can manifest in melee without provoking. Gorn gives you a heft damage boost when combined with Knowledge Devotion, and Abysm's Astral Construct gives you a highly-adaptable flanking buddy.

[silverwolfer]

right now am sort of looking at barbarian/binder with panimon

[Bloodgruve]

Totemist2 could be a fun one to add onto Binder. Get a ton of natural attacks along with even more daily options and flexibility. If homebrew is open Midnight Occultist (http://forum.faxcelestis.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22) could be very fun.

Blood~

[TopCheese]

Totemist2 could be a fun one to add onto Binder. Get a ton of natural attacks along with even more daily options and flexibility. If homebrew is open Midnight Occultist (http://forum.faxcelestis.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22) could be very fun.

Blood~

I made a semi optimized binder/totemist and it.. Wow was it crazy... I actually killed the character off cause it could do really anything I wanted to.. It was fun but in a game of Tier 4 5ier 3 is was a bit much..