Stealth/Sneak Attack [PF]

[Valdras]

Hey Guys,

Stupid Question, but can you sneak attack with spells?

I assume if you have a Magus/Rogue it would just be spell striking as a sneak attack with shocking grasp (lol) but I was wondering if Sorcerers or Wizards that have a bit of Rogue in them get some sneak attack love at all..

I'm assuming grarrrg will know :P

[Eugenides]

I think you can use rays. If not, Spellwarp Sniper in Complete Scoundrel is your PrC.

[Jasdoif]

Yes. The relevant section is in Complete Arcane, page 86.

It's easier to look at (and quote) the very similar section in a Rules of the Game article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040309a), though:


Any spell that requires an attack roll and deals damage can be used in a sneak attack. In this case "damage" is normal damage, nonlethal damage, ability damage, or energy drain. You can sneak attack with a Melf's acid arrow spell, but not with a magic missile spell.

Ranged spells are effective as sneak attacks only at ranges of 30 feet or less (just like any other ranged sneak attack).

A successful sneak attack with a weaponlike spell inflicts extra damage according to the attacker's sneak attack ability, and the extra damage dealt is the same type as the spell deals. For example, a 10th-level rogue who makes a successful sneak attack with a Melf's acid arrow spell inflicts 2d4 points of acid damage, plus an extra 5d6 points of acid damage from the sneak attack (note that continuing damage from this spell is not part of the sneak attack). Spells that inflict energy drains or ability damage deal extra negative energy damage in a sneak attack, not extra negative levels or ability damage. For example, a 10th-level rogue who makes a successful sneak attack with an enervation spell deals 1d4 negative levels plus an extra 5d6 points of negative energy damage.

If the sneak attack with a weaponlike spell results in a critical hit, the damage from the spell is doubled but the extra sneak attack damage is not doubled (as with any sneak attack).

With spell effects that allow you to make multiple attack rolls, such as the energy orb spells or the Split Ray feat from Tome and Blood, you must treat the effect like a volley -- only the first attack can be a sneak attack.

[Valdras]

Does that work in Pathfinder too? Just realized I completely forgot to add the [PF] tag at the top, so I added it in ::smallredface:

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

yes, it works in PF.

[Slipperychicken]

I assume if you have a Magus/Rogue it would just be spell striking as a sneak attack with shocking grasp (lol) but I was wondering if Sorcerers or Wizards that have a bit of Rogue in them get some sneak attack love at all..

I'm assuming grarrrg will know :P

They do, but the first rule of optimization still applies in Pathfinder: Thou Shalt Not Lose Caster Levels.

If you're rocking the 1d4/level or 1d6/level damage spells (like Shocking Grasp), caster levels are always going to add more damage than Rogue levels. Magus levels will add one die every level (plus you don't need to jump through hoops to get your SA off, just cast the spell), among other awesome benefits like your spellcasting progression. Rogue levels will only give you a situational die every three levels.

[grarrrg]

I believe this is the entire point behind the Arcane Trickster PrC.

If that is also your plan, then for optimal results, enter the class with 4 levels of [caster], 1 level of [rogue], and 1 level of [applicable PrC].

[caster] can be any of Bard, Magus, Summoner, Sorcerer, or Wizard.
[rogue] can be any of Alchemist (Vivisectionist), Ninja or Rogue.
[applicable PrC] can be any of Assassin, Inner Sea Pirate, Master Spy, or Red Mantis Assassin. Due to PrC reqs, your best bets are Assassin or Inner Sea Pirate.

[ericgrau]

I never thought of doing it with a shocking grasp flank. Sounds like an interesting idea but dangerous with so little armor and HP.

Generally these builds use a magical sneak attack trigger like glitterdust, blink or greater invisibility. In 3.5 they also used grease, but it's less reliable in PF. Then they'd use a ranged attack. Even though you get less attacks they are touch attacks so they hit more often and you get to add spell damage too. Plus at high levels you use quicken spell for a 2nd attack. Even a quickened cantrip, because 1d3+3d6 is significant.

Empowered shocking grasp sounds like a good backup against fire resistant foes and if you're using the standard build then your other sneak attack triggers also double as defenses so getting close isn't as dangerous.